HOW UK Drone Pilots were CAUGHT and convicted!
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- Опубліковано 30 січ 2024
- Hey everyone! There have been a fair few stories in the press recently surrounding UK drone pilots being successfully prosecuted for some pretty poor flying. Join Sean as he takes a look at some of the cases and looks at what authorities seem to be focusing on with these convictions, what the drone pilot was doing to attract the attention and vitally, how they were caught! Let us know your thoughts in the comments below or join us LIVE!
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Sean Hickey, founder of Geeksvana and main channel presenter is a UK registered journalist who seeks to provide accurate information on what is an often misquoted and misrepresented industry and hobby. Sean currently holds certificates from the UK Civil Aviation Authority, including both the A2 Certificate of Competency (A2 CofC) and the General Visual Line of Sight Certificate (GVC). Flying all sizes of multirotor aircraft from the small DJI Mini 2 to larger aircraft including the DJI Inspire series for both hobby flights and commercial work.
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Operators who commit such dangerous and foolish actions do not do the rest of us any favours. When the public hear of such things they tend to tar the rest of us with the same brush.
Lets be fair the guy up at 1500ft i guarantee he knew full well he was in violation.
Its like going 130miles per hour on motorway and claiming ur dad said it was okay
@@hectichazerdus whether or not they knew they were flying illegally is irrelevant to the point they were trying to make. When people do stupid things with drones it affects every drone pilot.
An unfair experience us gun owners know all too well.
As a motorcyclist, (a sensible, law abiding, quiet motorcyclist), I can relate to the few spoiling things for the many.
Such a shame that there are so many muppetts out there😢
The video of the crash at the concert is the exact reason why I'm becoming more and more scared of flying because it's idiots like him/her that cause problems for all the genuine pilots that just want to enjoy their hobby.
All of you are making the mistake of confusing og drone hobbyists with "Average NPC DJI drone pilots". Those are 2 VERY different things... In terms of numbers, alone... There must be 20 DJI pilots plus for every old school hobbyist?
Loving the channel, i am new to drones as well as the channel, but it has already saved me from any future issues with the information i have gained, even sorted my CAA registration, which i hadn't even considered, and luckily not taken the drone out yet - Thank you.
Playing the piano in a public place and filming may be more dangerous ;-)
🤣 good one…
DONT TOUCH HER!
Thinking and sharing alternative views are already illegal, so piano and Pooh Bear related offences are probably asking for a life sentence without trial.
Oh, stop exaggerating. What are you, a ‘conspiracy theorist’?
Julian Assange joins the chat.
PS
Beware gatekeepers.
Peace
Are you really 'filming' ??
Nobody uses film anymore. They are recording. It's all digital now 👍
Are you sure it's 'filming' ??
Nobody uses film anymore. It's all digital so they are recording ✅
Can a flock of 10lb birds fly at 1500ft ? not a 250gram drone ?
How often do birds run out of battery?
I can bite you because wolf!
Got it.
Alright well of you can't tell the birds not to, then go ahead. SMH
@@jimmypop4001 How often do birds cause plane crashes? - QUITE A LOT
Near future headlines,
"UK becomes the first country to ban all hobby drone flying"
You can just see it coming, can't you.
Personally, no I don't think we even remotely heading down that road. These flyers were idiots and deserved the prosecutions they faced. 99% of drone flyers do so safely and responsibly and that will continue the hobby for many years.
@@Geeksvana It was a 'tongue in cheek' comment.
It triggered me. You got a paragraph reply 🤣
Does it help the police with guys flying over their crime scenes and recording?? The gov hate drones it gives the subjects eyes in the sky and they face more accountability
@@Geeksvana But,,, they might ban drones with cameras. The corrupt are frightened of cameras.
Very interesting to see the level of incompetence. It's astonishing that one was a former Safety Officer - that's food for thought about how human factors are at play.
Thanks for the content, Sean.
They need to distinguish fpv as a separate thing. The fcc hack is needed for fpv and it makes it safer if anything.
I was trying to make the same point without triggering too many people 😂. I don't have the technical knowledge to know if there are any safety issues etc, but I would hope a solution could be found.
The fcc hack is needed for most Dji controllers to extend the range
FCC hack is a contravention of the Wireless Telegraphy Act. These are Ofcom rules but police will throw the book at people
@@GBMark90 the problem is you need to keep it in VLOS so extending the range isn’t really a valid reason. Also the FCC transmission power is higher which is also above the legal limit in the UK.
Doesn’t the FCC hack make them illegal to use due to the higher transmission power anyway? Not that I agree with the legal limits though.
I don't think I'm alone in having seen some dazzling stupid things posted to drone groups on Facebook.
Nice video as always, just like to add that with FPV we use max power most times so for example DJI and walksnail people set them to 1.2 watts. Control link as high as 2 watts, with analog VTX I have seen them go more then 2watts, if I remember correctly the max power limit for UK differs between digital and analog, with people being allowed to use a much higher digital video signal, but no chance the levels people are using, still feel that CAA have no idea what FPV is and setting rules on reading the user manual when there is non is more of them making BS up as they go along
Thank you for your channel I passed my test easier with your advice and your informative manner certainly makes it practical to be legal 🙂🙃
Thanks for the insights
Thanks for addressing this issue. I live in Australia where so far, regulation is not so stringent. We do have restrictions on daylight flight only and not over populated areas etc, however, authorities here are usually a bit slower off the mark. I'm hoping that, with examples of complete muppetry that appears on social media down here ascwell as globally, that it won't spur our authorities to go down the path of UK, US, NZ any time soon.
In the mean time, I aim to obtain a certified RPAS licence shortly, in the hope I'll not be affected as I seek to commercialise my newfound "obsession" of 2yrs.
Enjoy your content and all you contribute to the droning community.
Cheers, Kaz
And no outdoor fpv in Aus.
