Myth Busted? Here's How Much Range You REALLY Lose in the Extreme Cold!
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
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Great test. For those living in colder climates, these real world tests are hugely important to make an informed decision.
I agree. Although I do not own an EV of any type, it does help with these tests to know what to look for when purchasing one in the future. That Mini EV would be ok to use for work as its only a 10 mile round trip commute....but if I wanted to go to another town I'd need an EV with much more range of course, and I think most of today's EV's are quite capable of short commuting distances around the 100 mile range with ease and not need to worry about recharging regardless of what the weather is.
It’s always amazing to see how much of a difference cold weather makes for EV’s. That in addition to wet roads is pretty much the worst case scenario. Even driving in summer rain causes noticeably less range due to rolling resistance. I guess when a vehicle is that efficient every outside factor impacts range, no matter how small. Nice job showing the difference!
It would be interesting to see how much cold weather affects gas powered vehicles. Is it possible that we don't notice it because you can always fill up in 4 minutes?
@@dontbanmebrodontbanme5403 The most plausible reason it isn’t noticeable on ICE vehicles is because gas engines are extremely inefficient and heat is already a byproduct of that.
@@dontbanmebrodontbanme5403 Officially tests - 15% published by US NTSA for a standard temperature difference.
Compensation of air density - requiring more fuel as ICE requires correct mix, so more dense air requires more fuel
ICE engines are designed to operate at STP (ie about 20C), so different temperatures means the heat flows through the block, and heat extraction from the water, cooling etc is away from design
ICE engines have a "complex" transmission so the oil viscosity has much greater affect than in an EV with its simple reduction gear.
@@titaniummazdaspeed6 Various people (and official car testing) have shown for most EV's the loss of range of a car with heat pump is 15-20% , so only slightly worse than an ICE car.
@@dontbanmebrodontbanme5403 I think it's also being more cognizant of your range and exact energy remaining in a EV. I never noticed the energy difference driving back and forth to a work site until I got a Volt. I could never make it there on the battery, but could always make it home without using gas. I never even paid attention in the gas car, although it also doesn't have economy for just the trip too.
That’s pretty accurate. I remember traveling to a mall about 27 miles away from home with 55% in my mini thinking I would just need to top off on a level 2. My lead foot got the best of me and I ended up at a fast charger off the highway after the mall. 😂 However, in summer I was able to go 120 miles and get back with 12%. The adventures to train for range anxiety.
Thank you for this content on EVs and EV issues. I really LIKE the real world tests.
Loved this. We often get -5 to 15 degree temperatures here, and I have found the same results to be true for my vehicle. Where I could normally drive 220 miles easily, I am struggling to make a 150-mile drive when it's 0 degrees.
It's not the end of the world, but it is definitely a big mental readjustment for trip planning.
Very good idea for a video. This answers a lot of questions for cold weather driving with an EV. Great job.
I find your results pretty much on target. I am seeing a 40% reduction in range with my Ioniq 5 this winter. Under the same driving conditions and at the same speeds, at 80% charge I get 180 miles of range on my long-range RWD SEL. That is a very significant hit to range but it is still doable.
Hi Tommy! Love the content you put out! After watching your gas to electric mini idle comparison video, I’d be curious to compare this test to a gas vehicle in real world environment!
I’m glad you tested this and showed this. When your dad talked about the hoovie “winter range cut in half” video he said that the cold doesn’t make that big of a difference. Clearly he was mistaken.
-2 degrees Fahrenheit is pretty darn cold!! Thanks for the video. Always good to get a real-world idea of range comparisons between “warm” (60is still cool to me) and cold. 26% range difference is significant!
I live in Alberta Canada now and these real tests need to be watched by our government pushing hard to end gas engines. I always find it odd when I talk to a salesman for EV and they state the range when at 100% then say but we recommend charging to 80-90% so there goes let’s say 15% and cold weather here has shown like you we lose 30+% so the 400 km range is suddenly down to almost 50% so advertising a range of 400km when in winter more like 200km is unfair. I live in lake country where closest city hospital is 250kms away. Not to handy
Honestly, better than I expected in those conditions. We would see a 35% drop in MN with a Volt, with similar conditions. I'm rather impressed.
