@Miguel Cisneros I know what Molinism is and it's not based on biblical truths but of supposed distinct different kind of knowledge that God has. If one understands the doctrines of grace one would see that God's sovereignty and mankind's freedom are not in opposition to each other but are both true. One misconception of sovereignty is that it negates the free will of man but the bible is clear that it doesn't.
@@kjb1547 I read where a church historian traced it back to RUPERTUS MELDENIUS. Hey...it matters not :) When I come across some curious quote, putting in quotations is sufficient enough IMO to attribute it to s/one else. Or I might say, "Someone once said...". Cheers
This is a topic that comes up a lot, and while I've personally studied the Bible and especially apologetics, I've always felt on the outside of this argument because I never fully understood it. Thank you for this primer. I'd like to watch it a few more times to wrap my head around it and see what The Holy Spirit puts in my heart about this.
I love that ending statement you made. As a person who has been interested in science, particularly physics for my entire life, when I was saved, and read the Bible, the descriptions of God sounded alot like what physicists say interaction with a higher dimension we can't perceive would be. Basically, modern physics, describes space in 4 dimensions, time being the 4th. This is another direction, that we can't even comprehend, and can only experience snapshots as we pass through life. Basically, what i instantly thought when reading about God's omnipotence, omnipresence, and how God could know all things and there still be free will, is that having created the universe, God is above everything. He is able to interact with the 3rd dimension, yet see fully the 4th dimension, meaning when he looks at a person, he would see their entire life all at once. So when he created the world, it was the same way, all of what would happen on the earth, in God's eyes, was part of the earth when he made it. I still struggle to understand it, and I probably never will completely, but I would urge people to look at physics a bit, because the math of the universe seems to describe things and phenomenon that are very similar to the description of God in the Bible. God created everything, and knows the future, and at the same time, he gave us free will. Just because we cant comprehend that, doesn't mean it isn't true. God is not limited to the constraints of the human mind.
Let me call you a scientist with an open mind - and I appreciate you response. I revert to the term, "paradox," when considering the workings of a Transcendent God. This video discusses a paradox: that God is absolutely Sovereign and can run this business of His as He chooses and can foreordain what He wills; yet, He gave humans free will and we are accountable for the choices we make. As I've pondered this over the years, it seems impossible. Yet, from childhood, I've been taught that with God, all things are possible. I follow Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson, astrophysicist and current science rock star. As best I can tell, he is agnostic - not denying the existence of a Higher Power, but certainly mystified by how that Power chooses to manage things. One question he asks is, "How can God be All-powerful and All-good, yet allow the widespread suffering we see in this World?" Apart from wars and Man's greed why the natural disasters that occur - beyond Man's control? I don't have a pat response to such questions - and I certainly believe I worship a loving God who cares about every soul on this planet. I don't think we're supposed to comprehend everything He does and everything He allows this side of glory. And I heard that in your response. I'm amazed when any scientist humbles himself and accepts that there is a God in Heaven. In our age we demand logic, reason, explanations that can be measured and readily grasped. And our God is a God of reason: as if astrophysics and neuroscience are beyond the Creator of the Universe and the Sovereign of all time. I'll stop here. Just wanted you to know how encouraging you reply is to me. Thank you!
It’s really troubling to me that Christians get so carried away with Arminianism vs. Calvinism. Instead, can’t we recognize that God is transcendent and can be completely sovereign while giving us absolute freedom to use our wills, exactly like you explained.
because holding to your position of free will contradicts the Bibel. Man is not free from God thats why free will is not biblical , God does whatsoever he wills Romans 9 is very clear on that . If you are not reformed you are against Gods word and you are a heretic simpel as that
We are certainly volitional but I think it's a bit of an over statement to say we have absolute freedom. I don't know about absolute freedom because even God doesn't have absolute freedom. It is impossible for God to lie because it is contrary to his nature to do so just as it is contrary to a man's nature to fly like a bird. It was Luther not Calvin who said the natural man is free when it comes to things below him but not things above him. Man is free to do what he wishes but the Bible says there is none that seek God no not one. I am volitional and I'm free to eat a mud pie but I certainly am never going to do so because I don't wish to. God certainly stands in no one's way who would come to Christ but unfortunately their own nature often does which is why they are culpable. As Charles Spurgeon once said "all glory to God for salvation and all blame to man for damnation"!
@@Ryan-qh7ed it’s a pretty deep issue of contemplation. In Calvinism it would appear God gives arbitrary commandments with our lacking free will(why command people to do something who lack the ability and free will to do so). Then otherwise if Everything is made by God, and foreknown by God then how can we have free will at all. (Either way it ends up as “something we can’t fully understand” in this realm of understanding God) It’s also worth noting I have never seen in other religion or philosophy a satisfactory model of free will that doesn’t have missing pieces or paradox. Lastly Calvinism takes the cake for intellectual masterbation, like they can’t just use a normal explanation for the common man.....it’s always gotta sound like a dang seminary thesis, I barely finished high school lol
The issues you are having is because you are a heretic if you belive in arminianism thats why i recommend get out from that false system of belif and join the true church of the reformers
I love the video you did with Leighton Flowers about Calvinism, I think Christians don't have to be trapped into this Calvinism vs Arminianism binary mindset
You better believe that Mr Flowers is definitely Arminian. He has made it his whole "ministry" to attack Calvinism not at all balanced. it's OK to be an Arminian or a Calvinist but that shouldn't be your whole preoccupation with Christianity!
pot as Umm what are we talking about? You said the entire European church agrees with Calvinism which is false, and even if it weren’t that doesn’t make it true.
If it's about history, all the early Christian scholar (first five centuries) supported free Will. Dr. Ken Wilson does a good explanation about this topic
pot as The burden of proof lies with you, you made a historically accurate and false claim and I corrected you, and btw the Catholics who made up the majority of Europe certainly weren’t Calvinist.
ilkin engin You’re confusing terms. Abraham was called the Friend of God because he trusted and had faith in him. He was not the friend of God because God made him act in a particular way. Calvinists greatest error is deriving Gospel theology from the book of Romans. Also their obsession with John 6 and not all of Ephesians, but scattered verses from Chapter 1 and 2.
I'm not sure if I would be labeled a "Calvinist" or an "Arminian". All I know is, and I'm happy that this is the current limit of my theological understanding, I believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm a redeemed sinner and I will spend eternity in the heavenly places, with my Father who is LORD. I'm fine not knowing everything in the mind of God written in the scriptures. He will show me that which I'm able to understand in due time.
It seems like most evangelical churches in practice are 3-4 points of one and 1-2 points of the other. There's definitely a case to be made for a balanced approach.
This was excellent!!! Thank you 🙏🏽 brother for this video!!! I learned some new things from this video. It was helpful to have a quick history on how these two views came to be!
Great information. I feel there are lots of things to agree with on both sides but mostly I agree with armeniaism because God says it’s his will that no one should perish. Thank you!
I agree mostly with Calvinism because it makes solely God the initiator and perfector of our salvation. However, you made a good argument! That’s a good point. Thank you for the food for thought
Joseph Durraz 2 Peter 3:9- The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
I can do all things The key word in that verse is “us-ward” he’s not talking about the whole world but “us” which are the chosen of God. At least that’s what I got out of it.
I love God because He first loved me. When He asked me for my hand in marriage I would have been a fool to say no. All praise, honor and glory belong to the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world.
I never understood how people believed Calvinism...didn't God create man in "His" Image??? Doesn't man have free will??? (YES) If God "Elects or Chooses" who is and isn't saved then it's not free will, If God chooses you, then you never really had a choice...If "YOU" didn't choose God of your own free will then it's not real. If man as a sinner, hears the gospel and Chooses to give there life to the Lord and "ASKS" for salvation....that is real, that is true.
Man hears but why does he hear? Blank out. Man chooses but why does he choose? Blank out. Man asks but why does he ask? Blank out. If his hearing and his choosing and his asking are his doing independent of God then so is the credit and glory for his salvation. It is all his and his alone by your own logic and I challenge you to prove anything different! Now maybe you should think about that and then consider the alternative!
@@Faith-Ministries The obvious million flaws but for some strange reason you can't point out one in your reply is that right? I love your logical unassailable brilliant highly sophisticated argument. How profound and thoroughly biblical I never thought of that excellent rebuttal "I'm laughing at you"! I never considered such a great comeback. You should be a proud of your theological wisdom!!!
I think it’s very simple God said we were created in his image like God we have free will we have a choice nobody can force us God won’t force us just like Satan can’t force us he can tempt us but he can’t force us you have to make a choice to accept salvation that’s why it’s called “ACCEPT” salvation
It's really simple. Either faith comes first or regeneration comes first. Either God acts and we respond or We act and god responds. Either God is ultimate or we are. It is one or the other. I know what my Bible teaches.
Who are we created in the image of, God or the devil? Who is totally depraved God or the devil? Calvin had 56 dissenters executed in Geneva because they rejected his heresies. What more needs to be said?
This is not about Calvin. You better be careful sir you're treading on dangerous ground. Yes man was created in God's image but he fell, have you ever heard of original sin? If you teach that man's nature was unchanged and the image of God was not marred in him through sin you're denying a cardinal doctrine of Christianity that has been believed by all orthodox Christians everywhere always!
I was drawn to the 5" explanation promise you made; and you delivered. I was searching for a confirmation that Calvinists believe in the once-saved-always-saved heresy because it has been said that the suddenly popular Voddie Baucham is a Calvinist. I was really impressed with his preaching and, therefore, I wanted a refresher course on what Calvin's is. So I appreciate your video. I don't believe in the TULIP theology; so I suppose that my beliefs would be considered Arminianist, at least, for the most part anyway.
Could God roll a dice that he doesn't know the outcome to it if he thought about it really hard? If no, Calvinism Could God roll a dice that he wouldn't know the outcome to it if he didn't think about it really hard? If no, definitely Calvinism If yes, could we be like the dice, and can free will exist without foreknowledge, or with hidden foreknowledge? Could God roll a dice and give the dice its own choice how to land? Is God creative enough to create a spirit in the dice so free that he himself would be surprised at what the dice landed on? What if God wanted it this way? Could he do it? If Yes to these, definitely Arminianism or even partly Open Theistic Would God be responsible for the outcome of the dice? In what way?
If God knew in hindsight that u were about to trip on a banana peel that doesn't mean he put the peel in front of you or directed your foot to the banana peel. So NO to calvinism.
There’s nothing about Arminianism that suggests God isn’t sovereign or doesn’t know everything. Him knowing everything doesn’t change the fact that we have the free will to choose even if he knows what we will choose. Just because I know it’s going to rain tomorrow doesn’t mean I’m causing it to rain.
I know you can't do justice to this controversy in five minutes - but I applaud you for this effort and for challenging us to go deeper. Since high school, my grasp of Calvinism disturbed me because I could not see the God I worshipped ordaining that some would be saved despite their depravity and others would be lost despite their efforts to respond to Him. I know we're not saved by our works - it's God's grace; however, the Word tells us faith without works is dead - and we cannot claim to be His without striving to do His works - what He asks us to do. I don't believe John Calvin would embrace Calvinism as it has come to us today. Now, Arminianism is a term I've likened to Gnosticism so far as my understanding that it approaches heresy. Actually, this video has helped me get a better grasp of the views of Arminius - and though I a more in line with the assertion of free will and Christ's sacrifice for all, I would not think of being a disciple of Arminius. I am a disciple of Jesus Christ and I look to the Holy Spirit to guide me to what is true and complete doctrine. It's been some journey. I do not intend to be critical of your short format. You whet the appetite in this microwave age of short attention spans and lust for instant gratification. Thank you!
Best part of the video for me was the drop of grace part at 2:16 Calvinism has a way of making humans seem even worse than they already are by removing *all* good from them to begin with (wait, how are babies going to heaven then?), making them more like beasts of nature than image bearers of God Just because you are created with heavy flaws and a sin nature, doesn't necessarily mean you are as bad as (or worse than) the demons No where I can find that in the Bible at least
““They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt; There is no one who does good, not even one.” Psalms 14:3 NASB Quoted again by Paul in Romans. Yes, total depravity is biblical. This is literally the only point that both Calvinists and Arminians agree on. Yes Babies are totally depraved too. They go to Heaven the same way any of the rest us do; by God’s Grace alone.
@@TheJewStar the definition of good there is "moral excellence" Obviously both sides agree that no one is morally excellent like Jesus However some people are better than others, read Matthew 11:11 If everyone is "totally deprived" how does that happen?
Eric Smyth When searching Scriptures, did you find words like “predestined” “chosen” “foreknew” “you did not chose me but I chose you” “holy calling” “foreknowledge” “many are called but few are chosen” and the list goes on... It is a terrible mistake (and one that I’ve made) to bring our own theology and preconceived human notions to Scripture to make it say what we want it to say. Why would God chose some to be saved and others to be lost? The real question should be l: “Why would he chose to save anybody?
@Eric Smyth, ''(wait, how are babies going to heaven then?)'' Easy for the Calvinist to answer: If they are one of the elect since the foundation of the world they will surely go to heaven... If NOT, then they will be damned to hell...
