But when you are deep in the mountains backpacking or hunting with a light Worksharp pocket sharpener, 1095, 5160, 154CM, 420HC and 440C are easy to touch up. Hell, I just sharpened my 650 Nighthawk with the Worksharp pocket sharpener in a couple of minutes. The blade glides through paper just with the weight of the blade. I guess it depends on your philosophy of use. Like you said user serviceable in the field or have a long lasting edge in your pocket for edc. Aren't the older steels generally tougher? For example, Larrin's toughness chart (of Magnacut fame) shows that 420HC is one of the toughest steels out there.
@@proknifesharpening wow and all this time, i thought nuclear supremacy and the willingness to engage in war for LITERALLY NO REASON WHATSOEVER was what made us great.... the more you know...
No heartstrings cut Uncle Randy is still going strong with his Buck, sharpened on mugs and windows, livin life. His laughing at dopes like us with more money yet poor AF because of massive knife collections that won't look great when they appear on the news one day when our unbalanced lives implodes and Uncle Randy bags our partners after he impresses them that he isn't a knife tool ; p
The weird thing does come around to the routines people get into with knife care. I took a buck woodsman in 420HC car camping for a couple nights and used it for feather sticks, all my package opening and cooking tasks, though not a lot of food prep, and had been using it for all the usual EDC stuff for a couple of months prior. Finally felt a bit rough, but I didn't sharpen it. I honed it on my kitchen steel hone at home and it went right back to being as sharp as it was before. That surprised me. Because of the mid tier rockwell but good heat treat, it's hard enough to work well and can take literal moments to hone or sharpen. that being said, absolutely love some fancy high end stuff on a tiny EDC blade because it just stays sharp as shit for all the little daily stuff.
The Bushcraft Boys strike again! I had a Buck fixed blade once that was so soft, I drank it as a Smoothie. And Uncle Randy's ghost hainted me until I p***** it out again 😅
I'm looking for diamond coffee mug. I'm also very happy that you are doing all of the cutting,and we can just borrow the results. Like your videos, keep on cutting.
These older steels are perfect for hunters, fishermen and campers. It's all about ease of maintenance imo. Hide is terrible on an edge, and you're going to hit bone, stone or dirt. Edges get used hard enough that whatever steel I have I'm going to sharpen it after every dressing. Better a knife or 2 that takes 5-10 minutes than something that's going to take 30-45 and some complicated sharpening setup. The new steels are very cool, but like most technologies nowadays, they're convenient, not maintenance friendly.
Exactly. I can smell carbon steel, even in carbon damascus. Can smell it in cutted food too. But only fresh cut. Love D2 steel, even if it is very hard to resharpen. But in newer steels, s30v is good to resharpen, s90v is hell. You can do well with "tormek" or so, but in the hand, old fashion 1095 (or 14260) steel is very nice. You can resharpen it with river stone, or the bottom of ceramic cup or plate.
Magnacut doesn't required any special setup to sharpen. If all you want is a good working edge and you haven't thrashed the blade, 10 minutes on a diamond plate can get you back yo a really solid edge.
If you're gotta upgrade steels you need to also update your sharpening techniques. Just a ceramic rod or a small diamond stone maxmet wouldn't be that hard to touch up if you know how. Though steels are getting very advanced and i can see your point.
I think it’s fun to work with and collect a variety of steels so you can see what works best for whatever tasks you have. I’m finding that a steel doesn’t necessarily need to be stainless for what I use my knives for and I don’t mind a patina or keeping up with proper maintenance.
I think the differences between whatever steel is actually being used in production knives matters less than just about anything else about the thing, including how it's designed, and the end user. In my experience, even as poorly designed as so many edc knives are, the companies making them generally know better than your average end user. I think a lot of end users foolishly hyper focus on things that aren't especially relevant like largely because most of them struggle to actually sharpen anything. Which blows my mind but I'm finding it's true. It's insane to me how many folks make a big deal out of sharpening. I'm not sure if there's a lot of disabled folks or maybe everyone on social media is 13.
@@jeffhicks8428 My Dad taught me how to freehand sharpen my Victorinox when I was about 11. I used a small but decent stone he handed down and learned there. Still have the knife and the stone and that was over 3 decades ago. I think I take for granted the value of this until I touch someone else’s edge.
@@jeffhicks8428 There is definitely this unwarranted fear of sharpening out there. I think some people make the assumption that if they take their blade and put it on a stone they will somehow ruin their knives forever…not sure where this thought originated, but I hope people understand how important and necessary of a skill it is if you carry and use your knives daily.
@@NedKnives I couldn't agree more that it's an important skill...it doesn't come easy for us all. My brother in law picked up a Alpha Hunter White Knight for 250 because someone destroyed the edge.
@@lowowl that's awesome man, I wish my dad would have been interested in knives like I was. I taught myself how to freehand sharpen, and it took hundreds of hours to get micro consistent, as in plus/minus 0.5-1 degree. Now I have thousands of hours of experience and I enjoy it as a pass time, it's almost therapeutic to me, especially when I'm stropping
Remember that a (long) while ago (boy, am I old) 420HC and 440C were considered "supersteels". Same with 14C28N, CM154, and D2. 10 or 20 years from now, Maxamet and Magnacut will be budget-tier steels. Or we'll be using lightsabers.
@@bobjohnson1633hold your horses. It took us ages to get this far and most steels we're using were made for high speed machining, not knives. 420HC, 14c27, 440c and such were made for knives.. that's why they're pretty good for them. D2 is an oddball but it works well enough.
Bravo. The ease of sharpening is why I still like 420HC knives. I can carry a small ceramic rod and hone the edge very easily while hiking and camping.
@@Dan-Commando The whole point of the modern super steel is they can make it hard without making it brittle. Super hard brittle steel has been around forever. You just don't temper it and it'll be glass hard even if it's just 440c or something.
That comment right there is the primary reason I put all of my super steel blades in a box. 1095, 5160, 154CM, 420HC and 440C work and are easy to sharpen when you are deep in the mountains backpacking or hunting. I just sharpened my 1/4" 650 Nighthawk on a Worksharp pocket sharpener in a couple of minutes. Goes through paper with just the weight of the blade.
@@Ruger44Redhawk I made my camping knife-machete 10 inches blade of 1095 and im super happy with it. it didnt cost me a fortune and plenty of guys i meet on the field even asked me to make one for them but its a 1 of 1 design.
I'm reminded of the time you fixed that s110v blade on the Work Sharp Field Sharpener. I feel like a challenge to sharpen Maxamet or Magnacut on a coffee mug would be a good one.
Magnacut would probably actually be okay. It would take a while but its fine grain should make it at least possible. The carbides would get kinda mangled but that's just how it is. Maxamet like that would drive any man insane.
That's the Buck Smoke Jumper, made by SB Blades. It's a shame Buck no longer works with SB. One of the best blades to come from there was the Titan Buck 110, made with blue micarta and s90v drop point blade.
I like the best of both worlds. Classic styles, modern steels. I got one of the thousand Buck 110s made in Magnacut and Ebony scales from that stealth run they did recently. With that BOS heat treat on an already ultra high performing steel... The thing is insane. I cut a lot of cardboard at work and the MagnaBuck just doesn't care.
I’d love to see a cut test with unlimited stropping. Like 420hc vs s35vn vs m390 how many cuts before you need a new edge, not a strop up. I’d imagine things would even out more. S35 strips way easier than m390, would that mean it could post similar numbers. Great video!
So many things would be relevant before the differences in abrasive resistance between those steels, like say the geometry of the given knives, and the heat treatment used on each of those steels. I'll take a better designed knife with a less abrasive resistant steel over a sharpened pry bar made of rex121 or whatever silliness folks get foamy over any day. If you want a knife that cuts a lot of rope you want a steel that most of all is tough and able to get quite hard, therefore it can be made thin and will keep cutting. However, It would be interesting to compare say 64 rc magnacut to 64 rc aebl assuming the knives were optimally designed, and see how that works out, with or without touchups on the way. I think most folks would be surprised how little the difference in abrasive resistance between these steels matters at that point. What you're going to find in actual use is that any steel you use will eventually get dull and need to be resharpened. The question is, then what? If you can't even maintain the thing without special abrasives, that's kinda an issue you need to be aware of for one thing. The question becomes how does the edge wear vs how does it sharpen. I feel like folks who either don't know how or are afraid to try to sharpen knives are the ones who obsess over "edge retention" when what they really mean is abrasion resistance anyhow. Edge retention is a lot more complicated than just abrasive wear. If you're rolling over or chipping out at the edge, that's not really "retention" either is it? What about what kind of edge a given steel will take in the first place? What if a steel can hold a keen edge 2x as long as another but it takes 4x as long to sharpen when they do go dull? Which is "better?"
@@martinerhard8447 nomenclature/semantics aside, sure stropping is a form of sharpening. Im talking the difference of stropping quick to get a finer edge back after minor deformation/dullness/wear vs breaking out the stones/guided system and doing a full re sharpen.
THANKS FOR DROPPING BY! That was a great, fast, fun, informative time. I LOVE a steel comparison video. I'll record your results in my notes. Thanks, again. (P.S. do you have a coffee(?) account or other way we can send a tip from time to time?)
