I've heard another creator say he viewed it in light mode because he wanted to see the platform as most of the userbase sees it. Honestly don't know how meaningful this is, as while I'm sure most users do watch in light mode, a large % have to just be watching sports highlights and Mr Beast videos.
@@sinwithagrin4243 It's not a black sheep however, we saw how far this studio had gone with their "The Walking Dead" game but sadly a lot of people just chopped it up to being a branded game. In reality it's not that, people are given free will with that franchise, Telltale showed us that. It was just a bit of cope that the studio we once loved has truly lost their touch.
Almir and Andreas taking over as game directors is still a huge win for Payday 3. They have been with the Payday franchise for a very long time and are connected with the community, especially Almir. I'm hoping for good things.
Correct me if I'm wrong, since I haven't really kept up with the news since release's fiasco, but Andreas, during the first live streams when people were upset about the game's state, gave me the impression he knew the game was being mismanaged and pretty much agreed with most criticism. Don't quote me, but he seems to know what he's doing.
I would like to mention, that apparently Mio scoffed at the notion that anyone would want to play Payday 2 again. I think that says it all, in regards to the game’s philosophy for loud gameplay. If we check the playercounts, people are still preferring Payday 2, by a ratio of at least 10:1, for its loud gameplay.
Literally the only thing I could think of while playing Payday 3 during the hour fourty five ish that I played it was that I would just rather be playing Payday 2. Some of the stealth changes were cool, but so much of the fun silliness was gutted and the online-only nature of the game made it just feel like a completely different game, like I was playing Call of Duty: The Heist or something. It was just kinda...boring. Shame, since Payday 2 is still one of my favorite games on steam and I was quite looking forward to the sequel.
As much as I agree payday 3 shouldn't be a 2 remaster I do think right now it should take some lessons from payday 2... Scoffing at the mere motion of adding some of 2 into 3
> makes bad decisions for the game > content creators tell them these are bad decisions > refuse the feedback, act as if the content creators are mean for the sake of it > community ends up hating the bad changes > surprised pikachu face Where did the whole don't shoot the messenger thing go?
I really admire and respect you as a creator for talking about these sorts of things. I bought PD3 on release and genuinely felt miserable during the first few months of the game; getting home from school to see whether or not the servers are *finally* working, not having the expansive and creative preplanning PD2 had and feeling forced to play a heist how the game wanted us to, and the lack of actual variation in the heists, loadouts and skills. I quit around a month before the legacy heist update and only mustered up the motivation to try it out once before ultimately uninstalling and finding other games that didn't feel as lifeless as PD3. It hurt because I've been a fan of the Payday series since 2015, and always looked forward to the next heist or weapon. They dropped the ball on PD3 and while this isn't directly Mio's fault or anyone else's for that matter, it does really suck and I still make sure to keep myself updated through your content. Talking about everything related to PD3 can get tiring and I really respect your determination and love for this game. It doesn't feel superficial like most things online these days and I do genuinely look forward to seeing where Almir and Andreas are going with PD3 now, and obviously your content as the game enters its second year. Good luck Payday gang! 💪💪
Im not gonna lie man i struggled through the first heist both through lag, connection falling through and everything else and i had to stop. I just couldn't do it so i have a lot of respect for you for sticking to it
Tbh, yea I feel the same way. Taking diamond district & diamond store as example, dismond district is almost the same everytime, doors, code locations, everything. Meanwhile, diamond store have rng on door spawn with the security room. Heck, even classic bank heist on 2 have 2 different vault door positions which requires different approaches. The variation is lacking, and I don’t like it…it gives too little challenge, becomes mundane really fast since you do the same thing everytime, just like nrftw…
I don't think the real issue is the "restriction" of the game wanting you to play how it wanted to. The reality is that restrictions need to be well-placed and balanced with freedom in the right areas. PAYDAY 3's real issue with restrictions is that it doesn't have anything to offer within its framework. Low variation, low emergent gameplay, repetition of something inherently lacking in depth. Honestly, PAYDAY 3 is just a bad game and I think it failed in almost all its goals.
An absolutely excellent recounting of the last month or so's events (and beyond) - and I say that objectively. More personally, I appreciate hearing you discuss the events I found myself placed into in the way you have, too. Your support both privately and publicly meant a lot to me, and I'm lucky to call you a friend ❤
Mio is a massive failure, the first months of Payday 3 reflect that but more importantly, the way he took criticism from the content creators shows he does not have the mindset to be in charge of a project and his response to the community and content creators along with his partner simply put the last nail in the coffin. He should not have been game lead and the game undoubtedly suffered for it.
i don't think "which drama?" i think "oh god what has payday 3 done now? please tell me it's good finally" like some sort of sadist i'm still hoping 3 bounces back despite it being shit
I wish they would scrap the entire skill system and start from scratch. The EDGE, GRIT, and RUSH system is a bit boring, in my opinion. My rifles class and my shotgun class are nearly identical. I use silencers on every gun to benefit from the assassin skill line. This makes any other muzzle useless in my eyes. Making customization limited as well. It's a lot to ask. But temporary damage buffs and faster lock picking is the peak of this skill system. That's why people are outraged about the Ammo Funnel change. This game is already insanely limited.
What I'm wondering is why didn't they choose Almir or Andreas from the very start? Why Mio? It makes sense to pick individuals who are familiar with the game, interact with players, and even know the insides and outs of what's going on in the community (social media and game)
I am guessing that almir and andreas just wanted to step away and let a fresh pair of eyes look into payday 3. They didn't want to influence things in any way
@@sssawfish Understandable, but wouldn't it make sense to assign people to what they're good at or has more experience at a specific area of Payday? Edit: I'm assuming both Andreas and Almir are quite knowledgeable at designing especially since Almir was involved with the Jacket DLC in Payday 2
Been playing since 2012 on PDTH and have been with the journey for a long time. PAYDAY 2 was there for me during a lot of developmental times in HS and college, and was my fallback when things were rough. It's sad to know that PAYDAY 3 is nowhere near as fun even as I still play it, but I still try to keep it close to my heart. There's so much that's amazing about it, but so much left it needs to help it. It hurts and I'm getting tired. I just want the pain to end and for PAYDAY 3 to be amazing. I'm still here, still trying. I'll still be here playing PAYDAY until the very end, either way, because I have hope. I just want there to be something about the game that can tell me that my hope isn't misplaced, and that's why I'm still here. For the game, for the ARGs, for the memes, and for everything it has been for me.
@@ShinyLightzInTheSky Feels like the first year of PAYDAY 2 where them continuously adding heists kept making it feel a little better more and more, then doing something huge like the Big Bank. Maybe we need something like that. It already feels like they're lagging behind comparatively, but like I said I'm not going anywhere.
@@cyrushimz I’m feeling the same way. I really think that if we, as a community, did give them a bit more time to polish some things up that payday three could be a better game than payday to ever was. Sorry if this message makes little sense I’m using my phones voice chat thing
@@ShinyLightzInTheSkythat’s not how this works, you don’t get to release a game that barely works / is terrible for a year and then just get given the benefit of the doubt
Mio is completely living in their own world in regards to the reality of the payday 2-3 situation. It’s not realistic the way they handled the first year. Andreas and Almir being the creative leads makes the most sense, they’ve been on this franchise for almost the entirety of its mainstream appeal.
I think Ammo Funnel getting nerfed would have been totally fine per the community if it wasn't the *only interesting skill in the game.* Looking at Payday 2, there were tons of skills and perks that added new mechanics and funamentally changed how the game played- Inspire, Graze, Anarchist, the Dodge vs Armor dichotomy, the sheer variety of ways you could play Payday 2 was one of the biggest draws that kept me coming back. Payday 3 only really has one way to play it.
Yeah I miss late skill tree unlocks like the Saw and Super armor, Mastermind being able to convert cops and create a small squad of extra. PD3 has none of that.
Im one of those guys that kind of liked how PD3 was starting out (in spite of the launch issues). I can see the vision so clearly, how they want to differentiate it from PD2's horde-style shoot up style and go for a more grounded, "Heat" style battle of attrition, scrapping by the skin of your teeth, fighting for every dollar bill you can. But i think you made a good point that, in the end, the game needs to sustain itself to work, and that new, different vision for the game doesnt look like it's what a majority of players ultimately want from the game. For better or worse, it seems like people really just want PD2 with updated graphics. I dont blame them, id like that to, but fumbling right out the gate did not make the different style of gameplay sit well with most people, and honestly players dont teally have a reason to believe that itll work out
Basically you cannot change a game's popular stykle when you are just making a sequel to a game. Changes is style need to be new IPs or at least a subtitle change. Like Xcom:Chimera Squad for when they wanted to change how it all went. They made sure to not make that Xcom 3
you have a formula that you have been perfecting for over a decade and has a huge player base and you throw it in the garbage to release pd3 as it is and cry publicly why no one is playing it... i play pd2 cuz i love everyting in pd2 and am sad cuz they cut off updates for it but point is if you want to experiment with new formula, build a new ip, don't ruin an existing one
As someone who barely uses social media, I had no idea the ammo funnel drama was even going on until it was over. I wish Mio the best, and Almir and Andreas good luck with the game.
at some point this will become reality, licenses dont last forever and neither will a live service game. DBD is a live service game so pd2 will still be here and playable long after that is gone assuming they dont make it playable without servers.
