Review: Moog Sirin (including Minituar firmware updates over the years)
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- Опубліковано 10 лип 2024
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► Patreon: / loopop
Gear used in this video:
► Moog Minitaur (Sirin not there yet....): amzn.to/2TeEiZx
► A keyboard when portability is essential: Keith Macmillan K-Board: amzn.to/2S5JTE1
► My favorite keyboard controller - Arturia KeyStep: amzn.to/2R2u54s
It's always good to check out new and used prices on Reverb:
► reverb.grsm.io/MoogSirin
Other places I hang out:
► Web: loopopmusic.com
► Facebook: / loopopmusic
► Instagram: / loopopmusic
► Twitter: / loopopmusic
My music:
► Bandcamp: loopop.bandcamp.com
► Spotify: bit.ly/LoopopOnSpotify
► Apple Music:bit.ly/LoopopOnAppleMusic
TIMELINE:
0:00 Intro
0:40 Unboxing
1:15 Digital control
1:55 Oscillators
3:20 Shift functions
3:40 Filter
4:20 Mixer
5:30 LFO
6:40 VCO2 mods
8:30 Envelopes
9:45 Glide
10:05 CV to mod/MIDI
11:00 Sirin editor
12:45 Pros & cons
Want to email me personally?
► Ziv (at) loopopmusic.com
NOTE: Occasionally I’ll try out affiliate marketing and include affiliate links. This means that I may earn a commission when you click on or make purchases via affiliate links. The content of this clip is entirely my opinion, and was not paid for or dictated in any way by the company creating the gear. Without addressing the particulars of products shown here as they might be under NDA, gear shown on this channel may be either sent by the manufacturer, on loan for review or bought at a discount.
please tell Moog to mass produce this. The resale prices are INSANE
Saw one locally for 1200 recently 🙄
Vermona Mono Lancet
and to make a software editor like the minitaur
@@djcvmusic1 There is a software editor. It's great.
Just bought one for £850, which seems a bit much for such a minor tweak to the way-cheaper Minitaur. I don't understand why they don't go into proper full production with this. It'll wreck the value of mine, but I don't care, I'm not selling it so the value is not relevant.
I love my Minitaur. This video has definitely helped me make sense of the additional functions of it. Thank you for the cheat sheet!
I just wish I could trade it in for the Sirin and get those extra notes and colours...
Very well done review. I have a Minitaur and I had forgotten some of the added features.
Your reviews are always great. If you included an additional video of just musical examples you’d probably be the goto. Either way, always informative. Thanks!
That was fast🎉 Great review👍
This is a very clear, informative and inspiring review. Thank you! :-)
Your videos are really good thesedays, you put a lot of effort in and it shows.
Thanks ;)
You definitively make the best hardware synths reviews available on YT. Cheers!
You give the best reviews man @loopop
The video is really really good, very clear explanations and great overall quality
Great infomercial, cheers. Would not mind having one of these to throw on a shelf for 20 years. Side note: really enjoyed that short minimalist piece at video start/end, nicely done.
Good video editing! Is good to see that.
Great job! Saw the Moog video and had no idea what this really was.
Thanks for this presentation, informative and entertaining, as always.
Thanks for sharing, I was curious about this one! I would love to see an iOS app version of the controller program, that would make this even more portable and would pair really well with Moog’s existing app collection
Thanks for the video. Personally, this is the first piece of moog hardware I haven’t been excited about in a while. Hope they have another modular surprise for moogfest.
@Loopop just wanted to say your editing has improved *SO* much since I started watching your videos. Absolutely love the "virtual" oscilloscope and frequency analyzer on a "tilted panel" that's well done - it makes my eyes confused because the table doesn't have the same vanishing point, though; maybe next time you could actually put a tilted (blank) panel behind whatever device you're using, and "photoshop" the plugin screens onto that? It would look more natural/less distracting (and super pro)
Congrats on the sub count this year - looking forward to a 50k special!
Thanks very much! Noted re angles... 50k - yeah that’s crazy I was kind of giddy at 50 ;)
I admired the same thing, looks really great.