I’m always left wondering what the cutting needs of the average knife wielder is in the first place. The super steels are amazing, but how many of us actually need it? I spent many a year working and cutting in blue collar with 400 series steels and I was happily equipped.
Looks at you bro breaking a sweat and getting a workout 👍👍. Thanks for sharing your findings . After sharpening for a while now if I had to do it over again I would have mastered the ceramic rod and strop earlier . Changing the profile is where it gets more involved than most folks want to deal with but man I love making them too sharp sometimes just for curiousity . If the edge rolls the rod cleans off that wire and then they’re real good to go for a while in my experience . Totally dogging a twosun129 lately . Seems like a good one after a few months now and a delica 4 has been ripping through everything as well .
My friend has lionsteel knife made of magnacut steel and even with every day use (mostly cardboard processing to dumpster after unboxing goods) he needs resharpening two, maybe three times per year. I know, I do sharpening on all knives of all friends and family.
For the differences between the buck knafs, what's the behind the edge thickness between each one? As the thinner behind the edge will gain more cuts. In a way you can think of It like having an angle at 12 deg even though you put a 17 deg angle. It really could be down to the heat treatment too. Ones smaller than the other. If they use the same protocol for both that could mean the smaller one needs less time at temp in the heat treatment, but its getting more. So now its microstructure is not as idea. If they were done on different batches they can be done differently. Batch to batch are difficult for mass production companies to get consistent.
In the 60's and 70's Buck made knives in 440c. They shipped them with cards explaining that lower carbon higher chrome steels are more corrosion resistant but aren't adequately durable for use. Old 440c Buck's are awesome. Some of their current custom shop options are too. 420hc in my opinion is a gas station knife steel.
I have butchered and processed (cut all the meat off the bones and packaged it) deer with both the 119 and 110 (I mostly used the 119 for the field dressing and quartering and the 110 and 119 for cutting the meat off the bones and into pieces). They did pretty well, the 119 definitely dulled as I went but it stayed sharp enough to do the whole job with no problem. Even after skinning and field dressing (hitting bones and cutting deer hair is really hard on edges, their hair is like wire) the 119 could easily slice meat. I've also processed deer or other animals with a Gerber LMF II in Sandvik 12C27N and it did fine (the serrations were surprisingly handy for cutting skin and hair. Blasphemy I know), Lionsteel M4 in M390, Mora knives (stainless so also 12C27N), Condor knives in 1075 (especially the Bushlore, Swamp Romper and Low Drag. I would occasionally touch up the edge as I went), TOPS Fieldcraft, Becker BK2, Gerber Gator folder(s), Cold Steel Code 4 (did incredibly well even with the thin aluminum handles), and many other knives I can't remember without going to look my piles of knives. Honestly, they all did well. In real life knife tasks aren't that hard on them and the quicker they dull the faster they sharpen, so edge retention is almost always a wash. Woodwork and game processing isn't terribly corrosive and I clean and dry knives after I'm done so corrosion resistance is also generally a wash. The Buck 119 handle is genuinely a bit slick when bloody but still doable. The blade is a little long and the tip is a little too pointy to be ideal but again... worked fine.
Well said. We're dealing with mass casualty effect due to very clever ( psy op level ) marketing strategies, employed by knife manufacturers. A knife is just a tool, and one of the simplest ones at that. I'm more into axes, for example, and they are much more challenging to make right, in my opinion.
A few years ago I happened to get a limited run of 110 in s30v on sale only for $74 as I remember. It looks exactly the same as the original one but can cut, so pretty nice knife.
my buck 110 is in 420HC and never had a SINGLE issue with it , still working strong and im sure im using it more than your Magnacut one and i didnt break the piggy.
@@Dan-Commando Not a single issue? So it's never gone dull? If you use a 420c blade every day and you haven't sharpened it once then I hate to break it to you but that thing is either dull as a railroad spike or you never actually use it for anything. If you have been sharpening it then you definitely sharpen way more than anybody with a magnacut blade.
@@Jake-bt3fc😂😂😂 sounds like you don't know how to sharpen a knife? That doesn't take a whole lot of minutes with milder steels. BTW, that sort of magic steel would be more brittle than the "older" ingot steels. This is a huge factor for a field knife.
Yeah, super steel didn’t exist when Buck knives were designed. What did exist is the knowledge and talent of sharpening knives. I feel like the relevance of old steels is that they highlight that heritage. I know that I went out of my way to learn to sharpen knives and I think you have done the same. I think that most people have little idea how to do it properly though. I further think that a person who doesn’t know how to sharpen properly will want super steel and then be stuck with a dull blade they can never get sharp again. The skill of putting an edge on a knife comes first in knife and steel choices. A person who doesn’t know how to sharpen should get a Buck and keep it sharp all the time before graduating to more challenging steels.
Yep I remember as a kid how long it took to get good at sharpening knives. At that time, the 1970's it was mostly 420 or 440c or some type of carbon steel. I have lots of knives and I've played around with the super steels and have the equipment to deal with them. Honestly I'd rather use simple steels. I still love 1095 on traditional knives. On more modern knives I like 154 CM, S30V or XHP. I like steel that I can sharpen quickly on a Sharpmaker. If its too hard for the Sharpmaker I generally wont buy it. I think a lot of these guys today cant sharpen so they like the harder steels because they can use them for a long time before they get dull, then they pay someone to sharpen it for them.
@@Skinnymoose true. They also think diamond sharpeners are actually good for sharpening. When in reality they are only good for edge shaping BEFORE the actual sharpening 😂😂😂
Great video! Regarding the "bent" blade on Maxamet, I have a PM2 in Maxamet. Installed Flytanium scales on it, could NOT get the blade centered. Realized blade is curled. Called up Spyderco, and apparently that is one of the downfalls of Maxamet, they curl during the heat treat, but apparently some of that is acceptable in production. So, if you buy Maxamet, check it right away first with a flat surface. I'm stuck with a warped blade that's off center. Love the patina and performance, but annoyed by it being off center.
Which model is this? I have a pm2, 3, and sage and they’re great. That super sucks. If it was a workhorse manix lw or something I’d definitely regrind it to thinner and more centered
@@lindboknifeandtool It's a PM2. If I did a regrind, I think it would shorten the blade to try and get it out. It has a slight curve from thumb hole to tip. I never noticed it stock, because somehow they managed to get it centered in the factory configuration. Slap on the aftermarket scales, off center. When you sight down the blade it's obvious. So, just giving my PSA to sight the spine of any Maxamet blade before you commit. The trouble is, even if I could get it to center up better, I know it's there and it bugs me that it's not perfect! Lol.
@@squarebody4546 hey, on the bright side - it sounds like it would be a good candidate for a daily user, you would not care about. Unless the curvature actually affects the knife's cutting function. A lot of people buy knives to just sit in the drawer or as a toy, never to put to use.
Very down to earth summary that the old steels such as 420hc have their place. Many users like that you can get a sharp edge with a basic sharpener or file vs a dedicated diamond stone or rod. For steel junkies with mirror edges Magnacut is a huge deal and are eager to try it's limits. A Magnacut machete in a thin tramotina or imacsa style comes to mind. Lucky to have so many choices vs just 20 years ago.
Maybe a worthwhile data point, my Montana Knife Company Blackfoot in Magnacut rusted in numerous spots when worn next to my skin while hiking and sweating. I was surprised given spyderco was gonna use it in their salt series knives.
420 has an advantage in toughness, ie resistance to chipping. chipping will cost you even more time at the sharpener. how that balances in real life vs the 420 simply getting dull with wear though, i don't know.
One thing that I think bears mentioning is that not all Buck 420hc knives are created equal. Some have the Paul Bos heat treatment which gives them a few extra hardness points on the Rockwell scale, while others (typically Buck's more budget models) do not. The Paul Bos heat treatment is what sets apart Buck knives using 420hc above other brands using the same steel.
I like VG-10 and N 690 also 154 ,that said my favorite is a SAK Spartan and a 1950 ish Barlow the Barlow I bought on ebay and carried a SAK since I was about 10 im 60 now different is I guess I prefer the ease of sharping of the older steels. 🦉
VG-10 sucks. Doesn't hold an edge worth of chit. Sorry. I would actually prefer 1086 more, even though it's a bit softer. But at least super tough and easy to sharpen in minutes.
I have a German hunting knife from the 50s and it's crap compared to steels now. I also have a Kershaw ATS-34 blade from the late 90s and a Buck BG-42 from the early 200s that would certainly compete in quality with knives about 5 years ago. The last 5 years though have been a spike in steel development. It's been amazing.
I have a 125 yo draw knife with hardened steel insert, and it would blow most of these powdered toys out of the water. The steel is super hard and not brittle , i had to use diamonds while restoring the tool. The biggest mistake is to think we are so much more advanced now. We aren't.
I think timing the sharpening from from Dull would be an interesting comparison. Also Magna-Cut performs scary well in these tests, far exceeding what the CATRA numbers would suggest
The best thing about magnacut steel when properly heat treated, it has great edge retention and is a great all-around worry free steel - that offers pretty good toughness, excellent corrosion resistance, fairly easy sharpening on a variety of stones, and of course it's close to ultimate tier edge retention. Maxamet is a use specific steel: An ultimate tier in edge retention for long durations of softer cutting and slicing tasks, in less corrosive environments and no hard impacts or flexing hard use tasks. It's great for those cutting tons of certain cloth, tape, rope, nylon strapping, soft plastics/woods, rubber parts and cardboard.