All I want is for them to make an actual launch version of the game, and to achieve that they're going to have to remove the always online elements at a minimum, and hopefully make the multiplayer playable through a P2P(Peer-to-Peer) system. And it would actually have been good for them to implement those things, because as year 1 is rounding up, and with it I imagine most contractual obligations for Deep Silver to keep the game rolling...
P2P? You want us to pay monthy subscriptions to play payday 3 online? You need to be a bit specific here because it appears to me that you are suggesting that Payday 3 go an MMORPG route
@@muchluck7981 P2P generally means peer to peer not pay to play which is what I'm assuming you think it means. Complete oversimplification but it's basically where all the players connect to eachother rather than a server.
That announcement today did a number and I wonder whether that alone already brings a couple people back to just see what year 2 has to offer. Sure it's a shame that another "leader" had to move on but even I myself struggled real bad to actually be "a fan" of Mio. I purely followed him on Twitter since he shared some PD3 related news there but after a while I just had to unfollow him there... just not my kind of sauce. I'm glad you touched the guard buff a bit as well. I don't mind the change, it's weird how the civs didn't get the same treatment though but regardless, I think that alone would've deserved its own little spotlight just like Ammo Funnel did since it did cause quite a bit of change for PD3 stealthing as a whole.
Genuinely, all this stuff with Mio reminds me of the old "Days Gone" director. Blaming and directly antagonizing your player base and content creators only creates resentment. Telling your players that they don't know what's best for the game, even if you're right, is a bad look. Especially when the game is already struggling. You're pretty much giving them even more reasons not to play your game.
You're totally right, but to be fair to mio literally everything from the partners has been negative and that has to take a toll at some point. Hell, I'm just a fan and the constant negativity surrounding the game has caused me to unsubscribe from most of the payday partners since it's just not the content I want to consume, so I can only imagine people at starbreeze are tilted as hell.
I'm a pretty casual Payday player that primarily hops into Payday 2 on and off, your content on updates, fun gameplay ideas, and so on have always been amazing and your willingness to put your opinion and thoughts out on changes happening to the current Payday 3 have also been enjoyable. I hope no one is giving you any flak over any of these past "drama's" because you've always wanted the games to be as best as they could be, hell if it weren't for your videos on Payday 2 I may not have even gotten the drive to go back to it and give it a second go after being gone for many years. Keep doing what you do even if there is a minority that accuse you of abusing your power as a partner or some other bs.
This far into the game's lifecycle you've gotta accept that the only people watching this content are those invested in the game; acting as though creators are able to so heavily influence that audience is just not a reality. All someone does by not giving their honest opinions at this point is harm their own credibility and reputation, say a disenfranchised player comes back to the game off your content and finds it still the same mess it always was, do you think they're suddenly going to stick around because the UA-cam man said the game is good now? Of course not, they're going to stop playing and resent him. I always hate these arguments that negative content is somehow the REAL issue and if everyone just shut their mouths then suddenly everything would turn out fine, it's just an attempt to stop people who disagree with you from voicing their opinions. This isn't the first game it's happened to and god knows it won't be the last.
I am dismissing the other side of the ammo funnel nerf argument, because this form of balancing is THE WORST way to balance a game Nerfing all the best stuff so everything in the full game is total trash as opposed to making everything good is horrible and NEVER works
But ammo funnel is objectively the strongest and most necessary skill in PD3, which is exactly what they were intending to avoid with the new skill system (which is why skills like inspire aren't in the game, since they were so powerful they needed to be forced into every build). Nerfing things is by no means a bad thing, especially when it is such an outlier in strength.
A talented designer who took everything from the call of duty? When did stealing ideas become a talent? If you can't accept criticism and stay with your opinion, get off the stage. If you don't listen to your community, get off the stage. You don't know what the 2nd part of the game was like, I didn't realize in a year that the style of the 3rd part is not liked by the players - be kind, never touch the gaming industry again. Nothing personal, just facts.
I don't think a payday 2 clone would be a bad thing. I think what everyone invested in the series really just wanted was just payday 2, with better visuals, better feel, and a new story. Also drills were better than circles by a long shot, just gotta put that out there because it's just that bad. At least we were able to move around during our old waiting simulator.
@@ShinyLightzInTheSkyseeing the popularity pd2 had on PC, even towards the end, console players would have probably also loved it if it was playable and in an actually good engine
@@Dr.Oofersno features (by features I don’t mean anything in menu I mean completely in the actual game like closing doors and unmasked tasks) of payday 3
@@zjanez2868yeah it is absolutely fucking unplayable i WANT to love payday 2 but A; I hate the detection system B; Without the mechanics of payday 3 and playing payday 3 first it is hard for me to play it. I WANT TO CLOSE DOORS CARRY TWO BAGS HAVE RUSH AND BE ABLE TO DO THAT SHIT WITHOUT PUTTING ON MY MADK
VoIP will be such a welcomed addition, since most players tend to just break stealth and quit instead of trying to start a party on console or work together
just want stealth and loud filters, thats all, idk why thats so ahrd to ask for but thius would make the game 10 time smore playable for me. its not enjoyable to fnd a new game every 2 minutes because nobody wants to go loud
The thing I don't get regarding the whole hangup about Payday 3 being a "Payday 2 Clone" is that Payday 2's fundamentals are still fresh. It's still incredibly fun. A sizeable crowd wants a Payday 2 clone for a reason, and furthermore it would SELL. LIKE. BREAD. Payday 2's formula with a shiny new engine, a better-told story, and brand new heists that take full advantage of that engine for crazy things? That's money. I also understand what they were trying to do, a take on the series that is more grounded and gritty... but that's just clearly not what the community wanted. Maybe we wait until the wheel is broken before we try and reinvent it, you know?
@@Kero-zc5tc no fallacy intended; no need to keyboard warrior. All I’m saying is I don’t think they need to go to old ways; especially when old ways were 50% for some. I just want them to add more content since the game is already fun.
@@ShinyLightzInTheSky if they releasyed payday 3 as a simple continuation of 2 with new systems to modernize it it would have been a success. yeah console experience was objectively worse but that's the whole point of a sequel, to be better than the previous. I don't know why they decided to take on this direction but people obviously aren't a fan. beyond the bugs and lack of content the game is simply less fun and engaging than a 10 year old game which IMO is simply unacceptable especially when the creators are the same company.
@@ShinyLightzInTheSkythey weren't referencing how payday 2 was handled, they were referencing how it functioned. a blind person could see the game was handled like shit until late into its lifetime. how it functions though, is great. with their knowledge on how they messed up in handling it, it the third was just a rehash of the same old game mechanics, i think they'd be able to handle it pretty well.
17x more people watched this video 3 hours after it released than played payday 3 in the last 24 hours. While the larger payday fan base is still somewhat there the game itself is a shambling corpse, I don’t think it can be saved
@@ShinyLightzInTheSky I only boot it up to play the new heist and thats pretty much it. If I wasnt a big Payday 2 fan I would most likely not even own Payday 3. Also with ur logic the game would still only have like 200 players and the servers would be shut down next year.
@@ShinyLightzInTheSky you can keep say that but Payday 3 need to generate money to have a future, a mere 200+ active player can't keep the game alive for long, it need to change.
I wish Mio the best. While I don't agree with all of his decisions, I still hope he finds success in other projects. His ideas just weren't what the community wanted which is fine when expressed in a good away. I deleted Twitter a long time ago and I have never looked back. It's such a vitriolic site that usually doesnt produce any meaningful conversations. That being said, Almir and Andreas are the perfect choices for this. They have experience with the franchise and know the games well. Here's hoping that we'll be playing Payday 3 for a while.
Im not that connected to Payday 3 outside of the game itself so I still said "what drama" to myself but this video has both enlightened and kinda depressed me lmao.
i never rly liked mio, if u watch a stream from a few months back w elizabeth he was so demanding and telling her to play exactly as he wanted her to play, not even js showing stuff to the community but when she went into hiding or something he would say something along the lines of dont hide get up and shoot, annoying backseater thats worse on twitter
I feel like if he was a good director, he'd know that the game allowing her to play in a way he didn't like was his fault and the game's fault, not her fault. But he sucks at his job, so..
I really hope that they bring back some of the power fantasy that Payday 2 has become so famous for. Having the crazy builds from rogue to stoic to anarchist, it felt awesome to have that power to mow down cops, to live that fantasy of a heist. I've been holding out on buying Payday 3 until they relearn what made their past titles so popular, and as soon as I see a return to them I'll be happy to buy it.
