Why Norris Should Have Ignored Team Orders
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
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The worst thing out of all this is that it tainted Oscar's first win. Notice how McLaren's sloppy strategy and emotional blackmailing of Lando is getting more discussion than Oscar's first win. I feel for the guy.
Kinda true, but the more sober driver and team celebrations would have been like that however he won. He's just like that. He's just not the type to be jumping around. He's fine.
Oscar is one of my favorite drivers and I have mixed feelings about his first win.
I hope he wins the next one by outperforming everyone and with proper merit.
Realistically if you have a competitive mindset, you get on the radio and tell the team that you don't want the swap and that Lando can keep the lead cause the gifted win just wouldn't feel good. But Oscar is too nice for that.
Also it's concerning to see how many people don't see that it was actually unfair to Lando (regardless of the championship points).
I reminded of how Carlos Sainz has said how he treats Singapore last year as his first true win, as his first actual win at Silverstone in 2022, was (like Piastri here) marred by inter-team controversy and bad strategy from the team calls that made the win feel tainted and undeserved.
Hopefully Piastri, like Sainz, will hopefully get another win down the line that will wash the bitter taste of this one away, still not a great sign though that were comparing McLaren to 2022 Ferrari.
@@viniciusbraga9881 I am Oscar's fan but I'm afraid that the team now will support Norris and I don't see Oscar having the chance. I do hope Oscar shut my mouth and have another win but now the team will try to give, like it's been doing, all the support to Norris based in his "sacrifice" he did in the Hungaroring. I don't think there is a chance for Norris getting the champ... not in a million years.. What I can see is that the British media has strongly reacted and In some cases (P Windsor channel) got remarkably upset and all the way against Piastri like he had committed a crime....
Mark Webber was having *MULTI-21* ptsd
classic 😂😂😂
no soft language its called ''shell shock''
@@robbieceltic1036Carlin are you alive? 😂
Andrea Stella was getting "Felipe, Fernando behind is faster than you!" vibes
I love the side by side of the podium from this race, and the multi-21 incident, because Lewis was 3rd in both cases, and the multi-21 podium he looks really awkward, and this time he almost looked like he was trying not to laugh that it happened again.
2 years in and Oscar's race craft can only improve, I have no doubt that he will be giving Lando a serious headche sooner rather than later.
I have no doubt Lando will be no match for Oscar sooner rather than later
@@TheEmolanoMeh, mabye, I’m Australian and I love Oscar. But Lando has been consistently quicker, in quali and races. Oscar has been in the car a year and half now. He can still improve his race management, but I think Lando has him covered on raw pace.
@@Hydraav2 for now!
I don't think it's crazy to say that he might even out perform Lando next season the way he's developing
@@Hydraav2lol they have the same amount of race wins, compare how long they have been racing 😂
McLaren should have told him to give the position back to Piastri ASAP. Then telling him that they're still free to race. Norris would have taken back 1st place within a couple of laps instead of dragging that drama on till the end.
Highly unlikely that he would have had overtaken Oscar on track, the speed advantage of 1-2 tenths a lap that Lando had wasn't really enough to overtake on this track. They should have pitted Oscar first and let them race then, they would have finished next to each other but chances are that Oscar would have still won, but it would have been a fair fight.
@pro_grapist I get the point that people are making about how Oscar might not have wanted to push the car. But he messed up on turns while apparently not pushing so I honestly don’t think we can say that if things were different who would have won.
@@davis7428 You have a point, Oscar was indeed pushing and making mistakes so no one can tell for sure what would have happened, I still think that it would have been very difficult for Lando to overtake, which could end terribly if he got impatient and desperate. Most likely McLaren wouldn't have let them race if they pitted Oscar first.
@@pro_grapistwell that was their times when they both were in clean air. If Lando had DRS and slipstream I’m sure he would have made easy work of Oscar in a few laps
@@pro_grapist yah the main thing is that McLaren fuck up. I personally feel that lando would have been very close to or would have beaten Oscar which is in no way a diss to him. He raced super well, I just feel that lando has the reason to push harder and the ability to fight
Mclaren need to stop acting like they are only fighting for the constructors because they definitely have a chance at catching max now, it’s like they are the ones not seeing the bigger picture
Hopefully Lando has made that point to them post-race in Hungary! Watching them hold Lando back has been bloody frustrating!
McLaren should never be asking a driver who still has a chance of winning the championship this year to give up points to his teammate. McLaren's reasoning for why it was important to switch the drivers back doesn't even make much sense. Covering Lewis? Give me a break. "Re-establishing the rightful order?" Being "better prepared in case there's a full course yellow"?! You can't be serious -_-
They are just being stubborn incompetent bosses who put too much value on their employees following orders, and who were too arrogant, stubborn, and inflexible to admit that they had made a mistake.
Worst of all is just that they created unnecessary drama and sent a clear message to Lando that they don't believe he can win the championship.
Once Piastri nearly lost it and lost more time, they should have just given up on asking them to switch places. It's one thing to ask your drivers to switch places when they're right next to each other, but Norris was already significantly ahead of Piastri
Small change out scored Max 7-8 point at all remaining races
To be fair, the constructors is the bigger picture. There's no prize money associated with a driver winning the championship as it's one of the more interesting conundrums in F1. The prestige and the glory comes with the driver winning the championship based on the driver's individual performance. However, the amount of prize money that a team gets is based on their standing in the constructors which is dependent on how well both drivers perform.