@@TheScotchaholic I guess tungsten carbide's (Sandrin) intended use is the same as Maxamet's. The way I used it, I'm kinda surprised it didn't break. It's really flexible and even survived a fall on hard ground. But yeah, good luck getting that sharp again...
@NoNamer123456789 According to Sandrin, their proprietary tungsten carbide mix, enables it to be a bit more durable than the standard industry tungsten carbide. And, you're right, sharpening will be no walk in the park. There should be some helpful video sharpening notes and advice on UA-cam. Good luck, man. Sharpening Maxamet wasn't that bad, but still more time consuming even with quality Ultra Sharp 600/1200 diamond bench stones. I don't know about sharpening Sandrin's tungsten carbide, since I didn't buy one, nor do I want the grief, heh.
@@TheScotchaholic for me it wasn’t bad just time consuming. Although I can’t justify it when K390 is 80% as good and twice or three times as easy to sharpen.
@nandayane Lol, I'll bet the Sandrin is very time consuming. More time consuming than Maxamet or ZDP-189 I'll bet. Call me spoiled with pleasant experiences and results with great mid tier beater stainless steels like S35VN, AUS8/10A, 8/9/10CR, and 14C28N - all at more reasonable prices and solid all around performance. Magnacut is looking to be my new favorite high tier all-around stainless. Agreed with the K390 - Cheers!
Those Buck 110 Slims were under $20 around here for awhile. Pretty insane deal. Not quite as nice as the original but it definitely a nice back up or tacklebox knife.
I prefer non super steel for cleaning deer. I haven’t come across a super steel that can fully process a deer without sharpening. So then it becomes do you want to sharpen 10 times for 1 minute or do you want to sharpen a super steel knife once for 20 minutes?
Two big questions: what happens if instead of slicing paper as the cutoff you check if the knife can shave hair? My guess is that the difference would be much less dramatic. Also, how feasible is it to hone maxamet? With 420 HC you can do a few passes on ceramic and be back in business.
That would result in an even greater 'defeat' for 420HC. Michael Christy has some great content on super steels like Maxamet, and he tests for 'front end sharpness' retention which is exactly what you described. From my anecdotal experience, the difference is less dramatic between steels like 420HC and S30V, but supersteels are in an entirely different class. Honing maxamet would be done on diamond rather than ceramic, but the process is the same. However, stropping with diamond compound as you use it is more effective.
Why would shaving sharp be the bar that's set for testing? A knife continued performing well even after it's left shaving territory. If snything it would make 420 look even worse due to how much more quickly it's absolute edge will get worn away
Irl the buck steel is the lowest grade steel that is 100percent capable..I want to see the time lapse of a cut test between these kind of steels including sharpenings of the buck to do the maxamet number also including the first sharpening of maxamet and the return to sharpness??
Currently carrying one knife with M390 and another with A2. Sometimes super steels annoy me/aren’t the best for every application. As always, adore ur vids dude.
For the sake of a little upkeep, I'm taking 30% more edge retention. Assuming a linear dulling of each edge through similar daily use, 30% is an extremely significant number.
I think the budget tier steels will always have a place. I never gave much thought to the field sharpen-ability since I don't find myself camping or anything like that. I'm curious what you think of 14C28N as a budget steel and if it is as serviceable as 420HC.
I'd kind of like to see this too. I like to think of price as the 4th category of steel performance alongside corrosion resistance, edge retention and toughness.
420HC is basically a lower carbon version of the 14C28N/13C26/12C27 range of Sandvik steels. Very simple with virtually no carbides. Budget knife 14C28N will generally be harder (but still very easy to sharpen due to lack of carbide), a little less tough and a little more stainless than 420HC. It's a straight upgrade IMO.
Buck 110s were 30 $ here in the us and buck 119 was 50 $ since inflation 110 is now 60 and 119 is 70 which is crazy considering steel and everything else I love buck but honestly the price is getting out of hand
Looks like Buck must be doing something right with their heat treatment, they outperform the opinels by a big margin if I go by your previous opinel tests.
Interesting conjecture. The problem is that the 420 is always looked down on, yet stainless, easy to sharpen, and no problems whatsoever. Ultra steels are rigid, hard to sharpen and when they are cutting for a year without sharpening, what advantage is that compared to the the steel that needs a monthly strope? I do not think that one should pay high price for saving 5 minutes every month.
That was awesome… I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on who does certain steels better overall… such as Spyderco, Benchmade buck Magnacut… and so on I believe a while back you did Buck S30V… but as you and some others note there are trade offs… so who does it best of what you’ve tested
Love your content, very educational and sometimes humorous. I'm a little confused. I'm looking for something tougher than S30V, (either Cruwear, M4 or Magnacut), also considered Nitro-V and V3, for basic duties around the house and yard, so I've been reading a lot. Your Magnacut edge retention is way, way better than others are reporting. In fact Larrin has his Larrinite/Magnacut scored as 5 on his spreadsheet for edge retention, same as Cruwear, whereas he has M4 at 6. Why are your tests showing Magnacut at 1000 slices and M4 if I recall a year ago at about 600? I would have predicted Magnacut at 500 slices per what I thought I read. If Magnacut is really that much more edge retentive than M4 (almost double), and Cruwear (more than double), it really is a miracle steel, given its corrosion resistance and toughness, plus not hard to sharpen. I wonder if the Magnacut Mule was at 63, and the Spyderco production knifes in the Salt Series, the first of which is the Native 5 Salt, at 60 or 61, and how that affects edge retention.
I totally agree, i've never tried the maxamet but i wanna try one. Any recommended tipe of blade on maxamet steel? Maybe something short with only cutting tasks? Hi from Sydney.
The 420HC on my 1995 Leatherman Tool is insane level sharp. So I bought a car from a dealership used. Had it four years.. lost job, sold it back to same dealership. Guy was like “wanna make sure you got everything? It’s gonna be awhile” fine.. triple checked everything then was just board so was like I’m going to read that owners manual thing why not. Boom, out drops this Leatherman. I dunno who had it before me but they made the edge mirror polished and so sharp I refuse to use it, no chance I’d ever be able to get it back to that. The one time I tested it on a piece of toilet paper it actually cut right through no pressure. And although I don’t use the knife I use the rest of it often. It’s been in my sweaty pants pockets, rain, sun.. everything. Not one issue. So my experience with it has been great. I see that blade as an emergency only cutter. I have ~15 other knives I can use for daily stuff or camping. No one will care or ever read this but what a love to daily carry? A cheap ass Kizer Swuidward I managed to snap up last year in June on Amazon for like $30 shipped. The 154CM has been fantastic. I’ve only resharpened it one time and I used the little keychain Worksharp with a Diamond/Ceramic cylinder either side. I’m not very good at sharpening but it’s back to cutting paper effortlessly so whatever.. doesn’t look as nice as you guys can do it but practice makes perfect (I hope). After watching this.. I just want a MagnaCut blade even more. My only concern is finding one that will come with a factory edge that’s done perfectly so I could in theory go years without having to buy real stones and attempting to sharpen it.
Nice story, you really should get into sharpening, the type of edge you described on your leatherman i can put on every knife, im not saying this to brag but rather as encouragement as it is a wonderful feeling that makes you love knives even more... but i have had few decades of practice now.... but if you want easy and kinda cheap way to sharpen get the Spyderco sharpmaker... most factory edges that are almost there can get razor sharp with just few passes on the sharpmaker. And sharpening serrated blades on it is even easier.
I've done a lot of different types of work with lots of different people thousands of miles apart different languages. I lived off the land. No one brought a 300 dollar knife to work and said this sure is better than your 80 dollar knife boy I'm satisfied. What they did is they brought a utility knife to work and 50 or 100 pack of razor blades to go with it. They bought the 300 dollar knife to feel safe. The only other blade I've seen used in work was a machete or sickle.. At one time or another I also saw the work tools I've mentioned used as weapons, so I don't know if the 300 dollar one ever performed unscheduled surgery. I used a Buck Advance on someone this year..40 dollars. I threw it in the bushes in another state. That's the second time in 13 years of being out of prison that I've done that, and since then bought a 200 dollar Spyderco, and that does daily cutting like a bag of cornuts; but I really have it because of the hardness of the steel and I want it to be able to go through clothing, belts, whatever.
What do we think about that cliff stamp video where he cuts dirty carpet? He finds 12c27 outperforms 10v in this circumstance. I think to myself how often I cut soft abrasive materials, and for me it’s basically never. I carried 52100 for a while and noticed increased edge retention against my other steels s30 and up. Most of my dulling comes from deformation. I’ve been experimenting with high strength steels like rex 45, 76, and now t15. It seems as long as the carbide is super fine, it lasts long enough. My two pence
Now the next question. Is it worth the extra hundreds to not have to hit the 440 on a ceramic stone a few times. I know I have no problem doing it while watching TV but that's just me. I know plenty love the extra edge retention means slot to some
To be honest I don't like these supersteels because of difficulty of sharpening in difficult conditions. Magic edge retention is great and impressive but every steel is dull someday and common but good steels you can sharp on piece of stone from river. You can't renew the edge of super hard powder steel in this way. That's why I like the most steels like D2, 14c28n, 9cr18mov, niolox, 80crv2 from good producers like ruike, real steel, steel will, CJRG, Civivi or QSP. Pretty good edge retention and you can still renew the edge on coffee mug or rock from river.
