People need to relax about this. Yes, they are slightly controversial theologies, but they aren’t saving theologies. Paul warns Christians about quarreling over useless controversies
Amen… it seems to me that those who argue about this topic.. don’t read the Bible at all.. at least not in submission to God and allowing the Holy Spirit to teach them
I have moved far from my home and find myself between a Calvinistic & Arminianistic church. They both are preaching the gospel, preaching against sin, and preaching one God. Each have boldly opened up to me to share certain beliefs. Beliefs that go against the scriptures or have no basis in the scriptures at all. Is anyone else praying as I am? “Father! Your Church is so divided. We your children are confused and preaching false doctrines. We deny the salvation of others you gave your life for. Please bring harmony, let the Presbyterian worship with the Pentecostal, the Mennonite with the Baptist, the Calvinist with the Apostolics. Lord you are one God and have given us one Word. Let us love one another and humble ourselves to come to you for wisdom and not our corporations. If David could dance alone in the streets in gratitude for your mercies and favor then why should we be prohibited from raising our hands to heaven when we sing to you? If your apostles lived with very little possessions and without wealth then why must our Christian leaders have earthly treasures like real estate, boats, vacation homes, large salaries? God! Shake your Church. Let her fall to the ground in fear. Open our eyes to our foolishness.”
@@eiontactics9056 Revelation 13:8 English Standard Version 8 and all (A)who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in (B)the book of life of (C)the Lamb (D)who was slain.
@Soldier We must go by what God revealed His will is to us in the Bible! Not base His will off some false unbiblical doctrines that were derived from Manichaeanism, Stoicism and Gnosticism. Also, who are you to tell God what He MUST do to be all powerful? I believe God is the one that teaches us what power, love, grace and mercy is. God is all powerful, but He is also loving, merciful, and just. People tend to put God in a box and get stuck in vain philosophies and the traditions of men... they forget or are blind to what God plainly revealed about Himself in the Bible.
YES! The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
When I embraced Christianity, I found it difficult to maintain these perspectives, as I discovered inherent inconsistencies within both doctrines that ultimately contradict biblical teachings. The Bible teaches both God's sovereignty and man's free will, why destroy what God has created beautifully. These truths are friends and not enemies, why separate them?
There are things I disagree with about both views. I especially disagree with conditional salvation. I think Romans 8 makes it clear that nothing can ever cause a saved person to lose the gift God has already paid for. That doesn't mean that there won't be consequences for our unfaithfulness. Salvation is a gift not earned and sanctification is the process that begins after salvation. we all continue to sin after salvation. Sanctification is growing in holiness and is the road we walk in our mortal bodies desiring to be more like jesus.
The belief in "Conditional Salvation" isn't as presented in this video. "Conditional Salvation" is the belief that one must express their FAITH, TRUST and BELIEF in the PERSON and finished work of Jesus on the Cross as true and real. This is God's "Condition" for Biblical Salvation. Repentance & Faith are the clearly Biblical necessities for experiencing New Life. (Acts 2:38; 17:30)
@@vicrader9195 I agree with that. Salvation is by grace through faith. A repentant heart is the catalyst for salvation. Belief in the heart and confession by the tongue.
As long as there is a chance someone become unfaithful to God, like turning to other God, then you can lose the gift of salvation. Like why do you have to give someone a salvation if they doesn't even care or believe
@@mikel6792 Your view seems right to you because it seems like the right thing to do. But the law could never save us. It can only condemn us. Salvation is a one-time event. The Bible says nothing can ever separate us from the love of God once we have believed. There is a cost for falling away. But it’s not losing salvation.
I can only speak from experience. When I first decided to walk down the aisle of a small Christian non-denominational church and receive Jesus as my Lord and Savior I was completely ignorant when it came to the Bible or salvation for that matter. I had come from a dirty background of alcohol, drugs, nightclubs, and one night stands. My faith at the time stood firm on science which up until that moment had been led by deep study into physics emphasizing on general relativity and quantum mechanics. I understood these concepts very well, but I also realized science couldn’t save my soul so that’s when I turned to the Word of God. I had been raised a Catholic, by tradition not choice, but I never found real interest in religious dogma. To me their ritualistic approach to matters of faith were dull and boring, I was more interested in the pursuit of knowledge and wisdom. After having received Jesus in Oct of 91, I was told by the pastor that I was now saved and on my way to Heaven; people really? That’s it? I didn’t feel any different, my thoughts, motives, and attitude remained the same. I decided that I wasn’t going to just take this pastor’s word, I was going to do my own homework. I had to, my soul and my eternal future depended on it and I was a person that needed absolute certainty! I decided to purchase the King James Bible on CD and listen to it on all those wasted hours driving back and forth to work in rush hour traffic. Travel time to work was an hour, an hour lunch which I spent in my car eating a sandwich out of a small cooler, and the hour drive back home. That was 3 hours of Word a day 5 times per week. That’s a lot of Word! This went on for little over 3 years where not only did I have scores and scores of scriptures memorized, but also entire CHAPTERS memorized verbatim word for word. I could tell you what is in the Bible and what isn’t. I had a tremendous amount of Word in my head, not in my heart. This would change one memorable Saturday morning March 25,1995. I was alone in my car at the beach listening to integrity Hosana Worship music, reading God’s Word, and loving Him with all my heart, mind, soul, and strength. I remember reading in Matthew chapter 5 to “love your enemies”, this was something I could never see myself doing! How can you possibly love someone that’s causing you harm? I don’t understand this kind of love! I looked up to the sky and let my imagination, which by now was overflowing with love, run wild as to how beautiful it would be to be just like Jesus! Suddenly it happened, it really happened! I saw something open within my mind and all that Word I had accumulated for years poured into me removing the blinders from my eyes, causing my brain processes to skyrocket, and giving me the knowledge of God! “Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my Spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.” (Proverbs 1:23) I was terrified! I literally felt the demons that lived in me and had been with me my entire life leap out of me with a hideous screech! How is this possible Lord, I thought, how can a mere man understand God? Scriptures began flooding my mind: “My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee; So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding; Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.” (Proverbs 2:1-5) When I picked up the Bible and began reading it something was now very different. I had always read and listened to the Bible as a 3rd person, in other words, this apostle is writing to this other apostle, this scripture doesn’t apply to me. This is of course the mental BEAM spoken of by Jesus in Matthew chapter 7. For the very first time since I began my study of the scriptures did I realize the scriptures were speaking directly to me! The Words were like 3-D, a hologram! Who is this 3rd person I keep imagining? Every scripture, every parable I didn’t seem to understand was as plain as if I was reading a children’s book! This is when I could see the utter Perfection of God’s Word and the inerrancy of scripture. The only way to describe what had just happened to me was “HOLINESS” had entered me! “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.” (Proverbs9:10) So you may be asking yourself, how does my testimony relate to this video? Well it seems to me it’s quite obvious. There is only one Jesus, the one revealed in scripture. Jesus and the written Word are ONE AND THE SAME. There is no other way to God except through His Word! It is the Word that gives the reader the SPIRIT: “It is the SPIRIT that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the WORDS that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are life.” (John 6:63) The fact is you must be BORN AGAIN of the Word: “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the WORD OF GOD, which liveth and abideth for ever.” (1 Peter 1:23) When you read the following passage with those Words in 3-D jumping out of the pages you will come to the realization that the Bible is speaking of itself! “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by ME.” (John 14:6) So this argument of Calvinism vs Arminianism is settled, EVERYONE can approach the scriptures the way I did, and EVERYONE can love God the way did, and God will reveal Himself to whom ever He sees is ready to receive His Truth. So the question is not which one of these two views is correct, but rather how much is the individual willing to do to love and find God! “If ye continue in my WORD, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the TRUTH, and the TRUTH shall make you FREE.” (John 8:31-32)
The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
Thanks for your testimony sir. At the moment i am in deep search of truth. I've tried many sermons and preachers on UA-cam and such.. I admit I've searched little in the scripture. Romans 9 has hit me so hard this week about my stand as an Arminian. I still hold the belief that neither of the side saves a man but Christ and Faith in Him alone. As much Calvinism says contrary view on this, I still believe it's true but again I lay myself helpless on this matter as I look for the Truth in the Holy Bible
@@kiruikipkorir702 seek God through His Word as true saving FAITH, comes only by hearing The Word: “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.” (Romans 10:17)
This video was very helpful and gracious, thank you. Currently, I am doing a study on this topic, and haven't reached a conclusion yet. Prayerfully, I will continue to study and hope that I honor God through His Word.
The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
@@harveygitarista1600 Thank you for your comment. I appreciate the emphasis on the importance of preaching the gospel; I agree. My point in learning about this topic is not to create divisions. Just because something's not a salvation issue doesn't mean it isn't important to look at. God has given us His word, and it is our responsibility to be heralds of His word. That means when he says things about how people are saved, I need to do my due diligence to prayerfully and faithfully handle what He says, so as to not misrepresent Him. You are right that this should not be a focus -- to a point. I know of a ministry, as far as I know, where the entire focus is on trying to convince you of Arminianism. I disagree with that philosophy. The gospel is what God has given us to preach to the world, and it is good that you say that. Thank you, and may we all be faithful to our Savior.
If you’re still studying, I found a really helpful book! It’s called “The Potters Promise” by Leighton Flowers and is a biblical assessment of soteriology (study of salvation). It’s so great!
The sovereign God created human beings /autonomous agents who can choose for themselves to obey Him or not. In this there's no contradiction Calvinistic soveighty of God by definition denies that human beings are free autonomous agents that can choose for themselves. Oh most of them they don't admit the obvious contradiction and they attempt to explain how it is not!!! Some, like this one, they admit the obvious contradiction but they tell you that we should live with that!!! In the meantime in anyway they want to say it...they're saying that God is the author of sin and evil, Who have chosen to save some by giving Jesus only for these few and He prefers/to see the majority of humanity burn in hell, though Jesus's blood is enough for the whole world!!!
@@mariospontos5096 Calvinism does not deny free will, but it asserts that, left to himself, no person will freely choose salvation. The Bible is clear that the natural man is completely incapable of choosing God. In His sovereignty, God chooses to override the free will of some people, to open their eyes so that they can understand and embrace Jesus as their Savior. Is this fair? No. But it is just. You will search the Scriptures in vain for any hint that God is fair. In His parable of the vineyard owner, it was not fair that the owner paid those who worked only an hour the same as those who worked for twelve hours, but Jesus defended his right to do what he wanted with his own money. It is not fair that God chooses some and not all, but God does not owe salvation to anyone. Those who are not God's elect have no just cause for complaint because they get what they deserve, what they freely chose. That God, in His sovereignty and omniscience, chooses some does not mean that those who are not chosen have been treated unjustly. As Romans 9:22-24 says, "What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory-even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?" This is a rhetorical question. The answer is that God can do whatever He wants with whomever He wants. It is curious to me how nobody ever argues against the doctrine of election from the Old Testament. Election in the Old Testament is so bold, so in your face, that nobody can doubt it. God chose Abraham, Abraham did not choose God. God chose Isaac and Jacob. God chose Moses to be His servant and prophet, and He chose Pharaoh to be His enemy. I know from my personal experience that there is no difference between my free will and God's sovereign will, and this is clearly shown in the life of Pharaoh. The text records that sometimes God hardened Pharaoh's heart, sometimes Pharaoh hardened his own heart, and sometimes the text simply says that his heart was hardened without specifying an agent. The argument that the command to choose necessitates the ability to choose is a philosophical argument, not a Biblical argument. Consider the Lamb's Book of Life in the Book of Revelation. The names of God's elect were written in that book before God created the universe. Do not be confused by Revelation 3:5. That passage does not speak of anybody's name being blotted out of the Book of Life; it speaks only of people not being blotted out of the Book of Life. Any assertion that a statement about people not being blotted out of the Book of Life necessitates some names being blotted out is an inference not justified by a careful reading of the text.
When Calvin died, Jacobus was only 4 years old, had not even gone to pre-school! Wished they were born round about the same time so that they could have debated their ideas!!😂
No, it is not a "change my mind" play. Only the elect understand about election. Calvin would have labored in vain to persuade a man with old Pelagian heresy.
No debate needed. The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
Call me crazy but none of this sounds contradictory to me. Actually, it seems like they are both true, just looking from different angles. I think people often times believe they are disagreeing with one another when really they’re not. Just a humble observation
Exactly what I was going to say! Sometimes I wonder why each group is at each other's throats. Both sides are right, they are just seeing things from different perspectives. And that's why the narrator of this video said no one can truly explain God away. Especially with logic.
You might be right. I just think Christians need to spend their time and mental capacities on more important matters. Evangelism is going to be IMPOSSIBLE if we keep convoluting the message of repentance through Christ alone.
Nah if you are Calvinist And believes God pass over people Or created people to throw them to hell You need mental treatment Also you doesn't believe God is fair And Good God
I love your summary at the end. Perfect. Does not matter at the end of the day as long as we make sure not to harden our hearts when he hear his call and to be obedient and persevere to the end. Both views hold truth but I doubt any has it all right. God would have made it super clear what election means if he wanted us to know everything. some mysteries will only be revealed in heaven.
Firstly, pre-destination is a false doctrine created by the devil to give God a bad image of being unfair and hating humans. This false doctrine gives some humans pride where they think they are better than others by default so they have a license to sin whereas Jesus said in Luke 13:3 “Unless you repent you will likewise perish” (See also 1 Corinthians 6:9)
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Pride is exactly what the doctrine of predestination does not produce. Rather, it produces a sense of wonder, "Given that there is absolutely nothing in me to commend me to God, why did He choose me?" It is unbelief in the doctrine of predestination that produces pride. "There was some measure of wisdom and understanding in me that other people don't have because I had the good sense to respond to the gospel." But neither Christians who believe in predestination nor Christians who don't think that they have a license to sin.
If you are drowning in the sea and if one throws you a rope (Grace) for you to hold on to, and then you respond and hold on to it and then he pulls you to safety, then who saved you? Your friend saved you by the rope (grace). If you refuse to hold on to the rope and then if you die and perish, who is responsible for your death? Your friend is not going to force you to catch the rope. He is not going to throw a net and catch you, if you do not want to be saved. Finally, "He that is of the truth, heareth My voice" - Sweet Jesus.
The problem with the rope story is the man in the water is already dead so he can’t grab the rope. Jesus said we are spiritually dead so unless God calls us and awakens our spirit we will not wake up
God give us ALL a thrashing when we open our eyes to life in eternity. Cause our hearts to ache and our eyes to pour tears for the damage we have done in the name of doctrine. Show us the lives lost to hell due to our bickering, fighting, hypocrisy, and arguing.
We are completely responsible for our actions and at the exact same time everything is predetermined by God. We choose God because He chose us. We can accept that but we can never comprehend it because the finite mind cannot comprehend God.
Charles Simeon (Calvinist) and John Wesley (Arminian): [Simeon] Sir, I understand that you are called an Arminian; and I have been sometimes called a Calvinist; and therefore I suppose we are to draw daggers. But before I consent to begin the combat, with your permission I will ask you a few questions. Pray, Sir, do you feel yourself a depraved creature, so depraved that you would never have thought of turning to God, if God had not first put it into your heart? [Wesley] Yes, I do indeed. [Simeon] And do you utterly despair of recommending yourself to God by anything you can do; and look for salvation solely through the blood and righteousness of Christ? [Wesley] Yes, solely through Christ. [Simeon] But, Sir, supposing you were at first saved by Christ, are you not somehow or other to save yourself afterwards by your own works? [Wesley] No, I must be saved by Christ from first to last. [Simeon] Allowing, then, that you were first turned by the grace of God, are you not in some way or other to keep yourself by your own power? [Wesley] No. [Simeon] What then, are you to be upheld every hour and every moment by God, as much as an infant in its mother’s arms? [Wesley] Yes, altogether. [Simeon] And is all your hope in the grace and mercy of God to preserve you unto His heavenly kingdom? [Wesley] Yes, I have no hope but in Him. [Simeon] Then, Sir, with your leave I will put up my dagger again; for this is all my Calvinism; this is my election my justification by faith, my final perseverance: it is in substance all that I hold, and as I hold it; and therefore, if you please, instead of searching out terms and phrases to be a ground of contention between us, we will cordially unite in those things where in we agree.
We can all agree that our feeble inept mortal minds will never comprehend the complexities of Gods sovereignty and how scripture interprets it. That’s how we know the Bible is divine inspired, if it made sense with no contradictions then it is possible to be man made. However there is a Great mystery that is so infinite in glory that it will take an eternity for us to grasp
@@aletheia8054 the next verse says How can they believe if they have not heard the word of God. The word of God produces Faith. And faith is what is needed to receive God's Grace.
@@joeydaniel3053 If grace means unmerited favor why would you have to do something to receive unmerited favor. That defeats the whole point of it being unmerited favor.
Love is impossible without freewill. Calvinists think God is less God if He does not control all aspects of human existence. He does not need puppets. He welcomes us into his family, but you can choose to walk away. If not, then the relationship is not love.
@@TheFinalJigsaw Never said that He does. God needs nothing. He chose to create us for our benefit. We get the joy of eternal life with our Creator. Learning from the Creator how to truly love.🙂
The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
@@harveygitarista1600 I almost agree with you fully. Debate is an important part of life. Hard to get 3 people to agree, try billions of people. You said ..."We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions"... uuummm sounds like your wasting time giving your side of an "unnecessary" division. Just saying.👍👍
I literally cannot choose to walk away because I have no desire to walk away. Just like I can't choose to stop enjoying the taste of my favorite foods or the sounds of my favorite music. These things are out of my hands
If Calvinism is true, it means that God creates disposable people, people without any hope,” “It means that God not only allows, but micro-manages and sovereignly ordains, every war and every abortion and every rape of a child. It means that Calvin’s god does not love the world; he hates it because it is full of “totally depraved” individuals having apparently created us that way for his own glorification, or is it for his amusement? If Calvinism is true , it means that if that dying child that you held in your arms was not among the elect, then God did not love her. He never had any intention of loving her. She was nothing to Him. In fact, he would delight and find glory in her eternal torture in hell.” Who are really created in the image of then, God or satan? “And whenever I raise these points with Calvinists, all they can say is that I should be more grateful for my own salvation! It’s like, ‘as long as my eternal destiny is secure, as long as my life is all planned out and taken care of by God, who gives a damn about family, friends or anyone else!’ How can you be okay with that? How can anyone be okay with that? Why do I feel find this heresy morally offensive?” Only the devil should be at ease with such an abomination! According to Calvinism the lost hate God because God first hated them. They won't say it that way, but that's what it boils down to. Romans 16 : 17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.
