@@FFVoyager Unless you find evidence to the contrary, there is nothing abnormal about those number plates. Even the DVLA's own leaflets say that. Did you actually watch the video?
You're not going to 'win' a legal argument on the roadside with the police. Your best bet is to state your belief of their legality at the roadside and nothing else, then appeal the ticket/warning with the appropriate authority. This will take time, effort and possibly money, but if the appeal rules in your favour, THAT is the paperwork you keep in your glovebox as it's a specific, legal order pertaining to your exact circumstances.
Yes, I think any PA55 plate is great for a driving school car. I've also noticed others where the plate made some kind of reference to the actual name of the driving school.
the difference is, by the photo evidence, that your plates look like the numbers are pressed into the plate, but the other ones, the confiscated ones, look like a flat plate with fat letters glued to the plate.
No, this is wrong. The BS references demands that all plates are manufactured from a 'naturally' reflective material e.g. some sort of plastic. It also demand that the material has a degree of flexibility such that it returns to its original shape after deformation. The problem with 'raised' plates is that they're often manufactured from aluminium which is pressed. Aluminium meets neither of the standard's criteria, as written above. There are very specific instances when you can use an aluminium plate, though.
My first impression was the seized GTI plates looked more like novelty plates that you can get online, rather than legal plates and that they were probably chancing their luck to have something different on their car. Also, no company producing legal plates would not follow the law by putting name and post code on the bottom. the plates on the BMW are barely raised, but importantly, follow the rules concerning who made them.
@@tcl98387 Pressed alluminium plates are legal. The alluminium isnt bare metal it is relective yellow or white. No rule about being flexible exists. 3d fonts are allowed but not 12mm raised as in the ones seized.
Just get them made like they’re supposed to be (i.e per the 99% of vehicles on the road as manufactured by the OEM, as they come out of the factory) and you’ll be fine and not have to waste time “bending the rules ” and wasting police / DVLA or any other publicly funded body’s time / patience and resources. Save yourself some money too. And regarding Jepson, well you obviously bought them and must have the invoice.......go back to them and ask if they’re legal. If they’re not then have a go at them for selling you something illegal not the police .
@@naranjavalencia8228 Yes, I have to agree with that but at the same time I think it's rather petty to stop somebody over something as minor as that (I'm pretty sure their equipment would have no problem reading the plates), especially given the police claim they don't have the manpower to attend incidents such as burglaries and so on. Their priorities really are questionable sometimes.
@@naranjavalencia8228 brilliant comment! I've never understood why people try and do fancy stuff with number plates. I think anything beyond standard just looks tacky
There are separate regulations for vehicles over a certain age that still apply now. We have Fergies with black front and rear plates both with silver lettering (white lettering where it's painted on or a sticker). There's also a font difference for the first white/yellow front/back plated with black lettering up until either some point in the 90s or turn of the millennium. Those forms are illegal to put on a car from the 2000s to now (or rather from the 2 relevant dates listed for the changes), be it first time registering or re-registering. However, if you're replacing an old plate, re-registering, or registering an imported vehicle for the first time, on a vehicle that predates those changes in registration legislation, then you can use those plate styles on those vehicles (I don't know if there are any/many exceptions). The current style is legal on any vehicle you wish, but the relevant era plate style is available for anyone who wishes to keep it looking correct for the period.
One thing I noticed is that the number plate on Twitter seemed to have much more deeply raised characters than yours. Perhaps because they are so heavily raised, it messes with ANPR reading from a wide angle as you mentioned.
In which case, if folk are going to have 'raised' lettering then there needs to be a standard above which is not appropriate. My guess is the regs were written to include the use of the old stamped metal plates and not the clown lettering so fashionable now. Expect a clarification and certain plates to be deemed illegal soon.
If that's enough to fool the ANPR software, then the person that selected it is an idiot. It's going to elongate the horizontal parts of each letter slightly, but no more than if the plate was mounted at a slight angle making it more square on to the camera.
@@tin2001 some ANPR systems have trouble reading even regular plates. Have you never been to a hospital or somewhere where they've got a cheap ANPR and it never recognises your plate or gets a few characters wrong?
@@FFVoyager Not so. The government now say that raised 3D letters are perfectly legal. Where the ones in the video may be illegal now is they're not allowed to be reflective - only the background is.
From www.number1plates.com: "Are 3D Number Plates Legal? 3D gel number plates are 100% road legal. All of the specifications and options that we offer are made to British Standards (BS AU 145d) and are legal for use on UK roads. As one of the UK’s most popular 3D number plate legal suppliers, we ensure that the high quality standards are met."
@@essjayaitch so how thick can the lettering be? 1mm? 5mm? 15mm? 25mm? 50mm? Obviously at some point they would become even more ridiculous than they already are so what is the standard to conform to?
@@FFVoyager I can't see any reference to the thickness of the characters anywhere in the official guidelines. The requirements are that the plates must be reflective, with solid black letters of the correct font, and correctly spaced. I get what you are saying though and perhaps someone can enlighten us!
This hit me on a personal level. I have a private plate on my car; 3D 2mm gel plates, no background pattern, no tint, correctly spaced with the BS mark and supplier details on them. Three times in a week I got pulled by police in a force area three counties over from home. They told me my plates are illegal. Wouldn't tell me why, just gave me a clear warning that they needed to go. In the end I went to my local police station (WMP) and asked directly. 2 neighbourhood police came out, so did 2 traffic police; all three agreed, completely legal and compliant. I got my plates from a company who do not and will not ever sell any plates that don't conform to road legal standards. They won't make show plates or non legal plates at all, because there is always a chance that the user will put them on the road anyway, which as you point out happens constantly. It is frustrating because I have been extremely careful to abide by the rules, but I still got hassled for it, but I see at least 10 cars a day with tinted, illegal spaced and non conforming plates and nothing ever seems to happen to them. Maddening. Edit: I've seen some comments below who feel that these plates are flatly illegal, but luckily the DVLA has now clarified their position, stating "As long as 3D gel and 4D laser cut letters meet the requirements of the current standard, BSAU 145d, then they are legal. Furthermore, 3D gel and 4D laser cut number plates will be legal under BSAU 145e, so long as they meet the requirements of the standard and pass the mandatory tests. Seems certain members of the law enforcement community are making it up as they go along.
The reg plate only needs to be visible in their entirety. Technically there's no requirement for where that plate is on the front as long as it is entirely visible, there are buses/coaches that have the reg plates in the windscreen and behind glass on the back from factory. If it's fully visible then there's no reason they can be fined or whatever. It is possible for plates to fall off (especially when those sticker things are all that's used to hold them on) and it could be put there after being recovered.
@Ant White I gave the info I could offer at that moment. I'm not sitting watching UA-cam videos with all the legal regulations library sitting in front of me. Anyone can be wrong about something, I simply forgot about it needing to be fastened to the vehicle. I was thinking about the dealer plates that seem to be OK just sitting in the window, my mistake. Anyway, if someone really wants accurate information they should do some research off the back of any UA-cam comment on it, for this very reason. Another comment gave info that I'm assuming you are saying is the correct info, (I'm not going to check it). I don't actually agree with putting it in the window because it 'ruins the lines' despite that person's suggestions that I might see that as a 'valid excuse'. I've simply seen number plates fall off and thought it was OK if that was the reason it's not attached, providing it's not obscured by the bordering part of the windscreen or obstructing the driver's view.
The UK is the only country I've lived in where there is any variation in the construction of plates. Every other country, you either get a plate made by the issuing authority itself or else have to go to an authorised supplier who use a standard stamping machine to press onto a standard backing plate. We have the most visible plates I know of but then allow people to fool around with them to make them illegible or ambiguous (not legally but still widely practised). It's mad.
We don't really allow people to make them ambiguous in the UK, it's just that we have people who try to find loopholes, want to be different, and want to "get one up" on the authorities instead of just buying the standard...
Yes, I got a bit confused about how this could be an issue until I realized you must be able to get plates from anywhere. My native Sweden is one of those countries where you only can obtain legal plates from the Department of Transport.
All they need to do is say either fonts can be raised or not. And if they can be, by how much, as in 2mm or 4mm depth max etc. The situation is easy to resolve but I'm sure it'll take them 20 years to update any documents..
Up until the late 1980s UK registration plates were made of separate pieces of characters that were affixed to the plate and this made them easier to 'fiddle' with with regards to their spacing "LAM 801" could be made to read "LAMBO 1" if you owned a Lamborghini! recalling an article from an issue of Auto Express from around 1988. That's when new laminated registration plates were introduced so making it harder to altered them this way.
I have 3D plates on my car and South Yorkshire Police have said they're fine, they've been on for a number of years now and I've never had any problems.