Credit where it's due the boomer knives are always good fun to get out and use my buck 112 has the aftermarket thumb stud it lives in my belt pouch for when I go camping or on a walking trail or just want to carry something oldschool
Great video as always Pete. I think an interesting fact is that meat packers and butchers that use their knives all day long still use that"old fashioned" steel to earn a living. They keep a honing rod with them and use it frequently to keep the edges keen. Time is money at work so I wonder if a few frequent quick swipes is more efficient than trying to keep an edge on a "super steel".
They use cheap blades that are basically disposables and they go through them in a fast pace with agressive sharpening methods Where you can find the higher grade steels is with chefs but then not on beater knives that get in contact with frozen food or bone
@@martinerhard8447 The Butchers, Farmers and pro Fishermen, I know personally, here in New Zealand, prize their knives equipped with very thin, good quality, often German or Japanese, HC stainless steel blades, I agree theyre relatively soft, making them tough and easy to brush up on a steel or strop, sure they wear out and theyre not that expensive, but I wouldn't describe them as cheap, or disposable. A coupe of local companies; Victory Knives NZ and Svord make some good examples
@@dougbulldog9947 Then the butchers you know dont butcher a lot. Butchers in industry butcher so much that the wear on the knife is so high that the knives dont last very long. They use stainless blades with grippy plastic handles that can be steam sterilized. Take a look at the giesser primeline series to know what I mean. They are intended to be cheap disposables so they can be replaced easily. Doesnt make sense to get a 50$+ knive in a field where it wont last a month My family has a cattle farm so I know quite a lot of butchers and the uncle of my gf is a fisherman that is famous enough that he constantly appears in fishing magazines. But he isnt a lineworker at a fishfarm and only butchers a small percent of the fish that those guys butcher daily.
Knife testing is not only about cutting ropes/edge retention. It's also about break resistance/toughness with harder use. Just have a look a two video's made by Joe X. The Buck 120 general phenolic knife with the 420HC steel, and the Buck 120 pro micarta with the S35VN steel. The steel 'snobs' would always go for the longer edge retention. The 420HC is a much better choice for stabby tasks. The difference in toughness is huge. Many of those 'supersteels' failed miserably. Didn't live up to their super better in everything reputation. Yes cutting ropes will make them look great. But a few passes with a ceramic rod and the softer steel is good to go.
@@CedricAda I hear you. Maybe just remind viewers of the harder testings and other outcomes due to that regarding toughness. Edge retention is ofcourse an important part of the knife's abilities. Fun part. The expression edge retention is used by Joe X when chopping concrete and a steel pole and then to check how the edge is holding up. 😁🤷♂🤦♂
@@CedricAda He's entertaining for sure. And although not a thing that says it all. It's interesting to see where the knife's limits are. Becker's were not considered a good survival knife according to him. I strongly disagree. The BK9 held up the car chopping and stabbing fine. Really well. It was the concrete that made it break. But so was the Junglas breaking at the concrete. His conclusions are regularly so so . If following his thoughts, we all end up with thick edges and tips and soft steel. When in fact the men in the 1900's and before, who lived the survival life, had way less quality knives.
I dig it and I get it . Im in the camp of easy resharpening . Before all the new steel was out we got by fine , we really did . Theres been plenty of tasks Ive done with , what Ill call " regular " steel , and I had to stop and resharpen .... for like 1 minute . It doesnt bother me . Retention is awesome but once its done its gonna take some real time and skill to sharpen . Do you happen to know what steel is used on swiss army knives ? I carry a recruit at work [ cabinet shop ] and I can get that thing to shave hairs in a minute . Whatever steel it is , Id like to know because Id get other pocket knives with the same steel . Thanks for the video , your time and work
1.4110. It's a little worse than 440a but they have an okay heat treat on it. If you reslly struggle to maintain steels like s35vn, cruwear, or msgnacut in the field then it's a lack of ability, knowledge, or effort on your part. Sure, steels like zdp-189, maxamet, or rex 121 are hell to maintain, but most balamced super steels can strop back reasonably well and can sharpened reasonably quickly on a simple and widly available diamond plate. I'd personally go so far as to argue that, using diamonds, it's easier to sharpen modern steels than it is older ones. The higher hardnesses respond better to diamond and I find the burr is easier to deal with.
420hc and other budget steels still have practical applications, just not in edc knives. The easier a metal is to sharpen the softer it is, the softer it is the worse it will stand up to every day tasks and need sharpened. Of course metals are a thing of balance so harder metals can chip and otherwise suffer from weak blade geometry and also tend to be more prone to corrosion. Some premium steels like s90v offer a good balance and cut through most things (not rocks) without significantly dulling or scratching the blade.
420hc has A to S tier toughness as well. When you are doing a job that exceeds the edge stability of any steel such as scraping rust off of a trailer or opening up a hole in plaster wall you will appreciate a cheap tough steel like 420hc. You might say this is knife abuse and use another tool and I would agree on a magnacut knife which looks outstanding by the way. but a 420hc knife will do this job without any risk of overall failure so why not use it as long as you do it in a way you are not going to hurt yourself. As such I think there will always be a place for 420hc class steels for jobs you would not want to do with a cutting optimised blade.
440C (like Boker still uses) gets a lot of distain, but if well done, it's still a decent everyday steel. And actually a tad better than 420HC in all regards. I have a knife still in service that was made in Japan in the early 1970's for a big box store brand. But what about the new steels? I have to admit, I love them more. Buck is producing a 110 in Magnacut... I'll be straight though, S30V in a multitool is what a carry most, but it's not my PREFERRED steel, but it's my EDC.
Can you get ahold of some spyderco 15v? I'm dying to see what the retention is about with this hyped steel. Thanks bro been enjoying your videos for years
But when you are deep in the mountains backpacking or hunting with a light Worksharp pocket sharpener, 1095, 5160, 154CM, 420HC and 440C are easy to touch up. Hell, I just sharpened my 650 Nighthawk with the Worksharp pocket sharpener in a couple of minutes. The blade glides through paper just with the weight of the blade. I guess it depends on your philosophy of use. Like you said user serviceable in the field or have a long lasting edge in your pocket for edc. Aren't the older steels generally tougher? For example, Larrin's toughness chart (of Magnacut fame) shows that 420HC is one of the toughest steels out there.
Remember you aren't just cutting rope when comparing a Buck, but also Uncle Randy's heartstrings.
LOL!!
@@proknifesharpening My beard just birthed an eagle.
@@proknifesharpening wow and all this time, i thought nuclear supremacy and the willingness to engage in war for LITERALLY NO REASON WHATSOEVER was what made us great.... the more you know...
No heartstrings cut Uncle Randy is still going strong with his Buck, sharpened on mugs and windows, livin life. His laughing at dopes like us with more money yet poor AF because of massive knife collections that won't look great when they appear on the news one day when our unbalanced lives implodes and Uncle Randy bags our partners after he impresses them that he isn't a knife tool ; p
😂 so true.
I knew the maxamet and Magnacut would outperform, but I really didn't think it would be by that wide a margin.
The weird thing does come around to the routines people get into with knife care. I took a buck woodsman in 420HC car camping for a couple nights and used it for feather sticks, all my package opening and cooking tasks, though not a lot of food prep, and had been using it for all the usual EDC stuff for a couple of months prior. Finally felt a bit rough, but I didn't sharpen it. I honed it on my kitchen steel hone at home and it went right back to being as sharp as it was before. That surprised me. Because of the mid tier rockwell but good heat treat, it's hard enough to work well and can take literal moments to hone or sharpen. that being said, absolutely love some fancy high end stuff on a tiny EDC blade because it just stays sharp as shit for all the little daily stuff.
I once had a buck m9 bayonet in 420hc but mistook it for play dough one day and sculpted a donut out of it.
Epic!
The Bushcraft Boys strike again!
I had a Buck fixed blade once that was so soft, I drank it as a Smoothie. And Uncle Randy's ghost hainted me until I p***** it out again 😅
I'm looking for diamond coffee mug.
I'm also very happy that you are doing all of the cutting,and we can just borrow the results.
Like your videos, keep on cutting.
These older steels are perfect for hunters, fishermen and campers. It's all about ease of maintenance imo. Hide is terrible on an edge, and you're going to hit bone, stone or dirt. Edges get used hard enough that whatever steel I have I'm going to sharpen it after every dressing. Better a knife or 2 that takes 5-10 minutes than something that's going to take 30-45 and some complicated sharpening setup. The new steels are very cool, but like most technologies nowadays, they're convenient, not maintenance friendly.
Well said. Rope is not meat. And I want a softer steel not just for resilience, but for ease of sharpening. Maintenance friendly.
Exactly. I can smell carbon steel, even in carbon damascus. Can smell it in cutted food too. But only fresh cut. Love D2 steel, even if it is very hard to resharpen. But in newer steels, s30v is good to resharpen, s90v is hell. You can do well with "tormek" or so, but in the hand, old fashion 1095 (or 14260) steel is very nice. You can resharpen it with river stone, or the bottom of ceramic cup or plate.