I don't get how any of the Developers and the Creators could think that making Payday 3 different was a good choice. If you want to make a different Game then dont go calling it Payday!! What I personally wanted to see was basically just a modernization of Payday 2 just like Payday 2 was mostly a modernization of Payday 1. More realistic and impactful Gunplay, better Graphics, better AI and Pathfinding, refined Stealth (basically the only change that I think they nailed except for the weird scanning mechanic where you just have to wait), more verticality and bigger Maps, more traversal Options and more Movement Options (would have liked to see crawling for air ducts for example). The Skill System is interesting but it doesn't fit how I want to play Payday. What I want out of a Skill System is what Payday 2 did. Meaningfully impacting the Way I play. Being able to really spec into different things. The System we have now is far too complicated for those People that just want to jump into the Game with a Friend after work once a week. I don't want to check my Skills every time and have to try to remember which action I have to do to trigger some minor Buff. Sure, the Skill System changes the Way we play, but not because it encourages certain Behaviour, but by just not actually working if you don't do this one specific thing like staying in ADS for 1,5 seconds or sprinting for x seconds. Sure, it makes me aim, but what If I don't need that long to make precise shots? Why not just passively reward me with buffs every time I aim or give me a buff for the next 5 Shots after landing 2 consecutive headshots.
I remember the days of video games being the place for us to escape, now it's another place for us to fight each other and the devs over how the game should be made.
Such a dumb and delusional comment. People have been arguing over games since day one and there’s nothing wrong with that. Your comment insinuates that we should just shutup and accept the garbage being shoveled down our throats as well. How about no Scott?
Payday 3 NEEDS a skill revork akin to update 100 one also PD3 on launch was an astunding failure, STILL IS, a sequel shouldn't be known for cutting down feathures
Its kinda weird how much people like Lucky seem to got an angle against ya over all this. We can make our own decisions on our own, we ain't sheep following the famous youtuber
maybe this is overly optimistic but im still glad that people are talking about payday 3, because i would think that anyone whos keeping up with the game, even if not an active player(like me), does want to play the game, but doesnt think the game is currently worth it. the alternative being,,, a dead game. also, i havent been the most diligent with keeping up with the news, but from what it sounded like in your video it really seems ovk/sbz has a problem with overlapping roles. you almost seem more like a QA tester than a creator affiliate when you talk about internal stuff, and the game director, while i think its good that theyre active in the community, should really have like a pr team or something, as weve seen from mio and almir and their fumbles with the fans. also big agree on the opinion piece part. its youtube, you should express your opinion, it is good that you are. i think the main issue with it is (again), partners seem to have a weird state of being where theyre partially creators and stars, and part QA testers. these things should not really mix.
great observation about the overlap, I hadn't thought about it this way before In some ways the drama kept the game alive in people's minds so maybe it wasn't for the worst?
I still think Payday 3's biggest issues for me are: A) The Edge/Grit/Rush system. I'll always say this to anyone that asks, but skills in games like this should be taken because they compliment my play style, not to force me to change it or play in an unnatural way. Trying to maintain EGR consistently forces me to waste ammo and reload, or drop and pick up a bag. Having to play around these buffs in order to have weapons deal as much damage as they feel like they should just feels like busywork to me, with Edge being the biggest offender with so many weapons being *just* short of the threshold and needing an extra shot to kill an enemy. I'd prefer for this system to either go entirely or be reworked so that they're only activators for skills rather than fairly essential buffs by themselves, with an exception for maybe Rush. B) The skills system is filled with skills that are mostly useless or have niche applications, too niche to be used in almost every build or that will be useful only in one heist, and skills that are borderline *essential* to take. I don't think any skill should be essential, and I don't have a problem with niche skills, but take the skills that give you bonuses for taking law enforcement as human shields for instance. The only ways to consistently do that I can think off are flashbangs, which are limited per heist and it forces you to take a support throwable to take a hostage rather than just killing them, slowing down the action and putting you in more danger, and other players who see flashed cops will just kill them anyway. It's an inherently flawed skill set to take because there are few ways to consistently do it. (Simple solution would be to have a skill open up cops to being grabbed when you stun them with a melee attack) C) Weapon EXP. On the surface I don't mind it, but having it be tied to heist completion rather than kills (or even weapon challenges) just feels so wrong to me, especially with how long it takes to level them up and how some weapons have as many as like 20+ levels while some might have 7. My ideal solution would be one of two things. Either tie it to kills or challenges rather than just heist completions, or an approach I'd prefer, make a standard amount of weapon levels across the board. Say 6 levels per weapon for instance. Have each level up unlock multiple weapon mods, but make the levels escalate with the amount of EXP you need. So level 0-1 should be pretty quick, 1-2 slightly sower. 2-3 be about what we have now and 3-4 be slightly slower, and so on. It feels right now that I can't really start having fun with a weapon until its later levels, which is asking me to dedicate many hours of my time to one weapon, and it kills variety for me.
I'm one of those non-players. Been following the game all year while still playing 2. All the changes compared to 2 felt like a downgrade so I held off for a bit. I'm glad about that but I hope PD3 becomes something worthy of hype
Payday 3 has so many improvements to stealth that it's hard to even think about going back to Payday 2. From nuance to how the guards treat you, to the ability to be escorted instead of immediately being blown, to even the ability to complete certain heists without ever putting your mask on. It's no comparison between the two. But, unfortunately, the exact opposite is the case for loud between 2 and 3, and the dev's inability to admit that or understand why will eventually kill Payday 3 if nothing changes. Because if you can only have ONE type of play working and being fun, it should be loud. Killing Payday 2 won't make people play Payday 3, it will make people abandon Starbreeze entirely.
PD3 doesnt need to change mechanically, the gunplay is fun, the bigger issue i think is the lack of variety not only between builds but also how, imo, there isnt a sense of scale the way PD2 had after some time. Thats what i think people remember, the over the top hiests, the different builds 4 different people COULD bring to a heist, the feeling of taking on something larger than the 4 person gang of missfits and crooks should be able to. We went from kings of the underworld back to petty thieves with the same 4 characters, dont get me wrong i love the crew, but their time is done. They've retired. Why are they back? Make some new young up and coming gang heavily influenced by the payday crew, using their iconic masks and maybe have Dallas pick them up as their new bain or something. The whole game kind of spits in the face of the community that loves what has existed for a fresh new take of the same characters that nobody really wanted or asked for. "Overpowered" is fine so long as its fun and engaging, you can take every live service game out there as an example, they shuffle whats the best from time to time to keep things fresh even if people dont really like the changes, here its just buy the new dlc to get the new broken weapon but with the same build, using the same uninspired characters and a huge lack of inspirational leaps to try something new and wacky, shoot payday 2 went out with some of the most bizarre heist choices available of the entire game. I really love payday, and i know at this point it is too late to make these kinds of massive changes, but something has to give. The way things are going just isn't good for the longevity of a game with massive shareholders invested. They WILL shut this game down if it doesn't show profit "soon".
@@luxxers you seriously havent seen a single broken thing after any update? the lighting is the most atrocious, i get put into random maps after the quickplay was added even wheni pick a specific one. You definitely have a lighting issue on some maps, everyone does.
I'm a fan of yours, part of the community if you will. I dont like ammo funnel. I dont use it. It feels too arcadey for me in a game that wants to lean into realism. My solution is to not use that skill. Does it hurt my overall performance? Sure, quite a bit, maybe. But IMO me not liking something isn't a good reason to say others shouldn't have access to it. Other people can run it and if they are having fun, that's great! What I'd like instead is to give us better options that don't break the veil of faux-realisim, but that is entirely subjective. For example, I think the upcoming mini-gun will break that illusion for me. I'm still hype that people will get a cool new thing to play with.
Even the gameplay in the background looks so boring compared to even the most boring parts of PD2. I'd rather play bomb forest dsod only rather than anything in PD3.
I love pd2 and was excited for pd3. I usually give games 1 week time for reviews and it really didn't give me confidence in its launch. I want to get that spark to make pd3 feel worth buying.
i have no idea why games nowadays look at the weakest trash in their game and think "ah yes the players love how weak this is, lets absolutley ruin thier fun making sure everything is equally weak" instead of "why are players having fun with this and how can we make the stuff they dont use similar enough they can enjoy it" tf is going on in the logic departments
Thing about Lucky's video and if payday's direction is already sealed is that THAT is a non-point. Doesn't matter, players don't care about the business side, they care how it feels. Lucky seems really immature about this lol I get being tired of it, it's not your normal style. You want to have fun but are in a funny situation
Everyone I know that looked at or played payday 3 just wanted a updated payday 2. They weren't looking for a realistic game, but one you could just turn off your brain and have fun.
@@ShinyLightzInTheSky well, considering the small number of active playerbase of payday 3 right now, it's pretty clear that a lot of people did do just that or move on to something else.
