5:57:10 Allow me to explain in clear detail what happened here and what led to the mission failing here. Our plan to stall the round revolves around using Trinity's first ability Well of Life to suspend the enemy and make that enemy pseudo immortal, so that the round does not end and start the next wave. This allows us to do things like take breaks and go to the bathroom, get snacks, etc. since we'll be in the mission for hours on end. Using Garuda's Death well actually ends the round apparently, so the only other way to do something like this would be with something like a limbo banish, Xaku's gaze ends the round as well. The issue with WoL, Xaku's Gaze, and Garuda's Blood Altar is that they all store the damage dealt to the enemy and release said damage when the ability timer ends, Limbo's banish actually has a very brief moment of downtime where the enemy can do damage, and when there is a brief moment for the enemy to deal damage, it will kill the defense target. The downtime for WoL is spent with the suspended enemy doing an animation that prevents it from shooting, meaning that perma-stalling an enemy with WoL is just better for this specific application. Using Perma-ragdoll states like Vazrin's vortex can end up killing the enemy after a while, since the game has a ragdoll timer check to prevent enemies from taking up the spawn cap if they fall off the map. Basically if an enemy is ragdoll for too long, and it's not a special enemy like an acolyte, then it will just die and the round will progress. The problem we ran into was purely one of bad luck, the Acolyte that spawned was Malice, the summoner. Malice has two forms, one that summons additional acolytes that scales with the number of people in the squad, and one that doesn't. Summoner Malice has a particularly annoying behavior, where upon spawning, he will immediately lock his HP with a gray state and sacrifice 1/3 of it to conjure some infested crawlers, these crawlers are usually just annoying, but because the acolytes do not share faction with enemies, they will also sometimes attack enemies and deal damage to them. This is a problem for us, because WoL stores ALL damage dealt to the target, including enemy damage from opposing factions, and wouldn't you know it, one of the crawlers had slipped away and began attacking our enemy that we were using to stall the round. All of the weapons I happened to have on me were AoE weapons, meaning that it was very much impossible for me to attack the crawler and not end up dealing damage to the enemy we were trying to use to stall the round (in hindsight, Maybe I could have used energy vampire on the crawler, but I think that it wouldn't deal enough damage in time to prevent the death of the stalled enemy ((the acolytes don't get stunned by EV, and usually their summons don't either)), and if I happened to hit the WoL target, it would have also killed the guy, as he was viral primed from my panzer kitty.) When I requested help with killing the "acolyte guy" I had thrown a ping on the crawler, but I realize now that I didn't clarify or mention the crawler at all when I thought I had, and gamble had already begun working on taking out the main acolyte, so he didn't come help take out the little ankle biter that was slowly killing our WoL guy. Taking out Misery was not a bad call from gamble, as misery could also end up targeting the defense pod end up failing the mission as well, I just needed somebody to help me the stupid crawler off the WoL target as we were kinda running out of time, every recast of WoL left the target with less and less HP, and I had nothing to kill the summon that was doing the damage. Mango was busy moving the specter summons away from the fight, as he didn't want the specters to end up targeting the WoL target and also ending the round, meaning that nobody actually had the ability to prevent the crawler from killing the stall. After summoner misery hits the 1/3 HP threshold, he locks his HP in a gray state again, and summons additional acolytes into the mission, this second set of summons can contain mania, violence, and angst, all of whom can use their entire ability set and also have no assigned faction (meaning they target the surrounding enemies as well as tenno) and you might see where we lost it all. When an Acolyte spawns it picks at random who it wants to beef with, and this includes the Misery summons, so when 1 of the 6 summons booked it over to start attacking me and the WoL (another layer of bad luck,) the WoL target died as soon as the ability ran out; gamble and mango did not make it over to me in time to prevent the summon from nut checking the WoL and ending the stall. There was a brief moment where we could have recovered the stall, by saving the acolyte summons and not letting the round end that way, but one of the specters came over and shut that idea down entirely, which is just more bad luck. The round ended, and we now needed to defend the target with literally nothing that could be used to help prevent the enemies from dealing damage. The round ended with an unsuccessful stall and at 6:00:25 during the next round, a singular enemy had managed to slip through all the CC and specters we threw down and killed the defense target in two shots, as there is no shield gate for defense targets. The enemy had Effectively "one-shot" it as the entire healthbar was depleted in ~24 frames, there was no time for anybody to react or find the target and save the round, it was over before we ever had the chance. The lesson we learned from this is that as the trin player, I should be bringing Single Target DPS tools and specifically should be on the Acolyte busting duty, that way if we need to stall, I can protect the target from acos without having to worry about accidentally nuking the WoL from an AoE weapon.