Agree to disagree but if that’s how you feel I prefer vanax
Magnacut doesn't required any special setup to sharpen. If all you want is a good working edge and you haven't thrashed the blade, 10 minutes on a diamond plate can get you back yo a really solid edge.
If you're gotta upgrade steels you need to also update your sharpening techniques. Just a ceramic rod or a small diamond stone maxmet wouldn't be that hard to touch up if you know how. Though steels are getting very advanced and i can see your point.
I think it’s fun to work with and collect a variety of steels so you can see what works best for whatever tasks you have. I’m finding that a steel doesn’t necessarily need to be stainless for what I use my knives for and I don’t mind a patina or keeping up with proper maintenance.
I think the differences between whatever steel is actually being used in production knives matters less than just about anything else about the thing, including how it's designed, and the end user. In my experience, even as poorly designed as so many edc knives are, the companies making them generally know better than your average end user. I think a lot of end users foolishly hyper focus on things that aren't especially relevant like largely because most of them struggle to actually sharpen anything. Which blows my mind but I'm finding it's true. It's insane to me how many folks make a big deal out of sharpening. I'm not sure if there's a lot of disabled folks or maybe everyone on social media is 13.
@@jeffhicks8428 My Dad taught me how to freehand sharpen my Victorinox when I was about 11. I used a small but decent stone he handed down and learned there. Still have the knife and the stone and that was over 3 decades ago. I think I take for granted the value of this until I touch someone else’s edge.
@@jeffhicks8428 There is definitely this unwarranted fear of sharpening out there. I think some people make the assumption that if they take their blade and put it on a stone they will somehow ruin their knives forever…not sure where this thought originated, but I hope people understand how important and necessary of a skill it is if you carry and use your knives daily.
@@NedKnives I couldn't agree more that it's an important skill...it doesn't come easy for us all. My brother in law picked up a Alpha Hunter White Knight for 250 because someone destroyed the edge.
@@lowowl that's awesome man, I wish my dad would have been interested in knives like I was. I taught myself how to freehand sharpen, and it took hundreds of hours to get micro consistent, as in plus/minus 0.5-1 degree. Now I have thousands of hours of experience and I enjoy it as a pass time, it's almost therapeutic to me, especially when I'm stropping
Thanks for all your hard work, Pete. It doesn't go unnoticed, mate. 😊🤗❤️✌️🖖🤘👋
Remember that a (long) while ago (boy, am I old) 420HC and 440C were considered "supersteels". Same with 14C28N, CM154, and D2. 10 or 20 years from now, Maxamet and Magnacut will be budget-tier steels. Or we'll be using lightsabers.
Magnacut is the first of a new class of steel. Magnacut will soon be the shittiest of its class.
@@bobjohnson1633yeah ummm, the OP literally said exactly that.
@@bobjohnson1633hold your horses. It took us ages to get this far and most steels we're using were made for high speed machining, not knives.
420HC, 14c27, 440c and such were made for knives.. that's why they're pretty good for them. D2 is an oddball but it works well enough.
Like the pace & subject matter on these uploads. Nothing beats twisted sisal for comparing different steels ! Glad I caught this one early !
Best knife channel….by far….excellent work young man!!
Bravo. The ease of sharpening is why I still like 420HC knives. I can carry a small ceramic rod and hone the edge very easily while hiking and camping.
I can carry my K390 camping, hiking, work and fishing and never having to sharpen it.
If you ever use it any it will need to be sharpened just facts man
@@diezelvh4133 you will break it someday , the harder they get the more brittle they are.
@@Dan-Commando The whole point of the modern super steel is they can make it hard without making it brittle. Super hard brittle steel has been around forever. You just don't temper it and it'll be glass hard even if it's just 440c or something.
@@Jake-bt3fcyep. Something like MagnaCut is twice as tough as 1095 when it's 5 points harder, and it's stainless with double the edge retention.
Another factor favoring the Buck fixed blade knife is some advantage from its length, so increased leverage when you're pressing down on the rope.
The older steels are easy to sharpen and touch up in the field with ceramic rod to clean game and prevent rust. They are very affordable.
That comment right there is the primary reason I put all of my super steel blades in a box. 1095, 5160, 154CM, 420HC and 440C work and are easy to sharpen when you are deep in the mountains backpacking or hunting. I just sharpened my 1/4" 650 Nighthawk on a Worksharp pocket sharpener in a couple of minutes. Goes through paper with just the weight of the blade.
The Bucks shown here in this video didn't seem "very affordable".
@@Ruger44Redhawk I made my camping knife-machete 10 inches blade of 1095 and im super happy with it. it didnt cost me a fortune and plenty of guys i meet on the field even asked me to make one for them but its a 1 of 1 design.
@@justinw1765 They're still using the cheapest knife steel.
I'm reminded of the time you fixed that s110v blade on the Work Sharp Field Sharpener. I feel like a challenge to sharpen Maxamet or Magnacut on a coffee mug would be a good one.
You, sir, are a monster.
Magnacut would probably actually be okay. It would take a while but its fine grain should make it at least possible. The carbides would get kinda mangled but that's just how it is.
Maxamet like that would drive any man insane.
@@Freakmaster480 "a while" (aw) = 5 forevers (f) or one never (n).
So, sharpening super steel x coffee mug = 1n.
I lucked into getting a 110 with red GFN handles, and CPM-154 steel. It's lightweight, and I love the steel. I really wish they still made this combo.
That's the Buck Smoke Jumper, made by SB Blades. It's a shame Buck no longer works with SB. One of the best blades to come from there was the Titan Buck 110, made with blue micarta and s90v drop point blade.
Can you test d2 steel from ganzo fh series to your other d2 knives. That would make a great video to watch.
You are killing it! Love that you’re back!
I like the best of both worlds. Classic styles, modern steels. I got one of the thousand Buck 110s made in Magnacut and Ebony scales from that stealth run they did recently. With that BOS heat treat on an already ultra high performing steel... The thing is insane. I cut a lot of cardboard at work and the MagnaBuck just doesn't care.
I’d love to see a cut test with unlimited stropping. Like 420hc vs s35vn vs m390 how many cuts before you need a new edge, not a strop up. I’d imagine things would even out more. S35 strips way easier than m390, would that mean it could post similar numbers.
Great video!
Good point. I'd be interested to see as well. But I would prefer if it were manual stropping as opposed to his tormek stropping wheel.
Agreed. Good idea. Mimics real usage…
mh so you mean sharpening in between? Strops with compound on basically give you a new edge
So many things would be relevant before the differences in abrasive resistance between those steels, like say the geometry of the given knives, and the heat treatment used on each of those steels. I'll take a better designed knife with a less abrasive resistant steel over a sharpened pry bar made of rex121 or whatever silliness folks get foamy over any day. If you want a knife that cuts a lot of rope you want a steel that most of all is tough and able to get quite hard, therefore it can be made thin and will keep cutting. However, It would be interesting to compare say 64 rc magnacut to 64 rc aebl assuming the knives were optimally designed, and see how that works out, with or without touchups on the way. I think most folks would be surprised how little the difference in abrasive resistance between these steels matters at that point. What you're going to find in actual use is that any steel you use will eventually get dull and need to be resharpened. The question is, then what? If you can't even maintain the thing without special abrasives, that's kinda an issue you need to be aware of for one thing. The question becomes how does the edge wear vs how does it sharpen. I feel like folks who either don't know how or are afraid to try to sharpen knives are the ones who obsess over "edge retention" when what they really mean is abrasion resistance anyhow. Edge retention is a lot more complicated than just abrasive wear. If you're rolling over or chipping out at the edge, that's not really "retention" either is it? What about what kind of edge a given steel will take in the first place? What if a steel can hold a keen edge 2x as long as another but it takes 4x as long to sharpen when they do go dull? Which is "better?"
@@martinerhard8447 nomenclature/semantics aside, sure stropping is a form of sharpening. Im talking the difference of stropping quick to get a finer edge back after minor deformation/dullness/wear vs breaking out the stones/guided system and doing a full re sharpen.
THANKS FOR DROPPING BY! That was a great, fast, fun, informative time. I LOVE a steel comparison video. I'll record your results in my notes. Thanks, again.
(P.S. do you have a coffee(?) account or other way we can send a tip from time to time?)
I’m always left wondering what the cutting needs of the average knife wielder is in the first place. The super steels are amazing, but how many of us actually need it?
I spent many a year working and cutting in blue collar with 400 series steels and I was happily equipped.
There. Thanks.
Looks at you bro breaking a sweat and getting a workout 👍👍. Thanks for sharing your findings . After sharpening for a while now if I had to do it over again I would have mastered the ceramic rod and strop earlier . Changing the profile is where it gets more involved than most folks want to deal with but man I love making them too sharp sometimes just for curiousity . If the edge rolls the rod cleans off that wire and then they’re real good to go for a while in my experience . Totally dogging a twosun129 lately . Seems like a good one after a few months now and a delica 4 has been ripping through everything as well .
Pete, mate, never forget you're doing the good lord's work with your tests.
I feel like I don’t have to be perfect or patient or ocd because this man has it covered for me. Great and informative review.
