Fixed Penalties COMING for UK DRONES!
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Hey Everyone! As part of the Air Traffic Management and Unmanned Aircraft Act 2021, the creation of a fixed penalty system for drones was outlined. We are now growing closer to a point where these will be coming into place. This means police will be able to issue on the spot fines for set types of offence. In this live show, we will show a short interview with NPCC Counter Drones with an update on fixed penalties as well as discussing how they will work. Join us in the LIVE chat or enjoy the replay!
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Sean Hickey, founder of Geeksvana and main channel presenter is a UK registered journalist who seeks to provide accurate information on what is an often misquoted and misrepresented industry and hobby. Sean currently holds certificates from the UK Civil Aviation Authority, including both the A2 Certificate of Competency (A2 CofC) and the General Visual Line of Sight Certificate (GVC). Flying all sizes of multirotor aircraft from the small DJI Mini 2 to larger aircraft including the DJI Inspire series for both hobby flights and commercial work.
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Thank you EVERYONE for the interest and engagement on this topic. I also personally appreciate the messenger not being shot on this and other controversial topics we bring you on Geeksvana. Our goal is to provide key information across the drone world. Apologies if I do not get to answer every comment, but please be assured we read them all and appreciate hearing your view! (Of which all are welcome).
Just goes to show how mature and decent, respectful, caring, community spirited and just downright amazing we drone types are 😉
Hope ur right Sean and not the way I am thinking
Outrageous!!! World has gone mad… The police need to focus on real crime.
The police are revenue collectors. Have been for years.
Thats right but all the police are now are revenue collectors
It's because the police dont have full control of drone use, they make up laws to suit their narrative.
Causing harrassment alarm or distress is usually in the mind of the officer concerned, all they want is your name and address.
Ya rainbow wearing copper couldn’t catch a f’ing cold let alone villain
They will not do that as its too dangerous!
Why aren't we being told the police are going to start issuing FPNs for illegal ebikes/scooters? I despair at the state of this country. God help us.
We actually made a video on this topic nearly two years ago. At the time escooters were looking to have the already lax regulations loosened to allow for hire companies to setup operation in large cities 🤦♂️
Quite right.
@@Geeksvana Hire companies like the one in Bristol where the people setting it up had a legal background and had recently done some legal work for the government???
Smelled fishy to me and they got comments like this removed from several places. Lets see if this holds. 100% factually true and all easily traceable.
Yes WhiteD! That is exactly the type of trial I mean! Have to say it surprised me as I didn't think there would be much money in it. But I suppose the hire bikes in London and other locations do decent turnover.
Because they only target the law-abiding citizens... we hand over all our rights when we apply for their "licenses" and that's the easier avenue to generate revenue than uninsured e bikers etc. And now they have a pool of drones users data...ohh this could make money now its a large enough idiot size to rinse more and more cash of us. If they truly cared about safety....why are cyclists not insured......
This is stupid. Until police deal with all the antisocial behaviour and youths causing hassle and thefts I have zero support for things like this,
100% agree. Sort all the crime they do not attend to unless in front of a TV camera. On TV look this guys got a small weed grinder and there a few flakes remaining arrest and fined. OFF TV... Report drug dealers, no action. Local newspaper does an article many reports and no action and no response from the police when questioned . Months later the vehicle is still there daily still no action. You cannot miss the car, you can smell it from 300feet away.
I disagree with fines in general. It means whatever you did wrong wasn't really wrong because you can do it for a price, and even then, only if you're caught. If you're poor you'll behave to avoid the fine, if you're rich you'll do what you want, pay the fine and do it again the next day.
Exactly- it’s just like parking fine bs! 🤝
Have they got the thinking: You can afford £1000+ on a drone and equipment you can afford to pay a £100 fine, because we think you may have done something wrong???
@jasondudgeon9510
I would prefer fines to the alternative which would be prison although community service could be a constructive option, but the cost of the probation officers to supervise offenders against the net gain of a fine would rule that out on most occasions. What really gets me is that you get a discount if you just pay rather than having the audacity of facing your accuser in a court and annoying the magistrates who will also impose a greater fine and a so called surcharge, especially when there is no victim.
@@wjf0ne If we have to have fines, they should be proportionate to net worth so that they affect rich and poor to the same degree. Totally agree about the "discount" for not arguing the toss, it deters people from fighting the system even though they may be in the right it can simply be the easier option in some cases.
Spot on mate. One law for us one law for the rich.
The issue I have is probably one many people have……how will the police misuse this power? Public trust in the police force is at an all time low and I feel this will just be another money maker.
The question should be how did we get here.
The answer is the misuse of these sado Auditor's who don't even understand what a professional Audit is🤦
It's not flying one of these drones over private property even when asked not too.
3months ago I had one hovering 3floors up where I live.
Should be restricted to open spaces unless licenced for surveys etc.
Slowly killing this hobby!! Typical of the UK ! Another cash cow on the horizon!
The Karen’s and busy bodies and pavement barristers will love this and weaponise it no doubt.
Hey! I don't see that as the evidence of the offence needs to be clear and deliverable. If anything this could be a way for police to explain to others why someone was not prosecuted.
How many times has a Karen dobbed you in for speeding, or for parking in the wrong rank? For me, never in over 50 years. In that time: Speeding tickets? 2. Parking fines? 3. Other PCNs? Zero. Zilch. Nada. None. Am I bothered? Do I look bothered? Nope.