Good point! The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
@@klismannviana2514 It is my belief that man atheists who declare "God is evil!" grew up in a Calvinist household, or at least they were only exposed to Calvinism. Unrelated, but I have Dutch heritage, so I find it really cool that the man I base my theology on was Dutch too!
Excellent presentation! The truth is that even though both systems fail, God's Word is true! You don't have to come down on either side. Just believe what the Bible says!
I tend towards Calvinism because, the older I get, the more I realize that my faith in Christ, and my preservation and growth in faith, has been and is, from first to last, a gift and work of God. God’s decision for me and God’s election of me is everything. Whatever decision or choice I have made fades into irrelevancy before God’s gracious and underserved election of me. I especially treasure the Calvinistic teaching about the “preservation of the saints.” When we say “To God be the glory”, we have to mean ALL the glory. Now having said that, I have heard Dr. Sproul (whom I greatly respect) preach sermons not far off from what Billy Graham would preach, calling and beseeching people to put all their trust in Christ. The only real difference is that Dr. Sproul and other Calvinists don’t have an altar call. Bottom line for me as a preacher - Believe like a Calvinist; preach like an Arminian ( without the altar call). Let God quietly do his work in the human heart as he wills.
IMO, the idea of preaching trust in Christ is more about gospel correction than going arminian. Instead of earning salvation by being good boy and quitting smoking etc, to try to earn what your faith in Christ should reward you with, trust in Christ is the admission that there IS no atonement, even partially, and the blood does literally all the work, immediately. The quitting smoking and being good boy can (or maybe not?) come later through sanctification and conformity to Christ, as fruits that simply show evidence of your faith to your brethren, and as witness to the unbeliever.
I've downloaded john gill bible commentary free on Google play he's a Calvinst and adam clarke he's Armenian I love read both of them do think I should stop reading commentarys and just read nowt but the bible.
Right!? Calvinists say "Sovereign" all the time but then when I ask them what they mean by it... it is a completely different definition of Sovereignty and actually contradicts Sovereignty. God can not be Sovereign if He can ONLY be Sovereign in a world where He has to meticulously control every molecule or it could thwart His plans. Calvinists have a weak unbiblical god.
I think that some people love their "Theology more than they love Jesus and others." The Body of Christ is bigger than what some may think or teach! We can be brothers & sisters without being "Identical Twins."
This is why it's important to renew your mind. When we do that, we understand what He has declared in His Word, rather then diverting to Calvinism or Armenianism
You wanna get stuck in the weeds? Pick a theology to die on. Getting wrapped up on intellectual self indulgence is a waste of time. Might I dare say a sin! Keep it simple. God is sovereign. Christ died for our sins. Follow & practice the teachings & love one another. We have had enough to argue about.
CUT TO THE CHASE: When Jesus died on the cross He died for "ALL" human beings and He is not "willing" that any should be lost. The BIBLE is clear on this, read it - John 3:16 and 2 Peter 3:9. (And there are many more CLEAR texts on this topic of "ALL." The Original NT Greek word for "All" means "All" not some, or few.) I am a Bible-Believing Christian who got Saved by placing my Faith (Trust) in God's Love for me expressed through His Son Jesus paying the death penalty for my sins. He changed my life forever. I think that some people love their "Theology more than they love Jesus and others." The Body of Christ is bigger than what some may think or teach! We can be brothers & sisters without being "Identical Twins."
One way to think of it is that Calvinism believes God is completely and ultimately sovereign over His creation, while Arminianism believes man's free will is preeminent over God's sovereignty.
The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. Stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. Go out there and preach the Gospel. Stop wasting your time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
That is not accurate. Arminianism believes that God's sovereignty is preeminent over everything. But, unlike Calvinism, it also believes that God sovereignly chose to give man free will and make man responsible to choose whether or not to repent and believe the gospel.
It’s sad that gotquestions has not made a decision, but rather stands on the fence to remain neutral. I’ve used their site for so many questions….this is one they don’t truly answer. 😢
@@faithdepp5282 Romans 3:10-18 10 as it is written: “There is no righteous person, not even one; 11 There is no one who understands, There is no one who seeks out God; 12 They have all turned aside, together they have become [a]corrupt; There is no one who does good, There is not even one.” 13 “Their throat is an open grave, With their tongues they keep deceiving,” “The venom of [b]asps is under their lips”; 14 “Their mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”; 15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood, 16 Destruction and misery are in their paths, 17 And they have not known the way of peace.” 18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” For one to say they've chosen God and done it on their own accord is not what the Bible teaches. (Assuming you're saved) are you to say it wasn't the work of the Holy Spirit that brought you to the LORD? If you've truly looked into your heart as I have I would never seek out God, I would never choose to be good as God is.
The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
Actually they are hiding their beliefs. It’s quite dishonest. If you look at their website, they are 4 point Calvinists. I’ll save you the trouble; they themselves say so. That’s why their positions tend to have a more Calvinist slant. Calvinism is unbiblical, and limited atonement is straight up heresy. Even Calvin himself didn’t believe that, because John the apostle directly contradicts it. I’m at least glad GotQuestions doesn’t believe in that. Calvinism destroys the Gospel. For a true (high) Calvinist, it is impossible to preach the Gospel to everyone and say, Jesus died for all your sins. It becomes, Jesus may have died for your sins. Without free will in salvation there is no love, and without love there is no point to it all, or hope. We simply do what we are made to do. I guess I was predestined to dislike predestination 😂
Did Cain have the ability to not kill Able?? What purpose could there be to predestine, before all time, to make one of the first 4 humans on the earth to murder the other? or...was freewill available, like Adam and Eve, to choose right or wrong?
Perfact love means that you give that person the absolute choice to NOT love you. Ore to Love you. It requires absolute Grace to. alow someone to accept or walk away. And absolute respect of someone's freedom of choice so they can freely love you. God is Absolutely Perfact in all aspects of His character ballanced by justice and grace.
Firstly, pre-destination is a false doctrine created by the devil to give God a bad image of being unfair and hating humans. This false doctrine gives some humans pride where they think they are better than others by default so they have a license to sin whereas Jesus said in Luke 13:3 “Unless you repent you will likewise perish” (See also 1 Corinthians 6:9)
I pray to Father, the Father of Mercy, and Holiness, that we all find Christ his Son, and be guided by the Spirit, as long as we try to learn from preachers who keep God’s word True and untampered. Hope we are to gather and join with neighbors who keep the same Faith. Yes Lord, the gates are narrow that lead to heaven, that is your Word, but when we remember that this earthly life is temporary and find God’s grace, understand that Jesus died for our sins, that we can be saved. In Jesus name, Amen 🙏
@@aletheia8054 Jesus blessed many who do not know him fully, the Apostles did as well in Jesus’ name, and many do not know the Apostles. I will still pray for you.
It seems like these people had a remarkable talent for making the simplest concepts incredibly incomprehensible. Keep the message of repentance through faith in Christ simple. That’s the way God always intended for it to be received.
Exactly! The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
@@harveygitarista1600 As far as I can see, Arminianism is Calvinism repackaged. I reject both entirely. The biggest logical problem for Calvinism is the erroneous presupposition that sovereignty automatically implies determinism. The problem is that we have people who’d rather love and worship a doctrine rather than their Creator. Rather than blindly accept propositional doctrinal conclusions, we need to get back to what Scripture ACTUALLY says (not what we THINK it’s “teaching”) and learn how to think through these things epistemically.
Apparently, ALL religions come into conflict when "well read scholars" input their interpretations and insists that they are right and all others are wrong! From muslims to buddists, Jews to Christians, Hindu and others all suffer the same divisiveness! Sometimes it seems "scholars" are the real reason people have harder times getting along!
I think that some people love their "Theology more than they love Jesus and others." The Body of Christ is bigger than what some may think or teach! We can be brothers & sisters without being "Identical Twins."
@reno moore If you're just making a statement...fine. If you're suggesting, that I think all religions are the same, then perhaps you're being "scholarly"...or judgemental. For me, Christianity isn't a "religion"...it's a Reality. The ONLY reality! People can affix clever "words", phrases, interpretations all they want. Don't change a thing for me! I'll assume your were just making a statement! Since this is America, every one has the right to say as they please! I was remarking above that ALL religions (pagan or otherwise) seems to always have "scholars" muddying the waters. I assume you're a Christian, so are you totally independent? Or, identified with a particular denomination? If you're of a denomination, then you are in conflict with your own statement, "Your not a Christian if you think all religions are the same, or a believer". Because whether your are Baptist, Anglican, Lutheran, Calvinist, Methodist, Pentecost, Catholic these ARE groups, THEY ARE NOT THE SAME (in total beliefs, views of the trinity, etc) so by your own words, YOU WOULD NOT BE A CHRISTIAN or a BELIEVER!!! You can't look from the outside and say "this" applies to "you" but NOT TO ME!!! But I do understand just your flat statement! Outside of Christianity, ALL other "religions, beliefs" are just that, beliefs. If someone wants to pick up a stick, paint it, dress it and say this is Hue-Ba-Ha-Ba, knock yourself out! Christian brother, you pray for me and I for you! We'll laugh later!!!
@@intothekey One can think deeply or shadow and everything in between. Do you believe "now" as you did as a youth? Have you discovered, changed, reflect differently as you matured? "What's the correct response?" I have no idea! One can think deeply about whatever they want. The "bad idea" happens when ppl tried to push, force and make others believe and do as they do...that's the bad idea! I rather be superficial, than to force my beliefs onto others! I can't SAVE anyone no matter how DEEPLY I THINK and neither can you! Mussolini was a deep thinker! Stalin was a deep thinker! Mao was a deep thinker! Having open and frank discussions are fine. But truly, what say you when discussion turns to "hair splitting"? Why do we have some MANY denominations? Is this good? Doesn't this distract, instead of attract? What do you say to young ones that ask why, some many denominations?
My two cents: Old Testament answer to Calvinism - God's response to King Asa: " The Lord is with you while you are with him. If you seek him, he will be found by you, but if you forsake him, he will forsake you" 2 Chronicles 15:2 ESV). New Testament answer to Calvinism - "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned" (John 15:4-6 ESV). These are essentially saying the same thing. Righteousness only comes through faith (i.e., "Abraham BELIEVED GOD and it was credited to him as righteousness") -- and this was true under both the old and new covenants. A covenant is a binding agreement between TWO or more parties. God would never forsake his side of the covenant. However, Israel (in the Old Testament) forsook their side of the covenant -- and they were carried away from the Promised Land as a result. I would point out that "believing God" is slightly different than "believing IN God." The demons believe (and tremble). However, the greater question is whether someone believes what God says through his Word. The Calvinist would argue that you cannot believe God unless you are "drawn" to God. In other words, you cannot truly be convinced in your minds or hearts because only the "elect" can believe. Yet, there are many verses in the Old and New Testaments that refer to putting away unbelief and believing. After all, God has drawn ALL PEOPLE to Christ by the cross (John 12:32). The question then remains: Can someone who has believed God's Word ever stop believing God's Word? In the Old Testament, there were people who believed and then fell into idolatry, immorality, etc. I'm not just talking about the Israelites at the time of Balaam (when God's wrath fell on them) but also of men like Solomon -- who fell into the same sort of sin. He accumulated 700 wives and 300 concubines. He eventually built altars for THEIR gods and even participated in the sacrifices and worship to them. This is the king of whom God twice appeared to. In the final chapter of Nehemiah, Nehemiah mentions how Solomon fell after marrying foreign women and ultimately "acted treacherously" against God (Nehemiah 13:26-27). It's also the thing that Jesus speaks against in Revelation 2:14.
Calvin's God, like Mohammed's, is absolute sheer Will. Nothing created has any real autonomy. Creation is a stage-play, written, produced and directed by the God of Geneva, with the characters merely acting a part. This God also writes the reviews.
You clearly have never studied Islam or Reformed Theology if you think the two are analogous. Not sure why allowing the perfect God to write, produce, direct and review his own show would be a bad thing either - sounds like an emotional argument and not a scriptural one.
@@JohnnyCrack Sorry to disappoint but I have spent many hours, over years, studying both. Religion has been a lifelong interest of mine. My argument is not scriptural, since I am not a Christian. It is partially emotional (emotions are part of how we know reality) and partly rational. Hard predestination, either Islamic or Calvinist, has no room for human freedom. How that differs from puppetry, well, that escapes me.
@@polemeros Islam is an entirely works-based religion. Your "hours" of study haven't made you any smarter on religion if you think Christianity and Islam, let alone Calvinism and Islam have similar views on the will of man.
God is not willing that any should perish, yet MOST are on the broad road leading to destruction. So, obviously God's will is NOT being done in at least some instances. In Jeremiah, God says, "They built the high places to sacrifice their children to idols, something I did NOT command, nor did I speak it, nor did it enter my mind." Joshua said, "CHOOSE you this day whom you will serve." ALSO, you will never convince me in a million years that the God of the Bible, who IS Love, is the cause of EVERY evil you can imagine; Satan worship, child molestation, prostitution, drugs, alcohol, pornography, human trafficking, murder, rape, not to mention, the Christ rejecting religions of Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Atheism. This Calvinistic God is NOT the God of scripture.
Absolutely, Perfectly concluded. The application of either doctrine limits the infinite GOD of the Bible. The Bible teaches 1) GOD is Sovereign exercising HIS Providence to achieve HIS intended results/ end and 2) GOD created mankind in HIS image as ontological and volitional beings capable of making independent decisions. So if we consider the truth of the Bible, as this video points out, both Calvinism and Arminianism fail!
Lean not on your own understanding, in all ways acknowledge Him he shall make your paths straight. Of course I forgot the exact verse. But instead of relying on our own understanding we should rely on God all the time. In Jesus name. Amen
Great video, this cleared up some confusion I had! So in a sense, Calvinists believe that those who have been predestined to go to heaven were kind of "randomly" (for lack of a better word) picked, without God paying attention or seeing the future as to how they would lead their lives. Arminianism states that based on the idea that God could sort of "see the future" and that anyone could become saved, but because God knows all, He knows who will ultimately choose a life of faith because he is an omniscient god. Do I have that right?? Trying to make sense of it all...
Calvinism fits better, for there’s too many things we cannot decide( birthplace, family, etc.), and how can we freely decide to accept free gift by our sinful nature? In fact, believers of Arminism constantly fall into self righteousness and moralism, attempting to keep salvation through deeds, for their belief in conditional salvation; While Calvinists believe in unconditional salvation, which makes them humble before God and other people, and willingly perform the Great Commission. In conclusion, salvation comes only from God, not deeds, once saved, always saved. That’s my view point, and God bless you, Amen!
Neither is correct. Stop following someone’s opinion. Paul answered that debate long before these two assumptions. In Romans 5:18-19, “Therefore just as one man's trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man's act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all. For just as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.” Romans 5:18-19 We are all restored to righteousness because of the obedience of Christ. Permanently!
*_What the Bible Says About Freewill_* John 3:16 For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believes in Him shall not parish but have eternal life. Joshua 24:15 15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then CHOOSE for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.” John 7:17 17 Anyone who CHOOSES to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. Hebrews 3:7-11 7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you will hear His voice, 8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness, 9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years. 10 Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.’ 11 So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest.’ ” Hebrews 3:12-13 12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in DEPARTING from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. Ezra 7:13 13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own FREEWILL to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee. Exodus 35:21 21 And they came, every one whose heart stirred him up, and every one whom his spirit made WILLING, and they brought the Lord's offering to the work of the tabernacle of the congregation, and for all his service, and for the holy garments. Exodus 8:32 32 And Pharaoh HARDENED HIS HEART at this time ALSO, neither would he let the people go. God hardened his heart by allowing him to choose to harden his own heart. Works like that... John 1:12-13 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the WILL of the flesh nor of the WILL of man, but of God. John 7:17 If anyone's WILL is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority. 2 Peter 3:9 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone TO COME TO REPENTANCE. Over and over the Bible talks about our willingness to come to God. "Calvinism denies man’s free will to obey or disobey God, which is the basis of man’s responsibility and accountability, as taught by the Bible." Calvinism is heretical. They cherry pick verses. They teach that free will does not exist despite what the Bible says. They do not believe in a rapture. They also believe the 1,000 year millennium reign of Christ is happening right now. The list goes on and on. They don't believe people can deny Christ and go to hell if they are "chosen". As if we can spit in God's face all of our lives and still get to heaven if we are one of His "chosen", His "elect". 2 Peter 2:20-21 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. That means when the sinner that had the full gospel then refuses the gospel his last state will be worse than his state before knowing Christ. That requires free will. On the cross, Jesus became sin. Everyone's sin. Not only for "whom He chose". They believe we lost free will when Adam sinned. They believed that by the first sin we lost the ability to love God on our own terms. Augustine, one of which influenced John Calvin, said, “by subverting the rectitude in which he was created, he is followed with the punishment of not being able to do right” and “the freedom to abstain from sin has been lost as a punishment of sin.” This goes against everything the entire Bible preaches.
Once you accept Jesus Christ as your savior and lord, you no longer belong to yourself anymore. "“I have been crucified with Christ: and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me, and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God" Galatians 2:20 The new man that has been born out of the Spirit has the Spirit's desires "And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good." Romans 7:16 I pray Jesus Christ will reveal you the full understanding of His grace so that you are spared the great suffering self-righteousness brings.