@@EricSmyth2Christ, Basically Calvinism is a very Beautiful Biblical doctrine about 'Election and Predestination', about the 'L' which is Limited Atonement... and about 'P' which means Preservation of the saints, or OSAS...=>>> However John Calvin did not understand the entirety of the Biblical 'Election and Predestination', So he added his own understanding without Scriptural Support and some are even Contradictory to the Scriptures that makes his doctrine false and therefore evil..... =>>>>> John Calvin and all his followers do not know that the Elect(Sheep) are the True Children of God by heredity.... and the reprobates(goats) are the children of the devil by heredity also... Had God reveal this to him, Calvinism is the most Beautiful and Powerful doctrine now existing aside from the Bible Itself.....
Romans 8:28-30 [28] And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. [29] For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. [30] And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Friedrich Beuchner said something like it is possible for a 2 yr old to have complete freedom to do something and at the same time for the parent to know the kid so well he already knows what he will choose
Jesus also said when we believe on Him we immediately have eternal life. So I definitely believe in eternal security. But irresistible grace is unbiblical and so is unconditional election.
Pk Amponn Losing your salvation isn’t biblical. Jesus said we enter eternal life when we believe on Him which debunks the idea that we can lose our salvation
@Pk Amponn what happens if you are saved. You are driving down the road and a truck hits you head on. Right before you die, you swear(sin). Are you then going to hell? I would argue no, as I am a non-Calvinist. What about the folks jumping to their death on 9-11 in the towers to avoid burning to death. Are they damned to hell? Problem with the doctrine that teaches one can lose their salvation is noone has been able to explain Biblically or intelligently to me which sin causes one to lose salvation. Since the Bible teaches correctly sin is sin, I would argue once saved is always saved. Unrepentant sin is an example of someone who was never saved to begin with IMHO. Gods grace is bigger than any man's actions. Christ going to the cross eliminated the need to be saved over and over again. I believe losing your salvation and needing to be saved again and again is kin to demanding Jesus die over and over. Just my understanding of scripture. God bless.
Would love to meet John the Baptist. I’d probably answer to the concert (before) as Jo Stafford or Ella Fitzgerald. But now, I agree to another comment, David harping and singing psalms. Not to mention hearing angels worshipping. 😍 A big, fat YES, Yahushua as Master and Messiah! 🥰🙏🏼💕✝️
I would rather believe in Calvinism which means PRE destination and is biblical like it says in Ephesians 1:4-5 & 1:11 Romans 8:29 30 rather than what people call Free Will choice that is not biblical in fact Jesus spoke against Free Will choice in Matthew 7:21-23 and 2nd Peter 2:9-10 and Titus 1:7-8. Those that do their own fleshly will are going to BURN 🔥 in HELL for ETERNITY. Read the SCRIPTURES and see what Jesus said.
I do agree with your last sentence.... God is sooo great.... big enough ....to... If we stand before a huge cube... we only see "a square" we completely ignore that in reality it is a huge cube! And why do we do that? Because we are so small... I believe that God is sovereign, yet, (because he is love) gave us the free will to choose.... Let God be God and because of what we know of his heart revealed through the cross.... Let's love and serve him ❤️😊
Dear Dr. Kyle Bailey I do thank you!! May God bless you and help you to continue to share the truth in an intelligent understandable way, help us to think...thank you!
Hi Therese. Its interesting we both use the "cube" as an illustration to illustrate the "bigness" of our God. We humans are but a very very tiny dot in front of a very huge cube. God in His sovereignty made a way so He presented Himself to humans through the 3 distinct persons, Father Son and the Holy Spirit which we called Trinity. Trinity to me is like the 3 faces of that cube, the front view, side view and top view and yes despite these views, that tiny dot would still not be able to comprehend the totality of that cube. The same is with this issue of God's sovereignty and the free will of man which are both declared in the bible. Philosophy called such as ANTINOMY. These two truths from the bible seem to be contradicting each other but both are truths declared by our God which we cannot fully comprehend. As someone said, "antinomy is the result of a finite being trying to grasp the infinite, and failing."
Hi Roger 😊 I always get deeply moved at "the wonder of the triune God, "one being - revealed in three persons"! 🤔 But, I see, I will have to correct my first message, apparently it's not clear what I meant... I did not use the picture of the cube to illustrate God, (this makes me feel uneasy) juste used this picture to illustrate our limitations! When we stand bevor a huge cube, we juste see a square... but in reality there is a cube! Do you see the difference... Me too, I did wrestle with the issue of the sovereignty of God and the free will. Was first more influenced by Arm. and then was taught Calvn. Calvinism really helped me to better grasp the depth of Gods grace. But, it seems to me, we should neither teach A nor C but the risen Christ! Who saves WHOEVER believes in him (Rom.1.16)! Hallelujah 🌟 The more I come to see (by Gods grace 😊) the beauty, mercy, kindness of God, his overwhelming grace, came to understand that "God is LOVE "... this question lost its sting, just learned to bow before God and submit/accept that the bible teaches both, for us it is, as you say an "Antinomy", but... who are we... One day we shall see how this works out ... today it belongs to the list "of Gods secrets". May God bless you!
@@theresepfister139 /// But, I see, I will have to correct my first message, apparently it's not clear what I meant... I did not use the picture of the cube to illustrate God, (this makes me feel uneasy) juste used this picture to illustrate our limitations!/// haha, dont worry. I am sure we mean the same and I fully understand what you mean. I guess my explanation is the one that fall short in illustrating our limitation. To me, that "cube illustration" is the simple illustration I used to use in explaining the vastness, the infiniteness of God to us finite beings. Remember, we can never illustrate nor explain God in His totality. You are right in saying, "we are using that cube picture to illustrate our limitations". I used to be a DRAFTSMAN doing mechanical drawings of machine parts before and one day while meditating the word of God, that illustration dawned on me. When drawing a machine part, you are to show its front view, side view top view and then the isometric view (a view or angle that shows all those 3 views) so that the fabricator has a clear picture of that part. Then it dawned on me, God, like a cube, revealed Himself as a Triune Being and like those three views, God the Father is the front view, God the Son the side view and God the Holy Spirit the top view. Then again I wonder, why despite God revealing Himself as 3 distinct person yet we can't fully comprehend Him? Then it dawned on me, like a very tiny ant in front of that huge cube, even if it moves backward and at a distance see the side of it and its top, yet that ant still has a very limited view and understanding of that cube. With regards to your comment, views and conviction about Gods sovereignty and freewill of man you posted above, I can say we are one in those convictions. God bless you too !!
I had read that John and Abigail Adams were of the Armenian faith and they didn't believe in a Messiah for their atonement. They believed God would judge them "alone" for their actions.
Yeah well guess what, AS Calvinists boast, WE BOAST IN THE LORD, as you arminians are LOST in the SAUCER behind the CROSS, cause Free Will CHOICE is NOT 🚫 biblical. In fact Jesus spoke against it in Matthew 7:21 23 YOU NEED TO READ YOUR BIBLE
Then you are not paying attention, as there is a huge contingent of Arminians online. You seem to be falling victim to the "anyone not a Calvinist is an Arminian but doesn't know it" misunderstanding.
If you could change the position of your prompter or sheets you're reading from so that you look straight into the camera and your audience instead of sideways at them. It's distracting. Just a suggestion...
Exact definitions can be a little funny, but in broad strokes: "Calvinism" is typically just the soteriology (how you are saved) of the Reformation as laid out in the Canons of Dort (although sadly, most people just use a pretty shoddy incomplete version summarized by TULIP and ignore the details of what Calvinists mean by it). "Reformed" is all the doctrines of the Reformation taken together. It includes the soteriology of course, but also includes covenant theology, the nature of God, sacraments, church organization, and a bunch of other stuff, much of which is not very controversial. A Reformed church is confessional, meaning we find what is laid out in the Westminster Confession or the Three Forms of Unity (those being the two most common confessions in use, though there are others) is a good representation of the scripture's teachings. I'd highly recommend reading the Westminster Confession for a good overview of things we find important; or at least the Canon's of Dort if you want to understand what TULIP is about.
I am neither a Calvinist nor Arminian. But I will leave it to God the Father to reconcile both views. As both views are biblical. Do you agree with me ?
Matt. 1:21 Jesus says: For he shall save HIS people. Didn't say ALL people. Calvinism is the perfect approach to the scripture. Though God is sovereign, we have to do our responsibility and obey His commandments. Arminianism accepts the fact that its okay to God for His people to go away from Him. Professing christians would assume that its ok temporarily God would still be merciful. The scripture even mentioned about people who called Him Lord Lord have we... yet God replied I necer knew you ye workers of iniquity, depart from me!
1 Timothy 2:3-4 - “This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
In the last 30 seconds he revealed his twisted theology by stating, "these two can be reconciled at the same time." He is totally wrong and thoroughly confused. God is sovereign in salvation. Free-will is heresy from hell. Sola Scriptura!
Predestination means God knew he would call you to become a Christian before you were born that's all , and you do not have to take your calling . People not called are not being judged for salvation they will get their chance when resurrected .
The Glory of Jesus on the cross once seen explains not only salvation but reveals to the individual that sees it how to ask for salvation and reveals all of the hidden things of G-D in His words and Jesus's words. Also once seen reveals your real choices which is not to get saved but whether to ask or not ask for salvation.
1) Calvin certainly didn't set out to have a particular Soteriology named after him. 2) When it comes to Divine sovereignty and human free will it could as well be called Lutheranism. 3) What you're calling Calvinism was the view of nearly every one of the reformers and protestants in general until the time of John Wesley so why does Calvin get all the blame or credit depending on your view?
@@kevincarney1984 It's possible this is the authentic interpretation of the bible. It sounds bad because it makes God sound evil, but now that I've left Christianity, that would explain why. So it all checks out now.
The point of view from the giver and the point of view from the receiver, truth in context. The Holy Spirit will lead you to the truth as Gods ways are higher than our ways. Everything is predetermined in hindsight.
@@kevincarney1984 I think it is rather bold for a person to title his book, “The Institutes of The Christian Religion”. This is going a bit too far. And you are correct in saying that it is his private interpretation. We can except all or part of it. I really don’t even feel the need to read it.
I thought this was alright, but the biggest issue I have is framing it in terms of one side being about God's sovereignty and the other about man's free will. In reality, both positions say man has a free will and that God is sovereign; they disagree on the extent and implications of that. Obviously (trigger warning), Calvinism provides the more Biblical answer and correctly frames their relationship. But we shouldn't think that just because we don't like the Reformed theory of free will or our preferred theory is different then therefore the Reformed theory doesn't exist. Westminster Confession chapter 9 is a good overview for the Reformed position.
@@oracleoftroy Secondary causes don't exist the moment you know everything prior to the act of creating it. You can believe it if you want, but its logically contradictory.
@@justindavis2711 How so? Let's get concrete: I don't get why you think God can't make gravity if he knows everything, including the future positions of all masses affected by gravity.
@@oracleoftroy Im not arguing that God cannot create gravity. I'm arguing that if God knew with 100% certainty the end result of all future positions of masses affected by gravity, then it goes without saying that the end result was already set in stone prior to the act of creation. The concept of secondary causes states that certain things can evolve independantly of the primary act. But if God knows with 100% certainty, the outcome prior to creating it, then they cannot evolve independantly. They were fixed from the beginning. This is what I mean when i say that secondary causes stop existing the moment you know everything prior to the act of creating it. You become the primary cause the moment you know with 100% certainty what the outcome will be, because this eliminates the possibility of independent evolution of the creation. If God designed all laws governing the principals and effects of our choices, and knew what our choices would be with 100% certainty before creating the universe, then it logically follows that all of existence was a blueprint within the mind of God prior to the act of creation. This eliminates free will, because free will only exists if we have possible options. And certainty is the opposite of possibility.
Calvinism or the Doctrines of Sovereign Grace is more rooted in Scripture than Arminianism/ Semipelagianism which is rooted in assumptions and emotions. God ways are so much higher than our ways...
I believe on "man's free will" & "God's sovereignty". I am Armenian & Calvinist. Well except on the Calvinist chocking point == "Christ died only for the elect". Pick-up the good & spit-out the bad. Above all :To live is Christ & to die is gain(Phil.1:21).
Christ died for whom the father has given him. We know that it is not all people. The Bible also says that God's desire is for all to be saved, but this is not his will. People mix up will and desire and when we do we lose context. You see God had a plan from the beginning to save his chosen.
@@sophiagauthier8552 Hey, youtube wouldn't let me reply to you for some reason. I wrote the reply in the general comments. (hopefully this goes through)
I feel like we try too hard to equate God's mind and His wisdom to our own... He is ALL wise, ALL knowing, and ALL powerful. We cant understand bc our ways of thinking are nowhere near the level of God's. God is so powerful and so soveirgn that we have complete free will to choose, but God is so wise and all knowing that it doesnt matter which path we choose, He still already knows what the outcomes with be under every single circumstance... No matter which way we go. He is so in control over it all, that it does not matter what we do, He still knows the outcome. This true and loving form of control is not something that we can understand or wrap our pea brains around..