Prime Vettel did it best. sometimes being selfish is better for your career. lets hope those 7 points dont cost him in the end.
he’s not getting anywhere close to max and i’m not even a max fan..
@@nightwing8666 11 races, 11 more meltdowns.
Max is just 2 DNFs away...
@@nightwing8666 Yeah I agree. I'm not a Verstappen fan either but assuming he doesn't throw anymore points away like he did in Hungary, it's still his championship to lose I think. Gotta say though, I'm not anti-Max Verstappen or anything but Hungary was a lowpoint for him. I get that he was annoyed with the car and the race in general but he was insufferable on the radio. That move he tried on Hamilton was the icing on the cake. No way he was making the corner with that overtake.
Drivers championship is already for max. I'm not a verstappen fan I don't like him tbh but we can't have any hopes unfortunaly the season is too random to decide if McLaren will keep up like this.
@@D4C_LoveTrain1no. max is 3 dnfs away from norris IF norris wins all of those races, even then he’d need a fastest lap point or two…
if max continues this while norris gets p1/2 then the end of the season will be interesting, but max is not 2 dnfs away from norris
That would be shooting yourself in the foot.. what if lando needed a favour from the team or piastri or needed to pit first... fuck even Sainz said it, if they gifted him the position with an undercut its easy give the position which is NOT yours.... (his words) I'm quite certain carlos has no secret agenda against lando, quite the opposite actually
Completely agree. The team favoured you, give the place back as agreed. Completely robbed Oscar of the joy of celebrating your first win, whilst he got to enjoy his with crowd surfing and biased broadcasting championing his gifted win
Except this was it, this was the favour he needed (if you want to call it that), to get 7 points closer to Max
@@diogoribas6420PRIME first win opportunity for oscar & it wasn't discussed at all before hand. This would've been an absolutely terrible way of calling in a favour so last second and unfairly. Lando ultimately made the right choice. Also I really feel he could've just rectified the pit cock up and would've been completely valid in battling oscar for the win on track, who would complain in such a scenario. Oscars a saint anyways it's the season midpoint and he has a win under his belt he's not the type of guy who wouldn't try help lando out
Bet Carlos was thinking back to his days at Toro Rosso when he was asked to let Max through to try and pass a driver he had been unable to pass, on the understanding Max would give the position back if he failed. He did fail but then refused to give the position back to Carlos. That really rankled with Carlos who felt it was unfair. Max didn’t’ care. An early sign of his ruthlessness.
Just wait till the last race of the season when every single point will matter, then Mclaren will have some questions to answer (to themselves).
Actually crazy how Lando and Mclaren have dropped a potential 36 points swing in the last 4 races. 7 in Spain, Austria another 7, Silverstone blunder another 7 and 15 swing this weekend.
I’m honestly glad that Norris looked at the big picture; McLaren’s pit strategy was the one that messed it up (again), not Lando & Oscar
True. This was easily solveable but the strategy and comms team said let's make it uncessarily complicated.
Lando showed he isn't wdc material. He just should have turned the radio off. If he is 6 points short, noone wil remember what a nice guy he was.
That's a weak mind set, I'm guessing your finishing second in life behind well... you know...
@@ImShinndog who me?
@danilonden3782 huh? Na, the odd ball that wrote the post lol :p
When aldas uploading this frequent, you know its a spicy f1 season
There's so much to talk about now that the season has become so great. Although I definitely struggle to upload as often as other creators since my video take a while to make from start to finish. Glad you're enjoying
@@Aldas001you’re the only f1 creator I follow religiously, no matter how late the content comes, it’s always worth it
Keep up the good work mate
Sad scenes seeing Oscar not even being sprayed with the Champagne on the podium. And the radios post race were even worse, like a funeral. I can't support a team that has the fast car but makes everything looks like a clown show
Bro just described Ferrari 2022
@@Eriksen-wp3tvthe difference is, Ferrari in the first half of 2022 was actually a legit title contender had it not been for their unreliability
Like other teams haven't done that before. 2002 ferrari, 2013 red bull, 2022 ferrari, 2017 mercedes
i think you guys are big delusionals if you compare with ferrari etc, mclaren is not fighting for the title, if you think different then you probally fanboys or just stupids.
I think part of that is also that he'd already won a sprint in F1, just not a Grand Prix. That's another reason why I don't like sprints, your first GP win should be a massive deal but if you've already won sprints it must dull the excitement a bit.
The fact that McLaren tried to victimise Norris is still so crazy to me
You mean "bully"?
@@KevKlopper they straight emotionally manipulated him
It was embarrassing to listen to live
And, for me, the excuse of "you're destroying your tyres could lead to a significant break in trust". In my opinion Lando's race engineer is not doing a great job in communicating with lando. The whole back and forth was pitiful
We know you'll do the right thing
Lando won’t forget this and will remember this when it’s time to re-sign
u think that but cant call a strategy or f himself not listening to pitwall russia 2021!! he wont resign he will pull a ricciardo cos oscar is so much better then him its not even funny(yes it is) at one point oscar will switch on and then its bye bye lando and lando stops and goes to wec be teammates with de vries
@@robbieceltic1036 also nando and rusell always do shet mistakes when in front, they arent suited for titles
Russell can't chase, he will crash. Lando can't do tire strategy alone. @@Nanoarciere
@robbieceltic1036 Apart from your trolling and hatred of Lando.... yes Piastri will be faster soon. which is why McLaren did what they did. They won't care if they lose Lando and have identified their next #1 driver. So Lando is going to start thinking of his next move.
