Don't expect public vote winner anytime soon and I will tell you why!
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
- This might sound insane but there is actually a brutal logic which I will describe you.
#eurovision #eurovisionwinners
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Eurovision is my passion. Eurovision was my work and I am still gladly part of the professional community of this project. I started at Eurovision 2016 as Czech Head of Delegation. Such a Eurovision story! Form Eurovision in Sweden I went to antoher ESC experience. Kiiv 2017 Eurovision. This was my first and last failiur. Sometimes you need to learn trough losing even it is not plasant. We ended up 13 in the semifinal, second best score of Eurovision Czechia back then. But after this we established ESCZ national selection format. It was mostly held online. Because of this we found Mikolas Josef who went 6th at Eurovision 2018 in Portugal. Than 11th with Lake Malawi, at Eurovision 2019 in Tel Aviv, Israel.
Eurovision story is crazy. After finding all candidates and songs (-1) for ESCZ 2020 I resigned and left the television for working freelance.
Not to stop being part of Eurovision, I created this channel as I have an urge not to do just Eurovision Reactions from a different perspective. But also to do national selection reactions, watch others how they do their craft and also give a different approach for Eurovision fans.
I am very glad was part of many eurovision juries. Mostly in national selection and since 2017 I was in MGP Norway, Eurovision Malta, UMK national selection Finland. Juror in Melodifestivalen 2016. Biggest national selection. Also helped Eurovision Ireland, Eurovision Estonia, Eurovision Azerbaijan and many others.
Just amazing to be part of this community, so check my Humans of Eurovision, check my Eurovision reaction videos.
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I hope so. The public has awful taste and I’m so thankful for the jury for saving the last two Eurovisions.
Rather than awful, it is too much related to external events, and I'm more than bored to see war countries getting higher and higher positions in spite of countries who give their best efforts and then everything vanishes. Maybe taking part in Eurovision is important for their useless propaganda rather than actually putting their resources into their welfare 🤡
Unless they implement an anonymous system, where jury are objective and not subjected to the social biases and peer pressures, I don't see how there will be transparency and equal opportunity winners in the Eurovision. The extreme dissonance between the Jury vote, and the public vote this year, in addition to the political statements by certain juries on social media wasn't it.
As a newbie Eurovision watcher, it was hard to understand the levels of voting. My 12 year old son had to explain it to me 🤣 lol. Your perspective is very helpful, thank you.
🙏❤️
If I am correct then The Netherlands in 2019 was not winner neither for public and jury, which is quite funny considering the success of the song after Eurovision.
But I loved your analysis and I totally agree with you.🙂 In the final there were quite a lot of public friendly songs (considering political aspect as well) and points got distributed quite massively between bunch of countries, but less jury friendly songs who swept jury votes. So it was quite obvious mathematical solution that the winner will be jury winner. If the Netherlands had not been disqualified, I believe televote points would have been distributed even more, and Switzerland's win would have been much easier because of "concentrated" jury votes and "diluted" public votes.
I do not think it is needed to emphasize that winner was 5th in public votes this year, when actually the gap between France and Switzerland was only 1 point. And I believe for Isreal's result there was quite significant political aspect involved in televote, but it is really difficult to analyse, because it as jury friendly song was actually robbed from juries. The same with Ukraine, but I am quite confident that it would have done very well (or the same) without political aspect as well. My point is that the winner song if we exclude these previously mentioned parameters was more 3th/4th public placement worthy, but, of course, the placement does not matter, points matter and gap in jury vote was huge between 1st and 2nd place. So hopefully we will get juries back in semi-finals to ensure that jury friendly songs gets tense competition as well in the final.
Israel's support in the televote came from countries with large populations. If there were any shenanigans, the countries with smaller populations would have swung Israel's way as any attempts to sway public votes are aimed at those countries (since it is easier to sway the overall results when you can reach 20,000 people in a country like Malta that has 520,000 people, vs reaching 20,000 people in Germany with 84.6 million. In the latter, you won't make a dent).
The idea that the televotes were manipulated by special interests swamping the votes in various countries is a very weak argument
it came also from Czechia f.e. 11 milion... so it came across.