Very interesting review. Thanks!
Dang this thing's got a clean sound, especially when you consider the form factor/pricing. Your O-Scopes don't lie!
having to download manuals for everything nowadays really does my head in. (it's practically everything these days not just synths)
If I'm spending 600 bucks on a synth I want a full printed manual in a nicely bound book that I can flick through in bed.
reading stuff on a screen on your phone or tablet is just not the same as having a book made of paper.
analogue manuals FTW :)
Honestly, my eyes tire out way faster reading a screen. I'll never switch to e-books for this reason.
i must agree - i get why budget synth makers get you to download a pdf but moog is kinda the rolls royce of synths and for 600 yeh they should do a spiral bound manual...
we should probably also print out the internet. great for carbon foot print and such ;)
@@KevinJDildonik Yes.
Thank you so much for this video!!!!
i’m really happy to see colour on the interface, i’d be very happy if other companies followed suit. but sirin is the definition of a synth that needs knob per function. shift functions require memory, and that’s always going to be unintuitive and difficult live.
By this point, I’m convinced that you are a pair of talking musical hands lol. Thanks for the review!
The Phantom loled
love your style Mr HGL
God I love the design of the recent Moogs. The colors are great and subtle (not like Korg for example) and just beautiful. Lovely machine. Bummer that it is limited.
Great video man!
Very well reviewed!
Great job as always and wish you would do a video just on the latest version of the Minituar too, you are so good at explaining things.
Thanks! This really is the video you want. The only different is the octave range and colors
@@loopop so there is no real reason for a minitaur nowadays?
@@mynameistechno There are only 2500 sirens being made. after that the Minitaur will be your only option
I wish Moog would release more units :( this is so beautiful
my fav place to learn about new fun toys
2:35 is where Nick Batt starts crying.
didn't watch yet, but I'll assume the Siren doesn't have PWM?
lol i get that joke
Is it embarrassing that I know why?
What I find baffling is that anyone would see fit to leave a dislike on any of your videos. Many thanks as always!
Those dislikes were left by Berringer empoyees
I love this guys videos, he’s so cool. Lol
Great vid!
This is the best unboxing/review. Video i have seen of any synth. Brilliant work. I have been looking at theminitaur for a long time. Would you call this a replacement for minitaur or a companion? It does everything the minitaur does and more?
Thanks! Unless you have unlimited funds it’s probably an either/or situation. I think the bass range on this is just fine (goes under 30hz) and would prefer the flexibility of notes above C4, I also really dig the new color schemes - but that’s just me.
@loopop, as ever great video.
Thanks :)
i love the look
Good vidy Loop . . . I thought that the Minituar had Pulse Width Modulation . . . but if the Siren (and Minituar) don't have this, perhaps PW Modulation could be added with a future firmware update.
Such a GOOD informative video! If you're on a budget, how close is the Minotaur to the Sirin if you're totally updated with firmware? How big of a difference does the OSC range make? :) THANKS again for making this. so good.
lol no reply
F … … …
Oh wow it is odd that I didn’t answer this. Anyway, very close except the oscillator range which is broader on Sirin
I think this synth has potential. It's a perfect component if you're a producer looking for an analog VCO synth. The fact that it doesn't take up much space and has MIDI integration is a huge plus.
The downside is, of course, the limited functionality. But if you want to create a sound that is heavily modulated you might as well use a soft synth in my opinion. If you want that pure analog beefy sound then this is perfect
nice! Hey, what are you using to overlay those nice scope images in your video?
Thanks! Premiere Pro
If you're going to have alternate functions, then LABEL those functions around the knob too! I don't have just ONE synth.. I don't have just ONE piece of gear. Having to remember where something is or pull out a cheat-sheet is just lazy design.
Exactly, well stated.
it's even worse on the sub phatty. Makes me not use the alternative functions of it. and that doesn't even seem to get firmware updates anymore.
I've had a minitaur for a while I didn't even realise it had hidden functions. I'm kinda happy though because NEW FREE STUFF!
