Sorry about the video being out of focus for a while midway through! Check out my linktree for more: linktr.ee/filipholm Support Let's Talk Religion on Patreon: www.patreon.com/letstalkreligion Or through a one-time donation: www.paypal.com/paypalme/letstalkreligion Also check out the Let's Talk Religion Podcast: open.spotify.com/show/0ih4sqtWv0wRIhS6HFgerb?si=95b07d83d0254b
No worries about the focus! I was finally able to make out some of the smaller titles on your bookshelf. Made my day. 😊 There is always a silver lining.
Great job, as usual, but especially this time, because you broached a most important thread in "connecting the dots." Reason leads directly to mysticism when Reason is indeed followed faithfully. (Irrationalism too often masquerades as rationalism in this world of limitation, which believes that rationalism is to try and reduce limitless and abstract Truth to a limited and finite understanding!) And Parmenides is key to illustrating this connection (between the West and the East), as my book makes clear. Limitation must be recognized as IRRATIONAL (by definition) in order to make room for The Rational in one's mind. And "The Philosopher's Stone" is then found to be the foundation of all truly rational (whole) Thought; The Philosopher's Stone being the simple and yet most profound fact that "GOD" is The Mind that is ALL. There it is. But one has not FOUND the Philosopher's Stone until one has found very good reason to believe that this is true! Experience is required.
This was a fantastically thorough yet concise overview of a vast subject I've been studying for decades. You brought together many disparate threads elegantly. I had never heard that Plutarch quote on the Eleusinian mysteries, so thanks for including that. Thanks as always Filip!
@@LetsTalkReligion It brings me so much joy to see this particular community of creators in the philisophy, esotericism, occultism, mysticism and religion genre thrive and interact with one another. Growing up in my teens when UA-cam was created I didn't have the luxery of what you few wonderful folk have woven together with academic yet open minded approaches but instead was autofed biased religious propaganda, biased atheist propaganda, insane conspiracy theories and people who in retrospect had severe mental illnessness bringing in others into their delusions (both spreading delusions and imbedding further those of the creator in themselves). Even later in my life when I joined the OTO I thought the information I was getting was going to be more accurate but it turns out Crowley didn't really know much about the Eleusinian Mysteries or Gnosticism but put both as main themes to his philosophy. I'm glad I left the OTO and have begun walking my own path... a path in which you folk have played a key part. I came close to closing the door on anything but personsl direct mystical experiences and studying non-wooey science like physics and chemistry to understand reality and try to find possible explanations for ineffable and implausible experiences I've had on my journey... but the videos created by both of you and Justin and Angela and many others like Seekers of Unity and the rest of the gang refueled my love for history and philosophy, symbolism and the study of how others (not just my own direct experiences) understand reality and consciousness, divinity and the nature of the individual. Thank you. May your lives be full of love, light, insight, revelation and excitement :) Edit: note I still love science and view it as my primary "religion" not in the scientism sense but in the sense that to me by definition if one were to take all experimentally sound science known in the past, present and yet to be future you end up describing the workings and nature of Divinity itself. All i meant was I nearly stopped studying and appreciating correlating my mystical experiences with my love of science when I let go of dogmatic Thelema
@@LetsTalkReligion @LetsTalkReligion It brings me so much joy to see this particular community of creators in the philisophy, esotericism, occultism, mysticism and religion genre thrive and interact with one another. Growing up in my teens when UA-cam was created I didn't have the luxery of what you few wonderful folk have woven together with academic yet open minded approaches but instead was autofed biased religious propaganda, biased atheist propaganda, insane conspiracy theories and people who in retrospect had severe mental illnessness bringing in others into their delusions (both spreading delusions and imbedding further those of the creator in themselves). Even later in my life when I joined the OTO I thought the information I was getting was going to be more accurate but it turns out Crowley didn't really know much about the Eleusinian Mysteries or Gnosticism but put both as main themes to his philosophy. I'm glad I left the OTO and have begun walking my own path... a path in which you folk have played a key part. I came close to closing the door on anything but personsl direct mystical experiences and studying non-wooey science like physics and chemistry to understand reality and try to find possible explanations for ineffable and implausible experiences I've had on my journey... but the videos created by both of you and Justin and Angela and many others like Seekers rereading what I wrote I realized it may sound like you all turned me against science when the opposite is true! I still love science and view it as my primary "religion" not in the scientism sense but in the sense that to me by definition if one were to take all experimentally sound science known in the past, present and yet to be future you end up describing the workings and nature of Divinity itself. All i meant was I nearly stopped studying and appreciating correlating my mystical experiences with my love of science when I let go of dogmatic Thelema and left the OTO
This deep dive into the mystical and philosophical aspects of ancient Greece challenges the commonly held perception of this era as solely the cradle of rationalism and logic. It's intriguing to see how deeply intertwined mysticism, altered states of consciousness, and religious practices were with the philosophical inquiries of figures like Plato, Parmenides, and Socrates. The exploration of mystery cults, the Eleusinian Mysteries, and the Bacchic rituals, alongside the philosophical mysticism evident in Plato's dialogues, underscores a complex culture where the quest for knowledge encompassed both the rational and the transcendental. It's a reminder that our ancestors recognized multiple pathways to understanding reality, valuing both the intellect and experiences beyond the ordinary. This video serves as a compelling invitation to reconsider our historical narratives and acknowledge the rich panorama of human thought and spiritual exploration in ancient Greece. Thank you for shedding light on this often overlooked aspect of ancient Greek culture and inviting us to broaden our understanding of their legacy.
Thank you for making this video. These ideas, the role of mysticism in ancient Greek philosophy, this is how my professor Tom Trelogan introduced his students to ancient philosophy, and it kindled my love for the search and study of wisdom/truth.
Yeah, I agree. Notice how the initiation rituals in the mystery cults involve a symbolic death and rebirth by reenacting the experience of a deity who either dies and resurrects (Dionysus, Osiris, the sun god in the Isis mysteries) or goes down into the underworld and rises out of it (Persephone/Kore, the sun in the Isis mysteries). Now read Paul's interpretation of baptism where he describes it as a ritual death and resurrection/rebirth that emulates the death and resurrection of Jesus. All of these cults and Christianity offer salvation from death or a happy afterlife. A lot of these rituals are found in the ancient Egyptian mortuary cult which revolved around the deaths and resurrections of Osiris and the sun god. Diodorus Siculus in his Library of Histories 1.96.4-6 writes: "Orpheus, for instance, brought from Egypt most of his mystic ceremonies, the orgiastic rites that accompanied his wanderings, and his fabulous account of his experiences in Hades. For the rite of Osiris is the same as that of Dionysus and that of Isis very similar to that of Demeter, the names alone having been interchanged; and the punishments in Hades of the unrighteous, the Fields of the Righteous, and the fantastic conceptions, current among the many, which are figments of the imagination - *all these were introduced by Orpheus in imitation of the Egyptian funeral customs."*
this is such a timely video for me, i am working on a long piece about lot's wife as a prototypical mystic, that a turn back toward the divine (even in horror, as your video mentions) leaves one totally changed. thank you for another great video
I had similar experiences. I do not know, what I should write here - maybe... okey: there was some event, where I got in fear of dying, and suddenly it switched over to some kind of bliss. Or maybe it was real bliss. I do not know. First I was kind of fighting death for a while, but then I thought: let it happen, let it happen... And then it switched over. It was a real and full release and also a full surrender to it. I got calm and blissful, my spine grew warm, very pleasantly warm. My breath was calm, free, and healthy. It was an unbelievable experience. It lasted for about 3 hours or so - this very strong experience. I totally lost fear and got somehow free. (Maybe this was something which is called here in this video "initiation"? I don't know.) Then I had reflections on many things. I also thought - in the face of death - what should I do with my life, with my remaining lifetime? Living the positive only, that was my decision. Living what is the good thing, the right thing, the positive thing - what I consider positive. Being it. Doing it. I made this decision just for me and myself in this process - I mean it was a totally individual decision -, and I stayed with it since then. Later, when this kind of strong experience was over I remained in a thinking process for quite a while, right after this very intensive experience and also for a month or so at least. Again and again I had to think about it, about many issues. It was not a strong and strict way of thinking, more a soft and revealing way. Again and again I got new and smart thoughts, I saw connections, and many things became very obvious to me. It was one of the strongest experiences of my life, maybe the strongest. To some other points of the video: "Yes", it is all about the soul, I fully understand what is said about the Greek philosophers and their statements. I completely agree. And this issue of life after death: maybe what I experienced was already something like that? It was overcoming death.