I applaud your analysis and overview of the sit-rep here, Nev, but I'll have to ask... Do tell me, please - since I am genuinely curious: You said that the bossfights in WF in general are bad. Okay - I disagree personally, but you ABSOLUTELY *did use* the following points and reasoning: 1. The boss fights (Orowyrm) have too few extra mechanics and when it does have you can sort of skip the phases, and the whole fight is just dps-check on three objects on the 'Wyrms body. 2. The boss fight limits your dps by adaptive damage, damage attenuation and hard-capped dam instance (60eyes boss) - therefore the fight takes too long and there are no extra mechanics involved. Also apparently having to dodge the boss' attacks (WF core movement tech) and having to deal with it's temporary silence-esq-aura isn't engaging combat enough? 3. The boss fight is completed way too fast (Sergeant) because small HP/defensive values and no mechanics (agreed). 4. The boss fights have temporary invulnability phases so it's just dumb waiting simulator. Ok. Gathering all of this information I'll have to deduce that YOU would want a boss fights that a) don't take too long (less than 20min?) but aren't so quickly over that they die in 1-2minutes. b) Any player SHOULD be allowed to do their fullest, raw dps to the boss without any damage attenuation nor adaptive damage resistance nor damage/status capping on the boss - BUT AT THE SAME TIME c) somehow make the boss "not die" in a single hit (so, for example the boss having 3 times the WF damage cap of an health pool then?) IF we are allowed to do our said full, raw dps to the boss unfiltered. d) The boss fight still apparently simultaniously consisting of AT LEAST over 50% of the fight of extra mechanics which NONE of them require nor need shooting/hitting the boss at all but doing something else in the meanwhile - but in overall the mechanics themselves cannot be allowed to consist of actions that would become "too boring" (subjective) in repeated mission playthroughs (in the course of week? month? -long period?). -- I am not trying to be hyperbolic nor accusive here. Like I said - I am genuinely curious, Nev, that how would or should the boss fights be handeled in a game such as WarFrame, IF and WHEN you genuinely claimed that the DE "does not understand how to desing anything at all in their game". How would you do it, then? Solutions, Nev - solutions.
@@John7Wirth There's a lot to say and honestly far too much to explain in a single reply in a comment, but I will do my best to explain. I'll start by simplifying the issues I have with the warframe bosses into some major pain points, and break them down, similar to the way you did but with a bit more clarity. Issue 1: The boss fights in warframe have far too few mechanics, in the worst cases they have none at all. A mechanic for our purposes means an interaction, similar to a "cause and effect" relationship. An example of this would be that I set a specific part of an arena on fire, and that fire can be used to deal damage or stun the boss, giving me a moment to deal some DPS. The way I set the arena on fire could come from a multitude of different tools, say I have heat modded on my weapon, or say I have a heat afflicting ability, if there are no heat sources available from me, I could shoot a nearby explosive container, or deflect a boss projectile as a way to provide the fire to open up the boss to attacks. When discussing the bosses in warframe and their lack of mechanics, most of the bosses are glorified "wait for the healthbar to show up" simulators, because there is no mechanic that I could use to engage with the enemy and deal with it at the pace that I want to do it. Something simple like "use fire" can come from a billion sources, there are frame abilities that set things on fire in various ways, a simple mechanic and a large pool of possibilities opens up the community to discover different strats and develop their own playstyles that make the boss replayable and enjoyable. This goes a step further if you use something like a heat accretion mechanic, a weak ventplate will only show up if a certain amount of heat is maintained on the enemy to vent the heat, so you have to be aggressive with those explosive barrels or have a steady source of fire, and focus on two things at once for added difficulty or engagement. Issues 2&3: Absorbing your damage in non-engaging ways (either mitigating all of it, or none of it.) There is no worse feeling than being a player who knows you are able to deal literal billions of damage, and seeing a fuckin 3000!!! red crit pop up on your screen. Boss enemies *should* aim to absorb large chunks of damage, but they don't need to do it by blatantly removing almost all of it and making you wait for the healthbar to slowly chip away. Lets use our fire boss and it's mechanic to explain what I mean. We'll say that for the large part, in order to open up the fire boss to damage, we would like to spam lots of heat status procs, however, in order to actually deal damage to it, the