Totally, I use the shit out of my minitaur and I didn't even know half these functions exists. I know I updated the firmware but honestly I'm not trying to fire up my computer and click around on some software when I'm making music.
fakshen1973 it’s a small problem... to me it isn’t one at all. I would just make labels.
Hi, awesome video man! One question: what did u use as oscillocope and spectroscope? Thanks
Thanks! MOscilloscope and Ableton Spectrum
Is there any reason for this to not have paraphony, like the bass station has nowadays?
Edit: I spoke too soon, you mentioned it at 13:45. I hope they add the feature!
Thanks so much for another in depth video. Can you please explain how you have powered and setup the Keith Macmillan K-Board to work with the Sirin?
The keyboard was going through a computer and then MIDI routed back to Sirin via Ableton
excelent as always!! does it goes as low and does it sound as fat as the minitaur?
I love your work. You make life so much easier with your vids. I have been looking in to books to learn synthesis and synths. Is there any book in particular you would recommend me?
My pleasure thanks for the comment. I would of course recommend my book, but I am very very biased
Ill take it! What is your books name?
thomas kelleher i advertise it at the end of every video ;) check out my patreon link in the description?
The oscillators in the Minitaur are designed to mimic the Taurus 1 (and 3) in that their resolution is designed with bass frequency in mind, hence the note limitation of the Minitaur to align with the Taurus. Do you know if the Siren has the same oscillators and are just extended up to D8? Do the Siren and Minitaur sound the same when playing the same bass note? Great review as always, you really know how to not only review a product, but you clearly explain and break down the review making it easy to focus on specific settings and parameters. You've helped me spend my money wisely :-).
Im about to order this, but i am wondering about the same things you are.
Same question!
Moog says they're modified taurus oscillators that go to C8 instead of just C4.
From what I was told, yes the mini has a deeper bass than the sirin.
@@MONSIEURLANCEDRAKE Can you give me a source on this claim? Because I'm trying to decide if I would be spending $600 on a compliment to my Minitaur (not worth it to me) or if it'll be replacing my Minitaur with no sounds sacrificed.
Just a thought, would Moog Grandmother kind of replace Sirin and add more, just for a minimum higher price?
Thank you so much for such a great informative video! Quick question, Is it posible to use Sirin Editor VI inside Komplete Kontrol in Ableton? I'd like to use KK Scale function, play with Sirin Hardware and record Automation in Ableton. Thank you!
Hugo Encalada you can just route the midi coming out of the kk channel in ableton into any channel you’d like. I use with all my hardware synths all the time
Thanx for the great review. Do you know how polychain works?
+loopop How did you hook up the K-board to the Sirin? Did you use a hub or did you find a micro USB to USB B MIDI cable ?
Through a computer (which was acting like a USB MIDI Host)
Does the Siren support breath control or aftertouch? Considering getting one for my EWI!
Hi thanks for the great review. I was wondering how did you display the oscillator image ?
Thanks! I use MOscilloscope and MAnalyzer by a company called Melda - they’re free with some limitations in the MFreeFXBundle. Occasionally I’ll use scopes by VCV
My next Moog Synthesizer... that's if they don't sell out that is! Great demo! A+++++++++++++++++++++
before you go and buy this synth I highly recommend you take a look at a vermona mono lancet. Imho it sounds way better and costs way less.
Lalaland you’re comparing synths that are meant for different sounds and projects?
SynthgodXXX definitely worth it. They are too much fun to play with!!
@@kaiam3907 Although the Mono Lancet doesnt have memory, daw editor stuff and it’s external in is only available with an add on dock thingy, it’s cheaper and just sounds way better to me. Also better note range. Moog need to up their game I think, because companies like Vermona and Dreadbox (with their brutal Hades, Erebus V3, Abyss and Nyx)are producing top grade machines. These companies are also making their gear in small teams and it’s all handmade in-house , so it’s starting to become apparent there’s way more options than ever for cool gear than ever. I have the original Mono Lancet, the Mono Lancet '15, the PERfourMER MKII, the Kick Lancet (and the Retroverb Lancet and the Filter Lancet too)... The Vermona stuff is so awesome, and far far better than Moog. I like Moog too, as I have the vintage The Source and Minimoog synths, and the 2016 Minimoog re-release too, and many other Moog stuff, so I know what I'm speaking about. Not really comparing them, just saying there is a lot more out there, then moog.
