Oh boy was this one a doozy! It should be obvious to anyone who's familiar with CSM how powerful of rules these guys are bringing along - beyond that though, one of my favorite aspects of this legion is the fact they bring up "lesser" datasheets (& obv. super buff the already good ones, hello Warp Talons..). I'd love to hear *your* guys' thoughts on Red Corsairs though, have you had good results so far or are they overrated? I'd also be curious if I missed any fun combos or the sort so definitely let me know if that's the case!! Edit: Dangit, I should've included it in the video but one tricky move might be to sneak in a Burning Chariot to toss Ignores Cover on your targets. AP5+ Melta's with Ignore Cover = spicy
Battle Tactic is a form of strategem. Some of the others are like Epic Deed etc. Basically their category ANY rule that effects a strategem (so either making them cost more, or making them cost less) can ONLY work on the Battle Tactic ones, so when those are good we get extra happy as Chaos Lords of all stripes can make them free + make it so you can use them twice :) Thats an overriding rule btw so if you look at the Lord abilities it says "any strategem" but that's not true anymore, only Battle Tactics - Hope that helps! Grats on picking up the codex as well
Woot tyvm! Yeah isn't it kinda weird, I thought CSM were popular but I don't see many channels who devote much time to them for whatever reason. They're so fun on multiple levels so... It's strange! Appreciate the sub, hopefully I got some good info coming out for ya going forward too
Felhammer is definitely valid for them but my big concern would be that they're mainly a melee unit, or at least love to tussle in CQB so they wouldn't get to take advantage of the detachment rule as often. Getting access to Adv&charge is a big boon too I'm a dork for Discos if you couldn't tell so I'll probably do a video devoted to them at some point to hammer out once & for all who's best for them :P if only Soulforged worked for them
I think Abbie is really valuable in raiders. My biggest worry with this detachment is if the enemy keeps their valuable units off objectives. Abbie having built in rerolls means you aren't totally dependent on ruinous raid.
Great point on Abaddon & I agree about people trying to play around the objectives. I will say that's a good thing though as if they aren't on the obj that just let's you score but for sure it's not as straightforward as it might seem. They might just leave key units off so you can't use your strats on them etc. I think taking out the transports & the sort would be a good move too But yeah these guys are looking incredibly strong & Abaddon will only help with that
Also good for the potential CP stack, and if Abby slams into an objective with a pack of auto-advanced 6" chosen... that's a 18-24" threat range with a wrecking ball of a unit.
Lol sorry it took so long! This series has been a blast though, I think we only have Pactbound Zealots & Soulforged Warpack (my favorite!). Gotta save the best for last & all that :P
I'm theory crafting a list with 2 vindicators with 3 predators behind. I think this detachment adds heaps of value to vindicators with the assault and they're range being only 24". Just threat saturation with Rhino chassis everywhere and smoke/aoc it's gonna be fun as hell dude. Furthermore it feels kinda bad to shelve the forgefiends but the autocannon predators ×3 going up to possible ap 4 is just mental
I’m a newer player who’s been trying to play RR, and this video has helped a ton! Do you mind if I ask if you have any thoughts about a few different units? - Anything to say about Fabius Bile or Haarken Worldclaimer? - Think a Helbrute could do anything of note (maybe with its aura) since the advancing helps its low mobility? Perhaps shooting along with Predators or maybe even trying to get close and charge with 2 fists+flamers and Tank Shock shenanigans… - Any thoughts about Raptors in this detachment? I was thinking about maybe doing 5x Warp Talons and 5x Raptors or just 10x Raptors to try and save some points since the Talons are so pricy.
Glad you found it helpful!! That's half the point of my channel so it's great to hear that 😎 as for your questions: Fabius is amazingly good / efficient in pretty much any detachment. The 3D attacks, buffing his squad, having an ablative wound with the acolyte, coming back to life etc etc etc for 85pt is some of the best. Haarken I'm not as sold on competitively but for casual he'll do just fine Helbrute is great in detachments with re-rolls or 5+ Crits. Otw giving you maybe an extra ~20% efficiency on 2-3 units yet costs 130pt so it's either a draw or a net negative (imho!). The more you surround him with the better though Raptors are great everywhere. Not for damage but scoring! A lot of GT (& my own lists) bring a few MSU squads to help do actions & whatnot. I'd def look into them
@@fatarchon Thank you so much!! I really appreciate resources like this that break down the basics and present lots of options for how to expand off of them. I’ve definitely been blown away by all the help experienced players have offered and “new player questions” they’ve put up with! I had a ton of fun playing my first game with RR (against Grey Knights), but let’s just say it was a bit of a…”learning experience,” haha. Helbrute buffs were useful, but considering I could get another Destructor for only 10pts more if I wanted stronger shooting or a Warpsmith for 60pts less if I wanted something to buff, I think I’ll consider something else… I’m definitely going to try out some Raptors and see if I like them better than Bikers as good scoring units - my Bikers rolled poorly and didn’t perform well, but to be fair, I expect that’s much more a consequence of user error than fault of the unit itself! And then just one like thing… Do you think Warp Talons are still worth it here now that they had their ability changed and cost a premium? Im kind of considering taking a Winged Daemon Prince (with Dread Reaver) to use in a similar role for 90-75pts cheaper.
@trevormacdonald9161 Glad to help man! I love talking CSM so hell I should almost thank you for reaching out lol As for Warp Talons, I think they're still usable but 135pt is just a bit too much in the end (when combined with the nerfed rules at least). Bricks would probably be the way to go so you can help ensure they still go into reserves but otw I'd be looking at different options first. They aren't bad at all just overpriced though so you can still make them work imho!
I personally want to try 10 terminators led by a sorcerer in terminator armor. With the scout enhancement, that means those bastards have scout, reroll advance, reroll charge, and advance and charge. I feel like this could be a quick and tanky threat. I have still have to test it tho.
