S5 is my favorite season, and I like pretty much every episode from it. That of course includes this one. But then, I like the mystery box aspect, I straight up like the whole "take a monster from folklore and explain it with aliens" aspect, and I don't have a problem with the whole "taking a creature from earth and making it a monster" idea. I also don't expect my shows to completely switch up their formula for every episode, and am fine with them repeating from time to time. Basically, I'm of the complete opposite opinion as this guy. So why do I watch him? I don't know. Maybe it's refreshing to hear a different opinion to your own.
Thankyou! I've been trying to explain that about Amy and Rory for years. The amount of debates I've gotten in, when people include Amy and Clara, as "being in love with the doctor" It's clear Amy adores Rory, they're just on slightly different pages at this point as to what they both want in life. This is literally Amy's dream, ever since she was a little girl. All of it, the doctor, the magic box, the running away, the adventure. When he turns up the night before her wedding, you cant blame a girl for thinking it's some kind of sign.
To me, he's the best male companion of current Who. He has a decent amount of character growth and really gets to show his real self, which is a genuinely decent person.
About the cracks: The thing about a crack is that it's somewhat chaotic. It's nearly impossible to predict what it will look like, and those that work with cracky materials (masonry, tiles, jewelers) have to take care so the crack breaks where they want it to. So it makes sense that a jagged crack in the fabric of space and time might not have entirely predictable and consistent properties.
About the episode: Yeah, I remembered it. Perhaps because the only show I am heavily immersed in is _Buffy,_ so I remember vampires. I am usually okay with giving folklore a science-y explanation, like why vampires don't appear in mirrors. I like it less when they do it to religious lore, even when (as is usual) it's not my religion.
I thought this one was quite entertaining. The villain was somewhat forgettable but as you mentioned great chemistry among the three and some really good humor. Matt Smith was in top form.
Anyone else a bit annoyed at Amy not having to apologise for attempting to cheat on Rory? It's very quickly accepted and forgiven by Rory and the Doctor without her even saying a word.
ULOIRAR I feel like the cheating and Amy DIRECTLY flirting with the doctor (I believe some flirting happens in front of Rory too) should’ve been dealt with a lot better. Like at least Amy saying ‘oh we had a talk about what happened and I’m not going to flirt with you anymore. It makes Rory upset’ to the Doctor would’ve been a hell of a lot better then it all just being swept under the rug. Like sure, Amy kinda grew out of it in the later seasons. But her cheating and playfully flirting was just really uncalled for especially when she was going to MARRY RORY. Sorry that just gets under my skin.
@@8littleclouds895 What cheating? You keep saying "the cheating" and "her cheating" but as far as I recall she never actually cheated, at least not on screen. I don't remember if there was any confirmation of off-screen cheating. I don't think it was necessary to see/hear Amy apologise for trying to cheat or flirt. In an ideal world then yes she would but that's not who she is. That's the character that had been set up and Rory knew that, accepted that and still loved her anyway, even if he didn't particularly enjoy her flirting. Flirting is a part of who she is, I mean, just look at her job as a kissagram. Is it ideal, then no, especially for Rory, but it is who she was at that time.
Or for sexually assaulting the Doctor. I'd also _like_ to think that they dealt with it off-screen... but it's not something Moffat or any other official writer ever dealt with, which they really ought to have given the magnitude of the offence. Exhibit A of Moffat's antediluvian social sensibilities (as much as I love most of his writing) manifesting in the earlier parts of his run.
Did 11 get posher between series? In his first episode he sounds like Jamie T but by the end of series 7 he talks and dresses like he's in the Bullingdon Club
I don't actually mind the whole "folklore creature actually an alien" thing as much as you, but I do remember being disappointed that the "vampires" in this one were just fish people, because I really like vampires. It just would've been fun if they had an alien that fit more, like you said.
Don't you think having fish-like beings as vampires is at least a big creative? Plus I really like the design, the bony arms, the frill, the black body with the blue head, it makes them look like they're wearing a black evil queen dress.
Helen McCrory as the new master or doctor please! This story is kinda underrated IMO, nothing special but although it’s forgettable it’s really enjoyable and fun
This is the Episode of s5 that was most memorable to me, I would even have concidred it one of my favourites. This might be influenced by me being a vampire obsessed pre-teen who hasn't seen the concept of science fiction Vampires bevore
I thought Helen McCrory was a joy to watch in this one. I want to see her cast again sometime as a villain who... well, who doesn't turn out to be a suicidal alien fish at the end.
To me the most memorable part of the episode is after they get to where they are going and the doctor is trying to figure out what time they are in cause he doesn't want to run into Casanova cause he owes him a chicken cause of a bet
People hate rose for her treatment of her boyfriend but honestly Amy is not too far off and it’s so evident in this story. Throughout their era she always just brushes Rory off as a silly kid and she never truly shows she loves him until it’s too late or until they’re almost dead.