weakpoint we need to break is specifically status immune, and let's just say it has a particular weakness to gas damage and a total immunity to heat (it's a vent after all, it's purpose is to eject heat, so that makes sense to me.) This directly incentivizes using different parts of your toolkit to do different things, load heat damage on the boss to keep the vents open, but build specifically around hard (maybe crit) DPS for the vent you're trying to break. In this example, the fire boss is mitigating literally ALL of the heat damage, but doing so in an engaging way, and it is directly incentivizing you to instead deal a different kind of damage from a different source, you can still meaningfully pump the enemy full of damage, and even full on one-shot that specific part of the boss if you are powerful enough. This rewards your powerful players by letting them be powerful, letting them absolutely shit all over the damage check but having them meaningfully engage with the mechanics is how you reward your players for being high level, the whole reason I am high level is because I have the means and knowledge to deal mad amounts of damage, let me deal the fuckin damage instead of telling me "nuh-uh! you need to kill the enemy in the same amount of time as that other dude who just started the game a month ago!" This also fixes the "killing things too fast" part of the fights because yea, for a high level player, I will blow the boss to absolute shit with my funny gun and one shot the weakpoints, but I will still do it one at a time, and I will still have to go through the phases and dodge attacks and if it's a particularly skill oriented shot to hit the weakpoints super fast (let's say the boss flails around like a maniac when the vent first pops open, or there's a wave of enemy spawns to deal with, or some other distraction,) then I should be rewarded for having the skill to aim fast and hit hard. Killing the boss too quickly or too slowly as a high level player is not the issue, killing the boss too quickly because there is no impedance at all, or suddenly there's total impedance and you're just sitting there doing nothing; that's the main issue. Issue 4: Invuln Phases done poorly. Having invuln phases is not alone a problem, in fact it's great, but it needs to be done correctly, and it also needs to be done sparsely. Spamming invuln phase after invuln phase after invuln after invuln--it's fucking maddening and it detracts from the fight entirely, because why does the enemy even need to have a healthbar at the top of the screen if it's just gonna be immortal for the first 30s of the fight? Or for a full 30s in the middle...or another 30s towards the end...fuck it have another 30s because fuck you I guess. Invulnerability phases should be used to force players to engage with mechanics and make the bosses feel like you need to do something meaningful to kill them, not to make you sit there and waste your time. An invuln phase should be a MOTIVATOR to DO SOMETHING, and not a DEMOTIVATOR that feels like you have to sit there and wait. A great example of invuln done poorly is the archons. Those fuckers on second phase just instantly go invulnerable if you don't one-shot them, and usually they do it for 2 or 3 attacks BACK TO BACK for no other reason that to waste your time. This gets even more annoying when you consider that well over ⅔ the mission is spent getting to the fight itself, and then getting to the 2nd phase of the fight, which are just another set of long winded invuln phases you spend not fighting the boss. Having invulnerability phases where you have no way to counter them or interact with them, they don't feel earned they feel random and arbitrary, that's the problem. The only archon who I feel has an even remotely good invuln phase is Amar, who's phases feel fair and engaging, and they absorb what I feel is a fair amount of time. Dealing with boreal on the other hand, makes me want to jump off a fucking bridge because his whole gimmick is just counter intuitive and feels like it's meant to buy an absurd length of time. Another really good example of bad invulnerability is general Sargus Ruk, it doesn't matter how fast you think you are, sargus ruk fights will always take the same amount of time, it's actually enough to drive a human being to the brink of insanity, the fastest sargus boss fight is like 20s faster than a normie's first playthrough. Invulnerability should occupy space for special animations, specific wave clear moments, points in time where you're doing something adjacent to fighting the boss, it shouldn't feel forced and random, and it especially shouldn't feel like it's a waste of time. Hopefully that clarifies the 4 major points well enough, so now allow me to clarify what warframe does wrong in specific and why these points are relevant. It would be a lie to say that warframe bosses all have 0 mechanics, or to say that they all die too fast and also all never die because they are all bullet sponges, because those things can't all be true at the