OMG, it was so funny seeing the first one. At 1:17 at the top of the screen where the map clearly says "The Curry King", I literally live just round the corner from there. You mentioned that the prosecution said the drone had been up to 3 miles away at points. The odd shaped, quarter circle building (it's a secondary school) shown in a top down view at 5:14 is only 1 mile away from his address and at 5:11 that view is from above that building looking roughly north west. Unless there is more from the video that isn't being shown then he was only (only!) a mile away - not three miles. Either that or they found evidence that he had done other flights that were that distance.
Although I totally agree, the whole using binoculars etc is a real joke. And to just rely on on listening to some friends rather than checking for yourself?
But Peterborough, being the city that it is, you missed out an earlier drone conviction from October 2023. Although, that was for doing something intentionally illegal (or at least they MUST have known it was illegal?). All I'll say is that the openings on prison windows are very small indeed (max 4 inches or so) so she must have had quite some skill to fly the drone to the exact point where the contraband could be taken. Either that or perhaps the prisoner had a net or something similar to catch it.
I have trouble linking to external sites on youtube, this is from cambs dot police dot uk:-
*Woman used drone to smuggle phones and cash items into prison*
A woman who used a drone to smuggle mobile phones and cannabis into HMP Peterborough prison has been sentenced.
Nicola Rigitha, 23, of Morland Court, Peterborough, used the technology to fly a package to a prisoner on 25 June 2021.
Prison officers were alerted to the drone flying within the grounds and witnessed it approach a third-floor window where the occupant took it through a hole in his window.
Inside his cell they found a football sock containing 10 miniature mobile phones, seven packs of cigarette papers, six packs of tobacco, cannabis and a Zanco mobile phone.
They traced his phone calls from the prison and arrested Rigitha at her home. Inside they found a box for the Zanco mobile phone.
The cannabis was thought to have a prison value of £5,800 and the tobacco worth £3,000.
At Peterborough Crown Court on Friday (13 October), Rigitha, was sentenced to a year in prison, suspended for two years, after pleading guilty to conspiring to convey list A and B prohibited articles into prison. She must also carry out 150 hours unpaid work.
PC Floyd Matthews, who investigated, said: “Conveying prohibited items into a prison will not be tolerated. We work closely with colleagues at HMP Peterborough and we will continue to prevent further incidents of this nature taking place.”
Cheers for the information
When I had my DJI spark it was unflyable without the FCC hack, the signal was just abysmal. With the Mini4 Pro it is far more usable in CE mode but this regulation still seems frustrating, it is safer as you have better signal and the drone is more visible to authorities too, it seems short sighted…
As we see from MANY audit videos, the police don't know the Drone laws, the FPN system is going to hellish for us
They really don't even if you're interested in drones the law isn't always clear there's no way the average cop could possibly know all the legislation for every topic. If anything though they're less likely to take action against you if they don't know. But as a drone pilot if you're challenge have a polite conversation with them the legislation is there and you can show how your flight is compliant with the law.
@@Bran_Redmaw IF.... it's an officer who's willing to listen, sadly, not all are.
@@Bran_Redmaw there are drone cops on the force these days and i have watched them educate one of these audit morons. He actually did that in a really friendly and informative way and even showed the audit person his drone. Mine is bigger than yours style.
Those auditors are doing more harm to hobbyists than anybody. They're weaponiseing their drones to antagonising workers into arguments to use as click bait. Nobody is really interested in roofs and whether a company has solar panels or not. It's pure and simply to create arguments. There are the people for me that's need stopping
@@Bran_Redmaw you would be surprised how many with arrest you for laws they know next to nothing about.
Good to have these pilot ‘indiscretions’ aired. Mistakes can be made by all of us. But blatant disregard of the law (or pleading ignorance of it) doesn’t wash with me. Non-involved people down below are vulnerable .
Nice video bud!
I abide by all the rules and registered,
Never left my back garden or gone above 5 ft.
need a designated place to go and enjoy.
Great vid
Thanks
Just missed live, but kudos for having it. Still watching vid, hoping details in there, but.. first one? He flew between waypoints and landed in his garden? And in air that the AA could have been in, but wasn't? Isn't that basically everywhere? I've had one go over me at below 400ft when there were black clouds, and there was no warning (I wasnt flying a drone).. not to be contrary, but if they make it impossible to fly correctly.. well it seems like they want to just stamp it out. I might be missing details, but seems like less fuss when ppl break driving rules and cars are infinitely more dangerous..? Thanks for making the vid!
The issue with the first video was flying at 1500ft and over 4000ft away. That kind of flying will 100% get the attention of any authorities in the area. It was a marginal flight.
Having taken the A2 exam, you are required to listen out for other aircraft.
If the helicopter is under 120 meters it will be taking off or landing and be very noisy.
@@rogerhargreaves2272 For sure both these pilots were wrong. But for my experience, I was on a hill in the countryside and totally clear, and thinking of flying (but didnt) and Zooom this yellow AA helo went over at 200mph - I think avoiding the cloud layer - but my view is, if the rules say segregate air users, they should apply to everyone. Also wondering if courts time would be better served chasing the people racing cars near me at 2am. But yeah, best to go legit/Pro.. but again, them going after sub-250g is just spiteful, feels like they'd ban paper airplanes if they thought they could.
@@Geeksvana
@@gabedude68 Every situation is different. In flying below the cloud layer they are maintaining visual flight rules, in the cloud layer the helicopter would be reliant of instrument flight rules, which not every pilot is trained in. In your situation there was a clash in airspace you were right in not flying.
As for bad driving, well, that’s bad if not worse.
I agree with you about every one taking the A2, as it really only applies to heavier Drones in built up areas, however you do learn a lot of things that you wouldn’t think about otherwise. A flyer I.D. for sub 250g is probably a better essential.
Thanks for taking your time to reply. Happy flying 😃👍.
I was planning to get an air3 but i live in a built of area and i also have the a2cofc I have ditched the idea and keep to my mini 3 CE drone. People do use FCC to get around cell towers that can impact signals using CE. I have now bought a 3d printer much safer on my desk.
I've never had any interference from cell towers. I don't doubt it could happen but I've operated very close to some and got no issues.