You are actually in control of your actions. God gave every single individual the option to choose or reject His free gift of salvation. Jeremiah 32:35 "they set up their vile images in the house that bears my name and defiled it. 35 they built high places for Baal in the valley of ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded-nor did it enter my mind-that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin." God did not command these people 2 sacrifice their sons and daughters for Baal. These people did it anyway. We call that free will. An Omnibenevolent, Omniscient, and Omnipotent God I serve could have avoided this if he wanted 2. He didn’t. God bless you.
Well,,, in my humble opinion I don't really care about the debate. The Word says that God knew you before he laid the foundations of the earth. Jesus also said, no one comes to the Father except through me and no one comes to me unless my Father calls them. So, if God knew who would be saved before the earth was even created and who would be cast into the lake of fire. Then it would seem He chose you long before you chose Him. That seems like pre-election to me. Like God said to Job, Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? So,,, who are we to try and know the Father's mind? His ways are higher than ours. His wisdom and knowledge are greater than ours.
As a Calvinist, I don’t think this is a good examination of the two sides. A few statements you said seemed to grossly misrepresent the views of myself and the many Calvinist preachers I regularly listen to, and the many Calvinists I’ve seen or know personally. I could definitely sense a strong Arminian leaning, with a kind of attempt to remain unbiased. And really, Scripture does provide the answers to Calvinism vs. Arminianism. And I can say with full conviction that Calvinism is not just supported by Scripture, but is overwhelmingly supported by Scripture. There should be no debate on it at all. It’s ok to take a stance. You don’t have to pretend to be unbiased, and if you try to be unbiased, at least come out and state it up front so that any potential biases can be weighed by the viewers, some of whom are not very educated on this topic. And you seemed to pit God’s election and predestination against God’s love, which is not true in the slightest. God loves the world in general, but he loves his own glory even more (actually, the most). Everything he does is for his glory and the good of the elect, who love God. And your image of God electing people being likened to dragging them kicking and screaming into heaven made no sense 😂 Heaven is objectively the best place for a man to be, and Hell is objectively the worst. That’s like saying that rescuing a child who doesn’t want to leave a burning home a bad thing because he didn’t want to be rescued. Which is loving: to save the child even though he doesn’t want to be rescued, or to leave him there because of his “free will?” The thing is, God in his mercy saved totally depraved sinners who would NEVER choose God (Paul quoted from the Psalms in Romans to show that all were under sin, and that no one is good, and no one seeks after God). So the only people God can save are those who aren’t seeking for him (initially). You can see how the arguments for Calvinism were very weak or lacking in this video. You should instead host a debate between a popular Calvinist and popular Arminian. That would more accurately represent the two sides I believe.
It would be terrifying to think that the universe was created by the Calvinist God. The Calvinist God is the Talmudic bean counter God who keeps a cosmic ledger that records every infraction you commit as an infinite debt you can never repay. Calvinism sells us the idea that every human who is born into this world has imputed guilt from Adam. You are guilty the day they are born. You are deserving of wrath and the eternal torments of hell from the day you are conceived. The justice of God in Calvinism is based on Augustine's doctrine of original sin. That doctrine teaches that you were in Adam and you are culpable for Adams sin before ever making a willful choice of your own. So Calvinism teaches that you bear the guilt for someone else's sin, an act that occurred thousands of years ago by a man who is your ancient grandfather. So justice in the Calvinistic scheme is not based on any notion of human justice. God's justice in Calvinism is based on holding you under guilt for someone's sin committed thousands of years ago. You can't even find a 3rd world country that has such a screwed up philosophy of justice. Because no one would consider that to be a rational system of equity at any level. If people would read history they would know that many church fathers opposed Augustine's doctrine of Original sin. Because Augustine invented a new idea that no one had ever taught. The well-established doctrine of ancestral sin taught that we are "NOT" guilty of Adams sin, but we bear the consequences of Adams sin. Death (Mortality), Sin, and bondage to Satan's power. The Reformation has many problems because the Protestant Reformers followed Augustine. The Reformers did not start their movement on the principle that Christianity was based on the common and universal teachings of the historical church. Christianity is not based on the teachings of one man. Just think how much difference it makes to say that we are not guilty of Adam's sin. Every doctrine in Calvinism is based on the foundation that you are guilty of Adams sin. Rejecting this one doctrine as false means that the whole skyscraper of Calvinism crumbles. Because Augustine was wrong. The doctrine of total depravity in Calvinism is predicated on one original sin that destroys human NATURE thus destroying the human will itself. That is why in Calvinism man's NATURE is totally evil. Calvinism is Manicheanism. Once you accept the Calvinistic/Augustinian presuppositions you get many other false beliefs. Because one heresy just produces more heresies. A good place to start would be Jay Dyer's video "Protestantism and Evangelicalism Refuted" on UA-cam. Stay away from Calvinism. It is toxic to your soul.
@@SShandlerwaffen I believe that all men were made to be good. To the extent that we do good, we image God. And to the extent, that we do things that are against our nature we lose our humanity. We become, unlike God. All men do good and evil. Because of the fall, all men suffer the consequence of Adam's sin. Death and corruption. Corruption in the sense of human nature is now subject to death. Our mortal flesh is now weak and subject to inordinate passions. We engage in blameless passions such as eating. And we can engage in blameful passions due to the weakness of our flesh. Grace is both in the church and in the world. That is why an atheist can do good work. So your question is answered by saying that man is both good and by his willful actions can choose to move away from the good. God made all men to be good by nature. Evil does not exist until we chose to move away from good.
Please just list the actual scripture references that you speak of for Calvinism or should I say your version of Calvinism. All this talk and chatter without the actual scriptural references is useless. Thank you.
@@Totem360 You're asking me a very wide general question. What specifically are you referring to? I was deformed for 23 years, living near Westminster Seminary in Southern California. Went to a Presbyterian Church for 23 years. Westminster Confession of Faith, 5 point Calvinist, Covenant Theology etc etc. I'm not giving you my version. It's exactly what Calvinism teaches. In fact, it is worse. I'm just being nice.
It depends on the Extreme you take them to. You certainly can't be a hyper Calvinist and a hyper Arminian at the same time. Even Calvin said that there are some truths of God we must apprehend that perhaps we cannot comprehend. In other words we accept them by faith. According to Deuteronomy 29:29 the secret things belong to God.
Instead of debating Calvin / Arminius re: Biblical salvation, please trust Gods word; inspired by the Holy Spirit and profitable for teaching, reproof, correction, training [2 Tim 3 v16] and literally says: *He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world* that we would be *holy and blameless* before Him. *He predestined* us to adoption as sons *through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will* [Eph 1 v4-5]. There are many just like it. God said: *avoid foolish controversies* regarding the law that lead to endless discussions/strife [Titus 3 v9; 1 Tim 6 v20; 2 Tim 2 v16]. *Share the gospel* instead!
I reject both Calvinism and Arminianism both WICKED man-centered teachings. I DON'T HAVE TO BE EITHER ONE OF THESE. You will NOT find the names John Calvin or Jacobus Arminius in my KJV Bible.
Is evil God's making or is evil out of His sovereignty? Both propositions are disturbing but I'm at peace with saying there's mystery and God is totally sovereign.
Ryungun Rie Hello Ryungun. Hope you are well. God can never do anything evil The Bible says in James 1:13 let no one say when he is tempted, “ I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.” Satan who is evil itself wants us to think God is creating evil things that happen to us so we will be mad at him instead of looking to Him for help. Have a blessed day! KW
@Rocky Severino. Hello Rocky. Thank you for your response. You are right! Isaiah does say that and in the translations I looked up it calls evil-calamities. Since I am not a bible scholar, I had to research to be able to reply. I got some interesting points from GotQuestions.org and BibleTools.org. They both explain how God does not create moral evil-you know sin and wickedness, but does create at times, judgements and calamities on those who rebel-unrepentantly-against Him and His word and his ways. They said this is not making evil but bringing or allowing calamities or hardship or even using evil through people to turn people around from hard hearted rebellion against him and his Lordship.
Rocky Severino. I sent message to early. Just wanted to add that as I’m sure you believe that God is utterly good kind and loving and finish with Jeremiah 29:11 where God says “I know the plans that I have for you, plans of good and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.” God bless you. KW KW
John chapter 6 Jesus said to Peter you did not choose me I chose you that's God's unconditional election and total depravity ,... man was unable to choose god without God first loving him and revealing himself to him. 2nd . ...John 3 ,Jesus to Nicodemus explaining the holy spirit's sovereignty in election in our Salvation the spirit goes wherever he Wills. That s just two points of Calvinism. Calvinism is not actually anything other than biblical truth. you can study all five points of Calvinism and see that it's biblical but the sound bite types of teachings are not enough to understand what true biblical truth is regarding the acronym tulip please study this in more depth than this 5 minute site has provided God bless you all. Study to show thyself approved unto God a Workman that needeth not to be ashamed rightly dividing the word of Truth 2nd Timothy 2:15. Jesus Christ said in John 6 no one can come to me unless the father draw him first but all that come to me I will in no wise cast out. God does the electing and man's responsibility is to respond to God and this is a mystery but both are true.
Jeff Hughes Calvinism is not biblical truth. It’s someone’s interpretation of what they figure is true. That’s they they call it Calvinism. No one ever became a Calvinist from reading scripture alone. You must be taught to be a Calvinist from another Calvinist. It is a religion for those who still want to hold to some sort of intellectual superiority and still be labeled a Christian. One teaching of biblical truth that destroys the 5 points of Calvinism is the fact that you can lose your salvation. According to scripture you can, according to Calvin you can’t.
@@jesuschristsaves9067 explain to me Romans chapter 8 where Paul says for I am persuaded that neither death nor life nor angels nor principalities nor things present nor things to come nor anything else in all creation shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our lord. Then explain to me Jude...., for he is able to present you faultless before the Throne of his glory with great joy. Then explain to me John 10. 27and28 and following ....I know my sheep said Lord Jesus Christ and my sheep hear my voice and follow me I lose none of my sheep furthermore my father who gave my sheep to Me loses none of my sheep..., I and the father are one. explain to me for Philippines 1:6 where Paul declares ..., being confident of this very thing, he who has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. Don't talk in circles. answer my questions about these passages which do unequivocally declare the security of the believer and that is impossible to lose your salvation,.... According To Jesus Christ ...,according to the father according to the Apostle Paul and according to all other teachers in the scriptures ...,prophets and apostles and every holy prophet of God.
@@jesuschristsaves9067 Calvinism did NOT start with Calvin...it's also known as Pauline-Augustinianism as both St. Paul taught and later St. Augustine held to these core beliefs.
To be honest, I thought that this video framing the debate as God's sovereignty verses free will was the weakest part. Calvinism has a doctrine of man's free will; it shouldn't be glossed over. Check out Westminster Confession chapter 9 for an overview.
ofcourse Christians can lose their salvation, The New Testament is full of warnings. John 10 should not be taken in such a way that we cannot fall. Such doctrine leads to a worldly Christian, one who feeds his flesh
Excuse me would you expect no warnings? The purpose of warnings is to keep people on the right track they are a means of avoiding something. That can't be used as proof that believers can lose their salvation. Such doctrine as yours leads to insecurity inward focus and a failure to spread the good news of God's free grace out of fear that someone might catch the disease of sin and lose their salvation!
@@just.browsing that's false, in Calvinism when God chooses an outcome it comes true 100 percent of the time, hence irresistible grace. In armeniesm however they believe that God looks down the tunnel of time and allows them to choose not knowing what they will do. Saying that means God has to learn and if God has to learn then he isn't truly God. The God of the Bible is All Knowing.
@@ThineBean If God knows in hindsight that you're about to trip on a banana peel does not mean he put the peel in front of you nor directed ur foot to the banana peel. So NO to calvinism.
Scripture seems to tell stories of people who choose God or Reject him as well as people who are chosen by God and intentionally left out of salvation by God.
Calvanism is basically God coding RTS videogame and then playing it by himself - except the A.I in the game are fully conscious, and he coded it so that most of them (including babies) end up being tortured for trillions and trillions of years, without end, as a consequence for correctly following his direct design. Also, it claims God is loving, despite being infinitely worse than Hitler and Satan combined 😁 The funniest thing is, Calvanists tend to apply a moral imperative to believe the calvanist doctrine, despite the fact that the doctrine claims that every unbeliever is only an unbeliever because God wills them to be one.
This is just the more pretentious, "grown-up" version of asking "Can Superman beat up Goku?" Arguing about exactly which magical traits a character in a book (who is an invisible, undetectable, unfalsifiable being with unlimited, blank-cheque magical powers) has, is just bizarre. Even if we ignore the fact that magic isn't real, and assume that a god DOES exist, exactly how are any of these people getting this knowledge about what specific traits this god has? To argue EITHER side of this issue, is to assume that you're omnipotent, and have the power to "know" the unknowable. If they're not knowingy lying to their readers, then (more likely) they're lying to themselves. If ANY of this stuff could be shown to be true, there wouldn't be 4,000 contradictory religions on earth, all bickering about their unsupported, occult stories of magical acts- In fact, we'd have no use for ideas like "religion" or "faith", at all; All this stuff about god's traits would just be "science" or "history", or just "how things are", like anything else that actually exists in the real world. There's never been a religion demanding belief in "air", or preaching that water freezes at 0 degrees c... Because you don't need "religion" or "faith" to compel belief in things that ARE true, and DO have reasonable evidence... You only need religion/faith, for claims that DON'T have reasonable basis for belief.