2:21 I do HVAC for a living. I live in Colorado Springs. During the Polar Vortex, the heat stopped working in my service vehicle, because, of course. (Irony.) So yes, realistically people will drive around with the heat off when it’s super cold outside.
All I know is my Lighting was fully charged when it hit -30 in Ohio last month when I went to leave for work it only had 35 Miles of range. Traded it in week after for 3.5 F150 XLT and it’s crazy I got more than I paid for it last year lol.
I've been tracking range on my drive from and to work in my Ionic 5. Both the 20 mile drive to and from work. Roughly 59 days tracked.
Sept 23rd to Oct 31st. I averaged 3.62Kw/hr in the morning to work, 4.2Kw/hr evening from work.
Nov 1st to current. I averaged 3.03KW/hr to work, and 3.62KW/hr from work.
I also marked down average temperature in this as well.
Sept 23rd to Oct 31st: 57.2F morning, 83F evening temp.
Nov 1st to current: 40F morning, 52.67F evening temp.
I had a BMW i3 for a few years, and would regularly drive it over mountain passes, including a stretch where the distance between charging stations was _just barely_ doable in blizzard conditions. One trip, I was heavier than normal and must have had a headwind - once I started uphill, the guess-o-meter was *WAY* short of the distance to the next charger. I knew I'd make it up on the downhill side, but it was lower than my normal runs, so I knew it was going to be pucker-factor close. Had to set my heat to 62 F, and shut it off for periods of time. Squeaked into the charging station with 1 mile indicated range. Would have loved to have had the heat pump instead of resistive heating.
Yeah I've noticed a 0.5-1 mi/kWh loss with my R1T in the cold. If it's a long road trip it will eventually creep up to a "fine" number but only after the entire drivetrain is warm
Thanks. That was interesting.
Sorry to nerd out here. but, a longer test should not have produced a higher change in efficiency, I think.
Don't apologize for that.
Generally, the longer the test the higher the reliability of the test.
For example if you had driven 1000 miles, noting all the rechange amounts along the way, it would simply average out the variables in road conditions.
So the reliability of your data would improve.
However the difference in the efficiency should still be about the same.
Love your work!!!
I am so happy I found this channel a few months ago while I wait for my Silverado EV..
The draw for the heating should be related to only two things, size of cabin and heater type. So if you compare the interior volume of the Mini to any other prospective vehicle with a heat pump you can then compare the battery size to determine how much % difference you will get. The small battery of the EV means that a (making up notional number) 1kW draw for heating will have a larger impact on range than a 1.4kW draw for a larger car with more than twice or three times the battery size.
I've noticed when you first drive, the efficiency is worse since the car uses more energy to warm up the battery. Once it settles, the eff improves (still not as good as ambient temps). The shorter the drive, the larger the difference between ambient & cold days.
Great video, great test, thanks for doing & showing these test.
Thank you again for telling us the temp in Celsius as well as Fahrenheit
There was a European on here the other day who thought Americans are not familiar with weather in which the temperature is negative in Fahrenheit lol. Where I live in the San Francisco Bay Area it doesn't get that cold....maybe in the mountains. But like in Chicago, which is one of our major cities (over 1 million people) it gets that cold on a regular basis 😲 I experienced it in Navy boot camp (basic training), which is located in one of the suburbs surrounding Chicago. Also in the state of Washington, it would get into the negative in Fahrenheit when the submarine was moored there, our homeport was Bangor Naval Submarine Base across Puget Sound from Seattle. 🙂
This gets discussed often and generally speaking, no one actually tells you the truth. The reason range goes down in the cold is because batteries function worse in the cold than in the warm weather. That's responsible for approximately 20-30% drop in efficiency. The car, generally speaking, is not using energy to warm up the battery unless you specifically tell it to. This is preconditioning before you get in or if you have the option, preconditioning before you go to the charger. Outside of that, unless it's well below freezing, EVs do not expend much energy at all heating the battery. The reason some people experience 30-50% drops in range are because it's extremely cold and the battery does need conditioning AND the use of cabin heat. Some people insist on using their cabin heater so they can drive without a jacket, which is going to use probably close to 6-7kWh.
