A2 and 1095 are just fine for me in any application, I learned long ago not to be a steel snob, as long as its good it doesn't have to be super! 👍nice vid
What about for a survival knife? If you had to bring one knife that you would depend your life on god forbid you ever get into that scenario, of which steel would the knife be?
Great point I couldn’t agree with more. People overlook the “living with” the steel factor of sharpening in the field etc. I’m much more of the mind these days to go for the design I like more than the steel it’s made in! It was a hard pill to swallow lol!
Im one of those nuts who enjoys sharpening, even with stubborn steels. Once you get the hang of it and have the right stones, you dont want to do it any other way and can sharpen anything fairly easily. The most time I spend sharpening now in any knife is maybe 15mins. That includes stropping.
My general thinking on Super steels is that they don't wear out as fast as other steels do, but if the break or chip, you're up the proverbial creek, because they are much harder to fix or re-profile. And if we're honest, most of the guys that complain about how easily some of the non-super steels wear or take damage don't actually know how to use a knife and use their knives for tasks a knife was not meant to do, to begin with.
The edge retention tests are telling. I remember about 25 years ago D2 was all the rage. It is a good steel and not too hard to get a razor edge on. Only so so corrosion resistance though. Most average knife users cannot sharpen normal steel knives very well. But someone who knows how can handle these boutique steels without difficulty. If you use your knife for slicing meat the edge will last quite a while.
This exactly fits my conclusions regarding knife steels. Steel choice is significantly less important that the quality of heat treatment. To me, blade geometry and ease of sharpening are the two of the most important features of each knife by far. What is especially irritating to me is when some UA-camr sings high praises when certain blade "comes extremely sharp out of the box"... who gives a sh*t about THAT?! Sure, you can mention it but it is as irrelevant as last year's snow. If you use it, it will get dull and you will have to sharpen it. What I want to say is that you should do more of these videos. We don't have many sources on UA-cam that are experienced and honest about knives. Huge thumbs up, man.
I use diamond stones and all steels sharpen up easy. It's just that simple. Pick the steel that fits your needs and hits your desired budget. There's no sense complaining a steel is too hard to sharpen unless you understand what materials are hard enough to cut each steel you use.
Came here to say this. Sure my TS Prof was $400 but it makes sharpening the most temperamental steel impossible to mess up. My 52100 blades have gotten great feedback from customers but it's always satisfying when they bring an S30v blade back for a resharpen, a year later, after field dressing 4 deer and it still shaves.
There are Knives & there are Beaters: There are Cutters & there are Fixers… 1095 is great Shovel steel; 5160 best for swords, but 52100, properly done, marries the edge of the first with the resilient toughness of the second: They are easy, economical, & all rust like a bucket, without TLC. AEB-L is a stainless 52100… as is 14C28N… (only AEB-L is easier to find)…All these show great Edge-Apex stability when fighting adversity, holding an acute angle of attack. For Bushcraft, Chisel Steels have the edge: O1, 02, M2, 3V, with more Compressive strength… (Bark River uses 2 of them, A2 & 3V for that reason, & for not “rusting over too much” if you but cry). For Outdoor/CampingKnives 440-C (or N-695) is great. VG-10 & N690 hold an edge 15% longer & “dance” in the wet, & do Mess Duty. All are economic, easy to field sharpen & fix: Coffee Mug Bottom, & Car-Window all will quickly fix & straighten any damage (& 2000 grit wet/dry sand paper will fix a multitude of sins… a cork trivet bringing the apex to a mirror Polish). For “ABUSIVE” Survival Work, A8 Mod is hard to beat… tougher than A2. Surprisingly, CPM 3V is easy to sharpen if it is not overly soft, but rather a crisp 61 HRC… It is very sensitive to the Quality of the Heat Treatment… requiring very fast quenching & no hot grinding (else it is wish washy & even chips: BRKT is not always consistent… & that applies to their Cruwear…). Of the Powder Steels, S35VN, & CPM 154 in NA or RWL-34 in Europe, are the only ones tough enough, yet possible to sharpen & fix in the Field with the means of the board (As tough as 1095 & no micro chipping). All the other Powder Steels , I leave for small/medium “Specialty Cutters”, with professional Heat Treatment (ie: Custom Knives). PS: Spanish Cudeman & Italian Lionsteel have great Heat Treatments eg, Cudeman’s MT-5 in N-695, & their M-206 in N-690. In Powder Steels, the Lionsteel M-4 in N-390 is exceptionally good, & worth the extra penny. Porcelain “Coffee Mug” bottom works just fine… & the abrasive Cork trivet shines them perfectly.
CruWear is _crazy_ easy to sharpen. 3V used to be my favourite non-stainless steel until i got a CruWear Native. Was the heat treat aiming for a bit too high hardness?
A lot to say here. Geometry is far more important than steel choice. However I have serious doubts about bark river quality. If you can find a maker who does heat treating in house and consistently uses a steel like cruwear and heat treats it properly it’s likely to blow everything else away. Higher HRC doesn’t necessarily mean it’s harder to sharpen. I’ve had a roll in cruwear and it only took minutes to repair my edge. Not as fast as something like 8670 but still it was quick. I don’t like some simple steels for the fact that I don’t want to stop to sharpen and strop constantly. I need something that’s gonna go for a while. I’m also not a fan of O1 anymore when you can get might higher levels of toughness and better edge retention from 8670. I’m a very firm believer in picking the steel, the grind, and the heat treat for the intended application. For example I’m building two kitchen knives for friends who don’t use expensive handmade knives but would love them if they had them. I’m not going to choose a carbon steel because I don’t know if they’ll maintain it. I’m also not going to do a PM stainless steel even though something like magnacut would be awesome. The awesomeness would be lost on them. So I’m going to be using AEB-L @64 hrc because it’s simple tough and easy to maintain. Where as if I was to build the same knife for me it would be in 4V.
Aebl is a seriously under rated steel in my opinion, it's a very good all rounder, i really like cruwear, o1, and aebl, never tried 8670 so might need to give that a go.
1095 is unusually brittle 1084 is tougher at the same hardness and better steels like 52100, 80CrV2, 5160 are much tougher for the hardness..@@joem5903
I can take my A2 Gunny and Featherstick/Baton with it all day and with stropping it's right back to hair popping sharp, but with my 2 ESEE's in 1095 if i Featherstick/Baton with those it requires some stone/stropping action to get back into working order. I am definitely not impressed with how either of my ESEE's perform but if you're just doing a day trip they can handle the task.
Your one of the first to speak the truth. I believe many UA-cam and internet people don’t really use their knives. They all just keep repeating marketing. The truth is heat treatment is very important. Esee has its knives 56-57 maybe even 55. When steel is in those levels it’s tough but it’s soft. I prefer spring steels or 80cv , 1080,1075 . But I prefer the Rockwell to be no less then 58. The hardness is what gives you edge retention. The trick is being hard without being brittle. Really want a great knife get treva puuko the company that makes the skrama.