Jay Stevens id agree but the thing is, she shows she does care, unlike rose who literally lets mickey go with no sense of regret, she basically gave up on him, unlike amy, who is always in love with rory, they just have a dominant submissive dynamic. one that isn’t as “clean cut” as most relationships on tv
Your explanation of the whole excitement element regarding the whole Rory/Amy/Doctor suddenly made me feel much better about the whole episode. Thank you. :)
"Meanwhile in the TARDIS pt 2" is good to watch before "Vampires of Venice". In its 3+ minutes it bridges this and the previous episode together and then some. ua-cam.com/video/005hhOPMK4U/v-deo.html Amy has been obsessed with The Doctor since she was eight AND made Rory dress up as him. She'd been trying to impress him and downplay her past doings throughout Eleventh Hour in an effor to appear normal & appealing (for instance it coming out that she drew cartoons of The Doctor "Shut up Jeff...". Therefore a idea of a fling before her marriage wasn't necessarily from out of the blue. The short ends with The Doctor is determined to bring Rory on. She gets a good look at all the companions who preceded them, so we also know that Amy is aware that they are two of a long line of folks. The point of the Venice trip is for a Wedding gift (or so he says) while establishing Rory & The Doctor's initial dynamic. Rory injects a practical view into the mad adventures and how danger has become common in Amy's life in the TARDIS (all to be worked out next in Amy's Choice). Probably this was forgettable because those factors were more important than the setting itself, which served more of a tool for the trio with more hints about The Silence and the cracks.
Bravo! I wish all sorts of commentators- DW related and otherwise- were as honest. It is completely understandable that we overlook something we usually don't like because a piece is so strong or touching or funny in some other way. But I have seen people tie themselves into pretzels trying to explain why the trope they have railed against didn't really happen because they want to give a positive review. Foolish consistency etc. Good for you!
This is a rare occasion where the classic literature monster, already exists in the doctor who universe. Especially during the whole post time war period bringing back the vampires would've been interesting.
With the exception of the beast were are aliens that borrow the iconography of famous Monsters. Doctor who has set up Vampires as a real thing within the universe and have a long history with the timelords.
why does he get annoyed that they're aliens not monsters (again) like the werwolf (season 2) and the witches (season 3) etc, its a sci fi show, obviously its not going to be supernartual monsters. it is a show about aliens
I'm surprised the Doctor didn't offer to find a new home for the vampire fish seeing as Tennant's incarnation said that every other story... even to the Daleks and Cybermen.
To me that reads as 11 dropping the pretense. My read on 10 was that he only really did that to keep his conscience clear in a fairly superficial way (not a criticism, just me read on the character).
@@CouncilofGeeks Ok, cool idea. The main reason I even noticed the differences between the two is because I'm doing my own binge of Doctor Who content (given world events) and got to this episode and Amy's Choice today.
In the grand scheme of things, the cracks were meant for the time lords to travel through from their bubble universe to the real one if the doctor said his name in Time of the Doctor
I remember I was still, at this point, struggling to connect with the TARDIS team, but found Helen McCrory & Alex Price very compelling in this episode - despite the material they were given - but I'm in love with Helen McCrory, so that's perhaps not surprising. I got sucked in to the concept of vampyres turning out to be fish people at the time as well, I thought it was so cool and out-of-the-box. How naiive and easily taken in I was. That aside, I actually enjoy this episode a lot more than around half(?) of series 7. Because I think it's a great "kick-backer"; not because I think it's any good.
I hate the trope of this episode of the alien refusing the doctor when she could easily accept. Also at this point, missing planets and cracks in time blend together for me
Here's a fun fact: The actor who plays her son in this episode originated the role of Draco Malfoy in the Cursed Child on the West End and on Broadway. So basically you have Narcissa and Draco playing mother and son.
you'll probably find a lot of harry potter or game of thrones guest stars appear in doctor who, most british/scottish/welsh/irish actors have been in either shows as far as my knowledge of GoT goes at least)
It is quite average but I have always liked it overall. The chemistry between them all is fantastic. I remember not liking Rory when I first watched it but knowing where it went and what he became now when I watch it I love how detailed Amy and Rory whole relationship is. Good episode. Just not great. Also, no issue with the vampires as fish people. It's cool idea and I also love the perception filter idea.
U think these fish people are bad, hav u seen the 2nd doctor episode ‘the underwater menace’?? If u want vampires hav u seen the 4th doctor story ‘state of decay’?
I actually really liked this episode. The setting was really nice, and i loved the dynamic between Amy and Rory. I also really like the design of the vampire teeth.
The cracks in time being used to pass a thing from one place to another also happened in the Time of the Doctor -- in that case it was just a message though, and it was after the whole Series 5 arc had been resolved. So who knows if the rules changed after that, right?
