Cable Management for Bands and Live Sound Production | Sound System Cabling

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  • Опубліковано 15 лис 2024

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  • @AlanHamiltonAudio
    @AlanHamiltonAudio  5 місяців тому +1

    Today's video is a look at cable management practices for the stage. Bands, sound companies, techs, stagehands... anyone that works on a live audio stage should find this applicable. I had collected a lot of footage from various shows with examples of these concepts in action so I used the opportunity to edit them all together into a video talking about the concepts at play.
    I went over 40K subscribers the other day so the next milestone is that 50K subscriber mark. So likes and subscribes, and shares of the video link are always appreciated!
    If you work with a church audio team this is probably a good video to share with the tech team/volunteers.
    And of course any aspiring band wanting to tour (or just venture from the garage to the stage), or stagehands, techs, etc. should be interested in this topic.
    So many times people just start running cables without any thought to anything except getting something from point A to point B. And that quickly can devolve into a mess. Plus, next to impossible to quickly troubleshoot. Trip hazards, bad for cables, slows down the teardown... etc... all are problems associated with bad cable management practices.
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  • @cjseiler5546
    @cjseiler5546 5 місяців тому +5

    I’ve always felt the cleaner you are with your cables the easier it is to trouble shoot problems later on that may come up, especially when you have multiple bands on stage.

  • @billparker4815
    @billparker4815 5 місяців тому +1

    Cable management is one of my favorite indicators of what level of artist/company I’m working with

    • @AlanHamiltonAudio
      @AlanHamiltonAudio  5 місяців тому

      It's definitely a sign of experience or at least how much someone has been paying attention and trying to do things the right way on their journey as a tech or bandmember.

  • @SkylerMills
    @SkylerMills 5 місяців тому +1

    The part where you described where to leave the excess cable lengths was a big "ooohhh" moment for me. So obvious but easily over looked. Thanks man!

    • @AlanHamiltonAudio
      @AlanHamiltonAudio  5 місяців тому

      Yes, definitely. That's one I see people overlook yet it's so obvious when you take a bigger picture view.
      Thanks for watching and commenting!

  • @jasonlajuene2036
    @jasonlajuene2036 5 місяців тому +1

    I never knew it was called a festival patch... I try to learn something new every day so thank you. I in my experience have always just did festival patch on my mixers so i was always ready for what came my way. CHEERS !

    • @AlanHamiltonAudio
      @AlanHamiltonAudio  5 місяців тому +1

      Yes, it makes so much sense when you think about it. And not having to start a patch from scratch for each band, being it physical patching and running new lines, or the console layouts, is a major time-saver. Or for both consoles if there's a monitor console in use.
      In the previous video about IEMS ua-cam.com/video/XLCqQ3rF5Sg/v-deo.html I show an example of this same type of thing there too. A venue that has different bands all of the time might have a house patch they use onstage too, which can essentially be the same thing or same basic principle.
      Someone mentioned how cable management shows the experience level of the sound company (or band) and that is true. I once saw a local show where the tech was pulling EVERY line from the snake and repatching the entire stage for each band changeover. This quickly turned into a mess and they were off schedule pretty quickly. Plus, trying to do that, quick, and while bands are going on/off the stage quickly is a recipe for mispatching. Let alone forgetting things and then they look and there's a 3rd guitar amp, backup vocalist, another pair of toms, etc...

    • @jasonlajuene2036
      @jasonlajuene2036 5 місяців тому +1

      @@AlanHamiltonAudio i have been a fan for a while buddy, keep up the great content. I send your videos to the new guys on our team to show them the RIGHT way to do things. CHEERS !

  • @KENNETHCOOPER55
    @KENNETHCOOPER55 5 місяців тому +1

    Cable management just makes perfect sense
    If im rehearsing with my band in my basement, or were playing on a stage, im very OCD about how the cables are layed out, tho my band doesn't play festivals or big stages or tour, cable management is still important no matter what size of show ones playing
    Great video as usual

    • @AlanHamiltonAudio
      @AlanHamiltonAudio  5 місяців тому

      Thanks! That's right... Neater, safer, and safer for the cables too.

  • @cjvi
    @cjvi 6 днів тому +1

    Thank you

    • @cjvi
      @cjvi 6 днів тому +1

      Contribution

    • @cjvi
      @cjvi 6 днів тому +1

      musicians

  • @imark7777777
    @imark7777777 4 місяці тому +1

    Awesome video. Summarizes a lot of the thoughts I've had over the years. It's definitely going in my Sound info playlist.

  • @mitas3484
    @mitas3484 5 місяців тому +1

    I run the same drum setup like you, and have a custom snake I made with the proper lengths and a bit of slack to reach the subsnake with 10 in and 2 out behind or next to the drummer. Makes it super easy to setup, and can be easily adapted, if I need to mic up the toms I tend to use that one.
    I also use 3 of the 10/2 subsnakes for stage left, right and downstage for the drummer, so its super easy to move bands in and out, plug and unplug according to the number on the schematic for each subsnake, usually one side for bass, keys, guitar, drummer etc. Even if it dont fit, its so easy to talkback and say which port to use.
    I've tried to make one for foh as well, combining a powercable, ethercon, LR XLR etc. But it got way too heavy, so went back to individual rolls.
    The less time I spend worrying about cables, what to bring and long cables to roll back up, the better.

