I've had amazing success with defense stacked and withering weapons Valkyries, their ability to kill leaders is almost guaranteed with withering which you can get without your god being incarnate allowing for more bless points. That being said I had the same experience as you with the sacred mounted guys, they just can't realistically hold up against hordes, but I won't deny 22 defense horses is pretty funny. Also thank the pretender you can give your thugs horse armor, like seriously please guys put something on your horses.
Thanks, interesting overview and good advice. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I read that missiles always hit troops and never mirror images!? The reason I think this might be true, was that the posters had studied the combat log to his best ability. Mirror images are IMHO still good but not versus archer spams.
I love the strategic mobility of fliers/ with Dis once 2 provinces out (with elite Cav only in opening and main armies as rapid flankers) and get good expansion but hard to slow yourself to build forts. Spearmen used fractionally behind indi/merc arrow magnet chaff and last forever in combination with backline fliers. Dormant Titan AEG for high air fatigue reduction and hidden army movement worked nearly as well as imprisoned kitchen sink bless early game but she is better later- so as to corner item making, arrow defence and Storm etc. I would not want such weak scales or as low Dominion (need 6/7) that you use as you prevent flyer critical mass. Blesses Strength, Bloodlust (if imprisoned), blur, reinvigoration (fliers/mages) shock res, all good.
@@BabelBuilder Start Dom 7. Bless at least 2 Strength 2 Shock Res then choice of either 3rd strength, reinvig, or slumber/precision. Prophet is initial Helkari. (I used your strategy in Dom 5 but not dom 6). Start by recruiting Helhirding 2 goes and reinforce spears up to 12 they sit diagonally behind front melee chaff and get offscript buffing whenever a 2nd mage is there. BUT then total switch to Valkyrie (soon get 6/turn) and vanherse [so army becomes 7 horse 12 valk 12 spear + melee chaff no arrows but will usually hold extra valk waiting to split. So first army gets reinforcement until it splits off a mobile valk expansion. Dis when you go 3 spaces away (usually need 3 as you want all sacreds in combat every go bar 6 in capital), Another Helkari to build death chaff and a tier 2 air (vital) and dwarf for searching. The horses only in one army until you get pretender out and head for riders on the storm. Against H Cavalry - H Inf - Archer combo send my horses to charge their HC using hold attack from center rear and use valk to take out commanders. Archers drawn by chaff then killed by valk after commanders, buffed spears move up side of H Inf and roll them up in detail. Otherwise mostly just send horses/valk to wreck back/archers before they can reach ultra buffed commanders low attrition as enemy killed too quickly.
I threw an etherial + resilience of the earth bless onto the cav and they became ungodly killing machines. Between the glamour and the etheria,l they're quite unkillable by most troops. It's expensive and I had to take a dormant dom 4 immobile pretender, but the scales troops are capable of expanding well until the incarnate effects come online. It's been a pretty fun build so far.
Well anything could expand good with ethereal and resilience but thats the bless and not the cav being good, not having armor at all is way to big of a weakness for that cost
Don't understimate the power of site-searching spells. And with the Vanjarl, you are able to cast Auspex as soon as you hit Thaumaturgy 4 without the need to empower.
43:00 Think I'd do 2 Cold 2 Magic rather than 3s. I may be unreasonably scared of Horrormarks but you're also not really happy being that cold either, I think the 3rd Magic doesn't affect MR (though it may get provinces up to 2Magic faster?) Are the mounts big enough to regenerate? I'm dubious but seems like it might be worth a test
I can’t see how it would. The mounts for sacreds just don’t have any survivability outside their decent defense. Three or more heavy infantry will only need a few hits on the horse, which I think they will preferentially target due to size, and one to two rounds of regen won’t save them.