Amazingly, but probably for good reason, the police don't make the law. The Cumbrian driver will be able to argue their case in court and, perhaps, set a precedent. If they lose then your lettering, if similar depth, would become illegal even in the eyes of the South Yorkshire Police (if they could be bothered to give you a tug)
A point to remember, if you have purchased a personal plate, and use illegal spacing. If, having been notified by the police to correct it, and you fail to do so. The DVLA, will take the plate off you, and issue you with a 'Q' plate. That has a bad effect on the resale value of your car.
A year or so ago I took a photo of a street near me that was due for demolition. It was a sort of historical record. When I looked at the photo I saw the rear number plate of a car in the picture was blank. I thought that was odd, so I went back to have a look. To my Mk1 eyeball, the number was as plain as day, but lo and behold my camera couldn't see it. It was just a haze. I suppose the plate was covered in some special coating to defeat the ANPR cameras, but fool anyone looking at the registration number. I'm sure that is illegal.
@@michaeljohnson-li5nn To which the car owner replies in his defence that it must have been like that when he bought the car. The police will have a hard time establishing that the car owner applied the special covering, or even knew of its existence.
@@RadioJonophone completely agree with you. Please remember though the police are asking questions so they can charge you with a crime. They have absolutely no interest in trying to prove your innocence.
Similar to how Gordon Ramsay got in the news for wrapping his numberplates in clingfilm so he could drive above the speedlimit and the cameras wouldn't be able to read his numberplate! Definitely illegal and sounds similar to whatever coating was on the numberplate you mentioned
From personal experience, none of this matters at all. You get pulled over by a zealous copper and they’ll just stand there and condescend you and tell you what they say goes and that’s that.
Hi Ash, I have recently been made aware that 'BS AU 145e' will be adjusted and finalised in March and both 3D and '4D' registration plates have been reviewed and found to be unsuitable. This can be enforced by law from September 2021 (Just a heads up for you, although I think Police will be dealing with this by way of a vehicle defect rectification notice and asking you to attend at a police station with the correct type of registration plate when fixed).
In many European countries the plates must have raised (but not glued on) 3D characters because it makes it easier to read from an angle and in certain lighting situations.
Start of December last year I played about a bit decorating my car. The week of Christmas I decided I really wanted to get a number plate with "MRY XMAS" (because of the NI 3-4 Character/Number style) and one company I went to, even though I told them it would be in my back windscreen and that my official plate still in the correct place and still visible on the car, they told me no. It would be illegal and they can only make plates with the reg my car came with. Meanwhile I'm convinced there was a custom reg sitting behind them with a non-legal font on it. Went to a different car store who made plates and they were more than happy to help, even charging a discounted rate. They trusted me, and thought it was a nice way to spread some cheer.
Almost the entire world use metal plates with embossed lettering. The UK uses printed plastic for some reason. They do look kind of nicer than metal ones, IMO, but they also seem more easy to make fakes for doing crimes. 🤷🏻♂️
@@DracoRemixer Thougn not too Long ago we had flat Ones (some no doubt still in use) with slightly different font, and for a while the quality was so poor that if you regularly washed the car in automatic wash booths with rotary brushes, the black print would eventually get scuffed off... And AFAIK they all come from one central maker, via the authority in charge.
@@nocturn791 Like many things in the US, licence plates are dealt with by the state, so multiple aspects of them vary from state to state. As of posting this (since state change their minds): 19 states and DC have flat plates. 23 states have raised lettering. 7 states have raised lettering by default, but allow flat lettering for certain ones such as vanity plates. and 1 state (Vermont) has LOWERED lettering. These are only for the standard plates. States also can issue special plates that maybe issued for those who asked for it, which may differ in whether or not it's raised, the national government issues plates for itself and for foreign digataries (I believe both of these are flat), each territory of the US issues it's own plates, and even some Indian reservations have their own, which would be too numerous to mention here.
There seems to be a bit of a 'grey area' around the regulations of 3D plates. It probably has more to do with the depth of the font rather than the 3D effect itself. As you mentioned, the amount of illegally spaced plates out there are the ones that need to be addressed, and they look totally rubbish.
The original style of number plates from the 1970s were raised letter plates that you can still buy today the problem is the law is very vague and police forces plus DVLA have all read the law wrong previously
All number plates don't have to be yellow/white with black number's. This stipulation only came into force c.1973/4 I think, this means that when my 1972 TR6 goes back on the road it will fitted with the black & silver plates with raised, not embossed, letters as per the period. It would though, be interesting to know, if these can be read by ANPR or not.
I would like to know why those people who have a tinted cover over their number plate get away with it. Whether they get spotted by the police or not when the car goes in for a MOT they should be fined there and then.
Until recently, West Yorkshire Constabulary were running plates with no supplier name, just the postcode of their vehicle garage in Wakefield. literally the only markings on the plate were the registration number itself, the bs mark, and the postcode. May still be the case, just haven't noticed for a while. The standard blank plates come with the bs stampmark already marked on them, so most of the "show plates" end up with a bs mark even when there's no intent to illegally use them on the road. My "no parking" plate/sign has a bs stampmark.
I got pulled over in Cheshire a few weeks back for my number plates, I'd bought a lazer-cut 3D/4D set like you see all over instagram, the officers told me the reason mine were illegal was due to me not having the BS mark nor the manufacturer's name/post code, which is fair enough, I was in the wrong, I wasn't aware I needed such on a number plate. They didn't comment on my lazer-cut letters and were nice about the matter just telling me to get a road-legal set of plates as without the BS mark and makers details it's classed as a show plate.
If I got pulled & told that about my plates were illegal for lack of a postcode or maker's name I'd tell em buzz off, they were made before the name & postcode were required.. Which my embossed metal plates indeed were.
@@chrishart8548 Exactly, and by enough margin I needed a replacement owing to damage, also before that. Other vehicles & borrowed/hired trailers passing through my hands (either owned or repairing for others) have caused me to both be familiar with the rules, and resent the hassle of needing to produce a V5 to get one. I remember the days when you could walk up to the counter & save a few pence getting a blank plate & sticky letters/numbers to stick on yourself for a trailer plate you'd only use once or twice. The extra bureaucracy is what ends up causing people to write numbers on a chunk of cornflakes packet for trailers they'll be using only once, or delay replacing one that's cracked.
@@misterflibble9799 Which it predictably did little to resolve. Since the large scale selling went right on, you don't need a v5 to have a number plate making machine or the supplies for it. Typical gesture politics that just made life harder for the law abiding.
Right from an MOT testers point of view, the Cumbria police was WRONG, in my job with have to check number plates on each an every test, so have to know the regulations inside out and backwards, It is totally legal to have RAISED letters and numbers on the solid yellow or white background (any vehicle registered before 01/08/1971 (i think) can have silver on black) ANPR can and does read them. As regards the BSU stamp and manufacture; that has to be there by law but is not a testable item by us MOT testers. You are allowed country of origin flags i.e union jack, ST Andrews cross, welsh dragon or other international flags, you are NOT allowed silly backgrounds, football team flags or car manufacture flags or a honycoombe background, the letters must be correctly spaced and of the required format (no italics or other such lettering.)
You have, for me, an unusual number plate system. Here, there is one supplier - the "state" agency which registers all vehicles (in my local case the provincial insurance agency, which insures all vehicles) All our plates, which can be personalized, are embossed (raised).
I have 4D plates (so obviously raised) I’ve been told my a garage that they’re illegal even though I got the plates from the dvla when I purchased the registration and it says online that it is legal.. never had a problem with police over it
I have metal backed 4d numberplates with blue acrylic behind the black letters and I asked a police officer and a DVLA officer and they both said it was ok to put on because it was A) reflective and B) was the right size and had black digits
I think your key point here is "buy from a reputable plate manufacturer", I've seen some awful custom made extremely 4D ones that I can't read at an angle.
You mention that if they're impeding the ANPR from certain angles they shouldn't be allowed, but the regs don't make any requirement for ANPR to be able to read plates. There is a stipulation that they should be 'easily distinguishable' (which would be satisfied if a human could read it) from certain distances/angles, and that they cannot be treated in such a way as to prevent "a true photographic image" being captured - if it satisfies those criteria, but the computer can't read it, thats a software issue, not your legal one! Relevant statute is here if you're interested: www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/561/contents/made (Part 11 is what I referred to above).
I got 3D gel plates on my car and haven't had issues with mine. Main thing is it shouldn't be tinted, different colour and should have the plate company on the bottom middle and stamp on the bottom right.
This is just my opinion - Why change the number plates from something you know 100% is legal to something which is a bit of a grey area? What's wrong with the standard flat lettering?