People are asking the wrong question. The question shouldn't be whether Calvinism or Arminianism is the correct view. The question should be 'Would God inspire Holy Scripture that cannot be understood by committed Christians or whose meaning cannot be agreed upon even by NT scholars and senior Church leaders'? If the answer is 'no' - then ignore the texts that cause the confusion as they're obviously not inspired Holy Scripture. You get rid of Paul's letters and Hebrews and you get rid of the confusion.
This is what happens when men leave the church and create new doctrines and theologies. The only true church, has remained the same for 2,000 years, it has put together the canon of scripture, it has defined Christology and doctrines with ecumenical councils.
Oh yeah, that great church which elects heretical spokespersons for Christ on earth who contradict all of His teachings, and who pray to graven images, to boot. Luckily nobody takes Catholics seriously anymore.
@@TheNabOwnzz The church defined who was heretics, are you serious? Lol. The church defined what was scripture, the church defined what was doctrine , dogmas. You have no clue what you’re talking about. Go listen to your rock concert on Sunday morning, I’m sure that’s how the apostles worshipped 😂
@@jj691 ...? It's clear you have no idea what you're talking about, actually. You do realize the Catholic church changes every year? How is this compatible with Scripture and an unchanging God? I reckon i don't need to explain why the pope is a heretic, and why post modern Catholic Churches adorned by rainbow flags are the zenith of fiendishness.
In my humble opinion, Calvinism makes it sound as if God will save "person A" NO MATTER WHAT even if "person A" gets wind of this and then still chooses to go and live a sinful life all because they know they will be saved in the end.
May I clear something up, we don't know who the elected are. We preach come all who are heavy laden and I will give you rest to everybody because we don't know who the elect are. Those whom God allows to be saved will be saved through the hearing of the gospel. Also we know through reading the scriptures that after salvation you live a life that revolves around Christ, not the world.
It seems you don't understand Calvinism. Calvinism actually teaches the perseverance of the Saints which means those who are truly believers will continue to live for Christ to the very end because of the sustaining grace of God. The modern once saved always saved foolishness that says you can raise your hand in Sunday school at seven years of age then leave and go out and live a godless wicked life after that is not Calvinism at all and Calvin would be the first one to repudiate and revile that teaching!
I see in this video a message that both Calvinism and Arminianism have infused into Christianity deep thinking and both have produced valuable think tanks that have fed into Judeo-Christian foundations.
*Jonathan* For all the Calvinists I've run into, they come off as being all too interested in converting s/one to Calvinism. Isn't *GOD* awesome Jonathan?
@@Kman. Yes I must agree God is the awesome one but it is also awesome to understand that God is awesome and that is the essence of Calvinism. Nevertheless I agree with the spirit of what you are saying. Spurgeon who was an ardent Calvinist had nothing but praise for his zealous Arminian brothers who lived a good and godly life in Christ.
@@Kman. I understand that and I also would prefer not to identify as a Calvinist per se in any other area than my Soteriology. I am a Baptist by the way and would not have been welcome in John Calvin's church in Geneva. I would like to think of myself primarily as a Biblicist not a Calvinist. Nevertheless I definitely lean toward that Soteriology. Grace and peace to you. Maranatha to you as well, come Lord Jesus.
I see a loose parallel between Calvinist/Arminians and Conservative/Liberals.....one side is bibliocentric...the other leans emotional. One side is logical...the other, again, emotional.
OSAS isn’t biblical that’s total Calvinist belief. The Bible says stand firm until the end that is a daily relationship with God. Some have fallen away from the faith.
pot as I believe scripture. Not the doctrines of men. The term OSAS is not a biblical one. You do not have to be commanded to abide in Christ if coming to Christ is all that is needed. You also do not need to be warned if justification is all that God has to do in order to secure your salvation.
pot as The issue is that you’ve learned a doctrine before examining it in the scriptures. Salvation is of God, but the way that God designed salvation is that man cooperates with the Work of God. Man must be born by the spirit and water. These are not works of man, but works of God operated by men. Man is required to repent, yet scripture teaches that God grants repentance. Man is commanded to abide and endure to the end, yet scripture teaches that God will keep you by grace. That is why we must work out, not for, our salvation with fear and trembling, but giving God the glory. The OSAS is a Calvinistic philosophy, but it is also practiced among baptist and a scattered few denominations. Jesus’ promise are to those who will respond to him. OSAS uses terminology foreign to scripture.
God destines everything and we also have 100% free will. Here's the way it can work. If God exists outside of space and time inorder to create space and time, he can choose which universe to exist with it's set of outcomes (including the free choice of human beings). Which means God logically can be sovereign, predestining everything and we can have all the choice as mankind, to be evil or good. God is 100% sovereign and gives us 100% choice because he wants us to be free creatures inorder that we can have a relationship with him if we so choose.
HOW CAN ANYONE WHO IS LOST IN SIN OR DARKNESS MAKE A FREE WILL CHOICE TO SAVE THEMSELVES? IT'S 100% IMPOSSIBLE. God ALMIGHTY has chosen ALL of HIS CHOSEN ELECT out of the WORLD 🌎 and GIVEN to JESUS BEFORE the FOUNDATION of the WORLD 🌍 according to the scriptures. In fact read these verses as a Bible study and it will take you to another level in your walk. IT DID ME 🎚️❤️🙏 IT'S BEST TO USE KJV Matthew 25:34 John 17 5 and 6 John 17:24 Ephesians 1:4 and 5 Ephesians 1:11 1 Corinthians 2:7 2 Thessalonians 2:13 2 Timothy 1:9 Titus 1:2 1 Peter 1:20 The Cross Revelation 13:8 The Lost Revelation 17:8 Almost every one of these verses talk about before the foundation of the WORLD 🌎 so that leaves Free Will Choice out of the situation. 100% CUZ IT'S THE FLESH. ALSO FREE WILL CHOICE IS NOWHERE FOUND IN THE BIBLE AS JESUS SPOKE AGAINST IT IN MATTHEW 7 21 23 AND 2 PETER 2:9 AND 10 FOR THE LOST AND TITUS 1 7 AND 8 FOR THE SAVED. THERE ARE OVER 60 VERSES THAT TALKS ABOUT THE WILL OF GOD INCLUDING THE LORD'S PRAYER MATTHEW 6 9 AND 10 AND MATTHEW 12:50 AND MANY MORE CUZ THAT'S WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT IS TO DO THE WILL OF GOD THE FATHER WHICH IS CALLED OBEDIENCE.
MATTHEW 7 21 23 has nothing to do with free will, it is about false teachings and prophets. In Genesis, man was giving choice and he disobeyed. God could have prevented all this as he is Sovereign and all powerful. Was Adam and Eve elect? Lean not on out own understanding as said in Proverbs.. some early church fathers twisted the gospel and since man is fallible, created all these issues
@@gtobs3181 what Bible are you reading? Read King James version just because you say Lord Lord does not get you in to the kingdom of heaven repeat DOES NOT GET YOU INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, BUT THOSE THAT DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN. SO THAT MEANS 100% TO DO THE WILL OF GOD THE FATHER NOT YOUR OWN FREE WILL CHOICE IN THE FLESH. Spoken by Jesus in red letters I'm sorry my friend but you're going to have a sad day on your judgment day when you're cast into a lake of fire for ETERNITY. 😭🥵🔥👿
@@gtobs3181 you say that man was giving choice in Genesis because you don't know the scriptures but the Bible says in Genesis 2:17 do not eat of the tree I command you not to eat of, FOR THE DAY THAT YOU EAT THEREOF YOU ARE GOING TO DIE. God Almighty spoke it into existence because it was in his plan so Jesus could make it to the cross and we could be like God knowing Good and evil Genesis 3:22 BEHOLD, MAN HAS BECOME AS ONE OF US, TO KNOW GOOD AND EVIL, ROMANS 8:29 JESUS IS THE FIRSTBORN AMONG MANY BROTHERS AND SISTERS. THAT KNOWS GOOD AND EVIL AND HAS CROWNS TO LAY AT THE FEET A JESUS. Theraree 5 Crowns 👑 to earn which is located in 1st Corinthians 3:11-15 The Crown 👑 of Life --- James 1:12 and Revelation 2:10 The Crown 👑 of Rejoicing --- 1 Thessalonians 2:19 The Crown 👑 of Righteousness --- 2 Timothy 4:8 The Crown 👑 of Glory --- 1 Peter 5:4 The Incorruptible Crown 👑 --- 1 Corinthians 9:25 Gbu Jeff ✝️
You can’t lose your salvation. Calvinism is correct on that. We’re also depraved in sin but we can respond to the gospel. Jesus made many people well because of their faith. He even left His home town doing a few miracles because they wouldn’t believe. Free will is real and God reacts to our decisions
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Neither Calvinism nor Armenianism is completely correct
So then what is true
@Miguel Cisneros I know what Molinism is and it's not based on biblical truths but of supposed distinct different kind of knowledge that God has. If one understands the doctrines of grace one would see that God's sovereignty and mankind's freedom are not in opposition to each other but are both true. One misconception of sovereignty is that it negates the free will of man but the bible is clear that it doesn't.
Exactly
@Miguel Cisneros there are scholars on all sides so follow the scriptures.
@Miguel Cisneros Arminius himself was a Molinist.
To quote Hank Hannegraf, “In the essentials unity. In the non-essentials liberty, and in all things humility.”
kazamareen kurios That’s actually a quote from Phillip Melancton.
@@kjb1547 Oops! Thanks for the correction!
@@kjb1547 I read where a church historian traced it back to RUPERTUS MELDENIUS. Hey...it matters not :) When I come across some curious quote, putting in quotations is sufficient enough IMO to attribute it to s/one else. Or I might say, "Someone once said...". Cheers
I love this. Thank you for sharing.
How original of Hank Hannegraf the Bible answer man who rejected the Bible in favor of tradition and became eastern orthodox.
This is a topic that comes up a lot, and while I've personally studied the Bible and especially apologetics, I've always felt on the outside of this argument because I never fully understood it. Thank you for this primer. I'd like to watch it a few more times to wrap my head around it and see what The Holy Spirit puts in my heart about this.
I recommend Soteriology 101 youtube channel for more in depth analysis.
ua-cam.com/video/6eZIYG7nikY/v-deo.html
I love that ending statement you made. As a person who has been interested in science, particularly physics for my entire life, when I was saved, and read the Bible, the descriptions of God sounded alot like what physicists say interaction with a higher dimension we can't perceive would be. Basically, modern physics, describes space in 4 dimensions, time being the 4th. This is another direction, that we can't even comprehend, and can only experience snapshots as we pass through life. Basically, what i instantly thought when reading about God's omnipotence, omnipresence, and how God could know all things and there still be free will, is that having created the universe, God is above everything. He is able to interact with the 3rd dimension, yet see fully the 4th dimension, meaning when he looks at a person, he would see their entire life all at once. So when he created the world, it was the same way, all of what would happen on the earth, in God's eyes, was part of the earth when he made it. I still struggle to understand it, and I probably never will completely, but I would urge people to look at physics a bit, because the math of the universe seems to describe things and phenomenon that are very similar to the description of God in the Bible. God created everything, and knows the future, and at the same time, he gave us free will. Just because we cant comprehend that, doesn't mean it isn't true. God is not limited to the constraints of the human mind.
Well said!
I totally agree, we just can't simply understand what God knows. We get it wrong all the time when we put God on our level of understanding.
Let me call you a scientist with an open mind - and I appreciate you response.
I revert to the term, "paradox," when considering the workings of a Transcendent God. This video discusses a paradox: that God is absolutely Sovereign and can run this business of His as He chooses and can foreordain what He wills; yet, He gave humans free will and we are accountable for the choices we make. As I've pondered this over the years, it seems impossible. Yet, from childhood, I've been taught that with God, all things are possible.
I follow Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson, astrophysicist and current science rock star. As best I can tell, he is agnostic - not denying the existence of a Higher Power, but certainly mystified by how that Power chooses to manage things. One question he asks is, "How can God be All-powerful and All-good, yet allow the widespread suffering we see in this World?" Apart from wars and Man's greed why the natural disasters that occur - beyond Man's control?
I don't have a pat response to such questions - and I certainly believe I worship a loving God who cares about every soul on this planet. I don't think we're supposed to comprehend everything He does and everything He allows this side of glory.
And I heard that in your response. I'm amazed when any scientist humbles himself and accepts that there is a God in Heaven. In our age we demand logic, reason, explanations that can be measured and readily grasped. And our God is a God of reason: as if astrophysics and neuroscience are beyond the Creator of the Universe and the Sovereign of all time.
I'll stop here. Just wanted you to know how encouraging you reply is to me. Thank you!
It’s really troubling to me that Christians get so carried away with Arminianism vs. Calvinism. Instead, can’t we recognize that God is transcendent and can be completely sovereign while giving us absolute freedom to use our wills, exactly like you explained.