@@kaiam3907 Did you actually read my entire comment. Or are you just here to spread your true bias, apparently you have a hard time reading and actually understanding my comment, I actually own several moogs, more the 10 moogs to be a bit more specific. I have nothing against them, I actually like them, but here you are trying to defend something. That I was never attacking to begin with. Read the final two phrases of my previous statements and get what it says there. I actually know some of the designers and creators of Dreadbox, that doesn't make my points any more valid nor their products any better as the sound of the products talks for itself, or does it not? If anything it makes me more biased about their products, hence it has nothing to do with anything I just said. I actually recommended someone to look at a vermona product in my first comment, since I happen to like it. And it has a better, bigger sound, if you were looking for a similar soundscape. Do you get that at all, nice to know you know some people at moog, but it's completely irrelevant in the sound department, since the sound comes from the synth itself and not the people you know. Thank you
It's time for a reissue🙏
I already have the Minitaur, I guess I'll get the grandmother now
Thanks.
As always, great review. It’s cute, and they are only making a limited run for those wondering why this is being produced?
Other than the CV and smaller form factor I don’t know why you’d spend on that when you can get a sub phatty used for about the same price.
Just got one back in my home last week. To each their own but I’ll take 2 variable waveform Oscillators and selectable 4 pole filter not including the other feature’s of the sub phatty over these units. I’m sure someone will like the Sirin, I wondered about that spelling, found out that’s the Russian spelling for Siren, thought they were taking sone artistic liberty with the spelling at first.
Made me think of Sarin gas.
Would be cool if they did a similar thing with the sub phatty, hmmm maybe. Add some CV, maybe an arpeggiator or some other unique little added feature and that colorful face design too.
Maybe the Minitaur and Sirin have a fatter sound than the Sub Phatty? There's a video where the Minitaur, Sirin, and Sub37 were compared, and while the differences between the Minitaur and Sirin were mostly minimal (the Minitaur had the fatter raw square wave (though it seemed less "perfect" in theory, due to a particularly prominent overtone), but sawtooth waves were nearly identical, and the synths sounded indistinguishable when patched), they were both noticeably fatter than the Sub37. Others have claimed the Minitaur is the fattest of the production Moogs, including the Minimoog Model D. Some people will take pure sound quality over any number of features.
I thought perhaps Moog replaced the e in siren with an i because they did the same to the o in minotaur.
Wish I could use it in my Eurorack case
All these modules take space :-)
Why did they stop making this lovely piece? They even made a software editor, then bam, gone. Was barely out very long. I am about to get a minitaur, but hesitate due to limited range.
Really good review. Still got a question:
Is the software a stand-alone type or do I need a DAW? I would like to use three of them on stage and use my tablet to control them. So would it be possible? Thanks in advance.
The software works both standalone and in a daw
@@loopop
Thanx so much!
@6:52 - that's the user interface I'd want if I bought one - one knob per function, like the app, instead of all the shift functions I'd never remember.
Another item on the wishlist would be the addition of a Noise Generator. Maybe with the combination of Shift + [?] knob.
Also, does Sirin / Minitaur are velocity sensitive? I'm trying different bass synths these days and thought I found my candidate with the Erica Synths Bassline DB-01, but it doesn't react to velocity when playing with a midi keyboard controller.
Hi loopop, thanks for another great review. Does that mean that Sirin can completely replace Minitaur? I mean can it sound exactly like Minitaur? I though they are different synths
Thanks! Unfortunately I have not compared them side by side
NO. The bass on the Minitaur is earthshaking. The Sirin is not.
if lfo is set to filter eg and the destination is the filter what happens. isnt that the same as what the filter envelope already does
Great video as always dude. On the lookout for my next synth (as ALWAYS 😂). I know Moog equipment costs a bit more, that’s an argument/discussion for another day haha! But, am I the only one that thinks this is a hell of a lot for something that doesn’t seem to deliver that much? I know you’re getting “that” sound but this thing just isn’t doing it for me I’m afraid. Thoughts anyone?
thx for this. I have a mintaur and it always bothered me that they crippled the range as they did.