Yep, my first thought, they'll be making rubbish up and over reacting saying they are in great distress etc. I've had a Kevin come up to me before, I had to hand land in a gorse bush where he wouldn't follow me. He approached me, was no where to be seen prior to taking off. Some by standers told me no to worry when he eventually left. Such a numpty. This is the kind of person who will get people charged for some bizare power trip.
@@Spencer_White Precisely that, I’ve had similar, especially when on property surveys with a drone. I do get it from the publics perspective, most are inquisitive, but too often people go straight on the offensive whilst your concentrating on your vlos flight, it’s almost as if they know you can’t respond because you busy with the controller, seems to embolden people, and it takes time and costs money all this PR and diplomacy 🤔😉. Touch wood i’ve not had an aggressive confrontation, not yet anyway, unlike some, one of which this channel highlighted not so long ago, it’s the very last thing we want. I’m constantly embarking on my own CPD, reading up, there’s always something to learn and some of it is still a bit foggy, the sector is still finding its feet I guess, as with public acceptance and understanding, including the authorities and authoritative publications. It’s why I also watch this and other reliable channels, it reinforces and helps with confidence, it fills in gaps and helps me to interpret some of the rules with the more woolly terminologies! I even refer the Karen’s and Ken’s and those whom are inquisitive, not sure if they watch though! I do have mixed feelings about these fines, i’m fearful that it will become just another cash cow for cash strapped forces and as I say, be weaponised by some, and as you say, made up offences or violations, and by people who no very little about the rules, all at a time when even the drone community can struggle to interpret the rules at times. A lot depends on how well all of this is policed, it’s implementation. Anyway, had a great day flying yesterday on my cousins 40 acre plot of land, this is such a great hobby, 5 batteries later and I was smiling ear to ear, makes it all worthwhile, happy quad-coptering! 😁
@@Geeksvana the police don't have the time to debate with Karen's they will just try to swiftly deal with the situation and if that means telling a drone pilot they need to pack up and move along that's what they will do.
No one is thinking about the "alarm and distress" effect that will be thrown around before you know it you're being told your being arrested for causing anti social behaviour just for standing up to the Karen's and police who just want an easy day.
I'm all for the police having better training, more resources etc but we all know this is just another thing that they can't easily enforce and will end up destroying the hobby.
I might have no choice but to cancel flying or put myself all in and become a commercial operator which means even more paperwork. 😂
Ive had quite a few friends have their pride and joys stolen off their driveways recently,, police don’t even turn up but they will be straight on my back to give me a fine i presume if they “think” i am doing something wrong. It always seems to be the ones that abide by the law, pay their taxes and make sure they have insurance, mot etc… are always the ones that get shafted!
Correct this is just another means to tax the middle and working class..
You work hard and saved up to pay for your license then A2Cofc then pay for insurance then pay a grand or more the gear.
I wouldn't be surprised if they don't do a Drone AirTax like road tax..
The police will always go for the low hanging fruit and this will be the next low hanging fruit.
@@davidsmith9723 indeed, helps keep up the numbers. Problem I have is you don't see drone pilots that often.
I've been flying my mavric mini with my A2Cofc for 3 years now and honestly not once have I bumped into another drone pilot. I'm going to places and no one else is flying.
It means I'm subject to public interest which 99% are always polite and show interest but you do get the odd Karen and these can quickly go from demanding you land and leave to calling police.
I don't need that anxiety or stress in my life, I just want to fly my drone safely and take some nice pics of landscapes that's all I care about.
But if I start to get police trying to fine me because they think I've done something wrong but have no evidence. I'm likely going to give up flying for good
@@srjwari exactly, not worth the hastle when all we are trying to do is relax and have a bit of fun, no fun being attacked by karens and police.
When will we start getting fixed penalties for farting in public ? You know, carbon emissions and all that
Yup and it'll be a £100 fine or reduced to £50 and having a cork fitted if settled within 14 days.
I was at Ascot yesterday - 8 pints of Guinness and a curry - today could have cost me about a grand😂
As someone else has already said, it's almost at the point of not worth having a drone as a hobbyist. You can't over fly people in an urban area, even if you have a sub 250 grm drone, because some officious type will whine and cry to the Police - bang, fined. You can't fly in open spaces, some hiker sees it and cries to the Police - bang, fined. You can't fly more than what, 75 mts to be able to see the drone and know which way it's pointed, someone sees you and - bang, fined.
I understand the need for safety, i would not want to be hauled up in front of a magistrate to answer for why i had a collision with an innocent bystander, or frightened an animal which has caused issues but this is just another nail in the coffin of hobby drone flying to make sure that the skies are cleared for big business to profit from it.
Agree about the profiteering
Shaun has a fabulous video here I watched recently. Contrary to what any ‘council official or representative’ says, policy without an evidential bye-law to back it up, is just noise - and it’s up to us to argue or advise on this point if/when confronted by Mr Yellow Jacket
This will mean that the police will have to learn Drone Law, but I won’t hold my breath.
More to the point how exactly are the underfunded law enforcement going to police it are amazon going to pay for extra officers?
The idea that you will charge a person half of the maximum penalty if they offer a guilty plea seems absurd. We tend to to do the same in the US as well. Make the price of the ticket just absurd enough that the average person won't find it financially responsible to fight against the charges. This isn't justice for anyone, it's a revenue scheme.