What the Bible says about everything being Gods will…. What God does is forever Eccl 3:14, 15 - I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him. v15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past. Workmanship (Poiema - Tapestry / artwork) Eph 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Declaring End from beginning Isaiah 46:10 - Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: Phil 2:13 - For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Works all things Eph 1:11 - In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will I Thes 5:18 - In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. Rom 8:28 - And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. Acts 15:18 - Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. Acts 3:18 - But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. I Cor 12:6 - And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. Isaiah 42:9 - Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. Acts 4:28 - For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. John 1:13 - Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. James 1:18 - Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. I Create Evil, I Do All Things Isaiah 45:7 - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Eph 1:22, 23 - And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, v23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. Above all Eph 4:6 - One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Giving Thanks for All Eph 5:20 - Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; By Him all things consist Col 1:17 - And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. In all things preeminence Col 1:18 - And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. Head of all principality (arche - rule) & power Col 2:10 - And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: Christ is all Col 3:11 - Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Daniel 4:35 - And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? Isaiah 64:6-8 - But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. v7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities. v8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand. Daniel 4:17, 25, 32 - This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men. v25 That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will. v32 And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will. Psalms 135:6-12 - Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places. v7 He causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings for the rain; he bringeth the wind out of his treasuries. v8 Who smote the firstborn of Egypt, both of man and beast. v9 Who sent tokens and wonders into the midst of thee, O Egypt, upon Pharaoh, and upon all his servants. v10 Who smote great nations, and slew mighty kings; v11 Sihon king of the Amorites, and Og king of Bashan, and all the kingdoms of Canaan: v12 And gave their land for an heritage, an heritage unto Israel his people. Snowstorms and whirlwinds (tornados) all are the will of God when they destroy Job 37:3-19 - He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth. v4 After it a voice roareth: he thundereth with the voice of his excellency; and he will not stay them when his voice is heard. v5 God thundereth marvellously with his voice; great things doeth he, which we cannot comprehend. v6 For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain, and to the great rain of his strength. v7 He sealeth up the hand of every man; that all men may know his work. v8 Then the beasts go into dens, and remain in their places. v9 Out of the south cometh the whirlwind: and cold out of the north. v10 By the breath of God frost is given: and the breadth of the waters is straitened. v11 Also by watering he wearieth the thick cloud: he scattereth his bright cloud: v12 And it is turned round about by his counsels: that they may do whatsoever he commandeth them upon the face of the world in the earth. v13 He causeth it to come, whether for correction, or for his land, or for mercy. v14 Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God. v15 Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine? v16 Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge? v17 How thy garments are warm, when he quieteth the earth by the south wind? v18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass? v19 Teach us what we shall say unto him; for we cannot order our speech by reason of darkness. God reserves snow for His purposes Job 38:22, 23 - Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail, v23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war? God orders lightning, feeds lions, provides food for ravens Job 38:35-41 - Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are? v36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart? v37 Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven, v38 When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together? v39 Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions, v40 When they couch in their dens, and abide in the covert to lie in wait? v41 Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat.
Well said! Calvinism cherry picks a relative handful of Scriptures entirely out of context, changes the definitions of some of the words found in Scripture ("Election" and "Predestination", to name two), and thus twists the plain Word of God into a bizarre, contradictory amalgamation of Augustinian proto-Romanism, Manicheanism and pagan Greek philosophy. Then they have to desperately distract from Scriptures that disprove their interpretations like the ones you listed, or else fall all over themselves trying to explain how those Scriptures don't actually say what they clearly say!
@@DamonNomad82 hey brother i'd love to have a discord video call with you and see if you can show me (with the bible ofc) arminianism is biblical and why calvinism is wrong.
@@YAHOOISNOTG With all due respect, I'm afraid I must disappoint you on that. As I suffer from crippling social anxiety, any form of discussion other than typed is unfortunately out of the question in my case, as the only thing a video call would accomplish is you seeing me have a nervous breakdown, which would be unhelpful to either of us, as I would be unable to make any points and any point you might make would have trouble getting through to someone in a state of complete panic. I am not on any other social media platform other than UA-cam, and have no interest in ever being on one. If you're willing to discuss the topic in this comment section, I can certainly do so. However, you seem to be presupposing that Calvinism and Arminianism are opposites and that as a non-Calvinist that I adhere to Arminianism, neither of which is the case. Arminius was a lifelong Calvinist, and held to the vast majority of what Calvin taught. The only real differences between the two soteriologies stem from the rather superficial differences on the last 4 points of "TULIP". There are many points with which I disagree with both.
Well put, right? The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
Both are philosophies of the Bible, the Holy Spirit breathed book, if I say I received “revelation” that I should kill people and say it was the Holy Spirit, what do we do? we compare it with scripture, it is the inherent word of God, therefore that excuse for a lack of theological depth is not galid
The Bible is God's innerrant word,it is "truth",I thank God for the spirit of truth,faith cometh by hearing and by hearing the word of God,his "word" is truth,Proverbs 18-21;the power of life and death is in the tongue,those who love it shall eat its fruit,the Lord bless you this day.
I think that some people love their "Theology more than they love Jesus and others." The Body of Christ is bigger than what some may think or teach! We can be brothers & sisters without being "Identical Twins."
I think arminians are those who were pharisees in the time of Christ, who can gain their salvation by their good works, not by God's work. It's very simple to understand... Who created you? Who gaves us grace to be saved? Who governs the world?... "no one is righteous, no, not one."
faith is not a work, litterally the whole book of romans contrasts faith and works so being predestined because of forseen faith is not working for salvation
No my friend, you have it quite backwards. The Pharisees were Calvinists, because they believed Jews were elect simply based on their Jewish status, similar to how the Calvinists belief they were predestined from birth. Their following the Law was simply was Jews did because they were Jews. You quote from the Psalms when you say “there is no one righteous, not one”. This is poetry, and it actually contrasts with what the OT says in the narrative portions. It’s much more difficult to interpret poetry and it requires more context. Consider Moses in Deuteronomy saying “choose life” and that the Law was achievable. Consider also that God told Cain that sin was crouching at the door, and he had to master it. How do you reconcile these more straightforward narrative passages? Following the Law NEVER brought salvation after death. The Bible never says it. It instead was made for good moral living and to draw people to God with the promise of eventual salvation (through the promised Messiah). That’s exactly what Jesus is. He is the culmination of the implicit promise of the Law. Righteous Jews before Jesus correctly believed God would save them, but it was never a reward for obeying the Law. Consider another thing: is faith a work? And would it have been considered a work by 1st century Jews? The answer to both questions is clearly no. The Hebrew culture is action oriented, and the Greek idea that thought and mental reasoning counts as action (work) would be foreign to them. Faith is passive. It is the mental acknowledgement/belief that Jesus is Messiah. That’s it. My good works accomplish not my salvation, but they are a humble gift for my Messiah. I hope to receive a crown as a reward someday so that I will have something to cast to the feet of Jesus.
@@noahsd How can they not be? Both start with a false premise of God electing people to be Saved. God never elected anyone to Salvation... He elects people to servitude and or blessings, and always for the benefit of others. Example would be Jesus. Jesus is God's elect. Jesus sacrificed Himself for the world. God elected Israel... and through Israel, the ability to be Saved was given to all men... etc. Both are false doctrines and they are both unbiblical.
@@eiontactics9056 God has to have chosen people. If he didn't, he is not God. 1 peter spells this out nicely. And where did you get the idea he does this for others? Everything is for Gods glory.
@@noahsd God "has to have chosen people"? First, chosen for what? Secondly, you said that God must do something or He is not God? Are you okay with telling God what He can or can not do? Also... this reasoning makes absolutely no sense. I got the idea that God elects people for others in the Bible. God elected Jesus... for what? To save the world. God elected the Apostles... for what? To preach the Gospel to others. God elected Isreal... for what? To show the world that we can not work for our salvation, and to crucify Jesus so that the whole world can be saved. So on and so forth. God's glory is in His love and mercy for us! God created us in His image, and He wills for us to have a loving relationship with Him and share His Glory with Him for all eternity.
i was a Arminian for years because i didnt know better. Calvinism is Biblical Christianity. The Bible proves that over n over again. I feel bad for people who dont see that.
Sadly, the God of calvinists is a strange God. A dictator. Even a liar. John 3, 16 talks about a different order. First faith then eternal life and it clearly states the whole world. Also in the following verses.
Neither view is correct.. The problem is that people have been made to believe that these are the only choices if one doesn't believe Catholicism is correct either.. The bible doesn't confirm any of these choices ..
The Bible clearly teaches the doctrine of election/predestination, an elect people of God, the total inability of mans will to choose God, and the salvation of Gods people being secured in Christ. We don’t need the label, but it’s just a summarized way of explaining scripture.
@@matthaschanged it certainly does not plainly teach TULIP in scriptures anywhere my friend...Nowhere in Scripture does it say one is predestined to believe in CHRIST.. One is predestined to the adoption after believing though.. I believe this is where Calvinist conflate things when there is no reason or evidence to do so.. As far as total inability , there isn't any evidence for that either.. Yes I believe Scripture on how despicable man is but I don't see anywhere in Scripture that's says he can't realize it and call on THE NAME OF THE LORD upon hearing the gospel .. THE HOLY SPIRIT rebukes the world of sin through the gospel , nowhere does it say that HE forces one to believe. Take a look at this verse my friend , Romans 5 : 18.. All means all in condemnation and all means all in the free gift..same word pantas is used for the word all in Greek in both occurrences of the word...
@@cecilspurlockjr.9421 please explain John 6:44, Romans 9:15, Ephesians 2:8-9, and many other Scriptures. I believe the true tainted aspect is the way that these theologies are used. They seem to be used as a way to explain rather than to glorify. For example, Arminianism, in my humble opinion, is used to glorify the man in all that he can add to his salvation. This is all for not, as man has nothing he can add to his salvation or convince God that he is holy and righteous for a right standing with God. Calvinism, again in my humble opinion, glorifies the Lord in the way that he has saved us from our depraved and retched state of rebellion and hatred towards the Father. Praise be to God that He has opened our eyes to Him. For He does these things for His glory alone. A works based faith such as Arminianism is so contrary to the teachings of Christ. Even the teaching that one may leave the faith and his own accord is highly contrary to the written Word of the Gospels.
I think that some people love their "Theology more than they love Jesus and others." The Body of Christ is bigger than what some may think or teach! We can be brothers & sisters without being "Identical Twins."
I doubt there are many, if any people, who believe that. Personally, I think OSAS is dangerous in light of the Parable of the Unforgiving Servant, Hebrews 6, or James 2 (faith without works is dead). I won't call it heresy, but there are many people that made a true profession of faith and still fell away.
@@charliedontsurf334 also the unprofitable servant, the servant who decided to beat his servants and and sleep and drink around (Luke 12:45), the unforgiving servant, etc most of jesus teaching refer to preservering and abiding and if u don’t abide u will be thrown to the wayside or trampled on the same way u trample on the son of man when u deliberately go on sinning after recieving his grace
1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. If God desires for all men to be saved, then why would he only elect a certain amount of men? It is my understanding that God attempts to draw all men to him, but only some answer the call; and those that answer the call are the elect that he foreknew would accept.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 3:10-11 however, Sir. Ephesians 2:8-10. A good question to study would be, did Christ die to save sinners? Or to make them "save-able"? Scripture would contend that Jesus' work on the cross was effective to save, and did save.
Essentially, people who waste their time on this issue displease God. Rather than paying attention to what Jesus says, they jabber on endlessly. Read what Jesus says in Mt. 25.31-46, Luke 10.25-37, and three times in Ezekiel; Chapter 3, Chapter 18, and Chapter 33. This is sufficient to warn you against playing word games.
Calvinists, I'm genuinely interested in how you would answer these questions: - Are all who hear the gospel given a bona fide offer of saving grace (given a chance to repent and believe the Lord Jesus)? No: - So then is it true that hell is occupied by people who have not been offered salvation? - How is God loving if he offers some sinners saving grace, but doesn't offer it to other equally as undeserving sinners? Yes: - Is saving grace irresistible? > No - not a calvinist/reformed > Yes - So then if all are given a genuine offer of saving grace, but noone is able to resist an offer of saving grace, why aren't all people saved? Also, how do you square grace being irresistible with Acts 7:51 which indicates we are able to resist the work of the Spirit?
1. Yes, there are people in hell who have not been offered salvation... 2. Governors and presidents have the right to pardon criminals... we wouldn't say that a president was unloving for not pardoning all criminals, would we?
@@johnscotland3124 Thanks for the response! 1. Is it strange that God would condemn people to hell whom he never gave a chance to be saved? How would that square with John 12:48 and Matt 25:31-46 which indicate that these people were given a chance and it is also a rejection of Christ that brings final judgement upon a person. 2. I think we would say that, for any two criminals who truly both committed the exact same crime, a governor would be unloving if he offers a pardon to just the one and not the other. Our conception that selective presidential pardons are normal and good and blanket pardons are not is tainted by the fact that usually these pardons are done only in instances of malsentencing or when the sentence is grossly more severe than deserts of the crime. However, this doesn't happen with sin. Nobody is malsentenced for sin or given a more severe punishment than deserved for their sin. We all have the same sentence just like scenario I described above. Again, in a perfect world without malsentencing, if a governor were to pardon at all, it seems he would only be loving if he offered a pardon to every criminal. Otherwise the governor would be unloving to offer a pardon to only a select few and not the others. This would be best illustrated if a president, for example, does NOT offer pardon someone who committed the exact same crime with exactly the same surrounding legal context as a person he does offer pardon. This would clearly be unloving.
@@343jonny I would disagree that one person being pardoned over another for the same crime is unloving... and I'm rather confused by your saying that it would be.
@@johnscotland3124It's quite obvious that you believe that, but why? Everything being exactly the same between two prisoners and the governor being equally as capable of offering pardon to both, for what reason would a governor then offer pardon to only one? Only because he doesn't love the other. And no, a sufficient reason for why he doesn't offer a pardon to the other criminal is not "it's a mystery".
@@johnscotland3124 do you realize God have free will and we was made by His image? There are differences kind of grace. E.g: rain, just and unjust...?
They are both correct. God Elects ... this is clear. Man has genuine responsibility this is clear. How does this fit together??? Knowbody knows. If pushed I'm definitely a calvanist in the end. You cannot deny the Elect, as it is mentioned in the bible very clearly.
God never elects unconditionally anyone to be Saved and some to be damned before the foundation of the world. BOTH are false doctrines. It is a false dichotomy. Don't fall into the trap. God elects people to serve and or to blessings...not to salvation. He "elects" certain people to serve Him for others. Like Jesus, Isreal, and those who believe in Christ for the purpose to serve Him for others (example, to preach the Gospel to all men so that they might be saved). He elects the faithful in Christ to be holy and without blame (a spiritual blessing), etc.
@@eiontactics9056 I don't think that's what the Bible is actually saying. "You don't believe because you are not one of my sheep". The ultimate question is simply this "where does faith come from". Is it a gift from God, or does the sinner dead in his trespasses generate it??? Why do people go to hell??? You think people believe of their own choice, so they are just smarter than people who don't believe?? You cannot ignore election it is in the Bible in black and white, however much we wish it were different.
@@friendyadvice2238 Faith isn't a thing or a work. It happens when you are introduced to truth. The Bible never says that Faith is a gift from God, His grace and Salvation is a gift from God through faith in Christ. A sinner who is a slave to sin, when introduced to the Truth of Christ has the ability to realize and acknowledge that they are sinners and need a Saviour. People go to hell because instead of owning up to being a sinner and repenting and believing in Christ, they would rather continue in their own ways and lifestyle. Everyone is responsible for if they believe or not. Nobody has an excuse, because God has sufficiently given everyone ample means to know Him and His love. It does not mean that anyone is smarter than another so to speak. It just means that some people choose to reject God for various reasons and others choose to accept Him. Simple as that. You are right! The Bible is very clear on this issue.
@@eiontactics9056 yes but you still have the same basic question ... why do some believe and some not believe?? What drives that choice??? "No one can come to me unless my Father draws him" .... so by default all cannot be draw otherwise all would be saved. The issue is what is the limiting factor? Who limits it?
@@friendyadvice2238 No... "draw" here just means like an affectionate attraction. It also says CAN come, which implies the ability to come, not some irresistible force. He was also talking about that particular time when He was still on earth in the process of fulfilling the prophecy. This is why in John 12 He says that if He is lifted up from the earth, He will draw all men to Himself. When Jesus was still living, the truth of Him was not available to everyone... only those who did not become self righteousness and knew the Father would be attracted / drawn to Jesus at that time. Also, the issue of Universalism is the problem of the Calvinist. They redefine the word draw in John 6 to support their false doctrine... but then it contradicts John 12... so then they have to change and twist the word "all" in John 12 when it is unnecessary. Draw does not mean irresistible grace. God does not force you to believe in Christ.
The biggest problem is the definition of "free will". Man does not have ultimate free will. We do not will our hearts to beat. We can't freely avoid the laws of physics, the conditions of our birth, our past, etc. We only have the free ability to control our intentions. Our paths are set by God. God, however, does not judge our path but our intentions. God judges the heart and knows we are but dust. Thus the need for a Savior.
God has chosen who he will save before the foundation of the earth. It’s not really a free will choice, god saves and does all things according to his will. ✝️🙏
People claim that these 5 points are disputable, but if you look more closely; they are not. One view holds that salvation can be lost through willful faithlessness and apostasy, the other view holds that you cannot and will not lose salvation, unless you never had it to begin with. If the former view is true, then followers of Christ have a responsibility to maintain and nourish their faith and the cost of failing to do so whether partially or fully may result in eternal damnation regardless of any former faith and belief in Christ. If the latter is true, then followers of Christ need never concern themselves with the eternal risk of damnation so long as their initial faith and belief in Christ was genuine. As you can see, this is of critical importance because Calvinists will acknowledge that we do not have a license to sin, yet they believe that an abuse of such a concept does not have any bearing on your salvation. Christ had a lot to say to established Christians about repentance and eternal life. He warned each of the seven major churches of Asia in Revelations of the consequences of failing to repent, no matter how righteous or observant they may have previously been or currently be in their faith. This is further solidified in the end of Revelation, where we are warned that if we remove from the prophecies of Revelation that we will be removed from the Book of Life (or rather that the fruit of the Tree of Life will be taken from us). Many biblical scholars have properly noted that something can not be taken away from you if you don’t first have it. Other biblical scholars claim that this merely is stating that whatever opportunity you may have had will be lost, but this is further refuted when you note that Calvinists believe that your salvation is both predetermined and eternally secure (which would imply that neither of the above interpretations are logical and the warning Christ gave was irrelevant). Edit: the above point is my primary focus, but I’d like to add that my personal opinion is that the five points of Calvinism are unreasonable when we consider the importance that Christ placed on sharing his gospel; if our ministry has no bearing or impact on any individuals salvation, which is predetermined and secure, then why should we bother spending our time sharing his word? Why bother correcting brothers and sisters of the church and calling them to repentance? Why bother learning and practicing the commandments of Christ? The imperative nature of the gospel is reduced to what could be called “a list of beneficial recommendations”. Perhaps what drives a Calvinist to serve God faithfully is merely the extra rewards they will receive in Heaven, or perhaps they do it because of a sense of duty, but they cannot and must not do it for the sake of any person’s salvation because it is, according to the five points, predetermined and eternally secure.
