Good to hear you are having this experience with the e-Niro. We've had ours from new in March 2019 and it has just crossed the 100,000 km mark. I am seeing no discernible loss of range at all. The real capacity of the battery as you know is 67.5 kWh when new so it takes a while to use up the 'spare' 3.5 kWh before you see any loss of range. The 90,000 km service on ours included a battery health check. This showed that all 294 cells were able to maintain enough voltage at 100% to give 64 kWh useable. The BMS protects the cells by not allowing them to get to zero volts even were you to get to 0% on the battery. At the top end it leaves a ceiling between the voltage at 100% SOC and V max on the cells. As some cells degrade over time the BMS lifts the cell voltage towards V max on the other cells, which explains the 'spare' 3.5 kWh. I mostly charge to 80% once a week on a granny cable, I don't even have a home charger. In do charge to 100% about once every 6 weeks even if I don't need to for a long trip. In the summer after a few weeks of local driving around here in France I charge to 100% and get well over 500 km on the GOM. I hope your e-Niro continues to serve you well as the km pile up. 😊
Indeed, the calculation by the poster doesn't take into account the buffer, so we can say that the actual degredation over 35.000 km is around 6%. Now, battery degredation is not a linear process, so the degredation will not be 12% at 70.000 km, but more like 8%.
@@vgstb Your calculations don't add up. If there had been 6% or more degradation he would have experienced range loss. The buffer is 3.5 kWh which is about 5% of the total pack of 67.5 kWh. I am at 103,000 km now on my 2019 e-Niro and have experienced no loss of range on the odd occasion I charge to 100% and take note of it.
As a bit of general background, all "NMC" type lithium ion batteries (like in the niro) get significantly stressed below about 2.5 v, and nearly all devices (including laptops and mobile phones) will cut off around 2.5 to 3 v (depending on how "cautious" they are), there is very little stored energy difference between 2.5v and 3v. Most mobile phone batteries go up to 4.4v (they use some additives to make this less damaging but generally offer much fewer cycles due to their "aggressive" BMC policies on max charge voltage and charging speed), but most of the NMC batteries used in EVs up until now stop at something between 4.1v and 4.2v. Most of the wear occurs above 4.06 (in most common NMC formulations). The latest EV NMC batteries are capable of 4.4v too (newer developments has extended lifespan even up at these very high states of charge).
I'm in the UK, so forgive me using Imperial units, but I have a 2021 e-Niro. Because of the job I do, and the distance covered, I usually charge up to 100%. One of the reasons I chose the Kia was the stated range of 285 miles, yet I regularly get 316 miles (506km). I recently got an app for EVs which is compatible with my ODB reader. According to that, my battery health is still 100% - no degradation at all, even though I've done 30015 miles (48300km)
Yours is a baby too 😂 I'm currently on 113,159 Miles and my friend has 250,000 Miles as a taxi too! Your years off ours 😂 don't worry rest assured. Cheers
Can you be sure youve lost useable capacity if you weren't able to do the same test at new? Have you checked the State of Health figure? That indicates the remaining useable capacity. Still 100% on mine at 55k miles. Doesn't mean zero degradation of course, just that its in the buffers!
Same here in France from my March 2019 car. Just went over the 100,000 km mark last week, I charge mostly at home to 80% once a week. In mid summer after a week of local driving a 100% charge last year showed 540 km on the GOM. We regularly do an airport run to Bordeaux which is 375 km round trip on fast roads which the car does comfortably in summer with 70 to 80 km to spare...the same run in winter leaves it with about 30 km when we get home.
We have a 2020 Soul EV Limited, which when new would show 340KM range at 80% at 5deg.C. when new, at 100K KM it now shows 330KM at 80% 9it always does teh same trip everyday as my wife uses it to drive to and from work on the highway at 80KM/hr.. We have done about 60K KM on road trips with DC fast charging for the first 3 years, now it is just our daily runabout as our 2023 Tesla Model Y long Range AWD is our new road tripper. The only thing I had to do within the first year was replace the 12Volt battery as the Kia had a very poor quality lead acid, I replaced it with a AGM with about 30amp hours more capacity and since never had a dead battery since. The battery was cheaper than to prorated battery warranty replacement (50% cost for me) that Kia was going to offer under warranty.