I think this is my favorite episode I've watched so far. Kudos from someone who has had mystic experiences and has been seeking meaning from, and exploring them for many years. Thank you. 🙏🏼💜✨
Could you potentially share a few? I have been plagued by terrible nightmares of what I believe to be the afterlife, one nightmare, I rode into a town called “Lou”. I was on a very tired and ragged looking ass or mule. I dismount outside of a building simply marked “HOTEL” in big letters, and go in to get a room. I do not remember seeing someone behind the counter, and I should mention, I felt every sensation as if it was something I was doing in real life. I go to the room and lay down, instantly falling asleep. When I awake, the room is dark, and the window is broken with boards covering it. It’s also very dirty, not like someone trashed it, but like it had been abandoned for decades, maybe even over a century. I walk out of the room and go outside, the lobby is also in a state of decay. There are voices whispering all around me, kind of like they were gossiping about me, despite the empty streets. I cannot decipher what they said, it sounded inhuman though. My mule/ass is dead and rotting, the smell was sickening but there were no flies. I stood and stared for a minute before feeling dread, and turning around. And there I saw it. A jet black panther, or maybe lioness? I looked into its eyes, which were blood red instead of green like a normal cat’s eyes, and I felt, I don’t know, the feeling I felt is impossible to describe. In its eyes I saw evil, I saw suffering, everything horrible in this world and I saw many images of human cruelty that seemed to flash before my eyes. I began to weep, and the dread was replaced by a fear I wish to never experience again. It began to move, which made me sprint at full speed away. I ran for what felt like an hour, and when I began, the voices went from whispering words I couldn’t understand, to screams of terror and pain, very guttural, horrifying screams. I looked back, the panther was chasing me now. Eventually, after a while, just as the panther is gaining on me I see a white elephant covered in beautiful Mandela patterns that were gold and silver and color. The feeling I felt when I saw it was hope, overwhelming hope. I got closer to her, and just as the panther was pouncing, I jumped out and grabbed ahold of the elephant’s trunk, tightly hugging it. A great comforting warmth washed over me, it felt like love, and joy, and all the positive feelings you could imagine. When I woke up in real life, immediately after grabbing the elephant’s trunk, I was sweaty and my hands were clasped together over my chest, which I normally wouldn’t even put a second thought to but after that dream it didn’t feel like a coincidence.
Man, every time I was about to ask a question, you answered it, particularly with regards to Plato's Esoteric teachings that he kept private to his closest pupils and confidantes. It leads me to believe he kept a somewhat gnostic view that direct experience is the only way to reveal truth and some things cannot be related through mere explanation or definition bound by the limitations of language.
Mysticism in ancient Greece was very good. Nero requested initiation into the Eleusinian mysteries, and they refused. Now you'd expect them all to be executed, right? But they weren't. That's how highly-respected the Eleusinian initiates were.
Thank you so much Filip for yet another insightful, thought provoking video on a fascinating topic. It seems like there are many commonalities between these mystery cults and what we collectively call Tantra or Tantric practices in the Hindu-Buddhist tradition. Perhaps there existed an earlier, common origin? is there any indication of there being a mystical tradition in ancent Egypt, ancient mesopotamia or deep within proto-indo European sprititual beliefs? Would love to learn more!
Honestly, I'd like you to do videos: 1) The maniots who practiced Greek paganism up until the 9th century, as they've pretty interesting as an ethnic subgroup of Greeks. 2) Modern-day Neopaganism in Greece as well, as it'd be cool to see how they compare to their ancient ancestors.
I would, in fact, also be very interested in seeing how acutely he can try to identify and coalesce modern locations of divine attributes and “gods” in our seemingly secular globalized society
Great video! Would love to see some content on mystery schools, such as the Rosicrucian order, The Golden Dawn, Freemasonry, pretty much western esotericism
despite this being a topic that I felt like I had nearly exhausted, you have once again brought it back in an engaging, fresh, and interesting video. thank you so much, Filip!
Excellent, what it caught my attention is something that I've been thinking about for the last four years, and that is Poetry as a tool in mysticism. Once you start to see religions as an anthropological or social phenomenon, you can easily get the whole picture.
For this Aristotelian, the Baccic frenzy of philosophy was such an intense love for ideas that sleep was banished, replaced by the desire to know and the total awe of my own self’s capacity to know.
Thank you so much for this series. I am doing a part time PhD on mysticism which had its origins in an interest in the similarities between ancient Greek and Indian thought. The resistance of scholars even now to the idea that philosophy was anything other than rational argumentation is striking though it is gradually beginning to change.
This is an insanely interesting topic!! As a Greek who has started noticing similarities between Ancient Greek and Indian language and spirituality, I would very much like to read parts of your thesis (if possible), or relevant material.
Listening again, Filip. Thank you!!! Dionysius, The Elder, an ancient ruler of Syracuse in Sicily, about 430 B. C. When Siclily was invaded by the Carthaninians, he became a general in the service of Syaracuse, which then was a republic. In that year 406 he made himself a "tyrant" or ruler of Syracuse. He later continued the war agaist the Carthaninians, and was at first defeated, but afterwards gained a complete victory. He also engaged in many other military expeditions , and was one of the most important rulers of his time. Not content with his military reknown, he wrote poems and tragedies and at one time gained a prize at Athens for tragic poetry. He died in 367 b.c. Diogenes, the famous Greek philosopher from about 412 to 323 b.c. I could on and on but i will just listen to you, I cannot write fast enough on these technological cellphones. The lens of visionaries. Who tudors who? If only Socrates had a daughter, women are not second hand citizens, but where they in all of philosophy? You are a genius, Filip, and may I add I have learned many things from your videos and I thank you. By the way, your music is sublime. 🙏❤️🌎🌿🕊🎶🎵🎶
There were Ancient Greek women who taught philosophy and we do have the teaching of some of them. That being said, the records we have tend to be later than Plato et cetera.
I really enjoyed this video. It's practically a short summary for my college course my professor made. However, he titled it "Greek Religion". We did get to learn why the word choice of religion was poor and other substitutes, like "mysticism" and "ritualistic activities". Very nice to be able to have all of this material put together to help me comprehend his studies. Thank you!
GREAT video, Filip! Heck - you just barely skimmed the surface of an incredibly vast and oceanic subject. And this video was very much needed, as too many people nowadays think of classical Greek philosophy merely as a dry, academic rationalism, and nothing more. Subsequent videos could go more into depth on each of these philosophers and mystery religions: Dionysus / Bacchus, Orpheus and the Orphics, the Eleusinian Mysteries, Plato, Plotinus, Pythagoras and much, much more! Being so far removed historically from the mystical or mystery aspects of ancient Greek religion and philosophy, it seems like we have lost many of the details, and must speculate or extrapolate in places. But as fearless seekers after truth, we must persist in this quest for divine knowledge. And the influence of classical Greek philosophy and the mystery religions on Christianity should not be overlooked either - that is an incredibly important subject, but sadly, too little known or appreciated.
Thank you for this wonderful overview. It inspired a few further researches here. One more association came up, that would need further research: Going into a cave, drinking something, coming out as real initiate and having "overcome death" is ancient and all over the world to be found. Not an academic research but still well done and inspiring is that of Freddy Silva.
Very vital part that was missed is Diotima's speech through socrates, in Symposium. Where textbook mystical terminology is utilised to express the different states of Eros. Also the Mysteries of Samothrace Kaveiria, and the Cretan mysteries in the cave "Zeus grew up" that are considered to be the highest initiation in the divine.
Excellent job covering a complex topic. Since you asked what we're interested in, I'm interested in learning more about the history and evolution of Hermeticism from ancient times to the modern day - e.g. how much are modern quasi-Hermetic movements such as the Golden Dawn, Thelema, or the ONA directly influenced by ancient Hermeticism and how much are they modern reinterpretations? Also, I'm interested in Minoan religion, as the Ancient Greece Revisited channel has made some videos indicating a dichotomy between the matriarchal religion of the Minoans and the patriarchal religion(s) of later Greeks.