And we all know the police will abuse it to punish drone flyers especially if we tell them we know the regulations better than they do.This hobby is going down hill fast,just what they all wanted.
I was thinking about getting my first sub 250g drone. But this has killed the idea before I even got started 😭
I don't see why. If you buy a drone and fly it within the very simple rules for sub 250g, you will have great fun and not worry about FPNs.
I think I will get out my old Syma controller and look up in the sky. The copter flew off in 2010 and the police would need to find it, if they want to issue a fine.
"Informed police officer". God save us from one of those.
Sean I respect what you are trying to do for the community and think you do a great job. I just think the odd are stacked agianst us in the U.K., I make a point of not breaking the rules but it's so boring now, don't fly over anything or anyone, don't fly here, don't fly there, make sure you can see where it's pointed etc etc etc. Not to mention if folks see one flying a drone they get all hot and bothered, thanks to a few idiots and the media. It's much more fun flying in Germany.
I have a Mavic 2 Pro and hardly fly it now.
Interesting that they set the tone by calling it a Counter Drone Team. Just like Counter Terrorism. I don't think anyoe would argue that we are against Terrorismm but this seems to start with an agressive anti-drone title.
Their work mainly involves stopping nefarious use of drones by criminals and indeed terrorists. From full on threats to FRZs and more. In our last interview with them, we put it to them that the word counter doesn't help in this part of their work and they agree. They are actually open to changing it.
@@Geeksvana
I've had enough of this rubbish about terrorists. They managed to fire home made mortars into Newry police station by pacing and estimating the distance. Anyway, terrorists don't care if they hit the target, any explosion, whether it killed police officers, army personnel or civilians they don't care, their aim is to terrorize, and the best terrorists of the lot sit in Government.
Majority of police I have met are not fully aware of the rules so this is going to be interesting .
I see the use of the wording " causing undue stress or alarm "
I would think that police who do not know the rules would not issue one as they wouldn't be able to meet the requirements.
Also, the wording you are mentioning actually means you cannot be issued with a fixed notice.
The woke brigade are going to have a field day
But if u got wrong fix penalty given, its going to cost u a fortune and hassle to fight it. This will be 100% abused
@@Geeksvana*police who do not know the rules would not issue one", come on be real. Officers will abuse any power they can as soon as you challenge them. They shouldnt be introducing fines when most officers dont know and are unwilling to learn the legislation.
@Geeksvana police have been told time and time again they can not and must not abuse the section 43 terrorist act on photographers especially in public outside police stations but they do so all the time because they hope to use it to get the persons details which they have no right to obtain. They also use if memory serves section 50 public order.
These new drone laws WILL be abused by many police what we need is a system where a law is clearly abused the police who abuse it face criminal charges. After all, the favourite phrase if the law is not your nicked but " ignorance is no excuse "
This country is getting ridiculous to live in.
We should be addressing the overwhelming and annoying situations that need to be sorted.
I.E. parking on pavements for one
Using a mobile phone while walking should be an offence. Walk into an elderly person and they fall and they could die.
More drone pilots know more about the law of flying drones than the police.and I am sure a competent drone pilot would sooner have thier day in court.
Thank you Sean and team for keeping the UK drone users fully informed at the earliest opportunity
Guarantee this wil be abused by the Police who hate auditors.
Doesn't really affect where I fly out in the sticks, I carry the minimum of kit with me, by the time police arrive, I'm packed up and gone.
I can see this becoming a cat & mouse game between drone operators and police, the entire hobby goes "underground"
I agree, I’m also in and out… even when I launch bumbledore, I get it up in the air nice and high and then play with settings, people are non the wiser.
The average cop is going to struggle with the relatively complexity of drone rules. I was once issued with a FPN by a TRAFFIC COP, for "overtaking within the limits of a pedestrian crossing" - a made up offence which doesn't exist. Fortunately, I was savvy enough to reject the ticket and funnily enough, no further action was taken by Thames Valley Police.
Oh my hero 😂
auditors take a bow this is because of you
I 100% agree - ‘auditor’ flyers have poked the ‘Constabulary’ bear so much, this is the result. Thanks so much guys - you have ruined it for all of us!
@@decstec3555you're welcome
@@Phil.mingueand that explains their mentality.
Basically these Auditors used to wonder around villages annoying people.
If they got too annoying straight jacket and Asylum.
Unfortunately they now have cars and a drone.
Care in the community has a lot too answer 🤦
Watch out for a clause requiring Name, Address and DoB!
I got a small palm size fpv drone just before I heard about all the CAA updates and restrictions. They have officially scared me from the hobby, I never had the chance to take it out, and it now sits in the corner as an expensive paper weight. I hate this country.
Another nail in the coffin this hobby is finished.
yep.
Does anyone believe we are on the road to FPN’s issued by Local Authorities. Would open up a wasps nest.
100% will not happen.
@@Geeksvana yes it will
@@Geeksvana How can you guarantee this would not happen. Anything could happen we never thought to this day that all these laws would ever happen after registration but it did.
@@WelshLad. because of the law. Simple. Local authorities will not be able to issue these.
@@Geeksvana We shall wait and see 😉
getting to a point were you won't be able to fly your drone too many rules to understand and some of the coppers will love this, You try and fly safe but its going to get harder Ebay will soon be flooded with drones.