Richard Cranswick He did say his was a private number i.e one he owns NOT the one the car would come with. Never bought a car[1] so don't know if the number plates are extra, dealer registers the car etc. [1] The car I have is not really mine, it is my son's Motability car{I am just the designated driver}. I think the nearest legal definition would be leased.
Probably wasn't expecting police to have so much free time they would bother with such a trivial matter. When you next hear a copper whining about being understaffed/overworked just remember they pulled some guy over 3 times because his number plate was lumpy.
@@Cheezsoup I know that but I don't get the need to get anything other than a standard number plate style - personal or standard registration. That's all I'm saying. It's up to everyone what they do.
I haven't noticed that anyone knows why the rear plate in theUK became yellow. It apparently went back to the USA when they might have had blocks long rear end concertina crashes. An expert discovered that with one tail light and the very poor brakes, drivers didn't notice they'd caught up in time to brake. Yellow plates reduced rear enders better than other colours. Then they discovered that putting it between two tail lights reduced crashes further.
I just had a quick look at the C&U regs too, since Cumbria hinted at the plates being non-compliant under "construction requirements". No hints I can see of C&U talking about number plates (it talks about VIN plates instead).
I still see lots of greyed out plates, which I assume are illegal. I'm guessing the clever owners think this will get them off a speeding ticket, yet the police don't seem to do much about them.
Tricky one - I've seen greyed rear yellow plates but the regs just say they have to be yellow; they don't actually specify any particular shade of yellow - so potentially they are legal. It probably doesn't matter that much, ANPR systems use infra red so as long as the background is reflective and the letters/numbers are not the system will be able to read the plate anyway.
It's more paperwork, effort, and less ROI to go after plate manufacturers or cleaning up laws. Easier and more profitable to just hand out fines to people. On the topic of handing out fines to people instead of solving problems, here's a thought. If _everyone_ obeyed the speed limit and no one speeded ever, there would be no fines to hand out. Their revenue would dry out, their expensive operating costs and infrastructure would be running at a loss. It's a scenario that would be unfavourable for them.
Correct on the speeding thing... Coronavirus hit speeding fines hard as hardly anyone was driving. Speeding is also easy to determine - there's a number for the limit, there's a measurable number for the current speed a car is going. Compare, done. Whereas driving like an idiot is subjective. What I consider dumb the perpetrator may not (duh - they did it).
@@Brian3989 It's still a revenue stream lost. I wouldn't doubt for a second that the government would be unwilling to give it up. Especially the UK government.
Back when white and yellow plates replaced the previous black ones, digits and letters were almost always raised. I still have old 1970s plates about somewhere from scrapped cars of the past, with raised letters. I know over time regulations have been updated, but the obvious question is when for that particular aspect? If that cannot be quoted, then they must be legal.
I don't know if anybody else has mentioned this and I don't have time to go through all the comment, but I think it could be something to do with the retroreflection rules - go to 5:09 in the video and look at the section marked Retroreflection on the BNMA site It says that black digits cannot exceed 0.5 retroreflective units, while white/yellow background cannot exceed 150 retroreflective units. In otherwords, basically the black digits aren't supposed to be very reflective. On the video at 1:19 the raised digits are glossy and they look pretty reflective to me, and the fact that they're glossy rather than because they are raised could be why they're illegal, or at least why the Cumbria ones were considered to be, assuming of course that they were the same. I have no idea what 0.5 retroreflective units actually looks like and I'm guessing neither does anybody else, but that to me looks like the most likely contravention. Of course, the police don't always get it right. These new raised digits seem to be all the rage at the moment. I'm not a fan personally, they're harder to keep clean and probably not as durable, and there are rules about durability. Given that the rules have now been updated to BS AU 145e, I've no idea if the retro reflectivity issue and the durability rules are part of the update or if they were in there when this video was made. The new rules do now say that 3D raised letters are allowed. One other thing I noticed is it says the characters must not be removable, but I would have thought that these new raised digits are only stuck on to the reflective background and not laminated over like the usual plates are. I would imagine they can be removed relatively easily?
Cumbria police must have dealt with all the dodgy spacing and bolt placing in their area if they can move on to 3D letters and missing postcodes. Well done to them.
I'm a pedantic old git. For 3D plates to be illegal, we would need to define what is "3D"? Stick-on numbers, even if only a fraction of a millimetre thick, are 3D. So do we allow 1mm thick? 2mm? 5mm? Where does it become 3D?
If the plate makers (Autoworld in your case) put their name and post code on the plate they will be legal else they can be in trouble. Looks like Jepson make the blanks. Non legal plates will have something like GTI OWNERS where the plate makers name should be or will be left blank.
Amusing coincidence - this video popped up in my recommendations the same day I first saw what I've now found out are "4D" plates, with a red layer below the black.
I can't stand these people who mess around with the spacing in order to make it say something "clever" because they believe they are special & above the law. Those with private plates are especially prone to this. Absolute tossers.
I find the whole UK number plate system fascinating. Here in the States, the license plates are sourced and issued only by the State(or one of their agents)in which the vehicle is registered, and any outside alterations to the plate(or tag as we sometimes call them)are against the traffic laws of the issuing State. It is pretty cut and dried.
Agree with you and I live in the UK. It's an absurd free-for-all here because the chances of getting stopped and fined are remote. Yes, plates should be available from one source only so there no way they can be altered or defaced. If I remember correctly, several European countries have such a system and there's nowhere else you can get a plate from other than a government office.
I would love to see that explenation of how 8D works lol 4D is a bit of a mind bender to understand but wow 8D! Shame all these people with 4D plates have been miss-sold 3D plates eh LOL
@@Nodster If you think 4D space is mind-binding, consider that there are 1-dimensional numbers (the ones we're used to counting with), 2D complex numbers (these are used, for example, in the Mandelbrot fractal), 4D complex numbers called quaternions (often used in 3D graphics rendering), and 8D complex numbers called octonions (I don't know what practical applications they might have). I find 4D much easier to understand in the context of 3 dimensions of space plus one of time - so, a 4D spacetime.
I wish I could remember where I read it. But I have seen that it's only legal for raised digits to be on a number plate on older cars that were originally made with those types of number plates.
I recently saw some illegal (by spacing) number plates that made me chuckle then ask myself "Why?" The vehicle registration was MY60 NAO and it was spaced so that it appeared to spell "My gonad". I think that about once every two or three weeks I will see a vehicle where the spacing on a number plate and/or the choice of colour of screw will make it attempt to spell something. (I have actually been considering going for personalised plates for myself and my wife - we are both licensed radio hams and our callsigns would both have potentially been issued as valid registration numbers back when the pattern was year-letter then number then three letters, and they don't spell words. Ours would, of course, be correctly spaced.)
If you have a very old vehicle the rules will be different eg metal plate with raised numbers/letter that are like embossed and non reflective. Slightly younger cars had plastic plates with some highly raised characters
In the state of New South Wales, Australia, the plates are made for and issued by a government department. Some years back they decided to make money by issuing 'custom' plates. There is an 'order fee', and some even have yearly fees as well. There is also the annual 'motor vehicle' registration fee. Lately they've gone crazy with options, sizes, colours, backgrounds. You won't believe the possibilities, so check out the link platerange.myplates.com.au/car The stupidest I've seen on a car is black lettering on a dark red background. They are near impossible to read under normal driving conditions.
If the letters are raised as part of the moulding and pressing then there isn't an issue, from the picture of the ones the police had they look like the letters were separate and glued on not part of the plate moulding
Prior to 1980, all number plates were 3D (letters and numbers stuck on to the plate). While the manufacture of certain fonts could reasonably be out-lawed, I do not see how they could enforce a ruling that number plates that were legal at the time of manufacture are later illegal. I also find the reputable manufacturers of number plates will not illegally space the digits.
The way it works is that, with one exception which I will come to in a moment, a number plate is legal to display on a car if it was legal at the time the plate was manufactured, so existing plates on cars remain legal but new ones must comply with any new regulations applying at the time they are made. The one exception is that it remains legal to get a silver-on-black number plate made for a car which had one when first registered (i.e. registered up to the end of 1972) and has NEVER had a plate made to a newer standard fitted.