I was thinking of putting 5 terminators and a sorcerer in a land raider. Scout 6", move 10", disembark 3". That's 19" of movement for 6 terminators with a re-rollable charge on top
Awesome video man! Im ao exited to play my first game of the new codex this week with this detachment. Im going legionnaire heavy with five x5man units. X3 cultists to block out the DZ and then transports and warp talons, with a DP qith wings for extra fun
I'm going to be trying this out tomorrow with my Emperor's Children, Lucius with a 10 Man Squad with Chain Swords, advance, shoot a little, then use the chare strat, and even if you don't kill then you will fight first next tun and should. Should be fu
Yes I think EC are going to be very very strong with that Fight First A fun combo to consider if you even swap legions is VotLW, that'd give you TWO units with Fight First. Defiler meshes well as he has a free Counter Attack too (in any legion!)
Ohh, that's actually a great call! Yeah I think EC are sneaky good, the fact you can mix Fight First / efficient troops into any legion is pretty stronk
Cultists w Apostle will punch up incredibly hard. With a full squad that wounds terminators on a 4+ and a 3+ save, can do more damage than most expect. And the Apostle has LD 5+ for dark pacts.
Damn that's a really clever combo actually, I like it! I'd wonder if the Dark Commune might be a better option though? Get the Adv/Charge & +1H/W but only once per game I do like Apostle though, a lot of people pass him over but he very much has good value esp. for units like the Cultists because he brings actual damage output of his own!
@@fatarchon I prefer the Apostle always being on. It is less threatening to most players minds. And people seem to forget how swingy his suicide bombers are.
If you go for a blob of infantry for tons of attacks at +1 to wound, I think Legionaries are better. Sure they cost more, but they are more durable, have better weapons, and in-built wound re-rolls that combos very nicely with +1 to wound.
@@antongrigoryev6381 That kinda defeats the purpose of a throwaway moveblock unit. I want the 23 model unit to Leroy Jenkins ASAP. It's big enough to block an entire flank from Orks and WE
@@paulshaw3907 So what's the purpose of that unit? If it's a throwaway moveblock unit, then DA is too much investment, you can get 10 more cultists instead and have points left.
Yeah man I'm really happy with Renegade Raiders & the CSM codex as a whole. I'm a huge Drukhari fan too tho (did the name give it away? Lol) - the Skyplinter detachment is pretty damn good & mostly holding us over for now but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the codex brings some strong af surprises. Hoping we get some new kits too, even just a new character would be awesome! I'm big on Kabals though (the shooty Dark Eldar) & sadly GW gives everything to the other cults mostly these days :(
@@fatarchonDrukhari are my first love … I mean army … and what drew me to your channel in the first place. Skysplinter is definitely holding its own pre-codex, but as you say, I hope the codex adds some flexibility with regard to competitive detachment choices rather than realistically just one choice
Oh dang were you one of the OGs? I went back & watched some of those old videos again just the other night & oof - I talked so slow & was at the peak of my alcoholic phase 😜 Still had great advice though lmao I'd kill to go back to 8e Drukhari, aw those were the best of times.. I remember getting into them in 7th because I thought they sucked (... Which they kinda did) then 8th came along & I had an opponent accuse me of being a meta chaser hah. I loved the style tho & with them being so unpopular there wasn't much to go off of so we all got to like, discover out own builds But I digress, yeah Dark Eldar are awesome. Very much agree with your sentiment that they're stuck with only a few viable builds tho. Court of the Archon spam, which will probably get Legend'd :(
Brother I watched all your 8e videos multiple times and took notes haha felt like I had a secret advisor. Would definitely love a couple new models, especially if the court is going legends. Grotesques would be epic 🤌 Keep doing what you’re doing and I’ll keep watching!
I have been waiting for a long time to use the new Iron Warriors detachment. But I'm not gonna lie, the army I built would be *awesome* with this. Back in 2020, the lore I wrote was that my Warsmith treasured the writings of the ancient Terran Warlord, Vulpus Germanicus. I'm set up for the fuckin' Blitzkrieg, that's what I'm trying to say! Thanks for these amazing videos. They're the best CSM tactics on UA-cam.
:) thank you for the kind words, I tell my friends all the time how friendly all of you are so legit it's appreciated. & I know how it goes to have torn feelings on which legion to run. I'm really partial to Soulforged Warpack atm but if I ever played a competitive game it'd be reeeeally hard to choose between them or these guys hah
That just means your warband can be an iron-warriors warband with a taste for blitzkrieg tactics as well as grinding attrition. It even makes sense! Blitzkrieg everything soft, then settle in with fellhammer against strongholds the blitzkrieg couldn't crack. Honestly, this sounds EXACTLY like the perfect use case for the detachment system. Not tying lore to a hard faction and playstyle has it's advantages. It's up to the players to leverage it, and you're in the perfect position to do so.
@@johnj.spurgin7037 I appreciate your input! I love that idea and it's where my sensibilities want to run in 10th edition. I'm glad to hear from somebody who thinks like I do, a hybrid of narrative and tactics. I feel like a lot of people have abandoned the lore side of the game in favor of competitive. But I almost need a lore reason to want to do anything. If it doesn't make sense then it isn't worth doing! I think this channel is building a great community.
@@RSBurgener shame on them for that. Narrative is what makes the game really worth playing! Hell, once I get a hand on enough crusade rules I want to hombrew my own campaigns like pariah nexus.
@@johnj.spurgin7037 agreed. The designers give the armies rules based in the lore. It follows that an army list should be informed by it as well. I would definitely encourage you to do that. While 10th is streamlined for competitive purposes, it actually makes it far easier to homebrew your own rules as well. I think it has an unintended lore benefit. I am currently crafting a homebrew detachment for the Space Marine chapter I created last year. The army is 90% painted, and I just couldn't make them fight the way I envisioned. So I'm doing it myself. I think this hyper-competative, sporty sensibility that the community has has at the moment is a passing fad and it will wane. They'll get bored with the hollow experience of all rules. I think you and I are ahead of the curve and we will see a return to the lore. It will take on a more narrative character in the coming years and the game will return to its roots. I think so anyway!