The success of Arcade came only in late 2020 thanks to TikTok. Before it was quite a useless winner (as it still is)
@@JanBors meant to reply to this - obviously it wasn't just the countries with massive populations. Czechia with 11m is closer to the median number than to, say, the Vatican. I am just saying that on a histogram of all countries showing how they voted for Israel where the x-axis is sorted in ascending order by population, it would have a very left-tailed skew.
Sorry for the pretentious words. Chatgpt translates:
In essence, the left-tailed skew indicates that countries with smaller populations are less likely to allocate a significant number of their 12 votes to Israel, whereas countries with larger populations are more likely to allocate more votes to Israel.
I dont see a problem. its good to have a juryvote who actually considers quality and not falls for social media favourites. the gab of the two voting sources will be bigger one time and closer another time. so be it. i don't know why a winner should be less accepted cause it was the juryvote who lifted him and not the publicvote. the public falls for social media favourites which is totally wrong anyway- means the artist who did the biggest and best media campagne is in favour by the public no matter if the song is good or not. its just about sympathy towards the artist. its a song contest and shouldn't be about the artist as a person. and the jury considers that- the public does not.
Well, the issue is different - that the lower quality music will be penetrating the grand final and relevancy for Eurovision song contest, which was hard to build will go down again.
then no point to spend your money, or to have a public vote at all
@@tiny_lebowski why? its 50/50 public vote and jury vote. fair enough. stop blaming the jury for not agreeing with the public.
@@JanBors dont know what u are talking about.
@@tiny_lebowski or push for better quality music? idk... thats on producers. The system is frauded cuz you have two different contests with different rules
Im probably done with Eurovision, im probably getting too old, however the concentration of the jury vote around one song last year had already started to disenfranchise me to the extent that I was mostly disengaged this year. The fact that the jury winner came 5th in the televote this year just compounded that. The ‘Producers Choice’ draw was a further disenfranchising element. If the ESC want millions of people to pay to call in their votes, but increasingly those votes become irrelevant to the overall outcome, they are going to have a big issue with viewer engagement.
Well, it does not, issue is that what should juries do, if the overall quailty of songs is very average? Imo this is a producer's issue they need to solve, its lack of juries in semifinals, and also more entertainment element (basically all songs were producer's choice) over competition element. This all is wrong.
The Netherlands did not win the public vote in 2019 Norway did and it finished 6th overall, this happened before the removal of the juries from the semifinals and somewhat contradicts your narrative, but despite this on this point I think you are right, the removal of juries from semis has made “fun/joke/alternative entries much more likely and once in the final the jury will ignore them. given that we know nations have in the past gerrymandered the public vote to their advantage (Azerbaijan was the first to do this but it’s not the last) removing the juries only made this more likely.
You are right! He was 30 points different. And it was kinda the same narrative - hight quality song like f.e. Loreen vs. Kaarja. High quality vs. eurovision fun.
The thing is more principial, that the difference might be rly huge. That even public will not vote too much for a winner song, juries will and the gap might be huge.
Only who can make this better are host country and big 5 (and sweden as they dont send joke acts) who dont need to match criterias and has markets where they must find quality.
i really don't agree with your points and beliefs aka your previous videos but your truly made sense this time around.
at least this ❤️
I would really like it if the winner came from both the jury and televote winners combined. It’s really a shame that We’ve only had that once with Portugal in 2017.
its not a shame, its how it is, but what is more important to bring much quality instead of eurovision public pleasers
but even Portugal 2017 is still getting bashed coz they say it's a boring ballad. this just goes to show that no matter what happens, people will find things to be bothered and to be triggered about, no matter the outcome is, just when they don't get what we want. we don't have the same minds. that would be freakin boring.
I don't think that will be the rule, only an exception every now and then.
The public often votes for the artist, not the song. We vote for a person we like, with a story we like, for a country we are from, for a country we feel sympathy for, for a music style even if it's not a good song... and most of us like what we know. New stuff is hard to get used to. So most of us do not vote for innovation, just good mainstream. And most of us, including me, know nothing about composition and production.
@@jayjayarray by hardcore fans, not in general
@@JanBors well yeah. that too.