Could you not argue that flying legally would avoid issue? The basics this will cover should be followed by every drone flyer already.
@@Geeksvana I do fly legally but they are always changing rules its hard to keep up with all the changes, thank you for your reply.
Someone made the comment that it would be an excuse for the police to get names and addresses, I do agree, I watch auditors on youtube filming in public, as soon as police turn up they want details. The police are turning a blind eye to e-scooters, they will probably do the same for drones, especially if they are clueless as to drone rules.
That is a point. However, police are already able to gain the details of a drone flyer, especially if they suspect an offence.
According to Auditors, the officer has to have reasonable grounds to suspect an offence, auditors would use the point if they are not breaking the rules, how can the police suspect a crime. changing the subject, I have both flyer and operator ID as I bought a bigger mavic 2 drone first, I recently bought a DJI mini 2, I personally believe everyone should do the flyer ID safety course.
@Autistic Drone the police do not need suspicion with drone powers. Only that a drone has taken place.
@@Geeksvana
If they suspect an offence they can arrest if the person fails to ID for the purpose of serving a summons or further investigations.
Licenses shouldn't have names and addresses, just a card with a photo and the affidavit that the bearer of this card who likeness is affixed is licensed to operate XYZ. They look at the licence and see if the photo bears a resemblance to the operator and hey presto, they can bugger off if you are doing nothing wrong. Of course the licencing authority must be happy that the photo is actually of the operator, but that should be between them and the applicant. Police have become too friggin intrusive and their powers need wound back.
I think that having some spare stickers in your bag with you would be a good indication that you did actually have your ID on your drone and it has come off, otherwise you wouldn’t be carrying spares just in case
I use a dymo and put it on the back of my controller as well as the drone
@@vince-n yes I use a Dyno as well with clear tape, but I also have it on my controller and my ID card and carry half a dozen spares in the Drone cases. Even though I have never actually had one come off.
I've wrote mine on with a permanent black pen.
So are we now going to be the next target that they feel they have to fulfil after speeding and parking?
Yup. Easy work. Easy nicks. Easy money. It's all part of doing what's easiest and all part of policing by numbers. Example: 1 x indecent assault and 9 x speeding tickets. Indecent assault goes unresolved and undetected with 9 speeding tickets issued and completed and paid for. That's a 90% success rate. Aren't our police forces marvellous?!
These are police state fines, condition A (C) cause any person annoyance, and get a fine. Over zealous legislation.
Incorrect. That condition means you CANNOT be issued a notice. That is a list of conditions where the person cannot receive a fine and would need to be dealt with another way.
@@Geeksvana I hope I am wrong, I will read and watch again. Thanks
So police again don’t want people knowing what there up to ? My daughter uses drones to film illegal hunting ! This is bad news for people that use them to save evidence
If the drone is being flown legally, there is nothing the police can do to stop it. As evidenced by many videos out there on social media.
@@Geeksvana thanks 🙏 it just feels like there throwing everything at us. I’m taking the Hampshire police to judicial review next week. I’ve learned over the past three years how corrupt they are.
it looks like pc plod who dose not know what what they are talking about dishing out fines. the gestapo on the streets
I’m with the option to take a GVC course free instead of taking a fixed penalty notice
I've never seen any police officers where I fly, so good luck issuing FPNs! I thought the police were too busy arresting people for offensive comedy!
Thanks Auditors!
This Country is going completely bonkers with various laws, some don’t take effect for 5 years while others take a couple of weeks. I have been flying model aircraft (fixed wing, rotary wing and now drones)since 1988 when everything was simple, now it seems like we are going to need a degree in flying while being safe etc, most of which is common sense.
lol the police are clueless around drone laws, i can see many tickets being issued that are not valid.
This should be good news for auditing channels as it will increase interactions with over zealous police which will no doubt increase clicks and watch time 👍🏻👍🏻
Who would be able to judge that VLOS has been exceeded. It would be a moment in time, who will have a definite record, not just an opinion? The police could say one thing, the pilot could disagree and say they maintained VLOS. Could the police act on the word of a third party, again where would be the proof?
Hey Martin! I personally doubt any borderline VLOS issue would be progressed. However when it comes to providing evidence, this would be from things like the flight logs of the drone and/or counter drone tech being operated, usually at events or in urban areas. Then a more precise flight record is available.
@@Geeksvana Thanks for the reply and clarification. Much appreciated.
So those people who are going to give the notices to drone users I presume they will be fully aware of what all the laws are not like when they give penalty notices to people without actually giving them the right to put things right before, and this is what people do when they are trying to give it fixed penalty notice, but people for dropping litter.
😂
If they give notices without the correct evidence or not to the correct process, successful appeals will be very high. Either way, that will certainly ensure those giving the notices will be trained!
As an ex officer I'm fairly confident that that the majority of officers will only ever deal with this if there is a complaint made and they have to attend. Even then if they go to the complainant first they'll still have to find the pilot. This legislation will barely be used.
I knew things like this will be coming in
@@kernow..exp. There wil be massive erections in Truro county hall at the prospect of powers trickling down to Cornwall Council and enforcement "officers" with "powers"
As a photographer I have always been required to have PL insurance and to follow the rules of the area Im photographing, I have had many interactions with Police (usually when covering a sensitive demonstration) and in every case they have been very helpful (although 1 officer was so far up his own butt his colleague had to have words with him). Usually if you are respectful, aware of and working within the rules theyre very helpful. Im hoping that record continues with my drone flights.