@@Bran_Redmaw where i am there are 3 close together and it really impacts my signal it does not disconnect but there is quite a bit of lag, I tried taking it up higher little better but still have issues. 😄
I agree - using FCC is much safer.
How does VLOS work with waypoints usage impact the range the drone can fly.
On my mini 4 pro in Iceland the app said the limit is 120m, but in the UK it tells me the limit is 500m? I wonder why…
I remember back before Drones when RC Planes were the hobby (still is but notso public) , long distance fpv flights with planes were popular with some , really bad FPV feed or even no video only flight by coordinates only , no one seemed to bat an eyelid about it back then lol
It won't have been posted across the Internet and what people don't know doesn't hurt them. These two prosecutions have only come about due to some unbelievable stupidity. Don't crash your drone into a stage and don't fly your drone 3 miles away at 1500ft over a built up area only landing with 3% left on the battery then post your stupidity with all your contact details all over social media for the world to see narrated with subtitles. I myself don't think that flying a drone further away is necessarily a dangerous thing to do. If he'd have carried out that flight at 100ft 3 mile over open water or farmland the risks aren't the same and the airspace around the area could still be monitored. We will inevitably start seeing legislation for BVLOS in the coming years it's not innately dangerous but there does need to be risk mitigation in place.
I wouldn't be surprised if RC planes would be subject to the same regs nowadays.
I am quite sure they are , those that do keep it more undercover than drone flyers seem to do.@@fillipo1972
@@fillipo1972 They are, thanks to the irresponsible pilots/so called auditors and the stupid stunts they feel the need to post all over social media......... The thing is most of us RC pilots saw this coming when the idiotic behaviour started being put on the net, all its done is fuel the fire and will continue to do so.
I've been flying RC aircraft for almost 50 years. Until recently it was an activity that took a reasonable amount of skill and dedication and, as such, it was a fringe activity and fairly well self regulated.
With the advent of computer controlled aircraft, any idiot can successfully fly them. It appears that there are far more idiots than anyone anticipated.
I mourn the loss of a favorite activity that nobody outside of the modeling community paid any attention to. Nor did they have any need to.
While Remote ID is not required in many nations, most new big brand drones such as DJI are equipped with this feature. Therefore, any police or security organization can get apps to detect drones.
Really? Any reference to that?
What does “over” a crowd mean. I would have thought that any flying machine flying near but not over a crowd had the potential to crash into a crowd - crashes may not be vertical but along a slope.
You are specifically not allowed to fly a drone over a crowd. All in the rules
FWIW, my son is a commercial helicopter pilot, flying twin engined turbine aircraft daily. When he is flying, there is an absolute restriction on height permissible and that is no lower than 500 feet except on approaches to airports or as an emergency landing in a field. When he flew in London regularly, the flight path was never made over buildings or highly populated areas but along the pathway of the river Thames, for example.
The CAA is rightfully keen to ensure height restricted flights (maxima and minima for each class of aircraft) are strictly adhered to. Many helicopters will be found below the 1500 feet that the first drone operator was flying his aircraft at some point during their flight. The helicopters my son is flying can take anywhere from 3 to 15 passengers and to bring one down would be an absolute disaster.
While I do not want to be censorious and spoil people's recreational fun, ignoring or not knowing how to fly safely or failing to undertstand the relevant regualtions surrounding safe operation, is such a dangerous thing to do that it is probably best to ban people from drone flying for life where they have flouted the permitted flight heights and distances and are not bothered about VFR flying. Of course, it goes without saying that the more irresponsible cases that reach the courts, there will be more repressive legislation. Drones are not toys... they are aircraft with the potential to bring down other aircraft. /rant
Generally agree, but are there birds heavier than drones on this attitude?
@@Jake-Curious and how often do you hear of bird crashes, (into each other) and multiple casualty bird pile ups, you don't. Yes their are occasions that aircraft will involve bird strikes, but not because some drone pilot was flouting the law/legislation for safe flying.
Regarding altitude restrictions..locally i can take off and happily fly around a neighbourhood at 20-30 meters. If i decide to go north, even within LOS, I would find myself at way over 120 meters due to starting from a hilltop. Do the regulations refer to above ground level AGL? Or above sea level as eometimes used in the aviation world?
The 120m height, as described in the video is the closest point of the earth to the drone. So if flying down a hill, you would need to bring the drone down to match.
@@Geeksvana so im thinking the drone would show negative altitude? And if rth was used at that point im thinking the drone could well exceed the 120 before landing potentially. For example, my drone is set to 95 metres rth altitude.
Imagine flying over a cliff edge and never getting your drone back?
an SSPA in the drone rf lead will increase the range but retain the CE characteristics (hopping/channel etc) SSPA = Solid State Power amplifier someone will do this mod soon
you know what sir ,,ive just had to pay for the drone licence £10.03 but I always check where is to flight on the website .and I keep the distance from them sites
I used to fly small 2 seater microlight aircraft and I now fly a mini3 pro. As a pilot who used to fly mainly between 700 and 2000 ft I'm pretty horrified that there are people flying drones at these altitudes beyond visual range. A drone clipping a propeller can shatter the blades and leave a pilot in a potentially life threatening emergency landing situation. I think the fines should be much steeper than a few hundred pounds.
Exactly, the 400 ft limit is there for a reason, to protect other air users. I don’t agree with VLOS laws though, flying beyond your line of sight can be done safely, although a lot of people won’t do it, I would even be open to requiring you to sit a test to be allowed to fly BVLOS.
Correct! Best video shots are taken at low altitude. BUT one thing they should look its flying beyond VLOS! This is the most painfull law they came with considering modern drones are already equipped with so many safety features! It defeats the purpose of having any kind of telemetry! Stupid EU rules!
The first guy was a knob. Penalties for flying in airspace should include prison sentences. I fly a paramotor, a drone could easily bring me down. Worse still would be bringing down an air ambulance, or police helicopter. The second guy was a total idiot. Flying close over that many people.
We have a lot of freedom in the sub 250g drones in the UK, this won't last long with idiots like that about.