I'm still in 4:30 but I must note that I find a parallel between the muses that inspire poetry and Shayateen Al Shir (Demons/Spirits of Poetry) which were also believed to inspire the poet, according to the ancient Arabs! (I'm going to use my replies as personal notes)
The part about Baccheia reminded me of what later became known as Female Hysteria, medically (unfortunately) but more than that the ritual of Zaar in Sudan and Egypt, still going on today, which strictly involves women.
The Elusinian cult and simulating death, as release and transformation is the same idea in the Death tarot card. Death is synonymous with transformation in tarot. It is also seen as new beginnings. The involvement of music reminds me of Sufi rituals which also resulted in attaining a higher state of consciousness.
Yes finally somebody that speaks about greek mysticism, i would add, those that we call philosophers, some of them, most of them, were mystics. Like pitagora, socrate, platone, dionige, seneca, empedocle, eraclito, parmenide, and many others where all wise mystics, mostly belinging to the "jnana yoga" shool.
@@LetsTalkReligion Hi! I define Mysticism as "everything that has to do with experience of the Divine", here the Key words are two "experience" and "Divine", experience because Mystics do not speak about God, do not belive about God, they have experiences, that are emprical to them. Divine and not God because usually God gives an idea of a Person, there Is also the "Person" but that Is not the deepest nature of "God", so the Divine Is more generale and more in tune with mysticism, the Divine Is that wich It the Self of all, the Absolute Reality. So i define Mystics in different levels, starting from where the experience of the Devine begins. Here with the Divine i mean where That "more" reality begins to enter in the mystic's life, in different forms. As soon as One begins to have experiences of the Divine, that i put It among Mystics. Even thou usually every time i use the word i specify in wich level i consider that to be. The highest level Is "Jana" (in hindu terminology), where one loses any sense of duality and separation and there Is only the Self that experience Himself as Absolute Bliss-Counscisness-Being, permanently, and this Is the difference,, so most of those that we call Saints or Mystics where not in this Higher state, but where in lower good state, like Bakhtas or Devotes ecc. In Christian Mysticism almos no mystic has riched this very advanced "state", (i put state in " " because It Is not a state, It Is our Natural "state"! It Is our Self, that Is way Is called Sahaja Samadhi), i don't Say this do discharge christian Mystics that i love a lot, but It Is a fact, One in Christian Mysticism Who went close to Jnana Is meister eckhart, but the Highest form of Realization we find them in India and in some areas with Buddhism. So surely Socrate, Platone, ecc were not the highest form of Mystics but surely they had deep develoment and advanced state of mind, their knowledge has strong mystical tendencies and can only be direct because there was not all the modern new age in wich Is very common to speak with no experience, and no reserch on NDEs or Reincarnation, so Who they got all those knowledge by themselves and all that wisdom about desires, peace, detachment, Reincarnation ecc, they had deep spiritual exiriences. That Is way i said them to be Mystics, some more some less. Even thous there was not religion as we mean It there at those times, they reached the same good levels of Mystic experience Just by philosofy and correct use of intelligence, they understood that desideres and pleasur of the senses brings the mind down to confusion and then applying the methods of wise detached egoless living they reached Deep state of peace , and this Is already Mysticism because Peace Is the Self or God. Union with God Is Just the dissolution of the restless Thoughts that make you belive you are separate from the Self, but in reality you are already the Self! So even withouth religions, visions, ecc, Just with intelligence and wisdom they did reach Deep myistical realizations, as every man can do Just by Understanding He Is Him self eternal peace. Thank you , have a good day🙏
This was such a great video and very refreshing look at Greek philosophy! I highly recommend that you check out the work of Pierre Grimes since I think he does a fantastic job making mystical connections with Platonic philosophy. He goes into how we translate Plato as well, and how much of what academics say today regarding his philosophy is often misconstrued and disregards anything that could be seen as mysticism.
I'm seeing a lot of connections here with the troubadours and the notion of love which seems very platonic in nature, likely through the latin authors and islamic thinkers prior. I'd be interested in seeing a future video on the idea of the plontius union with pyche and that part of the nous left in the upper world, and what connections you can draw to it, focusing on love across traditions as you know it. Seems like alchemy is there too.
As usual expertly done. Your discourse of Greek mysticism makes it abundantly clear of the commonality of many ancient so called mystical practices. In these degenerative times we live in now, Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism practices make it possible for one to reach enlightenment in one lifetime minus the Gods influence, who are also trapped in the Samaric realms, as they were back then. American Gods series written by British author Neil Gaiman now on Starz, is very insightful and entertaining how the Gods life cycle plays out in the human realm.
In college during the early 1980s, I always read Plato through a mystical lens. It got me into a lot of trouble with the professors and, ultimately, with the college administration.
It was the early 1980s, so we all had Hamilton and Cairns “Plato’s Collected Dialogues.” I also studied some ancient Greek…so played around on that level. But, yes, I’m sure there are better translations out there now. Hackett? For mystical initiations and teachings, I went to Tibetan Buddhism (Vajrayana Dzogchen). A backround in Western Philosophy helped me to cut to the chase.
Its great.. wonderful... opening and plugging a hole in rationalist interpretation. Im so glad you didnt allow the screamimg academic in you to put out the kindling embers of YOUR soul Filip. The Living Flame of Love needs these torches. Go for it. And the idea that beauty and love, wherever we find it in the everyday even... are the kindling potential we all need...to propel us into our soul nature....and to a stable source of refuge in these troubled crisis ridden times. This teaching is a must. Thank you.
A wonderful video as always. I’m actually in the middle of reading Peter Kingsley’s Ancient Philosophy, Mystery, and Magic which also covers Pythagoreanism, Orpheus and Plato, so this is a nice bit of synchronicity for me. I would encourage you to read Bruce Lincoln’s Waters of Memory, Waters of Forgetfulness, and Erick Dodge’s Orpheus, Odin, and the Indo-European Underworld, both of which talk about the connections between Orphic and other Indo-European traditions. Also, may be a good subject for a video too? Thanks again.
Nice, I'm really looking forward for thisone! 🤩 Thanks for the profound insights you share! Your content has not only broadened my understanding of various religions and cultures but also gave me a deeper insight into myself. 🌞🌺 One video that particularly resonated with me was your exploration of Lal Ded. It left me so inspired that I've decided to delve into the subject further on my own. Now I'm writing a paper an preparing a talk about her. However, I'm facing difficulty finding a high-res version of the cover image you used in your video about Lal Ded. I only find low-res versions. Could you kindly guide me to the source of the high-quality image ore share it with me? 🙏💓 I wish you continued success in your efforts to build bridges between cultures. Your work is truly making a positive impact and I look forward to more enlightening content from your channel!
What a coincidence 😆 In fact, I was also desperately looking for a high-resolution image of the oil painting Filip used in the cover picture of the Video about Lalleshwari. I wanted to frame and hang it in my ashram room, but I can only find it in poor quality.
I think the one I used was an AI-resolution-enhanced version of the lower res image. Also, I have been told afterwards that the image might not originally be meant to depict Lal Ded, but another female saint (not sure though). Would you still be interested in the image?
@@LetsTalkReligion But there is also a book with that picture on the cover called "The Book of Lalla Ded" by Paul Smith. 🤔 I would still love to have that picture. Which AI tool did you use to upscale it? Do you need a mail-adress or something or can you share it via cloud? Thank you very much! 🙏🤍
Recently, studying the cinics, i have come to the conclusiom that, for ancient greeks, philosophy was indeed a very mistycal endeavor and a lifestyle, not just a rational train of thought.
Loving you channel. I’d love to see some information on the Bwiti of Gabon and the history of their beliefs on mysticism, creation and initiation. Have you explored much on this group?
Great video. I know perennial philosophy has its detractors, but it's obvious to me how widespread certain ideas are. They cross pollinate real easily.