Is this not released yet? I couldn't find it online
is it a minitaur with extended octave range or is there more to it? ok watched till the end. now i know
@
loopop What are you using as an arpeggiator / sequencer to generate the sounds at the beginning of the video?
Ableton Live
@@loopop How are you able to get both a bass line and a sequence coming out of it at the same time? Was the sequence playing from an external source?
The intro is two takes mashed up (you can see my hands are doing two different things)
Seems very similar to the monologue, with the filter being moog of course. Is it?
What do you use as reverb unit on the demo?
A smidge of Valhalla Shimmer
Damn for a second I thought Moog had re issued the Source!
This looks like a fun little box, though I don't really understand why it's listed for $599 instead of $249 or $299. It seems like Moog's version of a Microbrute, minus some features and hardware.
Just a ballpark comparison to the price of other products in its class. I recognize that Moog devices all cost more than pretty much any other brand though, so I don't expect the pricing to be competitive.
Their gear is generally quite nice, but it comes at a premium. Like, the Moog One seems pretty awesome... but for the price of the cheapest version, I'd rather have three Novation Peaks, a nice MIDI keyboard, a Digitakt, a nice mixer, three times as many voices, and a table.
When you got the sirin editor loaded did the vst work out the gate or did you have to program it. Is the ease of that process depend on the DAW?
It just worked
@@loopop im having issues running it thru Maschine. I can only hear it when I turn on midi echo.
Sorry friend it’s really not feasible to troubleshoot this in the comment section...
@@loopop I did expect you to sir. I appreciate the responsiveness. Keep up with great content!
Really wanted to like this...but my Vermona Mono Lancet 15 still sounds much better to my ears. Although the Mono Lancet doesnt have memory, daw editor stuff and it’s external in is only available with an add on dock thingy, it’s cheaper and just sounds way better to me. Also better note range. Moog need to up their game I think, because companies like Vermona and Dreadbox (with their lovely Erebus V3 and Nyx)are producing top grade machines. These companies are also making their gear in small teams and it’s all handmade in-house , so it’s starting to become apparent there’s way more options than ever for cool gear than ever. I think the Sirin looks beautiful, but before you click order, check out the competition as it’s very tight.
I agree - I've had my Mono Lancet for years now, and I have yet to find another synth that is so creamy and organic sounding. It makes most other analogs sound sterile in comparison.
Yeah it’s probably my favourite sounding synth I have based on its basic core sound. I need to experiment more with its filter as I bought the modular dock thing. Need to try running my prophet 12 through it I think!
Exactly, I have the original Mono Lancet, the Mono Lancet '15, the PERfourMER MKII, the Kick Lancet (and the Retroverb Lancet and the Filter Lancet too)... The Vermona stuff is so awesome, and far far better than Moog. I like Moog too, as I have the vintage The Source and Minimoog synths, and the 2016 Minimoog re-release too, and many other Moog stuff, so I know what I'm speaking about.
lol @ “need to up their game”. dunno where you’ve been, but Moog just released the Moog One, which is the pinnacle of digitally controlled analog synthesis technology. They made the game.
LOL the only game you’re playing there is with your finances if you get the Moog One. When you look at their more ‘affordable’ options, they seem far less cutting edge or even in this case satisfactory.
Can you do a video on how to connect two or three to make them polyphonic,that would be great👍
4:15 R.I.P Eardrums
Hey, love your videos! You mentioned the Sirin can be played paraphonic. Can you please let me know how this is done
Is how to do this in your In-Complete Book of Electronic Music?
I didn’t include the specifics in the book sorry - it’s using ccs so it’s just for fun, it doesn’t make it truly paraphonic
Could you get a Minitaur and update its firmware to support Sirin higher octaves and make use of the more ADSR support or is it locked in because it’s analog?