I'm the same way. I love basic steels 1055,1095,80crV2 AEB-L, 14C28N etc (I'm kinda obligated as a Scandinavian lol). But I also love the Japanese steels, and the PM steels from all the large makers, Udderholm, Bohler, Crucible, Carpenter etc. But as you say all come with their pros & cons. One can take the moment to just appreciate a steel for what it is, and weigh what you need or want for a specific use case 8a hunt, a hike). Always good to have options and not go crazy always chasing the next "best thing" in steel all the time. If a new steel comes and it's really good we will hear about it no matter what and just try it when we want and got the opportunity without stressing to get it in hand first. As you also mentioned heat treatment is also so important. So in my eyes it's better to let makers play with it and find what works for them eventually. And then try the new steel when it's been optimized within the knife makers and the knife community. Greetings from Norway and sorry for the long post
Thing is, The low carbide steels like basic carbon and those stainless you mention can hold much finer edges. Lower angle, finer grit. Finer edges cut better. The irony is that super-steels often don't and can't hold such a razor edge and don't cut as well, but they will cut longer at a medium sharpness.
@@mikafoxx2717 Well that depends on what "super steel" we are talking about. And also what you are cutting. When cutting something very abrasive or plastic etc. Those High vanadium Tool steels & PM steels are the way to go. Harder steel and thinner edges.
@@Cid_1 The issue with them is usually low toughness, which causes the edge to chip instead of wear on normal cutting tasks. Something like Rex45 is more tough at the same hardness as something like 10V, thanks to much less carbide, but they still get very good edge retention because it's mostly abrasion thanks to greater edge stability from rolling(hardness) and chipping(toughness).
Try some 8670 if you like tough steel that's much easier to sharpen than 3v. Most all carbons have about the same edge retention but the ease of sharpening really comes from a good ht.
I know. Back before I owned a 3v knife, I was hesitant to buy one because of all the people claiming that they are so hard to sharpen. Now I own a ton of them. I’ve never had an issue. Anyone who knows how to sharpen a knife on water stones shouldn’t have a problem.
Hey thanks for the suggestion. I had not heard of that Steel previously. Saw blade steel. The Nickel is interesting in a non Damascus steel. I read it adds toughness. Someone else said it contributes to corrosion resistance as well. Not sure that’s right tho. I’m going to grab something in that steel.
That Fox River looks terrible, you need to send that back to BRKT and Mike will take care of it for you. I have the same handle scales on a Fox River in A2. Field dressed many whitetails, never any problem. I would expect more from Cru-Wear and would suspect there was a quality issue with that one, unless you did something really stupid with it.
I want a Fallkniven A1X or S1X in magnacut! I heard they are slow releasing it in the next couple of years. The only super steels i have are low end CPM-3V and S35VN. They are fairly easy to sharpen and hone. The Bark River Aurora 3V was somewhat of an initial disappointment. The edge geometry was terrible so I reprofiled it right out of the box. Now it is super sharp and very easy to maintain.
Bark river knives suck, not just the sheaths but the ultra thick convex edges are always burnt from the grinding process and always chip. Get an lt Wright knife and get it in an old timey tool steel that is made for the kind of work the knife is going to do
@@troyounce3295 Yep it has been prooven many times that bark river severely burn the edges and they are not willing to listen at all. Instead they blame the users and bash them publicly. Not really what you want a company to act like. Also their quality control is horrible and they just dont care about that either (they say it is normal as they are hand made). But they are selling them in a state not aceptable at all (especially at that price). Also there have been several occasion where they had mislabled steels (labled as a supersteel like 3V, cru-wear, ..., but when it was tested it actually was A2). (I do have several Bark River Knives as i like their designs but i wont buy any new ones as they are more Problems than what they are worth)
I have some supersteel knives. They really are glorified letter openers. I still like having them. But for tough woodwork, when hiking or camping, I only trust my low-end to medium priced knives.
Excellent video, looking to buy my first bushcrafter. Heck, my first purchase was the Benchmade Bugout last week. I get cut up on watching videos and steel, but reality is I will probably only baton and feather stick. I like going home and touching up my Benchmade in the evening.
For Outdoors Knives, for Camp use, I like 1095CV or 1095HC. But, after owning and using my Demko Knives, Magnacut FREEREIGN, I have become a Magnacut Fan, too. Also, I like CPM-3V, too... Great Video and great discussion and point of view. :-) Peace, Stiletto :-)
My big choppers are 3V. My small knives for detail work and game are magnacut and S90/110v. If I plan to beat on something, 1095 can't be beaten. The right tool for the job! And heat treatment means everything. I also have a lot of D2, which is one of my favorite all-around steels with Benchmades treat. I think they're a master of D2.
I guess I will find out soon. I have an OKC SP-8 in 1075, a Bark River Bravo 1.5 in CPM3V, a Survive! Knives GSO 5.1 in Magnacut on pre order and an OKC Kukri in 1095 on backorder. I also have 3 acres of woods to test them in. I don't see myself batoning or chopping with any of my folders.
Agree with you on this. Own zdp, cruwear, 4v, S30v. Also own 154cm, BD1N, Aus8, Aus10, 5160 and 1095. Only sharpening issue I have is with the zdp189. But - overtime I have used and maintained enough of these steels to really appreciate the ingot steels and how well they strop back to very sharp clean edges. With the carbon steels, I can get a working edge back from a totally dull edge on a flat rock and leather field strop. In terms of usability in the field, I prefer the old school carbon steels for that reason. For daily carry I really like 154cm and love BD1N. Not a huge fan of 14c, D2 etc. going to try some Nitro V soon. I have high hopes it’ll be like my 154cm and BD1N. Stain-less, take a high polish and strop back after a day of work. Great video. +1sub
@@daveyboy6985 The examples I’ve used, I find it doesn’t hold up as well in my daily use as the other stainless steels I’ve used. Seems to wear more than the spyderco Bd1n and Gerber and Kizer 154cm I have. Even after several edges, it just deforms faster and worse. Comes back ok
@@greghaddock8316 I have two ruike knives in 14c , I like them a lot. I've heard civivi do an awesome heat treat on that steel as well. I've no experience with 154cm,, from what I've heard it's a great steel, usually a bit pricier in where I live in New Zealand though.
I have sharpened a few 14c28n blades. All took a wicked edge, polished up nicely and stropped back really well. I have not owned any so shouldn’t really post an opinion. I am that guy at my work place that ppl going their knives to for sharpening etc. I get to sharpen lots of different steel. I am currently working on a BM Claymore Mini in cpm D2. It’s moving pretty easily. Maybe too easy. Anyway I intend to grab a good knife in 14c and give it a go. Happy trails
UNFORTUNATELY THAT CRUWEAR, THAT 3V & THAT MAGNACUT ARE ALL FRUIT OF THE “FAMOUS” BARK RIVER LOOM: YOU JUST CANNOT JUDGE THOSE STEELS BY THAT HEAT TREATMENT… (IE: NOT THE BEST!)
In what way? If you watch their heat treament process on the shop tour video, it is pretty bad.Heat the edge in a forge and dunk it in a really nasty looking bucket of oil. I hope that was a joke. 1095 does NOT do the "get it hot, gt it wet" thing well. That is 1080/1084.