Excellent content! I’d really be grateful to see you produce more content on Parmenides and his poem. Maybe something about how dactylic hexameter works as an incantation that profoundly affects the listener. Also, the academics who dismiss Parmenides proem as merely a poetic ornamentation rather than a genuine account of his katabatic shamanic journey to the underworld need to understand the recent archaeological discoveries in Velia. Archaeologists in Italy have unearthed his healing cave along with his herm statue and inscriptions that reveal absolutely fascinating information about him. He was the founding father of a lineage of healers who practiced incubation. He was an Ouliades and Iatromantis which means seer/prophet healer. There is no doubt whatsoever that Parmenides was a Greek shaman who practiced katabatic journeys as he describes in On Nature. He’s clearly describing the goddess Persephone in the proem which also demarcates the locus of this journey as being the underworld. Thanks for your content!
I am of Greek descent. I went through something very similar to this which I referred to as an initiation without really knowing but I came to refer to as a Spiritual Awakening and Near Death Experience and Dark Night of the Soul. So many different names for the same experience.
I have two questions after watching: -Considering that the existence of Orphism is uncertain, what can we know about the origin of the Orphic Hymns? -Should Platonic discussions of eros be considered the same as or separate from the deity Eros?
Thank you. Your content is resonating with me. I don’t think I saw in your channel a video on the mystical experience in budhisem. The Jhanas. A suggestion❤
Mysticism is universal because experience is universal. Theres many different types of mysticism, but those arent "universal." Hesycasm in the Orthodox church is not the same as some mystical practices that involve the ingestion of powerful psycho-active compounds for pagan rituals.
As far as I am concerned Greek Philosophy is the principle source of Islamic philosophy and mysticism , It was Greek concept of" Sophia " which created "Sufism " , likewise Greek Gnosia was translated in erfan / irfan ( knowledge ), Ishraq is an Islamic version of Plotinus' philosophy .. ..Islamic logic per se is entirely based on Aristotelian logica .
In terms of the intellectual, "philosophical" aspects of Sufism, I agree with you (partly). As for falsafa, that is pretty overtly building parimarily on the greeks, yes.
Can you make a video on the religious reasons behind Cremation in india and partly in china vs burial in abrahamic / western religions vs leaving the dead in a remote place in zoroastrianism
Have been presenting insights from a Classicist perspective into this topic on UA-cam for nearly 3 years and barely scraped 4000 subs. Where is everybody?
I would like to see a deep dive from someone on the time period right before nycean council. You had wide amounts of temples to auset/isis and it appears most knew of the mystery rights of Dionysus. It feels like an interesting time to be a practitioner in any of these faiths as the roman rule changed after Constantine.
Throughout our evolution our consciousness has become more dense. It’s rather egotistical of our society as believe the ancients were just like the humans of today’s epoch. We are currently so dense and it’s our job to remember who we once were. Thank you for yet another great video.
Look at the uninitated ,, says socrates in theaetatus I actually wrote a paper on mysticism in socrates and i was so happy thay you have said many of the things i have also said in my paper. Certainly you cannot overlook those mystic references and motifs along side with reason and rationality of course ;) besides, like always, learnt couple of new things as well so, thanks for the video.
This video is truly one of your best. On the issue of the word “mysticism” - would something like “non-dualism” or “non-dual ecstatic experience” be closer to what we mean?
Filip, Ibn Arabi is referred to as Ibn Aflatun - Son of Plato. Not sure where I read it, could be in the Ibn Arabi biographies by Addas, or Hirtenstein, or even Austin's 'Sufis of Andalusia'.
Superb segment. You might consider taking one more effort on this subject. I sense you are struggling a a bit that suggests to me that you have a deeper insight on this topic.
Excellent, but the essence of Ancient Greece is very beginning of the primacy of existence, identity and the proper use of consciousness. Saying that Greece suffered bad epistemology is like saying the American founders did not present the solution to slavery.
at 10:53 I cannot hold the base of an object with this perspective unless I have six fingers. My thumb just will not cooperate no matter how much I try,
Sorry about the video being out of focus for a while midway through!
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No worries about the focus! I was finally able to make out some of the smaller titles on your bookshelf. Made my day. 😊 There is always a silver lining.
It was so full of information, I hadn’t even noticed the blurring.
Great job, as usual, but especially this time, because you broached a most important thread in "connecting the dots." Reason leads directly to mysticism when Reason is indeed followed faithfully. (Irrationalism too often masquerades as rationalism in this world of limitation, which believes that rationalism is to try and reduce limitless and abstract Truth to a limited and finite understanding!) And Parmenides is key to illustrating this connection (between the West and the East), as my book makes clear. Limitation must be recognized as IRRATIONAL (by definition) in order to make room for The Rational in one's mind. And "The Philosopher's Stone" is then found to be the foundation of all truly rational (whole) Thought; The Philosopher's Stone being the simple and yet most profound fact that "GOD" is The Mind that is ALL. There it is. But one has not FOUND the Philosopher's Stone until one has found very good reason to believe that this is true! Experience is required.
If the 12th amam is, as shiet are saying, is sunny! How do them and the rest of different Islam faith explain themselves?
This was a fantastically thorough yet concise overview of a vast subject I've been studying for decades. You brought together many disparate threads elegantly. I had never heard that Plutarch quote on the Eleusinian mysteries, so thanks for including that. Thanks as always Filip!
Well it makes me especially happy to hear that from you, Dan! Thank you so much!
@@LetsTalkReligion It brings me so much joy to see this particular community of creators in the philisophy, esotericism, occultism, mysticism and religion genre thrive and interact with one another. Growing up in my teens when UA-cam was created I didn't have the luxery of what you few wonderful folk have woven together with academic yet open minded approaches but instead was autofed biased religious propaganda, biased atheist propaganda, insane conspiracy theories and people who in retrospect had severe mental illnessness bringing in others into their delusions (both spreading delusions and imbedding further those of the creator in themselves).
Even later in my life when I joined the OTO I thought the information I was getting was going to be more accurate but it turns out Crowley didn't really know much about the Eleusinian Mysteries or Gnosticism but put both as main themes to his philosophy. I'm glad I left the OTO and have begun walking my own path... a path in which you folk have played a key part. I came close to closing the door on anything but personsl direct mystical experiences and studying non-wooey science like physics and chemistry to understand reality and try to find possible explanations for ineffable and implausible experiences I've had on my journey... but the videos created by both of you and Justin and Angela and many others like Seekers of Unity and the rest of the gang refueled my love for history and philosophy, symbolism and the study of how others (not just my own direct experiences) understand reality and consciousness, divinity and the nature of the individual.
Thank you. May your lives be full of love, light, insight, revelation and excitement :)
Edit: note I still love science and view it as my primary "religion" not in the scientism sense but in the sense that to me by definition if one were to take all experimentally sound science known in the past, present and yet to be future you end up describing the workings and nature of Divinity itself. All i meant was I nearly stopped studying and appreciating correlating my mystical experiences with my love of science when I let go of dogmatic Thelema
This guy makes good videos
@@LetsTalkReligion @LetsTalkReligion It brings me so much joy to see this particular community of creators in the philisophy, esotericism, occultism, mysticism and religion genre thrive and interact with one another. Growing up in my teens when UA-cam was created I didn't have the luxery of what you few wonderful folk have woven together with academic yet open minded approaches but instead was autofed biased religious propaganda, biased atheist propaganda, insane conspiracy theories and people who in retrospect had severe mental illnessness bringing in others into their delusions (both spreading delusions and imbedding further those of the creator in themselves).
Even later in my life when I joined the OTO I thought the information I was getting was going to be more accurate but it turns out Crowley didn't really know much about the Eleusinian Mysteries or Gnosticism but put both as main themes to his philosophy. I'm glad I left the OTO and have begun walking my own path... a path in which you folk have played a key part. I came close to closing the door on anything but personsl direct mystical experiences and studying non-wooey science like physics and chemistry to understand reality and try to find possible explanations for ineffable and implausible experiences I've had on my journey... but the videos created by both of you and Justin and Angela and many others like Seekers rereading what I wrote I realized it may sound like you all turned me against science when the opposite is true! I still love science and view it as my primary "religion" not in the scientism sense but in the sense that to me by definition if one were to take all experimentally sound science known in the past, present and yet to be future you end up describing the workings and nature of Divinity itself. All i meant was I nearly stopped studying and appreciating correlating my mystical experiences with my love of science when I let go of dogmatic Thelema and left the OTO
I appreciate you both so much ❤
This deep dive into the mystical and philosophical aspects of ancient Greece challenges the commonly held perception of this era as solely the cradle of rationalism and logic. It's intriguing to see how deeply intertwined mysticism, altered states of consciousness, and religious practices were with the philosophical inquiries of figures like Plato, Parmenides, and Socrates. The exploration of mystery cults, the Eleusinian Mysteries, and the Bacchic rituals, alongside the philosophical mysticism evident in Plato's dialogues, underscores a complex culture where the quest for knowledge encompassed both the rational and the transcendental. It's a reminder that our ancestors recognized multiple pathways to understanding reality, valuing both the intellect and experiences beyond the ordinary. This video serves as a compelling invitation to reconsider our historical narratives and acknowledge the rich panorama of human thought and spiritual exploration in ancient Greece. Thank you for shedding light on this often overlooked aspect of ancient Greek culture and inviting us to broaden our understanding of their legacy.