I wished I had seen this episode earlier, but great episode, interesting results
The inefficiency of gas engines is what makes it possible for EVs to get even within the ballpark of a gas vehicle despite the massive difference in energy density. We measure efficiency in "energy lost to heat" so if the heat produced by a gas engine is actually desirable, that majorly changes the efficiency calculation. I don't think this is a problem with EVs that could ever be *solved* but it could be mitigated with better-insulated cars, double pane windows, etc. Cars these days are still uninsulated tin cans which can't hold a bit of heat in 70mph wind.
Hi Tommy, thanks for your videos! Just bought my Mini Cooper SE (it arrived 2 weeks ago). My first question: is it really so dramatic if i don’t park my EV in a garage over the winter months? Talking about battery life on a long term. Is it more likely to have my battery in the toilet sooner than some other EVs which have been parked in a garage over the years? I believe that not many people can afford a garage
You should perform the same test with an ICE vehicle and see how they compare
Everybody knows how they compare.
excellent idea!
You'd get zero miles per kwh in an ICE car. And also, he gets infinite miles per gallon of gas in his EV. 😁
25-50% range loss due to temperature and weather is widely reported in EVs. That's chemistry. ICE car batteries also lose energy in cold ... ever had a car not start at low temperatures?
Heck, my ICE truck lost 20-25% mpg in Wisconsin winter. You guys should have done a comparison mpg loss with your ICE fleet.
I’m not sure if you tried this, but I run mine with the climate control system in auto but I turn the AC off so the compressor is not running and I get better range and still get heat and no fogging issues.
I have a 2020 Fusion Hybrid and my range plummets when the temp drops below 34F . I can drop 100-200km in range very easily on a full tank .Three winters in and it wasn’t just a “breaking in period” as some suggested .
So that’s a combination of my ICE and battery that both drop in range or efficiency
is it a real drop in efficiency/range though, or is the car sat idling to defrost in cold temps where it would be driven immediately in warmer weather? i find that makes the difference with my 2.0 Diesel Mondeo (basically the same car as the Fusion) here in the UK.
@@petelattimer6808 I seldom let it warm up , but that’s a good question . With heated seats and steering wheel, warm-up is mainly for windows after scraping ice ( if I have any) . Honestly find the longest range happens on longer drives, not my usual 12 km commute .
Great content. Keep up the good work! You mentioned that your Mini is wearing Michelin Crossclimate 2 tires. Not sure how long you’ve had them on for, but can you comment on: (1) How they perform in the winter compared to other top tier winter tires, (2) How they perform in the summer compared to other top tier N. American all season tires, and (3) Whether you’ve noticed any difference in range between these Crossclimates compared with the original tires that the Mini came with. Thanks!
I ran them on my old mitsubishi lancer. I'd say maybe 70-75% of the winter performance. most stressful thing I did in them was drive a lightly unplowed mountain road up to ski, park, get 10-15cm fall while i was there, and reverse out of the ditch (front tires in the drainage ditch in FWD) to get back out. and they did that, albeit with some coaxing. my frame of reference is blizzaks, which i ran in winter before those
summer I didn't notice any downgrade vs my dealer all seasons, but never have purchased "nice" all seasons. not really worth it for my climate/roads
hope that helps!
That is a good percentage. It is a little more than what the gasoline cars are losing in th winter, which according to the energy(dot)gov, is at around 15%. Of course, in the case of the ICE, you have a much bigger range to start with, plus the refueling doesn't take a lot of time. I think this was the point about getting an EV with a bigger battery, in climates where is cold at least 4-5 months per year (like where I live, in Canada). But even with a small range EV you can be OK in town, now all depends on what you need.
Good balanced post. I own a KIA NIRO w/heat pump. When I turn it on, the projected range drops 10 miles, regardless of temps. This has a 'winter mode' feature which keeps the battery 'warm and happy". My last EV an IONIQ 03 was far worse.
My 2017 Leaf (30kWh ) dropped about 40% of its range due to heavy heat use on about a 50 mile commute.