Free Protips: 1. Leaflets, websites etc are no law. An indication for that are the disclaimers that are often used. You must check the law, its creations history and the jurisprudence itself to be absolutely sure. 2. If the regulations are meant to be exhaustive, everything that isn't in it, is (in general) NOT allowed
Your “Free Protips” actually aren’t pro tips at all, for quite a few reasons: Although potentially (and possibly “technically”) correct with (1), it’s not quite accurate. If people are relying (and have genuine reason to rely) on particular sources, such as Government / industry standards websites, or leaflets produced by the Government, then this frequently suffices. That is because they are designed to tell the public about such laws or rules in a way which can be easily understood, thus such reliance makes them carry legal purpose. I’m guessing by “laws” you’re talking primarily about statutes, which creates a problem because they’re not for general public consumption, nor are they the only type of “law” around. This also makes me question why you want to bring up both creation history and jurisprudence here, because neither would be particularly useful, or provide you with any sort of absolute clarity (in fact, it would most likely further confuse the situation rather than add clarity). With (2), no. Again, not particularly clear cut. Firstly, you tell me a regulation which is meant to be “complete” (exhaustive is the technical word)? In most situations, regulations are actually non-exhaustive (incomplete) because they have to adjust for changing situations in a legal system where constantly re-writing is not a suitable alternative (if this was to be the case, the backlog would literally be decades long). Secondly, even if the the regulations are “exhaustive,” it doesn’t mean everything not written is not allowed, because this would likely be too strict (having to check down right to things such as having the correct shade of yellow). There are also circumstances where it can be easily interpreted that something falls under a particular clause which makes it compliant, or that it was something forgotten or not thought about at the time, thus reasonably should be accepted as being compliant.
@@PolishAviationStaffordshire Hey, thanks for your comment. I'm a Dutchman. So I'm commenting out of Dutch point of view and not quite accurate in my English. Nevertheless I think the 2 basic rules I mentioned are international standards. You are right that law is a living-instrument, sometimes even when it's meant to be exhaustive. But that - certainly as far as exhaustive regulations concerns - doesn't mean that you can do everything that is not expressly prohibited. In contrary. General rule of exhaustive regulation: allowed is only what is in it, everything else not. I have adjusted my initial comment to clarify this (and some other things)
EMA Motorbiker Ahh, that will explain a lot (you being Dutch), as your legal system is very different to ours here. In England & Wales (not Scotland, as they have a quasi Common/Civil Law system, and with Northern Ireland there are some slight differences), we have a Common Law legal system, as opposed to your Civil (Coded) Law legal system that you have in the Netherlands (and much of Europe). In the UK (and many Common Law jurisdictions around the world), much of our “law” comes from outside of the statute books (the Acts of Parliament that are made by our legislature). Primarily, this came from case law, but other things have been incorporated into this legal system (hence why leaflets and websites could reasonably be cited as authority, especially in circumstances like these). Further, this means our regulatory framework is frequently open-ended, specifically to allow for areas where there is currently no legal clarity, again like this situation. The best example to look at for understanding this, although neither British nor a regulation, is how the US Constitution is structured and interpreted (and the many subsequent Constitutional Law cases which add to and amend the Constitution). That is a basic way of looking at how our regulatory framework works. Things, of course, were complicated further by EU “Regulations,” which were not the same as regulations in this sense. However, in the UK, much like Directives, it was possible to extend on these, although we could not go outside the scope or change anything we didn’t particularly agree with within those regulations. The choice of wording definitely helps confuse the situation. Your exhaustive-regulatory system may be common in Civil Law jurisdictions, but in Common Law systems it is generally the opposite (implied as non-exhaustive unless specified otherwise). It’s not an international standard, but it’s definitely a common aspect of Civil Law jurisdictions. However, it is much different in Common Law jurisdictions. I hope that helps clarify anyway, and I’d be happy to explain any further aspects of our legal system if you’d like to know more!
@@PolishAviationStaffordshire I understand that the regulations about plate numbers are not case law, but "written law". So I see in this case little difference with a Civil Law System. Furthermore: British Standard BS AU 145e, released on 28 February 2018, is the definitive technical standards and characteristics regulating the production and display of number plates of all motor vehicles in the country. The standard is designed exclusively for number plate manufacturers and British Standard BS AU 145e, released on 28 February 2018, is the definitive technical standards and characteristics regulating the production and display of number plates of all motor vehicles in the country. The standard is designed exclusively for number plate manufacturers and their suppliers. So the regulation doesn't seem to be addressed to individual car owners. I have also the impression that you only can get a complete version of the regulation by paying a lot of money. It's technical, meant for a limited group, though the scope is a lot wider (all individuals). So some extra questions are to be made. In case of wrongdoing: who is guilty? Number plate manufacturer and his suppliers? The individual vehicle owner? Or both? Source www.belinus.co.uk/bs-au-145e.php
EMA Motorbiker It doesn’t matter that there is some legal document codifying the situation (such as an Act or Regulation), we’re still a common law jurisdiction, and as such, the list is likely non-exhaustive and there can be case law on the subject still. It’s a big difference between Civil and Common Law jurisdictions, and as such it’ll be hard to understand if you don’k know how common law jurisdictions work. It’s the same whatever the law is about (for instance, we have loads of cases on Murder, and we also have a couple of different acts which cover the law too. However, that doesn’t make the “acts” the only piece of law on it, and it doesn’t mean things cannot be implied or added). Also, the regulations will be available for free “if” they are to be used as a legal document (it’s a requirement to do that). In the case of wrongdoing, it would depend on whether it was a criminal or non-criminal matter firstly. Secondly, more than one person (or company) could be liable (guilty only if criminally wrong) for wrongdoing, again depending on its particular wording and subsequent law around the area
Is it the GTI OWNERS on the the plate that is infringing on the regulations , size of the font and placement ( too close to the registration letters ). I remember there being cases when dealers started advertising on plates of them being illegal for those reasons.
3d gel and 4d plates are completely legal provided they meet all the other requirements (size of digits spacing etc). In fact there DVLA approved suppliers for the digits used to make them. I doubt the DVLA would approve a manufacturer for something that isn't road legal.
I have a set of gel style plates on my vehicle, like yourself, i checked the legalities before purchasing. As usual in the UK, laws are as clear as a muck, open to various levels of interpretation.
Funny as numbers on plates use to be raised plastic with lugs on the back that were backing was punched rivited onto ally background, have several hung in the garage.
Well +1 to Cumbria police for actually dealing with people with dodgy number plates. Here in Kent I've seen plenty of vehicles with unreadable plates and even one case where a driver was almost certainly breaking the high street's 30 limit with mud-covered rear plates whilst the police, who were a short distance behind did absolutely nothing. And w.r.t. ANPR, there's a Romanian manager who works where I do. He loves our motorways; he says in places it's like driving on the unrestricted Autobahn. I'll let you make your own mind up about what he means.
Not that I see the point in them but it's an interesting question. Looking through the twitter replies it seems Cumbria have taken the stance that, as ('physical') 3d isn't specifically mentioned anywhere in the regulations, 3d plates are not tested by British Standards to see if they meet requirements, and therefore cannot comply, i.e, illegal. I've see plates like Ashley's quite often and you can barely tell without looking closely. The ones in the video did seem to be pushing the limits a bit. From an angle the raised letters would block parts of the gaps in the letters and make it less legible.
The traditional form of raised letters on plates (looking at vintage plates for example) is in a triangular cross-section. Unless you're looking at the plate from a very sharp angle, the visible outline of the font doesn't change. That's what the ANPR systems will care about. Ash's plates aren't triangular section, but do conform to that basic principle as they are embossed only slightly. The plates that Cumbria objected to had deep square sections, which only have the correct font outlines when viewed straight on, and I imagine ANPR might legitimately have difficulty with that. Thinking more broadly, the *purpose* of a number plate is to *display* the registration of the vehicle, both front and rear. Such display is a legal requirement for driving a motor vehicle on the public roads, just like tax, MOT and insurance are. Many "custom" plate designs and accessories are specifically designed to *inhibit* that display in particular contexts, and that is what makes them illegal.
Informative video Ashley cheers. I don't see any problem with your plates, but as many people have pointed out, the plates that Cumbria Police took issue with do look to be excessively pronounced. I don't mess with my plates as I think it makes you look a bit more of a target / attract more unwanted attention on the road. I do see that as a driving school car though, it makes sense. Other companies and businesses use private regs to advertise their services, or make their vehicles look more professional. Can you tell us what you think of other reg plate trends, as in tinted plates, or plates displayed in windows to make the front end of the car look cleaner. Do you think these are acceptable/legal. Cheers
Saw a car the other day which had grey'd plates....same as normal white front, yellow back with all correct characters. But with a greying over the whole plates. As if someone has placed a net curtain over them.
I think the issue with the raised letters he had, is that the plate could be altered? It looks like the kind of letters you get on your fridge for your kids. A pressed metal one like yours is different.
Not always, it depends on what style you get. Some are around £300, if they match the normal pattern, eg XX00 XXX, similar to Ashley's, or X000 XXX, for the older style. It's the ones which don't match the standard pattern which can be crazy money.
Konrad Green £300 is crazy expensive, especially when my car probably isn’t worth that in the first place. That’s also more than one week’s wages for many people on full time contract’s (excluding tax).