Thank you for making this video. These ideas, the role of mysticism in ancient Greek philosophy, this is how my professor Tom Trelogan introduced his students to ancient philosophy, and it kindled my love for the search and study of wisdom/truth.
The immense influence of such eastern Mediterranean mystery cults on the early development of Christianity is an underrated notion as well.
Yeah, I agree. Notice how the initiation rituals in the mystery cults involve a symbolic death and rebirth by reenacting the experience of a deity who either dies and resurrects (Dionysus, Osiris, the sun god in the Isis mysteries) or goes down into the underworld and rises out of it (Persephone/Kore, the sun in the Isis mysteries). Now read Paul's interpretation of baptism where he describes it as a ritual death and resurrection/rebirth that emulates the death and resurrection of Jesus. All of these cults and Christianity offer salvation from death or a happy afterlife. A lot of these rituals are found in the ancient Egyptian mortuary cult which revolved around the deaths and resurrections of Osiris and the sun god.
Diodorus Siculus in his Library of Histories 1.96.4-6 writes:
"Orpheus, for instance, brought from Egypt most of his mystic ceremonies, the orgiastic rites that accompanied his wanderings, and his fabulous account of his experiences in Hades. For the rite of Osiris is the same as that of Dionysus and that of Isis very similar to that of Demeter, the names alone having been interchanged; and the punishments in Hades of the unrighteous, the Fields of the Righteous, and the fantastic conceptions, current among the many, which are figments of the imagination - *all these were introduced by Orpheus in imitation of the Egyptian funeral customs."*
Absolutely delightful work. A rich goldmine of clarity and rigor. Thank you Filip.
this is such a timely video for me, i am working on a long piece about lot's wife as a prototypical mystic, that a turn back toward the divine (even in horror, as your video mentions) leaves one totally changed. thank you for another great video
I really enjoyed learning from this as I am currently reading "Philosophy as a Rite of Rebirth" by Algis Uždavinys.
I have that book I need to read it😅
I had similar experiences. I do not know, what I should write here - maybe... okey: there was some event, where I got in fear of dying, and suddenly it switched over to some kind of bliss. Or maybe it was real bliss. I do not know. First I was kind of fighting death for a while, but then I thought: let it happen, let it happen... And then it switched over. It was a real and full release and also a full surrender to it. I got calm and blissful, my spine grew warm, very pleasantly warm. My breath was calm, free, and healthy. It was an unbelievable experience. It lasted for about 3 hours or so - this very strong experience. I totally lost fear and got somehow free. (Maybe this was something which is called here in this video "initiation"? I don't know.) Then I had reflections on many things. I also thought - in the face of death - what should I do with my life, with my remaining lifetime? Living the positive only, that was my decision. Living what is the good thing, the right thing, the positive thing - what I consider positive. Being it. Doing it. I made this decision just for me and myself in this process - I mean it was a totally individual decision -, and I stayed with it since then. Later, when this kind of strong experience was over I remained in a thinking process for quite a while, right after this very intensive experience and also for a month or so at least. Again and again I had to think about it, about many issues. It was not a strong and strict way of thinking, more a soft and revealing way. Again and again I got new and smart thoughts, I saw connections, and many things became very obvious to me. It was one of the strongest experiences of my life, maybe the strongest.
To some other points of the video: "Yes", it is all about the soul, I fully understand what is said about the Greek philosophers and their statements. I completely agree.
And this issue of life after death: maybe what I experienced was already something like that? It was overcoming death.
I think this is my favorite episode I've watched so far. Kudos from someone who has had mystic experiences and has been seeking meaning from, and exploring them for many years. Thank you. 🙏🏼💜✨
Could you potentially share a few? I have been plagued by terrible nightmares of what I believe to be the afterlife, one nightmare, I rode into a town called “Lou”. I was on a very tired and ragged looking ass or mule. I dismount outside of a building simply marked “HOTEL” in big letters, and go in to get a room. I do not remember seeing someone behind the counter, and I should mention, I felt every sensation as if it was something I was doing in real life. I go to the room and lay down, instantly falling asleep. When I awake, the room is dark, and the window is broken with boards covering it. It’s also very dirty, not like someone trashed it, but like it had been abandoned for decades, maybe even over a century. I walk out of the room and go outside, the lobby is also in a state of decay. There are voices whispering all around me, kind of like they were gossiping about me, despite the empty streets. I cannot decipher what they said, it sounded inhuman though. My mule/ass is dead and rotting, the smell was sickening but there were no flies. I stood and stared for a minute before feeling dread, and turning around. And there I saw it. A jet black panther, or maybe lioness? I looked into its eyes, which were blood red instead of green like a normal cat’s eyes, and I felt, I don’t know, the feeling I felt is impossible to describe. In its eyes I saw evil, I saw suffering, everything horrible in this world and I saw many images of human cruelty that seemed to flash before my eyes. I began to weep, and the dread was replaced by a fear I wish to never experience again. It began to move, which made me sprint at full speed away. I ran for what felt like an hour, and when I began, the voices went from whispering words I couldn’t understand, to screams of terror and pain, very guttural, horrifying screams. I looked back, the panther was chasing me now. Eventually, after a while, just as the panther is gaining on me I see a white elephant covered in beautiful Mandela patterns that were gold and silver and color. The feeling I felt when I saw it was hope, overwhelming hope. I got closer to her, and just as the panther was pouncing, I jumped out and grabbed ahold of the elephant’s trunk, tightly hugging it. A great comforting warmth washed over me, it felt like love, and joy, and all the positive feelings you could imagine. When I woke up in real life, immediately after grabbing the elephant’s trunk, I was sweaty and my hands were clasped together over my chest, which I normally wouldn’t even put a second thought to but after that dream it didn’t feel like a coincidence.
Man, every time I was about to ask a question, you answered it, particularly with regards to Plato's Esoteric teachings that he kept private to his closest pupils and confidantes. It leads me to believe he kept a somewhat gnostic view that direct experience is the only way to reveal truth and some things cannot be related through mere explanation or definition bound by the limitations of language.
More please! Love Pre-Socratic nostalgia.
Mysticism in ancient Greece was very good. Nero requested initiation into the Eleusinian mysteries, and they refused. Now you'd expect them all to be executed, right? But they weren't. That's how highly-respected the Eleusinian initiates were.
Thank you so much Filip for yet another insightful, thought provoking video on a fascinating topic. It seems like there are many commonalities between these mystery cults and what we collectively call Tantra or Tantric practices in the Hindu-Buddhist tradition. Perhaps there existed an earlier, common origin? is there any indication of there being a mystical tradition in ancent Egypt, ancient mesopotamia or deep within proto-indo European sprititual beliefs? Would love to learn more!
On that note, I'd love more videos on Buddhism, Vajrayana, and especially on the Greco-Buddhism of Bactria and beyond
Very impressive. You have an ability to distill a lot of information and present it with clarity. Thanks for posting this.
Wound also love to learn more about the influence of Greek mysticism on the formation of early Christian thought and theology.
Honestly, I'd like you to do videos: 1) The maniots who practiced Greek paganism up until the 9th century, as they've pretty interesting as an ethnic subgroup of Greeks.
2) Modern-day Neopaganism in Greece as well, as it'd be cool to see how they compare to their ancient ancestors.
*videos on:
That's ultra based, I'm Greek and thats the energy you love to see in the ancient world. Never heard of it now I have a new rabbit hole to go down.