I haven't heard the K insult for a good while. Underused! Agree on the freedom we have although I think with effective enforcement they could push the idiots away.
A drone “could” take you down, but that doesn’t make it likely. The chance of a collision between a drone and another aviator is tiny, assuming random trajectories over a town like in the first example. That doesn’t even factor in avoidance action that a drone pilot would likely take if another aircraft was observed.
Moreover aviators like yourself no doubt accept the risk of collision poised by birds, many of which are far heavier than a Mini 3, vastly more numerous in the sky and would no doubt cause more damage upon collision.
So then back to the subject matter of “likely to cause endangerment”. What is “likely”? It’s an absolute, rather than relative term. We assume that breaking the law results in likelihood of harmful collision being “more likely”. But “more likely” is not the same as “likely”. 1 in a million is more likely than 1 in a billion. But that doesn’t make a 1 in a million chance likely.
To my mind, “likely” can be proven in a court of law if there are actual and plentiful examples of harmful collisions that have resulted from similar courses of action in the past. So far I don’t think there are too many examples of drone collisions that have caused fatality or injury.
However we never see the question of “likely” being tested in court. It’s far more “likely” the accused pleads guilty to avoid the likelihood of a vastly harsher sentence in court were a full trial to commence.
Great video. I am in Grance and new to drones, i just keep it simple, fly very low and beey close to me to practice amd get really comfortable before i start taking pictures later on my deone journey. It is a litrle sad though that some act so irresponsibly and will ruin the fun for everyone. I say lets be adults so we don't have to have governments act like authoritarian parents because the kids can't behave themselves.
If I had a pound for every time Sean said "IN TERMS OF" I'd have my own drone fleet 😂
😂 I think I could date any live stream of mine by the 'filler' words. It used to 'frankly' and the more annoying 'ummmm'. I wonder what will be next...
@@Geeksvana 😂 It's not easy doing what you do with such a big audience and you do it confidently and professionally. I hope you didn't take offence. I'm a big fan really! 👍🏼
Thanks Sean. Well ignorance of the law is no defence in both of these cases.
It might sound Draconian, but if every U.A.V. Operator had to qualify for the A2 c of c, where the law is drummed into you, then instances like this would be less likely to happen.
The law gives succour to those who alter distance settings. 'THAT WHICH IS NECESSARY IS LAWFUL'.
If it were necessary to load FCC settings, say due to interference, then due to that interference causing safety issues, it could be argued as necessary to use higher power settings and not be prosecuted.
I was looking for a hobby, having recently lost my partner, so thought I would take up drone flying. My in-laws kindly gave me one for Christmas. Then I started some 'proper' research about the rules and regulations (when 'drone flying' as a new hobby entered my head, I thought you could fly almost anywhere, apart from near airports and prisons). Thanks to Sean (and I really do mean 'thanks' in a helpful, rather than a sarcastic way), I have already given up on drone flying as a hobby, before the drone has even been outside. I packed it back in its box and arranged for its return back to our favourite online retailer. The information I have learned from this channel has been eye-opening and I can only see rules becoming more stringent and the number of drone related prosecutions increasing.
You gave up waaaay to easily. The hobby can be enjoyed by sticking to the regulations and flying a sub 250g drone... You never even tried, what a shame.
I can understand why OP decided not to fly though and sadly this is why the hobby will not only not grow but will diminish over the next few years which is what the DfT want to achieve IMO.
Thank you for the kind feedback. I am equal parts happy the information helped but also distressed it put you off completely. We actually have more freedom as hobbyists in the UK than recent years and I feel strongly that a decent understanding of the rules is all you need. If you look at many of the people who are prosecuted at the moment, it is for blatant rule breaking.
The sub 250g area is particularly open at the moment and with only a couple of steps you can get flying. Hope you decide to open the box again and fly.
Rc cars are far less hassle and lots of fun too
Where I live I only fly my drone in areas that are not classed as illegal or areas that you can’t fly them legally
One guy, in Sweden, missed short time restrictions and was flying too close to a Brittish navy ship, and his, hers, drone was shot down! By the ship crew, or Swedish outhoroties, I don't know.
Another guy set the max altitude to 1000 meters, did the flying and published a video telling "... from 1000 meters". This was close to 2 airports and 2 helicopter pads, outside their controlled area, but way above resque, or police helicopter altitude.
We all bend, or exceed, some rules now and then, but somewhere there must be a stop, a limit.
One YT video showed the damage of a helicopter rotor after hitting, and demolishing, a drone. The helicopter landed safely but the repairs was like 50 000 USD..... That's serious money to pay for a mistake.
Now watching more of Your video...
Most forums I am on.. if you mention rules, you are shouted down as DRONE POLICE 🤷♂️
That's it they should be respected and flown responsibility the idiots who shouldn't be allowed to fly are the ones who are shouting you down.
Sorry this may sound stupid, but i always wondered in regards to the fcc rules.
What happens if you moved from an fcc country to the uk , how do you go about changing your drone from fcc to eu ?
Is that possible
Thank you.
Hey! Years ago, DJI would sell different drones to the different regions. That was more of an issue. These days, the drone detects where it is and performs an update to change to the correct firmware version.
@@Geeksvana oh thanks yeah always wondered about that.
It is
When I purchased my Mavic Pro in 2017 i said then once the authorities get their foot in the door it would be the end of the hobby, I still stand by this regardless of idiots like the ones in this video. They don’t want anyone flying these as a hobby, once we are gone that airspace will be up for sale to the highest bidder. I hope I’m wrong..
Another interesting and useful video thanks. Its a pity they cant apply this technology to electric bikes that are recklessly and illegally used.
It’s electric scooters here and little asshats dressed in dark clothing usually a hoodie with drawstrings pulled up so you can just see the eyes.
Especially when use of such e-bikes has resulted in deaths.
No matter what rules and prosecutions occur some people will always break the rules. And those people banging on about the police not knowing the rules, pipe down, think they have their hands full trying to know all the law.