@@Nanoarciere good point
Personally, I think it was the right thing for Lando to let Oscar past. However, it wasn’t right for Norris to be childish against Lewis… Hamilton didn’t do anything wrong, and he gets somewhat insulted!
Lando is certainly not accustomed to winning in F1 quite yet.
Winning with the fastest car isn't as easy as he thought after all. 😬
i would be pissed if i just lost a race that was gonna win.
@@Selendeki but it wasn't backhanded tho 😭 Lewis just complimented their pace.
Normally a driver will comment on the handling or something, like Max or Charles have done.
@@whisthegreat He'd be more pissed at pissing away P1 on the first turn of the race when Oscar went inside 🤣
Everyone discussing about how Lando behaved instead of discussing racing just shows what modern F1 became.
Please go watch some old races and see if Senna, Schumacher, Vettel, Alonso or Hamilton would let their teammates win instead of fighting for every point they can get.
Everyone seems to forget how ruthless Schumacher was, how Alonso blocked Hamilton, what Vettel done to Webber and how Hamilton behaved in 2016 finale.
Did they all listen to team orders or decided to win. Seem this was all forgotten because they won championship.
We want to see racing and not listen to team orders and drivers being correct and pleasing everyone. They are in F1 to compete an win.
Lando could have said no to the plan from the beginning. If he agreed to the plan that after the pit stop they should swap, then he should do it. End of discussion. It's about integrity, not about letting your teammate win. And he could have swapped right away and raced until the end, that would have been a fair game, but he didn't. And that's on him.
@@damdoumibou3ajaja338 I agree with you that Lando should have behaved differently but my point is that the wins of F1 races should not be decided before the race or with team orders instead of chasing the championship. McLaren proved they are not willing to give everything to win the drivers championship at this moment.
@@Ivan-js3sl I agree! I wish we had equal engines for everyone so that we end this 1-2 nonsense!
I agree, this sport is for social justice warriors and nerds now.
This! Thank you the way people are criticizing Lando is crazy! It’s racing? You win by racing! Expecting to win by being let through is crazy! What is f1 becoming? 🤦🏻♀️😅
I like how you include Leclerc along side Alonso, Hamilton and Verstappen, even though he has had more choke jobs than Lana Rhoades
You could've changed the last two words tho. Leclerc is also very unlucky at times
I can think of one race he really bottled the win. The others are a reach
You should’ve named the video “how Oscar Piastri finally got his first win” or something. You’re putting his win second on the media.
But that’s not really what the video is about. He titled it correctly.
That will kinda be clickbait. Like it's not mainly focused on Oscar's win.
McLaren made Oscar's win an undeserved one. As people said countless times, have Lando Norrissian give back position after maximum a lap and then let them fight it out. Like it was, they sabotaged Lando and Oscar won jack nothing
Sorry I didn’t specify, but at 5:30 he mentions that the team and Lando took away from Oscar’s win. This video does the same thing with the title. You could start off the video celebrating his win rather than feeding to the controversy. Honestly, I didn’t think Lando should’ve given the place back, but also think Oscar deserved that win. All this is on the team.
@@bern7851 I didn’t think he should have given it back either. I’m think they have given up hope on the Drivers Championship and they are just going to try and get the Constuctors. But I felt awful for Lando during that.
Team politics, emotional blackmail, and thinly veiled threats have no place on the racetrack. Let the drivers race and their performance will decide who the winner is.
This upcoming Belgian Grand Prix will be a good chance for Lando to prove he is still in the championship before the summer break. It's a short turnaround from Hungary, and Red Bull seems to be on the back foot, so he needs to pounce while the opportunity presents itself
For the last 2 years, Red Bull was built for Spa. It'll be tough for McLaren because they struggled here last year (when conditions were dry)
To be honest, I don't think Lando has it in him to fight for a title yet. His racecraft has room for improvement, and with the fastest car since Miami, I feel like he should have at least four or five wins at this point. I just don't see it happening, unless he gets his elbows out more.
A lot of people say a title fight is impossible but, Jenson Button won only 6 races during his time in Brawn but it was enough for him to win the Championship.
You have to remember how dominant that Brawn was in early season, though. Other teams couldn't even get close to them.
This comparison would work better if (when) Max wins the title.
If I remember correctly Jenson built up a healthy points gap in the earlier part of that season though. It got more difficult as the season went on because Brawn didn't have the funds to upgrade the car if my memory serves me right. I feel like it's gonna be a similar story this year with Verstappen and that gap he built up earlier in the season might just be enough for him to clinch it (Assuming he keeps a cool head and doesn't throw points away like he did in Hungary of course!). I still think it's Max's championship to lose for sure!
That was also in an era where we had 17 races. This year has 24 so definitely a lot more points on offer
Vettel was not great in 2009 and the Renaul engine that Red Bull used always caused problems.
Keke Rosberg only won 1 race but took the championship. As long as Lando is at least 2nd consistently and Max flounders he has a shot.
The problem from Lando's point of view is that if you hand back the place you look like someone who's too much of a 'nice guy' to win a title. Senna, Schumacher, Alonso, Verstappen, Hamilton, Vettel? None of them would have complied, and while there'd be a bit of moaning about it in the immediate aftermath, in the long term they'd do themselves some good by showing everyone they had the killer instinct required to go all the way. You don't want to end up with people seeing you in the same light as Coulthard or Barrichello, too nice and selfless to really succeed.
mclaren mudded piastri's first win
Sooo bad should have Bein a great moment for piastri
@@emanuelsosa8 pretty sad his first win celebration had "sorry" in the first sentence.