We had the same 12v problem with our 2019 e-Niro. I replaced it with a 54 Ah Bosch. EVs don't require much amperage like an ICE car but they must have 12v.
I’ve had my e-Niro 2021 for only one month and loving it, it had only 5000 miles on the clock when I got it but don’t know the charging history but even if charged to 100% can’t imagine that will done too much damage over that mileage. I’m only charging to 80% with my 7kw charger and never plan to fast charge and will only charge to 100% a few times a year, so give the battery’s the best life possible. I have a question, mine is the 4+ and not worked out how to use the cruise control without the adaptive I’m sure you switched your adaptive off during the video?
Oh and you can at least check howuch rapid charging the previous owner did as the BMS records that too. Wont tell you how long its spent at 100% of course.
Great result. I also have an acquaintance who has a 2019 version with about 160000 km on it with only 4% battery degradation. So these cars clearly have good batteries. I’m happy to have been able to buy a 2022 version for a great price last year.
I nearly picked one up a couple of weeks ago. Watch out for the problems with motor noise caused by bearings failing in some e-Niro. Also check that the warranty is actually valid. I thought the car I was buying had 3 years of warranty remaining but the service history was invalid and the warranty was basically void.
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Good to hear you are having this experience with the e-Niro. We've had ours from new in March 2019 and it has just crossed the 100,000 km mark. I am seeing no discernible loss of range at all. The real capacity of the battery as you know is 67.5 kWh when new so it takes a while to use up the 'spare' 3.5 kWh before you see any loss of range. The 90,000 km service on ours included a battery health check. This showed that all 294 cells were able to maintain enough voltage at 100% to give 64 kWh useable. The BMS protects the cells by not allowing them to get to zero volts even were you to get to 0% on the battery. At the top end it leaves a ceiling between the voltage at 100% SOC and V max on the cells. As some cells degrade over time the BMS lifts the cell voltage towards V max on the other cells, which explains the 'spare' 3.5 kWh. I mostly charge to 80% once a week on a granny cable, I don't even have a home charger. In do charge to 100% about once every 6 weeks even if I don't need to for a long trip. In the summer after a few weeks of local driving around here in France I charge to 100% and get well over 500 km on the GOM. I hope your e-Niro continues to serve you well as the km pile up. 😊
Indeed, the calculation by the poster doesn't take into account the buffer, so we can say that the actual degredation over 35.000 km is around 6%. Now, battery degredation is not a linear process, so the degredation will not be 12% at 70.000 km, but more like 8%.
@@vgstb Your calculations don't add up. If there had been 6% or more degradation he would have experienced range loss. The buffer is 3.5 kWh which is about 5% of the total pack of 67.5 kWh. I am at 103,000 km now on my 2019 e-Niro and have experienced no loss of range on the odd occasion I charge to 100% and take note of it.
As a bit of general background, all "NMC" type lithium ion batteries (like in the niro) get significantly stressed below about 2.5 v, and nearly all devices (including laptops and mobile phones) will cut off around 2.5 to 3 v (depending on how "cautious" they are), there is very little stored energy difference between 2.5v and 3v. Most mobile phone batteries go up to 4.4v (they use some additives to make this less damaging but generally offer much fewer cycles due to their "aggressive" BMC policies on max charge voltage and charging speed), but most of the NMC batteries used in EVs up until now stop at something between 4.1v and 4.2v. Most of the wear occurs above 4.06 (in most common NMC formulations). The latest EV NMC batteries are capable of 4.4v too (newer developments has extended lifespan even up at these very high states of charge).