It beggars belief that not only are these idiots showing absolutely no regard for people's safty and the rules to keep people safe but they are so ignorant as to post the offences online. I think it's time we have more compulsory education to obtain flyer ids even for sub 250
DJI Aeroscope is the drone tracking system from DJI.
Airports and authorities use it to track down DJI drones.
They can see all the data.
Basically any DJI drone and pilot are trackable any time anywere, if aeroscope is used for it.
So waring to all DJI pilots: you can be watched anytime anywere.
In addition your flights are logged as well. You wont win a case by argueing there is insufficient proof in court.
Just obay the laws and you're good.
I know it is irrelevant, but just out of interest, do we have on record the make and model of the offenders drones?
Can you be prosecuted for VLOS non compliance etc. if you have a fly away?
No. As long as it is proven to be a flyaway.
So i guessing , build long range Drone/RC Plane is not really a good idea , because i cannot use it :) All this example was a silly things to do but what if i wanna fly on the open field ? This is illigal too ? If obviesly there is no area restriction like airports etc.
It was a stupid thing to do, flying over that crowd! I have a mini 2 , wouldn't fancy a 250 grm anything hitting me at 30 plus mph!
You say go after drone pilots even if nothing went wrong, although I hate to use a simile to road traffic regs or Health and Safety but it is like saying stopping a driver for being drunk behind the wheel even if nothing went wrong.
Yes, although I think enforcement and discretion should mirror the risk. A small drone being flown slightly out of the legals limits is much lower risk to a drunk driver. We haven't found the line in terms of drone enforcement yet. I think the coming fixed penalty system will change that though.
FPV - flying without a spotter is no different to flying beyond VLOS... the risk is no different. Also FPV need to think more about batteries and band use in their risk assessments.
The real issue here are the risk assessments, and the knowledge and interpretation of the rules.
Who did the initial ‘catch’ was it the police? Or did another report it to the police? OR was it an listed video that was seen by the ‘authorities’ on YT, who followed it up?
I just got a DJI mini 4 pro and got my flyer ID. And operators ID before I got it. For what it cost for the operators ID £11.13 and the flyer ID is as long as you pass the theory test which is just common sense when you read the questions. So it’s not hard to get the things you need to fly a drone and you learn about the hobby at the same.
Hi Sean
Really lost control……How did he manage that ?
I would imagine electrical interference from the stage equipment was a major contributor to the crash.
With the precision dive he took at that speaker I’d hazard a guess that there is a job waiting for him On the Ukrainian front line taking our Russian tanks.
Does article 9 fly still allow "Pilot" without line of sight, as long as there is an observer with line of sight to maintain safe awareness and avoidance and separation Pretty sure my FPV-UK memberships/insurance permits it. Although I am not "current".
Sitting in my garage I have a Skywalker FPV setup. It predates DJI by a long way. Uses a CCTV 2.4Ghz video transmittor and a "grey area" 435Mhz control radio. Theoretically (and demonstrated by the likes of BlackSheep at the time) range was out to and beyond 5km.
Flight weight: 1Kg, power output 350W, Thrust 1.6Kg. Wing span 2 meters.
I don't even call it a drone. It never got it's autopilot fitted (which were about £400 back then and required soldering). It's an FPV RC Plane.
The trouble is, given the new lays not only applying to "drones" but any unmanned aerial vehicle... the only place I can possibly fly that plane is in the absolute middle of nowhere ... and within 400ft of the terrain... with no altimeter or GPS ... or instrumentation at all. How do you know if you are going to stall on landing or not? Pilotage.
Back then, it was up to you to go and find out where the airspace was, where it would be safe to fly and where it would not. Where you could stretch the motor and climb unrestricted and where you couldn't dare.... mostly the later, but the 400ft rule didn't exist, so while I remained under that, by default anyway, in class D airspace, but never withing 5nm of a runway in any direction... In uncontrolled airspace, such as over the local mountains I did push to cloud base at 1500ft. However, I had a spotter sky scanning and it was in the middle of the mountains, middle of nowwhere. To come down from there in an emergency a spin would do it in seconds.
The worst and most sad part however, these new rules have (near) completely killed all forms of flat field RC gliding. 400ft is not enough. Sure if you launch to 400ft that's a start. But you would be expecting to climb until the glider is a dot. Not anymore. So the hobby is basically dead. Clubs that do exist need specific paperwork and sites.
All because "little glue sniffing jonnie" wants to show off to his mates on TikTok.
BIG POINT! fpv pilots are not the same as these folk who fly ready bulit camera drones on a screen. Fpv is a skilled discipline that is taken very seriously and do not wish to be enclosed with these other folk.
Neither of these help any of us who want to fly and want to fly within the rules ,
This just brings more negative attention on a passtime that already has too much of a negative vibe
How to avoid:
1) Don’t post to social media using your real name or say you’ve filmed it.
2) Don’t crash !
3) Don’t take off your drone from your house 🏡
If the 1500ft video was kept for a private collection he would have remained undiscovered
Really interesting Sean. The 1,500 ft high guy; really, what a donkey. It's not like the footage was any good and for what point? It's up there with posting a motoribike ride at 150 mph showing the speedo. But in truth, I think more could be done on prosecuting auditiors; not via CAA rules, as it's clear the CAA rules aren't sufficient to stop them, but as I have said before, there is no road rule stopping you from parking your car outside someone's house and pointing a camera into their living room and filming the resulting altercation that would follow. And yet, if someone did this, they could be prosecuted under non-road rules like public nuisance or privacy rules. So why not clamp down on the auditors that way? They're nothing more than idiots provoking confrontation for clicks and giggles. Anyone thinking they're actually doing a public service is deluded.... As you say, enforcement via fixed penalties may see a different approach to everyday drone flyers.... Cheers and speak soon. Ian
Ian, I have often benefited from your videos, and you have influence in the drone community. So on the subject of auditors, so called, perhaps you would find an opportunity of making the point that what gets them the clicks is not the video recorded by their drones but what is captured by ordinary cameras at ground level. Yet no-one would say that video cameras, and phones capable of video recording, should be banned. The drone footage, on the other hand, is always unremarkable; by itself it would attract little interest, and no-one would fret over it.