Firstly, pre-destination is a false doctrine created by the devil to give God a bad image of being unfair and hating humans. This false doctrine gives some humans pride where they think they are better than others by default so they have a license to sin whereas Jesus said in Luke 13:3 “Unless you repent you will likewise perish” (See also 1 Corinthians 6:9)
Only Adam and Eve had true free will. After the Fall every human is prisoned in sin an has only free will in his sin. No one Haß the ability to choose god from his own. In the whole bible it's good who elects. Read Romans 3 brother
CUT TO THE CHASE: When Jesus died on the cross He died for "ALL" human beings and He is not "willing" that any should be lost. The BIBLE is clear on this, read it - John 3:16 and 2 Peter 3:9. (And there are many more CLEAR texts on this topic of "ALL." The Original NT Greek word for "All" means "All" not some, or few.) I am a Bible-Believing Christian who got Saved by placing my Faith (Trust) in God's Love for me expressed through His Son Jesus paying the death penalty for my sins. He changed my life forever. I think that some people love their "Theology more than they love Jesus and others." The Body of Christ is bigger than what some may think or teach! We can be brothers & sisters without being "Identical Twins."
The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
Calvinism is totally biblical. If you really believe in the bible, you'd become a Calvinist. Just read the book of Ephesians, Romans 3,6 and 9, John 6 and 10 and then give your thoughts
I don’t think there’s only two choices. I found a 3rd choice/view on the subject matter. Curious what you guys think of this video The Church's 2-Party Blunder: Calvinism & Arminianism by UGChurch
Here's my third choice: The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
CUT TO THE CHASE: When Jesus died on the cross He died for "ALL" human beings and He is not "willing" that any should be lost. The BIBLE is clear on this, read it - John 3:16 and 2 Peter 3:9. (And there are many more CLEAR texts on this topic of "ALL." The Original NT Greek word for "All" means "All" not some, or few.) I am a Bible-Believing Christian who got Saved by placing my Faith (Trust) in God's Love for me expressed through His Son Jesus paying the death penalty for my sins. He changed my life forever. I think that some people love their "Theology more than they love Jesus and others." The Body of Christ is bigger than what some may think or teach! We can be brothers & sisters without being "Identical Twins."
God's Sovereignty shadows over one view vs the other! I believe both have strong points that only counter the other making it more difficult to grasp God's divine message of Salvation.
The Bible doesn’t say to accept Christ but to follow Him. You can believe in God but if you don’t follow Christ and arent obedient then you are still missing out on what being a Christian is.
@@matthaschanged John 12:32 King James Version 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. Also... stop being lazy and read the Bible in full context. Read the very next verse in John 6! John 6:45 King James Version 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. You Calvinists are so blind and lost! You call yourselves "Christians" but you are blind to the Scriptures and you don't even know the Gospel! I will pray for you! Repent of your Calvinism (which means acknowledge your sin and turn from it), and believe in Jesus Christ! The Biblical Jesus... the one who died for all men.
@@michaelspears4488 He didn't exactly lie. Calvin was an ungodly heretical murderer. He also somehow influenced Calvinism... a false religion that fools unknowing victims into thinking they are Christians and they are saved... when all it is doing is preaching a perverted gospel, God and Jesus and feeds on the pride of man... sending those people to hell and blinding them from the truth of Christ.
The two doctrines are parallel doctrines, you can't destroy one without destroying the other. I personally lean toward 5 point Calvinism, because of my former life as a Roman Catholic, when my 3 older sisters, told me that Jesus came to live in my heart, I believed at that very moment that it was true, 1948. I left RC the day I entered my first Logging camp at age 17, that's when I began a crazy alcoholic life, following my 9year older Bro. Sobered up 1980 AA, learned much about who God is, like never before, by the AA program. 15 years worth in depth. 1995 received a bible from 2nd ex-wife, then found a Pentecostal church, 'til 2010, re-married and we became what we call Reform doctrine as in Bible only. When I look at the history, Jacobus was a Calvinist as well, then peeled off with a small band of people that agreed with him, during the councils of Dort, etc. Now this tribe has the origins of Arminianism, which I've found most protestants don't have a clue who Jacobus Arminius was, or that they are one of his,..... tongue in cheek. I've always been a very slow learner and at age of 80 I'm sticking to the Reform doctrine, which people like to call Calvinism. I love the preaching of John MacArthur, and many of the Pastors that came through the Masters Theology school. (California) I believe this doctrine has put me on the most secure path I've ever been on, with more freedom that I've ever experienced in my very sinful life. I consider Arminians my brothers and sisters in Christ. God bless you one and all, in Christ's name. Amen. FROM CANADA.
Think this through. This one verse (there are many others) refutes hyper Calvinism; Matthew 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen." If Calvinism were true, the verse would/must simply say, "Few are called and those few are chosen." If God calls many and ONLY few are chosen, that absolutely implies that some who are called, refuse to come. Hence, they made a CHOICE to refuse God's calling.
@@Mike-qt7jpJohn 15:16 and following, You did not choose me I chose you. Ephesians 2 and following. I found you dead. (We were given life by grace not by works of choosing.) Being called is the complete wonder of Genesis and the universe around us, even atheists see the wonder, but refuse to credit it to the Almighty God. These folks have become gods unto themselves, which is the essence of the original sin. When a true Christian knows he is made in God's image, he knows he can not become the Devine as God, like Lucifer thought he could do. The best he got was prince of the power of the air, and now faces eternal wide awake death. We on the other hand are becoming like unto Christ, but not to become divine. All our good works are not good works unto salvation but unto God's glory. These works were set before us in eternity past to accomplish. We will miss doing "all" those works, but the good news is, The Lord will complete us just as we step through the veil of the first death. Then we'll see Christ as He really is and we'll be like Him, though not as Divine God. My Question to true Christian Arminian Protestants is what's the worry if you received the gospel in your heart of John 3:16. The key Word there is the WHO-SO-EVER are the chosen. I'm sure many people say and read those Words and believe in their head, but does not reach the heart. I think those are the people that will say didn't we prophecy in your name, cast out demons etc. and Jesus says depart from me I never knew you. Matt.7:21 and following. Ephesians 1:4 I called you in eternity past. Mike think some of these things through, and there is very much more. Those people who refused weren't chosen, because they were never regenerated. I know many atheists that never chose Christ. When I was an out of control drinking, fornicating, Adulterer, fighting, lying, thieving cheating maniac, I was called a demon and a devil many times. But when the Lord told me to stand on my feet 43 years ago and told me I never had to drink alcohol or do drugs again as long as I lived, it has never from that day to this occurred to me to lift a glass or take a drug, no matter how rough things have been in my life. Being a true Christian is not in my lowly opinion for the feint of heart, its a struggle all the way, "good news", I don't have an ounce of credit in the least, for making it thus far, it's Christ and the full glory of our God and the work of Christ's death, and the life He gave. I've never been more free in my life as I am today at 80 yrs. young. I have total freedom to sin or do good which ever I choose, that leaves nothing out. I'm not my own, but a slave to Christ Jesus. Sooo when I stumble and I do, the chastening is very painful, fearful, and shameful. When experienced the after effects to come are restoring, soothing, hopeful, and joyful and very assuring that I'm one of His. This is a very small snippet of my testimony. I have to say when I hear people speak violently about Calvinism, though I don't call myself Calvinist, it always helps me to grow stronger in my personal weakness. I'm subject to learn more about our Lord and my personal walk with Christ. I think as usual I went on a bit to long, excuse me for that, I only wish for the full joy of the Lord for you brother in Christ. Amen. ❤✌🙏
What I'd like to know is this: Am I a 5-point Calvinist, a 3-point Calvinist, a 2-point Arminian or a 5-point Arminian? I believe God knew before any of us were born, who would be saved and who would be lost. I don't believe God decided before any of us were born, who would be saved and who would be lost. I believe we are born totally selfish and that if or when any of us desires God it is because he first draws us. I believe we are saved by grace alone through faith alone, not by our decisions - i.e. God's grace is the source and means of salvation, our faith is the vehicle or conduit of God's grace and our faith is God's gift to us - not our gift to him. I believe there are at least three facets or aspects of salvation: Justification (God's forgivness), sanctification (personal holiness) and glorification. I believe justification is by grace alone through faith alone - there is nothing we can do or hope to do or promise to do to earn or deserve God's forgiveness. I believe sanctification is by grace alone through faith alone. We "co-operate" with him in the sense that he will not transform us without our permission but it isn't partly his work and partly ours. I believe the purpose of the return of Jesus is to resurrect the people who have died in faith and take living beleivers with them to the mansions he has gone to prepare. (John 14:1-3; I Corinthians 15:51-54; I Thessalonians 4:13-18) We are currently living in the kingdom of grace AND the kingdom of glory will begin when we are glorified and given the gift of immortality at the time of his return. The kingdom of grace isn't a political kingdom and neither will the kingdom of glory be a political kingdom. The kingdom of glory will not come to Earth as a result of anything we can do or will do - it will be inaugurated suddenly, miraculously and cataclysmically. The greatest question in the univrse is how it should be ruled. God's way is love. Satan's way is coercion. Our function during the thousand-year reign will be in a judicial capacity - not in an executive capacity enforceing God's laws. (And enforcement isn't our role in the present either!) At the close of the millennium, the holy city, new Jerusalem, "the camp of the saints" will come down from God out of heaven, the finally impenetent will be resurrected, attack the city and be utterly destroyed, whereupon the Earth will be restored to its edenic beuaty and be the home of the saved forever.
Romans 9-11 has a very happy ending: "God has committed all to disobedience that he might have mercy on all ... From him and through him and to him are all things." (Romans 11:32,36a)
Thank you, this is what I have been coming to - that as you say, "Both systems fail, in that they attempt to explain the inexplainable." Exactly - where is irristible grace in the Bible? Where is prevenient grace? God is sovereign, and sovereignly gave us free will, and expects us to turn to Him and trust Him - and yet He knows, and He chooses.
If one is saved, I don't think he will go against the doctrine of Calvinism. When one comes to know that they are deprived, that's when faith in God comes into our hearts. That's how I experienced born again. The law is also a tool that brings us to Total DEPRAVITY, and in that state, we meet Jesus. All 5 points of Calvinism hold 👍.
Calvinists agree with this as RC Sproul did. Mankind is a free moral agent that can choose to sin or not to sin. The question is free will. Paul says only the freed person. This, for substance, was what Paul taught in Romans 6:16-23; only the freed will (Paul says, the freed person) freely and heartily chooses righteousness. Are wills to love and obey God was lost at the Fall.
Neither. Both are wrong. But typical of error, create the false dichotomy and then show the errors in the view you reject. Calvinists are masters at this and do it all the time. As you've just proven again. I have a lot less experience with Arminians but my limited experience seems to show they operate similarly. As do numerous other false beliefs such as conditionalism, extreme "free grace", extreme "lordship salvation", sinless perfectionism, antinomianism and the list goes on and on.
Arminianism is closer to Biblical Christianity, but, as you say, both are indeed wrong. Arminians basically believe Calvinism without the last 4 parts of TULIP, so they don't believe that God picked random individuals for salvation to the neglect of all others before the foundation of the world, that Christ's atonement was only for that specific group of individuals, that God's call cannot be resisted by the individuals He calls, or that those who truly believe at some point in their lives are incapable of apostasy and leaving the faith. They do, however, still embrace many of Calvin's teachings, such as the Augustinian model of Original Sin, developed by Calvin into the doctrine of Total Depravity.
Good point! The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. Stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. Go out there and preach the Gospel. Stop wasting your time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
Can a blind man choose to see and have sight? Can a deaf man choose to hear and able to hear? Can a dead man choose to live and have a life? Impossible. But with God all things are possible.
Right. The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
@@Just_in_Rich The Bible is correct. Your understanding of it is not. Go back and re-read Matthew 22. If you think “many are called but few are chosen” is a good counter point to my argument you clearly do not understand the text. In the Matthew 22 parable Jesus is actually teaching EXACTLY what I am saying. He lays out in excruciating detail how God chose the Jews first, but then also chose the Gentiles, so that everyone is chosen. At the end of his parable he uses the “many are called but few are chosen” line to sarcastically throw the Jews’ own line back in their faces. They used that line when they tried to further their argument that God loved only some people, them selves. But Jesus taught that God loved all people. His “many are called but few are chosen” means “all are invited, only some will respond”
People need to relax about this. Yes, they are slightly controversial theologies, but they aren’t saving theologies. Paul warns Christians about quarreling over useless controversies
Amen… it seems to me that those who argue about this topic.. don’t read the Bible at all.. at least not in submission to God and allowing the Holy Spirit to teach them
Free wheel isn’t a useless controvers. It’s a major lie about the Bible
@@aletheia8054 prove it
@@Fred-ur2sr If Jesus knows you’re going to hell then you can’t choose otherwise.
Spot on
I have moved far from my home and find myself between a Calvinistic & Arminianistic church. They both are preaching the gospel, preaching against sin, and preaching one God. Each have boldly opened up to me to share certain beliefs. Beliefs that go against the scriptures or have no basis in the scriptures at all. Is anyone else praying as I am? “Father! Your Church is so divided. We your children are confused and preaching false doctrines. We deny the salvation of others you gave your life for. Please bring harmony, let the Presbyterian worship with the Pentecostal, the Mennonite with the Baptist, the Calvinist with the Apostolics. Lord you are one God and have given us one Word. Let us love one another and humble ourselves to come to you for wisdom and not our corporations. If David could dance alone in the streets in gratitude for your mercies and favor then why should we be prohibited from raising our hands to heaven when we sing to you? If your apostles lived with very little possessions and without wealth then why must our Christian leaders have earthly treasures like real estate, boats, vacation homes, large salaries? God! Shake your Church. Let her fall to the ground in fear. Open our eyes to our foolishness.”
Amen
Amen Amen.
...
By the way 😊God bless you, your prayer is the most needed among Believers
Romans2v11 for God does not show favouritism
Amen!!
All I know is that I was once blind but now I see.
Predestination or free will? The answer is “yes”
Predestined for what? False dichotomy.
@@eiontactics9056 Revelation 13:8
English Standard Version
8 and all (A)who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in (B)the book of life of (C)the Lamb (D)who was slain.
Both are lol
@Soldier We must go by what God revealed His will is to us in the Bible! Not base His will off some false unbiblical doctrines that were derived from Manichaeanism, Stoicism and Gnosticism.
Also, who are you to tell God what He MUST do to be all powerful? I believe God is the one that teaches us what power, love, grace and mercy is. God is all powerful, but He is also loving, merciful, and just.
People tend to put God in a box and get stuck in vain philosophies and the traditions of men... they forget or are blind to what God plainly revealed about Himself in the Bible.
YES!
The Bible says that God is sovereign.
The Bible also says that man has free will.
God's sovereignty and man's free will
both work at the same time.
These two are not in contradiction.
People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism.
We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
When I embraced Christianity, I found it difficult to maintain these perspectives, as I discovered inherent inconsistencies within both doctrines that ultimately contradict biblical teachings. The Bible teaches both God's sovereignty and man's free will, why destroy what God has created beautifully. These truths are friends and not enemies, why separate them?
I believe that God knows our choices, and can work through them, but at the same time our choices are OUR choices. Both.
You don't understand the concept of God's sovereignty or libertarian free will to make the claim that these two things are compatible.
@@guyontheinternet8891 God CANNOT be ultimately sovereign if humans have full free will. What do you think ultimate sovereignty means?
There are things I disagree with about both views. I especially disagree with conditional salvation. I think Romans 8 makes it clear that nothing can ever cause a saved person to lose the gift God has already paid for. That doesn't mean that there won't be consequences for our unfaithfulness. Salvation is a gift not earned and sanctification is the process that begins after salvation. we all continue to sin after salvation. Sanctification is growing in holiness and is the road we walk in our mortal bodies desiring to be more like jesus.
The belief in "Conditional Salvation" isn't as presented in this video. "Conditional Salvation" is the belief that one must express their FAITH, TRUST and BELIEF in the PERSON and finished work of Jesus on the Cross as true and real. This is God's "Condition" for Biblical Salvation. Repentance & Faith are the clearly Biblical necessities for experiencing New Life. (Acts 2:38; 17:30)
@@vicrader9195 I agree with that. Salvation is by grace through faith. A repentant heart is the catalyst for salvation. Belief in the heart and confession by the tongue.
God's love is unconditional. I believe in predestination.
As long as there is a chance someone become unfaithful to God, like turning to other God, then you can lose the gift of salvation. Like why do you have to give someone a salvation if they doesn't even care or believe
@@mikel6792 Your view seems right to you because it seems like the right thing to do. But the law could never save us. It can only condemn us. Salvation is a one-time event. The Bible says nothing can ever separate us from the love of God once we have believed. There is a cost for falling away. But it’s not losing salvation.
I can only speak from experience. When I first decided to walk down the aisle of a small Christian non-denominational church and receive Jesus as my Lord and Savior I was completely ignorant when it came to the Bible or salvation for that matter.