Thank you brother! Yeah normally the first list or 2 I show is for fluff or fun but then I always try to get something more competitive in there afterwards :)
Hn... have you any opinions on Renegade Raiders buffing Oblits? The advance helps their mobility, but they're still so pricey... Ironically, I think Huron is legit better in Deceptors with redeloying all those Infiltrators, even if he himself can't do so as an epic hero.
You sorta hit the nail on their head with them being too pricey. Add to that they have random # of shots & it really starts to hurt :( Imagine rolling 2 shots on your 170pt squad, oof! That said sometimes you aren't just going for whatever is the most efficient in which case yeah, the [ASSAULT] is super helpful for them as is the AoC strategem to reduce incoming AP, in cover they should be pretty damn resilient so in that sense they would have some play at least! Their profiles will love the additional AP too But yeah, I look at a Vindicator for 5pt more or a Predator for 40pt less &... yeah. Save them for the fluffy lists :P
What do you think about Autocannon Havocs? I love that profile, great at picking up some "mild elites" - 3W 3+ save guys, like Agressors, Eightbound or Possessed, and with extra AP they can actually be good into Termies as well. Also, Land Raiders. What do you think of them in this Detachment? Basically a Rhino, but much tougher and with four lascannons attached. Imo they're fun.
AC Havocs are fine! Basically a mix of both worlds but you don't really lose out on much at all, still have some AP & 3D is great obviously esp with how common 3W models can be Same with Land Raider, might even have extra value because you're in a way getting a 75pt discount by not bringing a Rhino & with the strats we have it's esp strong here
Yeah it's really not hard at all to get on their side of the board (usually, obv depends on the match up!) DP's & Lord Discordants were pracrically made to do that hah Appreciate the comment man :)
Oh dang, if someone from the Realms of Chaos days is praising the new Codex that's a good friggin sign :) I only got into CSM at the start of 8th but I've always thought they had the best lore & style of any army
@@fatarchon I agree they do have the best lore especially the Iron Warriors. My original deamon prince was a converted necron destroyer that I made into a brain in a jar as to me the Iron Warriors would choose tech over "magic".
I haven't had a chance to try them out yet but tbh my gut says none at all. A Predator is only 5pt more & will give you a much better platform.. But then we have the rr hits/wounds strat so it's a tough call but yeah, I'd lean towards none Not sure wtf GW was thinking. 120 was completely fair damnit!!
Which detachment do you think would work the best against orks right now? We have a good number of ork players locally and I'm only now starting to collect CSM.
Hmmm, I'd think Pactbound Zealots. Orks during Waaagh have a 5++ so AP isn't as important, so getting as much output as you can is usually a good call. A brick of Undivided Possessed is one of the premier anti-Ork units in the game imho, just be sure to counter charge & not be the chargee if you can (in which case consider Fight on Death). Even other units though, Vindicators or Forgefiends with their Blast, Venomcrawlers for their cheap 12 shots etc etc
Check my latest TTS tutorial video, should have a link in the description :) Edit: The Red Corsair specific ones were on the Workshop though! If you just search for "red corsair" they should come up
Hello late comment, but is it a good idead to split the havoc's weapons to 2 Lascannon and 2 Reapers then put them each in a rhino with legionaires Idea here is too make use of the rhino's Firing deck 2 to shoot Lascannons or Reapers making the rhino like a pseudo tank which can poop out its guns after dying
So, not if you can help it, generally it's always better to specialize your squads. With Renegade Raiders especially you can use the strategem to rr all hits / wounds after disembarking so you don't really want to keep them loaded yours odds of actually killing your target with x4 of each weapon is muuuch better That said if you have a limited collection then it's totally still workable, it's just not optimal is all. What I like to do is run x2 Havocs squads one with LC & the other with the Chain Cannons. That way I can drop off whoever needs the rr's & keep the other in the Rhino shooting from the firing ports but if you only a single squad atm don't sweat it for now. Still build them that was & when you get a 2nd kit you can make get them both to dedicated squads. Other option is to convert some Legionaries with 40mm bases :)
I think they're great! Noise Marines are some of the best infantry in the game as it is (from a points efficiency pov) & Lucius is a blender in combat I would be torn in how to do their loadout because with Fight First I'd want to go melee with the NMs but they have really good shooting. I'd prooobably do a brick of 10 all melee & then some MSU squads with ranged weapons for shooting But yeah I think they'd work good in this detachment! VotLW is another good choice for them too, you can get *two* units with Fight First with their strat
I don't see any reason why not! Here's from the core rule book but def let me know if I'm mixed up on anything: FLYING If a model can FLY, then when it makes a Normal, Advance or Fall Back move, it can be moved over enemy models as if they were not there, and can be moved within Engagement Range of enemy models when making such a move. Note this also means that MONSTER and VEHICLE models that can FLY can be moved over other MONSTER and VEHICLE models when making such a move. However, models that can FLY cannot end their move on top of any other models or within Engagement Range of any enemy models.