same time. Each boss in the game has a different issue or multitude of issues that can be generally expressed as another component of the main issue, which is that warframe's bosses are generally designed poorly and that DE doesn't really know what good boss design is even like. Frustratingly, the closest DE ever got to good boss design was the eidolons and profit taker fights, but those are the only two bosses in warframe that ever felt like bosses, and even then they got power crept out of meaningful challenge and never really had any relevance or attachment to the main game. (you only need to PT farm credits if you are super high value trader as other credit methods are typically less effort, and eidolons for focus progression doesn't mean much to the majority of players, especially with the newest stuff like circuit throwing focus at you like crazy.) Bosses are one of warframe's weakest points, they don't have enough impact on gameplay to be considered "bosses" to me, they are just kinda annoying enemies who like to invlun more frequently than others, and that's the biggest issue I have with them. They aren't impactful, tbh the average nullifier eximus at level 900 is more of "boss" than all of the star chart bosses combined if we're talking about impact or relevance. I would much rather see more eidolon style fights than the stuff we've been getting for the past 4 updates, because holy shit do these recent bosses feel like garbage in comparison.
@@nev546 Alright. Fair enough. I actually agree on all of that. Well explained, and good points! I personally still enjoy most of WF boss fights, but I would absolutely love them more if they added these types of mechanics more of what you just suggested. 10/10 answer, mad respect, bro 🤝.
5:57:10 Allow me to explain in clear detail what happened here and what led to the mission failing here.
Our plan to stall the round revolves around using Trinity's first ability Well of Life to suspend the enemy and make that enemy pseudo immortal, so that the round does not end and start the next wave. This allows us to do things like take breaks and go to the bathroom, get snacks, etc. since we'll be in the mission for hours on end. Using Garuda's Death well actually ends the round apparently, so the only other way to do something like this would be with something like a limbo banish, Xaku's gaze ends the round as well. The issue with WoL, Xaku's Gaze, and Garuda's Blood Altar is that they all store the damage dealt to the enemy and release said damage when the ability timer ends, Limbo's banish actually has a very brief moment of downtime where the enemy can do damage, and when there is a brief moment for the enemy to deal damage, it will kill the defense target. The downtime for WoL is spent with the suspended enemy doing an animation that prevents it from shooting, meaning that perma-stalling an enemy with WoL is just better for this specific application. Using Perma-ragdoll states like Vazrin's vortex can end up killing the enemy after a while, since the game has a ragdoll timer check to prevent enemies from taking up the spawn cap if they fall off the map. Basically if an enemy is ragdoll for too long, and it's not a special enemy like an acolyte, then it will just die and the round will progress.
The problem we ran into was purely one of bad luck, the Acolyte that spawned was Malice, the summoner. Malice has two forms, one that summons additional acolytes that scales with the number of people in the squad, and one that doesn't. Summoner Malice has a particularly annoying behavior, where upon spawning, he will immediately lock his HP with a gray state and sacrifice 1/3 of it to conjure some infested crawlers, these crawlers are usually just annoying, but because the acolytes do not share faction with enemies, they will also sometimes attack enemies and deal damage to them. This is a problem for us, because WoL stores ALL damage dealt to the target, including enemy damage from opposing factions, and wouldn't you know it, one of the crawlers had slipped away and began attacking our enemy that we were using to stall the round.
All of the weapons I happened to have on me were AoE weapons, meaning that it was very much impossible for me to attack the crawler and not end up dealing damage to the enemy we were trying to use to stall the round (in hindsight, Maybe I could have used energy vampire on the crawler, but I think that it wouldn't deal enough damage in time to prevent the death of the stalled enemy ((the acolytes don't get stunned by EV, and usually their summons don't either)), and if I happened to hit the WoL target, it would have also killed the guy, as he was viral primed from my panzer kitty.) When I requested help with killing the "acolyte guy" I had thrown a ping on the crawler, but I realize now that I didn't clarify or mention the crawler at all when I thought I had, and gamble had already begun working on taking out the main acolyte, so he didn't come help take out the little ankle biter that was slowly killing our WoL guy.