I had come from a dirty background of alcohol, drugs, nightclubs, and one night stands. My faith at the time stood firm on science which up until that moment had been led by deep study into physics emphasizing on general relativity and quantum mechanics. I understood these concepts very well, but I also realized science couldn’t save my soul so that’s when I turned to the Word of God.
I had been raised a Catholic, by tradition not choice, but I never found real interest in religious dogma. To me their ritualistic approach to matters of faith were dull and boring, I was more interested in the pursuit of knowledge and wisdom.
After having received Jesus in Oct of 91, I was told by the pastor that I was now saved and on my way to Heaven; people really? That’s it? I didn’t feel any different, my thoughts, motives, and attitude remained the same. I decided that I wasn’t going to just take this pastor’s word, I was going to do my own homework. I had to, my soul and my eternal future depended on it and I was a person that needed absolute certainty!
I decided to purchase the King James Bible on CD and listen to it on all those wasted hours driving back and forth to work in rush hour traffic. Travel time to work was an hour, an hour lunch which I spent in my car eating a sandwich out of a small cooler, and the hour drive back home. That was 3 hours of Word a day 5 times per week. That’s a lot of Word! This went on for little over 3 years where not only did I have scores and scores of scriptures memorized, but also entire CHAPTERS memorized verbatim word for word. I could tell you what is in the Bible and what isn’t. I had a tremendous amount of Word in my head, not in my heart.
This would change one memorable Saturday morning March 25,1995. I was alone in my car at the beach listening to integrity Hosana Worship music, reading God’s Word, and loving Him with all my heart, mind, soul, and strength. I remember reading in Matthew chapter 5 to “love your enemies”, this was something I could never see myself doing! How can you possibly love someone that’s causing you harm? I don’t understand this kind of love! I looked up to the sky and let my imagination, which by now was overflowing with love, run wild as to how beautiful it would be to be just like Jesus!
Suddenly it happened, it really happened! I saw something open within my mind and all that Word I had accumulated for years poured into me removing the blinders from my eyes, causing my brain processes to skyrocket, and giving me the knowledge of God!
“Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my Spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.”
(Proverbs 1:23)
I was terrified! I literally felt the demons that lived in me and had been with me my entire life leap out of me with a hideous screech! How is this possible Lord, I thought, how can a mere man understand God? Scriptures began flooding my mind:
“My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee; So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding; Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.”
(Proverbs 2:1-5)
When I picked up the Bible and began reading it something was now very different. I had always read and listened to the Bible as a 3rd person, in other words, this apostle is writing to this other apostle, this scripture doesn’t apply to me. This is of course the mental BEAM spoken of by Jesus in Matthew chapter 7. For the very first time since I began my study of the scriptures did I realize the scriptures were speaking directly to me! The Words were like 3-D, a hologram! Who is this 3rd person I keep imagining? Every scripture, every parable I didn’t seem to understand was as plain as if I was reading a children’s book! This is when I could see the utter Perfection of God’s Word and the inerrancy of scripture. The only way to describe what had just happened to me was “HOLINESS” had entered me!
“The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.”
(Proverbs9:10)
So you may be asking yourself, how does my testimony relate to this video? Well it seems to me it’s quite obvious. There is only one Jesus, the one revealed in scripture. Jesus and the written Word are ONE AND THE SAME. There is no other way to God except through His Word! It is the Word that gives the reader the SPIRIT:
“It is the SPIRIT that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the WORDS that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are life.”
(John 6:63)
The fact is you must be BORN AGAIN of the Word:
“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the WORD OF GOD, which liveth and abideth for ever.”
(1 Peter 1:23)
When you read the following passage with those Words in 3-D jumping out of the pages you will come to the realization that the Bible is speaking of itself!
“I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by ME.”
(John 14:6)
So this argument of Calvinism vs Arminianism is settled, EVERYONE can approach the scriptures the way I did, and EVERYONE can love God the way did, and God will reveal Himself to whom ever He sees is ready to receive His Truth. So the question is not which one of these two views is correct, but rather how much is the individual willing to do to love and find God!
“If ye continue in my WORD, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the TRUTH, and the TRUTH shall make you FREE.”
(John 8:31-32)
thank you for sharing!
The Bible says that God is sovereign.
The Bible also says that man has free will.
God's sovereignty and man's free will
both work at the same time.
These two are not in contradiction.
People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism.
We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
Wow this is amazing! 🎉
Thanks for your testimony sir.
At the moment i am in deep search of truth. I've tried many sermons and preachers on UA-cam and such..
I admit I've searched little in the scripture.
Romans 9 has hit me so hard this week about my stand as an Arminian.
I still hold the belief that neither of the side saves a man but Christ and Faith in Him alone.
As much Calvinism says contrary view on this, I still believe it's true but again I lay myself helpless on this matter as I look for the Truth in the Holy Bible
@@kiruikipkorir702 seek God through His Word as true saving FAITH, comes only by hearing The Word:
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.”
(Romans 10:17)
This video was very helpful and gracious, thank you. Currently, I am doing a study on this topic, and haven't reached a conclusion yet. Prayerfully, I will continue to study and hope that I honor God through His Word.
Also studying and appreciate this video as I prayerfully consider each
The Bible says that God is sovereign.
The Bible also says that man has free will.
God's sovereignty and man's free will
both work at the same time.
These two are not in contradiction.
People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism.
We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
@@harveygitarista1600 Thank you for your comment. I appreciate the emphasis on the importance of preaching the gospel; I agree.
My point in learning about this topic is not to create divisions. Just because something's not a salvation issue doesn't mean it isn't important to look at. God has given us His word, and it is our responsibility to be heralds of His word. That means when he says things about how people are saved, I need to do my due diligence to prayerfully and faithfully handle what He says, so as to not misrepresent Him.
You are right that this should not be a focus -- to a point. I know of a ministry, as far as I know, where the entire focus is on trying to convince you of Arminianism. I disagree with that philosophy. The gospel is what God has given us to preach to the world, and it is good that you say that. Thank you, and may we all be faithful to our Savior.
If you’re still studying, I found a really helpful book! It’s called “The Potters Promise” by Leighton Flowers and is a biblical assessment of soteriology (study of salvation).
It’s so great!
@@harveygitarista1600 agreed!!
Fantastic conclusion! 3:30
I studied this deeply across the word of God a couple years ago and came to the same conclusion.
You don’t
The sovereign God created human beings /autonomous agents who can choose for themselves to obey Him or not. In this there's no contradiction
Calvinistic soveighty of God by definition denies that human beings are free autonomous agents that can choose for themselves. Oh most of them they don't admit the obvious contradiction and they attempt to explain how it is not!!!
Some, like this one, they admit the obvious contradiction but they tell you that we should live with that!!!
In the meantime in anyway they want to say it...they're saying that God is the author of sin and evil, Who have chosen to save some by giving Jesus only for these few and He prefers/to see the majority of humanity burn in hell, though Jesus's blood is enough for the whole world!!!
@@mariospontos5096
Calvinism does not deny free will, but it asserts that, left to himself, no person will freely choose salvation. The Bible is clear that the natural man is completely incapable of choosing God. In His sovereignty, God chooses to override the free will of some people, to open their eyes so that they can understand and embrace Jesus as their Savior. Is this fair? No. But it is just. You will search the Scriptures in vain for any hint that God is fair. In His parable of the vineyard owner, it was not fair that the owner paid those who worked only an hour the same as those who worked for twelve hours, but Jesus defended his right to do what he wanted with his own money. It is not fair that God chooses some and not all, but God does not owe salvation to anyone. Those who are not God's elect have no just cause for complaint because they get what they deserve, what they freely chose. That God, in His sovereignty and omniscience, chooses some does not mean that those who are not chosen have been treated unjustly. As Romans 9:22-24 says, "What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory-even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?" This is a rhetorical question. The answer is that God can do whatever He wants with whomever He wants.
It is curious to me how nobody ever argues against the doctrine of election from the Old Testament. Election in the Old Testament is so bold, so in your face, that nobody can doubt it. God chose Abraham, Abraham did not choose God. God chose Isaac and Jacob. God chose Moses to be His servant and prophet, and He chose Pharaoh to be His enemy. I know from my personal experience that there is no difference between my free will and God's sovereign will, and this is clearly shown in the life of Pharaoh. The text records that sometimes God hardened Pharaoh's heart, sometimes Pharaoh hardened his own heart, and sometimes the text simply says that his heart was hardened without specifying an agent. The argument that the command to choose necessitates the ability to choose is a philosophical argument, not a Biblical argument.
Consider the Lamb's Book of Life in the Book of Revelation. The names of God's elect were written in that book before God created the universe. Do not be confused by Revelation 3:5. That passage does not speak of anybody's name being blotted out of the Book of Life; it speaks only of people not being blotted out of the Book of Life. Any assertion that a statement about people not being blotted out of the Book of Life necessitates some names being blotted out is an inference not justified by a careful reading of the text.
When Calvin died, Jacobus was only 4 years old, had not even gone to pre-school! Wished they were born round about the same time so that they could have debated their ideas!!😂
Was thinking the same thing
Indeed. The "Change My Mind"s would be most helpful to us in this time.
No, it is not a "change my mind" play. Only the elect understand about election. Calvin would have labored in vain to persuade a man with old Pelagian heresy.
calvin himself wasn't a calvinist. it was his follower bizel who developed this false teaching
No debate needed.
The Bible says that God is sovereign.
The Bible also says that man has free will.
God's sovereignty and man's free will
both work at the same time.
These two are not in contradiction.
People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism.
We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
Call me crazy but none of this sounds contradictory to me. Actually, it seems like they are both true, just looking from different angles. I think people often times believe they are disagreeing with one another when really they’re not. Just a humble observation
interesting view!
Exactly what I was going to say! Sometimes I wonder why each group is at each other's throats. Both sides are right, they are just seeing things from different perspectives. And that's why the narrator of this video said no one can truly explain God away. Especially with logic.
You might be right. I just think Christians need to spend their time and mental capacities on more important matters. Evangelism is going to be IMPOSSIBLE if we keep convoluting the message of repentance through Christ alone.
@@vinniebasile9404 I agree. Too many "Isms".
Nah if you are Calvinist
And believes God pass over people
Or created people to throw them to hell
You need mental treatment
Also you doesn't believe God is fair
And Good God
I love your summary at the end. Perfect. Does not matter at the end of the day as long as we make sure not to harden our hearts when he hear his call and to be obedient and persevere to the end. Both views hold truth but I doubt any has it all right. God would have made it super clear what election means if he wanted us to know everything. some mysteries will only be revealed in heaven.
Firstly, pre-destination is a false doctrine created by the devil to give God a bad image of being unfair and hating humans. This false doctrine gives some humans pride where they think they are better than others by default so they have a license to sin whereas Jesus said in Luke 13:3 “Unless you repent you will likewise perish” (See also 1 Corinthians 6:9)
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363
Pride is exactly what the doctrine of predestination does not produce. Rather, it produces a sense of wonder, "Given that there is absolutely nothing in me to commend me to God, why did He choose me?" It is unbelief in the doctrine of predestination that produces pride. "There was some measure of wisdom and understanding in me that other people don't have because I had the good sense to respond to the gospel." But neither Christians who believe in predestination nor Christians who don't think that they have a license to sin.
" Salvation is of the Lord. " Jonah 2:9
If you are drowning in the sea and if one throws you a rope (Grace) for you to hold on to, and then you respond and hold on to it and then he pulls you to safety, then who saved you? Your friend saved you by the rope (grace).
If you refuse to hold on to the rope and then if you die and perish, who is responsible for your death?
Your friend is not going to force you to catch the rope. He is not going to throw a net and catch you, if you do not want to be saved.
Finally, "He that is of the truth, heareth My voice" - Sweet Jesus.
The problem with the rope story is the man in the water is already dead so he can’t grab the rope. Jesus said we are spiritually dead so unless God calls us and awakens our spirit we will not wake up
God give us ALL a thrashing when we open our eyes to life in eternity. Cause our hearts to ache and our eyes to pour tears for the damage we have done in the name of doctrine. Show us the lives lost to hell due to our bickering, fighting, hypocrisy, and arguing.
This was very well put together.
We are completely responsible for our actions and at the exact same time everything is predetermined by God. We choose God because He chose us. We can accept that but we can never comprehend it because the finite mind cannot comprehend God.
Charles Simeon (Calvinist) and John Wesley (Arminian):
[Simeon] Sir, I understand that you are called an Arminian; and I have been sometimes called a Calvinist; and therefore I suppose we are to draw daggers. But before I consent to begin the combat, with your permission I will ask you a few questions. Pray, Sir, do you feel yourself a depraved creature, so depraved that you would never have thought of turning to God, if God had not first put it into your heart?
[Wesley] Yes, I do indeed.
[Simeon] And do you utterly despair of recommending yourself to God by anything you can do; and look for salvation solely through the blood and righteousness of Christ?
[Wesley] Yes, solely through Christ.
[Simeon] But, Sir, supposing you were at first saved by Christ, are you not somehow or other to save yourself afterwards by your own works?
[Wesley] No, I must be saved by Christ from first to last.
[Simeon] Allowing, then, that you were first turned by the grace of God, are you not in some way or other to keep yourself by your own power?
[Wesley] No.
[Simeon] What then, are you to be upheld every hour and every moment by God, as much as an infant in its mother’s arms?
[Wesley] Yes, altogether.
[Simeon] And is all your hope in the grace and mercy of God to preserve you unto His heavenly kingdom?
[Wesley] Yes, I have no hope but in Him.
[Simeon] Then, Sir, with your leave I will put up my dagger again; for this is all my Calvinism; this is my election my justification by faith, my final perseverance: it is in substance all that I hold, and as I hold it; and therefore, if you please, instead of searching out terms and phrases to be a ground of contention between us, we will cordially unite in those things where in we agree.
So, Wesley won.
Christ died for "ALL" People. People choose if they want to serve Christ.
Everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved - Romans 10:13 Try explaining that without adding to the words of God
But the next verse says how can you call if he doesn’t believe.
Therefore unbelievers don’t call
We can all agree that our feeble inept mortal minds will never comprehend the complexities of Gods sovereignty and how scripture interprets it. That’s how we know the Bible is divine inspired, if it made sense with no contradictions then it is possible to be man made. However there is a Great mystery that is so infinite in glory that it will take an eternity for us to grasp
@@aletheia8054 the next verse says How can they believe if they have not heard the word of God.
The word of God produces Faith. And faith is what is needed to receive God's Grace.
@@joeydaniel3053 I witnessed to People every day. Almost all of them don’t believe after they hear it.
So simply hearing it doesn’t do anything
@@joeydaniel3053 If grace means unmerited favor why would you have to do something to receive unmerited favor. That defeats the whole point of it being unmerited favor.
Love is impossible without freewill. Calvinists think God is less God if He does not control all aspects of human existence. He does not need puppets. He welcomes us into his family, but you can choose to walk away. If not, then the relationship is not love.
God doesn't need our love though.
@@TheFinalJigsaw Never said that He does. God needs nothing. He chose to create us for our benefit. We get the joy of eternal life with our Creator. Learning from the Creator how to truly love.🙂
The Bible says that God is sovereign.
The Bible also says that man has free will.
God's sovereignty and man's free will
both work at the same time.
These two are not in contradiction.
People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism.
We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
@@harveygitarista1600 I almost agree with you fully. Debate is an important part of life. Hard to get 3 people to agree, try billions of people. You said ..."We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions"... uuummm sounds like your wasting time giving your side of an "unnecessary" division.
Just saying.👍👍
I literally cannot choose to walk away because I have no desire to walk away. Just like I can't choose to stop enjoying the taste of my favorite foods or the sounds of my favorite music. These things are out of my hands
"In the essentials unity, in the non-essentials liberty, in all things charity"-Rupertus Meldenius
If Calvinism is true, it means that God creates disposable people, people without any hope,” “It means that God not only allows, but micro-manages and sovereignly ordains, every war and every abortion and every rape of a child. It means that Calvin’s god does not love the world; he hates it because it is full of “totally depraved” individuals having apparently created us that way for his own glorification, or is it for his amusement? If Calvinism is true , it means that if that dying child that you held in your arms was not among the elect, then God did not love her. He never had any intention of loving her. She was nothing to Him. In fact, he would delight and find glory in her eternal torture in hell.”
Who are really created in the image of then, God or satan?
“And whenever I raise these points with Calvinists, all they can say is that I should be more grateful for my own salvation! It’s like, ‘as long as my eternal destiny is secure, as long as my life is all planned out and taken care of by God, who gives a damn about family, friends or anyone else!’ How can you be okay with that? How can anyone be okay with that? Why do I feel find this heresy morally offensive?” Only the devil should be at ease with such an abomination!
According to Calvinism the lost hate God because God first hated them. They won't say it that way, but that's what it boils down to.
Romans 16 : 17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.
Good point!
The Bible says that God is sovereign.
The Bible also says that man has free will.
God's sovereignty and man's free will
both work at the same time.
These two are not in contradiction.
People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism.
We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
"The lost hate God because God first hated them". That was heavy !!!! 😱😱 thank you for your comment. Arminianism is the correct view
@@klismannviana2514 It is my belief that man atheists who declare "God is evil!" grew up in a Calvinist household, or at least they were only exposed to Calvinism. Unrelated, but I have Dutch heritage, so I find it really cool that the man I base my theology on was Dutch too!
Proverbs 16:4
The Lord has made all for Himself,
Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.
Excellent presentation! The truth is that even though both systems fail, God's Word is true! You don't have to come down on either side. Just believe what the Bible says!
I tend towards Calvinism because, the older I get, the more I realize that my faith in Christ, and my preservation and growth in faith, has been and is, from first to last, a gift and work of God. God’s decision for me and God’s election of me is everything. Whatever decision or choice I have made fades into irrelevancy before God’s gracious and underserved election of me. I especially treasure the Calvinistic teaching about the “preservation of the saints.” When we say “To God be the glory”, we have to mean ALL the glory.