That's a common source of confusion. You can't *improve* your armor by more than 1, nothing about debuffs :) Obviously hits/wounds are different but most people get confused on the stacking AP. If your friends ever don't believe you just Google "wahapedia core rules" then ctrl+f - Wahapedia is a godsend for settling stuff quickly Saving Throw: Roll one D6 and modify by the attack’s AP. - If the result is less than the Save of the model being rolled for, the saving throw is failed and that model suffers damage. - Otherwise, that attack is saved. - An unmodified saving throw of 1 always fails. - A saving throw can never be improved by more than +1. Hope that helps man! Definitely something to take advantage of hah. You could also tell them AP2 weapons wouldn't work if that was the case too I suppose. These days the stuff that can't be modified by so much is specifically called out so it's not a blanket term like back when. Another one that confuses people is leadership. The stat can't be modified worse than 9 but the vast vast majority of debuffs effect the roll not the stat so it's almost a non-issue
@@fatarchon Thanks so much, thats wonderful! Also could you explain how to do daisy chain with embarking/disembarking rhinos? easily one of the best channels for 40k
No problem man! & for the daisy chain its pretty straightforward - basically it's when you disembark a squad from a Rhino (before moving the transport) , then immediately jump a different squad into that same rhino. Doing it that was, the squad that jumped out can move / charge / whatever & then so can the Rhino too. It's mainly to key off Strategems or give the guys who disembark +3" movement etc etc
Sure man, here's a 1k to give you and idea of their playstyle. Chaos Lords + Legos go in the Rhino to trumble up the middle. Cultists sit back & hold your home / screen. Venom's either support the Legos or skirmish the other obj & vindi gives you some AT For 750 you could just drop the Rhino & Vindicator (or similar). Also you might consider Fabius Bile over the Lords in either ver of the list, he's exceptional at smaller pt games & tbh I'd 100% include him if it were me: [b]++ Army Roster (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [995pts] ++[/b] [b]+ Configuration +[/b] [b]Battle Size[/b] [b]Detachment Choice:[/b] Renegade Raiders [b]Show/Hide Options[/b] [b]+ Character +[/b] [b]Chaos Lord [105pts]:[/b] Daemon hammer, Dread Reaver, Plasma pistol, Warlord [b]Chaos Lord [90pts]:[/b] Daemon hammer, Plasma pistol [b]+ Battleline +[/b] [b]Cultist Mob [50pts][/b] . Cultist Champion: Autopistol . 9x Cultist w/ autopistol and brutal assault weapon: 9x Autopistol, 9x Brutal assault weapon [b]Legionaries [90pts]:[/b] Chaos icon . Aspiring Champion: Heavy melee weapon, Plasma pistol . 2x Legionary w/ chainsword: 2x Astartes chainsword, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Close combat weapon . Legionary w/ heavy melee weapon . Legionary w/ other weapon: Lascannon [b]Legionaries [90pts]:[/b] Chaos icon . Aspiring Champion: Heavy melee weapon, Plasma pistol . 2x Legionary w/ chainsword: 2x Astartes chainsword, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Close combat weapon . Legionary w/ heavy melee weapon . Legionary w/ other weapon: Lascannon [b]+ Mounted +[/b] [b]Chaos Bikers [70pts]:[/b] Chaos icon . Biker Champion: Power fist . Biker w/ meltagun: Astartes chainsword . Biker w/ meltagun: Astartes chainsword [b]+ Vehicle +[/b] [b]Chaos Vindicator [185pts]:[/b] Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher [b]Venomcrawler [120pts][/b] [b]Venomcrawler [120pts][/b] [b]+ Dedicated Transport +[/b] [b]Chaos Rhino [75pts]:[/b] Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher [b]++ Total: [995pts] ++[/b]
I don't think it's weeeak but yes 25pt is a pretty penny to spend on 6'. I think it depends on the table, if there's cover you can hide behind then it can be pretty strong (imho!). Basically gain 9" to your infantry if you just disembark T1. Chosen with Adv&charge would love that! But for sure we all have our own playstyles, I get confused by some of the combos other people bring up all the time too hah Appreciate the input man
Oh boy was this one a doozy! It should be obvious to anyone who's familiar with CSM how powerful of rules these guys are bringing along - beyond that though, one of my favorite aspects of this legion is the fact they bring up "lesser" datasheets (& obv. super buff the already good ones, hello Warp Talons..). I'd love to hear *your* guys' thoughts on Red Corsairs though, have you had good results so far or are they overrated? I'd also be curious if I missed any fun combos or the sort so definitely let me know if that's the case!!
Edit: Dangit, I should've included it in the video but one tricky move might be to sneak in a Burning Chariot to toss Ignores Cover on your targets. AP5+ Melta's with Ignore Cover = spicy
Love the content dude ❤
Hi can I please ask what is a battle tactic? I have the csm codex and I'm new to the game just wondering does it mean I can use it twice?
Battle Tactic is a form of strategem. Some of the others are like Epic Deed etc. Basically their category
ANY rule that effects a strategem (so either making them cost more, or making them cost less) can ONLY work on the Battle Tactic ones, so when those are good we get extra happy as Chaos Lords of all stripes can make them free + make it so you can use them twice :) Thats an overriding rule btw so if you look at the Lord abilities it says "any strategem" but that's not true anymore, only Battle Tactics - Hope that helps!
Grats on picking up the codex as well
this man went in and added 3 disco lords to a list. I LOVE IT
Lmao, shoot just wait 'til the Soulforged review mwhaha
Oh crap now I gotta find a disco ball for TTS...
Awesome content for a subfaction that doesnt get talked about enough . Def subbed.
Woot tyvm! Yeah isn't it kinda weird, I thought CSM were popular but I don't see many channels who devote much time to them for whatever reason. They're so fun on multiple levels so... It's strange!
Appreciate the sub, hopefully I got some good info coming out for ya going forward too
Thumbs up for loving the Disco Lord so much! But seriously, good work man, keep it up!
I would have thought the Disco Lord is better in Fellhammer, what with Transhuman vs ranged and their T9+ Stateline.
Felhammer is definitely valid for them but my big concern would be that they're mainly a melee unit, or at least love to tussle in CQB so they wouldn't get to take advantage of the detachment rule as often. Getting access to Adv&charge is a big boon too
I'm a dork for Discos if you couldn't tell so I'll probably do a video devoted to them at some point to hammer out once & for all who's best for them :P if only Soulforged worked for them
I think Abbie is really valuable in raiders. My biggest worry with this detachment is if the enemy keeps their valuable units off objectives. Abbie having built in rerolls means you aren't totally dependent on ruinous raid.