@Joe M I own their Brakimo and it holds an excellent edge . I've worked with plenty of steels sharpening and reprofile work and their 1095 is good stuff. I've used the Brakimo plenty and have had no chipping or warping . My experience has been fine, I also have their Msk 1 scandi which gets a wicked edge only negative was they are to thick but I fixed that problem an she slices great .
When it comes to blade steel, I am a bit of a snob but my snobbyness is weird. One of my primary metrics for steel is that it has 0.8% carbon. That might sound odd but I read a few scientific reports that says 0.8% carbon is the limit for well blended carbon in steel. 1.0% carbon has a higher chance of forming carbides. Other than that, I prefer alloy steel over plain steel. Thus I really like 8670, 80 crv2, and the like I will use other steels, because I know that the temper is more important than the steel, but my preference is my preference.
@@thiago.assumpcao Like I said before "Heat treatment is where knives are made." Yet there are other less interesting reasons why manufacturers pick their steels, Familiarity and ease of manufacture. CPM-3V, one of my favorite steels, is very difficult to grind (it eats up abrasives), so few manufacturers mass produce CPM-3V knives (Fortunately the number is growing by the day). "An acceptable blade smith can turn a block of 52100 into a good knife, a blade master can turn a block of 1060 into a great knife." There is another reason why people pick steel with 1.0% carbon, the high carbon holds an edge better (and a lot of people will gravitate towards this). It is what the market wants so manufacturers produce what the customer will buy.
@@thiago.assumpcao people thingk that "toughness" means you can bend the knife, etc. 1095 froms plate martensite so not really tough at all. Even at low hardness like 57. 1084 at 61 is tougher.
@@johnsmithfakename8422 they pick the steels for the price point... because they know some morons will pay hundreds of dollars for a super steel knife that won't cut any better than a cheaper carbon steel knife. It's all just to get you to spend more money.
I personally like carbon steel for my outdoor knives. An my choppers are 1080 and 5160. I don't see a benefit spending crazy money on stainless that will break or chip. Personally I don't buy knives that cost more then $200. I can't justify when my other knives preform amazing.
Most people wont be doing things that make "super steel" necessary. It's cost & sharpening time vs what you can do with it compared to cheaper knives is still just too far apart. I've been using knives, machetes & even training with swords for decades & i've lost knives, i've broken them etc. They are tools that are meant to be used up over time. Everybody seems to get hung up on "the indestructible knife" & these companies use that to fleece people.
Ya l, I had to learn the hard way too. My problem is I still hate coated blades and I live in a coastal rain forest environment. While I still like the carbon steel performance, trying to keep up with the maintenance has proven to be next to impossible for me. 3V has been a good balance with enough stain resistants for me to use year around. AEB-L is next on my radar...
What do you guys do with your knives that I must not be doing? I own a small island that I go to frequently. I’m surrounded by salt water. I use my 01 knives just like my stainless steel knives and process beach wood, fish and coconuts. I’ve never had issues with rust unless I’m completely careless. A quick wipe on your pants and back in the sheath and it’s good to go. When you’re done for the day. A light coating of food safe oil is all it takes to keep it pristine until next use. I can’t tell if it’s exaggeration, or if it’s just user error. That being said, I love AEB-L. Definitely my favorite steel.
I have no problem in the summer months. It’s the cold rainy season 30-50 degrees were things are drenched for months at a time. You can’t travel the forest without getting soaked. Foggy most of the day from moisture with moss growing 20 feet up all sides of the everything.
Been hunting in environments that seasoned outdoorsmen could not keep a fire going. Any dry enough tinder was in the middle of 8” dead standing trees. And once you get to it you need to act fast before it starts wicking up moisture.
14c28N is the best because it is a cheap supersteel. It's super tough, super stainless, and super easy to sharpen, with double the edge retention of steels like 1095, 52100.
I wouldn’t mind trying out more 3v, I have them in Lon Humphrey and a Survive Knives 4.5 bushcraft. They are pretty nice and Cruwear in a couple of Spyderco folders.
I have loved the cru wear on my 2 spyderco pm2's, never had any other knives in cru wear though but i would like too, but nobody really makes knives with it where i'm from, tempted to pull the trigger on a 3v bark river right now but never had any experience with 3v.
I have 4 knives in cpm 3v I absolutely love it my favorite steel arm two bark rivers a bravo 1 a bravo 1.25 a Benchmade 200 pukko and a cold steel master hunter . Never had anything go wrong with any of them .as for sharpening Iv only had to stropp so far had them for a few years now .
Besides with releases like magnacut, there's a strong preference to stainless over stain"full" Tops 154cm sells like hot cakes Can't keep them stocked Esee is releasing more and more in s35vn. People don't want the added maintenance and stress of having to constantly oil a tool or carbon steel blade, keep it dry, and separate from the sheath, and God help you if you're out in the forest with your wrinkler If it starts raining. With 154cm you're good to go
I don't need the added maintenance of tool and carbon steels So I avoid them, not a steel snob but there's steels that work for me so I use those I am tired of seeing 3v everywhere though however
I just picked up the Cold Steel Trailmaster in 3v and I LOVE IT! IEDC it constantly. Wore it today in fact. I previously had purchased the Trailmaster in SAN MAI 3 and it cost me MORE! Also, there is a massive difference between those two knives believe it or not. The 3v gets way sharper, and stays way sharper. The SAN MAI 3 is more corrosion resistant so I swap them out accordingly.
I think this just points out that everyone rates steels in their own way. For me 1095 and A2 have been a disappointment. 1095 heat treated to where it keeps an edge becomes very brittle and left soft to where it rolls instead, needs sharpening all the time. A2 is much better in terms of performance and the difference to 3V isn't obvious, but it rusts and I just don't get all the people who whinge about sharpening 3V and don't mention the pain in the a@@ that keeping non stainless steels from rusting. Cut a lemon and five minutes later you either have a marked blade or a hell of a blade cleaning job to do. I also don't understand how people are getting their knives blunt. If you use 3V on wood, it takes an age to dull. And it only takes a minute with a fine diamond sharpener to bring it back to hair shaving sharp. Edge damage is another thing. If you abuse your knives, any steel will chip or roll and softer steels are so much easier to re-profile. In terms of wear resistance and sharpening. The two are the same thing and I'd rather spend an extra 3 minutes sharpening for an extra 3 months of use. In terms of value, that's where super-steels fall down and it's not makers ripping us off. Super-steels are expensive to buy, far more expensive to work, and take a lot more time, so they end up multiples more expensive. Thankfully there are a stack of moderately priced steels that have excellent performance ratios. In non-stainless 80Crv2 and A2 are hard to beat and in stainless 420HC (preferably by Buck), 14C28N, AEB-L, CPM-154 are all excellent choices. 1095 for me is generally overpriced for what you get, especially ESEE and TOPS, though hats off that they are US made and I still love their designs. When they put out an ESEE 6 in a different steel, I'll probably get one. Which brings me to my final point, the most important aspect of any knife is the design. Victorinox use terrible soft steel but in such an amazing configuration that I can't stop myself for using one for my EDC. Don't let the steel stop you from getting the knife design that suits you, unless you are like me and really want something stainless.