Another time the Cracks are used to travel is to bring the Time Lords back (albeit not bringing them back but if they did they would come through there)
The only thing I remember from this episode is the line you alluded to: "They're not vampires; they're fish from space!" And that's solely because a friend liked to quote it if we ever claimed the Doctor fought vampires.
Wow, you really struggled to talk about the actual episode in this review. If I remember correctly, one thing that always bugged me was that the vampire home seemed like it was in the city, yet the canal part looked more like the countryside. Were they supposed to be the same place or is my memory glitchy? I'm glad you came around to Amy not actually being in love with the Doctor. I often thought commenters who said she loved him were thinking too much of the past companions and not seeing the wider picture around Amy. She wanted sex and that experience with him for sure but it wasn't love. You have to remember this was right after a couple of adventures, so excitement and adrenalin would be running high - clear thinking not so much. You also have to take into account that the Doctor had been part of her life since a young age, she would have thought about him a hell of a lot and been 'forced' to put all that aside. Then he's suddenly there, in front of her, real and able to give her all these adventures she craved so much. To her it would almost be an actual dream come true.
Personally I would if I had to copy an animal on earth to make vampire and it had to be aquatic. I'd pick some that looked like an eel or remorma. Maybe those freaky things that swim up dudes well you know. In the amzone
the best parts of this episode had little to nothing to do with the monsters. bit sad you made no mention of the father character they teamed up with for the first half
I adore this episode. Honestly have to disagree with the negative side of your entire review. I’m actually surprised you think it’s forgettable, compared to say Amy’s choice or the Hungry Earth which is possibly the weakest imo. But I guess we all can’t like the same thing. I just wouldn’t say it’s a fact it’s forgettable, that’s an opinion.
| agree on just how forgettable this episode is. Earlier this year I did a complete re-watch of series 1-10, and this was the only episode of series 5 that I hadn't seen since the day it aired. I hadn't deliberately avoided it, I'd never done a series 5 re-watch before (and just skipped VoV), it had just never even occurred t me at any point to re-visit it, whereas it had occurred to me, at various points, to re-watch every other individual episode of series 5, independently of each other. I still often tend to forget it, even having done the re-watch. I keep having it in my head that Amy's Choice comes straight after Flesh and Stone, and I have to remind myself "no wait, there's VoV". After seeing your review of the Angels two-parted last week, my immediate thought was "Amy's choice next week", took me a while to remember that Vampires was first, but I still forgot again and was surprised when this video popped up! Even though it's only a few months since I did the re-watch I already struggle to remember the episode that clearly! Yet I don't recall it being that bad, either. There are other, much worse episodes which I recall much better.
I think my biggest problem with Amy “jumping The Doctor’s bones” as you say, is how nonconsensual that encounter is. He clearly doesn’t want what she does, yet she keeps pushing for it, and as a result it leaves that episode with a bit of a sour taste in the mouth.
I vaguely recall that was a thing, now that I see the title. I'm kind of with you on the folklore monsters, though. Aliens that look like animals is one thing- show me a franchise where that doesn't happen- but aliens that are storybook monsters that make little sense as a species? Too much.
I think the point is that he's noticed the effect first upon Amy, and then himself, and connected this with the Doctor. Who is also a mythical figure from his fiancee's childhood who he no doubt heard about before. IMO it makes a nice contrast to have him react differently, more grounded and critical.
I didn’t care for the doctor not putting him in his place non of the classic doctors would have tolerated that especially 1 and 6. He should have Channeled Hartnell and Colin to tell him off. And if needed smacked him or shove his finger in his chest and remind him who’s boss.
@@TheDixieBassMan - Would being "boss" make Rory's observation any less true? If the Doctor's witty response to a perceived unflattering remark is physical provocation, I would suspect roid-rage or his hormones acting up. YMMV
Popo Bawa The Doctor certainly has paired a stinging retort with a finger poke on more then one occasion. if Rory had thrown the first punch the doctor would have made a fool of him.don’t forget he easily out fenced two trained knights in the time warrior and they called him the finest swordsman they’ed ever seen.Also there were many times the first and 3 doctor willingly whooped some ass like the robot clone in the space museum or when he used venation Akido to escape the castle of irongrod in the time warrior. Couple that with Rory being a hyper emotional beta geek and the doctor would have tied him up in knots. The Doctor isn’t responsible for people’s stupidity and more often then not he helps people improve for example the brigadier in the 5 doctors knocks the master out to protect the doctors and everyone else even though the master has a laser capable of killing anyone there.
@@TheDixieBassMan The earlier Doctors hadn't been through Journey's End when Davros makes a similar point in a more devastating way. Plus, that was compounded by the almost immediate loss of Donna. The Doctor has heard a version of this before and although he doesn't like it I think he has come to recognise the truth of it.