Great point on Abaddon & I agree about people trying to play around the objectives. I will say that's a good thing though as if they aren't on the obj that just let's you score but for sure it's not as straightforward as it might seem. They might just leave key units off so you can't use your strats on them etc. I think taking out the transports & the sort would be a good move too
But yeah these guys are looking incredibly strong & Abaddon will only help with that
I would add they can still score by keeping chaff on the objectives or using sticky, but good point regardless
Also good for the potential CP stack, and if Abby slams into an objective with a pack of auto-advanced 6" chosen... that's a 18-24" threat range with a wrecking ball of a unit.
@@johnj.spurgin7037isn’t the auto advance just on mounted and transport
you have no idea how (im)patiently I've been waiting for this one, great work FA
Lol sorry it took so long! This series has been a blast though, I think we only have Pactbound Zealots & Soulforged Warpack (my favorite!). Gotta save the best for last & all that :P
I'm theory crafting a list with 2 vindicators with 3 predators behind. I think this detachment adds heaps of value to vindicators with the assault and they're range being only 24". Just threat saturation with Rhino chassis everywhere and smoke/aoc it's gonna be fun as hell dude. Furthermore it feels kinda bad to shelve the forgefiends but the autocannon predators ×3 going up to possible ap 4 is just mental
Yeup, Predators are just too good in Raiders! Basically a discounted ~insert really good unit here
Love your stuff bro thanks for keeping this pace up. Got into playing this way to practice thanks to you.
Appreciate that man, that's awesome to hear it helped getting you into playing more & improving! These are my favorite kind of comments
Really enjoying these chaos detachment videos. Good job.
I’m a newer player who’s been trying to play RR, and this video has helped a ton! Do you mind if I ask if you have any thoughts about a few different units?
- Anything to say about Fabius Bile or Haarken Worldclaimer?
- Think a Helbrute could do anything of note (maybe with its aura) since the advancing helps its low mobility? Perhaps shooting along with Predators or maybe even trying to get close and charge with 2 fists+flamers and Tank Shock shenanigans…
- Any thoughts about Raptors in this detachment? I was thinking about maybe doing 5x Warp Talons and 5x Raptors or just 10x Raptors to try and save some points since the Talons are so pricy.
Glad you found it helpful!! That's half the point of my channel so it's great to hear that 😎 as for your questions:
Fabius is amazingly good / efficient in pretty much any detachment. The 3D attacks, buffing his squad, having an ablative wound with the acolyte, coming back to life etc etc etc for 85pt is some of the best. Haarken I'm not as sold on competitively but for casual he'll do just fine
Helbrute is great in detachments with re-rolls or 5+ Crits. Otw giving you maybe an extra ~20% efficiency on 2-3 units yet costs 130pt so it's either a draw or a net negative (imho!). The more you surround him with the better though
Raptors are great everywhere. Not for damage but scoring! A lot of GT (& my own lists) bring a few MSU squads to help do actions & whatnot. I'd def look into them
@@fatarchon
Thank you so much!! I really appreciate resources like this that break down the basics and present lots of options for how to expand off of them. I’ve definitely been blown away by all the help experienced players have offered and “new player questions” they’ve put up with! I had a ton of fun playing my first game with RR (against Grey Knights), but let’s just say it was a bit of a…”learning experience,” haha.
Helbrute buffs were useful, but considering I could get another Destructor for only 10pts more if I wanted stronger shooting or a Warpsmith for 60pts less if I wanted something to buff, I think I’ll consider something else…
I’m definitely going to try out some Raptors and see if I like them better than Bikers as good scoring units - my Bikers rolled poorly and didn’t perform well, but to be fair, I expect that’s much more a consequence of user error than fault of the unit itself!
And then just one like thing… Do you think Warp Talons are still worth it here now that they had their ability changed and cost a premium? Im kind of considering taking a Winged Daemon Prince (with Dread Reaver) to use in a similar role for 90-75pts cheaper.
@trevormacdonald9161 Glad to help man! I love talking CSM so hell I should almost thank you for reaching out lol
As for Warp Talons, I think they're still usable but 135pt is just a bit too much in the end (when combined with the nerfed rules at least). Bricks would probably be the way to go so you can help ensure they still go into reserves but otw I'd be looking at different options first. They aren't bad at all just overpriced though so you can still make them work imho!
Tyrants lash might be great for terminator brick, easy charges, can’t get locked in mele by chaff
Looking at it again, yeah that's probably a great call actually! Man I'm so happy with the Enhancements GW tossed us this edition
I personally want to try 10 terminators led by a sorcerer in terminator armor. With the scout enhancement, that means those bastards have scout, reroll advance, reroll charge, and advance and charge. I feel like this could be a quick and tanky threat. I have still have to test it tho.
I was thinking of putting 5 terminators and a sorcerer in a land raider.
Scout 6", move 10", disembark 3". That's 19" of movement for 6 terminators with a re-rollable charge on top
@@Dave.88 Land Raider doesn't get Scount from the guys inside. Only Dedicated Transports do, LR is just a normal Transport.
@@antongrigoryev6381 yeah I looked it up shortly after posting this. Tis a shame
Awesome video man! Im ao exited to play my first game of the new codex this week with this detachment. Im going legionnaire heavy with five x5man units. X3 cultists to block out the DZ and then transports and warp talons, with a DP qith wings for extra fun
Hell yeah man, best of luck with that!! Lego spam is a legit build especially with Red Corsairs! Sounds like a good list to start then off with :)
I'm going to be trying this out tomorrow with my Emperor's Children, Lucius with a 10 Man Squad with Chain Swords, advance, shoot a little, then use the chare strat, and even if you don't kill then you will fight first next tun and should. Should be fu
Yes I think EC are going to be very very strong with that Fight First
A fun combo to consider if you even swap legions is VotLW, that'd give you TWO units with Fight First.