My friend has lionsteel knife made of magnacut steel and even with every day use (mostly cardboard processing to dumpster after unboxing goods) he needs resharpening two, maybe three times per year. I know, I do sharpening on all knives of all friends and family.
Great vid btw I love the way you did this test I would love to see other videos with this format
You've struck on something here. I need a diamond coffee mug for my magnacut Buck 110.
For the differences between the buck knafs, what's the behind the edge thickness between each one? As the thinner behind the edge will gain more cuts.
In a way you can think of It like having an angle at 12 deg even though you put a 17 deg angle.
It really could be down to the heat treatment too. Ones smaller than the other. If they use the same protocol for both that could mean the smaller one needs less time at temp in the heat treatment, but its getting more. So now its microstructure is not as idea.
If they were done on different batches they can be done differently. Batch to batch are difficult for mass production companies to get consistent.
In the 60's and 70's Buck made knives in 440c. They shipped them with cards explaining that lower carbon higher chrome steels are more corrosion resistant but aren't adequately durable for use.
Old 440c Buck's are awesome. Some of their current custom shop options are too. 420hc in my opinion is a gas station knife steel.
With your unique testing I can see the need to remain fit and flexible. Yoga and sisal go hand in hand.
Great Video Pete! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences.
I have butchered and processed (cut all the meat off the bones and packaged it) deer with both the 119 and 110 (I mostly used the 119 for the field dressing and quartering and the 110 and 119 for cutting the meat off the bones and into pieces). They did pretty well, the 119 definitely dulled as I went but it stayed sharp enough to do the whole job with no problem. Even after skinning and field dressing (hitting bones and cutting deer hair is really hard on edges, their hair is like wire) the 119 could easily slice meat. I've also processed deer or other animals with a Gerber LMF II in Sandvik 12C27N and it did fine (the serrations were surprisingly handy for cutting skin and hair. Blasphemy I know), Lionsteel M4 in M390, Mora knives (stainless so also 12C27N), Condor knives in 1075 (especially the Bushlore, Swamp Romper and Low Drag. I would occasionally touch up the edge as I went), TOPS Fieldcraft, Becker BK2, Gerber Gator folder(s), Cold Steel Code 4 (did incredibly well even with the thin aluminum handles), and many other knives I can't remember without going to look my piles of knives. Honestly, they all did well. In real life knife tasks aren't that hard on them and the quicker they dull the faster they sharpen, so edge retention is almost always a wash. Woodwork and game processing isn't terribly corrosive and I clean and dry knives after I'm done so corrosion resistance is also generally a wash. The Buck 119 handle is genuinely a bit slick when bloody but still doable. The blade is a little long and the tip is a little too pointy to be ideal but again... worked fine.
Well said. We're dealing with mass casualty effect due to very clever ( psy op level ) marketing strategies, employed by knife manufacturers. A knife is just a tool, and one of the simplest ones at that. I'm more into axes, for example, and they are much more challenging to make right, in my opinion.
A few years ago I happened to get a limited run of 110 in s30v on sale only for $74 as I remember. It looks exactly the same as the original one but can cut, so pretty nice knife.
My Buck 110 is in Magnacut and I have a custom leather sheath to carry it in.
my buck 110 is in 420HC and never had a SINGLE issue with it , still working strong and im sure im using it more than your Magnacut one and i didnt break the piggy.
@@Dan-Commando Not a single issue? So it's never gone dull? If you use a 420c blade every day and you haven't sharpened it once then I hate to break it to you but that thing is either dull as a railroad spike or you never actually use it for anything.
If you have been sharpening it then you definitely sharpen way more than anybody with a magnacut blade.
@@Jake-bt3fc😂😂😂 sounds like you don't know how to sharpen a knife? That doesn't take a whole lot of minutes with milder steels. BTW, that sort of magic steel would be more brittle than the "older" ingot steels. This is a huge factor for a field knife.
@@elim7228 yeah, it takes 2 seconds to sharpen it then it takes 2 seconds to make it dull again, lol.
Yeah, super steel didn’t exist when Buck knives were designed. What did exist is the knowledge and talent of sharpening knives. I feel like the relevance of old steels is that they highlight that heritage. I know that I went out of my way to learn to sharpen knives and I think you have done the same. I think that most people have little idea how to do it properly though. I further think that a person who doesn’t know how to sharpen properly will want super steel and then be stuck with a dull blade they can never get sharp again. The skill of putting an edge on a knife comes first in knife and steel choices. A person who doesn’t know how to sharpen should get a Buck and keep it sharp all the time before graduating to more challenging steels.
Yep I remember as a kid how long it took to get good at sharpening knives. At that time, the 1970's it was mostly 420 or 440c or some type of carbon steel. I have lots of knives and I've played around with the super steels and have the equipment to deal with them. Honestly I'd rather use simple steels. I still love 1095 on traditional knives. On more modern knives I like 154 CM, S30V or XHP. I like steel that I can sharpen quickly on a Sharpmaker. If its too hard for the Sharpmaker I generally wont buy it.
I think a lot of these guys today cant sharpen so they like the harder steels because they can use them for a long time before they get dull, then they pay someone to sharpen it for them.
@@Skinnymoose true. They also think diamond sharpeners are actually good for sharpening. When in reality they are only good for edge shaping BEFORE the actual sharpening 😂😂😂
Great video! Regarding the "bent" blade on Maxamet, I have a PM2 in Maxamet. Installed Flytanium scales on it, could NOT get the blade centered. Realized blade is curled. Called up Spyderco, and apparently that is one of the downfalls of Maxamet, they curl during the heat treat, but apparently some of that is acceptable in production. So, if you buy Maxamet, check it right away first with a flat surface. I'm stuck with a warped blade that's off center. Love the patina and performance, but annoyed by it being off center.
Which model is this? I have a pm2, 3, and sage and they’re great. That super sucks.
If it was a workhorse manix lw or something I’d definitely regrind it to thinner and more centered
@@lindboknifeandtool It's a PM2. If I did a regrind, I think it would shorten the blade to try and get it out. It has a slight curve from thumb hole to tip. I never noticed it stock, because somehow they managed to get it centered in the factory configuration. Slap on the aftermarket scales, off center. When you sight down the blade it's obvious. So, just giving my PSA to sight the spine of any Maxamet blade before you commit. The trouble is, even if I could get it to center up better, I know it's there and it bugs me that it's not perfect! Lol.
@@squarebody4546 hey, on the bright side - it sounds like it would be a good candidate for a daily user, you would not care about. Unless the curvature actually affects the knife's cutting function. A lot of people buy knives to just sit in the drawer or as a toy, never to put to use.
Very down to earth summary that the old steels such as 420hc have their place. Many users like that you can get a sharp edge with a basic sharpener or file vs a dedicated diamond stone or rod. For steel junkies with mirror edges Magnacut is a huge deal and are eager to try it's limits. A Magnacut machete in a thin tramotina or imacsa style comes to mind. Lucky to have so many choices vs just 20 years ago.
Maybe a worthwhile data point, my Montana Knife Company Blackfoot in Magnacut rusted in numerous spots when worn next to my skin while hiking and sweating. I was surprised given spyderco was gonna use it in their salt series knives.
420 has an advantage in toughness, ie resistance to chipping. chipping will cost you even more time at the sharpener. how that balances in real life vs the 420 simply getting dull with wear though, i don't know.
It balances well: tens of millions of Buck's sold worldwide vs. a few hundred thousands of powder toys. And
Buck is still selling lol
I've got a few s__v knives and I really enjoyed cru-wear and 3v but for most knife work I end up using regular ol' sandvik, usually frost/mora.
One thing that I think bears mentioning is that not all Buck 420hc knives are created equal. Some have the Paul Bos heat treatment which gives them a few extra hardness points on the Rockwell scale, while others (typically Buck's more budget models) do not. The Paul Bos heat treatment is what sets apart Buck knives using 420hc above other brands using the same steel.
I like VG-10 and N 690 also 154 ,that said my favorite is a SAK Spartan and a 1950 ish Barlow the Barlow I bought on ebay and carried a SAK since I was about 10 im 60 now different is I guess I prefer the ease of sharping of the older steels. 🦉
VG-10 sucks. Doesn't hold an edge worth of chit. Sorry. I would actually prefer 1086 more, even though it's a bit softer. But at least super tough and easy to sharpen in minutes.
I have a German hunting knife from the 50s and it's crap compared to steels now. I also have a Kershaw ATS-34 blade from the late 90s and a Buck BG-42 from the early 200s that would certainly compete in quality with knives about 5 years ago. The last 5 years though have been a spike in steel development. It's been amazing.
I have a 125 yo draw knife with hardened steel insert, and it would blow most of these powdered toys out of the water. The steel is super hard and not brittle , i had to use diamonds while restoring the tool. The biggest mistake is to think we are so much more advanced now. We aren't.
Learned a lot from all your hard work, thanks.. Any chance you'll test M398 soon ?
Would be very interested in how older "supersteels" like S30V or 20CV compare to the newer cruwear and maxamet?
Look at his play list, he has done them.
I think timing the sharpening from from Dull would be an interesting comparison. Also Magna-Cut performs scary well in these tests, far exceeding what the CATRA numbers would suggest
The best thing about magnacut steel when properly heat treated, it has great edge retention and is a great all-around worry free steel - that offers pretty good toughness, excellent corrosion resistance, fairly easy sharpening on a variety of stones, and of course it's close to ultimate tier edge retention.