As far as octave range goes, this seems to be a hardware limitation that cannot be fixed with a new FW on the minitaur unfortunately.
Is it possible to connect this with the electron Digitek and a korg volca? I have an idea of that set-up by don't want to buy everything and watch it not work.
yes
Good video! Thank you for that.
I'm not feeling that new toy-color scheme Moog's doing with this and the Grandmother...
Should this be the first synth I get?
It's curious to see how the conversation sometimes devolves into these increasingly polarized camps, from "I hate it" / "I love it" to "I hate you" / "I hate you." Over synthesizers.
What software are you using to display those two waveform displays?
MOscilloscope and Ableton Spectrum
@@loopop Thank you!
Can I upgrade my minator with the new firmware?
The latest is 2.2 - it will do everything this does except the different octave range
The limited note range of the oscillators on the Minitaur is a hardware limitation. A new firmware wouldn't do anything about it.
which microphone do you use in this video? With preamp? Or directly to ad-? Which AD? Thx.
I'll tell you, but before I do.... why do you ask? because it was quite an ordeal....
loopop The answer lies in the book Critical listening by Jason Corey actually. But in my opinion, the details and texture of your voice goes through something hight quality equipment. Or it's acoustic panels of your room. I mean I like the nature of sound that I'm hearing. Thx.
Well, if you mean generally, I use an AT2020 into AudioFuse, but in this video I used the Zoom H4n because I was on the road in a hotel room for NAMM... The thing is, I had my laptop open nearby, and the fan made a ton of noise, so I applied a denoising plugin to take some of that away... so, I'm glad you like it, but if it's this and not the others I'm going to have to start introducing noise on a regular basis!
loopop that's that I mean. Sometimes "Brand name" and tones of money for expensive equipment has no meaning with beauty of perception... thx.
Thank you ;)
Hi great review, what's the waveform visualizer you're using?
Thanks! MOscilloscope and Ableton Spectrum
It's nice but I was really hoping we'd see a purchasable Subharmonicon from Moog. I don't think we ever will
Is this just a colorful Minitaur? What are the differences from a Sirin to a Minitaur?
Thanks Loopop! I've wanted a minitaur for a while. I'm considering grabbing this while they're available.
Do you know if you can polychain a Sirin with a Minitaur?
You're welcome! I would assume so but check with Moog to make sure...
@@loopopI'll try that. oh and how do the colors match up with the grandmother?
Ha! I’ll know when I get home - still at NAMM but this certainly looks like it’s in her family
@@loopop I finally decided to pull the trigger and their online sale is over :'(
They’re making 2500 of these so there are probably a few more to go around
I'm gonna get very drunk if I have a shot every time you say shift
i still didnt got it clearly, if minitaur with updated firmware equals to sirin? or they still have any hardware differences?
yes, there are hardware differences - Sirin can play higher notes
Wish they'd re-release this. A sub25-37 is overkill for me, loved my minitaur but it was a touch limited. (I have a sub 37 now, but I'd happily sell it and trade down if they ever reissued a Sirin)
Is there an alternative to the Sirin? (I do automate things with my daw sometimes.)
I sold my minituar, missed the form factor so I bought a nuetron no regrets , never warmed up the the minituar usb features
i'm thinking of buying either a Minitaur or a Neutron, which would you recommend for a beginner?
@@twentysevenfourmusic Definitely a Neutron, I received mine a few months ago and it's an amazing synth. The modular control makes it totally worth it imo :D
what is this oscilloscope ? didnt find a good one yet haha
MOscilloscope
what's the size of the cv gate inputs? 6.35?
yes
@@loopop great for guitars expressionn pedlas, less for eurorack stuff and my lovely expressive e "touché" , another cable mess ^^
damn it, i think i've asked before but does anyone know what oscilloscope, and spectrum analyzer that is he's using
Hi, I use MOscilloscope and MAnalyzer by a company called Melda - they’re free with some limitations in the MFreeFXBundle
the answer of moog to the SE-02, but with less features?
and twice the price