    • @AlanHamiltonAudio
      @AlanHamiltonAudio  5 місяців тому

      Anything that speeds a setup and teardown is a good thing when it is done properly. Efficiency is the name of the game. :)

  • @andreavigano6070
    @andreavigano6070 4 місяці тому +1

    Amazing, thanks!

  • @silvercoulter
    @silvercoulter 5 місяців тому +1

    I know those local bands you were working with here!

  • @frankieking1941
    @frankieking1941 5 місяців тому +1

    I notice, what I think is quite a lot of excess speaker cables coiled at the rear of the monitors. Will this not increase the impedance and potential cause a problem elsewhere?
    Great video.

    • @AlanHamiltonAudio
      @AlanHamiltonAudio  5 місяців тому +2

      No, no problem at all. And some people are afraid to run AC along the same path as mic lines... but for years, even when the consoles were analog and every show had a massive copper multipair snake between the stage and FOH, there'd be at least one circuit, if not 2 or 3 circuits of AC married to that snake. So there's be 200-300' of AC and EVERY line on stage running down that cable loom, side by side. It's still done... although many times now it's a digital snake. But not always. Analog FOH snakes are still used, even with digital consoles sometimes.
      As long as you're using balanced cables with decent shielding (which is about any mic cables these days) it's a theoretical problem, not a real-world problem.
      Now, you can run into issues maybe with a DI sitting on a bass amp, or too close to it (especially an old tube amp)... But that's not really applicable here. Although I'm sure somebody has moved the mic line away from AC, and in doing so also repositioned the DI, but thought moving the XLR cable is what made the difference (when it was really the DI being moved).
      That all said, if you're running lighting or something that's pulling lots of amps closer to the cable/circuit max, then a figure 8 is better than a coil. But that's really only something you'd run into with dimmers and pars... or LOTS of LEDs on a circuit. Not really applicable to some pedalboards, normal backline, iPhone chargers, or small fans. Or even most LED floor package where an LED light might only be drawing 100-200 watts.

  • @mhgreen
    @mhgreen 5 місяців тому +1

    Alan, what are your thoughts on Siamese Cables for speaker runs? Are they worth the cost or effort to build? When Striking the stage, do you rewrap cables that have slack coiled at the speaker? Thanks!

    • @AlanHamiltonAudio
      @AlanHamiltonAudio  5 місяців тому

      For sure it's a good idea when it's powered speakers and they need power and audio. Or power, audio, and data.
      "It depends" if you mean passive speakers and looming subs, mids, and highs together. That can get a little hard to work with quickly because it's generally 3-12ga cables, or a 12ga sub cable and a 12-4 mid/hi cable. Some people will get a pre-made 12-8 conductor cable and fanouts to NL4s (or NL2s), or a box that has NL8 inputs that they connect an NL8 cable to that breaks out to short NL4 type jumpers. One reason that works is that the cables are all in one jacket and so behave better, plus there's just one heavy jacket for the bundle as compared to looming separate runs together that make for separate heavy jackets for each pair of wires.
      Sometimes, the redundancy of keeping the mains on separate runs keeps some options open to you for situations where your subs can go to the center, or all on one side, or have to be split when normally you distribute them on the center... or everything can't go where it normally would go... or whatever.
      Of course, having spare sep cables can allow for options in those circumstances.
      Lastly, big, heavy looms can sometimes cost you time trying to manage them. So it's kind of a situational trade-off.
      But I'd say definitely looming cables for powered speakers can be handy, since a powered speaker is always going to need power and an audio feed. And maybe a data feed needed to.

  • @youtubak777
    @youtubak777 5 місяців тому +1

    Nice video! But I feel like nowadays with wireless transmitters, in-ears, powered speakers and Dante this is not that much of a problem anymore.
    I usually have just one stagebox by the drums with all drum mics and the keyboards plugged in. Vocals, guitars and wind instruments are all usually wirelessly connected to a rack off stage, which needs just power, two antennas and a network connection as the receivers can natively send Dante. The network switch rack is just next to it. If we do have wedges, they get it's sub-snake or stage box bellow the stage, but mostly it's in-eyers nowadays. The in-ear transmitters don't take Dante but have it's own interface in the rack. PA gets connected through a small interface, but our new line array system can take Dante directly. Then just two CAT7s to the FOH.
    So there isn't really that much on the stage... It gets a bit worse with pedal-boards and choirs, but it's still not as bad. Super quick, neat and convenient to set up!
    Yet I still come across techs who can't make it tidy! 😆😂

    • @AlanHamiltonAudio
      @AlanHamiltonAudio  5 місяців тому +1

      Oh yeah... If there's a way to make it messy, there's always someone who can find that way! ;)

  • @DrnkTheWildAir
    @DrnkTheWildAir 5 місяців тому +1

    Hello 👋🏼 Al!