Many past champions, most actually, would not have conceded the position. That is all that I will say on the matter =-)
Oscar doesn't need to outqualify his teammate, Lando always drops a position
If Lando did that then I would love see Oscar not play any team games to help Lando this season.
No pulls, no defenses, no full send.
What I don't understand is why they gave both cars conflicting messages. They told Lando earlier in the race he was free to race Oscar (I think they literally said on the radio 'You're free to race the papaya car') only to change their mind later on and they also told Oscar at his final pitstop not to worry about Lando because he'll give the place back. Once again McLaren made this more difficult for themselves then they had to. Lando not giving the place up immediately certainly felt like him sending a message and trying to mark his territory in the team. You make a good point about Oscar too, he drove a great race in Hungary and if that's a sign of things to come from him he needs to keep showing the team he's not there to be Lando's wingman, he's there to win!
I get that Oscar lost his position by McLarens mistake, but why were they so determined for Oscar to win. I mean, what would they lose if they let lando win?
They would've lost Oscar's trust in the team. They'd already fucked him big time in silverstone, throwing him under the bus again wouldn't been very nice
They also fucked Piastri last year in guess what track😂😂
@@VOLATIL22 I guess you are right
Backroom betting deals? They put their money on Oscar for the W.
Can’t believe I’ve been watching you for 5ish years. Love your grounded takes
I've never had any respect for Lando despite his undeniable skill. After his outburst in the cooldown room with Lewis, I genuinely cannot see why anyone would like him at all
If I was Lando I wouldn’t give up a place again. He got his first gp win cool, now time to fight
I hope Norris has assurances that every other decision this season will go his way now. Fair enough to give back Piastri his maiden win, but now if Piastri is 9th and Norris is 10th they need to swap - for the rest of the season
You can't be serious.☠️
He is, Norris supporters subscribe to the let the rich spoiled brat win at all costs theory.
I think it’s also important to look at this from a marketing perspective. Lando is probably the most marketable alongside Charles (and maybe Ric but that’s going away). The title is unlikely to come down to these 7 points, and Piastri is more likely to give him more support in the future now if it does too…but a downward media spiral is almost certain to hurt him even financially. Back when seb did this neither sponsorships nor social media were as much of a thing.
I think overall smart move because he’d likely have ended up without the title and without the brand he has right now.
7:30
For the rest of the season Oscar will be team player, In this situation you give Oscar his first win, You still gain points over Max and have a good teammate relationship.
Not quite to the same level but Oscar will have to play the role of 2021 Sergio Perez, Especially for the last 3-4 races, For the next 7 you will have a fair fight but Lando needs to sacrifice this one to reap the rewards at the end of the season when Oscar will be more willing to have his race goal as "slow down Max" instead of "Win"
Oscar had a good but tough 2023, It was clear Lando was better all round, 2024 is much closer, The win is a weight off his shoulder and perhaps he will win the next one or two but in the final few races he has to remember what Lando was willing to do, It's a strong bargaining chip.
vettel, alonso, schumacher havent won championships by trusting their teammates, they were utterly ruthless on track and the way to win championships is definitely by showing your team that you are number one, you are in contest of the drivers title, and you DEFINITELY should have the teams priority.
Oscar has _always_ played the team game whenever they ask him. I'm happy Norris returned the favor to him last weekend.
@@Wolfywolf7 yh I agree, But not they really have a car capable of winning maybe both championships and almost any race weekend too.
So it’s a next level of what’s at stake, If you’re the rookie not quite at the level of Lando, Still figuring out tyre management etc it’s easier to play the team game but when you’re almost neck and neck and fighting for wins you need a teammate willing to ruin his own race strategy for you.
@@salim_abid_ True that
I wonder if Oscar will ever eventually pressure Lando out of McLaren. With his trajectory over the past year and a half, it's a real possibility.
@@Wolfywolf7 I don’t think so, I think Oscar will leave first, Not because of pressure but maybe to be a lead driver elsewhere.
Lando is to Mclaren what Leclerc is to Ferrari.
The beloved young driver totally glued to the team
Could you imagine if Verstappen ignored team orders. The title on this video would be very different. Sick of this guy’s bias.
He'd have all of England and Skysports all over him.
That's rather a short sighted take. Lando and Max aren't in the same position at all. You don't know what people would say. You're biased because of past scenarios, which were completely different than this.
Verstappen superfan found 😂 I love how you decide to add Verstappen to this conversation when it has nothing to do with him lol pathetic
Typical Max fan😑🤦🏾♂️
I don't know what Aldas would say about my take, but one big difference I have with Verstappen and Norris on team orders is Max will make it explicitly clear on the radio when he disagrees with a team order, and he's even gone so far as to preemptively discuss his view on team orders in private with his team. Meanwhile, Lando is anything but upfront, bargaining with the team and going silent. Both can be criticised for their approach, but at least Max is very honest about his view, whereas Lando is indecisive and chaotic, which is toxic to the team's ability to trust him.
This might be a long shot but I’m thinking that piastri might have an exit clause in his contract and maybe getting a win closes that exit clause
He absolutely shouldn't have ignored.
And he did it right.
Imagine next year or even this year, if lando needs a position to take the championship I'm certain that oscar would never give any position ever again independent of the situation, championship or not.
Just because oscar is subdue and doesn't show much emotion don't go on thinking he's gonna take a beating and stay down.
It’s not about “who deserves to win” it’s about the Drivers/Constructors Championship. They missed out on closing in on Max having a bad weekend.