Now having said that, I have heard Dr. Sproul (whom I greatly respect) preach sermons not far off from what Billy Graham would preach, calling and beseeching people to put all their trust in Christ. The only real difference is that Dr. Sproul and other Calvinists don’t have an altar call.
Bottom line for me as a preacher - Believe like a Calvinist; preach like an Arminian ( without the altar call). Let God quietly do his work in the human heart as he wills.
IMO, the idea of preaching trust in Christ is more about gospel correction than going arminian. Instead of earning salvation by being good boy and quitting smoking etc, to try to earn what your faith in Christ should reward you with, trust in Christ is the admission that there IS no atonement, even partially, and the blood does literally all the work, immediately. The quitting smoking and being good boy can (or maybe not?) come later through sanctification and conformity to Christ, as fruits that simply show evidence of your faith to your brethren, and as witness to the unbeliever.
Whose idea was the altar call? Are baptists the only ones who practice this?
I've downloaded john gill bible commentary free on Google play he's a Calvinst and adam clarke he's Armenian I love read both of them do think I should stop reading commentarys and just read nowt but the bible.
Sorry, friend, but you seem extremely misinformed as to what Arminians believe.
I completely agree with the conclusion of this video!
Calvinists: "God is Sovereign"
Me: "That word you keep using, I do not think it means what you think it means" -Inigo Montoya
Right!? Calvinists say "Sovereign" all the time but then when I ask them what they mean by it... it is a completely different definition of Sovereignty and actually contradicts Sovereignty. God can not be Sovereign if He can ONLY be Sovereign in a world where He has to meticulously control every molecule or it could thwart His plans. Calvinists have a weak unbiblical god.
I think that some people love their "Theology more than they love Jesus and others." The Body of Christ is bigger than what some may think or teach! We can be brothers & sisters without being "Identical Twins."
This is why it's important to renew your mind. When we do that, we understand what He has declared in His Word, rather then diverting to Calvinism or Armenianism
You wanna get stuck in the weeds? Pick a theology to die on. Getting wrapped up on intellectual self indulgence is a waste of time. Might I dare say a sin! Keep it simple. God is sovereign. Christ died for our sins. Follow & practice the teachings & love one another. We have had enough to argue about.
You came up with the best answer this this question I have ever heard.
Neither one. Arminius actually affirmed a lot of Calvinism. Don't let either fool you.
CUT TO THE CHASE: When Jesus died on the cross He died for "ALL" human beings and He is not "willing" that any should be lost. The BIBLE is clear on this, read it - John 3:16 and 2 Peter 3:9. (And there are many more CLEAR texts on this topic of "ALL." The Original NT Greek word for "All" means "All" not some, or few.)
I am a Bible-Believing Christian who got Saved by placing my Faith (Trust) in God's Love for me expressed through His Son Jesus paying the death penalty for my sins. He changed my life forever.
I think that some people love their "Theology more than they love Jesus and others." The Body of Christ is bigger than what some may think or teach! We can be brothers & sisters without being "Identical Twins."
All? Can you explain Join 10:25-30?
I was Arminian for 40 years. Then, God removed my stupidity, and I will be Calvinist forevermore! Thank God!
I definitely agree with pieces of both.
Best Calvinist versus Arminian video ever.
One way to think of it is that Calvinism believes God is completely and ultimately sovereign over His creation, while Arminianism believes man's free will is preeminent over God's sovereignty.
The Bible says that God is sovereign.
The Bible also says that man has free will.
God's sovereignty and man's free will
both work at the same time.
These two are not in contradiction.
Stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism.
Go out there and preach the Gospel. Stop wasting your time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
Arminianism does not hold that free will is preeminent over God in any way, shape, or form. Sovereignty =/= determinism.
That is not accurate. Arminianism believes that God's sovereignty is preeminent over everything. But, unlike Calvinism, it also believes that God sovereignly chose to give man free will and make man responsible to choose whether or not to repent and believe the gospel.
It’s sad that gotquestions has not made a decision, but rather stands on the fence to remain neutral. I’ve used their site for so many questions….this is one they don’t truly answer. 😢
That’s because it’s unexplainable and a mystery. Both are backed up by scripture. This is not a salvation disagreement.
@@faithdepp5282
Romans 3:10-18 10
as it is written:
“There is no righteous person, not even one;
11 There is no one who understands,
There is no one who seeks out God;
12 They have all turned aside, together they have become [a]corrupt;
There is no one who does good,
There is not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The venom of [b]asps is under their lips”;
14 “Their mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16 Destruction and misery are in their paths,
17 And they have not known the way of peace.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
For one to say they've chosen God and done it on their own accord is not what the Bible teaches. (Assuming you're saved) are you to say it wasn't the work of the Holy Spirit that brought you to the LORD? If you've truly looked into your heart as I have I would never seek out God, I would never choose to be good as God is.
The Bible says that God is sovereign.
The Bible also says that man has free will.
God's sovereignty and man's free will
both work at the same time.
These two are not in contradiction.
People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism.
We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
Actually they are hiding their beliefs. It’s quite dishonest.
If you look at their website, they are 4 point Calvinists. I’ll save you the trouble; they themselves say so. That’s why their positions tend to have a more Calvinist slant.
Calvinism is unbiblical, and limited atonement is straight up heresy. Even Calvin himself didn’t believe that, because John the apostle directly contradicts it. I’m at least glad GotQuestions doesn’t believe in that.
Calvinism destroys the Gospel. For a true (high) Calvinist, it is impossible to preach the Gospel to everyone and say, Jesus died for all your sins. It becomes, Jesus may have died for your sins. Without free will in salvation there is no love, and without love there is no point to it all, or hope. We simply do what we are made to do. I guess I was predestined to dislike predestination 😂
Did Cain have the ability to not kill Able??
What purpose could there be to predestine, before all time, to make one of the first 4 humans on the earth to murder the other?
or...was freewill available, like Adam and Eve, to choose right or wrong?
Yes, since Eden, Adam and Eve, freewill is innate.
Perfact love means that you give that person the absolute choice to NOT love you. Ore to Love you. It requires absolute Grace to. alow someone to accept or walk away.
And absolute respect of someone's freedom of choice so they can freely love you.
God is Absolutely Perfact in all aspects of His character ballanced by justice and grace.
Firstly, pre-destination is a false doctrine created by the devil to give God a bad image of being unfair and hating humans. This false doctrine gives some humans pride where they think they are better than others by default so they have a license to sin whereas Jesus said in Luke 13:3 “Unless you repent you will likewise perish” (See also 1 Corinthians 6:9)
I pray to Father, the Father of Mercy, and Holiness, that we all find Christ his Son, and be guided by the Spirit, as long as we try to learn from preachers who keep God’s word True and untampered. Hope we are to gather and join with neighbors who keep the same Faith.
Yes Lord, the gates are narrow that lead to heaven, that is your Word, but when we remember that this earthly life is temporary and find God’s grace, understand that Jesus died for our sins, that we can be saved.
In Jesus name, Amen 🙏
We?
@@aletheia8054 yes you as well
@@Kdcitizen You can leave me out of your prayer. I’ll pray my own with my own church.
You don’t even know me.
@@aletheia8054 Jesus blessed many who do not know him fully, the Apostles did as well in Jesus’ name, and many do not know the Apostles.
I will still pray for you.
@@Kdcitizen That’s funny
Our salvation is of God , our perdition is of ourselves .
It seems like these people had a remarkable talent for making the simplest concepts incredibly incomprehensible. Keep the message of repentance through faith in Christ simple. That’s the way God always intended for it to be received.
Exactly!
The Bible says that God is sovereign.
The Bible also says that man has free will.
God's sovereignty and man's free will
both work at the same time.
These two are not in contradiction.
People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism.
We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
@@harveygitarista1600 As far as I can see, Arminianism is Calvinism repackaged. I reject both entirely.
The biggest logical problem for Calvinism is the erroneous presupposition that sovereignty automatically implies determinism.
The problem is that we have people who’d rather love and worship a doctrine rather than their Creator. Rather than blindly accept propositional doctrinal conclusions, we need to get back to what Scripture ACTUALLY says (not what we THINK it’s “teaching”) and learn how to think through these things epistemically.
If you say you can make a decision to believe, you have an Armenian view.
Apparently, ALL religions come into conflict when "well read scholars" input their interpretations and insists that
they are right and all others are wrong! From muslims to buddists, Jews to Christians, Hindu and others all suffer
the same divisiveness! Sometimes it seems "scholars" are the real reason people have harder times getting along!
I think that some people love their "Theology more than they love Jesus and others." The Body of Christ is bigger than what some may think or teach! We can be brothers & sisters without being "Identical Twins."
@@vicrader9195 well said!
So what's the correct response just be superficial and not think deeply about things? Sounds like a bad idea.
@reno moore If you're just making a statement...fine. If you're suggesting, that I think all religions
are the same, then perhaps you're being "scholarly"...or judgemental. For me, Christianity isn't
a "religion"...it's a Reality. The ONLY reality! People can affix clever "words", phrases, interpretations
all they want. Don't change a thing for me! I'll assume your were just making a statement!
Since this is America, every one has the right to say as they please! I was remarking above that ALL
religions (pagan or otherwise) seems to always have "scholars" muddying the waters. I assume
you're a Christian, so are you totally independent? Or, identified with a particular denomination?
If you're of a denomination, then you are in conflict with your own statement, "Your not a Christian
if you think all religions are the same, or a believer". Because whether your are Baptist, Anglican,
Lutheran, Calvinist, Methodist, Pentecost, Catholic these ARE groups, THEY ARE NOT THE SAME
(in total beliefs, views of the trinity, etc) so by your own words, YOU WOULD NOT BE A CHRISTIAN
or a BELIEVER!!! You can't look from the outside and say "this" applies to "you" but NOT TO ME!!!
But I do understand just your flat statement! Outside of Christianity, ALL other "religions, beliefs"
are just that, beliefs. If someone wants to pick up a stick, paint it, dress it and say this is
Hue-Ba-Ha-Ba, knock yourself out! Christian brother, you pray for me and I for you! We'll laugh later!!!
@@intothekey One can think deeply or shadow and everything in between. Do you believe "now" as
you did as a youth? Have you discovered, changed, reflect differently as you matured? "What's the
correct response?" I have no idea! One can think deeply about whatever they want. The "bad idea"
happens when ppl tried to push, force and make others believe and do as they do...that's the bad idea!
I rather be superficial, than to force my beliefs onto others! I can't SAVE anyone no matter how DEEPLY
I THINK and neither can you! Mussolini was a deep thinker! Stalin was a deep thinker! Mao was a deep
thinker! Having open and frank discussions are fine. But truly, what say you when discussion turns
to "hair splitting"? Why do we have some MANY denominations? Is this good? Doesn't this distract,
instead of attract? What do you say to young ones that ask why, some many denominations?
My two cents:
Old Testament answer to Calvinism - God's response to King Asa: " The Lord is with you while you are with him. If you seek him, he will be found by you, but if you forsake him, he will forsake you" 2 Chronicles 15:2 ESV).
New Testament answer to Calvinism - "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned" (John 15:4-6 ESV).
These are essentially saying the same thing. Righteousness only comes through faith (i.e., "Abraham BELIEVED GOD and it was credited to him as righteousness") -- and this was true under both the old and new covenants. A covenant is a binding agreement between TWO or more parties. God would never forsake his side of the covenant. However, Israel (in the Old Testament) forsook their side of the covenant -- and they were carried away from the Promised Land as a result.
I would point out that "believing God" is slightly different than "believing IN God." The demons believe (and tremble). However, the greater question is whether someone believes what God says through his Word.
The Calvinist would argue that you cannot believe God unless you are "drawn" to God. In other words, you cannot truly be convinced in your minds or hearts because only the "elect" can believe. Yet, there are many verses in the Old and New Testaments that refer to putting away unbelief and believing. After all, God has drawn ALL PEOPLE to Christ by the cross (John 12:32). The question then remains: Can someone who has believed God's Word ever stop believing God's Word?
In the Old Testament, there were people who believed and then fell into idolatry, immorality, etc. I'm not just talking about the Israelites at the time of Balaam (when God's wrath fell on them) but also of men like Solomon -- who fell into the same sort of sin. He accumulated 700 wives and 300 concubines. He eventually built altars for THEIR gods and even participated in the sacrifices and worship to them. This is the king of whom God twice appeared to.
In the final chapter of Nehemiah, Nehemiah mentions how Solomon fell after marrying foreign women and ultimately "acted treacherously" against God (Nehemiah 13:26-27). It's also the thing that Jesus speaks against in Revelation 2:14.
Calvin's God, like Mohammed's, is absolute sheer Will. Nothing created has any real autonomy. Creation is a stage-play, written, produced and directed by the God of Geneva, with the characters merely acting a part. This God also writes the reviews.
You clearly have never studied Islam or Reformed Theology if you think the two are analogous. Not sure why allowing the perfect God to write, produce, direct and review his own show would be a bad thing either - sounds like an emotional argument and not a scriptural one.
@@JohnnyCrack Sorry to disappoint but I have spent many hours, over years, studying both. Religion has been a lifelong interest of mine. My argument is not scriptural, since I am not a Christian. It is partially emotional (emotions are part of how we know reality) and partly rational.
Hard predestination, either Islamic or Calvinist, has no room for human freedom.
How that differs from puppetry, well, that escapes me.
@@polemeros Islam is an entirely works-based religion. Your "hours" of study haven't made you any smarter on religion if you think Christianity and Islam, let alone Calvinism and Islam have similar views on the will of man.
God is not willing that any should perish, yet MOST are on the broad road leading to destruction. So, obviously God's will is NOT being done in at least some instances. In Jeremiah, God says, "They built the high places to sacrifice their children to idols, something I did NOT command, nor did I speak it, nor did it enter my mind." Joshua said, "CHOOSE you this day whom you will serve." ALSO, you will never convince me in a million years that the God of the Bible, who IS Love, is the cause of EVERY evil you can imagine; Satan worship, child molestation, prostitution, drugs, alcohol, pornography, human trafficking, murder, rape, not to mention, the Christ rejecting religions of Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Atheism. This Calvinistic God is NOT the God of scripture.
Absolutely, Perfectly concluded. The application of either doctrine limits the infinite GOD of the Bible. The Bible teaches 1) GOD is Sovereign exercising HIS Providence to achieve HIS intended results/ end and 2) GOD created mankind in HIS image as ontological and volitional beings capable of making independent decisions. So if we consider the truth of the Bible, as this video points out, both Calvinism and Arminianism fail!
Lean not on your own understanding, in all ways acknowledge Him he shall make your paths straight. Of course I forgot the exact verse. But instead of relying on our own understanding we should rely on God all the time. In Jesus name. Amen
They are also Christian zionists. So they're not very biblical after all.
2 achieves his sovereignty and intended results too. His will being that he wants us to be able to pick him in spite of the world
Great video, this cleared up some confusion I had! So in a sense, Calvinists believe that those who have been predestined to go to heaven were kind of "randomly" (for lack of a better word) picked, without God paying attention or seeing the future as to how they would lead their lives. Arminianism states that based on the idea that God could sort of "see the future" and that anyone could become saved, but because God knows all, He knows who will ultimately choose a life of faith because he is an omniscient god. Do I have that right?? Trying to make sense of it all...
Neither. The Bible.
Thank you for your dedication..
Calvinism fits better, for there’s too many things we cannot decide( birthplace, family, etc.), and how can we freely decide to accept free gift by our sinful nature? In fact, believers of Arminism constantly fall into self righteousness and moralism, attempting to keep salvation through deeds, for their belief in conditional salvation; While Calvinists believe in unconditional salvation, which makes them humble before God and other people, and willingly perform the Great Commission. In conclusion, salvation comes only from God, not deeds, once saved, always saved. That’s my view point, and God bless you, Amen!
faith is not a work, therefore God choosing us based on foreseen faith is not us working for salvation
Just represents a loving & just God.
There are more available options than Arminianism and Calvinism.
Amen... false dichotomy debunked.
Yeah! The Bible.
Neither is correct. Stop following someone’s opinion. Paul answered that debate long before these two assumptions. In Romans 5:18-19, “Therefore just as one man's trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man's act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all. For just as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.”
Romans 5:18-19
We are all restored to righteousness because of the obedience of Christ. Permanently!
*_What the Bible Says About Freewill_*
John 3:16
For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believes in Him shall not parish but have eternal life.
Joshua 24:15
15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then CHOOSE for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.”
John 7:17
17 Anyone who CHOOSES to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.
Hebrews 3:7-11
7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me,
And saw My works forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with that generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they have not known My ways.’
11 So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest.’ ”
Hebrews 3:12-13
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in DEPARTING from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Ezra 7:13
13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own FREEWILL to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.
Exodus 35:21
21 And they came, every one whose heart stirred him up, and every one whom his spirit made WILLING, and they brought the Lord's offering to the work of the tabernacle of the congregation, and for all his service, and for the holy garments.
Exodus 8:32
32 And Pharaoh HARDENED HIS HEART at this time ALSO, neither would he let the people go.
God hardened his heart by allowing him to choose to harden his own heart. Works like that...
John 1:12-13
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the WILL of the flesh nor of the WILL of man, but of God.
John 7:17
If anyone's WILL is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.
2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone TO COME TO REPENTANCE.
Over and over the Bible talks about our willingness to come to God.
"Calvinism denies man’s free will to obey or disobey God, which is the basis of man’s responsibility and accountability, as taught by the Bible."
Calvinism is heretical. They cherry pick verses. They teach that free will does not exist despite what the Bible says. They do not believe in a rapture. They also believe the 1,000 year millennium reign of Christ is happening right now. The list goes on and on. They don't believe people can deny Christ and go to hell if they are "chosen". As if we can spit in God's face all of our lives and still get to heaven if we are one of His "chosen", His "elect".
2 Peter 2:20-21
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
That means when the sinner that had the full gospel then refuses the gospel his last state will be worse than his state before knowing Christ.
That requires free will.
On the cross, Jesus became sin. Everyone's sin. Not only for "whom He chose". They believe we lost free will when Adam sinned. They believed that by the first sin we lost the ability to love God on our own terms.