Konrad Green Yes, it probably is. However, considering its value would likely be quite low for the model and age of the car, it may still be a relatively expensive change if it’s required
@@PolishAviationStaffordshire not quite sure what you mean. Once you buy the plate it's a flat fee to transfer it from car to car, and I think Ashley's had it for a cars now.
There are companies from where you can buy raised letters that you can stick on top of non-raised letters on a standard number plate, which I’ve seen some people on UA-cam use. They look pretty much exactly the same as your plates, Ashley, but would be suitable for someone who is worried about getting stopped by the police - if you do get stopped, you can simply remove the letters at the roadside and most police forces will then not issue you with any fines. Just a little tip for anyone who wants this style of lettering, but is a bit weary of the police. :)
well this would be a waste of money to be honest, imagine spending money on that and then some jumped up police officer trying to dish out a fine becae your plates are "illegal" only for you to remove those letters just to be "legal" in their opinion. As nice as vanity plate are regardless of stickers or actualy plates made there really is no point to them on the roads because police lol
Eh, I'd go with the spirit of the law here. The rules are laid down to make it easy for people and cameras to read the number plates in varying conditions and from varying angles. The higher the letters are raised, the more head-on you have to be to read it. Yours are probably fine because they're readable from any angle flat characters would. The one in the tweet probably aren't, because they're not. There's a grey area inbetween, and that just how life be sometimes.
I thought the whole point of number plates was to have your own custom plate...I didn't even know you can actually modify it under a certain set of rules of course. The DVLA could've made this so much easier for themselves if it was purely just a custom in terms of lettering and numbers.
Raised digit type number plates are not compliant / legal. Essentially the digits are of a stick-on type construction. The digits of a number plate must be a permanent feature. Stick-on digits can be removed from the substrate with a blade. Normal number plates encapsulate the digit in the middle of the materials used in the construction. Reflective / Acrylic plates - Digits printed on to reflective material, wet 3mm acrylic with placed on top and bonded together - digits sandwiched in the middle. ABS / Aluminium / Clear film plates - Digits printed in reverse on clear film, then flipped over and placed on top of an ABS or aluminium substrate with wet reflective and bonded together - digits sandwiched in the middle. The British Standard (BSAU 145e) is an enforcement of the Statutory Instrument passed through parliament - The Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) Regulations 2001. All markings on a registration plate (the reg, supplier name & postcode, British Standard) must be a permanent feature of the plate construction. The only plate type with a raised digit that conforms to standard is a pressed aluminium plate. All of the major component / number plate suppliers offer raised digit plates. Its the first part of the construction before processing to a finished plate where the supplier can argue that the digit is not stick-on. For most, a panel of black material of equal size to a reflective substrate are lightly bonded together. Then, an engraving / milling machine cuts out the digits. The waste material is removed, the bonding process completed and there you have it, your finished plate. At no time was a digit stuck to the plate.... All that aside, unless your plate has italic, wrong sized, mis-spaced digits and so on, it is highly unlikely you will find yourself on the wrong side of the law.
Grey area. Technically it should be on the front of the vehicle. However as they are required to display a number plate visible from Infront of the vehicle, then in the windscreen is just about legal. Can depend on the drivers attitude to the Police that pull them over. The " oh, it fell off this morning officer " patter only works if it appears to have been attached at some time. Some strips of torn double-sided sticky tape on the plate and bumper would probably be ok. But 2 screw holes in the plate and no holes in the spotlessly clean bumper is obviously garbage
Does actually say on the gov website that number plates have to be mounted closest to the vertical point possible on a vehicle. Seen as 99% of cars do have somewhere to put it then I suppose police could still give you a ticket. Or they could just say that you should have it like an Alfa Romeo. Off to the side with a bike plate
You mention that as long as it isn't expressly outlawed within the regulations then it is legal - and I do agree. What I've been curious about is the tinted plates that I think we've all been seeing around recently. We can't deny they look cool, but I wonder whether this is something that the police will turn a blind eye too unless they have a bone to pick or you have a headlight out perhaps.
As long as they can be read they'll probably ignore it until they have a reason to stop you. Or, if they have suspicions on drugs in the vehicle for example they may stop you for the plate and then investigate further once stopped
I got stopped and told that 4D 2-tone were completely illegal, but I can’t see anything wrong with them. They are still easy to see, doesn’t read another registration. After looking at theses laws, and speaking to other officers got the same plates, in a shortened (still legal width) plates, and I will be keeping these until the law officially changes.
My original plates on my first car where 3d, lead letters on a metal plate, it was a 1976 Mini. Therefore factory fitted plates at the time, my current pressed plates are legal, and have the bs mark and theyre slightly 3d being pressed.
My pet peeve are people with black and silver number plates on new cars - but that's only because of sour grapes - I tried to get them fitted on my old land rover - which I'd repainted black and silver - only to find out that because my Landie had been registered on the 13th of Jan 1979 it was 12 days too new to be legally allowed to display black and silver plates :-)
Cool that you guys have at least some room for customizing your license plates (3D, custom numbers, EU stripe is optional). Here all plates are issued by the DMV and are all the same boring AA 111 AA format
Look good, but to much hassle to keep clean. If lettering too deep, muck could sit and alter the shape of the letters. Also they blend from the side. Originally plates were printed and/or pressed, i assume it was just a simple way of making a plate, before acrylic plates became cheaper to make.
I know this is an old video, from my knowledge the plates shown by Cumbria Police are considered 4D plates. I know someone who produced these as show plates only and not road legal ones. Another problem with 4D plates is manufactures can use two colours of acrylic to give it a colour effect, i realise this is not related to either plate but something i wanted to point out. It would be interesting to see how the DVLA ruled on this and if the owner appealled any decision and that outcome. However, your 3D plates don't actually look massively raised, and i'd bet ANPR would work the same for your plate as any standard printed one.
At least you can read PA55 SOS. But what about the dark mustard colour insread of yellow which makes the license number unreadable on some plates. That should be stopped.
I would have thought, as you got yours from a reputable supplier, they would have put a disclaimer on the order advising you if the plates supplied were not road legal....
I have been driving for about 3 years now and have had 4D plates on both my cars and never had any issues. they have the bs markings as well as the manufacturer's details and are properly spaced and are on a reflective backing e.c.t. (the plates you were tagged in did not have the manufacturers details so I'm assuming this was the issue but no idea why the post by the police stated that "3d" plates are illegal) my current plates are 3 layers of acrylic so much more raised than the ones on the police post on twitter.
3D number plates add a extra 100hp
Absolute rubbish..I got160.22.0bhp...
If you want it faster paint it red; red makes it go faster.
John Bower also add stripes, racing stripes make it more aerodynamic
Apparently they're changing the law so they won't be
I got lightweight number plates so I can corner better.
It's probably worth keeping a copy of that leaflet in your glovebox for when you get pulled over.
Or just fit normal numberplates?
@@FFVoyager Unless you find evidence to the contrary, there is nothing abnormal about those number plates. Even the DVLA's own leaflets say that. Did you actually watch the video?
@@FFVoyager Who want's to be normal??
You're not going to 'win' a legal argument on the roadside with the police. Your best bet is to state your belief of their legality at the roadside and nothing else, then appeal the ticket/warning with the appropriate authority. This will take time, effort and possibly money, but if the appeal rules in your favour, THAT is the paperwork you keep in your glovebox as it's a specific, legal order pertaining to your exact circumstances.
@@Harrod200 Very true
All things aside, those are some cracking plates for an instructor
Never mind the plates, what about the car!
@@szymongorczynski7621 ... and with "Jason Stratham" in it!
Lol, you added the word "Cracking" I see you
Yes, I think any PA55 plate is great for a driving school car. I've also noticed others where the plate made some kind of reference to the actual name of the driving school.
Yes I agree, but who’s soul are we saving the learners or the rest of us?
the difference is, by the photo evidence, that your plates look like the numbers are pressed into the plate, but the other ones, the confiscated ones, look like a flat plate with fat letters glued to the plate.
I agree. That is the point i was going to make. The plates the police took the lettering sticks out so far.
No, this is wrong. The BS references demands that all plates are manufactured from a 'naturally' reflective material e.g. some sort of plastic. It also demand that the material has a degree of flexibility such that it returns to its original shape after deformation. The problem with 'raised' plates is that they're often manufactured from aluminium which is pressed. Aluminium meets neither of the standard's criteria, as written above. There are very specific instances when you can use an aluminium plate, though.
My first impression was the seized GTI plates looked more like novelty plates that you can get online, rather than legal plates and that they were probably chancing their luck to have something different on their car. Also, no company producing legal plates would not follow the law by putting name and post code on the bottom. the plates on the BMW are barely raised, but importantly, follow the rules concerning who made them.