Defiler meshes well as he has a free Counter Attack too (in any legion!)
Love em with emperors children, noise marines love finally having a bit of ap
Ohh, that's actually a great call! Yeah I think EC are sneaky good, the fact you can mix Fight First / efficient troops into any legion is pretty stronk
Cultists w Apostle will punch up incredibly hard. With a full squad that wounds terminators on a 4+ and a 3+ save, can do more damage than most expect. And the Apostle has LD 5+ for dark pacts.
Damn that's a really clever combo actually, I like it! I'd wonder if the Dark Commune might be a better option though? Get the Adv/Charge & +1H/W but only once per game
I do like Apostle though, a lot of people pass him over but he very much has good value esp. for units like the Cultists because he brings actual damage output of his own!
@@fatarchon I prefer the Apostle always being on. It is less threatening to most players minds. And people seem to forget how swingy his suicide bombers are.
If you go for a blob of infantry for tons of attacks at +1 to wound, I think Legionaries are better. Sure they cost more, but they are more durable, have better weapons, and in-built wound re-rolls that combos very nicely with +1 to wound.
@@antongrigoryev6381 That kinda defeats the purpose of a throwaway moveblock unit. I want the 23 model unit to Leroy Jenkins ASAP. It's big enough to block an entire flank from Orks and WE
@@paulshaw3907 So what's the purpose of that unit? If it's a throwaway moveblock unit, then DA is too much investment, you can get 10 more cultists instead and have points left.
These guys take the crown in terms of rules support for a raiders style army. Poor Drukhari
Yeah man I'm really happy with Renegade Raiders & the CSM codex as a whole. I'm a huge Drukhari fan too tho (did the name give it away? Lol) - the Skyplinter detachment is pretty damn good & mostly holding us over for now but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the codex brings some strong af surprises. Hoping we get some new kits too, even just a new character would be awesome!
I'm big on Kabals though (the shooty Dark Eldar) & sadly GW gives everything to the other cults mostly these days :(
@@fatarchonDrukhari are my first love … I mean army … and what drew me to your channel in the first place. Skysplinter is definitely holding its own pre-codex, but as you say, I hope the codex adds some flexibility with regard to competitive detachment choices rather than realistically just one choice
Oh dang were you one of the OGs? I went back & watched some of those old videos again just the other night & oof - I talked so slow & was at the peak of my alcoholic phase 😜 Still had great advice though lmao
I'd kill to go back to 8e Drukhari, aw those were the best of times.. I remember getting into them in 7th because I thought they sucked (... Which they kinda did) then 8th came along & I had an opponent accuse me of being a meta chaser hah. I loved the style tho & with them being so unpopular there wasn't much to go off of so we all got to like, discover out own builds
But I digress, yeah Dark Eldar are awesome. Very much agree with your sentiment that they're stuck with only a few viable builds tho. Court of the Archon spam, which will probably get Legend'd :(
Brother I watched all your 8e videos multiple times and took notes haha felt like I had a secret advisor. Would definitely love a couple new models, especially if the court is going legends. Grotesques would be epic 🤌
Keep doing what you’re doing and I’ll keep watching!
I have been waiting for a long time to use the new Iron Warriors detachment. But I'm not gonna lie, the army I built would be *awesome* with this. Back in 2020, the lore I wrote was that my Warsmith treasured the writings of the ancient Terran Warlord, Vulpus Germanicus. I'm set up for the fuckin' Blitzkrieg, that's what I'm trying to say!
Thanks for these amazing videos. They're the best CSM tactics on UA-cam.
:) thank you for the kind words, I tell my friends all the time how friendly all of you are so legit it's appreciated.
& I know how it goes to have torn feelings on which legion to run. I'm really partial to Soulforged Warpack atm but if I ever played a competitive game it'd be reeeeally hard to choose between them or these guys hah
That just means your warband can be an iron-warriors warband with a taste for blitzkrieg tactics as well as grinding attrition. It even makes sense! Blitzkrieg everything soft, then settle in with fellhammer against strongholds the blitzkrieg couldn't crack.
Honestly, this sounds EXACTLY like the perfect use case for the detachment system. Not tying lore to a hard faction and playstyle has it's advantages. It's up to the players to leverage it, and you're in the perfect position to do so.
@@johnj.spurgin7037 I appreciate your input! I love that idea and it's where my sensibilities want to run in 10th edition. I'm glad to hear from somebody who thinks like I do, a hybrid of narrative and tactics. I feel like a lot of people have abandoned the lore side of the game in favor of competitive. But I almost need a lore reason to want to do anything. If it doesn't make sense then it isn't worth doing! I think this channel is building a great community.
@@RSBurgener shame on them for that. Narrative is what makes the game really worth playing! Hell, once I get a hand on enough crusade rules I want to hombrew my own campaigns like pariah nexus.
@@johnj.spurgin7037 agreed. The designers give the armies rules based in the lore. It follows that an army list should be informed by it as well. I would definitely encourage you to do that. While 10th is streamlined for competitive purposes, it actually makes it far easier to homebrew your own rules as well. I think it has an unintended lore benefit. I am currently crafting a homebrew detachment for the Space Marine chapter I created last year. The army is 90% painted, and I just couldn't make them fight the way I envisioned. So I'm doing it myself.
I think this hyper-competative, sporty sensibility that the community has has at the moment is a passing fad and it will wane. They'll get bored with the hollow experience of all rules. I think you and I are ahead of the curve and we will see a return to the lore. It will take on a more narrative character in the coming years and the game will return to its roots. I think so anyway!