Don't waste your time trying to make the Cav work like it did in Dom 5 you will not come close. It's ironic that no one would make Valkyrie in Dom 5 because how good the Cav was, now its reversed. The cav can work with a quickness or 4x swiftness plus other stuff but still have attrition but not as bad with the standard bless. A Dis with 15 Valkyrie can take most provinces with a rainbow bless. Make sure you take storm flying in the bless. I usually do that plus 5x undying BS, EB, 2x heroism, awarenss. You can do a fear awe which works far better on the Valkyrie than the cav. Twiceborn your dwarfs to save money plus they get better map move as wright mages. You want construction to make barding for your thugs. Corpse constructs and later summon undead for chaff. I think a rainbow is the best option for this nation now due to the need for good scales and diversity. High Dom score to get as many valks per turn. I even quickly build extra temples to get to 10 dom for valks per turn. Frost father is typically the best option. This is the nation I played the most in 5 and won to MP game as them. After trying about every possible bless its my opinion the cav is not an option. Glam research item at con 5, Baor barding for thugs at con5 but either of the con 7 barding is really good for the vanjarl thugs. Finding lizard mages should be a priority as they become your most efficient researcher. I usually go luck vs magic as the gems as such a need.
I'll have to try out your bless, I was doing withering weapons, blur, storm flight, awareness, AS +1, heroism x1, SR x1, BS on a frost father w/ 6 dom 1P0O2C1Mi2Ma I believe. I wonder if the udying plus EB is just that strong a combo? I'll test it out tomorrow since the build/scales basically came out the same (I got to x3 heroism w/same scales). Does anyone know if withering weapons procs off repel dmg btw?
@@BabelBuilder Boar at con 5 then either of the 2 at con 7. Research I tend to rush Enc for skelly spam a little evo and alt then con trying to get to 7 for the best possible thug options then conj for undead and valk summons. You actually have a lot of ways to go with research.
Have you tried a Rainbow bless on this nation? Something like an imprisoned demi-lich. Get 3x defense, awareness, and 3x heroism + whatever. Valkyries start w/ 20 defense when blessed and gain xp so quick they will be lvl 3 w/ 23 defense in no time. Also a pretty solid buff to your leaders. You can also take pretty great scales with something like this which makes pumping out troops much easier.
I haven't tried that flavor, but I agree with the strat of buffing things that help the mount survive, if you want to use the cav and leaders. The new buff to fire shield is also very interesting for them too.
Man they really gutted and massacred one of my favorite nations. Helhirdings are pointless now. You can’t thug without barding and sure glamour magic is cool and you can do some neat stuff but well to get that they gutted the air access and removed the blood so can’t say that is a even trade 😢 especially since they made most national spells/corpse construct almost impossible to use without a huge investment/luck
Corpse construct are still fine as the Dis still has D1A1. Assume you get air income that is. Missing out on workable storms really hurts though. Helheim is weaker than it was in 5 for sure, but still playable. Keep in mind I do like Agartha and Ur so, your mileage may vary.
@@BabelBuilder ye it’s mainly the income that destroys the corpse constructs. Yea Dis is probably a better mage in 6. The price increases and loss of communions/paths I really doubt you can do well in MP with Helheim at this stage (without some godly charisma diplomacy 😛). Without a hellbless/awake you are a rush target with a hellbless you can’t afford stuff. I’m mostly talking about MP since that’s what I enjoy most, you can make it work “alright” in SP. The best I’ve come up with is some repel blood surge Valkyrie/decent scales build but still feels weak Well I love Agatha all ages and Uruk not really Ur tho 😆 (but my opinion is that all those nations just got better in dom 6 compared to 5).
Looking forward to hanging around with you.
Always welcome!
Looking forward to another 8 hour stream :^
I've struggled more with the test games than any of the others recently...
I've had amazing success with defense stacked and withering weapons Valkyries, their ability to kill leaders is almost guaranteed with withering which you can get without your god being incarnate allowing for more bless points. That being said I had the same experience as you with the sacred mounted guys, they just can't realistically hold up against hordes, but I won't deny 22 defense horses is pretty funny.
Also thank the pretender you can give your thugs horse armor, like seriously please guys put something on your horses.