@@tcl98387 Pressed alluminium plates are legal. The alluminium isnt bare metal it is relective yellow or white. No rule about being flexible exists. 3d fonts are allowed but not 12mm raised as in the ones seized.
@@eastwood978 read the British Standard document I referenced... That's what the law uses. It says exactly what I've written.
It's very frustrating that the law, for something that you must display on a vehicle, is so vague.
Hate to break it to you, but that's every law. That's why we have a judiciary.
Just get them made like they’re supposed to be (i.e per the 99% of vehicles on the road as manufactured by the OEM, as they come out of the factory) and you’ll be fine and not have to waste time “bending the rules ” and wasting police / DVLA or any other publicly funded body’s time / patience and resources. Save yourself some money too. And regarding Jepson, well you obviously bought them and must have the invoice.......go back to them and ask if they’re legal. If they’re not then have a go at them for selling you something illegal not the police .
Once you start looking into literally any law, you will always find this to be the case.
@@naranjavalencia8228 Yes, I have to agree with that but at the same time I think it's rather petty to stop somebody over something as minor as that (I'm pretty sure their equipment would have no problem reading the plates), especially given the police claim they don't have the manpower to attend incidents such as burglaries and so on. Their priorities really are questionable sometimes.
@@naranjavalencia8228 brilliant comment! I've never understood why people try and do fancy stuff with number plates. I think anything beyond standard just looks tacky
My first cars (made in the 70's) had raised numbers. They were bits of plastic attached to a metal backing.
My guess is that is what the regulations are deemed to allow.
My 1971 Mgb has metal plates with raised numbers and letters pressed into them. They are legal. Plastic numbers didn't exist back then.
There are separate regulations for vehicles over a certain age that still apply now. We have Fergies with black front and rear plates both with silver lettering (white lettering where it's painted on or a sticker). There's also a font difference for the first white/yellow front/back plated with black lettering up until either some point in the 90s or turn of the millennium. Those forms are illegal to put on a car from the 2000s to now (or rather from the 2 relevant dates listed for the changes), be it first time registering or re-registering. However, if you're replacing an old plate, re-registering, or registering an imported vehicle for the first time, on a vehicle that predates those changes in registration legislation, then you can use those plate styles on those vehicles (I don't know if there are any/many exceptions). The current style is legal on any vehicle you wish, but the relevant era plate style is available for anyone who wishes to keep it looking correct for the period.
One thing I noticed is that the number plate on Twitter seemed to have much more deeply raised characters than yours. Perhaps because they are so heavily raised, it messes with ANPR reading from a wide angle as you mentioned.
In which case, if folk are going to have 'raised' lettering then there needs to be a standard above which is not appropriate.
My guess is the regs were written to include the use of the old stamped metal plates and not the clown lettering so fashionable now. Expect a clarification and certain plates to be deemed illegal soon.
If that's enough to fool the ANPR software, then the person that selected it is an idiot. It's going to elongate the horizontal parts of each letter slightly, but no more than if the plate was mounted at a slight angle making it more square on to the camera.
@@tin2001 some ANPR systems have trouble reading even regular plates. Have you never been to a hospital or somewhere where they've got a cheap ANPR and it never recognises your plate or gets a few characters wrong?
@@Ultima2876 More pertinently, people getting parking notices from such places even though they've never been there, exactly for the reason you gave.
@@FFVoyager Not so. The government now say that raised 3D letters are perfectly legal. Where the ones in the video may be illegal now is they're not allowed to be reflective - only the background is.
Number plates used to have raised characters back in the day, so I would assume that old cars that have those plates are still legal
From www.number1plates.com: "Are 3D Number Plates Legal?
3D gel number plates are 100% road legal. All of the specifications and options that we offer are made to British Standards (BS AU 145d) and are legal for use on UK roads. As one of the UK’s most popular 3D number plate legal suppliers, we ensure that the high quality standards are met."
@@essjayaitch so how thick can the lettering be? 1mm? 5mm? 15mm? 25mm? 50mm? Obviously at some point they would become even more ridiculous than they already are so what is the standard to conform to?
Yes many 80’s and earlier classic cars still have raised plates for the period look!
@@FFVoyager I can't see any reference to the thickness of the characters anywhere in the official guidelines. The requirements are that the plates must be reflective, with solid black letters of the correct font, and correctly spaced. I get what you are saying though and perhaps someone can enlighten us!
Originally, they where lettering stamped into steel steel sheets. Stamping could only be of a limited depth before the steel sheet became torn
This hit me on a personal level. I have a private plate on my car; 3D 2mm gel plates, no background pattern, no tint, correctly spaced with the BS mark and supplier details on them. Three times in a week I got pulled by police in a force area three counties over from home. They told me my plates are illegal. Wouldn't tell me why, just gave me a clear warning that they needed to go. In the end I went to my local police station (WMP) and asked directly. 2 neighbourhood police came out, so did 2 traffic police; all three agreed, completely legal and compliant.
I got my plates from a company who do not and will not ever sell any plates that don't conform to road legal standards. They won't make show plates or non legal plates at all, because there is always a chance that the user will put them on the road anyway, which as you point out happens constantly. It is frustrating because I have been extremely careful to abide by the rules, but I still got hassled for it, but I see at least 10 cars a day with tinted, illegal spaced and non conforming plates and nothing ever seems to happen to them. Maddening.
Edit: I've seen some comments below who feel that these plates are flatly illegal, but luckily the DVLA has now clarified their position, stating "As long as 3D gel and 4D laser cut letters meet the requirements of the current standard, BSAU 145d, then they are legal. Furthermore, 3D gel and 4D laser cut number plates will be legal under BSAU 145e, so long as they meet the requirements of the standard and pass the mandatory tests. Seems certain members of the law enforcement community are making it up as they go along.
id just like to know how/why people seem to get away with putting number plate in the front windscreen.
The reg plate only needs to be visible in their entirety. Technically there's no requirement for where that plate is on the front as long as it is entirely visible, there are buses/coaches that have the reg plates in the windscreen and behind glass on the back from factory. If it's fully visible then there's no reason they can be fined or whatever. It is possible for plates to fall off (especially when those sticker things are all that's used to hold them on) and it could be put there after being recovered.
@Ant White I gave the info I could offer at that moment. I'm not sitting watching UA-cam videos with all the legal regulations library sitting in front of me. Anyone can be wrong about something, I simply forgot about it needing to be fastened to the vehicle. I was thinking about the dealer plates that seem to be OK just sitting in the window, my mistake. Anyway, if someone really wants accurate information they should do some research off the back of any UA-cam comment on it, for this very reason. Another comment gave info that I'm assuming you are saying is the correct info, (I'm not going to check it). I don't actually agree with putting it in the window because it 'ruins the lines' despite that person's suggestions that I might see that as a 'valid excuse'. I've simply seen number plates fall off and thought it was OK if that was the reason it's not attached, providing it's not obscured by the bordering part of the windscreen or obstructing the driver's view.
How do you know they get away with it?
For our overstretched (their words, not mine) police forces, it's hardly the crime of the century is it?
@@markwright3161 The plate has to be vertical, which they rarely are in a windscreen.
The UK is the only country I've lived in where there is any variation in the construction of plates. Every other country, you either get a plate made by the issuing authority itself or else have to go to an authorised supplier who use a standard stamping machine to press onto a standard backing plate. We have the most visible plates I know of but then allow people to fool around with them to make them illegible or ambiguous (not legally but still widely practised). It's mad.
We don't really allow people to make them ambiguous in the UK, it's just that we have people who try to find loopholes, want to be different, and want to "get one up" on the authorities instead of just buying the standard...
Yes, I got a bit confused about how this could be an issue until I realized you must be able to get plates from anywhere.
My native Sweden is one of those countries where you only can obtain legal plates from the Department of Transport.
@@SirIdot realised*
@@jfluffydog2110 I tend to spell things the American way because of reasons.
@@jfluffydog2110 "realized" is a perfectly valid spelling in the UK, as are most other words that we often use an S for instead of a Z.
All they need to do is say either fonts can be raised or not. And if they can be, by how much, as in 2mm or 4mm depth max etc. The situation is easy to resolve but I'm sure it'll take them 20 years to update any documents..
Up until the late 1980s UK registration plates were made of separate pieces of characters that were affixed to the plate and this made them easier to 'fiddle' with with regards to their spacing "LAM 801" could be made to read "LAMBO 1" if you owned a Lamborghini! recalling an article from an issue of Auto Express from around 1988. That's when new laminated registration plates were introduced so making it harder to altered them this way.
The main reason for the changes now are so that ANPR camera systems can read the plates.