I would, in fact, also be very interested in seeing how acutely he can try to identify and coalesce modern locations of divine attributes and “gods” in our seemingly secular globalized society
@@donaldmcdonald3434 ✊🏼🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷
Yes please
Great video! Would love to see some content on mystery schools, such as the Rosicrucian order, The Golden Dawn, Freemasonry, pretty much western esotericism
46 minutes of excellence coming up. Love this channel.
despite this being a topic that I felt like I had nearly exhausted, you have once again brought it back in an engaging, fresh, and interesting video. thank you so much, Filip!
Excellent, what it caught my attention is something that I've been thinking about for the last four years, and that is Poetry as a tool in mysticism. Once you start to see religions as an anthropological or social phenomenon, you can easily get the whole picture.
For this Aristotelian, the Baccic frenzy of philosophy was such an intense love for ideas that sleep was banished, replaced by the desire to know and the total awe of my own self’s capacity to know.
I am so glad this is a successful channel.
That was fantastic. Incredibly clear and insightful. Loved it.
Thank you so much for this series. I am doing a part time PhD on mysticism which had its origins in an interest in the similarities between ancient Greek and Indian thought. The resistance of scholars even now to the idea that philosophy was anything other than rational argumentation is striking though it is gradually beginning to change.
This is an insanely interesting topic!! As a Greek who has started noticing similarities between Ancient Greek and Indian language and spirituality, I would very much like to read parts of your thesis (if possible), or relevant material.
Interesting video on ancient Greek society, especially explaining an aspect we may not typically consider
Thanks
This subject is soo cool!!!! I love it!!!!❤
Listening again, Filip. Thank you!!!
Dionysius, The Elder, an ancient ruler of Syracuse in Sicily, about 430 B. C. When Siclily was invaded by the Carthaninians, he became a general in the service of Syaracuse, which then was a republic. In that year 406 he made himself a "tyrant" or ruler of Syracuse. He later continued the war agaist the Carthaninians, and was at first defeated, but afterwards gained a complete victory. He also engaged in many other military expeditions , and was one of the most important rulers of his time. Not content with his military reknown, he wrote poems and tragedies and at one time gained a prize at Athens for tragic poetry. He died in 367 b.c.
Diogenes, the famous Greek philosopher from about 412 to 323 b.c.
I could on and on but i will just listen to you, I cannot write fast enough on these technological cellphones.
The lens of visionaries.
Who tudors who?
If only Socrates had a daughter, women are not second hand citizens, but where they in all of philosophy?
You are a genius, Filip, and may I add I have learned many things from your videos and I thank you. By the way, your music is sublime.
🙏❤️🌎🌿🕊🎶🎵🎶
I'm definitely not a genius, but I'm glad you like my music! 😊
There were Ancient Greek women who taught philosophy and we do have the teaching of some of them. That being said, the records we have tend to be later than Plato et cetera.
Such an eye-opening and interesting video. Thank you for the great work you put together, Filip!
Fascinated. Thank you for exploring this topic that seems to underpin so much of the wisdom teachings. Wonderful graphics and vids.
Love this episode. Fantastic content as always. Thank you
I really enjoyed this video. It's practically a short summary for my college course my professor made. However, he titled it "Greek Religion". We did get to learn why the word choice of religion was poor and other substitutes, like "mysticism" and "ritualistic activities". Very nice to be able to have all of this material put together to help me comprehend his studies. Thank you!
I love all your videos but this is the one I've been waiting for... Excellent job!
A most beautiful presentation - the music is gorgeous.💐
What a amazing work. Thanks for all your effort.
GREAT video, Filip! Heck - you just barely skimmed the surface of an incredibly vast and oceanic subject. And this video was very much needed, as too many people nowadays think of classical Greek philosophy merely as a dry, academic rationalism, and nothing more. Subsequent videos could go more into depth on each of these philosophers and mystery religions: Dionysus / Bacchus, Orpheus and the Orphics, the Eleusinian Mysteries, Plato, Plotinus, Pythagoras and much, much more! Being so far removed historically from the mystical or mystery aspects of ancient Greek religion and philosophy, it seems like we have lost many of the details, and must speculate or extrapolate in places. But as fearless seekers after truth, we must persist in this quest for divine knowledge. And the influence of classical Greek philosophy and the mystery religions on Christianity should not be overlooked either - that is an incredibly important subject, but sadly, too little known or appreciated.
Thank you for making this.
Thank you for this wonderful overview. It inspired a few further researches here. One more association came up, that would need further research: Going into a cave, drinking something, coming out as real initiate and having "overcome death" is ancient and all over the world to be found. Not an academic research but still well done and inspiring is that of Freddy Silva.
Very vital part that was missed is Diotima's speech through socrates, in Symposium. Where textbook mystical terminology is utilised to express the different states of Eros. Also the Mysteries of Samothrace Kaveiria, and the Cretan mysteries in the cave "Zeus grew up" that are considered to be the highest initiation in the divine.
Excellent job covering a complex topic. Since you asked what we're interested in, I'm interested in learning more about the history and evolution of Hermeticism from ancient times to the modern day - e.g. how much are modern quasi-Hermetic movements such as the Golden Dawn, Thelema, or the ONA directly influenced by ancient Hermeticism and how much are they modern reinterpretations? Also, I'm interested in Minoan religion, as the Ancient Greece Revisited channel has made some videos indicating a dichotomy between the matriarchal religion of the Minoans and the patriarchal religion(s) of later Greeks.
I'm still in 4:30 but I must note that I find a parallel between the muses that inspire poetry and Shayateen Al Shir (Demons/Spirits of Poetry) which were also believed to inspire the poet, according to the ancient Arabs! (I'm going to use my replies as personal notes)
The part about Baccheia reminded me of what later became known as Female Hysteria, medically (unfortunately) but more than that the ritual of Zaar in Sudan and Egypt, still going on today, which strictly involves women.
The Elusinian cult and simulating death, as release and transformation is the same idea in the Death tarot card. Death is synonymous with transformation in tarot. It is also seen as new beginnings. The involvement of music reminds me of Sufi rituals which also resulted in attaining a higher state of consciousness.
Yes finally somebody that speaks about greek mysticism, i would add, those that we call philosophers, some of them, most of them, were mystics. Like pitagora, socrate, platone, dionige, seneca, empedocle, eraclito, parmenide, and many others where all wise mystics, mostly belinging to the "jnana yoga" shool.
How do you define a mystic?
@@LetsTalkReligion Hi! I define Mysticism as "everything that has to do with experience of the Divine", here the Key words are two "experience" and "Divine", experience because Mystics do not speak about God, do not belive about God, they have experiences, that are emprical to them. Divine and not God because usually God gives an idea of a Person, there Is also the "Person" but that Is not the deepest nature of "God", so the Divine Is more generale and more in tune with mysticism, the Divine Is that wich It the Self of all, the Absolute Reality. So i define Mystics in different levels, starting from where the experience of the Devine begins. Here with the Divine i mean where That "more" reality begins to enter in the mystic's life, in different forms. As soon as One begins to have experiences of the Divine, that i put It among Mystics. Even thou usually every time i use the word i specify in wich level i consider that to be. The highest level Is "Jana" (in hindu terminology), where one loses any sense of duality and separation and there Is only the Self that experience Himself as Absolute Bliss-Counscisness-Being, permanently, and this Is the difference,, so most of those that we call Saints or Mystics where not in this Higher state, but where in lower good state, like Bakhtas or Devotes ecc. In Christian Mysticism almos no mystic has riched this very advanced "state", (i put state in " " because It Is not a state, It Is our Natural "state"! It Is our Self, that Is way Is called Sahaja Samadhi), i don't Say this do discharge christian Mystics that i love a lot, but It Is a fact, One in Christian Mysticism Who went close to Jnana Is meister eckhart, but the Highest form of Realization we find them in India and in some areas with Buddhism.