Have you test ev range when it is hot? I live in Indonesia. Battery temperature conditioning (fans i think) keeping working. We Indonesian mostly parking under sunlight instead of under roof
Couple of points. A lot of energy has to go to keeping the battery warm regardless of where you set the cabin temp. Also I bet that the heat pump has resistance auxiliary heat that cuts in at very cold temperatures when the heat pump is not efficient. Resistance heat is an energy pig compared with a heat pump on a BTU/kWh basis.
He should have turned the heat down more and kept the heated seats on.
This is actually not true in most EVs. Most EVs use very little power to power the battery unless it gets extremely cold. Most cars are setup to not heat the battery unless it's well below freezing. The only exception to that is preconditioning before arriving at a charger, which is not a commonly found feature, but is becoming more commonly found. The simple reality is, these batteries get cold and don't function as efficiently when cold. The car companies have done the testing and have just decided that it's a waste of energy warming them up.
@@rossm9200 Since this test was done at around zero F (well below freezing), one would assume that the battery was heated just to prevent ice crystals in the electrolyte.
@@chrisgianettino1079 I think he wanted to show a worst case scenario. I believe that the heated seats use less energy.
Chevy Bolt at 62.5 mph with a 60 mph head wind in a thunder storm range dropped to 110 miles. Range at city speed 25 to 50 mph in summer heat range 400 miles. Range at -35F 118 miles no wiper but lights on. Defrost and heat. Highway range in summer at 62.5 mph 280 miles. Highway range in summer at 69 mph with hills (foothills of the rockies) 198 miles. At 21F range of 201 miles. Epa 259
This test and most all of the comments are on basically brand new cars with fresh batteries. Imagine the car being 3-4 years old with a "less than new battery". Many if not most people drive their cars for 8-10 years now. Imagine losing half the range on a degraded battery. Speaking of which - what would a battery replacement cost when that time comes?
You need to do the same test again, in warmer temperatures (=76f) with the AC again set at 68f. If Colorado gets into the 90s, another test is warranted. In the warmer temps there will be similar load on the battery when the outside temp was 60f (or 38f). This will give the net battery degradation due to the cold temps.
Smaller the pack the greater effect on range. Take 8kWh to heat a mach-e and thats around 9% of your range, take 8kWh to heat a mini and its 25% of your range
Did you record the range difference with climate control on and off for the warm weather test?
50 is about the coldest day time temps where I live 😂. Can you do a 75-85 test later in the year?
fun fact
once, I got stranded, because I underestimated the drop in efficiency of my '99 4runner in 0 degrees F weather
This test raises more questions than answers.
1 By charging the battery before test you warm the battery..
2 hvac use 《heater and air con)
There are many more but if you had a cold soaked car outside like driving home after a day at work.
That is when range has biggest impact in cold.
Charging car and heating battery before just reduces impact of cold on battery.
A cold soaked car will use more energy to warm battery and cabin also.
It is not a myth about baterry evs uaing more energy in cold,its a fact.
Your test would be best case and a cold soaked car would be more realistic as a use case as not everyone has indoor parking and charging at work.
Yes, there are no high-volume portable charging units like have been shown on other channels of this very network.
Yep, completely defeated the point of the test.
Remember, has to not become a target for the ev wacko’s. If you watch he shows the truth in the fist minutes, was in his garage charging and didn’t make 100%, had to go to charger first. Cold soak home charged range was less than 50!!!!!!!! In the garage, cut 5% more if parked outside!
As a European watching tfl for close to a decade, I really would appreciate if you guys also could mention the consumption numbers in SI-units on the EV-videos( kWh/100km or Wh/km). Not necessarily verbally, but at least write the conversion number in text as you say the American numbers. It seems like a good opportunity to include this since we all are trying to get our heads around converting our old way of declaring consumption (mpg or l/100km) to electrons used per distance, no matter where we live in the world😉
American numbers are useless ANYWHERE outside of the USA. in the UK we use MPG, for example, BUT the UK has a larger Gallon and, i believe, a larger pint, so a 30mpg car in the USA would be close to a 40mpg car in the UK
As a l/100km person my whole life I actually like km/kW better, as its easier to estimate total range with quick multiplication.