I'm in the UK, so forgive me using Imperial units, but I have a 2021 e-Niro. Because of the job I do, and the distance covered, I usually charge up to 100%. One of the reasons I chose the Kia was the stated range of 285 miles, yet I regularly get 316 miles (506km). I recently got an app for EVs which is compatible with my ODB reader. According to that, my battery health is still 100% - no degradation at all, even though I've done 30015 miles (48300km)
Yours is a baby too 😂 I'm currently on 113,159 Miles and my friend has 250,000 Miles as a taxi too! Your years off ours 😂 don't worry rest assured. Cheers
35km??? I'm on 113,000 Miles (as a taxi and a friend has one on 250,000 Miles!) Yours is a baby 😂😂😂 Cheers
Can you be sure youve lost useable capacity if you weren't able to do the same test at new? Have you checked the State of Health figure? That indicates the remaining useable capacity. Still 100% on mine at 55k miles. Doesn't mean zero degradation of course, just that its in the buffers!
No I cant that is why I say 0 to 2%. Did not check the SoH this time but last time I checked at 30k or so it was still 100%.
My last service at 70,000miles the battery was showing 100% health still but I very rarely DC charge so maybe that helps
Car from May 2019
Same here in France from my March 2019 car. Just went over the 100,000 km mark last week, I charge mostly at home to 80% once a week. In mid summer after a week of local driving a 100% charge last year showed 540 km on the GOM. We regularly do an airport run to Bordeaux which is 375 km round trip on fast roads which the car does comfortably in summer with 70 to 80 km to spare...the same run in winter leaves it with about 30 km when we get home.
Thank you, very much. This gives me the hope that my one year old Niro EV, that I rarely charge over 80% should be fine for many years to come.
One of the downsides of the eNiro is the slower than average dc charging. Maybe this attribute protects the battery better than others.
We have a 2020 Soul EV Limited, which when new would show 340KM range at 80% at 5deg.C. when new, at 100K KM it now shows 330KM at 80% 9it always does teh same trip everyday as my wife uses it to drive to and from work on the highway at 80KM/hr.. We have done about 60K KM on road trips with DC fast charging for the first 3 years, now it is just our daily runabout as our 2023 Tesla Model Y long Range AWD is our new road tripper. The only thing I had to do within the first year was replace the 12Volt battery as the Kia had a very poor quality lead acid, I replaced it with a AGM with about 30amp hours more capacity and since never had a dead battery since. The battery was cheaper than to prorated battery warranty replacement (50% cost for me) that Kia was going to offer under warranty.
We had the same 12v problem with our 2019 e-Niro. I replaced it with a 54 Ah Bosch. EVs don't require much amperage like an ICE car but they must have 12v.
I’ve had my e-Niro 2021 for only one month and loving it, it had only 5000 miles on the clock when I got it but don’t know the charging history but even if charged to 100% can’t imagine that will done too much damage over that mileage. I’m only charging to 80% with my 7kw charger and never plan to fast charge and will only charge to 100% a few times a year, so give the battery’s the best life possible. I have a question, mine is the 4+ and not worked out how to use the cruise control without the adaptive I’m sure you switched your adaptive off during the video?
Oh and you can at least check howuch rapid charging the previous owner did as the BMS records that too. Wont tell you how long its spent at 100% of course.
Nice test. I wonder if you could repeat it at 110km/h for comparison? ;)
With used prices becoming achievable in the UK this info is very useful - thank you.
Yes u can get a 3 year old 4+ model with 25k miles for £18-20k now.
Great result. I also have an acquaintance who has a 2019 version with about 160000 km on it with only 4% battery degradation. So these cars clearly have good batteries. I’m happy to have been able to buy a 2022 version for a great price last year.
I love these videos. This is the car that I'm on the hunt for. I've been looking for a few weeks at different ones.
I nearly picked one up a couple of weeks ago. Watch out for the problems with motor noise caused by bearings failing in some e-Niro. Also check that the warranty is actually valid. I thought the car I was buying had 3 years of warranty remaining but the service history was invalid and the warranty was basically void.