It appears to me that you always seem to be in favour of the police being Judge, Jury and Executioner, making it easier for police to just pop up and impose a fine Willy nilly. Yes the police should be left free to deal with real crime but does that include stopping making tick tok videos and various other time wasting activities. The police are like water running downhill they follow the line of least resistance, meaning that they will take the easy option of dealing with such jobs instead of real police work…
Hey JK! There is a very big difference between someone delivering information on a video and their opinion. So please don't assume to know my position. Rather than rant and rave at the camera and not pass information correctly, I always deliver the information in as calm a manner possible.
I've just bought a drone been shocked how a hobby can have so many laws I fly mine in the countryside as I learn. These restrictions will take the fun out of a hobby if I choose to fly anywhere else
The hobby sharing airspace with manned aviation, mixed with the constant misuse of drones, has created something of a strange regulatory environment. Most of it doesn't impact 90% of drone users who fly responsibly. I don't think I have ever seen a UK prosectuon or even charge where the drone pilot wasn't doing something ludicrous. Hopefully it stays that way.
But enjoy the hobby, it is highly rewarding, and remember the police are not lurking in the bushes to catch us out.
Thanks for your thoughts I just love the freedom you get and rewarding the footage you film that day I fly with my son who gives me an extra pair of eyes as well as input ideas for better filming he'll be getting himself dgi mini 4 pro soon I'm really happy with my potensic atom
so alcohol is half the amount of allowed of a car yeah its all about safety sure.... I'm still waiting of the evidence of all the injuries to justify all these rules.. I'll carry on waiting i guess as per usual just been railroaded & everyone just bends over & takes it.... The police are going to have a field day with this.
Yep, Unlike junkies pilots have money to pay fines, and assets worth seizing. Why would police bother with violent criminals when they can more easily extract money from peaceful grandpa's flying drones? This has nothing to do with safety.
God help us all - the police have no idea about drone rules and them acting as judge and juror is the worst of all worlds.
This is something we should be strongly pushing back against
Wow! you conducted the whole interview without throwing him out..
Those fixed penalty laws could easily be used to shut down auditors using drones with the "nuisance, annoyance, harassment, alarm or distress" clause for flights over private business's.
Get ready I feel a new solicitor coming on line “fight the drone fine” so will there be a points on your drone licence/registration then a ban if you exceed the upper tier?
Not showing i/d is an easy one for them as unlike bvlos there is no debate over matter. Compare this with motorbike tickets for too small or incorrect number plates
This will be IMPOSSIBLE for police to police or provide sufficient evidence in order to issue fixed penalties...point A, you ask any police officer what the regs are and you'll get ...??????????erm, they dont even know public photography is legal...Point B, for an officer 100s of yards away how could they POSSIBLY judge by sight you are flying over anything, or flying beyond VLOS ETC? ...Totally unworkable...especially given that they dont/won't have the powers to access flight logs if your phone/controller is locked without a warrant/court order.
Police won’t even come out if you’re getting burgled or idiots on quads and motorbikes, e-scooters flying about on pavements but they will come out for someone flying a drone legally! Not worth the hassle of this hobby anymore!
Hey John! Not sure this has anything to do with police responses. There is no suggestion or evidence they respond to drone calls more than any other call.
This is how your individual rights get taken away, piece by piece. Zero deaths caused by hobbiest drone use. This is legislation in search of a problem.
Who could have seen that coming?
It used to be said that driving a car was the easiest way to get on the wrong side of the law, that seems to have moved on to drone flying now.
"There's always going to be discretion and common sense".
I wish.
Fix penalty motoring offence for speeding. You also get the choice of attending ace Road safety school speed awareness classes are they going to start doing drone classes
Cop "I'm issuing you a fine for flying here, can I see your ID?" Pilot I don't have an ID, I'm just playing in a park". Cop "What's your name?" Pilot "Jon Doe". Cop "OK Jon, here's your ticket".
Interesting. Thanks for the update. I think one of the issues might be similar to vehicular traffic rule violations... the lure of making money by local authorities. Motorists are soft targets, and technology is used to monitor and then issue fines without human involvement. (Yes they got me after 50 years of driving without a single violation). Often, the motorist is unaware that they violated a rule and certainly, in many cases, did not do it intentionally or with malice. There are no lane markings, traffic lights, stop signs, or speed limit signs in airspace. It's like driving your car over open fields. If you are stopped and issued with a fine, you have to weigh up the cost of going to court and proving your innocence. Dare you take the risk ? How sure are you that you didn't break the rules ? Yes, motoring offences assume guilt, not innocence. Drone rule infringements are likely to be the same. The police might be set targets to fine drone users to raise revenue... you might be flying legally, but it's simpler and cheaper just to pay the fine. Finally, why are "on the spot" fines needed ? ls there rampant misuse of drones causing injury and death ? Is it out of control ? Where is the evidence? Laws should be based on evidence, not preemptive assumptions.
FPN's issued by the Police do not go to the Local Authority, it stays with the Police. I totally disagree with this incoming system as it has been absolutely shown that Police Officers struggle with current criminal legislation let alone drone legislation.
@theoldhobbit3640 That's even worse then, the Police will have more incentive to dish out FPN, especially when there are few and expensive routes to challenge it. I can see Police just fining every drone flyer they can find and making up violations.