@@ShoahBiz Not really. They are both powder metallurgy steels with similar levels of Chromium but CPM 154 is a much older and simpler formulation delivering reasonable wear resistance while being easy to work and moderately tough. S35Vn is a refinement of s30V. S30V has great wear resistance but has a very high level of Vanadium carbides that can make it a bit chippy and difficult to work. s 35Vn backs off on the Vanadium and adds some Niobium, improving tougness and machinability. CPM 154 should take a slightly finer edge and will be cheaper and easier to work. S35Vn will be a bit more expensive but the edge will last longer. Both are excellent steels though.
A2 really only works one way 60 Rc. No room for any real tweaking of the HT. Same with 5160. 58-59 is it toughest. HT at 1500-1525 and temper at 375-400. It gets less tough when you go below like 57Rc because of TME. Same with Cru Forge V lower than 59 Rc.
I've seen 1095 cut through a steel pan and still cut paper and its not even a tough steel. None of this matters without extremely thin geometry and very tiny margins. Nobody needs "super" steels or can even tell any benefit from them in real life. We're all just spoiled as heck. Ill take a well done 1095 or d2 knife over any mediocre heat treated super steel, which lets be honest, 99.9 percent of knives on the market are.
Lets be honest, nothing is really hard to sharpen when you got a belt grinder. So go for the knife which can hold an edge for the weekend outdoor and you are fine. And here the super steels mostly take the cake no?
@@MovieGuy666 Have you ever once actually tried to reprofile the edge of your knife on a rock in the woods? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You write a stupid reply under literally every comment of this video it's so obnoxious listening to you.
They all cut. I have knives in all the steels . A butcher’s steel and strop will resharpen any of them to a razors edge in minutes . Fact is a $10 machete brought a superpower to its knees in Vietnam
There is a difference between 1095 and 52100. Not so easy to find clean 1095....unless you buy W1. 1084 is tougher than 1095 and easier to work with. As for sucking sharpening, 3V is easy to sharpen and easier to hand finish than CruForgeV.
@@MovieGuy666 I used water stones. With a lot of steels including 3V, if you have trouble sharpening, then your edge may be too thick. You can put a very thin edge on a 3V knife. Many people woudl be surprised is they knew how thin some of those big cutting comp cleavers are taken down at the edge.
NitroV is a solid budget steel. Quite fine grain size which helps it hold very fine edges with high polishes. It is quite similar to 14c28n (chemically and also in my use).
No company will ever claim their steel is the best at everything. This is just silly, making a counter claim to a non-existent claim that no one other than, perhaps, users "UA-cam experts" would make. CPM 3V 30 years from now will still be considered to be in the top 10 of what is considered to be a well balanced, all-around great knife steel. Unless there is a miraculous leap in metallurgy, CPM 3V is an amazing knife steel. I base this claim loosely on the fact that it is already over 25 year and it is still in the top 10 (if they are being honest and paragmatic). CPM 3V is for many in the top 5 today.
3v doesn't even get harder than around 60 rc my man. That's basically it's max usable hardenability. Its not a steel that can get very hard at all to begin ith. Also idk what kind of production knives you're getting that are done with these heat treats, cuz all the off the shelf production shit I know of is all the same crap, and no one really does outdoor knives harder than about that. Unless its custom. Even then, you generally don't find anything other kitchen knives and some edc stuff done very hard. But like I said, never in 3v cuz that steel literally can not get that hard on a physical level. It's not possible. As far as sharpening... this falls under the ruberik of machining. The more "wear resistance" any steel has, the lower the machinability ie requires more grinding for instance to sharpen or to dull, the higher the so called "edge retention." Actually most knife bros tends to just mix those two things like they're the same but they're not. The whole abrasion thing falls under the general rubrik of what's called machinability. Edges can degrade in other ways than just abrasion. Even corrosion can make an edge dull. Anyway. None of this stuff is very straight forward. The basic way I can say this is vanadium carbides... any steel which has more than say 3 or 4% at the most vanadium will benefit from if not require non traditional abrasives, what are called "superabrasives" meaning diamond or cbn. If you use that, the abrasion resistance aspect of those vanadium carbides isn't an issue. The more nuanced issue which comes down to all kinds of factors is the actual sharpening itself.. like aside from how much grinding it takes or how strong of an abrasive you need, the dynamics of sharpening different steels varies. Some are just more of a challenge than others to get to the same standard of keenness. Why? Well it comes down to the heat treat but it also comes down to the actual grain structure of the steel itself. This is why imo 3 of the best user steels are AEBL, XHP and ZDP-189... in order from least abrasion resistance and most toughness, to most abrasion resistance and least toughness. These are steels which use chromium carbides. They sharpen very easily and very well with standard abrasives, take great edges and great polishes. Anyway. Steel itself isn't as relevant as many folks assume it is for a knife. So many things matter more. Especially if you stay realistic and make real world comparisons. Most users will not be able to tell the difference between vg10 and 154cm if they tried.
Finally a video talking about supersteels that were never meant to be used on knives. 420hc and n690co are going to be the best steels for practical use. If your knife is above 60hrc it’s not going to perform well, it might perform well at slicing through paper but that’s 0.01% of tasks that a knife was meant to handle
A2 and 1095 are just fine for me in any application, I learned long ago not to be a steel snob, as long as its good it doesn't have to be super! 👍nice vid
The heat treat is the only thing that needs to be super. Lt Wright for the win
The knife you have is better than the knife you wish you had. Or, just buy all the knives and be broke like me.
What about for a survival knife? If you had to bring one knife that you would depend your life on god forbid you ever get into that scenario, of which steel would the knife be?
@@rigajykra3159magnacut or coated Cruware
A2, M2, 52100 for Hard edges… (@ ~60+ HRC)… for tough edges, & long blades 1095 is not bad (@ ~ 56-57 HRC), but then 1084 is way better…
I've listened to thousands of knife snobs but the way this guy puts it is great!
Great point I couldn’t agree with more. People overlook the “living with” the steel factor of sharpening in the field etc. I’m much more of the mind these days to go for the design I like more than the steel it’s made in! It was a hard pill to swallow lol!
Im one of those nuts who enjoys sharpening, even with stubborn steels. Once you get the hang of it and have the right stones, you dont want to do it any other way and can sharpen anything fairly easily. The most time I spend sharpening now in any knife is maybe 15mins. That includes stropping.
Same, with practice you start maintaining knives so frequently you need a day of hard knife work just to cause a reason to fully sharpen.
LC200n. Rust proof, holds a good edge, doesn't chip and is super easy to sharpen.
My general thinking on Super steels is that they don't wear out as fast as other steels do, but if the break or chip, you're up the proverbial creek, because they are much harder to fix or re-profile.
And if we're honest, most of the guys that complain about how easily some of the non-super steels wear or take damage don't actually know how to use a knife and use their knives for tasks a knife was not meant to do, to begin with.
The edge retention tests are telling. I remember about 25 years ago D2 was all the rage. It is a good steel and not too hard to get a razor edge on. Only so so corrosion resistance though. Most average knife users cannot sharpen normal steel knives very well. But someone who knows how can handle these boutique steels without difficulty. If you use your knife for slicing meat the edge will last quite a while.