And there is one benefit that auditors have brought us: they have made many aware that people have no right to declare "I do not want your aircraft over my property", and that self important security staff have no authority to demand that "you shall not fly your aircraft over my factory".
By the way, I am not an auditor.
@@uranoscopist6090 oh, I agree, the footage is always practically pointless, but the fact remains they are provoking a reaction and filming the reaction. Nothing more. It's never about trying to educate the public on where drones can be flown. It's always about pissing people off and filming what happens. And the end result is that the wider public hates drones even more. Just because the rules say you can, doesn't mean you should.
£800ish for flying over a packed concert and crashing on stage. Sounds very lenient.
Hey Paul! I thought the same. Although I think it has more to do with the level of court and the way they fix the fines these days?
Yup, ridiculous.
Simples if you wanna take risks don't be getting upset when things take a bad turn!! And also if damage or worse is caused you need to stand up and take your licks!!!
Both of those flights I would argue were ripe for prosecution because they placed the safety of the public at risk. In both cases a failure of the aircraft was likely to cause damage to property (flying over a populated area) or physical injury (flying over a dense crowd). I have no problem with either of those pilots being taken to court.
If the guy who'd flown the first flight would have just done it over some open fields and at sub-400ft I wouldn't have thought a prosecution was appropriate. Perhaps a talking to due to the distance ... but he'd have mitigated the risk down to only his drone being subject to risk - no person or property. Huge difference IMO.
There was a outdoor concert in Sheffield called Tramlines in a park adjacent to Sheffield Wednesday Football Club and there was a dickhead who was flying his drone over the crowds in a no fly zone and bragging on facebook "who was going to catch him" and that he'd made his drone and didnt care anyway. I'm guessing it was heavier than 250g if home made. i just hope he was reported to the Police and the CAA afterwards
Good evening captain
Good evening!
Is the Pfco licence still current
No. Specific category flights are now under GVC. If you have a current PfCO then there is a conversion course.
However, in the open category there is no longer a differential between recreational and commercial flights. Only 'need' insurance, regs wise.
With the ban of airguns in Scotland some people i know had kit costing well over £1500 and the need for a ticket for the use of now a legal route,when cheap airguns were available in toy shops,when they should have always been only from gun shops and a need for ID to buy.for drones of certain capabilities maybe a ping with ID should be needed,i live next to a farm and can see the need for a farmer to have a long range drone,flying over areas of flight paths is stupid and with the cost of the drone most likely being around £1000 maybe the fine should be quite high.
I do think some authorities go a bit OTT like no flying over the lochs or huge public areas fens or marshes ,beaches ,coastline etc the video evidence is there to see,much like those who were prosecuted for going out walking on moorland during covid or the lady who was harassed for having a packet of chocolate biscuits in her shopping bag after shopping and the cops saying it was not a necessity for such items after searching her shopping bags way beyond the mark on that one,while mobs were hanging around parks,pubs (when they opened) ,blm marches without any penalty.
The law is not and has never been either clear enough or properly issued,in the UK for sure.
how was the guy caught? you said you were going to tell that?
We did explain on both. First chap posted on social media and police seized his drones for analysis. Second guy was counter drone technology.
For these type of offences it is usually either a crash causing the drone to be recovered by authorities, posting on social media or counter drone technology surveillance of an event or area.
MOD Land is prohibited from flying over, where private land cones under a different law I believe has just been brought in this year.
Watched my friend explain it on UA-cam yesterday, a well known Legal Drone Flyer & Auditor
Yes we have a few videos on the topic. It isn't 'MOD land' though. The sites need to be registered as prohibited places and could include TA centres and even private businesses. The system of public notification is not active yet, so enforcement is limited.
Was the person in the first video caught because he uploaded his video online or can the CAA see when and where you fly?
Only last night i ordered a drone from Ali Express this was after seeing my nephew's drone and being totally blown away by it,
But since watching a few of these vids I've checked what ive actually brought and discovered it weighs 450g and im wondering now if it'll make it past border force without being confiscated 🤔
The first one wasn't really breaking the rules, he was rewriting them. That's just utter stupidity. And I do read many things where you can mess with your drone firmware. What's the point of what he did? Maybe to show that it could be done.
Those reckless pilots are the type to smuggle drugs into prisons by drone.
There is currently no way for the police to track drones remotely, and in real time. The system you refer to is known as Remote I.D. and is active in the States, but has yet to be implemented in the UK.
You are very wrong. Remote ID has nothing to do with tracking the drone. Remote ID is merely a signal giving a unique reference number pointing authorities to the registered owner.
Police and, in fact, even private security companies can and do track drones in real time. The signal created by your drone between controller and the aircraft can be tracked several miles away. Depending on the manufacturer, such as DJI for instance, they can even tell the serial number of your drone.
Do a little more research. Find out some facts on it.
@@Geeksvana Ah, you're talking about transmission interception. It was your reference to a system of 'nodes' that triggered my comment, because the method you're talking about is performed locally and is based off prior intelligence. The way you worded it insinuated an infrastructure that could handle this remotely and automatically. Such a system is possible, but it would be overwhelmingly expensive and probably justifiable only when commercial drone operations explode en masse. As it stands, it would be cheaper to equip drones with transponders until it becomes feasible to introduce a dedicated system.
@JulianShagworthy check gov.uk, the government has been funding a national network of nodes for several years now. The system is at an advanced stage. This is confirmed by the national police on this channel.
Where active, they are able to not only check live data from any network point, but those flights are assigned a 'user', and a history is built.
Funding was first announced on gov.uk a few years ago, and they have been adding tens of millions to the pot. The system is here and deployed in large parts of UK.
@@Geeksvana C-UAS? This is aimed at security threats, and doesn't come close to the type of network you alude to - again, it requires prior knowledge of the threat and unless the transmission power is > circa 2 W (most drones are around or less than this), it will be lost in the noise, especially in WiFi populated areas. Yes, it COULD be used to prosecute somebody for flying at 500'. Is it easy to do so? Not unless you know where the individual is going to be flying, when they're going to be flying, and that they intend to break the law.