Nothing to do with making money then?It seems that you can no longer do anything without getting a 'fixed penalty notice'. The public should be able to issue 'fixed penalty notices' to those in public office that do not do what they are paid to do or is just obstructive. So for example, we as tax payers, should be able to go into a council offices as issue a fine if after reporting a pot hole it's not fixed within a short space of time. Also, a fixed penalty should be able to be issued to the workers if they don't do a proper job.
Paul D in the not too distant future anyone with a recording device will be able to "catch" people breaking any law and upload it, their reward will be paid into their bank and the law breaker will be debited the "fine" amount instantly from their bank. No appeal allowed. People will start filming everyone, all the time, in some cases as a way to make money.
@@Phil.mingue that’s scary
i would like to know how they can prove beyond visual line of sight as that can vary considerably between people
Hey Steve! Personally, I would expect any BVLOS notice to be for very obviously breaching legislation. As you say, otherwise it would be tough to argue, especially on appeal.
Fixed penalties are unlawful, only a court of law can issue a fine. Betty Boothroyd told the HoC this when they first introduced them, they ignored her.
When I flew aeroplanes, I never owned one or knew who owned it. I paid the organisation and flew so the aircraft markings were just an entry in my log book. I have just purchased a second hand drone from a mate and intend to test fly it with his markings still on it in case I decide not to complete the purchase.
It must be remembered that the Auditors were mostly flying legally. Their crime was that they annoyed people but now any tom dick or harry can feign annoyance to get the drone operator a fine. The laws of unintended consequence have arrived.
As Roast Chicken has said....FPN's for e-bikes and scooters....WTF's going on!!!!????
Not everyone watches this channel and it should’ve been made public on a state tv channel.
Drones are still fairly niche
Joking aside. There should be a police drone ready for take off in loads of locations controlled remotely. Press a panic button on your phone a one will come over automatically so deter crime. Would help women from sexual crime.
I wonder when they're going to criminalise Astronomy/Astrophotography...
When the aliens order them to. (Sorry not a flippant remark and I do get/take your point, just couldn’t resist)
@@Geeksvana When there's something to hide you mean...
@@Geeksvana I'll just get away with it by only doing it in the dark 🤣🤣🤣
Next thing is... police shot a drone...then public outcry for the drone... all because a karen who overreacted about the drone and was reported to the police...🤦🏻♂️ Another great topic Geeksvana...the more insights the more drone pilots becomes sensible?
Hey! I think this is a tactic to force compliance and deal with offences they might not want to spend court time on. It raises a lot of concerns on so many levels but the proof will be in the rollout. Will certainly be watching very closely!
@@Geeksvana hope we can have some sort of countermeasure when it comes to those "people" giving out penalties... or it would be better if drone police personnel can actually authorized or validate such claims for penalties... not those kind personnel/enforcers who may not know about drone laws/regulations...etc
I think it will be interesting to see how these penalties are issued when the norm in terms of knowledge of regs is very high in the hobby. We will be watching very closely!
@@Geeksvana thanks geeksvana!
What a load of bollocks.
More money for the Xmas parties.
Police unable to sort the drug dealer across the road from me (no money in it) but their happy to issue drone flyers on the spot fines🤔
Nice to be informed of this but lets make sure the police are trained and have at least a clue on what they are talking about, I have encountered one cop who knew the laws and that was because he was a drone officer.
They never pass up an opportunity to fleece the public for revenue.
I have a DJI fpv and always have a spotter. How will the police be able to tell if my spotter does not have VLOS. You know what it’s like if you take your eye of the drone for a split second it can sometimes be hard to find it again, so how can the police come along and judge on that
Hey Neil! All of the following is just my personal opinion. I do not see these notices being used for borderline issues. Mainly because there would need to be very clear evidence of an offence. So for something like BVLOS it would be either flying without a spotter or the drone being very obviously out of sight. I do not see debates with officers about more borderline issues.
@@Geeksvana thanks for this, I hope this is the case, because that would be common sense. I just worry about uninformed police not understanding the rules which I have seen a lot on videos, thanks for taking the time to reply and great job on the channel. I certainly would not known about the fines without seeing this
I am preparing to do drone work in the UK and this is extremely useful. Thank you!
Is there any discussion going on with the CAA to deal with lighter weight (i.e. can't cause much if any damage or issue) drones separately, to the heaver variety? Seems silly what are almost toys are been treated the same as a multi KG monster that would kill someone if it dropped out of the sky and fell on them or got in the way of an aircraft. The current law/legislation seem rather knee jerk and blanket...
Hey Matt! Sub 250g drones do already enjoy a lot more freedoms than heavier drones. The real difference of course is when you go down to a drone marked as a toy. I will be interesting to see if we get any more freedoms for lighter drones, although I haven't heard any particular news on this.