So surely Socrate, Platone, ecc were not the highest form of Mystics but surely they had deep develoment and advanced state of mind, their knowledge has strong mystical tendencies and can only be direct because there was not all the modern new age in wich Is very common to speak with no experience, and no reserch on NDEs or Reincarnation, so Who they got all those knowledge by themselves and all that wisdom about desires, peace, detachment, Reincarnation ecc, they had deep spiritual exiriences. That Is way i said them to be Mystics, some more some less. Even thous there was not religion as we mean It there at those times, they reached the same good levels of Mystic experience Just by philosofy and correct use of intelligence, they understood that desideres and pleasur of the senses brings the mind down to confusion and then applying the methods of wise detached egoless living they reached Deep state of peace , and this Is already Mysticism because Peace Is the Self or God. Union with God Is Just the dissolution of the restless Thoughts that make you belive you are separate from the Self, but in reality you are already the Self! So even withouth religions, visions, ecc, Just with intelligence and wisdom they did reach Deep myistical realizations, as every man can do Just by Understanding He Is Him self eternal peace.
Thank you , have a good day🙏
This was such a great video and very refreshing look at Greek philosophy! I highly recommend that you check out the work of Pierre Grimes since I think he does a fantastic job making mystical connections with Platonic philosophy. He goes into how we translate Plato as well, and how much of what academics say today regarding his philosophy is often misconstrued and disregards anything that could be seen as mysticism.
It would help to have some kind of timeline threading through the story, because what I've discerned in the progress of the Grecian myths, through the passage of time, is they seem to be connected to real events. Some of our oldest anecdotal information about the very distant past comes to us from Greek myths: Prometheus, and the attainment of "fire" (or, more accurately, the control of fire), the arrival of Zeus (Jupiter), and later, Athena, and the disposition of the Titans, something that bespeaks of forces we can only guess at, but fear to understand. I think, what we term "mysticism" was more a function of the ancients trying to decipher a world gone mad, for nearly two millennia, than any impetus to "decode" the mysteries of life.
The quote from Plutarch exemplifies what I mean, "...wandering, and wearisome roaming ...fearful journeys ... endless darkness ... every sort of terror, shuddering and trembling and sweat and amazement ..." speaks to the catastrophes, cataclysms, and deadly dangers at every turn, also described in other myths, legends, and Bible stories from the same general time. Something very bad happened (long before Plutarch lived, as evidenced by the closing sentences), not once, not twice, but again, and again, and again, ultimately bringing about the Fall of Empires, including the Mycenae, in the 12th Century, when Jews, and Zoroaster, and very probably, Akhenaten, too, became monotheistic.
If I am correct about this (and two of three are verified), titanic events eclipsed the sovereignty of Man, wham, bam, thank you ma'am, three times in a row, circa 1206BC, 1154BC, and 1102BC, as dramatically, and profoundly, as Joshua, Exodus, the Tower of Babel incident, and Noah, had, before them. These events changed the world from its former appearance, into something closer to what we know today. Truly, those surviving would have "emerged into the light", leaving behind the crowded crush of survivors struggling to free themselves.
Plutarch lived AFTER Plato, at the beginning of the modern era. Plato would have been almost mythic to him, separated by almost 500 years (think of Henry VII, father of the famous Henry). His ideas about the past of nearly two millennia before would have been as removed as our own, if by a few less degrees. Plato was already removed from the events of the Fall of Empires by nearly a millennium, achieving maturity about 400BC, almost 800 years after the Fall of Empires. He repeated, and recorded, in some instances, what he had learned from earlier anecdotal sources, weaving them into his philosophy, in much the way Plutarch weaves the elements into his description. Using known values to describe unknown situations and conditions, then offering an opinion on how such changes for the better would be perceived.
The Eleusinian Mysteries are probably trace remnants of the arrival of Zeus, who disposed the Titans, banishing the gas giants to the outer reaches of the Solar System. Zeus, or Jupiter as we know him, was probably a proto-star that didn't ignite, dragging a lot of debris from supernovas along with him, including what would become Athena, a planetary body too large to survive in thrall to the planet. The vastness of space crossed by the gas giant would have kept the smaller body in line, but once it took its place in the Solar System, Sol's more powerful affects would have quickly changed that. We are told Athena was "born fully formed, already armored" from the forehead of Zeus, her "father". What was far more likely was the cloud cover on the proto-planet was so reflective, it looked like a spotlight emerging in the darkness.
Athena was known to the middle- and late-Minoan civilization, pushing her "arrival" back into the mists of history, at the beginning of the Mycenaean culture, by circa 1800BC. I suspect the story of Athena is almost as old as the story of Prometheus, who "gave fire to humans", only slightly less distant than the arrival of Zeus. Orpheus may be a 12th Century BC figure who lived during the time of the "first" Trojan War (Homer conflated a 12th Century "war" he'd learned songs and poems about from an early age, with the one he participated in, during the late 8th Century BC).
Our story of Eve (never mind Adam) is another memory trace remnant, the only "piece" of some very drastic occurrence still extant, after about 100,000, to 200,000, years. Something cut us off from 95-98% of our very ancient past, leaving us with faint traces, implausible-unless-true suggestions, frightening possibilities, and long-dead campfires. Whatever happened to our ancestors before the Scythians, before the Chaldean Sumerians, before the Egyptians, is a true mystery, so completely lost to us, we can only guess at their existence.
This is our past, a confusing snarl of misinformation and misinterpreted events, overlaid with the hubris humans are uniquely capable of bringing to bear, in a miasma of religion, "mythology", and human divinations, most of them incorrect, ill-advised, and/or illogical. There is a narrative that carries through all the window dressing that has been applied over the last 3 millennia and more, but it tells a story denied by those who preen as "experts", or "religious leaders", because it speaks to the violent nature of the Universe we inhabit, and there is nothing scarier, that we've ever encountered!
©BW2024 03/08/2024
anarchitek™
Thanks!
@31:17 I've always wondered how much Miester Eckhart was influenced by Plato.
Not sure he woud have read much Plato (except Timaeus probably), but he was undoubtedly influenced by the Neoplatonists (if indirectly)
0:10 Wrong! I'll always mention mythology. I always found it more memorable than philosophy when it comes to Ancient Greeks :)
So excited to watch! Hope you touch on the Oracles and and how much the Greeks loved their divination! I'm a Thoth reader and Greek so I'm pumped.
as always, SUCH an interesting and well-presented video!
I'm seeing a lot of connections here with the troubadours and the notion of love which seems very platonic in nature, likely through the latin authors and islamic thinkers prior. I'd be interested in seeing a future video on the idea of the plontius union with pyche and that part of the nous left in the upper world, and what connections you can draw to it, focusing on love across traditions as you know it. Seems like alchemy is there too.
As usual expertly done. Your discourse of Greek mysticism makes it abundantly clear of the commonality of many ancient so called mystical practices. In these degenerative times we live in now, Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism practices make it possible for one to reach enlightenment in one lifetime minus the Gods influence, who are also trapped in the Samaric realms, as they were back then. American Gods series written by British author Neil Gaiman now on Starz, is very insightful and entertaining how the Gods life cycle plays out in the human realm.
In college during the early 1980s, I always read Plato through a mystical lens. It got me into a lot of trouble with the professors and, ultimately, with the college administration.
It was the early 1980s, so we all had Hamilton and Cairns “Plato’s Collected Dialogues.” I also studied some ancient Greek…so played around on that level.
But, yes, I’m sure there are better translations out there now. Hackett?
For mystical initiations and teachings, I went to Tibetan Buddhism (Vajrayana Dzogchen). A backround in Western Philosophy helped me to cut to the chase.
That sounds pretty bad ass :)
Its great.. wonderful... opening and plugging a hole in rationalist interpretation. Im so glad you didnt allow the screamimg academic in you to put out the kindling embers of YOUR soul Filip. The Living Flame of Love needs these torches. Go for it.
And the idea that beauty and love, wherever we find it in the everyday even... are the kindling potential we all need...to propel us into our soul nature....and to a stable source of refuge in these troubled crisis ridden times. This teaching is a must. Thank you.
A wonderful video as always. I’m actually in the middle of reading Peter Kingsley’s Ancient Philosophy, Mystery, and Magic which also covers Pythagoreanism, Orpheus and Plato, so this is a nice bit of synchronicity for me. I would encourage you to read Bruce Lincoln’s Waters of Memory, Waters of Forgetfulness, and Erick Dodge’s Orpheus, Odin, and the Indo-European Underworld, both of which talk about the connections between Orphic and other Indo-European traditions. Also, may be a good subject for a video too? Thanks again.