Perhaps it it time to join the dark side and use withering weapons...great insights!
your greatest curse can become your greatest weapon LMAO@@BabelBuilder
Thanks, interesting overview and good advice.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but I read that missiles always hit troops and never mirror images!? The reason I think this might be true, was that the posters had studied the combat log to his best ability. Mirror images are IMHO still good but not versus archer spams.
Glamour troops HATE getting shot at since the end result is popped images.
I love the strategic mobility of fliers/ with Dis once 2 provinces out (with elite Cav only in opening and main armies as rapid flankers) and get good expansion but hard to slow yourself to build forts. Spearmen used fractionally behind indi/merc arrow magnet chaff and last forever in combination with backline fliers. Dormant Titan AEG for high air fatigue reduction and hidden army movement worked nearly as well as imprisoned kitchen sink bless early game but she is better later- so as to corner item making, arrow defence and Storm etc. I would not want such weak scales or as low Dominion (need 6/7) that you use as you prevent flyer critical mass. Blesses Strength, Bloodlust (if imprisoned), blur, reinvigoration (fliers/mages) shock res, all good.
What is your expansion army #s and comp for that bless?
@@BabelBuilder Start Dom 7. Bless at least 2 Strength 2 Shock Res then choice of either 3rd strength, reinvig, or slumber/precision. Prophet is initial Helkari. (I used your strategy in Dom 5 but not dom 6). Start by recruiting Helhirding 2 goes and reinforce spears up to 12 they sit diagonally behind front melee chaff and get offscript buffing whenever a 2nd mage is there. BUT then total switch to Valkyrie (soon get 6/turn) and vanherse [so army becomes 7 horse 12 valk 12 spear + melee chaff no arrows but will usually hold extra valk waiting to split. So first army gets reinforcement until it splits off a mobile valk expansion. Dis when you go 3 spaces away (usually need 3 as you want all sacreds in combat every go bar 6 in capital), Another Helkari to build death chaff and a tier 2 air (vital) and dwarf for searching. The horses only in one army until you get pretender out and head for riders on the storm. Against H Cavalry - H Inf - Archer combo send my horses to charge their HC using hold attack from center rear and use valk to take out commanders. Archers drawn by chaff then killed by valk after commanders, buffed spears move up side of H Inf and roll them up in detail. Otherwise mostly just send horses/valk to wreck back/archers before they can reach ultra buffed commanders low attrition as enemy killed too quickly.
I threw an etherial + resilience of the earth bless onto the cav and they became ungodly killing machines. Between the glamour and the etheria,l they're quite unkillable by most troops. It's expensive and I had to take a dormant dom 4 immobile pretender, but the scales troops are capable of expanding well until the incarnate effects come online. It's been a pretty fun build so far.
Ethereal is a pretty beefy buff if its not getting countered. The horses especially would appreciate it!
Well anything could expand good with ethereal and resilience but thats the bless and not the cav being good, not having armor at all is way to big of a weakness for that cost
You're the best.
Thank you. Glad you are enjoying the content!
Don't understimate the power of site-searching spells. And with the Vanjarl, you are able to cast Auspex as soon as you hit Thaumaturgy 4 without the need to empower.
Great point. I tender to undervalue the non-"rainbow" searches.
The helkarl can do Horrible visage at ench 3 and give dread they make decent thug for long fight or raiding
I prefer the bless that blind enemy and not having awareness to still have in a reasonable cost
Yeah, they are surprisingly good thugs!
43:00 Think I'd do 2 Cold 2 Magic rather than 3s. I may be unreasonably scared of Horrormarks but you're also not really happy being that cold either, I think the 3rd Magic doesn't affect MR (though it may get provinces up to 2Magic faster?)
Are the mounts big enough to regenerate? I'm dubious but seems like it might be worth a test
They should get +3hp tics from a regen bless.
@@BabelBuilder Yeah but is that enough to save them?
I can’t see how it would. The mounts for sacreds just don’t have any survivability outside their decent defense. Three or more heavy infantry will only need a few hits on the horse, which I think they will preferentially target due to size, and one to two rounds of regen won’t save them.