The system I am explaining is one of a national network of nodes live tracking drone flight. This is used in the successful prosecution of drone offences. It is a fact and is on public record both on the gov.uk site and via FOI requests.
What you are describing in your last comment is the investigation and required points of evidence.
You do not need to have prior knowledge when officers are deployed to the location at the time of the flight. Which us commonplace in permanent FRZs.
We have videos on the channel explaining this, interviews with officers and I have seen the system in action. (This is not special access as I work in collaboration with NPCC on the channel and I am a member of their independent advisory group on counter drones).
Im a new drone user, buying my first drone a month ago, and i am still learning to fly it proficiently by practising every day for an hour,
I bought mine with an aim to be a film maker and bought a DJI mini 4 pro as a starting point to progress up the qualification tree, and I can see why these idiots (the convicted) do these things.
Without any clear purpose for a drone, people buy them because they are there to buy, they have lived a life with no such product and then boom these things are affordable and available with zero prior qualification. We all know the human brain adapts slowly to changes, and anything new means we need to acclimatise to these changes in society.
When we have no logical or genuine purpose to buy a drone coupled with a lack of good and inspiring ideas to attempt and pursue like filming and photography and improving that art of your photography or filming using a drone as a transportation not as the purpose of flying "something" anywhere.
Without good objectives and reasons, then the drone is without purpose and becomes a "lets see" project, be that distance, height, speed, software changes, dropping objects etc etc.
The "devil makes work for idle hands" philosophy works well for drones more than any other application.
Since, and let's us be honest here, a drone is a tool without a task / job if you dont have that objective purpose to buy it.
So those individuals of whom I include these "social media auditors" that turn up at police stations and businesses etc, to fly a drone over their business (even though it is not criminal) it is irresponsible and disrespectful. Add to the numbers of people with drones that will cause the freedoms of drone users to be restricted further.
I feel that to buy a drone you should have had to physically attend a training course, prove your identity, get a qualification, and only then be allowed to buy a drone of any size or use.
This would stop unlawful use since your identity has been proved and recorded. Your ID is registered with the sale of the drone, and that includes a CAA register of secondhand drones' new owners.
This will end the idiots and impulse buyers and how it should have been from day 1.
I did everything to register, learn, and train before buying a drone. Now i have it, I train with it daily and do not use the camera at all at this point until I can fly it blindfolded (that is a euphonism, not actually doing that, lol).
I feel the access to drones should be constrained vigorously.
Who would go to buy a motorcycle without a licence to ride it, having bought it?
Or goes to mothercare and buys a pram and cot and has no baby?
Would you buy a garage door and not have a garage or hole to put it in?
Yet people buy drones with no licence, reason, or use to buy one only that they can, and its a fad thing to show off to everyone. I've seen it, so it is happening.
Making a qualification a requirement to purchase reduces the impuslive idiots with no clear need or desire to fly drones properly. It makes sure that everyone buying a drone has invested money in positioning themselves in line with the law and have a clear intended purpose to fly a drone, and not for kicks, quick cash made online ie auditors, or mischievous use like the idiot at 1,500ft and 4 miles away.
Also the UK needs to start banning US youtube content that involves legal aspects such as flying drones where their laws are way different than UK but to these asshats with the "lets see" drone use purpose, will try to emulate or better.
The CAA also needs to clarify what is and is not commercial use. Because too many people think they are or are outside commercial use when they clearly are in it for cash.
Don't kill me but I always fly out of visual site . It's usually over the ocean or Beach. I don't fly over people or fly over 400 ft.
Many people do it, whether they want to admit it or not. I would say there is a healthy debate about VLOS in more remote locations with small drones.
Just had a thought while watching this.
The laws states you cant fly under 50m to any building, doesnt that mean that all bando flying is techincally illegal?
Thats gona piss a lot of ppl off lol but then again they wouldnt have permission to be on the property in the first place.
Got some idiot neighbour or stalker who keeps flying one over my yard at night.
what is the difference between my quadcopter and a drone, bearing in mind my quadcopter does not have weapons.
These fines are literally NOTHING. A few hundred pounds is not a punishment, it’s practically a “fly higher fee”.
There needs to be sufficient punishment, fines that actually mean something, to actually deter people. Plus i think retailers selling the drones in the UK should be legally required to include a leaflet explaining current uk drone laws.
i love drones ,however would never buy a dji again with how over regulated the uk is and people think we have freedom here
With regards to the videos that get posted on social media. Let's say that the drone in the video is found to be in an "orange area" where people can still fly their drones as long as they apply for a special permit to fly their drone. If no dangerous offence was committed, such as flying over a large crowd or over 400 feet, is the police still likely to run an investigation to find out if the drone that appears in the video had obtained a permit at the time of the flight? I hope the question makes sense.
Hi Natasha! Yes. If the flight is within a flight restriction zone, without written authorisation, the drone pilot is commiting an offence. Hope this helps.
@Geeksvana thank you for your quick response. This part was clear to me, but I guess my question comes after hearing you saying that there are certain offences that the police will prioritize or be more likely to focus their attention on. So using my example, unless they have solid grounds to suspect that the drone did not have the necessary requirements, in your experience how often do you think that these offenders are likely to get caught and prosecuted? Thanks again. Natasha (ps: I am happy I have found your channel)
@natashac.8583 Flight restriction zones are top of the priority list, as it is deemed dangerous to manned aviation or a security issue, depending on where it is. As it is an automatic criminal offence, you will find police follow up where they can.
It will be down to whether or not the location had active counter drone tech operating and if they felt the flight was worth following up on.
Sorry I can't be a little softer in response. I would hate to tell you all is well when it is not. I would look at it like speeding to an extent. Lots of people speeding in cars every single day do not get caught etc. So, keep that in mind. Unless a serious safety issue, I doubt anyone is hunting anyone down.