This exactly fits my conclusions regarding knife steels. Steel choice is significantly less important that the quality of heat treatment.
To me, blade geometry and ease of sharpening are the two of the most important features of each knife by far.
What is especially irritating to me is when some UA-camr sings high praises when certain blade "comes extremely sharp out of the box"... who gives a sh*t about THAT?! Sure, you can mention it but it is as irrelevant as last year's snow. If you use it, it will get dull and you will have to sharpen it.
What I want to say is that you should do more of these videos. We don't have many sources on UA-cam that are experienced and honest about knives. Huge thumbs up, man.
I use diamond stones and all steels sharpen up easy. It's just that simple. Pick the steel that fits your needs and hits your desired budget. There's no sense complaining a steel is too hard to sharpen unless you understand what materials are hard enough to cut each steel you use.
Came here to say this. Sure my TS Prof was $400 but it makes sharpening the most temperamental steel impossible to mess up. My 52100 blades have gotten great feedback from customers but it's always satisfying when they bring an S30v blade back for a resharpen, a year later, after field dressing 4 deer and it still shaves.
Ty for this. Been on the fence about 3v and I think this settles it. I think I'm good where i am😊
There are Knives & there are Beaters: There are Cutters & there are Fixers… 1095 is great Shovel steel; 5160 best for swords, but 52100, properly done, marries the edge of the first with the resilient toughness of the second: They are easy, economical, & all rust like a bucket, without TLC. AEB-L is a stainless 52100… as is 14C28N… (only AEB-L is easier to find)…All these show great Edge-Apex stability when fighting adversity, holding an acute angle of attack. For Bushcraft, Chisel Steels have the edge: O1, 02, M2, 3V, with more Compressive strength… (Bark River uses 2 of them, A2 & 3V for that reason, & for not “rusting over too much” if you but cry). For Outdoor/CampingKnives 440-C (or N-695) is great. VG-10 & N690 hold an edge 15% longer & “dance” in the wet, & do Mess Duty. All are economic, easy to field sharpen & fix: Coffee Mug Bottom, & Car-Window all will quickly fix & straighten any damage (& 2000 grit wet/dry sand paper will fix a multitude of sins… a cork trivet bringing the apex to a mirror Polish). For “ABUSIVE” Survival Work, A8 Mod is hard to beat… tougher than A2. Surprisingly, CPM 3V is easy to sharpen if it is not overly soft, but rather a crisp 61 HRC… It is very sensitive to the Quality of the Heat Treatment… requiring very fast quenching & no hot grinding (else it is wish washy & even chips: BRKT is not always consistent… & that applies to their Cruwear…). Of the Powder Steels, S35VN, & CPM 154 in NA or RWL-34 in Europe, are the only ones tough enough, yet possible to sharpen & fix in the Field with the means of the board (As tough as 1095 & no micro chipping). All the other Powder Steels , I leave for small/medium “Specialty Cutters”, with professional Heat Treatment (ie: Custom Knives). PS: Spanish Cudeman & Italian Lionsteel have great Heat Treatments eg, Cudeman’s MT-5 in N-695, & their M-206 in N-690. In Powder Steels, the Lionsteel M-4 in N-390 is exceptionally good, & worth the extra penny. Porcelain “Coffee Mug” bottom works just fine… & the abrasive Cork trivet shines them perfectly.
I would say for choppers 5160, 8670, or S7. I have kukris in 5160 and they are tough.
L6, 52100, etc
CruWear is _crazy_ easy to sharpen. 3V used to be my favourite non-stainless steel until i got a CruWear Native. Was the heat treat aiming for a bit too high hardness?
Probably, considering the tip popped off without any hard work being done to it. Spyderco seems to always nail the heat treat!
A lot to say here.
Geometry is far more important than steel choice. However I have serious doubts about bark river quality. If you can find a maker who does heat treating in house and consistently uses a steel like cruwear and heat treats it properly it’s likely to blow everything else away.
Higher HRC doesn’t necessarily mean it’s harder to sharpen.
I’ve had a roll in cruwear and it only took minutes to repair my edge. Not as fast as something like 8670 but still it was quick.
I don’t like some simple steels for the fact that I don’t want to stop to sharpen and strop constantly. I need something that’s gonna go for a while. I’m also not a fan of O1 anymore when you can get might higher levels of toughness and better edge retention from 8670.
I’m a very firm believer in picking the steel, the grind, and the heat treat for the intended application.
For example I’m building two kitchen knives for friends who don’t use expensive handmade knives but would love them if they had them. I’m not going to choose a carbon steel because I don’t know if they’ll maintain it. I’m also not going to do a PM stainless steel even though something like magnacut would be awesome. The awesomeness would be lost on them. So I’m going to be using AEB-L @64 hrc because it’s simple tough and easy to maintain. Where as if I was to build the same knife for me it would be in 4V.
Aebl is a seriously under rated steel in my opinion, it's a very good all rounder, i really like cruwear, o1, and aebl, never tried 8670 so might need to give that a go.
Super steels are great for edge retention but harder to sharpen and not as tough as spring steels.
You don't think that 3V is tougher than most plain carbon steels? Hell of a lot tougher than 1095.
1095 is unusually brittle 1084 is tougher at the same hardness and better steels like 52100, 80CrV2, 5160 are much tougher for the hardness..@@joem5903
I can take my A2 Gunny and Featherstick/Baton with it all day and with stropping it's right back to hair popping sharp, but with my 2 ESEE's in 1095 if i Featherstick/Baton with those it requires some stone/stropping action to get back into working order. I am definitely not impressed with how either of my ESEE's perform but if you're just doing a day trip they can handle the task.
Your one of the first to speak the truth. I believe many UA-cam and internet people don’t really use their knives. They all just keep repeating marketing.
The truth is heat treatment is very important. Esee has its knives 56-57 maybe even 55. When steel is in those levels it’s tough but it’s soft.
I prefer spring steels or 80cv , 1080,1075 . But I prefer the Rockwell to be no less then 58. The hardness is what gives you edge retention. The trick is being hard without being brittle.
Really want a great knife get treva puuko the company that makes the skrama.
The terrava jaakaripuukko and the Skrama are amazing. I have both and love them. I believe they are 80crv2. Great steel
I'm the same way. I love basic steels 1055,1095,80crV2 AEB-L, 14C28N etc (I'm kinda obligated as a Scandinavian lol). But I also love the Japanese steels, and the PM steels from all the large makers, Udderholm, Bohler, Crucible, Carpenter etc. But as you say all come with their pros & cons. One can take the moment to just appreciate a steel for what it is, and weigh what you need or want for a specific use case 8a hunt, a hike). Always good to have options and not go crazy always chasing the next "best thing" in steel all the time. If a new steel comes and it's really good we will hear about it no matter what and just try it when we want and got the opportunity without stressing to get it in hand first. As you also mentioned heat treatment is also so important. So in my eyes it's better to let makers play with it and find what works for them eventually. And then try the new steel when it's been optimized within the knife makers and the knife community. Greetings from Norway and sorry for the long post
Thing is, The low carbide steels like basic carbon and those stainless you mention can hold much finer edges. Lower angle, finer grit. Finer edges cut better.