I think I liked this episode better than you did, but I have to admit that it's ultimately largely forgettable, mostly because the plot is so bog-standard, and the personalities and characterization of the guest cast basically non-existent. I do think it has some great Doctor-Rory banter, and I love the bit where the Doctor forgets he doesn't have the psychic paper with him and tries to use his old library card--with Hartnell's picture on it.
I think the most forgettable episode of series 5 is actually Amy’s Choice. Everything about that episode from the acting to the rural setting to the basic plot, the villain/threat, is just boring and not at all rewatchable. And come on, Rory’s hair is just... no. I have always on some level intensely disliked Rory, more for Moffat’s idiotic cliches and writing techniques than the actor however. By comparison, just imo, VoV is a lot more aesthetically pleasing, the plot at least doesn’t bore me to death like Amy’s Choice. Plus I really like Helen McCrory. I also really don’t care for the killer alien old people as villains, the boring English countryside villages that I generally try to avoid at all costs, Rory dying AGAIN (so repetitive), etc etc. The Dream Lord is okay, I guess, but other than that it’s a very bland episode. Not that VoV is stellar, it isn’t. But it is preferable to Amy’s Choice to me. Sorry for the rant xoxo
Mayo Tango131 And you’re welcome to your own opinion, of course. Series 11 as a whole is one of the weaker seasons, and series 5 is probably Matt Smith’s best.
Mayo Tango131 Nice one boyo. Sink to petty insults. I don’t really care what you think about Rory. I don’t like him. Get over it, and stop trying to bait people into subjective arguments on trivial matters like a TV show. Jesus Christ.
Maybe there's a few hidden Silence in this episode, and that's why it's so forgettable
great theory
S5 is my favorite season, and I like pretty much every episode from it. That of course includes this one.
But then, I like the mystery box aspect, I straight up like the whole "take a monster from folklore and explain it with aliens" aspect, and I don't have a problem with the whole "taking a creature from earth and making it a monster" idea. I also don't expect my shows to completely switch up their formula for every episode, and am fine with them repeating from time to time. Basically, I'm of the complete opposite opinion as this guy.
So why do I watch him? I don't know. Maybe it's refreshing to hear a different opinion to your own.
Same. I could have completely written this comment, myself. :)
Same I totally agree, he does get a bit repetitive with his dislikes but somehow I still like to watch the videos.
Thankyou! I've been trying to explain that about Amy and Rory for years. The amount of debates I've gotten in, when people include Amy and Clara, as "being in love with the doctor"
It's clear Amy adores Rory, they're just on slightly different pages at this point as to what they both want in life. This is literally Amy's dream, ever since she was a little girl. All of it, the doctor, the magic box, the running away, the adventure. When he turns up the night before her wedding, you cant blame a girl for thinking it's some kind of sign.
When this series started, i was afraid rory was going to be mickey 2.0, but I actually liked him. Especially in a good man goes to war.
To me, he's the best male companion of current Who. He has a decent amount of character growth and really gets to show his real self, which is a genuinely decent person.
He is a modern Darrin Stevens.
@@mayotango1317 OMG Jesus, you're right XD XD XD
There already were Vampires in the Fourth Doctor story "State of Decay". That's why they made it something different here.
I love that episode. Real vampires as well! 👍 Also Romana! Great episode!
That's what I was going to say. I love all the stuff with the Great Vampires vs the Time Lords with the bowships. :)
State of Decay is a lot like those old Hammer horror films.
But with Adric.
but state of decay did it properly, these were ACTUAL vampires and were already in time lord lore as well as human
It makes you wonder.. what’s so bad it doesn’t mind you thinking it’s a vampire?
I think the folk lore creatures really being aliens thing is good tho, it makes sense for where we get these ideas from.
I'm kinda shocked that you didn't touch on Guido, his daughter, his own sacrifice (WE. ARE. VENETIAN!). Sweet but sad.
About the cracks: The thing about a crack is that it's somewhat chaotic. It's nearly impossible to predict what it will look like, and those that work with cracky materials (masonry, tiles, jewelers) have to take care so the crack breaks where they want it to.
So it makes sense that a jagged crack in the fabric of space and time might not have entirely predictable and consistent properties.
About the episode: Yeah, I remembered it. Perhaps because the only show I am heavily immersed in is _Buffy,_ so I remember vampires.
I am usually okay with giving folklore a science-y explanation, like why vampires don't appear in mirrors. I like it less when they do it to religious lore, even when (as is usual) it's not my religion.
I liked the interactions between The Doctor & the Countessa.
The best part of the episode is the setup of Rory which plays off nicely in future series
I thought this one was quite entertaining. The villain was somewhat forgettable but as you mentioned great chemistry among the three and some really good humor. Matt Smith was in top form.
The Doctor comes out of a stripper cake in this one, doesn't he?
Jack Roche Yep
This episode is notable because it made Spongebob Squarepants canon to the whoniverse
Connor Carraway I’m sorry WHAT? EXPLAIN
Rewatch is disturbing when I realize Amy is going to be his mother-in-law. Mrs. Robinson anyone?
she's also his stepmother-in-law
Elizabeth Moore ?