God bless you.
because holding to your position of free will contradicts the Bibel. Man is not free from God thats why free will is not biblical , God does whatsoever he wills Romans 9 is very clear on that . If you are not reformed you are against Gods word and you are a heretic simpel as that
We are certainly volitional but I think it's a bit of an over statement to say we have absolute freedom. I don't know about absolute freedom because even God doesn't have absolute freedom. It is impossible for God to lie because it is contrary to his nature to do so just as it is contrary to a man's nature to fly like a bird. It was Luther not Calvin who said the natural man is free when it comes to things below him but not things above him. Man is free to do what he wishes but the Bible says there is none that seek God no not one. I am volitional and I'm free to eat a mud pie but I certainly am never going to do so because I don't wish to. God certainly stands in no one's way who would come to Christ but unfortunately their own nature often does which is why they are culpable. As Charles Spurgeon once said "all glory to God for salvation and all blame to man for damnation"!
The whole issue of God’s sovereignty (Calvinism vs. Arminianism) causes me a lot of mental distress.
Why?
@@Ryan-qh7ed it’s a pretty deep issue of contemplation. In Calvinism it would appear God gives arbitrary commandments with our lacking free will(why command people to do something who lack the ability and free will to do so).
Then otherwise if Everything is made by God, and foreknown by God then how can we have free will at all.
(Either way it ends up as “something we can’t fully understand” in this realm of understanding God)
It’s also worth noting I have never seen in other religion or philosophy a satisfactory model of free will that doesn’t have missing pieces or paradox. Lastly Calvinism takes the cake for intellectual masterbation, like they can’t just use a normal explanation for the common man.....it’s always gotta sound like a dang seminary thesis, I barely finished high school lol
Yeah its Confusing Romans 9 talks about it a lot
no, all Christians believe God is sovereign. that's a calvinist talking point. the issue is determinism
The issues you are having is because you are a heretic if you belive in arminianism thats why i recommend get out from that false system of belif and join the true church of the reformers
I love the video you did with Leighton Flowers about Calvinism, I think Christians don't have to be trapped into this Calvinism vs Arminianism binary mindset
It's a great video
ua-cam.com/video/6eZIYG7nikY/v-deo.html
Leighton is a closet Open Theist
@@toolegittoquit_001 yeah.....and James White and John MacArthur are closet Gnostics
You better believe that Mr Flowers is definitely Arminian. He has made it his whole "ministry" to attack Calvinism not at all balanced. it's OK to be an Arminian or a Calvinist but that shouldn't be your whole preoccupation with Christianity!
Elements of both are correct however both are results of humans making issues where there are none.
pot as Nope that’s false.
pot as Umm what are we talking about? You said the entire European church agrees with Calvinism which is false, and even if it weren’t that doesn’t make it true.
If it's about history, all the early Christian scholar (first five centuries) supported free Will. Dr. Ken Wilson does a good explanation about this topic
pot as The burden of proof lies with you, you made a historically accurate and false claim and I corrected you, and btw the Catholics who made up the majority of Europe certainly weren’t Calvinist.
Juan Luis Montejo Gómez Precisely
I agree with both, God has chosen all to be saved, we then have the free will to accept or refuse. Now aint that simple?
warren Eggleton It is! And it’s correct.
How is our will free. Jesus said he who sins is a slave to it. Sin is hatred toward God therefore our will Hates God. Hense irresistible grace.
ilkin engin
You’re confusing terms. Abraham was called the Friend of God because he trusted and had faith in him. He was not the friend of God because God made him act in a particular way.
Calvinists greatest error is deriving Gospel theology from the book of Romans. Also their obsession with John 6 and not all of Ephesians, but scattered verses from Chapter 1 and 2.
I'm not sure if I would be labeled a "Calvinist" or an "Arminian". All I know is, and I'm happy that this is the current limit of my theological understanding, I believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm a redeemed sinner and I will spend eternity in the heavenly places, with my Father who is LORD. I'm fine not knowing everything in the mind of God written in the scriptures. He will show me that which I'm able to understand in due time.
Calvanists preach the gospel while everyone else argues against calvanists 😆👍
It seems like most evangelical churches in practice are 3-4 points of one and 1-2 points of the other. There's definitely a case to be made for a balanced approach.
This was excellent!!! Thank you 🙏🏽 brother for this video!!! I learned some new things from this video. It was helpful to have a quick history on how these two views came to be!
Youre welcome and thanks for watching.
Great information. I feel there are lots of things to agree with on both sides but mostly I agree with armeniaism because God says it’s his will that no one should perish. Thank you!
I agree mostly with Calvinism because it makes solely God the initiator and perfector of our salvation. However, you made a good argument! That’s a good point. Thank you for the food for thought
@K W, Can you please show us a verse that God says: It's His Will that no one should perish? Thanks...
Joseph Durraz 2 Peter 3:9- The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
I can do all things The key word in that verse is “us-ward” he’s not talking about the whole world but “us” which are the chosen of God. At least that’s what I got out of it.
You should read that text from the beginning of the chapter, so you can get the context of it. And not just isolate it.
I love God because He first loved me. When He asked me for my hand in marriage I would have been a fool to say no. All praise, honor and glory belong to the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world.
I never understood how people believed Calvinism...didn't God create man in "His" Image??? Doesn't man have free will??? (YES) If God "Elects or Chooses" who is and isn't saved then it's not free will, If God chooses you, then you never really had a choice...If "YOU" didn't choose God of your own free will then it's not real. If man as a sinner, hears the gospel and Chooses to give there life to the Lord and "ASKS" for salvation....that is real, that is true.
Man hears but why does he hear? Blank out. Man chooses but why does he choose? Blank out. Man asks but why does he ask? Blank out. If his hearing and his choosing and his asking are his doing independent of God then so is the credit and glory for his salvation. It is all his and his alone by your own logic and I challenge you to prove anything different! Now maybe you should think about that and then consider the alternative!
@@Faith-Ministries The obvious million flaws but for some strange reason you can't point out one in your reply is that right? I love your logical unassailable brilliant highly sophisticated argument. How profound and thoroughly biblical I never thought of that excellent rebuttal "I'm laughing at you"! I never considered such a great comeback. You should be a proud of your theological wisdom!!!
I think it’s very simple God said we were created in his image like God we have free will we have a choice nobody can force us God won’t force us just like Satan can’t force us he can tempt us but he can’t force us you have to make a choice to accept salvation that’s why it’s called “ACCEPT” salvation
God is all knowing, provides a slsvation to whosever will and will not leave us or forsake us, is with us even unto the end of the age......
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
It's really simple. Either faith comes first or regeneration comes first. Either God acts and we respond or We act and god responds. Either God is ultimate or we are. It is one or the other. I know what my Bible teaches.
The Bible teaches Arminianism.
@@puremercury I know the Satanic Bible teaches Arminianism. I hear the first command is due as thou welt
In the Satanic Bible men's will as paramount
The Satanic Bible teaches Arminianism.
I've been getting shadow banned brother but you're right the Bible teaches Calvinism plain and simple.
Who are we created in the image of, God or the devil? Who is totally depraved God or the devil? Calvin had 56 dissenters executed in Geneva because they rejected his heresies. What more needs to be said?
This is not about Calvin. You better be careful sir you're treading on dangerous ground. Yes man was created in God's image but he fell, have you ever heard of original sin? If you teach that man's nature was unchanged and the image of God was not marred in him through sin you're denying a cardinal doctrine of Christianity that has been believed by all orthodox Christians everywhere always!
I was drawn to the 5" explanation promise you made; and you delivered. I was searching for a confirmation that Calvinists believe in the once-saved-always-saved heresy because it has been said that the suddenly popular Voddie Baucham is a Calvinist. I was really impressed with his preaching and, therefore, I wanted a refresher course on what Calvin's is. So I appreciate your video. I don't believe in the TULIP theology; so I suppose that my beliefs would be considered Arminianist, at least, for the most part anyway.
Could God roll a dice that he doesn't know the outcome to it if he thought about it really hard? If no, Calvinism
Could God roll a dice that he wouldn't know the outcome to it if he didn't think about it really hard? If no, definitely Calvinism
If yes, could we be like the dice, and can free will exist without foreknowledge, or with hidden foreknowledge?
Could God roll a dice and give the dice its own choice how to land? Is God creative enough to create a spirit in the dice so free that he himself would be surprised at what the dice landed on? What if God wanted it this way? Could he do it? If Yes to these, definitely Arminianism or even partly Open Theistic
Would God be responsible for the outcome of the dice? In what way?
If God knew in hindsight that u were about to trip on a banana peel that doesn't mean he put the peel in front of you or directed your foot to the banana peel. So NO to calvinism.
There’s nothing about Arminianism that suggests God isn’t sovereign or doesn’t know everything. Him knowing everything doesn’t change the fact that we have the free will to choose even if he knows what we will choose. Just because I know it’s going to rain tomorrow doesn’t mean I’m causing it to rain.
I know you can't do justice to this controversy in five minutes - but I applaud you for this effort and for challenging us to go deeper.
Since high school, my grasp of Calvinism disturbed me because I could not see the God I worshipped ordaining that some would be saved despite their depravity and others would be lost despite their efforts to respond to Him. I know we're not saved by our works - it's God's grace; however, the Word tells us faith without works is dead - and we cannot claim to be His without striving to do His works - what He asks us to do.
I don't believe John Calvin would embrace Calvinism as it has come to us today.
Now, Arminianism is a term I've likened to Gnosticism so far as my understanding that it approaches heresy. Actually, this video has helped me get a better grasp of the views of Arminius - and though I a more in line with the assertion of free will and Christ's sacrifice for all, I would not think of being a disciple of Arminius. I am a disciple of Jesus Christ and I look to the Holy Spirit to guide me to what is true and complete doctrine. It's been some journey.
I do not intend to be critical of your short format. You whet the appetite in this microwave age of short attention spans and lust for instant gratification. Thank you!
Best part of the video for me was the drop of grace part at 2:16
Calvinism has a way of making humans seem even worse than they already are by removing *all* good from them to begin with (wait, how are babies going to heaven then?), making them more like beasts of nature than image bearers of God
Just because you are created with heavy flaws and a sin nature, doesn't necessarily mean you are as bad as (or worse than) the demons
No where I can find that in the Bible at least
““They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt; There is no one who does good, not even one.”
Psalms 14:3 NASB
Quoted again by Paul in Romans. Yes, total depravity is biblical. This is literally the only point that both Calvinists and Arminians agree on.
Yes Babies are totally depraved too. They go to Heaven the same way any of the rest us do; by God’s Grace alone.
@@TheJewStar the definition of good there is "moral excellence"
Obviously both sides agree that no one is morally excellent like Jesus
However some people are better than others, read Matthew 11:11
If everyone is "totally deprived" how does that happen?
Eric Smyth When searching Scriptures, did you find words like “predestined” “chosen” “foreknew” “you did not chose me but I chose you” “holy calling” “foreknowledge” “many are called but few are chosen” and the list goes on...
It is a terrible mistake (and one that I’ve made) to bring our own theology and preconceived human notions to Scripture to make it say what we want it to say.
Why would God chose some to be saved and others to be lost? The real question should be l: “Why would he chose to save anybody?
@Eric Smyth, ''(wait, how are babies going to heaven then?)'' Easy for the Calvinist to answer: If they are one of the elect since the foundation of the world they will surely go to heaven... If NOT, then they will be damned to hell...
@@EricSmyth2Christ, Basically Calvinism is a very Beautiful Biblical doctrine about 'Election and Predestination', about the 'L' which is Limited Atonement... and about 'P' which means Preservation of the saints, or OSAS...=>>> However John Calvin did not understand the entirety of the Biblical 'Election and Predestination', So he added his own understanding without Scriptural Support and some are even Contradictory to the Scriptures that makes his doctrine false and therefore evil..... =>>>>> John Calvin and all his followers do not know that the Elect(Sheep) are the True Children of God by heredity.... and the reprobates(goats) are the children of the devil by heredity also... Had God reveal this to him, Calvinism is the most Beautiful and Powerful doctrine now existing aside from the Bible Itself.....
Romans 8:28-30
[28] And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. [29] For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. [30] And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
After looking at Calvinism, I would think that John Calvin's father, was not only his father but also his older brother. 🙃
Yes to understand Christianity you must embrace paradox and live in that tension.
Friedrich Beuchner said something like it is possible for a 2 yr old to have complete freedom to do something and at the same time for the parent to know the kid so well he already knows what he will choose
Obviously God knows the future any other view is the open theism heresy.
I believe this 100% free will AND 100% sovereignty
With man this is impossible but with God all things are possible!
Man always grinds against that God is God and does all He pleases. I do like your presentation it is good for the tool box.
Jesus also said when we believe on Him we immediately have eternal life. So I definitely believe in eternal security. But irresistible grace is unbiblical and so is unconditional election.