People often forget that live-service games are a 2 way communication between creators and players. Recent example of this being done right is Helldivers 2 where the developers actively engages with the players by giving them challenges, GM style. If it's just them pushing out updates and changes and us receiving those changes without a say in it, then the "live-service" part of it is gone.
Nothing is more convincing than the end product. You could have the biggest hype train with all the creators and stuff, kinda like pre launch with the events at that gaming convention (cant remember the name) where they had a demo for the game, but if the end product is still meh, people arent gonna play it.
While not playing all the time due to other games I play with my friends, I do like Payday 3 thanks to your videos managing my expectations. I'm hoping to see it come full circle at a later date as well.
While I was interested in a more grounded Payday 3, the execution of it was terrible. While I like how they greatly improved Stealth from Payday 2, Loud just feels boring and repetitive. There's little variety since most of the same skills are used and not many viable deviations exist for builds. There's obvious power creep with the DLC weapons. And the game feels more generic. While I commend trying something new, if the majority of the player base doesnt like it, yiu got to choices: 1. Take the criticism on the chin and change the mechanics to something they will like, and hopefully people will come back for a good time. 2. Ignore the criticism and accept your live service game will fail since theres so much competition for our time and money. Until they somehow manage to make this game as fun as Payday 2, I'm sticking to that.
Payday 3 has one major hurdle. "Why would I play this over Payday 2?" and I think they've failed woefully to give any reason and have given plenty of reason to not touch it.
I hope sooner rather than later they decide to do a complete overhaul of the games mechanics and ui. especially now that Almir and Andreas are at the helm. as I make this commemt there aren't even 600 people playing Payday3 the game really needs a "Relaunch" DLC or Campaign to let players know that payday 3 is drastically different than when it launched
keep being the voice of the payday community the game has been in a limbo state atm and them letting Almir and Andreas take over is a step in the right direction lets hope year 2 will be more exciting.
I heard people saying get Mio off Payday 3. I didn't think they were serious. As for Ammo Funnel, don't change the game when there's not a clear alternative. Honesty, now I think it could be fine with the Ammo Funnel changes. Thanks to the LMG & Tribune. My aim is terrible.
Payday3 should have just been an upgraded and more insane payday2. Going for what i have heard been described as "more realistic" wasn't a good move. Payday is at its most fun when it's just insane.
Payday 2 turned into my most played Steam game since I picked it up early 2022. I still haven't purchased Payday 3 mainly due to the lack of build depth. The skill system in Payday 2 felt very good with how you could pick a perk deck to play and then use the skill tree to bolster it and fill in some possible gaps. Payday 3s system just seems a bit too simple for my enjoyment so I just haven't even given it a chance. I am waiting for the update and changes that make me want to play actually try the game though and want the game to succeed.
You know… I’m sad this is happening to Payday 3. I remember being so hyped for it, I remember speculating with my best friend, eager to play as characters… until the launch. It stopped there. I haven’t played a Payday game since the launch of 3. I just wish this game would be like 2, I miss dodge….
Regarding the ammo funnel stuff specifically, it is an incredibly good skill combo, IMO it does need to be nerfed a bit at some point. When it was first talked about was NOT the time to do it however, so I'm glad it didn't go through. Unfortunately, with how extreme the reaction was; I fear it will NEVER be touched again, lest the reaction be even worse. So now we are stuck with a skill synergy combo that is by and far meta defining and the game will be balanced around it from now to the end of Payday 3. I hope I'm wrong, I hope one day it does get changed, but it's not likely.
While the other side has a point that Payday 3 wouldn't be a sequel if it didn't have any changes from Payday 2, however I do think that the community would be okay if Payday 3 is almost like Payday 2 just with a different engine, since the diesel engine is ass. The ways that the diesel engine was repurposed and retooled still can't help the fact that it isn't optimized for the way Payday is supposed to be.
Sucks that the launch of this game alone probably made the boardroom their money back and kneecapped Payday as a franchise ever moving forward from this. All the absolutely tragic events of these past few months because a bunch of guys in suits who don't even play video games were concerned if Starbreeze was whipping their employees hard enough
Honestly, i think almir could be really good considering he is a community manager and so knows moreso what people want, and is more likely to act on that, rather than just what he thinks is good, but its also good he has Andreas along side him since almit isnt a 'game dev' of sorts i guess since hes only been a community manager i think, so they can work together.
I think it's fair to help alter "creative direction" after what was made and how it has been slow to fix. And if they fall into "us vs. them" that is a sign of a problem from them
Its a shame as the ammo funnel is really beneficial to me as I do speedruns for payday. Its not a game changer but its just changing the way I do runs. Getting back into the game now is weird with these changes and others to come
Oh they did a helldivers very unfortunate. I feel bad for community the devs seemed to have stumbled and fell into the best game they could have made with payday 2
i'm totally new to the pd3 franchise, i play with friends. we consider using regenerative armor and ammo funnel as cheese strats and we sort of avoid them. imo the game's biggest hinderance right now is the lack of content. for us, the game, as is, would be 10x better if it had twice the number of heists; And at the same time we'd hate it if the new heists are built around cheese skill combos. though i understand we might be a minority.
I do not know if it's something they're within the capacity of doing, but nevertheless I'd love to see this as a sign for the game to return to its Payday 2 roots as an RPG with guns
I think the biggest Payday drama is finding out Kknowley uses youtube in light mode.
Hold up, WHAT ?????
LMAO
He’s just like me
Only wretched foul specimens of the human species have eyes that cannot bear the beauty of the pure white photons blessing my brain
I've heard another creator say he viewed it in light mode because he wanted to see the platform as most of the userbase sees it. Honestly don't know how meaningful this is, as while I'm sure most users do watch in light mode, a large % have to just be watching sports highlights and Mr Beast videos.
We went from "what drama" to "which drama", a bit sad imo.
I want my payday, back 😢
I want my payday, too
Its bound to happen. You get 2 gems you're bound to get a black sheep or some very strange decisions
@@deathlygamingreal dentist? is that you?
@@sinwithagrin4243 It's not a black sheep however, we saw how far this studio had gone with their "The Walking Dead" game but sadly a lot of people just chopped it up to being a branded game.
In reality it's not that, people are given free will with that franchise, Telltale showed us that. It was just a bit of cope that the studio we once loved has truly lost their touch.
Almir and Andreas taking over as game directors is still a huge win for Payday 3. They have been with the Payday franchise for a very long time and are connected with the community, especially Almir. I'm hoping for good things.
Correct me if I'm wrong, since I haven't really kept up with the news since release's fiasco, but Andreas, during the first live streams when people were upset about the game's state, gave me the impression he knew the game was being mismanaged and pretty much agreed with most criticism.
Don't quote me, but he seems to know what he's doing.
WAIT WHAT? ALMIR IS GAME DIRECTOR NOW?
@@l2_linksklix He and Andreas are taking over, yes
Is this a warframe moment? Where Rebecca took over and the changes since have been super great?
@@HeyItsBradLet's hope so, Cyberpunk had the same thing happen with it post-launch
I would like to mention, that apparently Mio scoffed at the notion that anyone would want to play Payday 2 again. I think that says it all, in regards to the game’s philosophy for loud gameplay. If we check the playercounts, people are still preferring Payday 2, by a ratio of at least 10:1, for its loud gameplay.
Literally the only thing I could think of while playing Payday 3 during the hour fourty five ish that I played it was that I would just rather be playing Payday 2. Some of the stealth changes were cool, but so much of the fun silliness was gutted and the online-only nature of the game made it just feel like a completely different game, like I was playing Call of Duty: The Heist or something. It was just kinda...boring. Shame, since Payday 2 is still one of my favorite games on steam and I was quite looking forward to the sequel.
As much as I agree payday 3 shouldn't be a 2 remaster I do think right now it should take some lessons from payday 2... Scoffing at the mere motion of adding some of 2 into 3
he is to blame for pd3's botched design and rotten foundation.
I hope you know that most of payday 2 playercount are bots. 5k play it at best
@@doot7730 sequels SHOULD take the best out of the prequels as well as add new awesome stuff for the new entry.
> makes bad decisions for the game
> content creators tell them these are bad decisions
> refuse the feedback, act as if the content creators are mean for the sake of it
> community ends up hating the bad changes
> surprised pikachu face
Where did the whole don't shoot the messenger thing go?
Don't forget the threat of sending furry porn thing. Unless i'm mis-remembering.
Mio is no longer on the table
He is under it.😊
@@ChainBreaker01Huh?🤨
@@ChainBreaker01no that’s her triggered GF who’s under the table
@@Kotoknow I laughed way too hard at the mental image of this
I don’t get the reference.
I really admire and respect you as a creator for talking about these sorts of things. I bought PD3 on release and genuinely felt miserable during the first few months of the game; getting home from school to see whether or not the servers are *finally* working, not having the expansive and creative preplanning PD2 had and feeling forced to play a heist how the game wanted us to, and the lack of actual variation in the heists, loadouts and skills. I quit around a month before the legacy heist update and only mustered up the motivation to try it out once before ultimately uninstalling and finding other games that didn't feel as lifeless as PD3. It hurt because I've been a fan of the Payday series since 2015, and always looked forward to the next heist or weapon.