Maybe ire’s common for you to set your heater to 68 degrees, but I find that a bit cold. I keep mine around 75 degrees. I wonder how long it would travel under those conditions?
This video is so wrong. It’s like driving a Hummer and claiming that the Prius would never be able to get more than 30mpg. Take the worst EV (in terms of tech) and test it in the worst conditions while WE KNOW there is significantly better tech out there. Hyundai and Tesla both use heat pump to warm the vehicle which is a WORLD of a difference in terms of efficiency in cold weather. Tesla also uses heat from the motors and battery pack to warm the cabin (when driving) which makes it even more efficient.
It would be great to see a video comparing EVs in cold weather. You MUST include a Hyundai, Tesla and probably MachE (maybe F150 lightning) to the comparison.
-2Fº its not cold, I wear my Crocs in 2WD mode till -20Fº 🤠 (when its -21Fº I put them on 4WD)
We had the mini for a long time but his range in the Winter was just not cutting. I so wish they made a REX version just like his cousin the BMW i3. That would have been for me the ultimate Mini EV, especially for the USA
I believe that means there was a loss of 56% efficiency (.59 % per mile in warm weather vs 1.34 % per mile in cold weather; cold weather driving uses 2.27 times as much energy; cold weather range is 44% that of warm weather range).
would be cool to see a comparison of a preconditioned battery in 1° weather
Coming off a fast charger and having been plugged in overnight plus going highways speeds the battery was probably conditioned. Cold batteries usually loose close to 50%
Only if there was a way to get a reading of where the overall charge goes. Seeing the distance change with the heat on and off makes me think a significant amount of charge on the first run went to heating the cab 67 degrees compared to only 8 degrees on the second run. Crazy! Thanks for the info!
My Ford Mach E shows how the energy was used. It segments usage into climate use, driving, accessories, and exterior temp. I find this very useful .
@@irfanhusein1445 That is slick and I think should be standard.
how long before EV's offer an optional small diesel heater for cold weather customers? Seems it would greatly increase range.
For us metric ppl, it was a 100km loop at -17C and +15C.
The EVs without battery heating suffer a lot in sub freezing conditions. It looks like it consumed 1about an extra 8kw in the cold weather for 100km, which is in line with what I've seen.
The issue with looking at % battery is that EVs have a wide variety of sizes - on an 77kw battery car the difference will be around 10% between the 2 trips, leaving people to believe it's not that big of a difference, even though the actual consumption delta is the same. Looking at distance/kw should be the only comparison made to give people a better idea of the drop in efficiency.
Thanks for converting to Celsius!
Heat Pumps are not very efficient at low temps like that. Most heat pumps we install in commercial buildings have aux heat that kicks on at around 20 deg. I’d bet the Mini does the same, otherwise the heater would be blowing lukewarm (if that…)
A little google search shows it gets way colder than -1 In Colorado
Actually, I take my Dog to the beach down to 5 degrees farenheit. The experience at 4 degrees was clearly too chilly for him.
Good to know it never gets cold in Colorado.
That’s also with the heat pump which is higher efficiency correct?
Battery size makes a big difference. You would not see the same percentage difference on a larger Battery vehicle with the same Kw/mile ........ I'd like to see the same test done on a vehicle with a larger battery and near same Kw/mile efficiency.
Does the mini have an active BMS or is it like the leaf in which the battery is just air cooled?
Not an insignificant difference. But let's not forget this is not much worse than gas engines. 20-25% drop off in mileage due to temperature and winter-blend.
Heated seats can help people avoid using the heater.
I wanted the mini but the range was just to small (I have a 80 mile commute every day). I love my id4 and feel confident that I made the right decision. The AWD has plenty of get up and go :)
With that kind of commute the smart decision for you would’ve been a fuel efficient gasoline vehicle. But a sucker is born every minute.
@@MegaTechpc I had a fuel efficient gas car (Kia niro 50mpg). What I wanted was a fun fast electric car with lots of toys. I got exactly what I wanted. That said I wish it was faster. 0 to 60 in 5.8 just does not seem as fast as it use to. :)
Curious how big of a difference turning off the heater makes. I know the 99% would never consider this and the thougt itself is offensive to some. I just run steering wheel/seat warmer in my Bolt. Only adjust if the windows fog. Then i crack my window 😄. Curious how many mi/kwh im saving with my suffering.
at that temp you are not driving without a heater.
using air conditioning is not a good idea if you are going for a run in the mountains during the winter to give just one example of why you may not want to turn it on.