I limit mine to 100M and i still dont like going that high :)
They’d have a fit if they knew the capabilities of the DJI drones that have a range of 12 miles 😂
I am a professional drone operator and I think that the penalties imposed were actually very lenient.
The requirements for licences should definitely be tightened.
These click-clicky A1/A3 licences do not correspond to the potential danger that can emanate from the devices if they are operated by the wrong people.
Committed pilots should have no objection to this, as licences are also required for other hobbies. See sailing, paragliding, motorbike riding, etc.
I understand the fun that this hobby can provide. What I don't understand is what the fun of flying at 1500ft and BVLOS is supposed to be. The same goes for flying over crowds of people of course.
The next epidemic is FPV flights 10km away or in city centres. UA-cam and similar platforms are full of these videos. The community of amateur pilots is destroying its own beloved hobby by rewarding people like those in the video with lots of clicks.
It won’t be long. Children will be criminalised for throwing a paper aeroplane. Just like asbo’s dished out to kids playing hopscotch.
Fancy filming it landing in your own garden! D'Oh!
Interesting but I would like to know WHY these people acted the way they did as if we can remove their failings we might be able to reduce the risk of it happening again. For the person that flew into the stage obviously shown a total lack of understanding of the guidance about flying over people and additional their excuse of they lost control is not correct as why would you take a drone to such a crowded area and fly it in the first place. Therefore maybe the operator ID might reduce silly things like that.
That would be great! Sadly, as all of these cases were dealt with by guilty pleas and a deal, we don't get any of the details. Only a sanitised statement prepared by the solicitor and prosecution. More details would be very interesting and valuable.
I am also pleased to see that the courts allowed plea deals recognising these were serious acts, but that they are not the worst crimes etc.
And I thought stage diving was supposed to be OFF the stage.....?
😂🤣
They can track a 250g toy that wouldn't knock your cap off but do not know where tens of thousands of illegal's are on this tiny island, sounds like money well spent NOT.
Both flights were clearly unlawful, the second is most shocking to me. While flying BVLOS at 1500ft could put the drone in the path of an aircraft, the chances of an incident are still relatively remote though of course the consequences potentially catastrophic. But flying so low over a crowd is absolutely putting them in immediate danger of injury especially as the pilot clearly wasn't in control, he's lucky he only crashed into the stage and didn't colide with a soft squishy person!
Those prosecuted deserve everything they got, i think onenof those convicted summed up the position correctly when he said he was an idiot.
The problem for us with FPN's though is that the Police is made up of the general public, the majority of which dont understand drones and many absolutely hate them. Combine that with officers that dont understand the law themselves and magistrate's who will take the Officers cersion over the accused regardless and those decent, law abiding drone operators are at the mercy of the system.
FPNs are one of my greatest concerns for 2024. I have to agree with your formula and fear it adds up to a messy situation. Hope to be wrong though.
Ken Heron is under fire for his recent video...
Some persons just don't like Drones. I have seen a Police interaction a person flying his Drone over trees they said that this gave them the power to seize it under the line of sight 🤔🤔🤔he had been asked before not to fly his Drone. It's my right go away. ?
You kept mentioning FCC. Were you intending FAA?
Hi! No, I meant FCC. This is the transmission mode DJI drones can be set to for longer range. Here in the UK and EU, you are supposed to use CE mode. 'Hacking' it across to FCC mode is illegal. One of the charges discussed tonight was for that action.
The FCC bit comes from the Federal Communications Commission who provide the licenses for WiFi enabled devices in the USA. It is easy to mix them up though as the FAA and FCC are similar.
@Geeksvana Oh, ok. I'm in the US, and I've heard of the DJI drones defaulting to the CE mode and limiting their distance. I was thinking FAA because our limit is 400' AGL and LOS. There's so much to learn. I've had my mini 3 for a few weeks and still haven't taken it out. Mostly because of rain but partially because of the learning curve.
Thanks for the video!
Anyone ever hear of big sky theory?
Look it up.
It is, statistically, unlikely they there will be any kind of collision.
How about large birds flying above 400 feet? Why don't they try to regulate that?
Consider how much damage a mini drone can cause, too, or how reckless pilots of other aircraft are when they randomly cross over populated areas at altitudes of 800 feet, or even as low as 300.
It's not always the drone pilots doing things that they should not be doing.
Oh, and a mini drone can't do much damage.
It's about situational awareness. You can use your phone as a Wi Fi hotspot for the phone which you are using on the controller, and run a flight tracking app on your phone to track other aircraft. That's flying responsibly.
The 400 foot altitude restriction doesn't keep other aircraft from flying into your area of responsibility. Although I agree that, due to the wide angle lenses that drones use, it's better to fly below 200 feet to get the best detail in video and in photographs, the 400 foot rule is ridiculous because there are some shots and compositions that are impossible to get unless you fly above that altitude, such as aerial surveys.
Here in the States, you are required to get a Part 107 certificate to use any kind of video or photography from a drone commercially, even for something as ridiculous as using a drone below 50 feet as a crane to capture footage for videos or independent films. This includes using a drone as an altitude of five to ten feet as a camera to get smooth footage down a path. What's to stop the drone pilot from simply claiming that they used a gimbal, dolly, or a pole?
Then there are the FPV pilots whom are doing nothing wrong, and are caught up in this B.S..
All of this regulation is ridiculous. Every person not following the rules is not necessarily being reckless or being irresponsible; you can't say that they are all idiots.
What are you guys going to do when you aren't able to fly at all anymore due to overreaching, ridiculous regulation? Are you going to say that someone flying a done at fifty feet is irresponsible or an idiot just because regulations say that you can't?
What is going to happen is that all of this is going to go underground, and people will get around all of this. Unfortunate, it will also get more risky.
We are going to have to learn how to build our own drones using off of the shelf parts.
The concert one was just sooooo obvious that he’s not a licensed pilot. I think in order to save the hobby, it is my suggestion to mandate everyone who wants to fly a drone be licensed which will guarantee education amongst the pilots. I dont like saying this but it’s getting out of hand the amount of people who not only cant fly but also don’t understand airspace.