Taking out Misery was not a bad call from gamble, as misery could also end up targeting the defense pod end up failing the mission as well, I just needed somebody to help me the stupid crawler off the WoL target as we were kinda running out of time, every recast of WoL left the target with less and less HP, and I had nothing to kill the summon that was doing the damage. Mango was busy moving the specter summons away from the fight, as he didn't want the specters to end up targeting the WoL target and also ending the round, meaning that nobody actually had the ability to prevent the crawler from killing the stall.
After summoner misery hits the 1/3 HP threshold, he locks his HP in a gray state again, and summons additional acolytes into the mission, this second set of summons can contain mania, violence, and angst, all of whom can use their entire ability set and also have no assigned faction (meaning they target the surrounding enemies as well as tenno) and you might see where we lost it all. When an Acolyte spawns it picks at random who it wants to beef with, and this includes the Misery summons, so when 1 of the 6 summons booked it over to start attacking me and the WoL (another layer of bad luck,) the WoL target died as soon as the ability ran out; gamble and mango did not make it over to me in time to prevent the summon from nut checking the WoL and ending the stall. There was a brief moment where we could have recovered the stall, by saving the acolyte summons and not letting the round end that way, but one of the specters came over and shut that idea down entirely, which is just more bad luck. The round ended, and we now needed to defend the target with literally nothing that could be used to help prevent the enemies from dealing damage.
The round ended with an unsuccessful stall and at 6:00:25 during the next round, a singular enemy had managed to slip through all the CC and specters we threw down and killed the defense target in two shots, as there is no shield gate for defense targets. The enemy had Effectively "one-shot" it as the entire healthbar was depleted in ~24 frames, there was no time for anybody to react or find the target and save the round, it was over before we ever had the chance. The lesson we learned from this is that as the trin player, I should be bringing Single Target DPS tools and specifically should be on the Acolyte busting duty, that way if we need to stall, I can protect the target from acos without having to worry about accidentally nuking the WoL from an AoE weapon.
I applaud your analysis and overview of the sit-rep here, Nev, but I'll have to ask...
Do tell me, please - since I am genuinely curious: You said that the bossfights in WF in general are bad. Okay - I disagree personally, but you ABSOLUTELY *did use* the following points and reasoning: 1. The boss fights (Orowyrm) have too few extra mechanics and when it does have you can sort of skip the phases, and the whole fight is just dps-check on three objects on the 'Wyrms body. 2. The boss fight limits your dps by adaptive damage, damage attenuation and hard-capped dam instance (60eyes boss) - therefore the fight takes too long and there are no extra mechanics involved. Also apparently having to dodge the boss' attacks (WF core movement tech) and having to deal with it's temporary silence-esq-aura isn't engaging combat enough? 3. The boss fight is completed way too fast (Sergeant) because small HP/defensive values and no mechanics (agreed). 4. The boss fights have temporary invulnability phases so it's just dumb waiting simulator. Ok.
Gathering all of this information I'll have to deduce that YOU would want a boss fights that a) don't take too long (less than 20min?) but aren't so quickly over that they die in 1-2minutes. b) Any player SHOULD be allowed to do their fullest, raw dps to the boss without any damage attenuation nor adaptive damage resistance nor damage/status capping on the boss - BUT AT THE SAME TIME c) somehow make the boss "not die" in a single hit (so, for example the boss having 3 times the WF damage cap of an health pool then?) IF we are allowed to do our said full, raw dps to the boss unfiltered. d) The boss fight still apparently simultaniously consisting of AT LEAST over 50% of the fight of extra mechanics which NONE of them require nor need shooting/hitting the boss at all but doing something else in the meanwhile - but in overall the mechanics themselves cannot be allowed to consist of actions that would become "too boring" (subjective) in repeated mission playthroughs (in the course of week? month? -long period?). --
I am not trying to be hyperbolic nor accusive here. Like I said - I am genuinely curious, Nev, that how would or should the boss fights be handeled in a game such as WarFrame, IF and WHEN you genuinely claimed that the DE "does not understand how to desing anything at all in their game". How would you do it, then? Solutions, Nev - solutions.