@@tcshack701 Amy married Henry VIII briefly
Rory Williams, the real main companion of the Eleventh Doctor.
Anyone else a bit annoyed at Amy not having to apologise for attempting to cheat on Rory? It's very quickly accepted and forgiven by Rory and the Doctor without her even saying a word.
ULOIRAR I feel like the cheating and Amy DIRECTLY flirting with the doctor (I believe some flirting happens in front of Rory too) should’ve been dealt with a lot better. Like at least Amy saying ‘oh we had a talk about what happened and I’m not going to flirt with you anymore. It makes Rory upset’ to the Doctor would’ve been a hell of a lot better then it all just being swept under the rug. Like sure, Amy kinda grew out of it in the later seasons. But her cheating and playfully flirting was just really uncalled for especially when she was going to MARRY RORY.
Sorry that just gets under my skin.
I like to think that happened off screen!
@@8littleclouds895 What cheating? You keep saying "the cheating" and "her cheating" but as far as I recall she never actually cheated, at least not on screen. I don't remember if there was any confirmation of off-screen cheating.
I don't think it was necessary to see/hear Amy apologise for trying to cheat or flirt. In an ideal world then yes she would but that's not who she is. That's the character that had been set up and Rory knew that, accepted that and still loved her anyway, even if he didn't particularly enjoy her flirting. Flirting is a part of who she is, I mean, just look at her job as a kissagram. Is it ideal, then no, especially for Rory, but it is who she was at that time.
Or for sexually assaulting the Doctor.
I'd also _like_ to think that they dealt with it off-screen... but it's not something Moffat or any other official writer ever dealt with, which they really ought to have given the magnitude of the offence. Exhibit A of Moffat's antediluvian social sensibilities (as much as I love most of his writing) manifesting in the earlier parts of his run.
@@AstraIVagabond There was no sexual assault, so they didn't need to deal with it.
Did 11 get posher between series? In his first episode he sounds like Jamie T but by the end of series 7 he talks and dresses like he's in the Bullingdon Club
I don't actually mind the whole "folklore creature actually an alien" thing as much as you, but I do remember being disappointed that the "vampires" in this one were just fish people, because I really like vampires. It just would've been fun if they had an alien that fit more, like you said.
I probably need to see both stories together but I'm pretty sure "Curse of Fenric" does vampyres far better.
'Curse of Fenric' does EVERYTHING better! ;) (I'm mostly kidding, though -- it's just my fave story, so I had to say that)
much better, but Fenric was still vampires and the first evil as well, the doctor (7th this time) had fought it many times before
@@NicoleM_radiantbaby I love it too. not as much as battlefield though
I've a soft spot for fun throwaway episodes much like Tooth And Claw, Shakespeare Code, Partners In Crime the lighthearted approach is endearing.
Don't you think having fish-like beings as vampires is at least a big creative? Plus I really like the design, the bony arms, the frill, the black body with the blue head, it makes them look like they're wearing a black evil queen dress.
"Werewolves are actually hamster people". Was that creative?
@@FortoFight It's not the same and you know it
Helen McCrory as the new master or doctor please!
This story is kinda underrated IMO, nothing special but although it’s forgettable it’s really enjoyable and fun
I want a previous Doctor to play the Master.
This is the Episode of s5 that was most memorable to me, I would even have concidred it one of my favourites. This might be influenced by me being a vampire obsessed pre-teen who hasn't seen the concept of science fiction Vampires bevore
I thought Helen McCrory was a joy to watch in this one. I want to see her cast again sometime as a villain who... well, who doesn't turn out to be a suicidal alien fish at the end.
Toby Whithouse is such an underrated writer imo
Wilo Polis hes my favorite non-show runner :)
To me the most memorable part of the episode is after they get to where they are going and the doctor is trying to figure out what time they are in cause he doesn't want to run into Casanova cause he owes him a chicken cause of a bet
I always assumed that was a sly crack on Tennant and Davies.
Popo Bawa Imagine if Davies’ Casanova was a part of the Whoniverse...
People hate rose for her treatment of her boyfriend but honestly Amy is not too far off and it’s so evident in this story. Throughout their era she always just brushes Rory off as a silly kid and she never truly shows she loves him until it’s too late or until they’re almost dead.
Jay Stevens id agree but the thing is, she shows she does care, unlike rose who literally lets mickey go with no sense of regret, she basically gave up on him, unlike amy, who is always in love with rory, they just have a dominant submissive dynamic. one that isn’t as “clean cut” as most relationships on tv
Your explanation of the whole excitement element regarding the whole Rory/Amy/Doctor suddenly made me feel much better about the whole episode. Thank you. :)
Fang you for covering this episode xD
"Meanwhile in the TARDIS pt 2" is good to watch before "Vampires of Venice". In its 3+ minutes it bridges this and the previous episode together and then some.
ua-cam.com/video/005hhOPMK4U/v-deo.html
Amy has been obsessed with The Doctor since she was eight AND made Rory dress up as him. She'd been trying to impress him and downplay her past doings throughout Eleventh Hour in an effor to appear normal & appealing (for instance it coming out that she drew cartoons of The Doctor "Shut up Jeff...".