They dropped the ball on PD3 and while this isn't directly Mio's fault or anyone else's for that matter, it does really suck and I still make sure to keep myself updated through your content. Talking about everything related to PD3 can get tiring and I really respect your determination and love for this game.
It doesn't feel superficial like most things online these days and I do genuinely look forward to seeing where Almir and Andreas are going with PD3 now, and obviously your content as the game enters its second year. Good luck Payday gang! 💪💪
Im not gonna lie man i struggled through the first heist both through lag, connection falling through and everything else and i had to stop. I just couldn't do it so i have a lot of respect for you for sticking to it
Tbh, yea I feel the same way. Taking diamond district & diamond store as example, dismond district is almost the same everytime, doors, code locations, everything. Meanwhile, diamond store have rng on door spawn with the security room. Heck, even classic bank heist on 2 have 2 different vault door positions which requires different approaches.
The variation is lacking, and I don’t like it…it gives too little challenge, becomes mundane really fast since you do the same thing everytime, just like nrftw…
I don't think the real issue is the "restriction" of the game wanting you to play how it wanted to. The reality is that restrictions need to be well-placed and balanced with freedom in the right areas.
PAYDAY 3's real issue with restrictions is that it doesn't have anything to offer within its framework. Low variation, low emergent gameplay, repetition of something inherently lacking in depth.
Honestly, PAYDAY 3 is just a bad game and I think it failed in almost all its goals.
An absolutely excellent recounting of the last month or so's events (and beyond) - and I say that objectively. More personally, I appreciate hearing you discuss the events I found myself placed into in the way you have, too. Your support both privately and publicly meant a lot to me, and I'm lucky to call you a friend ❤
Awwww!
gotta love the heartfelt message
Mio is a massive failure, the first months of Payday 3 reflect that but more importantly, the way he took criticism from the content creators shows he does not have the mindset to be in charge of a project and his response to the community and content creators along with his partner simply put the last nail in the coffin. He should not have been game lead and the game undoubtedly suffered for it.
I wouldn't point the blame to just one person
@@Drozey710 Not the GAME DIRECTOR, huh?
@OhNoTheFace nope, I'd say there's quite a few there kiddo.
@@Drozey710I sure wouldn’t
Mio stepping down was the best thing to happen to the game in the last months
i don't think "which drama?" i think "oh god what has payday 3 done now? please tell me it's good finally" like some sort of sadist i'm still hoping 3 bounces back despite it being shit
It's kind of crazy it's become old pd3 vs new pd3 when most people still don't like either pd3
New pd3 is better just because the challenges were removed, that's already a monumental upgrade.
New payday 2
I wish they would scrap the entire skill system and start from scratch.
The EDGE, GRIT, and RUSH system is a bit boring, in my opinion.
My rifles class and my shotgun class are nearly identical.
I use silencers on every gun to benefit from the assassin skill line. This makes any other muzzle useless in my eyes. Making customization limited as well.
It's a lot to ask. But temporary damage buffs and faster lock picking is the peak of this skill system.
That's why people are outraged about the Ammo Funnel change. This game is already insanely limited.
What I'm wondering is why didn't they choose Almir or Andreas from the very start? Why Mio? It makes sense to pick individuals who are familiar with the game, interact with players, and even know the insides and outs of what's going on in the community (social media and game)
I am guessing that almir and andreas just wanted to step away and let a fresh pair of eyes look into payday 3. They didn't want to influence things in any way
Because Almir and Andreas already have other roles in the company. Same reason why their placement is only interim.
@@sssawfish Understandable, but wouldn't it make sense to assign people to what they're good at or has more experience at a specific area of Payday?
Edit: I'm assuming both Andreas and Almir are quite knowledgeable at designing especially since Almir was involved with the Jacket DLC in Payday 2
@@sssawfish Mio was ''interim'' game director too, calling it interim is just a formality. I think and hope Almir and Andreas are here to stay.
@@zerparadoxx9458The truth of the matter is we just don’t know.
The company most likely just agreed Mio would best fill out the role.
Been playing since 2012 on PDTH and have been with the journey for a long time. PAYDAY 2 was there for me during a lot of developmental times in HS and college, and was my fallback when things were rough. It's sad to know that PAYDAY 3 is nowhere near as fun even as I still play it, but I still try to keep it close to my heart. There's so much that's amazing about it, but so much left it needs to help it. It hurts and I'm getting tired. I just want the pain to end and for PAYDAY 3 to be amazing. I'm still here, still trying. I'll still be here playing PAYDAY until the very end, either way, because I have hope. I just want there to be something about the game that can tell me that my hope isn't misplaced, and that's why I'm still here. For the game, for the ARGs, for the memes, and for everything it has been for me.
Same. I really don't get how PD3 is not fun. New releases are bangers and all the heists are fun to play.
@@ShinyLightzInTheSky Feels like the first year of PAYDAY 2 where them continuously adding heists kept making it feel a little better more and more, then doing something huge like the Big Bank. Maybe we need something like that. It already feels like they're lagging behind comparatively, but like I said I'm not going anywhere.
@@cyrushimz I’m feeling the same way. I really think that if we, as a community, did give them a bit more time to polish some things up that payday three could be a better game than payday to ever was. Sorry if this message makes little sense I’m using my phones voice chat thing
@@ShinyLightzInTheSkyyou can’t be this delusional? Pd3 is terrible.
@@ShinyLightzInTheSkythat’s not how this works, you don’t get to release a game that barely works / is terrible for a year and then just get given the benefit of the doubt
Ngl, the fact that partners are doing QA's job is hilarious
Almir is back where he belongs 🔥♥️👑
Wasn't he the one saying "we need you to play the game now if you want it to get better"?
@Ninokuwuya yup, and if you don't understand that, good luck. Without support, there is no point.
@@NinokuwuyaHe was right though. Maybe he used the worst way to explain what he meant but he was still right. No community=no game
@Pexx666 @sirisaac6225 Think of it the other way around. If you don't have a good game now, we won't play it
@@Ninokuwuya and if you don't play the game, and don't support the devs, there will be no better game
Mio is completely living in their own world in regards to the reality of the payday 2-3 situation. It’s not realistic the way they handled the first year. Andreas and Almir being the creative leads makes the most sense, they’ve been on this franchise for almost the entirety of its mainstream appeal.
I think Ammo Funnel getting nerfed would have been totally fine per the community if it wasn't the *only interesting skill in the game.* Looking at Payday 2, there were tons of skills and perks that added new mechanics and funamentally changed how the game played- Inspire, Graze, Anarchist, the Dodge vs Armor dichotomy, the sheer variety of ways you could play Payday 2 was one of the biggest draws that kept me coming back. Payday 3 only really has one way to play it.
Yeah I miss late skill tree unlocks like the Saw and Super armor, Mastermind being able to convert cops and create a small squad of extra. PD3 has none of that.
Im one of those guys that kind of liked how PD3 was starting out (in spite of the launch issues).
I can see the vision so clearly, how they want to differentiate it from PD2's horde-style shoot up style and go for a more grounded, "Heat" style battle of attrition, scrapping by the skin of your teeth, fighting for every dollar bill you can.
But i think you made a good point that, in the end, the game needs to sustain itself to work, and that new, different vision for the game doesnt look like it's what a majority of players ultimately want from the game. For better or worse, it seems like people really just want PD2 with updated graphics. I dont blame them, id like that to, but fumbling right out the gate did not make the different style of gameplay sit well with most people, and honestly players dont teally have a reason to believe that itll work out
Basically you cannot change a game's popular stykle when you are just making a sequel to a game. Changes is style need to be new IPs or at least a subtitle change. Like Xcom:Chimera Squad for when they wanted to change how it all went. They made sure to not make that Xcom 3
Payday 3 is not a sequel to Payday 2, it feels more like a sequel to Payday The heist
you have a formula that you have been perfecting for over a decade and has a huge player base and you throw it in the garbage to release pd3 as it is and cry publicly why no one is playing it...
i play pd2 cuz i love everyting in pd2 and am sad cuz they cut off updates for it
but point is if you want to experiment with new formula, build a new ip, don't ruin an existing one
I do think a proper more gritty vision could have worked, they just messed it up to the core. Payday The Heist proves that it could work done right.
@@rangerdanger572 And not a good one
As someone who barely uses social media, I had no idea the ammo funnel drama was even going on until it was over. I wish Mio the best, and Almir and Andreas good luck with the game.
the Payday situation got crazier...
The Payday Situation Is Insane
Huge Payday Situation
I worked for Mio. She is a fraud
Massive Payday Drama
This is the greatest Payday drama of All Time
could you imagine if dead by daylight just pulled their licensed chapters one day without telling anyone. there would be an OUTRAGE
at some point this will become reality, licenses dont last forever and neither will a live service game. DBD is a live service game so pd2 will still be here and playable long after that is gone assuming they dont make it playable without servers.