@@John7Wirth There's a lot to say and honestly far too much to explain in a single reply in a comment, but I will do my best to explain. I'll start by simplifying the issues I have with the warframe bosses into some major pain points, and break them down, similar to the way you did but with a bit more clarity.
Issue 1: The boss fights in warframe have far too few mechanics, in the worst cases they have none at all. A mechanic for our purposes means an interaction, similar to a "cause and effect" relationship. An example of this would be that I set a specific part of an arena on fire, and that fire can be used to deal damage or stun the boss, giving me a moment to deal some DPS. The way I set the arena on fire could come from a multitude of different tools, say I have heat modded on my weapon, or say I have a heat afflicting ability, if there are no heat sources available from me, I could shoot a nearby explosive container, or deflect a boss projectile as a way to provide the fire to open up the boss to attacks. When discussing the bosses in warframe and their lack of mechanics, most of the bosses are glorified "wait for the healthbar to show up" simulators, because there is no mechanic that I could use to engage with the enemy and deal with it at the pace that I want to do it. Something simple like "use fire" can come from a billion sources, there are frame abilities that set things on fire in various ways, a simple mechanic and a large pool of possibilities opens up the community to discover different strats and develop their own playstyles that make the boss replayable and enjoyable. This goes a step further if you use something like a heat accretion mechanic, a weak ventplate will only show up if a certain amount of heat is maintained on the enemy to vent the heat, so you have to be aggressive with those explosive barrels or have a steady source of fire, and focus on two things at once for added difficulty or engagement.
Issues 2&3: Absorbing your damage in non-engaging ways (either mitigating all of it, or none of it.) There is no worse feeling than being a player who knows you are able to deal literal billions of damage, and seeing a fuckin 3000!!! red crit pop up on your screen. Boss enemies *should* aim to absorb large chunks of damage, but they don't need to do it by blatantly removing almost all of it and making you wait for the healthbar to slowly chip away. Lets use our fire boss and it's mechanic to explain what I mean. We'll say that for the large part, in order to open up the fire boss to damage, we would like to spam lots of heat status procs, however, in order to actually deal damage to it, the weakpoint we need to break is specifically status immune, and let's just say it has a particular weakness to gas damage and a total immunity to heat (it's a vent after all, it's purpose is to eject heat, so that makes sense to me.) This directly incentivizes using different parts of your toolkit to do different things, load heat damage on the boss to keep the vents open, but build specifically around hard (maybe crit) DPS for the vent you're trying to break. In this example, the fire boss is mitigating literally ALL of the heat damage, but doing so in an engaging way, and it is directly incentivizing you to instead deal a different kind of damage from a different source, you can still meaningfully pump the enemy full of damage, and even full on one-shot that specific part of the boss if you are powerful enough. This rewards your powerful players by letting them be powerful, letting them absolutely shit all over the damage check but having them meaningfully engage with the mechanics is how you reward your players for being high level, the whole reason I am high level is because I have the means and knowledge to deal mad amounts of damage, let me deal the fuckin damage instead of telling me "nuh-uh! you need to kill the enemy in the same amount of time as that other dude who just started the game a month ago!" This also fixes the "killing things too fast" part of the fights because yea, for a high level player, I will blow the boss to absolute shit with my funny gun and one shot the weakpoints, but I will still do it one at a time, and I will still have to go through the phases and dodge attacks and if it's a particularly skill oriented shot to hit the weakpoints super fast (let's say the boss flails around like a maniac when the vent first pops open, or there's a wave of enemy spawns to deal with, or some other distraction,) then I should be rewarded for having the skill to aim fast and hit hard. Killing the boss too quickly or too slowly as a high level player is not the issue, killing the boss too quickly because there is no impedance at all, or suddenly there's total impedance and you're just sitting there doing nothing; that's the main issue.