Therefore a idea of a fling before her marriage wasn't necessarily from out of the blue.
The short ends with The Doctor is determined to bring Rory on. She gets a good look at all the companions who preceded them, so we also know that Amy is aware that they are two of a long line of folks.
The point of the Venice trip is for a Wedding gift (or so he says) while establishing Rory & The Doctor's initial dynamic. Rory injects a practical view into the mad adventures and how danger has become common in Amy's life in the TARDIS (all to be worked out next in Amy's Choice).
Probably this was forgettable because those factors were more important than the setting itself, which served more of a tool for the trio with more hints about The Silence and the cracks.
I love rory! Hes so overlooked but he's so loveable.
Bravo! I wish all sorts of commentators- DW related and otherwise- were as honest. It is completely understandable that we overlook something we usually don't like because a piece is so strong or touching or funny in some other way. But I have seen people tie themselves into pretzels trying to explain why the trope they have railed against didn't really happen because they want to give a positive review. Foolish consistency etc. Good for you!
This is a rare occasion where the classic literature monster, already exists in the doctor who universe. Especially during the whole post time war period bringing back the vampires would've been interesting.
What about ghosts, werewolf, Satan, witch in the RTD era?
With the exception of the beast were are aliens that borrow the iconography of famous Monsters. Doctor who has set up Vampires as a real thing within the universe and have a long history with the timelords.
I mostly remember Rory calling the alien fish vampire "SpongeBob" and fighting him with a broom (i loved this scene)
why does he get annoyed that they're aliens not monsters (again) like the werwolf (season 2) and the witches (season 3) etc, its a sci fi show, obviously its not going to be supernartual monsters. it is a show about aliens
I'm surprised the Doctor didn't offer to find a new home for the vampire fish seeing as Tennant's incarnation said that every other story... even to the Daleks and Cybermen.
To me that reads as 11 dropping the pretense. My read on 10 was that he only really did that to keep his conscience clear in a fairly superficial way (not a criticism, just me read on the character).
@@CouncilofGeeks Ok, cool idea. The main reason I even noticed the differences between the two is because I'm doing my own binge of Doctor Who content (given world events) and got to this episode and Amy's Choice today.
In the grand scheme of things, the cracks were meant for the time lords to travel through from their bubble universe to the real one if the doctor said his name in Time of the Doctor
I remember I was still, at this point, struggling to connect with the TARDIS team, but found Helen McCrory & Alex Price very compelling in this episode - despite the material they were given - but I'm in love with Helen McCrory, so that's perhaps not surprising.
I got sucked in to the concept of vampyres turning out to be fish people at the time as well, I thought it was so cool and out-of-the-box. How naiive and easily taken in I was.
That aside, I actually enjoy this episode a lot more than around half(?) of series 7. Because I think it's a great "kick-backer"; not because I think it's any good.
Well before a werewolf is a alien like Satan and ghosts.
When you arrive so early it's 360p and you can't change the playback speed
Nice
john skin Were you trying to?? And if so, why?
I hate the trope of this episode of the alien refusing the doctor when she could easily accept. Also at this point, missing planets and cracks in time blend together for me
I'm surprised you didn't mention the main villain was played by someone in Harry Potter
I had to look that one up, I didn't recognize her at all
Here's a fun fact: The actor who plays her son in this episode originated the role of Draco Malfoy in the Cursed Child on the West End and on Broadway. So basically you have Narcissa and Draco playing mother and son.
you'll probably find a lot of harry potter or game of thrones guest stars appear in doctor who, most british/scottish/welsh/irish actors have been in either shows as far as my knowledge of GoT goes at least)
It is quite average but I have always liked it overall. The chemistry between them all is fantastic. I remember not liking Rory when I first watched it but knowing where it went and what he became now when I watch it I love how detailed Amy and Rory whole relationship is. Good episode. Just not great.
Also, no issue with the vampires as fish people. It's cool idea and I also love the perception filter idea.
Everytime I try to think of Vampires In Venice it morphs into Vincent and the Doctor. So yup, it's very forgetable.
I always thought this was fairly memorable, but maybe I just like vampires.
One of the good things about this episode is the doctors "I will end you" speech. It has just the right length and menace.
U think these fish people are bad, hav u seen the 2nd doctor episode ‘the underwater menace’?? If u want vampires hav u seen the 4th doctor story ‘state of decay’?
The only thing about this episode that I remember (fondly) years later was the guest role by Alex Price.