@@Geeksvana Obviously haven't got my point across very well: I understand sub 250g are treated slightly differently from larger drones, but the CAA seems to view sub 250g in the same light they view much larger drones. imo they need to look at them completely separately and specifically look at the risks (or NOT) they pose to other air traffic or people on the ground. There seems to be a huge lack of common sense and a blanket approach. I hate to put it this way but a sub 205g is more a high end toy than an aircraft. There is a massive potential for enthusiast drone flying that is been squished by the CAA's short-sighted and heavy handed approach to the bottom end of drone flying... Fixed Penalties sounding just like speed cameras that target a minority and completely miss the bad driving that's actually an issue.... It would be nice to see the CAA recognise sub 250g as an enthusiast category, properly risk asses and apply some common-sense, before making legislation. and then make any legislation appropriate to the category. I'm just frustrated with the heavy handed approach we have seen, probably since the Gatwick incident a few years ago and the (largly) blanket approach. m
I think the best approach for drone fliers is to not argue or discuss the rules/legislation with the officers are the scene, but to gather information about why they issued the FPN and to gather your own information at the scene and challenge the FPN afterwards. Trying to argue at the scene may cause them to try to save face, and look for more offences.
so cops are crying to parliament because of what ?
you would of needed to break a law/rule before the police get to see your operator id
Hey Greg! The specific police powers granted over drone use do allow for them to gain the information without a crime being committed. You can check the details out on our police drone powers video.
@@Geeksvana i just checked, their opening statement say they have to suspect you to be commiting an offence to be able to get id, what they are saying and what is legislation is different. they are telling you bullshit. giving id to link to an operator id is nonesense because the flyer might not be the person that registered the drone for the operator id. i would 100% challenge this and be willing to go to court to be sure police can demand id without a crime. the only time you have to give your name in england is if you get pulled over in a car or you have broken the law and been arrested. I watched DJ Audits do an interview with drone police and they clearly told him you do not have to show any id unless a suspected offence has taken place. so really without an offence as a drone pilot all you would ever have to do is show that there is an operator id on your drone.
I agree with the fines. I hope they are fines sky high so they'll get the peasants and the low-life riff-raff out of Myyyy private air space. I can just put the fines down as an expense anyway. Its waaaay more important that the courts spend more time dealing with drone issues than any other crime and I can tie up police time reporting a peasant for doing something I think is wrong or a grey area within the regulations. Pip-Pip Cheerio.
😂🤣😂 pip-pip
It's like the guys that do the cannonball in the US, one budgeted $800 for fuel and $5k for fines... The guy said its just an expense for a hobby being careful or avoiding the states that tow your car instead of just issuing a fine. But think of us poor people running old bangers and not supercars where a FPN for a drone is my life savings... :)
Please let us share your sky, I can buy an fake logo'd bag if that is compulsory. :)
@@WhiteDieselShed Ooooh! Americans Amateurs are so uncivilised, tittering on the edge of uncouth. I simply rig a money dispenser to the back of my Bentley Continental. Its set to drop "Benjamins" (as the yanks call them) every mile. Throws the po-po (as the yanks call them) off my scent. If I do get pulled over I always have a neatly folded $500 bill inside of my international driving licence. Got to dash now, hasta luego.
Plenty of ebikes in my area that are really unregistered electric motorcycles, police turn a blind eye.I would have more confidence in a fixed penalty law if I had confidence that your average police boby actually understood drones regulations properly
Fine us a punishment from a court of record, only a court can fine you on your hearing, thats punishment, not the butcher the baker candle stick maker, the magistrates. Remember we are all born equal, no one is above law rules and regulations are once you consent,
I doubt it they won’t even stop teenagers on e-bikes that do 60 mph no helmets a pinion on back no tax or insurance
End of drones for me, I am finished with this drone bs, I'm selling up, and I am finished with it. Good luck with drone manufacturing and selling now!
Is that because you want to fly in such a way that would bring fines? Or is their a specific issue such as being an FPV flyer? Interested in what the issue might be. Fine of this type are not a good thing for the hobby but a clear breach of basic rules is required.
@Geeksvana no it's not that it's the fact that either someone always comes out kicking off, or someone always comes over and wants to see what you're doing. Now this bs! Just can't be arsed with it anymore tbh.
Do this impact 249g drones that auditors use?
The first bit of law you showed said a FPN could be issued if the officer accepted that the pilot did not deliberately commit the offence and the pilot offered ID.
It didn't mention 'severity'.
Target those that they can catch easily ...those that are licensed and registered....Let's ignore the illegal law breakers on bikes, quads, scooter, ebikes, pushbikes
99% of the time FPV are braking the VLOS and spotter rules the 1% is then they are flying inside, i really do not see how it is fare when it has already been proven safe when not using them, please can you do a video showing how normal FPV people tend to fly at parks and how they are meant to some how keep in the rules, as people who fly small toothpick would fly up and down paths and around abjects, thanks you
Hey Andrew! This is a topic I am working on at the moment. It is a matter of enforcement and I don't think it is the intended aim of this. However how that works in the real world is what is important. Will have some FPV updates very soon.