Don't waste your time trying to make the Cav work like it did in Dom 5 you will not come close. It's ironic that no one would make Valkyrie in Dom 5 because how good the Cav was, now its reversed. The cav can work with a quickness or 4x swiftness plus other stuff but still have attrition but not as bad with the standard bless. A Dis with 15 Valkyrie can take most provinces with a rainbow bless. Make sure you take storm flying in the bless. I usually do that plus 5x undying BS, EB, 2x heroism, awarenss. You can do a fear awe which works far better on the Valkyrie than the cav. Twiceborn your dwarfs to save money plus they get better map move as wright mages. You want construction to make barding for your thugs. Corpse constructs and later summon undead for chaff. I think a rainbow is the best option for this nation now due to the need for good scales and diversity. High Dom score to get as many valks per turn. I even quickly build extra temples to get to 10 dom for valks per turn. Frost father is typically the best option.
This is the nation I played the most in 5 and won to MP game as them. After trying about every possible bless its my opinion the cav is not an option. Glam research item at con 5, Baor barding for thugs at con5 but either of the con 7 barding is really good for the vanjarl thugs. Finding lizard mages should be a priority as they become your most efficient researcher. I usually go luck vs magic as the gems as such a need.
FYI you will get dwarves with E3 to make hammers. I'm typically building mostly dwarfs out of the cap once 2nd fort is online.
Valkyrie stocks skyrocketing!
Which barding do you prefer for thug'in these? NM missed that answer!
I'll have to try out your bless, I was doing withering weapons, blur, storm flight, awareness, AS +1, heroism x1, SR x1, BS on a frost father w/ 6 dom 1P0O2C1Mi2Ma I believe. I wonder if the udying plus EB is just that strong a combo? I'll test it out tomorrow since the build/scales basically came out the same (I got to x3 heroism w/same scales). Does anyone know if withering weapons procs off repel dmg btw?
@@BabelBuilder Boar at con 5 then either of the 2 at con 7. Research I tend to rush Enc for skelly spam a little evo and alt then con trying to get to 7 for the best possible thug options then conj for undead and valk summons. You actually have a lot of ways to go with research.
Hmm, good question. What, if anything, can proc off repels?
Withering?
Vamp weapons?
Have you tried a Rainbow bless on this nation? Something like an imprisoned demi-lich. Get 3x defense, awareness, and 3x heroism + whatever. Valkyries start w/ 20 defense when blessed and gain xp so quick they will be lvl 3 w/ 23 defense in no time. Also a pretty solid buff to your leaders. You can also take pretty great scales with something like this which makes pumping out troops much easier.
I haven't tried that flavor, but I agree with the strat of buffing things that help the mount survive, if you want to use the cav and leaders. The new buff to fire shield is also very interesting for them too.
Man they really gutted and massacred one of my favorite nations. Helhirdings are pointless now. You can’t thug without barding and sure glamour magic is cool and you can do some neat stuff but well to get that they gutted the air access and removed the blood so can’t say that is a even trade 😢 especially since they made most national spells/corpse construct almost impossible to use without a huge investment/luck
Corpse construct are still fine as the Dis still has D1A1. Assume you get air income that is. Missing out on workable storms really hurts though.
Helheim is weaker than it was in 5 for sure, but still playable. Keep in mind I do like Agartha and Ur so, your mileage may vary.
@@BabelBuilder ye it’s mainly the income that destroys the corpse constructs. Yea Dis is probably a better mage in 6. The price increases and loss of communions/paths I really doubt you can do well in MP with Helheim at this stage (without some godly charisma diplomacy 😛). Without a hellbless/awake you are a rush target with a hellbless you can’t afford stuff. I’m mostly talking about MP since that’s what I enjoy most, you can make it work “alright” in SP. The best I’ve come up with is some repel blood surge Valkyrie/decent scales build but still feels weak
Well I love Agatha all ages and Uruk not really Ur tho 😆 (but my opinion is that all those nations just got better in dom 6 compared to 5).