Hi the 3 rd list is realy great. Nice job😊
Thank you brother! Yeah normally the first list or 2 I show is for fluff or fun but then I always try to get something more competitive in there afterwards :)
Hn... have you any opinions on Renegade Raiders buffing Oblits? The advance helps their mobility, but they're still so pricey...
Ironically, I think Huron is legit better in Deceptors with redeloying all those Infiltrators, even if he himself can't do so as an epic hero.
You sorta hit the nail on their head with them being too pricey. Add to that they have random # of shots & it really starts to hurt :( Imagine rolling 2 shots on your 170pt squad, oof!
That said sometimes you aren't just going for whatever is the most efficient in which case yeah, the [ASSAULT] is super helpful for them as is the AoC strategem to reduce incoming AP, in cover they should be pretty damn resilient so in that sense they would have some play at least! Their profiles will love the additional AP too
But yeah, I look at a Vindicator for 5pt more or a Predator for 40pt less &... yeah. Save them for the fluffy lists :P
What do you think about Autocannon Havocs? I love that profile, great at picking up some "mild elites" - 3W 3+ save guys, like Agressors, Eightbound or Possessed, and with extra AP they can actually be good into Termies as well.
Also, Land Raiders. What do you think of them in this Detachment? Basically a Rhino, but much tougher and with four lascannons attached. Imo they're fun.
AC Havocs are fine! Basically a mix of both worlds but you don't really lose out on much at all, still have some AP & 3D is great obviously esp with how common 3W models can be
Same with Land Raider, might even have extra value because you're in a way getting a 75pt discount by not bringing a Rhino & with the strats we have it's esp strong here
Within 12" of your opponent's DZ is generally half the table. It doesn't say to be IN your opponent's DZ. Also love these videos!
Yeah it's really not hard at all to get on their side of the board (usually, obv depends on the match up!)
DP's & Lord Discordants were pracrically made to do that hah
Appreciate the comment man :)
@@fatarchon no worries and after almost 40 years playing chaos I am really looking forward to this codex.
Oh dang, if someone from the Realms of Chaos days is praising the new Codex that's a good friggin sign :) I only got into CSM at the start of 8th but I've always thought they had the best lore & style of any army
@@fatarchon I agree they do have the best lore especially the Iron Warriors. My original deamon prince was a converted necron destroyer that I made into a brain in a jar as to me the Iron Warriors would choose tech over "magic".
With the points increase to havocs are you still bringing 2 units of them?
No :( Such a dumb call by GW
@@fatarchon One unit or just not at all?
I haven't had a chance to try them out yet but tbh my gut says none at all. A Predator is only 5pt more & will give you a much better platform.. But then we have the rr hits/wounds strat so it's a tough call but yeah, I'd lean towards none
Not sure wtf GW was thinking. 120 was completely fair damnit!!
That's an awesome dark angels company of hunters detatchment! Oh, wait... that's not a....
Which detachment do you think would work the best against orks right now? We have a good number of ork players locally and I'm only now starting to collect CSM.
Hmmm, I'd think Pactbound Zealots. Orks during Waaagh have a 5++ so AP isn't as important, so getting as much output as you can is usually a good call. A brick of Undivided Possessed is one of the premier anti-Ork units in the game imho, just be sure to counter charge & not be the chargee if you can (in which case consider Fight on Death). Even other units though, Vindicators or Forgefiends with their Blast, Venomcrawlers for their cheap 12 shots etc etc
Love your content FatArchon.
Saw the reddit post and headed here for the vid!!!
Appreciate ya bub! Love my Reddit homies hah
Thanks
Appreciate you brother!! Dziękuję very much 😜
Not sure if you covered this but where did you find these models for tabletop simulator?
Check my latest TTS tutorial video, should have a link in the description :)
Edit: The Red Corsair specific ones were on the Workshop though! If you just search for "red corsair" they should come up
Thanks for the content
What workshops are you grabbing to get these unique WH models? One of my fav content creators! keep it up!
Here you go brother, all the download links are posted on my TTS tutorial (in the desc):
ua-cam.com/video/I6zkJ91WEiw/v-deo.htmlsi=Ne3GscKGIxIogzms
Hello late comment, but is it a good idead to split the havoc's weapons to 2 Lascannon and 2 Reapers then put them each in a rhino with legionaires
Idea here is too make use of the rhino's Firing deck 2 to shoot Lascannons or Reapers making the rhino like a pseudo tank which can poop out its guns after dying
So, not if you can help it, generally it's always better to specialize your squads. With Renegade Raiders especially you can use the strategem to rr all hits / wounds after disembarking so you don't really want to keep them loaded yours odds of actually killing your target with x4 of each weapon is muuuch better
That said if you have a limited collection then it's totally still workable, it's just not optimal is all. What I like to do is run x2 Havocs squads one with LC & the other with the Chain Cannons. That way I can drop off whoever needs the rr's & keep the other in the Rhino shooting from the firing ports
but if you only a single squad atm don't sweat it for now. Still build them that was & when you get a 2nd kit you can make get them both to dedicated squads. Other option is to convert some Legionaries with 40mm bases :)
Im thinking of running emperors children with this deatchment. What is your opinion on lucius and noise marines combined with this deatchment?
I think they're great! Noise Marines are some of the best infantry in the game as it is (from a points efficiency pov) & Lucius is a blender in combat
I would be torn in how to do their loadout because with Fight First I'd want to go melee with the NMs but they have really good shooting. I'd prooobably do a brick of 10 all melee & then some MSU squads with ranged weapons for shooting
But yeah I think they'd work good in this detachment! VotLW is another good choice for them too, you can get *two* units with Fight First with their strat
@@fatarchon I think you just send Lucius with Legionaries, and keep Noise Marines for shooting.
When you talk about jump infantry being able to fall back over enemy models using opportunistic raiders are you sure they can do that via fall back ?