Pk Amponn No you don’t have to be Calvinist to believe in eternal security
Pk Amponn Losing your salvation isn’t biblical. Jesus said we enter eternal life when we believe on Him which debunks the idea that we can lose our salvation
Pk Amponn It explains itself... better to have your body maimed than to go to Hell
Pk Amponn Matthew 5:29 doesn’t say that. You’re twisting Scripture, with all due respect
@Pk Amponn what happens if you are saved. You are driving down the road and a truck hits you head on. Right before you die, you swear(sin). Are you then going to hell? I would argue no, as I am a non-Calvinist. What about the folks jumping to their death on 9-11 in the towers to avoid burning to death. Are they damned to hell? Problem with the doctrine that teaches one can lose their salvation is noone has been able to explain Biblically or intelligently to me which sin causes one to lose salvation. Since the Bible teaches correctly sin is sin, I would argue once saved is always saved. Unrepentant sin is an example of someone who was never saved to begin with IMHO. Gods grace is bigger than any man's actions. Christ going to the cross eliminated the need to be saved over and over again. I believe losing your salvation and needing to be saved again and again is kin to demanding Jesus die over and over. Just my understanding of scripture. God bless.
Would love to meet John the Baptist. I’d probably answer to the concert (before) as Jo Stafford or Ella Fitzgerald. But now, I agree to another comment, David harping and singing psalms. Not to mention hearing angels worshipping. 😍 A big, fat YES, Yahushua as Master and Messiah! 🥰🙏🏼💕✝️
I would rather believe in Calvinism which means PRE destination and is biblical like it says in Ephesians 1:4-5 & 1:11 Romans 8:29 30 rather than what people call Free Will choice that is not biblical in fact Jesus spoke against Free Will choice in Matthew 7:21-23 and 2nd Peter 2:9-10 and Titus 1:7-8. Those that do their own fleshly will are going to BURN 🔥 in HELL for ETERNITY. Read the SCRIPTURES and see what Jesus said.
When anyone asks me do you believe in free will or predestination? I simply say “yes”
what kind of response is that?
Very informative indeed. Thanks a lot for sharing... God Bless
I do agree with your last sentence.... God is sooo great.... big enough ....to...
If we stand before a huge cube... we only see "a square" we completely ignore that in reality it is a huge cube! And why do we do that? Because we are so small...
I believe that God is sovereign, yet, (because he is love) gave us the free will to choose....
Let God be God and because of what we know of his heart revealed through the cross.... Let's love and serve him ❤️😊
Amen, thanks for watching
Dear Dr. Kyle Bailey I do thank you!!
May God bless you and help you to continue to share the truth in an intelligent understandable way, help us to think...thank you!
Hi Therese. Its interesting we both use the "cube" as an illustration to illustrate the "bigness" of our God. We humans are but a very very tiny dot in front of a very huge cube. God in His sovereignty made a way so He presented Himself to humans through the 3 distinct persons, Father Son and the Holy Spirit which we called Trinity. Trinity to me is like the 3 faces of that cube, the front view, side view and top view and yes despite these views, that tiny dot would still not be able to comprehend the totality of that cube. The same is with this issue of God's sovereignty and the free will of man which are both declared in the bible.
Philosophy called such as ANTINOMY. These two truths from the bible seem to be contradicting each other but both are truths declared by our God which we cannot fully comprehend. As someone said, "antinomy is the result of a finite being trying to grasp the infinite, and failing."
Hi Roger 😊 I always get deeply moved at "the wonder of the triune God, "one being - revealed in three persons"!
🤔 But, I see, I will have to correct my first message, apparently it's not clear what I meant...
I did not use the picture of the cube to illustrate God, (this makes me feel uneasy) juste used this picture to illustrate our limitations!
When we stand bevor a huge cube, we juste see a square... but in reality there is a cube! Do you see the difference...
Me too, I did wrestle with the issue of the sovereignty of God and the free will. Was first more influenced by Arm. and then was taught Calvn. Calvinism really helped me to better grasp the depth of Gods grace.
But, it seems to me, we should neither teach A nor C but the risen Christ! Who saves WHOEVER believes in him (Rom.1.16)! Hallelujah 🌟
The more I come to see (by Gods grace 😊) the beauty, mercy, kindness of God, his overwhelming grace, came to understand that "God is LOVE "... this question lost its sting, just learned to bow before God and submit/accept that the bible teaches both, for us it is, as you say an "Antinomy", but... who are we...
One day we shall see how this works out ... today it belongs to the list "of Gods secrets".
May God bless you!
@@theresepfister139 /// But, I see, I will have to correct my first message, apparently it's not clear what I meant...
I did not use the picture of the cube to illustrate God, (this makes me feel uneasy) juste used this picture to illustrate our limitations!///
haha, dont worry. I am sure we mean the same and I fully understand what you mean. I guess my explanation is the one that fall short in illustrating our limitation. To me, that "cube illustration" is the simple illustration I used to use in explaining the vastness, the infiniteness of God to us finite beings. Remember, we can never illustrate nor explain God in His totality. You are right in saying, "we are using that cube picture to illustrate our limitations".
I used to be a DRAFTSMAN doing mechanical drawings of machine parts before and one day while meditating the word of God, that illustration dawned on me. When drawing a machine part, you are to show its front view, side view top view and then the isometric view (a view or angle that shows all those 3 views) so that the fabricator has a clear picture of that part. Then it dawned on me, God, like a cube, revealed Himself as a Triune Being and like those three views, God the Father is the front view, God the Son the side view and God the Holy Spirit the top view. Then again I wonder, why despite God revealing Himself as 3 distinct person yet we can't fully comprehend Him? Then it dawned on me, like a very tiny ant in front of that huge cube, even if it moves backward and at a distance see the side of it and its top, yet that ant still has a very limited view and understanding of that cube.
With regards to your comment, views and conviction about Gods sovereignty and freewill of man you posted above, I can say we are one in those convictions. God bless you too !!
I had read that John and Abigail Adams were of the Armenian faith and they didn't believe in a Messiah for their atonement. They believed God would judge them "alone" for their actions.
What the hell are you talking about?
There was Man before the Bible and the Calvinism vs Arminianism theory.
On the Internet, I’ve seen many boasted that they’re a Calvinist but I have yet to see an Arminian say he’s an Arminian. That speaks volumes.
Yeah well guess what, AS Calvinists boast, WE BOAST IN THE LORD, as you arminians are LOST in the SAUCER behind the CROSS, cause Free Will CHOICE is NOT 🚫 biblical. In fact Jesus spoke against it in Matthew 7:21 23
YOU NEED TO READ YOUR BIBLE
Then you are not paying attention, as there is a huge contingent of Arminians online. You seem to be falling victim to the "anyone not a Calvinist is an Arminian but doesn't know it" misunderstanding.
@@joyfuljeff9128Arminianism is much more Biblically supported than Calvinism.
Why would anyone boast about being an Arminian?
@@puremercuryTalk is cheap. Prove it because I've never seen it!
What a great conclusion!
If you could change the position of your prompter or sheets you're reading from so that you look straight into the camera and your audience instead of sideways at them. It's distracting. Just a suggestion...
Brother Kyle, what does reformed Calvinism mean?
Exact definitions can be a little funny, but in broad strokes:
"Calvinism" is typically just the soteriology (how you are saved) of the Reformation as laid out in the Canons of Dort (although sadly, most people just use a pretty shoddy incomplete version summarized by TULIP and ignore the details of what Calvinists mean by it).
"Reformed" is all the doctrines of the Reformation taken together. It includes the soteriology of course, but also includes covenant theology, the nature of God, sacraments, church organization, and a bunch of other stuff, much of which is not very controversial. A Reformed church is confessional, meaning we find what is laid out in the Westminster Confession or the Three Forms of Unity (those being the two most common confessions in use, though there are others) is a good representation of the scripture's teachings.
I'd highly recommend reading the Westminster Confession for a good overview of things we find important; or at least the Canon's of Dort if you want to understand what TULIP is about.
It means get on your knees and receive this holy communion in the form of a turd burger 🍔🍟 mmm you hungry you little sinner ??
I am neither a Calvinist nor Arminian. But I will leave it to God the Father to reconcile both views. As both views are biblical. Do you agree with me ?
I agree with the spirit behind your words and so did Charles Spurgeon though like myself he leaned heavily toward Calvinism.
Thank you. Are you sn Arminian?
Great presentation. Quick and precise
Matt. 1:21 Jesus says: For he shall save HIS people. Didn't say ALL people. Calvinism is the perfect approach to the scripture. Though God is sovereign, we have to do our responsibility and obey His commandments. Arminianism accepts the fact that its okay to God for His people to go away from Him. Professing christians would assume that its ok temporarily God would still be merciful. The scripture even mentioned about people who called Him Lord Lord have we... yet God replied I necer knew you ye workers of iniquity, depart from me!
Arminianism is the Biblically supported position.
1 Timothy 2:3-4 - “This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
In the last 30 seconds he revealed his twisted theology by stating, "these two can be reconciled at the same time." He is totally wrong and thoroughly confused. God is sovereign in salvation. Free-will is heresy from hell. Sola Scriptura!
Predestination means God knew he would call you to become a Christian before you were born that's all , and you do not have to take your calling . People not called are not being judged for salvation they will get their chance when resurrected .
The Glory of Jesus on the cross once seen explains not only salvation but reveals to the individual that sees it how to ask for salvation and reveals all of the hidden things of G-D in His words and Jesus's words. Also once seen reveals your real choices which is not to get saved but whether to ask or not ask for salvation.
My friend Romans 1st and 2nd Corinthians Galatians Ephesians Phillipians Colosians 1st and 2ndThessalonians 1 and 2nd Thimothy Titus Philimon
First C1/2vinist I have seen in a while
Do you have a video on Molinism?
calvinism sounds wrong to me every time I hear it.
So what ?
1) Calvin certainly didn't set out to have a particular Soteriology named after him. 2) When it comes to Divine sovereignty and human free will it could as well be called Lutheranism. 3) What you're calling Calvinism was the view of nearly every one of the reformers and protestants in general until the time of John Wesley so why does Calvin get all the blame or credit depending on your view?
@@kevincarney1984 It's possible this is the authentic interpretation of the bible. It sounds bad because it makes God sound evil, but now that I've left Christianity, that would explain why. So it all checks out now.
Let God be true and every man a liar that you might be justified in your sayings and that you might overcome when you are Judged Romans 3:4
The point of view from the giver and the point of view from the receiver, truth in context. The Holy Spirit will lead you to the truth as Gods ways are higher than our ways. Everything is predetermined in hindsight.
In an attempt to give God all the credit for everything always, Calvinists have denied Him credit of giving them the most creative gift of all
Eric Smyth They overstep as well giving God credit for evil in all.
@@justchilling704 is God not sovreign over evil? If not, there's something he has no use for.
Is Wesleyan and Arminianism one in the same?
Wesley was an Arminian so in a way yes.
You got the book title wrong. It’s The Institutes of The Calvin Religion.
If that's your perspective then every systematic theology should be rejected as a private interpretation.
@@kevincarney1984 I think it is rather bold for a person to title his book, “The Institutes of The Christian Religion”. This is going a bit too far.
And you are correct in saying that it is his private interpretation. We can except all or part of it. I really don’t even feel the need to read it.
I thought this was alright, but the biggest issue I have is framing it in terms of one side being about God's sovereignty and the other about man's free will. In reality, both positions say man has a free will and that God is sovereign; they disagree on the extent and implications of that.
Obviously (trigger warning), Calvinism provides the more Biblical answer and correctly frames their relationship. But we shouldn't think that just because we don't like the Reformed theory of free will or our preferred theory is different then therefore the Reformed theory doesn't exist.
Westminster Confession chapter 9 is a good overview for the Reformed position.
So you believe that God has ordained from eternity, all things whatsoever come to pass?
How can there be any free will in that?
@@evanu6579 God establishes man's free will and the liberty and contingency of second causes by what he ordains.
@@oracleoftroy Secondary causes don't exist the moment you know everything prior to the act of creating it. You can believe it if you want, but its logically contradictory.
@@justindavis2711 How so? Let's get concrete: I don't get why you think God can't make gravity if he knows everything, including the future positions of all masses affected by gravity.
@@oracleoftroy
Im not arguing that God cannot create gravity. I'm arguing that if God knew with 100% certainty the end result of all future positions of masses affected by gravity, then it goes without saying that the end result was already set in stone prior to the act of creation. The concept of secondary causes states that certain things can evolve independantly of the primary act. But if God knows with 100% certainty, the outcome prior to creating it, then they cannot evolve independantly. They were fixed from the beginning. This is what I mean when i say that secondary causes stop existing the moment you know everything prior to the act of creating it. You become the primary cause the moment you know with 100% certainty what the outcome will be, because this eliminates the possibility of independent evolution of the creation.
If God designed all laws governing the principals and effects of our choices, and knew what our choices would be with 100% certainty before creating the universe, then it logically follows that all of existence was a blueprint within the mind of God prior to the act of creation. This eliminates free will, because free will only exists if we have possible options. And certainty is the opposite of possibility.
Calvinism or the Doctrines of Sovereign Grace is more rooted in Scripture than Arminianism/ Semipelagianism which is rooted in assumptions and emotions. God ways are so much higher than our ways...
I believe on "man's free will" & "God's sovereignty". I am Armenian & Calvinist.
Well except on the Calvinist chocking point == "Christ died only for the elect".
Pick-up the good & spit-out the bad.
Above all :To live is Christ & to die is gain(Phil.1:21).