I think if Mclaren maintain their advantage next year.. Oscar will be the spearhead to challenge for the title rather than Lando.. Oscar is just so much more calm and mature for his age and experience in F1.. he gives off so much Kimi 2003-05 vibes.. less talking, less emotions and ruthless pace on track..and this time Mclaren have relaible machinery unlike that era..
Lando Norris Villain arc loading…..
Norris doesn't have the balls
Agree, and even if they pitted Piastri first Lando would have caught up to him with his faster pace on the mediums. The argument that Piastri got away first at the start on the first corner so he should be ahead, to me is bs, it's a 70 lap race, not 1 corner race. In the last 10 laps it was obvious the papaya will be 1-2 so why swap them and not let their #1 driver get the max points to help him catch up to Max in the points? Some commentary says Oscar was so calm and cool on his first win, no! He's unhappy because it was a swap win, not racing win!
This! Saying oscar deserved the win anyway when he was 6 seconds behind and drove off track at the end is wild! Those fans must have only seen 2023 races and thought that’s how racing works, you start on pole and stay ahead for all of the race. But that’s not how racing usually plays out and actually loosing positions and taking them back during the race is what makes the whole race interesting!
Oscar has previously let Lando go through without arguing the point
Different circumstance
@@arglebargle5531Maybe, but cmon now.
He's not the one who's #2 in the driver's championship, or who has the best chance of winning the championship. Ordering your driver who has the best chance of winning the championship to give up points to their teammate is absolutely incompetent, and not only because they're sabotaging their chances of winning the championship, but also because they're sending a clear message to Lando that they don't think he can win the championship, that they don't think he's earned the right to be given that priority, and they're also just risking harming their relationship with him. It's absolutely idiotic to put your #1 driver in that position.
It's also terrible for F1's brand image as a whole, not good for Norris's brand image, and terrible for McLaren's brand image as well.
How can anybody who knows anything about F1 history not understand what a terrible idea it was to order Norris to give up a position when he's bloody 5.5 seconds ahead of his teammate with two laps to go?!!!
@@syncmonismis MCL really care WDC that much? I don’t think so. Not worth it for this point
@@syncmonism what a load of BS. Mclaren have stated ad nauseam that there is no #1 /2 driver setup in their org at this time. terrible for F1 / Norris / Mclaren brand? come on, hyperbole much? there were pre agreed rules. Yes Mclaren stuffed up thinking about whats behind and thus giving Lando the undercut, but Martin Brundle stated it best, Lando should have swapped the place asap and then if he was actually faster then pressure Oscar from behind and race to pass.
Hopefully Lando sees this as he's got something to prove and dominate the 2nd half of the season
Imagine Oscar performing better than Lando from now & challenging Max to championship
It would have been way cool to watch Lando follow team orders and Piastri take the lead and wave Lando by for the win. That would have told Mclaren from both drivers in front of the world to “blank off.”
The worst thing is that most people don't even realize that Lando wouldn't have the chance to win if they pitted them in the correct order. The undercut is about 2-3 seconds, Oscar was already about 2 seconds ahead. That makes a gap of 4-5 seconds for Lando to cut down on. For the whole final stint, Lando made about 4 seconds to Oscar, who was probably more focused on "am I going to get this win stolen away from me" rather than driving. But even if this was the pace difference, Lando would only be able to close up to Oscar, without even having the opportunity for an overtake attempt. So Oscar does fully deserve this win, but now it feels like it was given to him. Very dumb decision by McLaren, they're playing things like they're trying to steal a win from the fastest car, rather than actually having the fastest car.
This whole narrative is a bit stupid. Lando only got the lead because the team favored him *because* he was well behind Piastri's pace for most of the race. Now people are saying that Lando was "robbed" or "gave up" 7 points, but he would've never had a chance at those points if McLaren hadn't undercut Piastri twice.
He ran the race that Mclaren gave him.
Also, Oscar couldn't close the gap later on. So at that point Oscar had no pace either 🤷♂️
Lando was just outside DRS range before pitting. He had a decent claim for the race win.
Oscar’s final stint was horrible. If he wanted the win, he should have driven faster 🤷🤷
Mclaren already know he won’t be a champion 😂
I would've loved to see the start of The Papaya War
The way nico rosberg looks at stella at the end is so me!!
I haven't watched yet but personally i think he shoulda just let oscar past straight away then in all likelihood passed him again to win the race but after pushing it as far as he did i felt he had to follow through all the way. He cast doubt on his loyalty without any of the upside of winning.
He would have been told to hold position and not to race
@@kingduck88 They gave him permission to race before the pitstops put him in front. He was just told to keep it clean.
@@braveheart4603you don’t ask a driver to drop 6 seconds just so they can then go for the overtake a lap later that’s idiotic at that point just let lando stay ahead and tell Oscar to get a move on
@@kingduck88 But they did ask him and he decided to oblige them so he'd have been better doing it as early as possible rather than the end of the race.
That's exactly why i said originally once he didn't hand it back straight away he shoulda just kept going. What he ultimately decided was the worst of all his options.
The team also done terribly, I'm focusing here on what Norris could control on his end.
@@braveheart4603 iirc he had permission to race through the mid 40 laps, not the rest of the race
You should never ask a driver to let someone pass. Never. Max wouldn't listen and he'd be right.
Wrong. It's a teammate, just because Max is an asshole doesn't mean anyone else will be. Hamilton gave up a position to Bottas while in a tight title battle against Vettel which he was losing at that point, and he still did it as instructed. Team chemistry goes well in the long run.