Kingsley's book is great!
same here
Nice, I'm really looking forward for thisone! 🤩
Thanks for the profound insights you share! Your content has not only broadened my understanding of various religions and cultures but also gave me a deeper insight into myself. 🌞🌺
One video that particularly resonated with me was your exploration of Lal Ded. It left me so inspired that I've decided to delve into the subject further on my own. Now I'm writing a paper an preparing a talk about her. However, I'm facing difficulty finding a high-res version of the cover image you used in your video about Lal Ded. I only find low-res versions. Could you kindly guide me to the source of the high-quality image ore share it with me?
🙏💓
I wish you continued success in your efforts to build bridges between cultures. Your work is truly making a positive impact and I look forward to more enlightening content from your channel!
What a coincidence 😆 In fact, I was also desperately looking for a high-resolution image of the oil painting Filip used in the cover picture of the Video about Lalleshwari. I wanted to frame and hang it in my ashram room, but I can only find it in poor quality.
I think the one I used was an AI-resolution-enhanced version of the lower res image.
Also, I have been told afterwards that the image might not originally be meant to depict Lal Ded, but another female saint (not sure though). Would you still be interested in the image?
@@LetsTalkReligion Yes, I would like the painting too, even if it's AI-optimized. Thank you! 😇🍀
@@LetsTalkReligion But there is also a book with that picture on the cover called "The Book of Lalla Ded" by Paul Smith. 🤔 I would still love to have that picture. Which AI tool did you use to upscale it? Do you need a mail-adress or something or can you share it via cloud? Thank you very much! 🙏🤍
Another great video! Would love to see you cover pre-columbian American religion at some point. Keep up the great work!
Yes, I've been meaning to cover that for a while!
Recently, studying the cinics, i have come to the conclusiom that, for ancient greeks, philosophy was indeed a very mistycal endeavor and a lifestyle, not just a rational train of thought.
Magisterial, as always. Thanks for all your work.
Loving you channel. I’d love to see some information on the Bwiti of Gabon and the history of their beliefs on mysticism, creation and initiation. Have you explored much on this group?
20:50 Caves? As in Plato’s cave analogy? Makes sense from the greatest of the formal mystics- the enemies of reason.
Petition for a video about Maximus the Confessor !
Great video. I know perennial philosophy has its detractors, but it's obvious to me how widespread certain ideas are. They cross pollinate real easily.
Excellent content!
I’d really be grateful to see you produce more content on Parmenides and his poem. Maybe something about how dactylic hexameter works as an incantation that profoundly affects the listener.
Also, the academics who dismiss Parmenides proem as merely a poetic ornamentation rather than a genuine account of his katabatic shamanic journey to the underworld need to understand the recent archaeological discoveries in Velia.
Archaeologists in Italy have unearthed his healing cave along with his herm statue and inscriptions that reveal absolutely fascinating information about him. He was the founding father of a lineage of healers who practiced incubation. He was an Ouliades and Iatromantis which means seer/prophet healer. There is no doubt whatsoever that Parmenides was a Greek shaman who practiced katabatic journeys as he describes in On Nature.
He’s clearly describing the goddess Persephone in the proem which also demarcates the locus of this journey as being the underworld.
Thanks for your content!
This is just incredible! Just wonderful
Thank you for making a video specifically tailored to my interests.
I am of Greek descent. I went through something very similar to this which I referred to as an initiation without really knowing but I came to refer to as a Spiritual Awakening and Near Death Experience and Dark Night of the Soul. So many different names for the same experience.
Thank you, very interesting.
I have two questions after watching:
-Considering that the existence of Orphism is uncertain, what can we know about the origin of the Orphic Hymns?
-Should Platonic discussions of eros be considered the same as or separate from the deity Eros?
Thank you. Your content is resonating with me. I don’t think I saw in your channel a video on the mystical experience in budhisem. The Jhanas. A suggestion❤
So Mysticism is universal, got it.
E. By 'universal', I meant 'present in almost all cultures'. Also, this comment was posted before the premiere.
Why is this so funny to me 😂🙈
I dont know. Why is it so funny to you?@@JorgeHernandez-nw8ry
Exactly. Mysticism is Universal.
Mysticism is universal because experience is universal. Theres many different types of mysticism, but those arent "universal." Hesycasm in the Orthodox church is not the same as some mystical practices that involve the ingestion of powerful psycho-active compounds for pagan rituals.
Mechanical Pencil
Thank your for the spoilier alert and a story that is thouasnds of years old. My history teacher used to spoil everything
As far as I am concerned Greek Philosophy is the principle source of Islamic philosophy and mysticism , It was Greek concept of" Sophia " which created "Sufism " , likewise Greek Gnosia was translated in erfan / irfan ( knowledge ), Ishraq is an Islamic version of Plotinus' philosophy .. ..Islamic logic per se is entirely based on Aristotelian logica .
In terms of the intellectual, "philosophical" aspects of Sufism, I agree with you (partly).
As for falsafa, that is pretty overtly building parimarily on the greeks, yes.
If you read republic or some Platos dialogs, and if you have read sufism (particular of sunni one), you will be pretty much at home.
Ah, that makes sense. The only good part of Islam, Sufism, isn't even properly Islamic. Go figure!
Anything on ancient Celtic, Scythian, etc. religion would be cool. Keep it up.
Another great video. I love your music too.
Can you make a video on the religious reasons behind Cremation in india and partly in china vs burial in abrahamic / western religions vs leaving the dead in a remote place in zoroastrianism
I'm not sure if there's an entire long format video in this specific topic but I would also be interested in it.
I absolutely love this topic
As do I!
Have been presenting insights from a Classicist perspective into this topic on UA-cam for nearly 3 years and barely scraped 4000 subs. Where is everybody?
I would like to see a deep dive from someone on the time period right before nycean council. You had wide amounts of temples to auset/isis and it appears most knew of the mystery rights of Dionysus. It feels like an interesting time to be a practitioner in any of these faiths as the roman rule changed after Constantine.
Fascinating!
Thank you for sharing.
Profound and insightful as always
Throughout our evolution our consciousness has become more dense. It’s rather egotistical of our society as believe the ancients were just like the humans of today’s epoch. We are currently so dense and it’s our job to remember who we once were. Thank you for yet another great video.
Great video keep it up you're doing amazing things 😁👍
The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name, by Brian C. Muraresku is another great read on this theme.
Thank you for another great video
Ur appreciated
Look at the uninitated ,, says socrates in theaetatus
I actually wrote a paper on mysticism in socrates and i was so happy thay you have said many of the things i have also said in my paper. Certainly you cannot overlook those mystic references and motifs along side with reason and rationality of course ;) besides, like always, learnt couple of new things as well so, thanks for the video.
Can you give a link to your paper
You’re coming back!
This video is truly one of your best. On the issue of the word “mysticism” - would something like “non-dualism” or “non-dual ecstatic experience” be closer to what we mean?
Great presentation, especially on Parmenides. Have you done a video on the Orphic gold tablets?
Amazing work , Thank you
As a Greek person, I'd be very surprised if there wasn't a hefty amount of mysticism in ancient Greek life.
what is the painting at 3:29?
Filip, Ibn Arabi is referred to as Ibn Aflatun - Son of Plato. Not sure where I read it, could be in the Ibn Arabi biographies by Addas, or Hirtenstein, or even Austin's 'Sufis of Andalusia'.
Superb segment. You might consider taking one more effort on this subject. I sense you are struggling a a bit that suggests to me that you have a deeper insight on this topic.
One of your best videos so far.
Something on the transition from ancient greek-roman religion to christianity in the future perhaps?
Need a mysticism playlist for this channel haha
I hope one day you make a video about Iamblichus and Theurgy.
Excellent, but the essence of Ancient Greece is very beginning of the primacy of existence, identity and the proper use of consciousness. Saying that Greece suffered bad epistemology is like saying the American founders did not present the solution to slavery.
at 10:53 I cannot hold the base of an object with this perspective unless I have six fingers. My thumb just will not cooperate no matter how much I try,
Pythagoras would have noticed the same thing. Where is the thumb?
Glory to virgin Athena! Protector of Athens and Syracusai.
Loved this video!!!!