Christ died for whom the father has given him. We know that it is not all people. The Bible also says that God's desire is for all to be saved, but this is not his will. People mix up will and desire and when we do we lose context. You see God had a plan from the beginning to save his chosen.
@@ThineBean God is perfect though so wouldn’t His will align with His desire??
@@sophiagauthier8552 Hey, youtube wouldn't let me reply to you for some reason. I wrote the reply in the general comments. (hopefully this goes through)
@@sophiagauthier8552 Hopefully this goes through. No, God's will and his desires are two separate entities.
I feel like we try too hard to equate God's mind and His wisdom to our own... He is ALL wise, ALL knowing, and ALL powerful. We cant understand bc our ways of thinking are nowhere near the level of God's. God is so powerful and so soveirgn that we have complete free will to choose, but God is so wise and all knowing that it doesnt matter which path we choose, He still already knows what the outcomes with be under every single circumstance... No matter which way we go. He is so in control over it all, that it does not matter what we do, He still knows the outcome. This true and loving form of control is not something that we can understand or wrap our pea brains around..
You are actually in control of your actions. God gave every single individual the option to choose or reject His free gift of salvation. Jeremiah 32:35 "they set up their vile images in the house that bears my name and defiled it. 35 they built high places for Baal in the valley of ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded-nor did it enter my mind-that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin." God did not command these people 2 sacrifice their sons and daughters for Baal. These people did it anyway. We call that free will. An Omnibenevolent, Omniscient, and Omnipotent God I serve could have avoided this if he wanted 2. He didn’t. God bless you.
Thank you for the information. SDA are Arminianism.
Well,,, in my humble opinion I don't really care about the debate. The Word says that God knew you before he laid the foundations of the earth. Jesus also said, no one comes to the Father except through me and no one comes to me unless my Father calls them. So, if God knew who would be saved before the earth was even created and who would be cast into the lake of fire. Then it would seem He chose you long before you chose Him. That seems like pre-election to me. Like God said to Job, Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? So,,, who are we to try and know the Father's mind? His ways are higher than ours. His wisdom and knowledge are greater than ours.
As a Calvinist, I don’t think this is a good examination of the two sides. A few statements you said seemed to grossly misrepresent the views of myself and the many Calvinist preachers I regularly listen to, and the many Calvinists I’ve seen or know personally. I could definitely sense a strong Arminian leaning, with a kind of attempt to remain unbiased. And really, Scripture does provide the answers to Calvinism vs. Arminianism. And I can say with full conviction that Calvinism is not just supported by Scripture, but is overwhelmingly supported by Scripture. There should be no debate on it at all. It’s ok to take a stance. You don’t have to pretend to be unbiased, and if you try to be unbiased, at least come out and state it up front so that any potential biases can be weighed by the viewers, some of whom are not very educated on this topic. And you seemed to pit God’s election and predestination against God’s love, which is not true in the slightest. God loves the world in general, but he loves his own glory even more (actually, the most). Everything he does is for his glory and the good of the elect, who love God. And your image of God electing people being likened to dragging them kicking and screaming into heaven made no sense 😂 Heaven is objectively the best place for a man to be, and Hell is objectively the worst. That’s like saying that rescuing a child who doesn’t want to leave a burning home a bad thing because he didn’t want to be rescued. Which is loving: to save the child even though he doesn’t want to be rescued, or to leave him there because of his “free will?” The thing is, God in his mercy saved totally depraved sinners who would NEVER choose God (Paul quoted from the Psalms in Romans to show that all were under sin, and that no one is good, and no one seeks after God). So the only people God can save are those who aren’t seeking for him (initially). You can see how the arguments for Calvinism were very weak or lacking in this video. You should instead host a debate between a popular Calvinist and popular Arminian. That would more accurately represent the two sides I believe.
It would be terrifying to think that the universe was created by the Calvinist God. The Calvinist God is the Talmudic bean counter God who keeps a cosmic ledger that records every infraction you commit as an infinite debt you can never repay. Calvinism sells us the idea that every human who is born into this world has imputed guilt from Adam. You are guilty the day they are born. You are deserving of wrath and the eternal torments of hell from the day you are conceived. The justice of God in Calvinism is based on Augustine's doctrine of original sin. That doctrine teaches that you were in Adam and you are culpable for Adams sin before ever making a willful choice of your own. So Calvinism teaches that you bear the guilt for someone else's sin, an act that occurred thousands of years ago by a man who is your ancient grandfather. So justice in the Calvinistic scheme is not based on any notion of human justice. God's justice in Calvinism is based on holding you under guilt for someone's sin committed thousands of years ago. You can't even find a 3rd world country that has such a screwed up philosophy of justice. Because no one would consider that to be a rational system of equity at any level. If people would read history they would know that many church fathers opposed Augustine's doctrine of Original sin. Because Augustine invented a new idea that no one had ever taught. The well-established doctrine of ancestral sin taught that we are "NOT" guilty of Adams sin, but we bear the consequences of Adams sin. Death (Mortality), Sin, and bondage to Satan's power. The Reformation has many problems because the Protestant Reformers followed Augustine. The Reformers did not start their movement on the principle that Christianity was based on the common and universal teachings of the historical church. Christianity is not based on the teachings of one man.
Just think how much difference it makes to say that we are not guilty of Adam's sin. Every doctrine in Calvinism is based on the foundation that you are guilty of Adams sin. Rejecting this one doctrine as false means that the whole skyscraper of Calvinism crumbles. Because Augustine was wrong.
The doctrine of total depravity in Calvinism is predicated on one original sin that destroys human NATURE thus destroying the human will itself. That is why in Calvinism man's NATURE is totally evil. Calvinism is Manicheanism. Once you accept the Calvinistic/Augustinian presuppositions you get many other false beliefs. Because one heresy just produces more heresies. A good place to start would be Jay Dyer's video "Protestantism and Evangelicalism Refuted" on UA-cam. Stay away from Calvinism. It is toxic to your soul.
@@randychurchill201 do you believe man is inherently good?
@@SShandlerwaffen I believe that all men were made to be good. To the extent that we do good, we image God. And to the extent, that we do things that are against our nature we lose our humanity. We become, unlike God. All men do good and evil. Because of the fall, all men suffer the consequence of Adam's sin. Death and corruption. Corruption in the sense of human nature is now subject to death. Our mortal flesh is now weak and subject to inordinate passions. We engage in blameless passions such as eating. And we can engage in blameful passions due to the weakness of our flesh. Grace is both in the church and in the world. That is why an atheist can do good work. So your question is answered by saying that man is both good and by his willful actions can choose to move away from the good. God made all men to be good by nature. Evil does not exist until we chose to move away from good.
Please just list the actual scripture references that you speak of for Calvinism or should I say your version of Calvinism. All this talk and chatter without the actual scriptural references is useless. Thank you.
@@Totem360 You're asking me a very wide general question. What specifically are you referring to? I was deformed for 23 years, living near Westminster Seminary in Southern California. Went to a Presbyterian Church for 23 years. Westminster Confession of Faith, 5 point Calvinist, Covenant Theology etc etc. I'm not giving you my version. It's exactly what Calvinism teaches. In fact, it is worse. I'm just being nice.
5 point Armenian here !
You're deluding yourself if you say we can believe both perspectives.
It depends on the Extreme you take them to. You certainly can't be a hyper Calvinist and a hyper Arminian at the same time. Even Calvin said that there are some truths of God we must apprehend that perhaps we cannot comprehend. In other words we accept them by faith. According to Deuteronomy 29:29 the secret things belong to God.
I follow Jesus Christ, only Jesus Christ. That’s all because He is the way, the truth and the life.
Instead of debating Calvin / Arminius re: Biblical salvation, please trust Gods word; inspired by the Holy Spirit and profitable for teaching, reproof, correction, training [2 Tim 3 v16] and literally says: *He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world* that we would be *holy and blameless* before Him. *He predestined* us to adoption as sons *through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will* [Eph 1 v4-5]. There are many just like it. God said: *avoid foolish controversies* regarding the law that lead to endless discussions/strife [Titus 3 v9; 1 Tim 6 v20; 2 Tim 2 v16]. *Share the gospel* instead!
So basically what you are saying is that God chose to predestine people to suffer eternal conscious torment from the beginning of time?
You should start a site that explains physics in five minutes that would be just as ridiculous!
I reject both Calvinism and Arminianism both WICKED man-centered teachings. I DON'T HAVE TO BE EITHER ONE OF THESE. You will NOT find the names John Calvin or Jacobus Arminius in my KJV Bible.
Thanks👍🏻
Is evil God's making or is evil out of His sovereignty? Both propositions are disturbing but I'm at peace with saying there's mystery and God is totally sovereign.
Ryungun Rie Hello Ryungun. Hope you are well. God can never do anything evil The Bible says in James 1:13 let no one say when he is tempted, “ I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.” Satan who is evil itself wants us to think God is creating evil things that happen to us so we will be mad at him instead of looking to Him for help. Have a blessed day! KW
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isa 45:7
@Rocky Severino. Hello Rocky. Thank you for your response. You are right! Isaiah does say that and in the translations I looked up it calls evil-calamities. Since I am not a bible scholar, I had to research to be able to reply. I got some interesting points from GotQuestions.org and BibleTools.org. They both explain how God does not create moral evil-you know sin and wickedness, but does create at times, judgements and calamities on those who rebel-unrepentantly-against Him and His word and his ways. They said this is not making evil but bringing or allowing calamities or hardship or even using evil through people to turn people around from hard hearted rebellion against him and his Lordship.
Rocky Severino. I sent message to early. Just wanted to add that as I’m sure you believe that God is utterly good kind and loving and finish with Jeremiah 29:11 where God says “I know the plans that I have for you, plans of good and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.” God bless you. KW
KW
@@rockyseverino9230 a direct and a biblical answer. Let's see what they do with it let's see if they have ears to hear. Grace and peace to you.
John chapter 6 Jesus said to Peter you did not choose me I chose you that's God's unconditional election and total depravity ,... man was unable to choose god without God first loving him and revealing himself to him. 2nd . ...John 3 ,Jesus to Nicodemus explaining the holy spirit's sovereignty in election in our Salvation the spirit goes wherever he Wills. That s just two points of Calvinism. Calvinism is not actually anything other than biblical truth. you can study all five points of Calvinism and see that it's biblical but the sound bite types of teachings are not enough to understand what true biblical truth is regarding the acronym tulip please study this in more depth than this 5 minute site has provided God bless you all. Study to show thyself approved unto God a Workman that needeth not to be ashamed rightly dividing the word of Truth 2nd Timothy 2:15. Jesus Christ said in John 6 no one can come to me unless the father draw him first but all that come to me I will in no wise cast out. God does the electing and man's responsibility is to respond to God and this is a mystery but both are true.
Jeff Hughes
Calvinism is not biblical truth. It’s someone’s interpretation of what they figure is true. That’s they they call it Calvinism.
No one ever became a Calvinist from reading scripture alone. You must be taught to be a Calvinist from another Calvinist. It is a religion for those who still want to hold to some sort of intellectual superiority and still be labeled a Christian. One teaching of biblical truth that destroys the 5 points of Calvinism is the fact that you can lose your salvation. According to scripture you can, according to Calvin you can’t.
@@jesuschristsaves9067 explain to me Romans chapter 8 where Paul says for I am persuaded that neither death nor life nor angels nor principalities nor things present nor things to come nor anything else in all creation shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our lord. Then explain to me Jude...., for he is able to present you faultless before the Throne of his glory with great joy. Then explain to me John 10. 27and28 and following ....I know my sheep said Lord Jesus Christ and my sheep hear my voice and follow me I lose none of my sheep furthermore my father who gave my sheep to Me loses none of my sheep..., I and the father are one. explain to me for Philippines 1:6 where Paul declares ..., being confident of this very thing, he who has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. Don't talk in circles. answer my questions about these passages which do unequivocally declare the security of the believer and that is impossible to lose your salvation,.... According To Jesus Christ ...,according to the father according to the Apostle Paul and according to all other teachers in the scriptures ...,prophets and apostles and every holy prophet of God.
@@jesuschristsaves9067 Calvinism did NOT start with Calvin...it's also known as Pauline-Augustinianism as both St. Paul taught and later St. Augustine held to these core beliefs.
To sum it up:
Calvinism: You were predetermined to believe in Arminianism
Arminianism: You have the the free will to believe in Calvinism
To be honest, I thought that this video framing the debate as God's sovereignty verses free will was the weakest part. Calvinism has a doctrine of man's free will; it shouldn't be glossed over. Check out Westminster Confession chapter 9 for an overview.
ofcourse Christians can lose their salvation, The New Testament is full of warnings. John 10 should not be taken in such a way that we cannot fall. Such doctrine leads to a worldly Christian, one who feeds his flesh
Excuse me would you expect no warnings? The purpose of warnings is to keep people on the right track they are a means of avoiding something. That can't be used as proof that believers can lose their salvation. Such doctrine as yours leads to insecurity inward focus and a failure to spread the good news of God's free grace out of fear that someone might catch the disease of sin and lose their salvation!
Last point is key.