Did you run the heater same on both runs? If no, then time to redo the test.
Easy fix would be 300mi range at 0 degrees not in whatever bay area CA temps
For a car that small, they simply need to find a way to add more battery to make this car practical. They need to get it up to normally 170-200 miles of range so that it's more like 120 miles on a cold day. 62 miles of range is simply unacceptable. They should either add a gas range extender, like what BMW did or shove batteries in the hood area. Spending $30K on a car for it to only go 62 miles is nuts.
I would respectfully disagree. For a commuting car it is ideal and actually entertaining to drive (unlike our son’s leaf). My wife unplugs it in the morning, drives thoughtlessly to work, errands, groceries, etc - and then repeats the same process the next day. Even in winter.
We have lots of other vehicles for trips or towing, but since 95% of my wife’s driving is local she now buys 95% less fuel. And the wear&tear on all the other vehicles drop.
Until we see some kind of big leap in battery technology I think the only answer is for even longer range evs. I feel like 400+ miles is sort of the sweet spot when competing with ICE vehicles. Let's say in the worst case scenario you lose 150 miles of range during the winter you still got 250 or so to work with. I currently have a plug-in hybrid that I am very happy with but it does make me want a full EV sooner than later.
Í'm wonder if a plug-in hybrid will run in electric mode if you turn on the cabin heater. If not then you lose the reason the buy it you live in a cold climate.
Depends on the model. Some PHEVs have a dedicated resistive heater while others use engine heat to heat the cabin. The Volt used both below 15F, but that was easily inhibited. The 8,000 watt resistive heater was more than enough to heat the cabin in a matter of minutes.
I wonder how much is the loss when comparing gas cars with the same gas grade and similar temperatures? I can imagine a loss but not at 26%.
We saw a 20 -25% drop in MPG with a Malibu in those conditions. But that was with shorter trips, running errands, where the engine had a difficult time warming up during drives.
These longer highway trips would no doubt improve on that, as everything had a chance to warm and stabilize.
Given how long it's been since test the middle that were released during the times the claims were first made
Did this replace the Jeep?
Imagine if just 10% of vehicles were electric how long you’d wait just to start charging.
I can imagine that. Just think of how long you would have to what for gas if we had the same number of gas stations that we had in 1955. Supply tends to keep up with demand. That is the beauty of a capitalist society.
@@justinchantnicki523 you’re right but it seems a lot is being done to push electric cars yet very little is being done to improve the power grid and power supply. Simply installing more chargers will not be enough. We have to satisfy the power demands as well. I’m not saying it can’t or won’t be done but it seems we are putting the cart before the horse.
5:43 What is "three peak snow rated"? Did you mean Three Peak Mountain Snowflake rated? 😁
So around a 36% loss in very cold temperatures vs a warm summer day, I don't think that's too bad. Still kind of sucks though.
This tracks with my experiences too.
"speed limit is 75, I'm gonna set the cruise at 70"
Why? The real world test would be 5-10mph over the speed limit not 5mph under
4:19 Negative two degrees Fahrenheit is colder than an Eskimo’s testicles.
Great video, but one question, why not drive at least 75mph or the posted speed limit? I don't know about most of you but I have a hard time only driving the speed limit.
Be sure to inform the highway patrol lol
curious to see what the impact is on a "regular" cold day like 30 degrees rather than zero
We see that often. With the heat pump it's really a non event with those warmer temperatures. 3.7 mi/kWh (106 miles) in the Mini is common, with all seasons tires, cabin heat set between 68 -70F. We notice a larger impact with wet roads over use of cabin heat, sometimes dropping down to 3.5 mi/kWh (101 miles) during a rain storm and warmer temperatures.
This isn't highway driving, more of a mix... leaning towards city / back road driving.
Does Tommy still have his jeep?
This is why I won’t buy a mini-range. Sad. But I need 100 miles of range in cold weather.