I have 3D plates on my car and South Yorkshire Police have said they're fine, they've been on for a number of years now and I've never had any problems.
Amazingly, but probably for good reason, the police don't make the law. The Cumbrian driver will be able to argue their case in court and, perhaps, set a precedent. If they lose then your lettering, if similar depth, would become illegal even in the eyes of the South Yorkshire Police (if they could be bothered to give you a tug)
My question is are yours like Ashleys or like the ones the police took? in my opinion there is a huge difference in the depth of how 3D they are
BeFaLcon 94 Search up 4D plates mine are block letters that are 6mm thick
A point to remember, if you have purchased a personal plate, and use illegal spacing. If, having been notified by the police to correct it, and you fail to do so. The DVLA, will take the plate off you, and issue you with a 'Q' plate. That has a bad effect on the resale value of your car.
Im a car mechanic and i learned a thing or two from this video. thank you very much Ashley. :)
A year or so ago I took a photo of a street near me that was due for demolition. It was a sort of historical record. When I looked at the photo I saw the rear number plate of a car in the picture was blank. I thought that was odd, so I went back to have a look. To my Mk1 eyeball, the number was as plain as day, but lo and behold my camera couldn't see it. It was just a haze.
I suppose the plate was covered in some special coating to defeat the ANPR cameras, but fool anyone looking at the registration number. I'm sure that is illegal.
It is, and there are lots even just when I walk to do the school run I see many.
The police will say that the owner of the vehicle is trying to pervert the course of justice by having plates which cannot be seen by a camera.
@@michaeljohnson-li5nn To which the car owner replies in his defence that it must have been like that when he bought the car. The police will have a hard time establishing that the car owner applied the special covering, or even knew of its existence.
@@RadioJonophone completely agree with you. Please remember though the police are asking questions so they can charge you with a crime. They have absolutely no interest in trying to prove your innocence.
Similar to how Gordon Ramsay got in the news for wrapping his numberplates in clingfilm so he could drive above the speedlimit and the cameras wouldn't be able to read his numberplate! Definitely illegal and sounds similar to whatever coating was on the numberplate you mentioned
From personal experience, none of this matters at all. You get pulled over by a zealous copper and they’ll just stand there and condescend you and tell you what they say goes and that’s that.
Hate Crime
Thought Crime
Just Plain Disagreeing.
Hi Ash, I have recently been made aware that 'BS AU 145e' will be adjusted and finalised in March and both 3D and '4D' registration plates have been reviewed and found to be unsuitable. This can be enforced by law from September 2021 (Just a heads up for you, although I think Police will be dealing with this by way of a vehicle defect rectification notice and asking you to attend at a police station with the correct type of registration plate when fixed).
Im that old i remeber the tin plates with raisd plastic letters a numbers 🤣
In many European countries the plates must have raised (but not glued on) 3D characters because it makes it easier to read from an angle and in certain lighting situations.
Also if they are covered in mud / dust, the raised digits are still visible. Whereas a standard plastic UK plate is unreadable when dirty.
Start of December last year I played about a bit decorating my car.
The week of Christmas I decided I really wanted to get a number plate with "MRY XMAS" (because of the NI 3-4 Character/Number style) and one company I went to, even though I told them it would be in my back windscreen and that my official plate still in the correct place and still visible on the car, they told me no. It would be illegal and they can only make plates with the reg my car came with.
Meanwhile I'm convinced there was a custom reg sitting behind them with a non-legal font on it.
Went to a different car store who made plates and they were more than happy to help, even charging a discounted rate. They trusted me, and thought it was a nice way to spread some cheer.
If you are concerned just use normal flat plates, simple .
They look infinitely better too than the dreadfully cheesy 3D/4D/gel jobbies.
I never knew that about the UK. Here in New Zealand ALL plate number's the letters and numbers are rised.
Same in the Netherlands. I didn't understand the problem therfor. I though maybe it was textured in some special way.
Same in Sweden as well.
Almost the entire world use metal plates with embossed lettering. The UK uses printed plastic for some reason.
They do look kind of nicer than metal ones, IMO, but they also seem more easy to make fakes for doing crimes. 🤷🏻♂️
@@DracoRemixer Thougn not too Long ago we had flat Ones (some no doubt still in use) with slightly different font, and for a while the quality was so poor that if you regularly washed the car in automatic wash booths with rotary brushes, the black print would eventually get scuffed off...
And AFAIK they all come from one central maker, via the authority in charge.
@@nocturn791 Like many things in the US, licence plates are dealt with by the state, so multiple aspects of them vary from state to state.
As of posting this (since state change their minds):
19 states and DC have flat plates.
23 states have raised lettering.
7 states have raised lettering by default, but allow flat lettering for certain ones such as vanity plates.
and 1 state (Vermont) has LOWERED lettering.
These are only for the standard plates. States also can issue special plates that maybe issued for those who asked for it, which may differ in whether or not it's raised, the national government issues plates for itself and for foreign digataries (I believe both of these are flat), each territory of the US issues it's own plates, and even some Indian reservations have their own, which would be too numerous to mention here.
There seems to be a bit of a 'grey area' around the regulations of 3D plates. It probably has more to do with the depth of the font rather than the 3D effect itself. As you mentioned, the amount of illegally spaced plates out there are the ones that need to be addressed, and they look totally rubbish.
The original style of number plates from the 1970s were raised letter plates that you can still buy today
the problem is the law is very vague and police forces plus DVLA have all read the law wrong previously
If anyone is unsure, ANPR stands for Automatic Number Plate Recognition
All number plates don't have to be yellow/white with black number's. This stipulation only came into force c.1973/4 I think, this means that when my 1972 TR6 goes back on the road it will fitted with the black & silver plates with raised, not embossed, letters as per the period. It would though, be interesting to know, if these can be read by ANPR or not.
I would like to know why those people who have a tinted cover over their number plate get away with it. Whether they get spotted by the police or not when the car goes in for a MOT they should be fined there and then.
To be fair, looking at the photo, those plates look like they are raised at least 10mm so that is probably the issue.
Looks like 6 or 7mm to me... Which makes sense if they went imperial - 1/4 inch is 6.35mm. Nice smooth value to list on your advertising.
I think the boys in blue are more bothered by illegal spacing and like the old days when people used number plate screw caps to change letters...
Until recently, West Yorkshire Constabulary were running plates with no supplier name, just the postcode of their vehicle garage in Wakefield. literally the only markings on the plate were the registration number itself, the bs mark, and the postcode. May still be the case, just haven't noticed for a while.
The standard blank plates come with the bs stampmark already marked on them, so most of the "show plates" end up with a bs mark even when there's no intent to illegally use them on the road. My "no parking" plate/sign has a bs stampmark.
Do police need to? Last time I looked (thames valley police) didn't have any markings on plate. Good way to tell if it's under cover. Lol
I got pulled over in Cheshire a few weeks back for my number plates, I'd bought a lazer-cut 3D/4D set like you see all over instagram, the officers told me the reason mine were illegal was due to me not having the BS mark nor the manufacturer's name/post code, which is fair enough, I was in the wrong, I wasn't aware I needed such on a number plate. They didn't comment on my lazer-cut letters and were nice about the matter just telling me to get a road-legal set of plates as without the BS mark and makers details it's classed as a show plate.
If I got pulled & told that about my plates were illegal for lack of a postcode or maker's name I'd tell em buzz off, they were made before the name & postcode were required.. Which my embossed metal plates indeed were.
@@beardyface8492 that's ok if it's on a vehicle registered before 2001 otherwise it needs those markings or it's illegal.
@@chrishart8548 Exactly, and by enough margin I needed a replacement owing to damage, also before that.
Other vehicles & borrowed/hired trailers passing through my hands (either owned or repairing for others) have caused me to both be familiar with the rules, and resent the hassle of needing to produce a V5 to get one. I remember the days when you could walk up to the counter & save a few pence getting a blank plate & sticky letters/numbers to stick on yourself for a trailer plate you'd only use once or twice.
The extra bureaucracy is what ends up causing people to write numbers on a chunk of cornflakes packet for trailers they'll be using only once, or delay replacing one that's cracked.
@@beardyface8492 True, but the "bureaucracy" was added to try to make life more difficult for people selling stolen cars on false plates.
@@misterflibble9799 Which it predictably did little to resolve. Since the large scale selling went right on, you don't need a v5 to have a number plate making machine or the supplies for it. Typical gesture politics that just made life harder for the law abiding.