The irony is that super-steels often don't and can't hold such a razor edge and don't cut as well, but they will cut longer at a medium sharpness.
@@mikafoxx2717 Well that depends on what "super steel" we are talking about. And also what you are cutting. When cutting something very abrasive or plastic etc. Those High vanadium Tool steels & PM steels are the way to go. Harder steel and thinner edges.
@@Cid_1 The issue with them is usually low toughness, which causes the edge to chip instead of wear on normal cutting tasks. Something like Rex45 is more tough at the same hardness as something like 10V, thanks to much less carbide, but they still get very good edge retention because it's mostly abrasion thanks to greater edge stability from rolling(hardness) and chipping(toughness).
Try some 8670 if you like tough steel that's much easier to sharpen than 3v. Most all carbons have about the same edge retention but the ease of sharpening really comes from a good ht.
3v is already super easy to sharpen though lol
It all depends on heat treatment
What are you guys using to sharpen? 3V is not hard to sharpen even on water stones.
I know. Back before I owned a 3v knife, I was hesitant to buy one because of all the people claiming that they are so hard to sharpen. Now I own a ton of them. I’ve never had an issue. Anyone who knows how to sharpen a knife on water stones shouldn’t have a problem.
Hey thanks for the suggestion. I had not heard of that Steel previously. Saw blade steel. The Nickel is interesting in a non Damascus steel. I read it adds toughness. Someone else said it contributes to corrosion resistance as well. Not sure that’s right tho. I’m going to grab something in that steel.
That Fox River looks terrible, you need to send that back to BRKT and Mike will take care of it for you. I have the same handle scales on a Fox River in A2. Field dressed many whitetails, never any problem. I would expect more from Cru-Wear and would suspect there was a quality issue with that one, unless you did something really stupid with it.
I want a Fallkniven A1X or S1X in magnacut! I heard they are slow releasing it in the next couple of years. The only super steels i have are low end CPM-3V and S35VN. They are fairly easy to sharpen and hone. The Bark River Aurora 3V was somewhat of an initial disappointment. The edge geometry was terrible so I reprofiled it right out of the box. Now it is super sharp and very easy to maintain.
Bark river knives suck, not just the sheaths but the ultra thick convex edges are always burnt from the grinding process and always chip. Get an lt Wright knife and get it in an old timey tool steel that is made for the kind of work the knife is going to do
I second this. I’ve had the same experience with bark river, yet my LT Wright knives are perfection straight from the factory
@@troyounce3295 Yep it has been prooven many times that bark river severely burn the edges and they are not willing to listen at all. Instead they blame the users and bash them publicly. Not really what you want a company to act like. Also their quality control is horrible and they just dont care about that either (they say it is normal as they are hand made). But they are selling them in a state not aceptable at all (especially at that price). Also there have been several occasion where they had mislabled steels (labled as a supersteel like 3V, cru-wear, ..., but when it was tested it actually was A2). (I do have several Bark River Knives as i like their designs but i wont buy any new ones as they are more Problems than what they are worth)
All you need is diamond stones and cruwear.
I have some supersteel knives. They really are glorified letter openers. I still like having them. But for tough woodwork, when hiking or camping, I only trust my low-end to medium priced knives.
Excellent video, looking to buy my first bushcrafter. Heck, my first purchase was the Benchmade Bugout last week. I get cut up on watching videos and steel, but reality is I will probably only baton and feather stick. I like going home and touching up my Benchmade in the evening.
For Outdoors Knives, for Camp use, I like 1095CV or 1095HC. But, after owning and using my Demko Knives, Magnacut FREEREIGN, I have become a Magnacut Fan, too. Also, I like CPM-3V, too... Great Video and great discussion and point of view. :-) Peace, Stiletto :-)
Edge retention is night and day. And all steels are easy to sharpen. Once you understand whetstones. None are a big deal.
My big choppers are 3V. My small knives for detail work and game are magnacut and S90/110v. If I plan to beat on something, 1095 can't be beaten. The right tool for the job! And heat treatment means everything. I also have a lot of D2, which is one of my favorite all-around steels with Benchmades treat. I think they're a master of D2.
They are good at s30v also
I guess I will find out soon. I have an OKC SP-8 in 1075, a Bark River Bravo 1.5 in CPM3V, a Survive! Knives GSO 5.1 in Magnacut on pre order and an OKC Kukri in 1095 on backorder. I also have 3 acres of woods to test them in. I don't see myself batoning or chopping with any of my folders.
I carry Benchmade S30v daily.
Agree with you on this. Own zdp, cruwear, 4v, S30v. Also own 154cm, BD1N, Aus8, Aus10, 5160 and 1095. Only sharpening issue I have is with the zdp189. But - overtime I have used and maintained enough of these steels to really appreciate the ingot steels and how well they strop back to very sharp clean edges. With the carbon steels, I can get a working edge back from a totally dull edge on a flat rock and leather field strop. In terms of usability in the field, I prefer the old school carbon steels for that reason.
For daily carry I really like 154cm and love BD1N. Not a huge fan of 14c, D2 etc. going to try some Nitro V soon. I have high hopes it’ll be like my 154cm and BD1N. Stain-less, take a high polish and strop back after a day of work.
Great video. +1sub
Why are you not fond of 14c28n?
@@daveyboy6985 The examples I’ve used, I find it doesn’t hold up as well in my daily use as the other stainless steels I’ve used. Seems to wear more than the spyderco Bd1n and Gerber and Kizer 154cm I have. Even after several edges, it just deforms faster and worse. Comes back ok
@@greghaddock8316 I have two ruike knives in 14c , I like them a lot.
I've heard civivi do an awesome heat treat on that steel as well.
I've no experience with 154cm,, from what I've heard it's a great steel, usually a bit pricier in where I live in New Zealand though.
I have sharpened a few 14c28n blades. All took a wicked edge, polished up nicely and stropped back really well. I have not owned any so shouldn’t really post an opinion. I am that guy at my work place that ppl going their knives to for sharpening etc. I get to sharpen lots of different steel. I am currently working on a BM Claymore Mini in cpm D2. It’s moving pretty easily. Maybe too easy.
Anyway I intend to grab a good knife in 14c and give it a go.
Happy trails
High carbon steel will always be my choice.
UNFORTUNATELY THAT CRUWEAR, THAT 3V & THAT MAGNACUT ARE ALL FRUIT OF THE “FAMOUS” BARK RIVER LOOM: YOU JUST CANNOT JUDGE THOSE STEELS BY THAT HEAT TREATMENT… (IE: NOT THE BEST!)
Tops 1095 is awesome stuff.
In what way? If you watch their heat treament process on the shop tour video, it is pretty bad.Heat the edge in a forge and dunk it in a really nasty looking bucket of oil. I hope that was a joke. 1095 does NOT do the "get it hot, gt it wet" thing well. That is 1080/1084.
@Joe M I own their Brakimo and it holds an excellent edge . I've worked with plenty of steels sharpening and reprofile work and their 1095 is good stuff.
I've used the Brakimo plenty and have had no chipping or warping . My experience has been fine, I also have their Msk 1 scandi which gets a wicked edge only negative was they are to thick but I fixed that problem an she slices great .