@@gabrielnunez7623 No one wants to see that shit. It's entertainment in the end, so let them drive ffs. Max ain't an asshole just because he doesn't give a shit about your opinion, mate.
@@gabrielnunez7623 teammate is ur first target destroy him mentally and physically and then the biggest on the grid you want to be the best right so u must be like the big champions are lewis,max,fernando,sebastian were all bastards but these drivers nowadays are being forced to be woke cant do this or that their babyproving F1 what??? but their chairman MBS hates women thru religion iserts him in victories did we ever hear from the complained the redbull lady made officially?? about horner nothing so everything around the actual racing is holy crap wtf jos made him so he was ready for this crap the very first time he had a compatible car he got the title by being a bastard!! and ur a believable person right? ''multi21'' thats ur tinder profile right? vettel in singapore to leclerc 2019 totally slipped ur mind like''slavery'' last thing iam SERIOUS when i say this iam a holycrap hes a huge MFer and i am sooooo??? almost didnt get up from that suckerpunch i am honest about what i think and the rest?? i know the group hate shit i dont care they say nothing only scream and complaine even acting female whatever that still means i dont want to offend the obese holyshit iam a st@pid MFer identifying myself as a ''flessen likker'' look it up(or not) when there clearly a obese holyshit iam a st@pidMFer iam so proud of this iam going to send a hashtag telling the world how brave i was 😂😂😂😂
That "I know you'll do the right thing" would have ended any loyalty I had to the team. Make it an outright order or turn him loose to win on his own. Piastri and Webber know how to be grown ups about things like this.
What they did was create an unnecessary spectre of drama that doesn't exist, and put tension between two drivers who might at some point have to race against ach other for reals.
It’s an uncomfortable situation for everyone involved. But like you said, Norris closed that window of opportunity for a fair fight when he was indecisive and didn’t make the swap early on so he can fight Piastri on merits. Still, even after missing that window, it would be a short sighted move to ignore that team order. They need to maintain a good relationship with Piastri, not set an example for him to defy the team later in the season for his own benefit. McLaren doesn’t want a repeat of 2007.
I think if Lando had his way on multiple occasions this season, he’d have more race wins under his belt. However the McLaren pitfall are letting him down on that score and I get the impression that they’re not aiming at winning the drivers title, which is disappointing especially as a McLaren fan.
McLaren is that manipulative partner we all had
They really are
What I don't like is that we think that we have to be mean and selfish to be successful. Does success eqaute to being selfish ??
Nico did make that case to Andrea Stella about the "at your convenience" that Mclaren needs to be more clear on that front.
We should remember how Lando waited for McLaren to get a competitive car. He has been a team player for many years and the team benefited from him in harsh times when the car was not competitive. He 100% deserved the win in my opinion for this reason alone. With a competitive car Lando deserves any chance of winning a race!
I think Lando did the right thing specifically because he hasn't shown that ability to dominate purely on his own performance yet. People ask what if he loses by 7 points but he has made way more than 7 points worth of mistakes prior to this race. To blame Oscar would just be lazy.
Man, he was just being childish. They covered hamilton. Piastri had it all controlled until the pits when norris was putting on qualyfication laps while piastri was just taking it home.
No they told Oscar to push and he couldn’t catch lando that’s why the said to lando on the radio “you made you leave point he can’t catch you”
Lando was quicker than Oscar the whole weekend.
@@kolour7611 Hamilton was no where near them. They covered fresh air and ruined their own morale because they don't know how to manage a race properly.
@@Otsantos5then why did not overtake him for 50 laps?
@@kingduck88never heard this
I haven’t watched the video yet but i’ve been saying he should’ve ignored them. There’s still a chance for him to win the title and it’s not his fault he ended up ahead, it was Mclaren’s poor strategy of giving him pit priority over Oscar. If i was norris im ignoring team orders for the rest of the season, and I feel sorry for Oscar, having a first win tainted like this
Well good thing you're not Norris. You'd have a lot more enemies than friends if you did that.
Lando should have ignored the team. Nice guys don't win championships. It was a huge mistake from Noris.
The radio from McLaren should’ve been something like:
“Ok, Lando. We have a sufficient gap to Hamilton, so let Oscar pass now and then you’re free to fight. Just keep it clean and don’t hold us up too much.”
This way it gives Lando the information, Oscar the position and doesn’t demoralise Lando, as he’s allowed to utilise his pace and win on merit, it also doesn’t cause any friction between the drivers (unless they crash).
Had Lando given it back immediately, he could’ve raced Piastri but he ran out the time for such an opportunity.
Oscar is still improving and Lando is close to maxed out.
Lando got the undercut on Piastri after losing the start, switching back was the play. I can also remember a teamorder against Piastri where he didn't say anything
The emotional blackmailing was absolutely crazy
It's quite sad to see that all the champions of the past have had a toxic and/or dominant relationship with their teammates. Since Mclaren have a car that is absolutely dominant, I totally agree with Mclaren's decision just because I wish to see a wholesome and fair competition between teammates. This situation has come so close to what happened with Hamilton and Rosberg where Mclaren could easily loose Piastri if they're not careful.
Lol you convinced me i would have been like "sorry, guys, i'm winning this race" if i was norris.
for context max refused to give checo 6th place back in brazil and to carlos in his first year at torro rosso in singapore?? plz max give it back nooooo end of story! just saying
@@robbieceltic1036not once in this comment was max ever mentioned
You will need the team next races
Im glad I watched despite the clickbait title that almost turned me away. Agreed with most of your points
I think he was planning to ignore the orders except for the emotional manipulation from Will Joseph, which was extremely disappointing and unprofessional!!!