Maxamet is a use specific steel:
An ultimate tier in edge retention for long durations of softer cutting and slicing tasks, in less corrosive environments and no hard impacts or flexing hard use tasks. It's great for those cutting tons of certain cloth, tape, rope, nylon strapping, soft plastics/woods, rubber parts and cardboard.
@@TheScotchaholic I guess tungsten carbide's (Sandrin) intended use is the same as Maxamet's. The way I used it, I'm kinda surprised it didn't break. It's really flexible and even survived a fall on hard ground.
But yeah, good luck getting that sharp again...
@NoNamer123456789
According to Sandrin, their proprietary tungsten carbide mix, enables it to be a bit more durable than the standard industry tungsten carbide.
And, you're right, sharpening will be no walk in the park.
There should be some helpful video sharpening notes and advice on UA-cam. Good luck, man.
Sharpening Maxamet wasn't that bad, but still more time consuming even with quality Ultra Sharp 600/1200 diamond bench stones.
I don't know about sharpening Sandrin's tungsten carbide, since I didn't buy one, nor do I want the grief, heh.
@@TheScotchaholic for me it wasn’t bad just time consuming. Although I can’t justify it when K390 is 80% as good and twice or three times as easy to sharpen.
@nandayane
Lol, I'll bet the Sandrin is very time consuming. More time consuming than Maxamet or ZDP-189 I'll bet.
Call me spoiled with pleasant experiences and results with great mid tier beater stainless steels like S35VN, AUS8/10A, 8/9/10CR, and 14C28N - all at more reasonable prices and solid all around performance.
Magnacut is looking to be my new favorite high tier all-around stainless.
Agreed with the K390 - Cheers!
Those Buck 110 Slims were under $20 around here for awhile. Pretty insane deal. Not quite as nice as the original but it definitely a nice back up or tacklebox knife.
Would have been cool to see how AEBL or 154cm held up to Magnacut
aebl similar to 14C28N
more toughness but less edge retention
Check the spreadsheet in the description. Outpost76's channel also links a spreadsheet comparing test results from several sources.
I prefer non super steel for cleaning deer. I haven’t come across a super steel that can fully process a deer without sharpening. So then it becomes do you want to sharpen 10 times for 1 minute or do you want to sharpen a super steel knife once for 20 minutes?
Two big questions: what happens if instead of slicing paper as the cutoff you check if the knife can shave hair? My guess is that the difference would be much less dramatic. Also, how feasible is it to hone maxamet? With 420 HC you can do a few passes on ceramic and be back in business.
That would result in an even greater 'defeat' for 420HC. Michael Christy has some great content on super steels like Maxamet, and he tests for 'front end sharpness' retention which is exactly what you described. From my anecdotal experience, the difference is less dramatic between steels like 420HC and S30V, but supersteels are in an entirely different class.
Honing maxamet would be done on diamond rather than ceramic, but the process is the same. However, stropping with diamond compound as you use it is more effective.
Why would shaving sharp be the bar that's set for testing?
A knife continued performing well even after it's left shaving territory.
If snything it would make 420 look even worse due to how much more quickly it's absolute edge will get worn away
Irl the buck steel is the lowest grade steel that is 100percent capable..I want to see the time lapse of a cut test between these kind of steels including sharpenings of the buck to do the maxamet number also including the first sharpening of maxamet and the return to sharpness??
Currently carrying one knife with M390 and another with A2. Sometimes super steels annoy me/aren’t the best for every application. As always, adore ur vids dude.
Interesting, I think it's incredible how many more cuts the Maxamet steel performed.
For the sake of a little upkeep, I'm taking 30% more edge retention. Assuming a linear dulling of each edge through similar daily use, 30% is an extremely significant number.
Sharpening maxamet isn’t really even that hard. It takes a nasty edge
Very good info, many thanks for taking the time and effort, keep bringing it Sir!
I think the budget tier steels will always have a place. I never gave much thought to the field sharpen-ability since I don't find myself camping or anything like that. I'm curious what you think of 14C28N as a budget steel and if it is as serviceable as 420HC.
I'd kind of like to see this too. I like to think of price as the 4th category of steel performance alongside corrosion resistance, edge retention and toughness.
420HC is basically a lower carbon version of the 14C28N/13C26/12C27 range of Sandvik steels. Very simple with virtually no carbides. Budget knife 14C28N will generally be harder (but still very easy to sharpen due to lack of carbide), a little less tough and a little more stainless than 420HC. It's a straight upgrade IMO.
@@mikeobrien4081 Vastly so!
KnifeMaker
This dude is in love with MagnaCut steel.....his missus should be worried
Buck 110s were 30 $ here in the us and buck 119 was 50 $ since inflation 110 is now 60 and 119 is 70 which is crazy considering steel and everything else I love buck but honestly the price is getting out of hand
Love the new glasses Pete!
Looks like Buck must be doing something right with their heat treatment, they outperform the opinels by a big margin if I go by your previous opinel tests.
Buck is known for really milking 420hc for everything it's worth.
Interesting conjecture. The problem is that the 420 is always looked down on, yet stainless, easy to sharpen, and no problems whatsoever. Ultra steels are rigid, hard to sharpen and when they are cutting for a year without sharpening, what advantage is that compared to the the steel that needs a monthly strope? I do not think that one should pay high price for saving 5 minutes every month.
That was awesome… I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on who does certain steels better overall… such as Spyderco, Benchmade buck Magnacut… and so on I believe a while back you did Buck S30V… but as you and some others note there are trade offs… so who does it best of what you’ve tested
Love your content, very educational and sometimes humorous. I'm a little confused. I'm looking for something tougher than S30V, (either Cruwear, M4 or Magnacut), also considered Nitro-V and V3, for basic duties around the house and yard, so I've been reading a lot. Your Magnacut edge retention is way, way better than others are reporting. In fact Larrin has his Larrinite/Magnacut scored as 5 on his spreadsheet for edge retention, same as Cruwear, whereas he has M4 at 6. Why are your tests showing Magnacut at 1000 slices and M4 if I recall a year ago at about 600? I would have predicted Magnacut at 500 slices per what I thought I read.
If Magnacut is really that much more edge retentive than M4 (almost double), and Cruwear (more than double), it really is a miracle steel, given its corrosion resistance and toughness, plus not hard to sharpen.
I wonder if the Magnacut Mule was at 63, and the Spyderco production knifes in the Salt Series, the first of which is the Native 5 Salt, at 60 or 61, and how that affects edge retention.
I totally agree, i've never tried the maxamet but i wanna try one. Any recommended tipe of blade on maxamet steel? Maybe something short with only cutting tasks?
Hi from Sydney.
What works best to sharpen 420hc specifically buck knives ?
The 420HC on my 1995 Leatherman Tool is insane level sharp. So I bought a car from a dealership used. Had it four years.. lost job, sold it back to same dealership. Guy was like “wanna make sure you got everything? It’s gonna be awhile” fine.. triple checked everything then was just board so was like I’m going to read that owners manual thing why not. Boom, out drops this Leatherman.
I dunno who had it before me but they made the edge mirror polished and so sharp I refuse to use it, no chance I’d ever be able to get it back to that. The one time I tested it on a piece of toilet paper it actually cut right through no pressure.
And although I don’t use the knife I use the rest of it often. It’s been in my sweaty pants pockets, rain, sun.. everything. Not one issue.
So my experience with it has been great. I see that blade as an emergency only cutter. I have ~15 other knives I can use for daily stuff or camping.
No one will care or ever read this but what a love to daily carry? A cheap ass Kizer Swuidward I managed to snap up last year in June on Amazon for like $30 shipped. The 154CM has been fantastic. I’ve only resharpened it one time and I used the little keychain Worksharp with a Diamond/Ceramic cylinder either side. I’m not very good at sharpening but it’s back to cutting paper effortlessly so whatever.. doesn’t look as nice as you guys can do it but practice makes perfect (I hope).
After watching this.. I just want a MagnaCut blade even more. My only concern is finding one that will come with a factory edge that’s done perfectly so I could in theory go years without having to buy real stones and attempting to sharpen it.
Nice story, you really should get into sharpening, the type of edge you described on your leatherman i can put on every knife, im not saying this to brag but rather as encouragement as it is a wonderful feeling that makes you love knives even more... but i have had few decades of practice now.... but if you want easy and kinda cheap way to sharpen get the Spyderco sharpmaker... most factory edges that are almost there can get razor sharp with just few passes on the sharpmaker. And sharpening serrated blades on it is even easier.
Knife collectors who are afraid of sharpening are crazy. It's like buying a car and being afraid to change the oil.
Should tape of a part of the blade to keep a certain amount of blade cutting surface, to help keep these tests consistent.