Didn’t they do that with the Stranger Things chapter?
@@sirisaac6225i think they announced that it was leaving, and honestly i think a final call is fair. plus they renewed it
Nobody cares the people that play that game don't even care about themselves 😂😂😂
They did do that mate
All I want is for them to make an actual launch version of the game, and to achieve that they're going to have to remove the always online elements at a minimum, and hopefully make the multiplayer playable through a P2P(Peer-to-Peer) system.
And it would actually have been good for them to implement those things, because as year 1 is rounding up, and with it I imagine most contractual obligations for Deep Silver to keep the game rolling...
P2P? You want us to pay monthy subscriptions to play payday 3 online? You need to be a bit specific here because it appears to me that you are suggesting that Payday 3 go an MMORPG route
@@muchluck7981 P2P generally means peer to peer not pay to play which is what I'm assuming you think it means. Complete oversimplification but it's basically where all the players connect to eachother rather than a server.
@@phil3extranumbers Ahhhh. Makes more sense. thanks for the clarification
@@muchluck7981 Peer-to-Peer.
Edit: Basically it would let online games and lobbies in PD3 work the same way they do in PD2.
@@Lagbeard P2P uses a lot more resources firstly and secondly there is an offline mode?
That announcement today did a number and I wonder whether that alone already brings a couple people back to just see what year 2 has to offer. Sure it's a shame that another "leader" had to move on but even I myself struggled real bad to actually be "a fan" of Mio. I purely followed him on Twitter since he shared some PD3 related news there but after a while I just had to unfollow him there... just not my kind of sauce.
I'm glad you touched the guard buff a bit as well. I don't mind the change, it's weird how the civs didn't get the same treatment though but regardless, I think that alone would've deserved its own little spotlight just like Ammo Funnel did since it did cause quite a bit of change for PD3 stealthing as a whole.
Genuinely, all this stuff with Mio reminds me of the old "Days Gone" director. Blaming and directly antagonizing your player base and content creators only creates resentment. Telling your players that they don't know what's best for the game, even if you're right, is a bad look. Especially when the game is already struggling. You're pretty much giving them even more reasons not to play your game.
You're totally right, but to be fair to mio literally everything from the partners has been negative and that has to take a toll at some point. Hell, I'm just a fan and the constant negativity surrounding the game has caused me to unsubscribe from most of the payday partners since it's just not the content I want to consume, so I can only imagine people at starbreeze are tilted as hell.
I'm a pretty casual Payday player that primarily hops into Payday 2 on and off, your content on updates, fun gameplay ideas, and so on have always been amazing and your willingness to put your opinion and thoughts out on changes happening to the current Payday 3 have also been enjoyable. I hope no one is giving you any flak over any of these past "drama's" because you've always wanted the games to be as best as they could be, hell if it weren't for your videos on Payday 2 I may not have even gotten the drive to go back to it and give it a second go after being gone for many years. Keep doing what you do even if there is a minority that accuse you of abusing your power as a partner or some other bs.
This far into the game's lifecycle you've gotta accept that the only people watching this content are those invested in the game; acting as though creators are able to so heavily influence that audience is just not a reality. All someone does by not giving their honest opinions at this point is harm their own credibility and reputation, say a disenfranchised player comes back to the game off your content and finds it still the same mess it always was, do you think they're suddenly going to stick around because the UA-cam man said the game is good now? Of course not, they're going to stop playing and resent him.
I always hate these arguments that negative content is somehow the REAL issue and if everyone just shut their mouths then suddenly everything would turn out fine, it's just an attempt to stop people who disagree with you from voicing their opinions. This isn't the first game it's happened to and god knows it won't be the last.
I am dismissing the other side of the ammo funnel nerf argument, because this form of balancing is THE WORST way to balance a game
Nerfing all the best stuff so everything in the full game is total trash as opposed to making everything good is horrible and NEVER works
But ammo funnel is objectively the strongest and most necessary skill in PD3, which is exactly what they were intending to avoid with the new skill system (which is why skills like inspire aren't in the game, since they were so powerful they needed to be forced into every build). Nerfing things is by no means a bad thing, especially when it is such an outlier in strength.
Helldivers moment
A talented designer who took everything from the call of duty? When did stealing ideas become a talent? If you can't accept criticism and stay with your opinion, get off the stage. If you don't listen to your community, get off the stage. You don't know what the 2nd part of the game was like, I didn't realize in a year that the style of the 3rd part is not liked by the players - be kind, never touch the gaming industry again. Nothing personal, just facts.
I don't think a payday 2 clone would be a bad thing. I think what everyone invested in the series really just wanted was just payday 2, with better visuals, better feel, and a new story. Also drills were better than circles by a long shot, just gotta put that out there because it's just that bad. At least we were able to move around during our old waiting simulator.
Payday 2 in a better engine (making more things possible) with the features and mood of PDTH would’ve been perfect.
@@Dr.Oofers ask console players show they feel about it. If you like payday 2 so much then go play it.
@@ShinyLightzInTheSkyseeing the popularity pd2 had on PC, even towards the end, console players would have probably also loved it if it was playable and in an actually good engine
@@Dr.Oofersno features (by features I don’t mean anything in menu I mean completely in the actual game like closing doors and unmasked tasks) of payday 3
@@zjanez2868yeah it is absolutely fucking unplayable i WANT to love payday 2 but
A; I hate the detection system
B; Without the mechanics of payday 3 and playing payday 3 first it is hard for me to play it. I WANT TO CLOSE DOORS CARRY TWO BAGS HAVE RUSH AND BE ABLE TO DO THAT SHIT WITHOUT PUTTING ON MY MADK
VoIP will be such a welcomed addition, since most players tend to just break stealth and quit instead of trying to start a party on console or work together
just want stealth and loud filters, thats all, idk why thats so ahrd to ask for but thius would make the game 10 time smore playable for me. its not enjoyable to fnd a new game every 2 minutes because nobody wants to go loud
The thing I don't get regarding the whole hangup about Payday 3 being a "Payday 2 Clone" is that Payday 2's fundamentals are still fresh. It's still incredibly fun. A sizeable crowd wants a Payday 2 clone for a reason, and furthermore it would SELL. LIKE. BREAD. Payday 2's formula with a shiny new engine, a better-told story, and brand new heists that take full advantage of that engine for crazy things? That's money.
I also understand what they were trying to do, a take on the series that is more grounded and gritty... but that's just clearly not what the community wanted. Maybe we wait until the wheel is broken before we try and reinvent it, you know?
Barely works and is missing content for console. I hope that it isn't a PD2 clone
@@ShinyLightzInTheSkyyou know that’s not what he meant, a straw man fallacy is pretty underhanded yknow
@@Kero-zc5tc no fallacy intended; no need to keyboard warrior.
All I’m saying is I don’t think they need to go to old ways; especially when old ways were 50% for some. I just want them to add more content since the game is already fun.
@@ShinyLightzInTheSky if they releasyed payday 3 as a simple continuation of 2 with new systems to modernize it it would have been a success. yeah console experience was objectively worse but that's the whole point of a sequel, to be better than the previous. I don't know why they decided to take on this direction but people obviously aren't a fan. beyond the bugs and lack of content the game is simply less fun and engaging than a 10 year old game which IMO is simply unacceptable especially when the creators are the same company.
@@ShinyLightzInTheSkythey weren't referencing how payday 2 was handled, they were referencing how it functioned. a blind person could see the game was handled like shit until late into its lifetime. how it functions though, is great. with their knowledge on how they messed up in handling it, it the third was just a rehash of the same old game mechanics, i think they'd be able to handle it pretty well.
im kinda glad i newer got my invite into the dev chat that was included with the collectors edition
17x more people watched this video 3 hours after it released than played payday 3 in the last 24 hours. While the larger payday fan base is still somewhat there the game itself is a shambling corpse, I don’t think it can be saved
Payday 3 is simply a bad game and the majority of people arent even Payday 3 fans they just want an actual sequel to Payday 2 instead.
@@skeley6776 don’t play it then. Let the people who do enjoy it enjoy it
@@ShinyLightzInTheSky I only boot it up to play the new heist and thats pretty much it. If I wasnt a big Payday 2 fan I would most likely not even own Payday 3.
Also with ur logic the game would still only have like 200 players and the servers would be shut down next year.
@@ShinyLightzInTheSky you can keep say that but Payday 3 need to generate money to have a future, a mere 200+ active player can't keep the game alive for long, it need to change.
@@ShinyLightzInTheSky okay enjoy a game with 200 people
I wish Mio the best. While I don't agree with all of his decisions, I still hope he finds success in other projects. His ideas just weren't what the community wanted which is fine when expressed in a good away. I deleted Twitter a long time ago and I have never looked back. It's such a vitriolic site that usually doesnt produce any meaningful conversations.