I don't see any reason why not! Here's from the core rule book but def let me know if I'm mixed up on anything:
FLYING
If a model can FLY, then when it makes a Normal, Advance or Fall Back move, it can be moved over enemy models as if they were not there, and can be moved within Engagement Range of enemy models when making such a move. Note this also means that MONSTER and VEHICLE models that can FLY can be moved over other MONSTER and VEHICLE models when making such a move. However, models that can FLY cannot end their move on top of any other models or within Engagement Range of any enemy models.
My buddy keep saying you can't modify a stat more the once. So how does hex with this detachment?
That's a common source of confusion. You can't *improve* your armor by more than 1, nothing about debuffs :) Obviously hits/wounds are different but most people get confused on the stacking AP. If your friends ever don't believe you just Google "wahapedia core rules" then ctrl+f - Wahapedia is a godsend for settling stuff quickly
Saving Throw: Roll one D6 and modify by the attack’s AP.
- If the result is less than the Save of the model being rolled for, the saving throw is failed and that model suffers damage.
- Otherwise, that attack is saved.
- An unmodified saving throw of 1 always fails.
- A saving throw can never be improved by more than +1.
Hope that helps man! Definitely something to take advantage of hah. You could also tell them AP2 weapons wouldn't work if that was the case too I suppose. These days the stuff that can't be modified by so much is specifically called out so it's not a blanket term like back when.
Another one that confuses people is leadership. The stat can't be modified worse than 9 but the vast vast majority of debuffs effect the roll not the stat so it's almost a non-issue
@@fatarchon Thanks so much, thats wonderful! Also could you explain how to do daisy chain with embarking/disembarking rhinos? easily one of the best channels for 40k
No problem man! & for the daisy chain its pretty straightforward - basically it's when you disembark a squad from a Rhino (before moving the transport) , then immediately jump a different squad into that same rhino. Doing it that was, the squad that jumped out can move / charge / whatever & then so can the Rhino too. It's mainly to key off Strategems or give the guys who disembark +3" movement etc etc
daaaaaaamn they look like alot of fun :D
They are man! Both fluffy lists & competitively
We'll see if they're more fun than Pactbound Zealots tho mwhaha
@@fatarchon yeah they are one massive alpha strike
Love your vids bub
Love your comment bub 😘 lol, appreciate it
Does rhino really get a scout move with the lord's enchancemet?
Yup! So long as every model inside of it has Scout its xferred to the transport too. Should he in the Core Rules
Yes, if every model in a dedicated transport has scout, so does the transport.
@fatarchon damn, beat me to it haha
Lol well I get to cheat, every time my phone buzzes I take a look 😜 You were close tho!
No, it doesn't work like that.😊
Thanks a lot, I really like your videos, man) but can you help with 1000 points roster and 750 points roster?)
Sure man, here's a 1k to give you and idea of their playstyle. Chaos Lords + Legos go in the Rhino to trumble up the middle. Cultists sit back & hold your home / screen. Venom's either support the Legos or skirmish the other obj & vindi gives you some AT
For 750 you could just drop the Rhino & Vindicator (or similar). Also you might consider Fabius Bile over the Lords in either ver of the list, he's exceptional at smaller pt games & tbh I'd 100% include him if it were me:
[b]++ Army Roster (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [995pts] ++[/b]
[b]+ Configuration +[/b]
[b]Battle Size[/b]
[b]Detachment Choice:[/b] Renegade Raiders
[b]Show/Hide Options[/b]
[b]+ Character +[/b]
[b]Chaos Lord [105pts]:[/b] Daemon hammer, Dread Reaver, Plasma pistol, Warlord
[b]Chaos Lord [90pts]:[/b] Daemon hammer, Plasma pistol
[b]+ Battleline +[/b]
[b]Cultist Mob [50pts][/b]
. Cultist Champion: Autopistol
. 9x Cultist w/ autopistol and brutal assault weapon: 9x Autopistol, 9x Brutal assault weapon
[b]Legionaries [90pts]:[/b] Chaos icon
. Aspiring Champion: Heavy melee weapon, Plasma pistol
. 2x Legionary w/ chainsword: 2x Astartes chainsword, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Close combat weapon
. Legionary w/ heavy melee weapon
. Legionary w/ other weapon: Lascannon
[b]Legionaries [90pts]:[/b] Chaos icon
. Aspiring Champion: Heavy melee weapon, Plasma pistol
. 2x Legionary w/ chainsword: 2x Astartes chainsword, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Close combat weapon
. Legionary w/ heavy melee weapon
. Legionary w/ other weapon: Lascannon
[b]+ Mounted +[/b]
[b]Chaos Bikers [70pts]:[/b] Chaos icon
. Biker Champion: Power fist
. Biker w/ meltagun: Astartes chainsword
. Biker w/ meltagun: Astartes chainsword
[b]+ Vehicle +[/b]
[b]Chaos Vindicator [185pts]:[/b] Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher
[b]Venomcrawler [120pts][/b]
[b]Venomcrawler [120pts][/b]
[b]+ Dedicated Transport +[/b]
[b]Chaos Rhino [75pts]:[/b] Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher
[b]++ Total: [995pts] ++[/b]
@@fatarchon thank you again, it’s really helpful:)
Anytime 😊 Glad to help
You can put scouts in transport but it's weak.
I don't think it's weeeak but yes 25pt is a pretty penny to spend on 6'. I think it depends on the table, if there's cover you can hide behind then it can be pretty strong (imho!). Basically gain 9" to your infantry if you just disembark T1. Chosen with Adv&charge would love that! But for sure we all have our own playstyles, I get confused by some of the combos other people bring up all the time too hah
Appreciate the input man
CONVINCE ME THAT HELDRAKES ARE USABLE IN ANY WAY LOL
Lmao, I'll try to bring them up in the Soulforged Warpack review but yeah... He's still paying for the sins of 6th to 8th edition hah