Even though what’s done is done, Norris should still set the correct expectations within the team from now on. He should give the team his “reasons” like Verstappen did back in Brazil and tell the team he will not cover for their cock-ups, by giving up race wins served on a platter.
Piastri will return the favor if shoe is on the other foot, without the spoiled rich kid antics. I guarantee it!
I’m glad he didn’t. I won $175 with Oscar winning.
Lando is a journeyman and Oscar is a champion in the making
Lando is an English Public Schoolboy. Used to have been given everything and never having to fight for it.
Piastri and the whole McLaren team will not forget about this.
When Norris doesn't switch, Piastri and the whole McLaren team will not forget about this.
Understand?
Can someone explain this to me like I’m 5. I don’t understand how the order of pitting impacts it at all- surely if the times of the pit are the same, it just evens out? And what does it mean by undercut Hamilton? I don’t get it
Then it would mess up the trust between the drivers and the whole team. Oscar deserves to win this.
I think we forget that Landos first race win was only this year. Same for Oscar.
It’s hilarious how Lando is being told to be a team player and think of the bigger picture, yet we only got to that situation because Oscar wasn’t at the start. He had a simple job: keep max in check and give Lando clean air. Lando got pole, he didn’t. And a race goes over 305km, not 400m, it’s shameful for McLaren to order Lando to stay behind because Oscar did better for 0.1% of the race, even though Lando did better for the remaining 99.9%, just held back by team orders during the first stint. The fact is, right now Lando is the number 1, in the team and McLarens best chance on a clean sweep of both championships. But he’s lacking what Lewis and max have: support from the one person on track that should have his back, like he had his. Right now, Lando has gifted Oscar 2 wins. Oscar is yet to return the favor. If Oscar isn’t playing the team game, Lando needs to stop playing it too. Take the win, close the gap in the first stint already and overtake straight away. He had the pace from lap one, he shouldn’t have held back.
The bigger picture is the driver's championship, and McLaren just ordered their #1 driver to give away points in the driver's championship race because... because why exactly? Their reasoning doesn't even make sense. They gave three different reasons, none of which should matter anywhere near as much to them as the DRIVERS CHAMPIONSHIP, the thing that all their people have been laboring hard for over a decade to try to be able to contest again. This isn't a soccer team for 10 year olds where you want to give different kids a chance to play striker, or goalkeeper, even though they may not be the best in that position. This is top-tier professional auto sports, and it's taken them many years and enormous amounts of capital investment to get a car that's the fastest on the grid, and they're ordering their drivers to take turns getting wins?
Did someone put MDMA into their tea?!! You're not supposed to do that until AFTER the race weekend is over, and preferably with at least a two week break before the next race weekend!
@@syncmonismthe only reason why McLaren did this is because they know how to fuel unneccessary drama
You need to watch the start again - Lando had a poor start then did his best to push Oscar off the track and ignored Max - hence there were 3 cars side by side in the first corner. Lando admitted he stuff it up at the start.
Lando did the right thing. McLaren were protecting a 1-2, so it made sense. In the last number of races, McLaren have made some bad decisions... you even made a video about it. They made the right call for the team. It's a team game. And Lando is going to need Oscar in future races. I think that this was all the right call, and Lando did the right thing. It'll come back to benefit him in the future.
No, he shouldn’t have. This way, he’s ensured Oscar’s loyalty should Lando require his help during the rest of this year’s campaign. The embarrassing part was airing their dirty laundry in public like that for all to see. And once again, brought on by the team’s fault-pax. There was never the need to pit Lando first in the first place.
the problem with this whole thing was the bickering. he should have just said, "look were ganna finish 1-2. I wanna fight for the championship. sorry to Oscar but this is what I am doing and thats final"
just as well maybe 6-7 races later if the championship was already decided, Norris could legit just act like a 2nd driver to the service of Oscar to pay him back. not only would he get what he wants but he would also be giving Oscar something higher in return.
That's the thing. The championship won't be decided in 6 or 7 races. Max is still Max and even for as bad as a downfall as Red Bull are having, he will still be scoring podiums I would say almost consistently, and it doesn't help that Lando can't seem to consistently win on the fastest car either. Lando might as well had let Oscar by in this race or have to fight for the championship completely by himself, no team help. He's gonna need it, I'm telling you, it's not the last time Oscar will be ahead of Norris this season.
This is the problem with people who don't think and just peddle narratives without any substance. Lando needs to outscore Max by 7 points throughout the next 11 race to win it, or Max DNF 3 times while Lando wins those. If you think Lando will win 11 in a row, or Max won't win another single race the whole rest of the year, or that Merc/Ferrari won't take points from either team (to Max's benefit) then you're high af.
There are 11 races left in the season. Lando is behind Max by 76 points. So, on average he needs to score 7 points more than Max in every race. This is the difference between finishing in P1 vs P2. So, if Lando won every race and Max finished P2, Lando would still win the championship. And with how bad Max is making the Red Bull look, it is very difficult to assume that he might finish at least P2 in every race. This eases some pressure off Lando too.
Once again. Perfect evaluation! Really happy I found your channel. You literally say exactly what I've said ebery video. Love it. And zi hadn't heard Landos statement about putting himself closer in the drivers. Which was exactly correct! Exactly what I didn't understand. Thats working as a team. The dolts. Lol.
gotta throw oscar a bone once in a while
They threw Lando a bone with that undercut pit-stop........