@@Airik1111bibles Because they are thick. Key statement. How thick?
@@joem5903 tops 1095 is good and so is esees, I have never had an issue with their 1095.
What spesifically makes one steel hard to sharpen, and why are fixed blades harder to sharpen?
When it comes to blade steel, I am a bit of a snob but my snobbyness is weird.
One of my primary metrics for steel is that it has 0.8% carbon. That might sound odd but I read a few scientific reports that says 0.8% carbon is the limit for well blended carbon in steel. 1.0% carbon has a higher chance of forming carbides.
Other than that, I prefer alloy steel over plain steel.
Thus I really like 8670, 80 crv2, and the like
I will use other steels, because I know that the temper is more important than the steel, but my preference is my preference.
That makes a lot of sense. 1084 is a lot tougher than 1095. I have no idea who thought it would be a good idea to put 1095 on impact knives.
@@thiago.assumpcao
Like I said before "Heat treatment is where knives are made." Yet there are other less interesting reasons why manufacturers pick their steels, Familiarity and ease of manufacture. CPM-3V, one of my favorite steels, is very difficult to grind (it eats up abrasives), so few manufacturers mass produce CPM-3V knives (Fortunately the number is growing by the day).
"An acceptable blade smith can turn a block of 52100 into a good knife, a blade master can turn a block of 1060 into a great knife."
There is another reason why people pick steel with 1.0% carbon, the high carbon holds an edge better (and a lot of people will gravitate towards this). It is what the market wants so manufacturers produce what the customer will buy.
@@thiago.assumpcao people thingk that "toughness" means you can bend the knife, etc. 1095 froms plate martensite so not really tough at all. Even at low hardness like 57. 1084 at 61 is tougher.
@@johnsmithfakename8422 they pick the steels for the price point... because they know some morons will pay hundreds of dollars for a super steel knife that won't cut any better than a cheaper carbon steel knife. It's all just to get you to spend more money.
I personally like carbon steel for my outdoor knives. An my choppers are 1080 and 5160.
I don't see a benefit spending crazy money on stainless that will break or chip.
Personally I don't buy knives that cost more then $200. I can't justify when my other knives preform amazing.
What about aebl isn’t it insanely tough but also stainless and pretty easy to sharpen
@@ShoahBiz I've never had any experience with it.
same here, point of diminishing returns is real.
Most people wont be doing things that make "super steel" necessary. It's cost & sharpening time vs what you can do with it compared to cheaper knives is still just too far apart. I've been using knives, machetes & even training with swords for decades & i've lost knives, i've broken them etc. They are tools that are meant to be used up over time. Everybody seems to get hung up on "the indestructible knife" & these companies use that to fleece people.
Ya l, I had to learn the hard way too. My problem is I still hate coated blades and I live in a coastal rain forest environment. While I still like the carbon steel performance, trying to keep up with the maintenance has proven to be next to impossible for me. 3V has been a good balance with enough stain resistants for me to use year around. AEB-L is next on my radar...
1095, 01 and like tend to rust on me before I can even use them...
What do you guys do with your knives that I must not be doing? I own a small island that I go to frequently. I’m surrounded by salt water. I use my 01 knives just like my stainless steel knives and process beach wood, fish and coconuts. I’ve never had issues with rust unless I’m completely careless. A quick wipe on your pants and back in the sheath and it’s good to go. When you’re done for the day. A light coating of food safe oil is all it takes to keep it pristine until next use. I can’t tell if it’s exaggeration, or if it’s just user error. That being said, I love AEB-L. Definitely my favorite steel.
I have no problem in the summer months. It’s the cold rainy season 30-50 degrees were things are drenched for months at a time. You can’t travel the forest without getting soaked. Foggy most of the day from moisture with moss growing 20 feet up all sides of the everything.
Been hunting in environments that seasoned outdoorsmen could not keep a fire going. Any dry enough tinder was in the middle of 8” dead standing trees. And once you get to it you need to act fast before it starts wicking up moisture.
just wipe the blade off and throw a little mineral oil on it and it's fine. Taking care of carbon steel knives is simple.
14c28N is the best because it is a cheap supersteel. It's super tough, super stainless, and super easy to sharpen, with double the edge retention of steels like 1095, 52100.
I wouldn’t mind trying out more 3v, I have them in Lon Humphrey and a Survive Knives 4.5 bushcraft. They are pretty nice and Cruwear in a couple of Spyderco folders.
I have loved the cru wear on my 2 spyderco pm2's, never had any other knives in cru wear though but i would like too, but nobody really makes knives with it where i'm from, tempted to pull the trigger on a 3v bark river right now but never had any experience with 3v.
I love 1095 personally.
I have 4 knives in cpm 3v I absolutely love it my favorite steel arm two bark rivers a bravo 1 a bravo 1.25 a Benchmade 200 pukko and a cold steel master hunter . Never had anything go wrong with any of them .as for sharpening Iv only had to stropp so far had them for a few years now .
Thank you.
Besides with releases like magnacut, there's a strong preference to stainless over stain"full"
Tops 154cm sells like hot cakes
Can't keep them stocked
Esee is releasing more and more in s35vn. People don't want the added maintenance and stress of having to constantly oil a tool or carbon steel blade, keep it dry, and separate from the sheath, and God help you if you're out in the forest with your wrinkler If it starts raining.
With 154cm you're good to go
yeah wiping your blade off and putting oil on it is so hard, my god how did people survive for hundreds of years using carbon steel.
@@MovieGuy666 because they just dealt with it and didn't complain.
I know how to maintain carbon steel it's not rocket science.
I don't need the added maintenance of tool and carbon steels
So I avoid them, not a steel snob but there's steels that work for me so I use those
I am tired of seeing 3v everywhere though however
what maintenance... you wipe the knife off and throw some oil on the edge. It's not rocket science.
@@MovieGuy666 Yes, the fact that you have to wipe and oil the fucking thing every time you use it is indeed maintenance, lmao.
There's a 3v trailmaster coming out it looks pretty good but damn is it expensive... Do you have any busse knives with infi how do they compare..
I just picked up the Cold Steel Trailmaster in 3v and I LOVE IT!
IEDC it constantly.
Wore it today in fact.
I previously had purchased the Trailmaster in SAN MAI 3 and it cost me MORE! Also, there is a massive difference between those two knives believe it or not. The 3v gets way sharper, and stays way sharper. The SAN MAI 3 is more corrosion resistant so I swap them out accordingly.
Couldn't agree more bro.
I concur sir!
I think this just points out that everyone rates steels in their own way. For me 1095 and A2 have been a disappointment. 1095 heat treated to where it keeps an edge becomes very brittle and left soft to where it rolls instead, needs sharpening all the time. A2 is much better in terms of performance and the difference to 3V isn't obvious, but it rusts and I just don't get all the people who whinge about sharpening 3V and don't mention the pain in the a@@ that keeping non stainless steels from rusting. Cut a lemon and five minutes later you either have a marked blade or a hell of a blade cleaning job to do.
I also don't understand how people are getting their knives blunt. If you use 3V on wood, it takes an age to dull. And it only takes a minute with a fine diamond sharpener to bring it back to hair shaving sharp. Edge damage is another thing. If you abuse your knives, any steel will chip or roll and softer steels are so much easier to re-profile.