That being said, Almir and Andreas are the perfect choices for this. They have experience with the franchise and know the games well.
Here's hoping that we'll be playing Payday 3 for a while.
I picked this game up a few days ago because PD2 was one of my favorite games ever and I hope 3 can get there as well. It has potential.
Im not that connected to Payday 3 outside of the game itself so I still said "what drama" to myself but this video has both enlightened and kinda depressed me lmao.
i never rly liked mio, if u watch a stream from a few months back w elizabeth he was so demanding and telling her to play exactly as he wanted her to play, not even js showing stuff to the community but when she went into hiding or something he would say something along the lines of dont hide get up and shoot, annoying backseater thats worse on twitter
Jeez. What stream was this?
I feel like if he was a good director, he'd know that the game allowing her to play in a way he didn't like was his fault and the game's fault, not her fault. But he sucks at his job, so..
I really hope that they bring back some of the power fantasy that Payday 2 has become so famous for. Having the crazy builds from rogue to stoic to anarchist, it felt awesome to have that power to mow down cops, to live that fantasy of a heist. I've been holding out on buying Payday 3 until they relearn what made their past titles so popular, and as soon as I see a return to them I'll be happy to buy it.
I don't get how any of the Developers and the Creators could think that making Payday 3 different was a good choice. If you want to make a different Game then dont go calling it Payday!!
What I personally wanted to see was basically just a modernization of Payday 2 just like Payday 2 was mostly a modernization of Payday 1. More realistic and impactful Gunplay, better Graphics, better AI and Pathfinding, refined Stealth (basically the only change that I think they nailed except for the weird scanning mechanic where you just have to wait), more verticality and bigger Maps, more traversal Options and more Movement Options (would have liked to see crawling for air ducts for example).
The Skill System is interesting but it doesn't fit how I want to play Payday. What I want out of a Skill System is what Payday 2 did. Meaningfully impacting the Way I play. Being able to really spec into different things.
The System we have now is far too complicated for those People that just want to jump into the Game with a Friend after work once a week. I don't want to check my Skills every time and have to try to remember which action I have to do to trigger some minor Buff. Sure, the Skill System changes the Way we play, but not because it encourages certain Behaviour, but by just not actually working if you don't do this one specific thing like staying in ADS for 1,5 seconds or sprinting for x seconds. Sure, it makes me aim, but what If I don't need that long to make precise shots? Why not just passively reward me with buffs every time I aim or give me a buff for the next 5 Shots after landing 2 consecutive headshots.
I find it good news but hopefully this will be a turn for the better, hopefully mio is successful and learns better business edict.
I remember the days of video games being the place for us to escape, now it's another place for us to fight each other and the devs over how the game should be made.
Such a dumb and delusional comment. People have been arguing over games since day one and there’s nothing wrong with that. Your comment insinuates that we should just shutup and accept the garbage being shoveled down our throats as well. How about no Scott?
The big thing holding back payday 3 for me personally is the current skill system
Payday 3 NEEDS a skill revork akin to update 100 one
also PD3 on launch was an astunding failure, STILL IS, a sequel shouldn't be known for cutting down feathures
I just screamed a victory screech heard around the apartment complex. God is good. The evil is defeated.
Its kinda weird how much people like Lucky seem to got an angle against ya over all this. We can make our own decisions on our own, we ain't sheep following the famous youtuber
No there's definitely tons of people who just follow trends. See: Palworld and Helldivers 2
maybe this is overly optimistic but im still glad that people are talking about payday 3, because i would think that anyone whos keeping up with the game, even if not an active player(like me), does want to play the game, but doesnt think the game is currently worth it. the alternative being,,, a dead game.
also, i havent been the most diligent with keeping up with the news, but from what it sounded like in your video it really seems ovk/sbz has a problem with overlapping roles. you almost seem more like a QA tester than a creator affiliate when you talk about internal stuff, and the game director, while i think its good that theyre active in the community, should really have like a pr team or something, as weve seen from mio and almir and their fumbles with the fans.
also big agree on the opinion piece part. its youtube, you should express your opinion, it is good that you are. i think the main issue with it is (again), partners seem to have a weird state of being where theyre partially creators and stars, and part QA testers. these things should not really mix.
great observation about the overlap, I hadn't thought about it this way before
In some ways the drama kept the game alive in people's minds so maybe it wasn't for the worst?
I still think Payday 3's biggest issues for me are:
A) The Edge/Grit/Rush system. I'll always say this to anyone that asks, but skills in games like this should be taken because they compliment my play style, not to force me to change it or play in an unnatural way. Trying to maintain EGR consistently forces me to waste ammo and reload, or drop and pick up a bag. Having to play around these buffs in order to have weapons deal as much damage as they feel like they should just feels like busywork to me, with Edge being the biggest offender with so many weapons being *just* short of the threshold and needing an extra shot to kill an enemy. I'd prefer for this system to either go entirely or be reworked so that they're only activators for skills rather than fairly essential buffs by themselves, with an exception for maybe Rush.
B) The skills system is filled with skills that are mostly useless or have niche applications, too niche to be used in almost every build or that will be useful only in one heist, and skills that are borderline *essential* to take. I don't think any skill should be essential, and I don't have a problem with niche skills, but take the skills that give you bonuses for taking law enforcement as human shields for instance. The only ways to consistently do that I can think off are flashbangs, which are limited per heist and it forces you to take a support throwable to take a hostage rather than just killing them, slowing down the action and putting you in more danger, and other players who see flashed cops will just kill them anyway. It's an inherently flawed skill set to take because there are few ways to consistently do it. (Simple solution would be to have a skill open up cops to being grabbed when you stun them with a melee attack)
C) Weapon EXP. On the surface I don't mind it, but having it be tied to heist completion rather than kills (or even weapon challenges) just feels so wrong to me, especially with how long it takes to level them up and how some weapons have as many as like 20+ levels while some might have 7. My ideal solution would be one of two things. Either tie it to kills or challenges rather than just heist completions, or an approach I'd prefer, make a standard amount of weapon levels across the board. Say 6 levels per weapon for instance. Have each level up unlock multiple weapon mods, but make the levels escalate with the amount of EXP you need. So level 0-1 should be pretty quick, 1-2 slightly sower. 2-3 be about what we have now and 3-4 be slightly slower, and so on. It feels right now that I can't really start having fun with a weapon until its later levels, which is asking me to dedicate many hours of my time to one weapon, and it kills variety for me.
4:28 hi there
I'm one of those non-players. Been following the game all year while still playing 2. All the changes compared to 2 felt like a downgrade so I held off for a bit. I'm glad about that but I hope PD3 becomes something worthy of hype
Payday 3 has so many improvements to stealth that it's hard to even think about going back to Payday 2. From nuance to how the guards treat you, to the ability to be escorted instead of immediately being blown, to even the ability to complete certain heists without ever putting your mask on. It's no comparison between the two. But, unfortunately, the exact opposite is the case for loud between 2 and 3, and the dev's inability to admit that or understand why will eventually kill Payday 3 if nothing changes. Because if you can only have ONE type of play working and being fun, it should be loud. Killing Payday 2 won't make people play Payday 3, it will make people abandon Starbreeze entirely.
All we wanted was a new updated payday 2 with new content and gameplay improvements.
Not whatever they are trying to turn the game into.
Almir being game director is a huge W
PD3 doesnt need to change mechanically, the gunplay is fun, the bigger issue i think is the lack of variety not only between builds but also how, imo, there isnt a sense of scale the way PD2 had after some time. Thats what i think people remember, the over the top hiests, the different builds 4 different people COULD bring to a heist, the feeling of taking on something larger than the 4 person gang of missfits and crooks should be able to. We went from kings of the underworld back to petty thieves with the same 4 characters, dont get me wrong i love the crew, but their time is done. They've retired. Why are they back? Make some new young up and coming gang heavily influenced by the payday crew, using their iconic masks and maybe have Dallas pick them up as their new bain or something. The whole game kind of spits in the face of the community that loves what has existed for a fresh new take of the same characters that nobody really wanted or asked for. "Overpowered" is fine so long as its fun and engaging, you can take every live service game out there as an example, they shuffle whats the best from time to time to keep things fresh even if people dont really like the changes, here its just buy the new dlc to get the new broken weapon but with the same build, using the same uninspired characters and a huge lack of inspirational leaps to try something new and wacky, shoot payday 2 went out with some of the most bizarre heist choices available of the entire game. I really love payday, and i know at this point it is too late to make these kinds of massive changes, but something has to give. The way things are going just isn't good for the longevity of a game with massive shareholders invested. They WILL shut this game down if it doesn't show profit "soon".
Dude Payday 3 and Helldivers 2 can’t both figure out how to lauch a patch without breaking everything and cant balance the game lol
What Payday 3 are you playing?
@@luxxers you seriously havent seen a single broken thing after any update? the lighting is the most atrocious, i get put into random maps after the quickplay was added even wheni pick a specific one. You definitely have a lighting issue on some maps, everyone does.