I actually really liked this episode. The setting was really nice, and i loved the dynamic between Amy and Rory. I also really like the design of the vampire teeth.
The cracks in time being used to pass a thing from one place to another also happened in the Time of the Doctor -- in that case it was just a message though, and it was after the whole Series 5 arc had been resolved. So who knows if the rules changed after that, right?
Another time the Cracks are used to travel is to bring the Time Lords back (albeit not bringing them back but if they did they would come through there)
The only thing I remember from this episode is the line you alluded to: "They're not vampires; they're fish from space!" And that's solely because a friend liked to quote it if we ever claimed the Doctor fought vampires.
Nathan Smith He has fought vampires though in State of decay and The curse of Fenric.
@@highvoltage7797 Tell her that!
actually twice in the classic era once with 4th, once with 7th. And they did it MUCH better
I love Helen McCrory.
She's great in Peaky Blinders!!
Also Amy’s coming back from a terrifying near death experience with the angels so I’m pretty sure hormones are running wild
Wow, you really struggled to talk about the actual episode in this review.
If I remember correctly, one thing that always bugged me was that the vampire home seemed like it was in the city, yet the canal part looked more like the countryside. Were they supposed to be the same place or is my memory glitchy?
I'm glad you came around to Amy not actually being in love with the Doctor. I often thought commenters who said she loved him were thinking too much of the past companions and not seeing the wider picture around Amy. She wanted sex and that experience with him for sure but it wasn't love. You have to remember this was right after a couple of adventures, so excitement and adrenalin would be running high - clear thinking not so much. You also have to take into account that the Doctor had been part of her life since a young age, she would have thought about him a hell of a lot and been 'forced' to put all that aside. Then he's suddenly there, in front of her, real and able to give her all these adventures she craved so much. To her it would almost be an actual dream come true.
Personally I would if I had to copy an animal on earth to make vampire and it had to be aquatic. I'd pick some that looked like an eel or remorma. Maybe those freaky things that swim up dudes well you know. In the amzone
Makes you wonder if the silence were in this episode..lol
the best parts of this episode had little to nothing to do with the monsters.
bit sad you made no mention of the father character they teamed up with for the first half
I adore this episode. Honestly have to disagree with the negative side of your entire review. I’m actually surprised you think it’s forgettable, compared to say Amy’s choice or the Hungry Earth which is possibly the weakest imo. But I guess we all can’t like the same thing. I just wouldn’t say it’s a fact it’s forgettable, that’s an opinion.
Minisode between "Flesh & Stone" and "Vampires of Venice":
ua-cam.com/video/UeJ4Ak2xCkw/v-deo.html
I find the vampires fish to be completely different from the gelths.
May I ask where you got your glasses? I love them; it's a good look on you.
Zenni Optical
@@CouncilofGeeks Thank you!
Thoughts on Split, Croatia? Also, Haemevores and state of decay >.>
Even if I can't remember his name, I thought the father was good, and the build up to the payoff of his revenge-sacrifice worked for me at least.
I like it but then again I'm a sucker for anything vampire related
| agree on just how forgettable this episode is. Earlier this year I did a complete re-watch of series 1-10, and this was the only episode of series 5 that I hadn't seen since the day it aired. I hadn't deliberately avoided it, I'd never done a series 5 re-watch before (and just skipped VoV), it had just never even occurred t me at any point to re-visit it, whereas it had occurred to me, at various points, to re-watch every other individual episode of series 5, independently of each other.
I still often tend to forget it, even having done the re-watch. I keep having it in my head that Amy's Choice comes straight after Flesh and Stone, and I have to remind myself "no wait, there's VoV". After seeing your review of the Angels two-parted last week, my immediate thought was "Amy's choice next week", took me a while to remember that Vampires was first, but I still forgot again and was surprised when this video popped up!
Even though it's only a few months since I did the re-watch I already struggle to remember the episode that clearly! Yet I don't recall it being that bad, either. There are other, much worse episodes which I recall much better.
It's one of my favorite episode
I liked this episode. After some quite intense episodes, this was very easy to take in. Perhaps a bit forgettable, but still with a bit of charm.
It's fine you forgot about the cracks. The point still stands that they're convenient plot mechanics.
If Amy is a teist on Rose, then Rory is a twist on Mickey.
I think Rory is very interesting when compared to Mickey
I think my biggest problem with Amy “jumping The Doctor’s bones” as you say, is how nonconsensual that encounter is. He clearly doesn’t want what she does, yet she keeps pushing for it, and as a result it leaves that episode with a bit of a sour taste in the mouth.
I can imagine Rose or Martha did the same with Tennant.
doesnt the crack also act as a portal in matt smiths final story on trezalor
I agree with you. This episode isn't bad or anything, I still remember bits of it...But it's just meh
I vaguely recall that was a thing, now that I see the title. I'm kind of with you on the folklore monsters, though. Aliens that look like animals is one thing- show me a franchise where that doesn't happen- but aliens that are storybook monsters that make little sense as a species? Too much.