What Norris should've done is let Piastri back through straight away, as instructed, but then fought him back on track. Norris was faster in the last stint, and the pair were already told they could fight each other before the pitstop happened. Anyway, I'm happy Piastri won, big fan of his.
But the whole scene was definitely caused by Mclaren's strategy, once again. Norris' race engineer especially is a bit of a flake. Like in Silverstone when he offered Norris the choice of tyre at the last stop. Surely a decent race engineer could see that softs would struggle to reach the end of the race. Of course Norris would want the faster tyre, but it's up to the strategy department to predict how long they could last. They kept a brand new set of mediums for him but never even used them...
If Lando took the win, we'd be saying he was gifted it by team favouritism giving him a 2 lap undercut.
I'm not sure I agree with your take that having a strong and co-operative number 2 is overrated. If Lando has any chance of winning the title, he absolutely needs Oscar on side. The team should be having meetings this week stating that both have proven they're team players, they have the best car right now and the priority from Spa onwards should be Lando's title fight. Because if McLaren can achieve 1-2s with Lando wins (even if it's team orders) they will dig huge gaps into Max's lead, and that doesn't factor in that Max may not even finish as the best of the rest.
The team fucked up in Hungary, but Lando did the right thing. The 7 points he lost will be nothing if McLaren go on some Red Bull like streak of dominance until the end of the season. And that's not too crazy to say given they've won 2 races, but had the pace to win pretty much every race after Miami.
I'm more surprised Lando didn't play the championship narrative on the radio. I think with Max struggling at the weekend and Lando inheriting the lead, it would have made it far easier to stomach for viewers had he made that argument instead of resisting for the sake of it.
I was all in on this video being the best balanced take I’d seen on this whole mess until the final section. I agree people wouldn’t have the same questions about Lewis; Alonso or Max but to put Charles in that category with the number of mistakes he’s made is a bit wild.
Points gap is huge but with the way the top 4 are so close it’s not outwith the realms of possibility that max has more races where he’s off the podium. If Norris loses out on the WDC it’s mainly down to the shocking pitfall strategies of Canada and Silverstone. If they’d got those right then the points gap would be so much closer that I think the call on this race would have been much more difficult for McLaren to make
Leclerc really in that group with Alonso, Hamilton and Verstappen?
Yes and it’s pretty clear why…..Ferrari were the reason he lost the 2022 championship, not him
@@NewscasterNews4you can’t have a championship winning driver in the 4th fastest car (mclaren, redbull, mercedes ahead)
@@spiyder then what does that make Alonso driving the 5th fastest car on a weekly basis?
The point is that if you put either Leclerc or Alonso in the current McLaren they could compete for a championship unlike Lando…..
@@NewscasterNews4 Cap.
It wasnt just Ferrari. It was everything and everyone.
@@kyperactive it was literally Ferrari tho. Look at how many mistakes Max has made this year being under pressure with a team that’s not supporting him, is getting out developed and how he’s been shafted by poor strategy. That was literally Leclerc in 2022 - and if a 3x WDC can’t overcome those factors, I don’t know how you magically expect Charles to be able to
What was McLaren pitwall thougts to begin with I wonder.
Priority one: Lando for driver championship challenge or
Priority one: secure P2 for Lando.
40 years racing. Cant believe this.
I dunno what was initial strategy for mclaren, but i guess lando was the one who didnt follow it. if u disagree with a plan - tell that before the race and not try to prove it during it. also if he let oscar go thru faster - he could have had a lot of more laps to overtake him and prove "it" much more like seb vs webber.
7:37 Oscar is like better protect my trophy from Lando haha
McLaren gaslighting Norris was INSANE
My theory is that Mclaren were willing to weaponise or use their own "incompetence" to put lando in the position to decide whether he wanted to keep the win and fight for the wdc. If he handed the place back then they follow his decision and aim for wcc. If he disregards them then they support him in a push for wdc.
I can understand all of the reasons for Norris being forced to yield first back to Oscar.
From the idea that the swap could and should have been done IMMEDIATELY instead of left to become messy, and also the idea that you need to build trust that your teammate and team will go above and beyond to help when you need them most.
However....
Emotional blackmail and gaslighting isn't the way to do it.
Relying on your driver to undo the error in judgement that you made as a team isn't the way to do it.
Showing your drivers you have a reluctance to own the mistake and apologise to the driver affected isn't the way to do it.
Allowing the driver affected by the lapse in judgement to accept it as THEIR error and apologise, essentially on your behalf, for "making it more difficult than it needed to be" isn't the way to do it.
Seriously, what are McLaren trying to imply to the rest of the teams with this? Lando is mathematically within a shot of a WDC and they're on course to close into and take the WCC at this rate.
Either they don't back themselves to continue this trajectory, don't trust Lando to seal the deal on the championship, or are confident that Red Bull can and will improve after the Summer break...
This wasn't the right way to win for Oscar and deep down he knows that, he should have gone on the radio and said to the team to tell Lando to not give up the position that it doesn't feel right to win like this and that they will be far better opportunities to win fair and square. It would also make Oscar even more likeable and show he has true integrity.
Lando did the right thing. Yeah he could have been closer to Max if he won, but he'll have his chance. And Oscar will remember the solid that Lando did for him.
I really like Oscar he doesn't whine on the radio or act like a 5 year old telling on everything he sees 😂 like his teammate. Oscars probably more mature then the whole field and has talent. Hes going somewhere