Awesome content...I know that I know not
Pastor is burning midnight oil. It's 11:30 on his clock. Lol
That's light coming through his curtains. 11:30am.
Thanks Kyle! I appreciate the redirection to Jesus’ words, since obviously he has the final say in matters of salvation!
God is all knowing. He knew ahead of time (literally) who would accept Him and reject Him. Therefore proving Calvinism to be the correct theology.
Knowing the outcome and choosing the outcome are two different things. Calvinism is God cgoosing the outcome, not knowing what it will be
@@just.browsing that's false, in Calvinism when God chooses an outcome it comes true 100 percent of the time, hence irresistible grace. In armeniesm however they believe that God looks down the tunnel of time and allows them to choose not knowing what they will do. Saying that means God has to learn and if God has to learn then he isn't truly God. The God of the Bible is All Knowing.
@@ThineBean If God knows in hindsight that you're about to trip on a banana peel does not mean he put the peel in front of you nor directed ur foot to the banana peel. So NO to calvinism.
Scripture seems to tell stories of people who choose God or Reject him as well as people who are chosen by God and intentionally left out of salvation by God.
Calvanism is basically God coding RTS videogame and then playing it by himself - except the A.I in the game are fully conscious, and he coded it so that most of them (including babies) end up being tortured for trillions and trillions of years, without end, as a consequence for correctly following his direct design. Also, it claims God is loving, despite being infinitely worse than Hitler and Satan combined 😁
The funniest thing is, Calvanists tend to apply a moral imperative to believe the calvanist doctrine, despite the fact that the doctrine claims that every unbeliever is only an unbeliever because God wills them to be one.
Is God more evil than Hitler and Satan because people deserve salvation and God is depriving them of it?
Too much latent flowers and Soteriology 101
This is just the more pretentious, "grown-up" version of asking "Can Superman beat up Goku?"
Arguing about exactly which magical traits a character in a book (who is an invisible, undetectable, unfalsifiable being with unlimited, blank-cheque magical powers) has, is just bizarre. Even if we ignore the fact that magic isn't real, and assume that a god DOES exist, exactly how are any of these people getting this knowledge about what specific traits this god has?
To argue EITHER side of this issue, is to assume that you're omnipotent, and have the power to "know" the unknowable. If they're not knowingy lying to their readers, then (more likely) they're lying to themselves.
If ANY of this stuff could be shown to be true, there wouldn't be 4,000 contradictory religions on earth, all bickering about their unsupported, occult stories of magical acts- In fact, we'd have no use for ideas like "religion" or "faith", at all; All this stuff about god's traits would just be "science" or "history", or just "how things are", like anything else that actually exists in the real world.
There's never been a religion demanding belief in "air", or preaching that water freezes at 0 degrees c... Because you don't need "religion" or "faith" to compel belief in things that ARE true, and DO have reasonable evidence... You only need religion/faith, for claims that DON'T have reasonable basis for belief.
So why are you demanding belief in an absence of a God?
People are asking the wrong question. The question shouldn't be whether Calvinism or Arminianism is the correct view. The question should be 'Would God inspire Holy Scripture that cannot be understood by committed Christians or whose meaning cannot be agreed upon even by NT scholars and senior Church leaders'?
If the answer is 'no' - then ignore the texts that cause the confusion as they're obviously not inspired Holy Scripture. You get rid of Paul's letters and Hebrews and you get rid of the confusion.
Get rid of Paul's letters alone and you lose half of the new testament. Are we in focus?
This is what happens when men leave the church and create new doctrines and theologies. The only true church, has remained the same for 2,000 years, it has put together the canon of scripture, it has defined Christology and doctrines with ecumenical councils.
The RCC is apostate
@@toolegittoquit_001 Yo mammas apostate
Oh yeah, that great church which elects heretical spokespersons for Christ on earth who contradict all of His teachings, and who pray to graven images, to boot. Luckily nobody takes Catholics seriously anymore.
@@TheNabOwnzz The church defined who was heretics, are you serious? Lol. The church defined what was scripture, the church defined what was doctrine , dogmas. You have no clue what you’re talking about. Go listen to your rock concert on Sunday morning, I’m sure that’s how the apostles worshipped 😂
@@jj691 ...? It's clear you have no idea what you're talking about, actually. You do realize the Catholic church changes every year? How is this compatible with Scripture and an unchanging God? I reckon i don't need to explain why the pope is a heretic, and why post modern Catholic Churches adorned by rainbow flags are the zenith of fiendishness.
They are both wrong, just read your Bible
In my humble opinion, Calvinism makes it sound as if God will save "person A" NO MATTER WHAT even if "person A" gets wind of this and then still chooses to go and live a sinful life all because they know they will be saved in the end.
May I clear something up, we don't know who the elected are. We preach come all who are heavy laden and I will give you rest to everybody because we don't know who the elect are. Those whom God allows to be saved will be saved through the hearing of the gospel. Also we know through reading the scriptures that after salvation you live a life that revolves around Christ, not the world.
It seems you don't understand Calvinism. Calvinism actually teaches the perseverance of the Saints which means those who are truly believers will continue to live for Christ to the very end because of the sustaining grace of God. The modern once saved always saved foolishness that says you can raise your hand in Sunday school at seven years of age then leave and go out and live a godless wicked life after that is not Calvinism at all and Calvin would be the first one to repudiate and revile that teaching!
This was excellent. God is Sovereign and we are free to choose.
I see in this video a message that both Calvinism and Arminianism have infused into Christianity deep thinking and both have produced valuable
think tanks that have fed into Judeo-Christian foundations.
Great you drew them both out as being right. Very CS Lewis of you.
@Miguel Cisneros What do you mean please?
Calvinism is awesome.
*Jonathan* For all the Calvinists I've run into, they come off as being all too interested in converting s/one to Calvinism. Isn't *GOD* awesome Jonathan?
@@Kman. Yes I must agree God is the awesome one but it is also awesome to understand that God is awesome and that is the essence of Calvinism. Nevertheless I agree with the spirit of what you are saying. Spurgeon who was an ardent Calvinist had nothing but praise for his zealous Arminian brothers who lived a good and godly life in Christ.
@@kevincarney1984 Arminianism is not the default position if one is not Calvinist. I don't align with Arminianism. *MARANATHA!*
@@Kman. I understand that and I also would prefer not to identify as a Calvinist per se in any other area than my Soteriology. I am a Baptist by the way and would not have been welcome in John Calvin's church in Geneva. I would like to think of myself primarily as a Biblicist not a Calvinist. Nevertheless I definitely lean toward that Soteriology. Grace and peace to you. Maranatha to you as well, come Lord Jesus.
I see a loose parallel between Calvinist/Arminians and Conservative/Liberals.....one side is bibliocentric...the other leans emotional. One side is logical...the other, again, emotional.
Arminians being bibliocentric and the Christ centered ones.
Arminianism is supported by Biblical evidence. Calvinism is like Marxism: internally coherent, but based on false premises.
OSAS isn’t biblical that’s total Calvinist belief. The Bible says stand firm until the end that is a daily relationship with God. Some have fallen away from the faith.
pot as
OSAS is Calvinist doctrine,
Paul warned about failing of the true grace of God by living carnal and worldly lives (Heb 12:11-17).
Kayson Rhodes
True. The command to abide, endure and the warning passages seem non sensical under a Calvinistic interpretation.
pot as
Paul had a carnal mind. He referred to himself as carnal. I believe he had good understanding
pot as
I believe scripture. Not the doctrines of men. The term OSAS is not a biblical one. You do not have to be commanded to abide in Christ if coming to Christ is all that is needed. You also do not need to be warned if justification is all that God has to do in order to secure your salvation.
pot as
The issue is that you’ve learned a doctrine before examining it in the scriptures. Salvation is of God, but the way that God designed salvation is that man cooperates with the Work of God. Man must be born by the spirit and water. These are not works of man, but works of God operated by men. Man is required to repent, yet scripture teaches that God grants repentance. Man is commanded to abide and endure to the end, yet scripture teaches that God will keep you by grace. That is why we must work out, not for, our salvation with fear and trembling, but giving God the glory.
The OSAS is a Calvinistic philosophy, but it is also practiced among baptist and a scattered few denominations. Jesus’ promise are to those who will respond to him.
OSAS uses terminology foreign to scripture.
God destines everything and we also have 100% free will. Here's the way it can work. If God exists outside of space and time inorder to create space and time, he can choose which universe to exist with it's set of outcomes (including the free choice of human beings). Which means God logically can be sovereign, predestining everything and we can have all the choice as mankind, to be evil or good. God is 100% sovereign and gives us 100% choice because he wants us to be free creatures inorder that we can have a relationship with him if we so choose.
Calvinism doctrine that salvation ended in the past.Arminian doctrine that salvation is not yet finished.Yes, the Arminian not yet been saved.
Calvinism is unconditional love. Arminianism is conditional love.
This makes no sense.
HOW CAN ANYONE WHO IS LOST IN SIN OR DARKNESS MAKE A FREE WILL CHOICE TO SAVE THEMSELVES?
IT'S 100% IMPOSSIBLE.
God ALMIGHTY has chosen ALL of HIS CHOSEN ELECT out of the WORLD 🌎 and GIVEN to JESUS BEFORE the FOUNDATION of the WORLD 🌍 according to the scriptures. In fact read these verses as a Bible study and it will take you to another level in your walk. IT DID ME 🎚️❤️🙏
IT'S BEST TO USE KJV
Matthew 25:34
John 17 5 and 6
John 17:24
Ephesians 1:4 and 5
Ephesians 1:11
1 Corinthians 2:7
2 Thessalonians 2:13
2 Timothy 1:9
Titus 1:2
1 Peter 1:20
The Cross
Revelation 13:8
The Lost
Revelation 17:8
Almost every one of these verses talk about before the foundation of the WORLD 🌎 so that leaves Free Will Choice out of the situation. 100% CUZ IT'S THE FLESH.
ALSO FREE WILL CHOICE IS NOWHERE FOUND IN THE BIBLE AS JESUS SPOKE AGAINST IT IN MATTHEW 7 21 23 AND 2 PETER 2:9 AND 10 FOR THE LOST AND TITUS 1 7 AND 8 FOR THE SAVED.
THERE ARE OVER 60 VERSES THAT TALKS ABOUT THE WILL OF GOD INCLUDING THE LORD'S PRAYER MATTHEW 6 9 AND 10 AND MATTHEW 12:50 AND MANY MORE CUZ THAT'S WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT IS TO DO THE WILL OF GOD THE FATHER WHICH IS CALLED OBEDIENCE.
MATTHEW 7 21 23 has nothing to do with free will, it is about false teachings and prophets. In Genesis, man was giving choice and he disobeyed. God could have prevented all this as he is Sovereign and all powerful. Was Adam and Eve elect? Lean not on out own understanding as said in Proverbs.. some early church fathers twisted the gospel and since man is fallible, created all these issues
@@gtobs3181 what Bible are you reading? Read King James version just because you say Lord Lord does not get you in to the kingdom of heaven repeat
DOES NOT GET YOU INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN,
BUT THOSE THAT DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.
SO THAT MEANS 100% TO DO THE WILL OF GOD THE FATHER NOT YOUR OWN FREE WILL CHOICE IN THE FLESH.
Spoken by Jesus in red letters I'm sorry my friend but you're going to have a sad day on your judgment day when you're cast into a lake of fire for ETERNITY.
😭🥵🔥👿
@@gtobs3181 you say that man was giving choice in Genesis because you don't know the scriptures but the Bible says in Genesis 2:17 do not eat of the tree I command you not to eat of,
FOR THE DAY THAT YOU EAT THEREOF YOU ARE GOING TO DIE.
God Almighty spoke it into existence because it was in his plan so Jesus could make it to the cross and we could be like God knowing Good and evil Genesis 3:22
BEHOLD, MAN HAS BECOME AS ONE OF US, TO KNOW GOOD AND EVIL,
ROMANS 8:29 JESUS IS THE FIRSTBORN AMONG MANY BROTHERS AND SISTERS.
THAT KNOWS GOOD AND EVIL AND HAS CROWNS TO LAY AT THE FEET A JESUS.
Theraree 5 Crowns 👑 to earn which is located in
1st Corinthians 3:11-15
The Crown 👑 of Life --- James 1:12 and Revelation 2:10
The Crown 👑 of Rejoicing --- 1 Thessalonians 2:19
The Crown 👑 of Righteousness ---
2 Timothy 4:8
The Crown 👑 of Glory ---
1 Peter 5:4
The Incorruptible Crown 👑 --- 1 Corinthians 9:25
Gbu Jeff ✝️
100% to receive,.. 0% to reject. God's saving Grace CANNOT be denied. If He wants you,.. He WILL make you want Him.
This denies the possibility of apostasy. It's nonsense.
You can’t lose your salvation. Calvinism is correct on that.
We’re also depraved in sin but we can respond to the gospel.
Jesus made many people well because of their faith.
He even left His home town doing a few miracles because they wouldn’t believe.
Free will is real and God reacts to our decisions
Can you give biblical reference on your statement, please. Thank you.
Jesus did not make many well because of their faith. That would mean that Jesus wouldn’t be able to health us if our faith wasn’t strong.