  • @mayurgujarati2022
    @mayurgujarati2022 4 місяці тому +1

    Hello sir How to make a FOH and MOH connection
    Create a video

  • @LiberationMedia-z1o
    @LiberationMedia-z1o 4 місяці тому

    Good day. i need your help. my church recently purchased a Berhinger Xair18. very nice council but there is a little issue i am having with it.
    1. whenever i use the usb input to record the live audio, it also affects the faders in the app. the bass channel fader goes up beyond the set volume cause the livestream to be bassy.
    2. two of the channel faders in particular channel 5 and 8 are affected. they right down to 0. when trying to adjust them they automatically go back to zero but this doesnt happen when the usb is not connected.
    3. i use logic pro x to record. can you assist me with this. thank you. your videos have been very hepful

    • @AlanHamiltonAudio
      @AlanHamiltonAudio  4 місяці тому

      That's a tough one. I'm going to assume it's something to do with the DAW settings at one point or another in the chain.
      On X-Air Edit, go to SETTINGS... Then Audio/MIDI...
      In the MIDI Config section, are any of those boxes ticked?
      If they are, write down which ones it is (so you can remember in case you need to set it back) and then uncheck all the boxes in the MIDI Config section.
      I suppose, to be sure, reboot the console and double check with X-Air Edit they stayed unchecked.
      Now, try your mixer again, with the USB connected and see if that fixes the issue.
      Hopefully, it does, AND there was no reason you needed those boxes checked for something that you're doing. By default, none of that stuff is selected.

  • @huntercurry
    @huntercurry 5 місяців тому +1

    Hi Al!

  • @nathruz
    @nathruz 5 місяців тому +1

    Are sub snakes expensive?

    • @AlanHamiltonAudio
      @AlanHamiltonAudio  5 місяців тому +1

      It depends... They're not prohibitively expensive no matter what, but there are more expensive brands and models that use all Switchcraft or Neutrik brand connectors, metal strain reliefs on the ends, etc... And there are budget brands that use less known connector brands, plastic strain reliefs, etc..
      But one thing about subsnakes is that they typically only 'need' to be 6-8-12 channels each. Of course you can go 16, 18, 24 if you want bigger or extra channels (it's not going to hurt to have extra channels). And they don't need to be super-long. 25'...30'... 50'... And really, unless you're on larger stages 50' is generally overkill. So, a short, smaller channel count multi-pair snake is going to be the cheaper option of any snake cable.
      Also, these are the kinds of items that you can many times find someone selling used on eBay or FB... etc...
      Many times because a band bought a shorter, smaller snake as their main snake cable to save money and it turns out it doesn't have enough channels or length to be their main FOH snake. So they sell it rather than think about saving it as a sub snake. Or when they break up it's just something they get around to selling because they don't need it, or upgraded to a digital mixer and stage box connection and it got orphaned.
      So, it's not unusual to find something used for 25.00... maybe 50.00...
      And for around 100.00, something for the shorter, smaller channel counts even new. Maybe not even that much depending on the brands you're looking at. Definitely, ballpark pricing there.
      Finally, I did this video about Ethernet to Analog XLR audio adapters. ua-cam.com/video/FW6c4ROQbLc/v-deo.html
      So, you can use these to build 4 channel subsnakes with interchangeable ends and cable lengths. If you're wanting an inventory or options, or just a 4 channel option for your vocals on the downstage for example, these can be handy.

    • @nathruz
      @nathruz 5 місяців тому

      @@AlanHamiltonAudio speaking of Ethernet snake, do I need a Dante controller?

    • @AlanHamiltonAudio
      @AlanHamiltonAudio  5 місяців тому

      @@nathruz Not the type I'm talking about here. They're passive. All they're doing is taking advantage of the wires in an ethernet cable and giving you a way to break them out into XLRs. Assuming you're using shielded ethernet cable, that gives you 4 channels of analog XLR I/O to use that can also pass phantom power thru them.
      If you use unshielded ethernet cable, you can still get 4 XLR channels to work via the dongle, but it won't be able to pass phantom power thru it.
      So, there's nothing 'digital' about them.
      For someone like me that has a bunch of Ethercon cables already, adding the dongles to the case full of cables just adds options. I use them for drive lines, quick 4 channel subsnakes, and 4 channel DMX snakes all the time.

    • @darrylday30
      @darrylday30 4 місяці тому

      Where did you get the AC power cables? It looks like a great time saver.

    • @AlanHamiltonAudio
      @AlanHamiltonAudio  4 місяці тому +1

      @@darrylday30 I've got a couple different types so those are either Parts Express or Amazon.
      If you click the link in the video's text description to my Alan Hamilton Audio Amazon Site I've got some of them listed there.