Issue 4: Invuln Phases done poorly. Having invuln phases is not alone a problem, in fact it's great, but it needs to be done correctly, and it also needs to be done sparsely. Spamming invuln phase after invuln phase after invuln after invuln--it's fucking maddening and it detracts from the fight entirely, because why does the enemy even need to have a healthbar at the top of the screen if it's just gonna be immortal for the first 30s of the fight? Or for a full 30s in the middle...or another 30s towards the end...fuck it have another 30s because fuck you I guess. Invulnerability phases should be used to force players to engage with mechanics and make the bosses feel like you need to do something meaningful to kill them, not to make you sit there and waste your time. An invuln phase should be a MOTIVATOR to DO SOMETHING, and not a DEMOTIVATOR that feels like you have to sit there and wait. A great example of invuln done poorly is the archons. Those fuckers on second phase just instantly go invulnerable if you don't one-shot them, and usually they do it for 2 or 3 attacks BACK TO BACK for no other reason that to waste your time. This gets even more annoying when you consider that well over ⅔ the mission is spent getting to the fight itself, and then getting to the 2nd phase of the fight, which are just another set of long winded invuln phases you spend not fighting the boss. Having invulnerability phases where you have no way to counter them or interact with them, they don't feel earned they feel random and arbitrary, that's the problem. The only archon who I feel has an even remotely good invuln phase is Amar, who's phases feel fair and engaging, and they absorb what I feel is a fair amount of time. Dealing with boreal on the other hand, makes me want to jump off a fucking bridge because his whole gimmick is just counter intuitive and feels like it's meant to buy an absurd length of time. Another really good example of bad invulnerability is general Sargus Ruk, it doesn't matter how fast you think you are, sargus ruk fights will always take the same amount of time, it's actually enough to drive a human being to the brink of insanity, the fastest sargus boss fight is like 20s faster than a normie's first playthrough. Invulnerability should occupy space for special animations, specific wave clear moments, points in time where you're doing something adjacent to fighting the boss, it shouldn't feel forced and random, and it especially shouldn't feel like it's a waste of time.
Hopefully that clarifies the 4 major points well enough, so now allow me to clarify what warframe does wrong in specific and why these points are relevant. It would be a lie to say that warframe bosses all have 0 mechanics, or to say that they all die too fast and also all never die because they are all bullet sponges, because those things can't all be true at the same time. Each boss in the game has a different issue or multitude of issues that can be generally expressed as another component of the main issue, which is that warframe's bosses are generally designed poorly and that DE doesn't really know what good boss design is even like. Frustratingly, the closest DE ever got to good boss design was the eidolons and profit taker fights, but those are the only two bosses in warframe that ever felt like bosses, and even then they got power crept out of meaningful challenge and never really had any relevance or attachment to the main game. (you only need to PT farm credits if you are super high value trader as other credit methods are typically less effort, and eidolons for focus progression doesn't mean much to the majority of players, especially with the newest stuff like circuit throwing focus at you like crazy.) Bosses are one of warframe's weakest points, they don't have enough impact on gameplay to be considered "bosses" to me, they are just kinda annoying enemies who like to invlun more frequently than others, and that's the biggest issue I have with them. They aren't impactful, tbh the average nullifier eximus at level 900 is more of "boss" than all of the star chart bosses combined if we're talking about impact or relevance. I would much rather see more eidolon style fights than the stuff we've been getting for the past 4 updates, because holy shit do these recent bosses feel like garbage in comparison.
@@nev546 Alright. Fair enough. I actually agree on all of that. Well explained, and good points! I personally still enjoy most of WF boss fights, but I would absolutely love them more if they added these types of mechanics more of what you just suggested. 10/10 answer, mad respect, bro 🤝.
Lesson learned, catheter to pee in a bag, and a suport team to bring food and water. That way you never need to get up.
Mission impossible
Fun fact, I live relatively close to the original KFC but have never been there
It was at this moment that HE knew, he fcked up 6:00:26 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
But no joke: You guys are absolutely insanely powerful O_o
Its insane, due to this little fcking crawler??? I feel very sorry for you all 😔🫂
Stuff like that happens especially at the later levels xP. oh well, lesson learned, next time, deal with acolyte quickly
It also shows how organized and prepared they all have to be.