I checked other videos, here’s some results:
Maxamet 1300
Magnacut 1000
Cruware 550
would love to have magnacut utility blades
I've done a lot of different types of work with lots of different people thousands of miles apart different languages. I lived off the land. No one brought a 300 dollar knife to work and said this sure is better than your 80 dollar knife boy I'm satisfied. What they did is they brought a utility knife to work and 50 or 100 pack of razor blades to go with it. They bought the 300 dollar knife to feel safe. The only other blade I've seen used in work was a machete or sickle.. At one time or another I also saw the work tools I've mentioned used as weapons, so I don't know if the 300 dollar one ever performed unscheduled surgery. I used a Buck Advance on someone this year..40 dollars. I threw it in the bushes in another state. That's the second time in 13 years of being out of prison that I've done that, and since then bought a 200 dollar Spyderco, and that does daily cutting like a bag of cornuts; but I really have it because of the hardness of the steel and I want it to be able to go through clothing, belts, whatever.
What do we think about that cliff stamp video where he cuts dirty carpet? He finds 12c27 outperforms 10v in this circumstance.
I think to myself how often I cut soft abrasive materials, and for me it’s basically never.
I carried 52100 for a while and noticed increased edge retention against my other steels s30 and up. Most of my dulling comes from deformation.
I’ve been experimenting with high strength steels like rex 45, 76, and now t15. It seems as long as the carbide is super fine, it lasts long enough.
My two pence
Now the next question. Is it worth the extra hundreds to not have to hit the 440 on a ceramic stone a few times. I know I have no problem doing it while watching TV but that's just me. I know plenty love the extra edge retention means slot to some
To be honest I don't like these supersteels because of difficulty of sharpening in difficult conditions. Magic edge retention is great and impressive but every steel is dull someday and common but good steels you can sharp on piece of stone from river. You can't renew the edge of super hard powder steel in this way. That's why I like the most steels like D2, 14c28n, 9cr18mov, niolox, 80crv2 from good producers like ruike, real steel, steel will, CJRG, Civivi or QSP. Pretty good edge retention and you can still renew the edge on coffee mug or rock from river.
Credit where it's due the boomer knives are always good fun to get out and use my buck 112 has the aftermarket thumb stud it lives in my belt pouch for when I go camping or on a walking trail or just want to carry something oldschool
Great video as always Pete. I think an interesting fact is that meat packers and butchers that use their knives all day long still use that"old fashioned" steel to earn a living. They keep a honing rod with them and use it frequently to keep the edges keen. Time is money at work so I wonder if a few frequent quick swipes is more efficient than trying to keep an edge on a "super steel".
Not to mention that they may chip the blade on bone which would be a major headache to grind out on a steel like maxamet.
They use cheap blades that are basically disposables and they go through them in a fast pace with agressive sharpening methods
Where you can find the higher grade steels is with chefs but then not on beater knives that get in contact with frozen food or bone
@@martinerhard8447 The Butchers, Farmers and pro Fishermen, I know personally, here in New Zealand, prize their knives equipped with very thin, good quality, often German or Japanese, HC stainless steel blades, I agree theyre relatively soft, making them tough and easy to brush up on a steel or strop, sure they wear out and theyre not that expensive, but I wouldn't describe them as cheap, or disposable.
A coupe of local companies; Victory Knives NZ and Svord make some good examples
@@dougbulldog9947 Then the butchers you know dont butcher a lot.
Butchers in industry butcher so much that the wear on the knife is so high that the knives dont last very long.
They use stainless blades with grippy plastic handles that can be steam sterilized. Take a look at the giesser primeline series to know what I mean. They are intended to be cheap disposables so they can be replaced easily. Doesnt make sense to get a 50$+ knive in a field where it wont last a month
My family has a cattle farm so I know quite a lot of butchers and the uncle of my gf is a fisherman that is famous enough that he constantly appears in fishing magazines. But he isnt a lineworker at a fishfarm and only butchers a small percent of the fish that those guys butcher daily.
Another nice video. I guess from now diamond coffee mugs are a thing 😀.
Keep a ceramic around for honing 🙃
do you have a video of the swap-able handle scales you're using for your mules?
Any scale is able to be swapped out if you have another set of scales that fit onto the knife
Damn!!! I did know, but now I know! I need a diamond coffee cup in my life!!!! Thank you! :D
Any recommend sources to acquire the Spyderco knife?
Knife testing is not only about cutting ropes/edge retention.
It's also about break resistance/toughness with harder use.
Just have a look a two video's made by Joe X.
The Buck 120 general phenolic knife with the 420HC steel, and the Buck 120 pro micarta with the S35VN steel.
The steel 'snobs' would always go for the longer edge retention.
The 420HC is a much better choice for stabby tasks. The difference in toughness is huge. Many of those 'supersteels' failed miserably. Didn't live up to their super better in everything reputation. Yes cutting ropes will make them look great. But a few passes with a ceramic rod and the softer steel is good to go.
love joes testing. I cant do it all, so im glad theres others to cover other parts of knife isage
@@CedricAda
I hear you.
Maybe just remind viewers of the harder testings and other outcomes due to that regarding toughness. Edge retention is ofcourse an important part of the knife's abilities.
Fun part. The expression edge retention is used by Joe X when chopping concrete and a steel pole and then to check how the edge is holding up.
😁🤷♂🤦♂
@@CedricAda
He's entertaining for sure.
And although not a thing that says it all. It's interesting to see where the knife's limits are.
Becker's were not considered a good survival knife according to him. I strongly disagree. The BK9 held up the car chopping and stabbing fine. Really well. It was the concrete that made it break. But so was the Junglas breaking at the concrete. His conclusions are regularly so so .
If following his thoughts, we all end up with thick edges and tips and soft steel.
When in fact the men in the 1900's and before, who lived the survival life, had way less quality knives.
@@CedricAda
I do appreciate your video's.
Let that be clear.
I've seen quite a few of them .
I dig it and I get it . Im in the camp of easy resharpening . Before all the new steel was out we got by fine , we really did . Theres been plenty of tasks Ive done with , what Ill call " regular " steel , and I had to stop and resharpen .... for like 1 minute . It doesnt bother me . Retention is awesome but once its done its gonna take some real time and skill to sharpen . Do you happen to know what steel is used on swiss army knives ? I carry a recruit at work [ cabinet shop ] and I can get that thing to shave hairs in a minute . Whatever steel it is , Id like to know because Id get other pocket knives with the same steel . Thanks for the video , your time and work
1.4110. It's a little worse than 440a but they have an okay heat treat on it.
If you reslly struggle to maintain steels like s35vn, cruwear, or msgnacut in the field then it's a lack of ability, knowledge, or effort on your part. Sure, steels like zdp-189, maxamet, or rex 121 are hell to maintain, but most balamced super steels can strop back reasonably well and can sharpened reasonably quickly on a simple and widly available diamond plate. I'd personally go so far as to argue that, using diamonds, it's easier to sharpen modern steels than it is older ones. The higher hardnesses respond better to diamond and I find the burr is easier to deal with.
I’m very happy with this release schedule, love your videos keep them coming!
For a blade I need to rely on, I still prefer 420hc, 80CrV2, 14C28N. All tough, durable, easy to maintain. But that’s just me.
Nice....now where am I gonna find a diamond coffee mug?
Why are rust prone knives plated or given sacrificial anodes?
420hc and other budget steels still have practical applications, just not in edc knives. The easier a metal is to sharpen the softer it is, the softer it is the worse it will stand up to every day tasks and need sharpened.
Of course metals are a thing of balance so harder metals can chip and otherwise suffer from weak blade geometry and also tend to be more prone to corrosion. Some premium steels like s90v offer a good balance and cut through most things (not rocks) without significantly dulling or scratching the blade.
420hc has A to S tier toughness as well. When you are doing a job that exceeds the edge stability of any steel such as scraping rust off of a trailer or opening up a hole in plaster wall you will appreciate a cheap tough steel like 420hc. You might say this is knife abuse and use another tool and I would agree on a magnacut knife which looks outstanding by the way. but a 420hc knife will do this job without any risk of overall failure so why not use it as long as you do it in a way you are not going to hurt yourself. As such I think there will always be a place for 420hc class steels for jobs you would not want to do with a cutting optimised blade.
Buck 110 in magnacut. Problem solved. Best design with the best steel. Well 110 sport.
If we're talking about sharpness i dont know if anything can beat a good heat treated 52000 or K390 or even s90v.
Great video - thanks for sharing 👍
440C (like Boker still uses) gets a lot of distain, but if well done, it's still a decent everyday steel. And actually a tad better than 420HC in all regards. I have a knife still in service that was made in Japan in the early 1970's for a big box store brand. But what about the new steels? I have to admit, I love them more. Buck is producing a 110 in Magnacut...
I'll be straight though, S30V in a multitool is what a carry most, but it's not my PREFERRED steel, but it's my EDC.
That Buck 110 in magnacut was a limited production run, only 1,000 were made.
So I know you are a huge fan of spyderco so I thought I would ask your opinion since im having a hard time choosing. an Endela in cru wear or in k390?
Great review! Thank you!
Great ideea!!!👏👏👏
As for steels, i will just wait 5 years and the i will buy magnacut for 45 $ 😋
You're smashing it mate 👍
I just threw my Buck in the bin. I feel no guilt.
The Bucks place is in the drawer not the bin, unused, just as a piece of history.
Try a 400-600 grit toothy edge + 3-6 micron diamond strop on maxemet, it does a lot better with a toothy edge.
Can you get ahold of some spyderco 15v?
I'm dying to see what the retention is about with this hyped steel. Thanks bro been enjoying your videos for years