6:50 I kinda hated that tbh. He barely knew the Doctor! Completely unearned, to the point where it doesn't make much sense coming from Rory.
I think the point is that he's noticed the effect first upon Amy, and then himself, and connected this with the Doctor. Who is also a mythical figure from his fiancee's childhood who he no doubt heard about before. IMO it makes a nice contrast to have him react differently, more grounded and critical.
I didn’t care for the doctor not putting him in his place non of the classic doctors would have tolerated that especially 1 and 6. He should have Channeled Hartnell and Colin to tell him off. And if needed smacked him or shove his finger in his chest and remind him who’s boss.
@@TheDixieBassMan - Would being "boss" make Rory's observation any less true? If the Doctor's witty response to a perceived unflattering remark is physical provocation, I would suspect roid-rage or his hormones acting up. YMMV
Popo Bawa The Doctor certainly has paired a stinging retort with a finger poke on more then one occasion. if Rory had thrown the first punch the doctor would have made a fool of him.don’t forget he easily out fenced two trained knights in the time warrior and they called him the finest swordsman they’ed ever seen.Also there were many times the first and 3 doctor willingly whooped some ass like the robot clone in the space museum or when he used venation Akido to escape the castle of irongrod in the time warrior. Couple that with Rory being a hyper emotional beta geek and the doctor would have tied him up in knots. The Doctor isn’t responsible for people’s stupidity and more often then not he helps people improve for example the brigadier in the 5 doctors knocks the master out to protect the doctors and everyone else even though the master has a laser capable of killing anyone there.
@@TheDixieBassMan The earlier Doctors hadn't been through Journey's End when Davros makes a similar point in a more devastating way. Plus, that was compounded by the almost immediate loss of Donna. The Doctor has heard a version of this before and although he doesn't like it I think he has come to recognise the truth of it.
I liked Helen Mccrory in this episode
I forgot.
Rory's the weakest element for me. Which is bad because this is his first adventure. He should have been the best part.
I think Amy was the weakest part of the episode, Rory is great as usual.
As series 11 has shown, Doctor who does not work without a story arc
And that why is so disrespectful and bad.
@@mayotango1317 try that sentence again, doesn't make any sense
@@greghawkins59 Series 11 is so boring and lame.
@@mayotango1317 oh yes, series 11 was more than just bad, it was empty.
oh I dont know with the exception of season 16 classic era did 26 YEARS of it
Well it’s not like Stephen Moffat is Gabriel Garcia Marquez >.>
I think I liked this episode better than you did, but I have to admit that it's ultimately largely forgettable, mostly because the plot is so bog-standard, and the personalities and characterization of the guest cast basically non-existent. I do think it has some great Doctor-Rory banter, and I love the bit where the Doctor forgets he doesn't have the psychic paper with him and tries to use his old library card--with Hartnell's picture on it.
The vamp women were hot. That's about it.
It was a solid episode, just nothing at all stuck out. Kinda like a S11 episode. Fine but nothing special
I forgot how forgettable it was. I'd rather it was a terrible episode because at least then it could make feel something.
Donna was the best because she was into black guys! What?
I thkhis the fish cartures look more ike the vampders fromr the satge of decy
Meh episode.There's not a lot to say from me.
I'm so confused... is this a reupload?
I think the most forgettable episode of series 5 is actually Amy’s Choice. Everything about that episode from the acting to the rural setting to the basic plot, the villain/threat, is just boring and not at all rewatchable. And come on, Rory’s hair is just... no. I have always on some level intensely disliked Rory, more for Moffat’s idiotic cliches and writing techniques than the actor however.
By comparison, just imo, VoV is a lot more aesthetically pleasing, the plot at least doesn’t bore me to death like Amy’s Choice. Plus I really like Helen McCrory.
I also really don’t care for the killer alien old people as villains, the boring English countryside villages that I generally try to avoid at all costs, Rory dying AGAIN (so repetitive), etc etc. The Dream Lord is okay, I guess, but other than that it’s a very bland episode. Not that VoV is stellar, it isn’t. But it is preferable to Amy’s Choice to me. Sorry for the rant xoxo
Well I love Amy's Choice more that Series 11
Mayo Tango131 And you’re welcome to your own opinion, of course. Series 11 as a whole is one of the weaker seasons, and series 5 is probably Matt Smith’s best.
@@clayprent8753 Yeah, and you opinion is crap like you. Rory Williams is badass.
Mayo Tango131 Nice one boyo. Sink to petty insults. I don’t really care what you think about Rory. I don’t like him. Get over it, and stop trying to bait people into subjective arguments on trivial matters like a TV show. Jesus Christ.
@@clayprent8753 Ah, you like the boring Danny Pink.
God i hate this episode
first. finally
Second
One of those that I always skip. Totally unremarkable.