Augustine, one of which influenced John Calvin, said, “by subverting the rectitude in which he was created, he is followed with the punishment of not being able to do right” and “the freedom to abstain from sin has been lost as a punishment of sin.”
This goes against everything the entire Bible preaches.
Once you accept Jesus Christ as your savior and lord, you no longer belong to yourself anymore. "“I have been crucified with Christ: and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me, and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God" Galatians 2:20
The new man that has been born out of the Spirit has the Spirit's desires "And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good." Romans 7:16
I pray Jesus Christ will reveal you the full understanding of His grace so that you are spared the great suffering self-righteousness brings.
What the Bible says about everything being Gods will….
What God does is forever
Eccl 3:14, 15 - I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him. v15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past. Workmanship (Poiema - Tapestry / artwork) Eph 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Declaring End from beginning Isaiah 46:10 - Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: Phil 2:13 - For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Works all things
Eph 1:11 - In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will I Thes 5:18 - In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. Rom 8:28 - And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. Acts 15:18 - Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. Acts 3:18 - But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. I Cor 12:6 - And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. Isaiah 42:9 - Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. Acts 4:28 - For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. John 1:13 - Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. James 1:18 - Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. I Create Evil, I Do All Things Isaiah 45:7 - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Eph 1:22, 23 - And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, v23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. Above all Eph 4:6 - One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Giving Thanks for All Eph 5:20 - Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; By Him all things consist Col 1:17 - And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. In all things preeminence Col 1:18 - And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. Head of all principality (arche - rule) & power Col 2:10 - And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: Christ is all Col 3:11 - Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Daniel 4:35 - And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? Isaiah 64:6-8 - But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. v7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities. v8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand. Daniel 4:17, 25, 32 - This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men. v25 That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will. v32 And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will. Psalms 135:6-12 - Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places. v7 He causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings for the rain; he bringeth the wind out of his treasuries. v8 Who smote the firstborn of Egypt, both of man and beast. v9 Who sent tokens and wonders into the midst of thee, O Egypt, upon Pharaoh, and upon all his servants. v10 Who smote great nations, and slew mighty kings; v11 Sihon king of the Amorites, and Og king of Bashan, and all the kingdoms of Canaan: v12 And gave their land for an heritage, an heritage unto Israel his people. Snowstorms and whirlwinds (tornados) all are the will of God when they destroy Job 37:3-19 - He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth. v4 After it a voice roareth: he thundereth with the voice of his excellency; and he will not stay them when his voice is heard. v5 God thundereth marvellously with his voice; great things doeth he, which we cannot comprehend. v6 For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain, and to the great rain of his strength. v7 He sealeth up the hand of every man; that all men may know his work. v8 Then the beasts go into dens, and remain in their places. v9 Out of the south cometh the whirlwind: and cold out of the north. v10 By the breath of God frost is given: and the breadth of the waters is straitened. v11 Also by watering he wearieth the thick cloud: he scattereth his bright cloud: v12 And it is turned round about by his counsels: that they may do whatsoever he commandeth them upon the face of the world in the earth. v13 He causeth it to come, whether for correction, or for his land, or for mercy. v14 Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God. v15 Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine? v16 Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge? v17 How thy garments are warm, when he quieteth the earth by the south wind? v18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass? v19 Teach us what we shall say unto him; for we cannot order our speech by reason of darkness. God reserves snow for His purposes Job 38:22, 23 - Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail, v23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war? God orders lightning, feeds lions, provides food for ravens Job 38:35-41 - Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are? v36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart? v37 Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven, v38 When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together? v39 Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions, v40 When they couch in their dens, and abide in the covert to lie in wait? v41 Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat.
Well said! Calvinism cherry picks a relative handful of Scriptures entirely out of context, changes the definitions of some of the words found in Scripture ("Election" and "Predestination", to name two), and thus twists the plain Word of God into a bizarre, contradictory amalgamation of Augustinian proto-Romanism, Manicheanism and pagan Greek philosophy. Then they have to desperately distract from Scriptures that disprove their interpretations like the ones you listed, or else fall all over themselves trying to explain how those Scriptures don't actually say what they clearly say!
@@DamonNomad82 hey brother i'd love to have a discord video call with you and see if you can show me (with the bible ofc) arminianism is biblical and why calvinism is wrong.
@@YAHOOISNOTG With all due respect, I'm afraid I must disappoint you on that. As I suffer from crippling social anxiety, any form of discussion other than typed is unfortunately out of the question in my case, as the only thing a video call would accomplish is you seeing me have a nervous breakdown, which would be unhelpful to either of us, as I would be unable to make any points and any point you might make would have trouble getting through to someone in a state of complete panic. I am not on any other social media platform other than UA-cam, and have no interest in ever being on one. If you're willing to discuss the topic in this comment section, I can certainly do so. However, you seem to be presupposing that Calvinism and Arminianism are opposites and that as a non-Calvinist that I adhere to Arminianism, neither of which is the case. Arminius was a lifelong Calvinist, and held to the vast majority of what Calvin taught. The only real differences between the two soteriologies stem from the rather superficial differences on the last 4 points of "TULIP". There are many points with which I disagree with both.
Thanks for the conclusion
Well put, right?
The Bible says that God is sovereign.
The Bible also says that man has free will.
God's sovereignty and man's free will
both work at the same time.
These two are not in contradiction.
People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism.
We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
Both are philosophical beliefs of MEN...the Holy Spirit is our teacher.
Both are philosophies of the Bible, the Holy Spirit breathed book, if I say I received “revelation” that I should kill people and say it was the Holy Spirit, what do we do? we compare it with scripture, it is the inherent word of God, therefore that excuse for a lack of theological depth is not galid
The Bible is God's innerrant word,it is "truth",I thank God for the spirit of truth,faith cometh by hearing and by hearing the word of God,his "word" is truth,Proverbs 18-21;the power of life and death is in the tongue,those who love it shall eat its fruit,the Lord bless you this day.
@@billylinsley5463 bless you brother
I think that some people love their "Theology more than they love Jesus and others." The Body of Christ is bigger than what some may think or teach! We can be brothers & sisters without being "Identical Twins."
The "bible"holds all authority...not what men think.
I think arminians are those who were pharisees in the time of Christ, who can gain their salvation by their good works, not by God's work. It's very simple to understand... Who created you? Who gaves us grace to be saved? Who governs the world?... "no one is righteous, no, not one."
faith is not a work, litterally the whole book of romans contrasts faith and works so being predestined because of forseen faith is not working for salvation
No my friend, you have it quite backwards.
The Pharisees were Calvinists, because they believed Jews were elect simply based on their Jewish status, similar to how the Calvinists belief they were predestined from birth. Their following the Law was simply was Jews did because they were Jews.
You quote from the Psalms when you say “there is no one righteous, not one”. This is poetry, and it actually contrasts with what the OT says in the narrative portions. It’s much more difficult to interpret poetry and it requires more context.
Consider Moses in Deuteronomy saying “choose life” and that the Law was achievable.
Consider also that God told Cain that sin was crouching at the door, and he had to master it. How do you reconcile these more straightforward narrative passages?
Following the Law NEVER brought salvation after death. The Bible never says it. It instead was made for good moral living and to draw people to God with the promise of eventual salvation (through the promised Messiah). That’s exactly what Jesus is. He is the culmination of the implicit promise of the Law. Righteous Jews before Jesus correctly believed God would save them, but it was never a reward for obeying the Law.
Consider another thing: is faith a work? And would it have been considered a work by 1st century Jews? The answer to both questions is clearly no. The Hebrew culture is action oriented, and the Greek idea that thought and mental reasoning counts as action (work) would be foreign to them. Faith is passive. It is the mental acknowledgement/belief that Jesus is Messiah. That’s it.
My good works accomplish not my salvation, but they are a humble gift for my Messiah. I hope to receive a crown as a reward someday so that I will have something to cast to the feet of Jesus.
This video helps me see that we are actually closer than we are apart in views. (At least Calvin and Arminius were)
It is a false dichotomy. Both are incorrect and unbiblical.
@@eiontactics9056 well they cant both be completely wrong lol
@@noahsd How can they not be? Both start with a false premise of God electing people to be Saved. God never elected anyone to Salvation... He elects people to servitude and or blessings, and always for the benefit of others. Example would be Jesus. Jesus is God's elect. Jesus sacrificed Himself for the world. God elected Israel... and through Israel, the ability to be Saved was given to all men... etc.
Both are false doctrines and they are both unbiblical.
@@eiontactics9056 God has to have chosen people. If he didn't, he is not God. 1 peter spells this out nicely.
And where did you get the idea he does this for others? Everything is for Gods glory.
@@noahsd God "has to have chosen people"? First, chosen for what? Secondly, you said that God must do something or He is not God? Are you okay with telling God what He can or can not do? Also... this reasoning makes absolutely no sense.
I got the idea that God elects people for others in the Bible. God elected Jesus... for what? To save the world. God elected the Apostles... for what? To preach the Gospel to others. God elected Isreal... for what? To show the world that we can not work for our salvation, and to crucify Jesus so that the whole world can be saved. So on and so forth. God's glory is in His love and mercy for us! God created us in His image, and He wills for us to have a loving relationship with Him and share His Glory with Him for all eternity.
i was a Arminian for years because i didnt know better. Calvinism is Biblical Christianity. The Bible proves that over n over again. I feel bad for people who dont see that.
Sadly, the God of calvinists is a strange God. A dictator. Even a liar. John 3, 16 talks about a different order. First faith then eternal life and it clearly states the whole world. Also in the following verses.
Neither view is correct.. The problem is that people have been made to believe that these are the only choices if one doesn't believe Catholicism is correct either.. The bible doesn't confirm any of these choices ..
The Bible clearly teaches the doctrine of election/predestination, an elect people of God, the total inability of mans will to choose God, and the salvation of Gods people being secured in Christ. We don’t need the label, but it’s just a summarized way of explaining scripture.
@@matthaschanged it certainly does not plainly teach TULIP in scriptures anywhere my friend...Nowhere in Scripture does it say one is predestined to believe in CHRIST.. One is predestined to the adoption after believing though.. I believe this is where Calvinist conflate things when there is no reason or evidence to do so.. As far as total inability , there isn't any evidence for that either.. Yes I believe Scripture on how despicable man is but I don't see anywhere in Scripture that's says he can't realize it and call on THE NAME OF THE LORD upon hearing the gospel .. THE HOLY SPIRIT rebukes the world of sin through the gospel , nowhere does it say that HE forces one to believe. Take a look at this verse my friend , Romans 5 : 18.. All means all in condemnation and all means all in the free gift..same word pantas is used for the word all in Greek in both occurrences of the word...
@@matthaschanged one you are born again you are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ
@@cecilspurlockjr.9421 please explain John 6:44, Romans 9:15, Ephesians 2:8-9, and many other Scriptures. I believe the true tainted aspect is the way that these theologies are used. They seem to be used as a way to explain rather than to glorify. For example, Arminianism, in my humble opinion, is used to glorify the man in all that he can add to his salvation. This is all for not, as man has nothing he can add to his salvation or convince God that he is holy and righteous for a right standing with God. Calvinism, again in my humble opinion, glorifies the Lord in the way that he has saved us from our depraved and retched state of rebellion and hatred towards the Father. Praise be to God that He has opened our eyes to Him. For He does these things for His glory alone. A works based faith such as Arminianism is so contrary to the teachings of Christ. Even the teaching that one may leave the faith and his own accord is highly contrary to the written Word of the Gospels.
I think that some people love their "Theology more than they love Jesus and others." The Body of Christ is bigger than what some may think or teach! We can be brothers & sisters without being "Identical Twins."
I (and many others) call people who believe in OSAS/eternal security but reject the other tenets of Calvinism as free gracers!
I doubt there are many, if any people, who believe that. Personally, I think OSAS is dangerous in light of the Parable of the Unforgiving Servant, Hebrews 6, or James 2 (faith without works is dead). I won't call it heresy, but there are many people that made a true profession of faith and still fell away.
@@charliedontsurf334 also the unprofitable servant, the servant who decided to beat his servants and and sleep and drink around (Luke 12:45), the unforgiving servant, etc most of jesus teaching refer to preservering and abiding and if u don’t abide u will be thrown to the wayside or trampled on the same way u trample on the son of man when u deliberately go on sinning after recieving his grace
1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
If God desires for all men to be saved, then why would he only elect a certain amount of men? It is my understanding that God attempts to draw all men to him, but only some answer the call; and those that answer the call are the elect that he foreknew would accept.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 3:10-11 however, Sir. Ephesians 2:8-10.
A good question to study would be, did Christ die to save sinners? Or to make them "save-able"?
Scripture would contend that Jesus' work on the cross was effective to save, and did save.
If God desires all men to be saved, why aren't they all saved? Are you saying God can't get everything he desires?
Essentially, people who waste their time on this issue displease God.
Rather than paying attention to what Jesus says, they jabber on endlessly.
Read what Jesus says in Mt. 25.31-46, Luke 10.25-37, and three times in Ezekiel;
Chapter 3, Chapter 18, and Chapter 33. This is sufficient to warn you against playing word games.
After all said and done Calvinism is closer to what Scripture teaches
Expound on that conclusion, please.
Calvinists, I'm genuinely interested in how you would answer these questions:
- Are all who hear the gospel given a bona fide offer of saving grace (given a chance to repent and believe the Lord Jesus)?
No:
- So then is it true that hell is occupied by people who have not been offered salvation?
- How is God loving if he offers some sinners saving grace, but doesn't offer it to other equally as undeserving sinners?
Yes:
- Is saving grace irresistible?
> No - not a calvinist/reformed
> Yes - So then if all are given a genuine offer of saving grace, but noone is able to resist an offer of saving grace, why aren't all people saved? Also, how do you square grace being irresistible with Acts 7:51 which indicates we are able to resist the work of the Spirit?
1. Yes, there are people in hell who have not been offered salvation... 2. Governors and presidents have the right to pardon criminals... we wouldn't say that a president was unloving for not pardoning all criminals, would we?
@@johnscotland3124 Thanks for the response!
1. Is it strange that God would condemn people to hell whom he never gave a chance to be saved? How would that square with John 12:48 and Matt 25:31-46 which indicate that these people were given a chance and it is also a rejection of Christ that brings final judgement upon a person.
2. I think we would say that, for any two criminals who truly both committed the exact same crime, a governor would be unloving if he offers a pardon to just the one and not the other.
Our conception that selective presidential pardons are normal and good and blanket pardons are not is tainted by the fact that usually these pardons are done only in instances of malsentencing or when the sentence is grossly more severe than deserts of the crime. However, this doesn't happen with sin. Nobody is malsentenced for sin or given a more severe punishment than deserved for their sin. We all have the same sentence just like scenario I described above.
Again, in a perfect world without malsentencing, if a governor were to pardon at all, it seems he would only be loving if he offered a pardon to every criminal. Otherwise the governor would be unloving to offer a pardon to only a select few and not the others.
This would be best illustrated if a president, for example, does NOT offer pardon someone who committed the exact same crime with exactly the same surrounding legal context as a person he does offer pardon. This would clearly be unloving.
@@343jonny I would disagree that one person being pardoned over another for the same crime is unloving... and I'm rather confused by your saying that it would be.
@@johnscotland3124It's quite obvious that you believe that, but why? Everything being exactly the same between two prisoners and the governor being equally as capable of offering pardon to both, for what reason would a governor then offer pardon to only one? Only because he doesn't love the other.
And no, a sufficient reason for why he doesn't offer a pardon to the other criminal is not "it's a mystery".
@@johnscotland3124 do you realize God have free will and we was made by His image? There are differences kind of grace. E.g: rain, just and unjust...?
They are both correct. God Elects ... this is clear. Man has genuine responsibility this is clear. How does this fit together??? Knowbody knows. If pushed I'm definitely a calvanist in the end. You cannot deny the Elect, as it is mentioned in the bible very clearly.
God never elects unconditionally anyone to be Saved and some to be damned before the foundation of the world. BOTH are false doctrines. It is a false dichotomy. Don't fall into the trap.
God elects people to serve and or to blessings...not to salvation. He "elects" certain people to serve Him for others. Like Jesus, Isreal, and those who believe in Christ for the purpose to serve Him for others (example, to preach the Gospel to all men so that they might be saved).
He elects the faithful in Christ to be holy and without blame (a spiritual blessing), etc.
@@eiontactics9056 I don't think that's what the Bible is actually saying. "You don't believe because you are not one of my sheep". The ultimate question is simply this "where does faith come from". Is it a gift from God, or does the sinner dead in his trespasses generate it??? Why do people go to hell??? You think people believe of their own choice, so they are just smarter than people who don't believe?? You cannot ignore election it is in the Bible in black and white, however much we wish it were different.
@@friendyadvice2238 Faith isn't a thing or a work. It happens when you are introduced to truth. The Bible never says that Faith is a gift from God, His grace and Salvation is a gift from God through faith in Christ.
A sinner who is a slave to sin, when introduced to the Truth of Christ has the ability to realize and acknowledge that they are sinners and need a Saviour.
People go to hell because instead of owning up to being a sinner and repenting and believing in Christ, they would rather continue in their own ways and lifestyle.
Everyone is responsible for if they believe or not. Nobody has an excuse, because God has sufficiently given everyone ample means to know Him and His love.
It does not mean that anyone is smarter than another so to speak. It just means that some people choose to reject God for various reasons and others choose to accept Him. Simple as that.
You are right! The Bible is very clear on this issue.
@@eiontactics9056 yes but you still have the same basic question ... why do some believe and some not believe?? What drives that choice??? "No one can come to me unless my Father draws him" .... so by default all cannot be draw otherwise all would be saved. The issue is what is the limiting factor? Who limits it?
@@friendyadvice2238 No... "draw" here just means like an affectionate attraction. It also says CAN come, which implies the ability to come, not some irresistible force. He was also talking about that particular time when He was still on earth in the process of fulfilling the prophecy. This is why in John 12 He says that if He is lifted up from the earth, He will draw all men to Himself.
When Jesus was still living, the truth of Him was not available to everyone... only those who did not become self righteousness and knew the Father would be attracted / drawn to Jesus at that time.