@@Geeksvana i hope so, as you can keep within the rules with a hand holding GPS drone, that pretty much flies itself, only real skill would be camera control but the flying part not so much, but as for FPV drones, we have bashers we build to crash and keep going, then there are small park flyers like toothpick type ones that are light, pretty fast, can handle little crashes but nothing to big as arms are thin, we do make them to handle a crash some more than others, when we go to the park we would tend to bring park flyers, so light as possible, keeping at tree level, zipping up and down paths, between trees, behind objects, around objects, we keep a eye on who is about where they are going, direction of people movement, we fly is a way they if we are to suddenly loos power for a example a prop brake off, they it would fall away from people, we know these drone like the back of hour hands, we set them up, we know there limits as we check them and upstand how to, we learn not to panic, we see so many silly rules from the CAA like making sure that software is up to date, with FPV if you get setup that works you leave it, as much as there might be a more up to date software it might have bugs in it, also you have not tested it, but you have the one you are currently using, you know the one you are using just works so why change that, for example i use crossfire, the firmware on it is pretty old now, but i see no point in updating it, i know how but i have testing the one i am on, but CAA would say i am out of date and should up date, i beg to differ, i just see all these rules not working for real life FPV, so as much as we would like to follow them all we cannot, main two rules always being broken is spotter and VLOS, yet we are safe and fly safe, manage risk always and respect others, we are just out there trying to have fun and unwind, yet treated like criminals by the CAA rules, i fly sub 250, my FPV are between 50 and 160 grams and i have camera drone that is a mini 2, always fly safe always respecting others, yet unable to comply with how the rules are set out, things need to go back to safety, if you can do it safety then there is no problem
Trouble is most police don't know drone laws and people are going to be fined for doing nothing wrong. We had police called out on us flying 249g drone and even tho the officers where really nice, they got the law so wrong and didn't want to listen to be aducated thed got it wrong.
But the majority of Police Officers don't know the laws regarding drones, surely forces are under enough pressure and the "even if you're given a ticket you have the right to challenge", how many people have the time, and why should they have to if the ticket was given by an officer who clearly was not up to date with drone law. Whilst I appreciate this is about making drone users be more aware of the law, if we have to take the time to study this, surely officers have to as well, so even more pressure!!
Also who has the right to deem what is causing harassment/distress. I'm sure we've all seen in many an 'audit video' drone users going out of their way to clearly cause distress, haven't we?
Hey David! It is going to be something we as a community need to keep a very close eye on. I wonder if a high level of appeals would deter officers from issuing notices unless they are confident of the facts. Also, the part over harassment/distress would actually mean the officer cannot issue a fixed penalty.
So according to Schedule 10 "(c) cause any person occupying any premises nuisance or annoyance relating to their occupation of the premises," does that mean if for instance you are auditing a business or company, they will be able to say that you are a nuisance and therefore a police officer can issue a fine?
No. If you read the main point (3) it states the constable believes the P did not, and did not intend to. It then list the scenarios, one of which you point out is in there. So, it is explaining in an overly complicated way that if that has happened, i.e. cause a nuisance, the P cannot be dealt with via a fixed penalty. More evidence would presumably need to gained for a wider charge.
As I say, it isn't written very well and has cause a lot of confusion.
Aha found your channel, my mate recommended you. Can I ask a question please. Is it legal to fly a drone over a petrol station ?
Hey! Thanks for finding us! Your question creates more questions in my mind.
There is no specific legislation mentioning the flight of drones over petrol stations as such. However, depending on the location of the station and the drone being flown, it could come down to distance from uninvolved people and whether or not that drone is allowed to over fly people. It is simple to solve but complex without more info.
Feel free to email me with more information and I will will try to answer more specifically. (sean@geeksvana.com).
Police as judge and jury, I can't see that being abused by some copper who makes his own laws up as he goes along, can you?
Am sure there must be a law on over use of Hawaiian Shirts. 😮
We have launched an urgent investigation. It has to be said, that particular shirt topped the last one and I thought pancakes on a shirt was the peak 😂🤣
What a load of rubbish! The amount of scooter/bike riders see breaking the law. Jumping traffic lights etc.... actually causing injury/death to them self's and the public. How about the police and law makers address this first!
I don't agree with these fines in some instances. and there's a few reasons.
1: you will get the "minted" people who don't give a damn about having to pay a £70 fine or what ever it will be.
2: its acceptable to break the rules as long as you pay (No points or removal of a license)
3: The Police aren't always squeaky clean and will dish out a fines like they do with speeding offences. as they can use "pacing" to track your speed which even for a police officer who's had training can still get it wrong. for example, many years ago i was pulled over for speeding... I didn't believe I was and he didn't have a radar reading it was his pacing calculation. I appealed and had to go to court where within 10 mins it was thrown out for not enough evidence.... My problem with this is i had to take time out of my crazy busy schedule to fight it.
4: the discussion we had a few weeks ago on people having access to historical flights... it feels like that will be scoured for people "breaking rules" and being hit with fines.
5: there is no alternative like for driving... if you get caught speeding whilst driving, you can pay a penalty notices and receive 3 points OR you can do a Driver Safety course.
Yes people Should be safe and follow rules, Yes registrations should be done and adhered to and yes if you're being a complete fool you should be fined for it... but I feel with the increase in Drone usage this will be used as a money spinner more and more.
I can see the benefits of enforcing rules and regs but I think Education is more important that just a fine.
Hey Mike! I would say I share a lot of the same concerns at various levels of priority. I hope the system evolves and becomes more sophisticated with 'droner aware' type options. I believe there was a UK force who started one before the pandemic.
The repeat offender issue is a problem area. The entire purpose of the fine is to deal with the issue on the spot, but perhaps they need a tracker of some type.
I don't know about the financial level yet but that might be high enough to deter to many repeats.
Great points though, thank you!
So if you fly over someones house and annoy the owner - FPN?
They will always make laws to get you. A person accidentally dropped a £10 note and they were fined for dropping litter.
Being fined for an offence, means it's not really an offence, plus people who have more money than to care, would be able to break this and be fined without worrying about the effect it would have on you. It's basically a tax or a price tag to pay for the police time needed to deal with you in the situation. It's not really an offence at all