Helldivers 2 can balance their game, people are just complaining that they have a couple less mags in a gun and getting childish.
I'm a fan of yours, part of the community if you will. I dont like ammo funnel. I dont use it. It feels too arcadey for me in a game that wants to lean into realism.
My solution is to not use that skill. Does it hurt my overall performance? Sure, quite a bit, maybe. But IMO me not liking something isn't a good reason to say others shouldn't have access to it. Other people can run it and if they are having fun, that's great!
What I'd like instead is to give us better options that don't break the veil of faux-realisim, but that is entirely subjective. For example, I think the upcoming mini-gun will break that illusion for me. I'm still hype that people will get a cool new thing to play with.
Even the gameplay in the background looks so boring compared to even the most boring parts of PD2. I'd rather play bomb forest dsod only rather than anything in PD3.
The real drama is the absurdity of them removing the game from the gamepass. Lmao
I love pd2 and was excited for pd3. I usually give games 1 week time for reviews and it really didn't give me confidence in its launch. I want to get that spark to make pd3 feel worth buying.
i have no idea why games nowadays look at the weakest trash in their game and think "ah yes the players love how weak this is, lets absolutley ruin thier fun making sure everything is equally weak" instead of "why are players having fun with this and how can we make the stuff they dont use similar enough they can enjoy it" tf is going on in the logic departments
Thing about Lucky's video and if payday's direction is already sealed is that THAT is a non-point. Doesn't matter, players don't care about the business side, they care how it feels. Lucky seems really immature about this lol
I get being tired of it, it's not your normal style. You want to have fun but are in a funny situation
I would buy the game if the armor system didn't suck so much
Payday 2 drama?! I never knew this until now!
Everyone I know that looked at or played payday 3 just wanted a updated payday 2. They weren't looking for a realistic game, but one you could just turn off your brain and have fun.
@@bnick8282 then play payday 2? Payday 3 should not be the same game as its predecessor.
@@ShinyLightzInTheSkyit shouldn't be the same game, but as a sequel it should offer something similar
@@ShinyLightzInTheSky well, considering the small number of active playerbase of payday 3 right now, it's pretty clear that a lot of people did do just that or move on to something else.
@@ShinyLightzInTheSkyOh don’t worry, everyone already is
@@unlimitedricepudding7826 then why waste time commenting on it?
The real operation medic bag starts now.
PD:TH had great heists with bare bones progression, PD2 had great progression with bare bones heists, PD3 is just bare bones.
People often forget that live-service games are a 2 way communication between creators and players. Recent example of this being done right is Helldivers 2 where the developers actively engages with the players by giving them challenges, GM style. If it's just them pushing out updates and changes and us receiving those changes without a say in it, then the "live-service" part of it is gone.
Mio’s no longer game director. Praise the lord.
Let’s see where it goes from here my friend.
Nothing is more convincing than the end product. You could have the biggest hype train with all the creators and stuff, kinda like pre launch with the events at that gaming convention (cant remember the name) where they had a demo for the game, but if the end product is still meh, people arent gonna play it.
While not playing all the time due to other games I play with my friends, I do like Payday 3 thanks to your videos managing my expectations. I'm hoping to see it come full circle at a later date as well.
While I was interested in a more grounded Payday 3, the execution of it was terrible. While I like how they greatly improved Stealth from Payday 2, Loud just feels boring and repetitive. There's little variety since most of the same skills are used and not many viable deviations exist for builds. There's obvious power creep with the DLC weapons. And the game feels more generic.
While I commend trying something new, if the majority of the player base doesnt like it, yiu got to choices:
1. Take the criticism on the chin and change the mechanics to something they will like, and hopefully people will come back for a good time.
2. Ignore the criticism and accept your live service game will fail since theres so much competition for our time and money.
Until they somehow manage to make this game as fun as Payday 2, I'm sticking to that.
2:58 Lol everyone will be running on dlc unlocker
Payday 3 has one major hurdle. "Why would I play this over Payday 2?" and I think they've failed woefully to give any reason and have given plenty of reason to not touch it.
one and a half years to late sadly, 5 years to late actually.
Whats the point of partners if none of the feedback gets through
to advertise the game, thats the entire point of partners
i just want payday 2 to be more consistently working again
It works fine, just update your mods
@@devlintaylor9520 I did it still crashes at the most random of times (I know payday 2 does that sometimes but never this bad)
@@racinracerxp8645 Noticed it too.
Might need to verify your steam files, sometimes things get weird.
I had no idea this was happening. Thanks for documenting this
I hope sooner rather than later they decide to do a complete overhaul of the games mechanics and ui. especially now that Almir and Andreas are at the helm. as I make this commemt there aren't even 600 people playing Payday3 the game really needs a "Relaunch" DLC or Campaign to let players know that payday 3 is drastically different than when it launched
I hope they can turn it around, I loved payday 2! Would be sad if this is the last payday we ever get 😢
keep being the voice of the payday community the game has been in a limbo state atm and them letting Almir and Andreas take over is a step in the right direction lets hope year 2 will be more exciting.
I heard people saying get Mio off Payday 3. I didn't think they were serious.
As for Ammo Funnel, don't change the game when there's not a clear alternative.
Honesty, now I think it could be fine with the Ammo Funnel changes.
Thanks to the LMG & Tribune. My aim is terrible.
Payday3 should have just been an upgraded and more insane payday2. Going for what i have heard been described as "more realistic" wasn't a good move. Payday is at its most fun when it's just insane.
They game would’ve been sick if loud was less “realistic” while the stealth was more “realistic”
oh yeah like payday 2 didnt have drama
the safe and keys was the biggest drama ever
Payday 2 turned into my most played Steam game since I picked it up early 2022. I still haven't purchased Payday 3 mainly due to the lack of build depth. The skill system in Payday 2 felt very good with how you could pick a perk deck to play and then use the skill tree to bolster it and fill in some possible gaps. Payday 3s system just seems a bit too simple for my enjoyment so I just haven't even given it a chance. I am waiting for the update and changes that make me want to play actually try the game though and want the game to succeed.
You know… I’m sad this is happening to Payday 3. I remember being so hyped for it, I remember speculating with my best friend, eager to play as characters… until the launch. It stopped there. I haven’t played a Payday game since the launch of 3. I just wish this game would be like 2, I miss dodge….
Regarding the ammo funnel stuff specifically, it is an incredibly good skill combo, IMO it does need to be nerfed a bit at some point. When it was first talked about was NOT the time to do it however, so I'm glad it didn't go through. Unfortunately, with how extreme the reaction was; I fear it will NEVER be touched again, lest the reaction be even worse. So now we are stuck with a skill synergy combo that is by and far meta defining and the game will be balanced around it from now to the end of Payday 3. I hope I'm wrong, I hope one day it does get changed, but it's not likely.
2 years later: "The Killing Floor Drama" 💀
Rough times, fellas, should we go for a legal job now? 😂
I didn't play payday 3 past launch really but I keep a hopeful eye on it through your videos. Maybe someday it'll be where I want to play it again
While the other side has a point that Payday 3 wouldn't be a sequel if it didn't have any changes from Payday 2, however I do think that the community would be okay if Payday 3 is almost like Payday 2 just with a different engine, since the diesel engine is ass. The ways that the diesel engine was repurposed and retooled still can't help the fact that it isn't optimized for the way Payday is supposed to be.
All i know is that I will never touch pd3, i dont like its graphics, nor the idea. Payday 2 forever.
Sucks that the launch of this game alone probably made the boardroom their money back and kneecapped Payday as a franchise ever moving forward from this. All the absolutely tragic events of these past few months because a bunch of guys in suits who don't even play video games were concerned if Starbreeze was whipping their employees hard enough
Honestly, i think almir could be really good considering he is a community manager and so knows moreso what people want, and is more likely to act on that, rather than just what he thinks is good, but its also good he has Andreas along side him since almit isnt a 'game dev' of sorts i guess since hes only been a community manager i think, so they can work together.
I think it's fair to help alter "creative direction" after what was made and how it has been slow to fix. And if they fall into "us vs. them" that is a sign of a problem from them
Its a shame as the ammo funnel is really beneficial to me as I do speedruns for payday. Its not a game changer but its just changing the way I do runs.
Getting back into the game now is weird with these changes and others to come
Oh they did a helldivers very unfortunate. I feel bad for community the devs seemed to have stumbled and fell into the best game they could have made with payday 2
i'm totally new to the pd3 franchise, i play with friends. we consider using regenerative armor and ammo funnel as cheese strats and we sort of avoid them. imo the game's biggest hinderance right now is the lack of content. for us, the game, as is, would be 10x better if it had twice the number of heists; And at the same time we'd hate it if the new heists are built around cheese skill combos. though i understand we might be a minority.
I do not know if it's something they're within the capacity of doing, but nevertheless I'd love to see this as a sign for the game to return to its Payday 2 roots as an RPG with guns