Also, the issue of Universalism is the problem of the Calvinist. They redefine the word draw in John 6 to support their false doctrine... but then it contradicts John 12... so then they have to change and twist the word "all" in John 12 when it is unnecessary. Draw does not mean irresistible grace. God does not force you to believe in Christ.
The biggest problem is the definition of "free will". Man does not have ultimate free will. We do not will our hearts to beat. We can't freely avoid the laws of physics, the conditions of our birth, our past, etc. We only have the free ability to control our intentions. Our paths are set by God. God, however, does not judge our path but our intentions. God judges the heart and knows we are but dust. Thus the need for a Savior.
God has chosen who he will save before the foundation of the earth. It’s not really a free will choice, god saves and does all things according to his will. ✝️🙏
People claim that these 5 points are disputable, but if you look more closely; they are not. One view holds that salvation can be lost through willful faithlessness and apostasy, the other view holds that you cannot and will not lose salvation, unless you never had it to begin with. If the former view is true, then followers of Christ have a responsibility to maintain and nourish their faith and the cost of failing to do so whether partially or fully may result in eternal damnation regardless of any former faith and belief in Christ. If the latter is true, then followers of Christ need never concern themselves with the eternal risk of damnation so long as their initial faith and belief in Christ was genuine. As you can see, this is of critical importance because Calvinists will acknowledge that we do not have a license to sin, yet they believe that an abuse of such a concept does not have any bearing on your salvation.
Christ had a lot to say to established Christians about repentance and eternal life. He warned each of the seven major churches of Asia in Revelations of the consequences of failing to repent, no matter how righteous or observant they may have previously been or currently be in their faith. This is further solidified in the end of Revelation, where we are warned that if we remove from the prophecies of Revelation that we will be removed from the Book of Life (or rather that the fruit of the Tree of Life will be taken from us). Many biblical scholars have properly noted that something can not be taken away from you if you don’t first have it. Other biblical scholars claim that this merely is stating that whatever opportunity you may have had will be lost, but this is further refuted when you note that Calvinists believe that your salvation is both predetermined and eternally secure (which would imply that neither of the above interpretations are logical and the warning Christ gave was irrelevant).
Edit: the above point is my primary focus, but I’d like to add that my personal opinion is that the five points of Calvinism are unreasonable when we consider the importance that Christ placed on sharing his gospel; if our ministry has no bearing or impact on any individuals salvation, which is predetermined and secure, then why should we bother spending our time sharing his word? Why bother correcting brothers and sisters of the church and calling them to repentance? Why bother learning and practicing the commandments of Christ? The imperative nature of the gospel is reduced to what could be called “a list of beneficial recommendations”. Perhaps what drives a Calvinist to serve God faithfully is merely the extra rewards they will receive in Heaven, or perhaps they do it because of a sense of duty, but they cannot and must not do it for the sake of any person’s salvation because it is, according to the five points, predetermined and eternally secure.
Firstly, pre-destination is a false doctrine created by the devil to give God a bad image of being unfair and hating humans. This false doctrine gives some humans pride where they think they are better than others by default so they have a license to sin whereas Jesus said in Luke 13:3 “Unless you repent you will likewise perish” (See also 1 Corinthians 6:9)
To my mind the fact that God gave man free will answers all these question.
Only Adam and Eve had true free will. After the Fall every human is prisoned in sin an has only free will in his sin. No one Haß the ability to choose god from his own. In the whole bible it's good who elects. Read Romans 3 brother
CUT TO THE CHASE: When Jesus died on the cross He died for "ALL" human beings and He is not "willing" that any should be lost. The BIBLE is clear on this, read it - John 3:16 and 2 Peter 3:9. (And there are many more CLEAR texts on this topic of "ALL." The Original NT Greek word for "All" means "All" not some, or few.)
I am a Bible-Believing Christian who got Saved by placing my Faith (Trust) in God's Love for me expressed through His Son Jesus paying the death penalty for my sins. He changed my life forever.
I think that some people love their "Theology more than they love Jesus and others." The Body of Christ is bigger than what some may think or teach! We can be brothers & sisters without being "Identical Twins."
This video explained their difference well but they left us with vague decision.
The Bible says that God is sovereign.
The Bible also says that man has free will.
God's sovereignty and man's free will
both work at the same time.
These two are not in contradiction.
People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism.
We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
They’re both wrong, but Calvinism is more wrong than Arminianism.
Calvinism is totally biblical. If you really believe in the bible, you'd become a Calvinist. Just read the book of Ephesians, Romans 3,6 and 9, John 6 and 10 and then give your thoughts
@@murilolinsdacruz4110 Literally everyone says that about their denomination. Yawn.
@@magepunk2376 Calvinism is not a denomination.
@@davevandervelde4799 Okay?
@@magepunk2376 I know brother, but just read these texts and think about them
I don’t think there’s only two choices. I found a 3rd choice/view on the subject matter. Curious what you guys think of this video The Church's 2-Party Blunder: Calvinism & Arminianism by UGChurch
Here's my third choice:
The Bible says that God is sovereign.
The Bible also says that man has free will.
God's sovereignty and man's free will
both work at the same time.
These two are not in contradiction.
People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism.
We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
@@harveygitarista1600 AMEN!
CUT TO THE CHASE: When Jesus died on the cross He died for "ALL" human beings and He is not "willing" that any should be lost. The BIBLE is clear on this, read it - John 3:16 and 2 Peter 3:9. (And there are many more CLEAR texts on this topic of "ALL." The Original NT Greek word for "All" means "All" not some, or few.)
I am a Bible-Believing Christian who got Saved by placing my Faith (Trust) in God's Love for me expressed through His Son Jesus paying the death penalty for my sins. He changed my life forever.
I think that some people love their "Theology more than they love Jesus and others." The Body of Christ is bigger than what some may think or teach! We can be brothers & sisters without being "Identical Twins."
God's Sovereignty shadows over one view vs the other! I believe both have strong points that only counter the other making it more difficult to grasp God's divine message of Salvation.
Where in the bible does it say humans are called to accept Christ?
John 6:44
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.”
The Bible doesn’t say to accept Christ but to follow Him. You can believe in God but if you don’t follow Christ and arent obedient then you are still missing out on what being a Christian is.
@@matthaschanged that's a calvinist proof text lol
@@wellactually21 it’s the word of God
@@matthaschanged John 12:32
King James Version
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Also... stop being lazy and read the Bible in full context. Read the very next verse in John 6!
John 6:45
King James Version
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
You Calvinists are so blind and lost! You call yourselves "Christians" but you are blind to the Scriptures and you don't even know the Gospel! I will pray for you! Repent of your Calvinism (which means acknowledge your sin and turn from it), and believe in Jesus Christ! The Biblical Jesus... the one who died for all men.
EXCELLENT !!! THANK YOU !!! DSC
Arminius was a Calvinist, and Calvin --- was a serial killer. Follow Jesus.
What a ungodly thing to call Calvin a serial killer repeat immature person
@@michaelspears4488 He didn't exactly lie. Calvin was an ungodly heretical murderer. He also somehow influenced Calvinism... a false religion that fools unknowing victims into thinking they are Christians and they are saved... when all it is doing is preaching a perverted gospel, God and Jesus and feeds on the pride of man... sending those people to hell and blinding them from the truth of Christ.
@@michaelspears4488 Hahaha. I repeat: John Calvin was a serial killer.
@@5winder real funny mocking a man of God. You show the love of the truth is Not in you
John Calvin killed at least 50 people. You don't hear that anywhere except you study.
Both views are wrong. ISM means religion of. Not Christian.
The two doctrines are parallel doctrines, you can't destroy one without destroying the other.
I personally lean toward 5 point Calvinism, because of my former life as a Roman Catholic, when my 3 older sisters,
told me that Jesus came to live in my heart, I believed at that very moment that it was true, 1948.
I left RC the day I entered my first Logging camp at age 17, that's when I began a crazy alcoholic life, following my 9year older Bro.
Sobered up 1980 AA, learned much about who God is, like never before, by the AA program. 15 years worth in depth.
1995 received a bible from 2nd ex-wife, then found a Pentecostal church, 'til 2010, re-married and we became what we call
Reform doctrine as in Bible only. When I look at the history, Jacobus was a Calvinist as well, then peeled off with a small band of
people that agreed with him, during the councils of Dort, etc. Now this tribe has the origins of Arminianism, which I've found
most protestants don't have a clue who Jacobus Arminius was, or that they are one of his,..... tongue in cheek.
I've always been a very slow learner and at age of 80 I'm sticking to the Reform doctrine, which people like to call Calvinism.
I love the preaching of John MacArthur, and many of the Pastors that came through the Masters Theology school. (California)
I believe this doctrine has put me on the most secure path I've ever been on, with more freedom that I've ever experienced in
my very sinful life. I consider Arminians my brothers and sisters in Christ. God bless you one and all, in Christ's name. Amen.
FROM CANADA.
Think this through. This one verse (there are many others) refutes hyper Calvinism; Matthew 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen." If Calvinism were true, the verse would/must simply say, "Few are called and those few are chosen." If God calls many and ONLY few are chosen, that absolutely implies that some who are called, refuse to come. Hence, they made a CHOICE to refuse God's calling.
@@Mike-qt7jpJohn 15:16 and following,
You did not choose me I chose you.
Ephesians 2 and following. I found you dead. (We were given life by grace not by works of choosing.) Being called is the complete wonder of Genesis and the universe around us, even atheists see the wonder, but refuse to credit it to the Almighty God. These folks have become gods unto themselves, which is the essence of the original sin. When a true Christian knows he is made in God's image, he knows he can not become the Devine as God, like Lucifer thought he could do. The best he got was prince of the power of the air, and now faces eternal wide awake death. We on the other hand are becoming like unto Christ, but not to become divine.
All our good works are not good works unto salvation but unto God's glory. These works were set before us in eternity past to accomplish. We will miss doing "all" those works, but the good news is, The Lord will complete us just as we step through the veil of the first death. Then we'll see Christ as He really is and we'll be like Him, though not as Divine God. My Question to true Christian Arminian Protestants is what's the worry if you received the gospel in your heart of John 3:16. The key Word there is the WHO-SO-EVER are the chosen. I'm sure many people say and read those Words and
believe in their head, but does not reach the heart. I think those are the people that will say didn't we prophecy in your name, cast out demons etc. and Jesus says depart from me I never knew you. Matt.7:21 and
following. Ephesians 1:4 I called you in eternity past.
Mike think some of these things through, and there is very much more. Those people who refused weren't chosen, because they were never regenerated. I know many atheists that never chose Christ. When I was an out of control drinking, fornicating, Adulterer, fighting, lying, thieving cheating maniac, I was called a demon and a devil many times. But when the Lord told me to stand on my feet 43 years ago and told me I never had to drink alcohol or do drugs again as long as I lived, it has never from that day to this occurred to me to lift a glass or take a drug, no matter how rough things have been in my life. Being a true Christian is not in my lowly opinion for the feint of heart, its a struggle all the way, "good news", I don't have an ounce of credit in the least, for making it thus far, it's Christ and the full glory of our God and the work of Christ's
death, and the life He gave.
I've never been more free in my life as I am today at 80 yrs. young. I have total freedom to sin or do good which ever I choose, that leaves nothing out. I'm not my own, but a slave to Christ Jesus. Sooo when I stumble and I do, the chastening is very painful, fearful, and shameful. When experienced
the after effects to come are restoring, soothing, hopeful, and joyful and very assuring that I'm one of His. This is a very small snippet of my testimony. I have to say when I hear people speak violently about
Calvinism, though I don't call myself Calvinist, it always helps me to grow stronger in my personal weakness. I'm subject to learn more about our Lord and my personal walk with Christ.
I think as usual I went on a bit to long, excuse me for that, I only wish for the full joy of the Lord for you brother in Christ. Amen. ❤✌🙏
Just because you can do it cheaper doesn't mean it's better
This video has the most convincing answer than endless nonsense debates. 3:30
This is one of those subjects that no one knows the answer to except God.
What I'd like to know is this: Am I a 5-point Calvinist, a 3-point Calvinist, a 2-point Arminian or a 5-point Arminian?
I believe God knew before any of us were born, who would be saved and who would be lost. I don't believe God decided before any of us were born, who would be saved and who would be lost.
I believe we are born totally selfish and that if or when any of us desires God it is because he first draws us.
I believe we are saved by grace alone through faith alone, not by our decisions - i.e. God's grace is the source and means of salvation, our faith is the vehicle or conduit of God's grace and our faith is God's gift to us - not our gift to him.
I believe there are at least three facets or aspects of salvation: Justification (God's forgivness), sanctification (personal holiness) and glorification.
I believe justification is by grace alone through faith alone - there is nothing we can do or hope to do or promise to do to earn or deserve God's forgiveness.
I believe sanctification is by grace alone through faith alone. We "co-operate" with him in the sense that he will not transform us without our permission but it isn't partly his work and partly ours.
I believe the purpose of the return of Jesus is to resurrect the people who have died in faith and take living beleivers with them to the mansions he has gone to prepare. (John 14:1-3; I Corinthians 15:51-54; I Thessalonians 4:13-18) We are currently living in the kingdom of grace AND the kingdom of glory will begin when we are glorified and given the gift of immortality at the time of his return. The kingdom of grace isn't a political kingdom and neither will the kingdom of glory be a political kingdom. The kingdom of glory will not come to Earth as a result of anything we can do or will do - it will be inaugurated suddenly, miraculously and cataclysmically.
The greatest question in the univrse is how it should be ruled. God's way is love. Satan's way is coercion. Our function during the thousand-year reign will be in a judicial capacity - not in an executive capacity enforceing God's laws. (And enforcement isn't our role in the present either!)
At the close of the millennium, the holy city, new Jerusalem, "the camp of the saints" will come down from God out of heaven, the finally impenetent will be resurrected, attack the city and be utterly destroyed, whereupon the Earth will be restored to its edenic beuaty and be the home of the saved forever.
Romans 9-11 has a very happy ending:
"God has committed all to disobedience that he might have mercy on all ... From him and through him and to him are all things." (Romans 11:32,36a)
That last sentence had me rollin’!!! 😂
I hate the “humans are stupid” argument. It just feels like a cheap way to explain contradictions
Thank you, this is what I have been coming to - that as you say, "Both systems fail, in that they attempt to explain the inexplainable." Exactly - where is irristible grace in the Bible? Where is prevenient grace? God is sovereign, and sovereignly gave us free will, and expects us to turn to Him and trust Him - and yet He knows, and He chooses.
If one is saved, I don't think he will go against the doctrine of Calvinism. When one comes to know that they are deprived, that's when faith in God comes into our hearts. That's how I experienced born again. The law is also a tool that brings us to Total DEPRAVITY, and in that state, we meet Jesus. All 5 points of Calvinism hold 👍.
Calvinists agree with this as RC Sproul did. Mankind is a free moral agent that can choose to sin or not to sin. The question is free will. Paul says only the freed person. This, for substance, was what Paul taught in Romans 6:16-23; only the freed will (Paul says, the freed person) freely and heartily chooses righteousness. Are wills to love and obey God was lost at the Fall.
Neither. Both are wrong. But typical of error, create the false dichotomy and then show the errors in the view you reject.
Calvinists are masters at this and do it all the time. As you've just proven again.
I have a lot less experience with Arminians but my limited experience seems to show they operate similarly. As do numerous other false beliefs such as conditionalism, extreme "free grace", extreme "lordship salvation", sinless perfectionism, antinomianism and the list goes on and on.
Arminianism is closer to Biblical Christianity, but, as you say, both are indeed wrong. Arminians basically believe Calvinism without the last 4 parts of TULIP, so they don't believe that God picked random individuals for salvation to the neglect of all others before the foundation of the world, that Christ's atonement was only for that specific group of individuals, that God's call cannot be resisted by the individuals He calls, or that those who truly believe at some point in their lives are incapable of apostasy and leaving the faith. They do, however, still embrace many of Calvin's teachings, such as the Augustinian model of Original Sin, developed by Calvin into the doctrine of Total Depravity.
Good point!
The Bible says that God is sovereign.
The Bible also says that man has free will.
God's sovereignty and man's free will
both work at the same time.
These two are not in contradiction.
People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism.
We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
The Bible says that God is sovereign.
The Bible also says that man has free will.
God's sovereignty and man's free will
both work at the same time.
These two are not in contradiction.
Stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism.
Go out there and preach the Gospel. Stop wasting your time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
Jonah is kind of a bit of both. He resisted Gods will but he FORCED him to go to Nineveh in the belly of the fish against his will
The only people that struggle with Calvinism are those that claim to be a Christian.
Oooo that's pokey. I like your style. Although I'd disagree. There's a fair number of truly regenerate Christians who just don't know their bible.
What about Calvinism vs. Provisionism?
What is the Calvinist interpretation of:
"And I [Jesus], when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself." (John 12:32)
Can a blind man choose to see and have sight? Can a deaf man choose to hear and able to hear? Can a dead man choose to live and have a life? Impossible. But with God all things are possible.
I disagree with both, I don’t label my walk or beliefs after the philosophy of man
Right.
The Bible says that God is sovereign.
The Bible also says that man has free will.
God's sovereignty and man's free will
both work at the same time.
These two are not in contradiction.
People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism.
We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.
They’re both wrong. They both believe God chose only some people. Totally wrong.
Only few are chosen. What about the Bible, is it wrong as well?
@@Just_in_Rich The Bible is correct. Your understanding of it is not. Go back and re-read Matthew 22. If you think “many are called but few are chosen” is a good counter point to my argument you clearly do not understand the text. In the Matthew 22 parable Jesus is actually teaching EXACTLY what I am saying. He lays out in excruciating detail how God chose the Jews first, but then also chose the Gentiles, so that everyone is chosen. At the end of his parable he uses the “many are called but few are chosen” line to sarcastically throw the Jews’ own line back in their faces. They used that line when they tried to further their argument that God loved only some people, them selves. But Jesus taught that God loved all people. His “many are called but few are chosen” means “all are invited, only some will respond”