In terms of wear resistance and sharpening. The two are the same thing and I'd rather spend an extra 3 minutes sharpening for an extra 3 months of use.
In terms of value, that's where super-steels fall down and it's not makers ripping us off. Super-steels are expensive to buy, far more expensive to work, and take a lot more time, so they end up multiples more expensive. Thankfully there are a stack of moderately priced steels that have excellent performance ratios. In non-stainless 80Crv2 and A2 are hard to beat and in stainless 420HC (preferably by Buck), 14C28N, AEB-L, CPM-154 are all excellent choices. 1095 for me is generally overpriced for what you get, especially ESEE and TOPS, though hats off that they are US made and I still love their designs. When they put out an ESEE 6 in a different steel, I'll probably get one.
Which brings me to my final point, the most important aspect of any knife is the design. Victorinox use terrible soft steel but in such an amazing configuration that I can't stop myself for using one for my EDC. Don't let the steel stop you from getting the knife design that suits you, unless you are like me and really want something stainless.
Cpm-154 is pretty close to S35vn right?
@@ShoahBiz Not really. They are both powder metallurgy steels with similar levels of Chromium but CPM 154 is a much older and simpler formulation delivering reasonable wear resistance while being easy to work and moderately tough. S35Vn is a refinement of s30V. S30V has great wear resistance but has a very high level of Vanadium carbides that can make it a bit chippy and difficult to work. s 35Vn backs off on the Vanadium and adds some Niobium, improving tougness and machinability. CPM 154 should take a slightly finer edge and will be cheaper and easier to work. S35Vn will be a bit more expensive but the edge will last longer. Both are excellent steels though.
A2 really only works one way 60 Rc. No room for any real tweaking of the HT. Same with 5160. 58-59 is it toughest. HT at 1500-1525 and temper at 375-400. It gets less tough when you go below like 57Rc because of TME. Same with Cru Forge V lower than 59 Rc.
I've seen 1095 cut through a steel pan and still cut paper and its not even a tough steel. None of this matters without extremely thin geometry and very tiny margins. Nobody needs "super" steels or can even tell any benefit from them in real life. We're all just spoiled as heck. Ill take a well done 1095 or d2 knife over any mediocre heat treated super steel, which lets be honest, 99.9 percent of knives on the market are.
You need wet stones for super steels it’s a breeze. I recommend viniv diamond stones
Lets be honest, nothing is really hard to sharpen when you got a belt grinder. So go for the knife which can hold an edge for the weekend outdoor and you are fine. And here the super steels mostly take the cake no?
A belt grinder is useless in a natural setting, if you're out in the woods and you chip or roll your knife edge a belt grinder isn't going to help.
@@MovieGuy666 Have you ever once actually tried to reprofile the edge of your knife on a rock in the woods? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You write a stupid reply under literally every comment of this video it's so obnoxious listening to you.
They all cut. I have knives in all the steels . A butcher’s steel and strop will resharpen any of them to a razors edge in minutes . Fact is a $10 machete brought a superpower to its knees in Vietnam
There is a difference between 1095 and 52100. Not so easy to find clean 1095....unless you buy W1. 1084 is tougher than 1095 and easier to work with. As for sucking sharpening, 3V is easy to sharpen and easier to hand finish than CruForgeV.
it's easy to sharpen it if you have a fancy sharpening system but out in the middle of nowhere i'll take a steel that you can sharpen with a stone.
@@MovieGuy666 I used water stones. With a lot of steels including 3V, if you have trouble sharpening, then your edge may be too thick. You can put a very thin edge on a 3V knife. Many people woudl be surprised is they knew how thin some of those big cutting comp cleavers are taken down at the edge.
How do you like Nitro V?
NitroV is a solid budget steel. Quite fine grain size which helps it hold very fine edges with high polishes. It is quite similar to 14c28n (chemically and also in my use).
No company will ever claim their steel is the best at everything. This is just silly, making a counter claim to a non-existent claim that no one other than, perhaps, users "UA-cam experts" would make. CPM 3V 30 years from now will still be considered to be in the top 10 of what is considered to be a well balanced, all-around great knife steel. Unless there is a miraculous leap in metallurgy, CPM 3V is an amazing knife steel. I base this claim loosely on the fact that it is already over 25 year and it is still in the top 10 (if they are being honest and paragmatic). CPM 3V is for many in the top 5 today.
Bruh u need to buy some spydercos, they are the only ones doing good production heat treats. The brands u have here dont heat treat well.
3v doesn't even get harder than around 60 rc my man. That's basically it's max usable hardenability. Its not a steel that can get very hard at all to begin ith. Also idk what kind of production knives you're getting that are done with these heat treats, cuz all the off the shelf production shit I know of is all the same crap, and no one really does outdoor knives harder than about that. Unless its custom. Even then, you generally don't find anything other kitchen knives and some edc stuff done very hard. But like I said, never in 3v cuz that steel literally can not get that hard on a physical level. It's not possible. As far as sharpening... this falls under the ruberik of machining. The more "wear resistance" any steel has, the lower the machinability ie requires more grinding for instance to sharpen or to dull, the higher the so called "edge retention." Actually most knife bros tends to just mix those two things like they're the same but they're not. The whole abrasion thing falls under the general rubrik of what's called machinability. Edges can degrade in other ways than just abrasion. Even corrosion can make an edge dull. Anyway. None of this stuff is very straight forward. The basic way I can say this is vanadium carbides... any steel which has more than say 3 or 4% at the most vanadium will benefit from if not require non traditional abrasives, what are called "superabrasives" meaning diamond or cbn. If you use that, the abrasion resistance aspect of those vanadium carbides isn't an issue. The more nuanced issue which comes down to all kinds of factors is the actual sharpening itself.. like aside from how much grinding it takes or how strong of an abrasive you need, the dynamics of sharpening different steels varies. Some are just more of a challenge than others to get to the same standard of keenness. Why? Well it comes down to the heat treat but it also comes down to the actual grain structure of the steel itself. This is why imo 3 of the best user steels are AEBL, XHP and ZDP-189... in order from least abrasion resistance and most toughness, to most abrasion resistance and least toughness. These are steels which use chromium carbides. They sharpen very easily and very well with standard abrasives, take great edges and great polishes.
Anyway. Steel itself isn't as relevant as many folks assume it is for a knife. So many things matter more. Especially if you stay realistic and make real world comparisons. Most users will not be able to tell the difference between vg10 and 154cm if they tried.
I'll buy your bark river magnacut off you and save you all that pain brother..
Finally a video talking about supersteels that were never meant to be used on knives. 420hc and n690co are going to be the best steels for practical use. If your knife is above 60hrc it’s not going to perform well, it might perform well at slicing through paper but that’s 0.01% of tasks that a knife was meant to handle
You think magnacut won’t perform well above 60hrc?
Oh, so this is where that comment is from.
just a way to bilk money from people
Super steels are super for being able to hold an edge on extremely thin geometry knives. They have no use on these types of knives
My favorite is Elmax an they discontinued it so screw ‘em I going back to 1095.