Here is the problem with that particular ev 70 miles at near 100% so most people will charge to 80% as manufacturer recommends so effectively you have a winter range of around 56 miles, most people are not going to spend additional time charging at 3kw to get to 100%
There's no way to stop a charge at 80% or 90%. The Mini only charges to 100%.
I haven't seen any recommendations to charge to 80% in the 2022 manual. But the general consensus with NMC chemistry is to keep the battery at 80 or 90% for longer sits. (ie: over a day or longer without driving).
Either way, 8 - 10 year / 100,000-150,000 mile battery warranties should consider worse case battery care. With techniques to maximize that beyond warranty limits.
I wonder if you keep the internal climate to about 60 and have the seat warmer on . Would that be more efficient than having the heat pump running?
Heat pumps aren’t very efficient below 30•
have you tried keeping windows demisted with a heated seat?
I didn’t mean to turn off completely but lower instead.
We keep our house at 60 in the winter.
geothermal heat pump is by far the most efficient way to warm a building regardless of temperature, assuming that you're getting your heat from deep underground (not just 10 ft/3 m). 🙂
Maybe a follow up sometime in the hot summer time where the A/C has to run all the time to keep the climate control at 68°F?
What is the optimum temperature then??
+50*C
Around 70F these vehicles usually peak. Not associated with just battery temperatures, but dry roads, no cabin HVAC, and less dense air. 80F and above the air conditioner may be used for the cabin and/or battery cooling, which will normally hit the range a bit.
At least from our experience.
Noticeable difference; the warm loop had a speed.avg of 39.3, did this help account for some difference? or was the cold test performed similar as you mentioned 70 during the test?
both cold and warm loops average speed was 39.3 mph
And yet people still want to argue that we don't know what we are talking about with efficiency and range in the winter. Videos like this are important to level set expectations.
I see is almost daily a new EV owner in one of the FB groups complaining about significant range loss. Owners of EV's in cold climates know, but the propaganda and marketing out there as people believing all sorts of nonsense. People get really disappointed and upset when they discover the truth first hand.
Just a matter of adjusting our expectations and using this information wisely when we choose to buy an EV. Get one that will have the range you need even during the cold. That kind of range loss in the Mini would make it borderline unusable for some people during the winter. If you plan a road trip for the holidays during the winter all of this needs to be taken into consideration.
The other piece not touched in this specific video is how much slower the EV's charge during the winter. And the need to precondition the battery to prevent coldgating. Good video. Out of Spec Reviews has been hitting this all pretty hard also. Glad to see some reality being reported and the effort to push the technology forward and make things better.
You guys are the best!
minus 18 C is not that bad for canada. minus 30 we get that alot and about 3 weeks or more of minus 40
I would suggest that the video editor post equivalents: -2°F=-19°C.
Less than 2 minutes in and your not turning on the heated seat?? The average person would not do that. That's why EVs have heated seats so that the passenger uses it to get warm rather than using the air flow to heat the cabin
This is completely misleading; 26% loss is relative to your battery size. Since the heat pump draws a constant rate regardless of battery size you will see a larger loss for the tiny battery you have there. Go do the same test in a Silverado EV this year and see what you get with a 200 kWh battery. You should have compared kWh loss due to the heat pump for this to be relevant.
Gasoline powered vehicles also lose efficiency in the winter
By way of comparison, I get a 10% reduction in fuel economy when temperatures are sub-zero on a relatively short journey for a diesel engined car. It's important to realise there is an impact on all vehicles when temperatures drop.
That is a 30% drop in range (cold vs warm). Too bad you couldn't get that battery pack 3x the size..you're range even during cold weather would be 200 miles (or more).
I'm from Minnesota, -2 happens all the time, but if anyone says that isn't cold, they're lying.
You spent lots of money on a car that only goes 70 miles in cold weather? I can’t believe they sell them and shocked anyone would buy one..
I'm shocked that you are outside in just a T-shirt in 60 degree F weather. Where I live, it is 62 deg F today. Even with a heavy long-sleeve shirt and a jacket, I am still cold. I had my seat heater going almost the full time when I drove to and from the store. Brrr