The juries' biggest problem is their bias towards pop/ballad, and towards English/French. There's no appreciation for culture or originality or appreciation of different genres. Also, the political voting. I'm not paying to vote anymore.
this is for sure not an issue, as this is not their role to judge regionality but quality. Imagine someone give you point cuz you are fulfilling some cultural criteria. Imagine the debate after - cuz why this culture is given points and the other don't? No, the only criteria should be the quality, nothing else. ... Political voting ofc is a problem, but that will go always more-likely with public vote, this you cannot do anything about (or diaspora, or neighbour voting) but juries should not follow this. Thats why I would like to reform this.
@@JanBors I'm saying they don't appreciate other genres or cultures, not some DEI-esque "they have to." They just don't. And quality isn't the only criteria - they also have originality listed, and putting a 4/4 English pop song at the top is the least original thing ever. And about the political voting - the public votes with their feelings, but there are so many people voting that it balances out. There are 5 jury members per country, so when they vote politically it carries more weight.
but what is this argument? Who, the spanish jury, norwegian, czech or every? Also what does it mean? Jury is not hear to judge cultures, its here to judge music.
@@JanBors why musically was Tattoo 250 points better than Ea Ea, even though vocally they're both as good as each other, musically Ea Ea is way more original and creative, the lyrics in Ea Ea are more original, as well. All of Tattoo is the same musical pattern repeated over and over again, and it's a 4/4 English pop song, the most common thing ever. How is it possible? Unless the juries downvote non-pop songs and non-English/French songs. I mean collectively. As music professionals they should be open to every language and every musical genre, and it looks like many of them are not. They need to justify their choices, or to have jury members meet more criteria - bring members from different musical backgrounds, not just pop/tv people.
@@JanBorsyet "quality juries" were unable to detect literally the biggest band that lead Eurovision to its nowadays success because it was more important to rank higher a mediocre french ballad and a fat woman singing a useless Swedish song that flopped everywhere in the real world
What are you talking about? Most points got Croatia and came 2nd??? Croatia 337 and Israel (5th) got 323 was 2nd highest points.
I am talking about Switzerland won juries and were 5th by public vote. I did not mention Croatia or Israel, its not even a point of the video...
@@JanBors gotcha
This years winner just passed Slimane today on Spotify. It's a song that doesn't get played on the radio and only charted for 1 or 2 weeks in some countries (being out-charted by Joost klein ( a song in the Dutch language)
This was a special year and a woke year. Slimane had a perfect 12 points jury song and there was no way he only got it 3 times. There was something fishy this year, but commercial success should be a good indicator if we had a right winner. I hope next year there will be no politics (in your face or more subtle) and we have a fair competition.
Slimane had a jury friendly song but the problem is that in the jury show he sucked wasn't able to sing well. He should be thankful because juries are always biased towards french ballads, because even after a shitty performance he still got more points than Marco Mengoni in 2023, but that could be also related to Sweden buying the victory in order to give a boost to a flop singer that now is pursuing her flop career
Jury is politics system and it was always but ebu doesn’t cares only it is matter country pay them money for participation….I always said Croatia 🇭🇷 delegation should stop pay it and leave this show for ever
Its not rly true, its individuals and some might be policitaly driven. Juries are not a homogenic body. Each country, 5 people, different ages, different sex. Anyway - if croatia dont do Eurovision, there is no Baby Lasagna known in Europe. He did amazing success. Look at it from wider picture, this show and being in it, motivates many to create. This is hugely important, more than being first or 20th at Eurovision.
@@JanBorsdo you saw new single and spot baby lasagna and I of Marko
@@dragonblossom-qw2pl nope, I dont follow his career as its not my kind of music but I am curious where this will go. He already put some foundation. Now its on TV and Music industries to use and cultivate this advantage... which we know in "eastern" europe, we are almost unnable to do
did Finland leave Eurovision in 2024 just coz they were the televote winners and they only came 2nd???? think before you speak!
@@jayjayarrayCroatian people pay licence for tv and this money goes there from their pocket and I am sure that 80 procent of Croatian people think don’t be part of this