Right from an MOT testers point of view, the Cumbria police was WRONG, in my job with have to check number plates on each an every test, so have to know the regulations inside out and backwards, It is totally legal to have RAISED letters and numbers on the solid yellow or white background (any vehicle registered before 01/08/1971 (i think) can have silver on black) ANPR can and does read them. As regards the BSU stamp and manufacture; that has to be there by law but is not a testable item by us MOT testers. You are allowed country of origin flags i.e union jack, ST Andrews cross, welsh dragon or other international flags, you are NOT allowed silly backgrounds, football team flags or car manufacture flags or a honycoombe background, the letters must be correctly spaced and of the required format (no italics or other such lettering.)
You have, for me, an unusual number plate system. Here, there is one supplier - the "state" agency which registers all vehicles (in my local case the provincial insurance agency, which insures all vehicles) All our plates, which can be personalized, are embossed (raised).
The number plates here stay with the car and never change unless you pay money for a personalised number. +
@@davidhall7811 Unless you are a criminal and swap them of course.:)
I have 4D plates (so obviously raised) I’ve been told my a garage that they’re illegal even though I got the plates from the dvla when I purchased the registration and it says online that it is legal.. never had a problem with police over it
Spoke to a copper. They said they wont pull people over unless anpr struggles to read the plate. Happy travels
All number plates used to be raised years ago.
Going back to the 70s plates with raised numbers were very common, just a plate with numbers attached.
I have metal backed 4d numberplates with blue acrylic behind the black letters and I asked a police officer and a DVLA officer and they both said it was ok to put on because it was A) reflective and B) was the right size and had black digits
I think your key point here is "buy from a reputable plate manufacturer", I've seen some awful custom made extremely 4D ones that I can't read at an angle.
JDM plates even come with a certificate too carry with you
Many classic cars and motorcycles use period correct metal plates and they all have raised lettering and are legal.
I think that is the reason they state '3D' in the legislation. Not for clown lettering. I expect the law to be clarified soon.
You mention that if they're impeding the ANPR from certain angles they shouldn't be allowed, but the regs don't make any requirement for ANPR to be able to read plates. There is a stipulation that they should be 'easily distinguishable' (which would be satisfied if a human could read it) from certain distances/angles, and that they cannot be treated in such a way as to prevent "a true photographic image" being captured - if it satisfies those criteria, but the computer can't read it, thats a software issue, not your legal one! Relevant statute is here if you're interested: www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/561/contents/made (Part 11 is what I referred to above).
Exactly. If the CV can't read a perfectly legible plate, rework the algorithm until it does 😁
I got 3D gel plates on my car and haven't had issues with mine. Main thing is it shouldn't be tinted, different colour and should have the plate company on the bottom middle and stamp on the bottom right.
If you buy the shorter version number plate then it doesn’t come with the company name so I think it’s still legal
This is just my opinion - Why change the number plates from something you know 100% is legal to something which is a bit of a grey area? What's wrong with the standard flat lettering?
Richard Cranswick
He did say his was a private number i.e one he owns NOT the one the car would come with.
Never bought a car[1] so don't know if the number plates are extra, dealer registers the car etc.
[1] The car I have is not really mine, it is my son's Motability car{I am just the designated driver}.
I think the nearest legal definition would be leased.
Probably wasn't expecting police to have so much free time they would bother with such a trivial matter. When you next hear a copper whining about being understaffed/overworked just remember they pulled some guy over 3 times because his number plate was lumpy.
@@Cheezsoup I know that but I don't get the need to get anything other than a standard number plate style - personal or standard registration. That's all I'm saying. It's up to everyone what they do.
I agree, why bother with the faff? Just have a plate that you know for definite is legal.
@@RichardCranswick
True. I myself wouldn't go for that but then I am not trying to 'stand out' ,(perhps he treats it like advertising).
I haven't noticed that anyone knows why the rear plate in theUK became yellow.
It apparently went back to the USA when they might have had blocks long rear end concertina crashes. An expert discovered that with one tail light and the very poor brakes, drivers didn't notice they'd caught up in time to brake.
Yellow plates reduced rear enders better than other colours. Then they discovered that putting it between two tail lights reduced crashes further.
I just had a quick look at the C&U regs too, since Cumbria hinted at the plates being non-compliant under "construction requirements". No hints I can see of C&U talking about number plates (it talks about VIN plates instead).
I still see lots of greyed out plates, which I assume are illegal. I'm guessing the clever owners think this will get them off a speeding ticket, yet the police don't seem to do much about them.
Tricky one - I've seen greyed rear yellow plates but the regs just say they have to be yellow; they don't actually specify any particular shade of yellow - so potentially they are legal. It probably doesn't matter that much, ANPR systems use infra red so as long as the background is reflective and the letters/numbers are not the system will be able to read the plate anyway.
I think that the raised letters/numbers just make the plate harder to read from a 45 degree angle.
Above a small raise they certainly do. I expect the clown plates to be deemed illegal soon enough.
It's more paperwork, effort, and less ROI to go after plate manufacturers or cleaning up laws. Easier and more profitable to just hand out fines to people.
On the topic of handing out fines to people instead of solving problems, here's a thought. If _everyone_ obeyed the speed limit and no one speeded ever, there would be no fines to hand out. Their revenue would dry out, their expensive operating costs and infrastructure would be running at a loss. It's a scenario that would be unfavourable for them.
Correct on the speeding thing... Coronavirus hit speeding fines hard as hardly anyone was driving.
Speeding is also easy to determine - there's a number for the limit, there's a measurable number for the current speed a car is going. Compare, done. Whereas driving like an idiot is subjective. What I consider dumb the perpetrator may not (duh - they did it).
The police authority do not get money from speeding fines, it goes to the government.
@@Brian3989 It's still a revenue stream lost. I wouldn't doubt for a second that the government would be unwilling to give it up. Especially the UK government.
@@heminder But many people think that the police directly collect the money.
Back when white and yellow plates replaced the previous black ones, digits and letters were almost always raised.
I still have old 1970s plates about somewhere from scrapped cars of the past, with raised letters.
I know over time regulations have been updated, but the obvious question is when for that particular aspect?
If that cannot be quoted, then they must be legal.
I don't know if anybody else has mentioned this and I don't have time to go through all the comment, but I think it could be something to do with the retroreflection rules - go to 5:09 in the video and look at the section marked Retroreflection on the BNMA site
It says that black digits cannot exceed 0.5 retroreflective units, while white/yellow background cannot exceed 150 retroreflective units. In otherwords, basically the black digits aren't supposed to be very reflective.
On the video at 1:19 the raised digits are glossy and they look pretty reflective to me, and the fact that they're glossy rather than because they are raised could be why they're illegal, or at least why the Cumbria ones were considered to be, assuming of course that they were the same.
I have no idea what 0.5 retroreflective units actually looks like and I'm guessing neither does anybody else, but that to me looks like the most likely contravention. Of course, the police don't always get it right.
These new raised digits seem to be all the rage at the moment. I'm not a fan personally, they're harder to keep clean and probably not as durable, and there are rules about durability. Given that the rules have now been updated to BS AU 145e, I've no idea if the retro reflectivity issue and the durability rules are part of the update or if they were in there when this video was made.
The new rules do now say that 3D raised letters are allowed. One other thing I noticed is it says the characters must not be removable, but I would have thought that these new raised digits are only stuck on to the reflective background and not laminated over like the usual plates are. I would imagine they can be removed relatively easily?
Cumbria police must have dealt with all the dodgy spacing and bolt placing in their area if they can move on to 3D letters and missing postcodes. Well done to them.
Perhaps it was part of the same tug?
@@FFVoyager they saw it outside the kfc when tapping their FREE food.
I'm a pedantic old git. For 3D plates to be illegal, we would need to define what is "3D"? Stick-on numbers, even if only a fraction of a millimetre thick, are 3D. So do we allow 1mm thick? 2mm? 5mm? Where does it become 3D?
I'd say "3D" means 3D instead of something that "looks 3D" 😂 i don't think you're a pedantic git, i think you're right!
If the plate makers (Autoworld in your case) put their name and post code on the plate they will be legal else they can be in trouble. Looks like Jepson make the blanks. Non legal plates will have something like GTI OWNERS where the plate makers name should be or will be left blank.
Amusing coincidence - this video popped up in my recommendations the same day I first saw what I've now found out are "4D" plates, with a red layer below the black.
I can't stand these people who mess around with the spacing in order to make it say something "clever" because they believe they are special & above the law. Those with private plates are especially prone to this. Absolute tossers.
I find the whole UK number plate system fascinating. Here in the States, the license plates are sourced and issued only by the State(or one of their agents)in which the vehicle is registered, and any outside alterations to the plate(or tag as we sometimes call them)are against the traffic laws of the issuing State. It is pretty cut and dried.
Agree with you and I live in the UK. It's an absurd free-for-all here because the chances of getting stopped and fined are remote.
Yes, plates should be available from one source only so there no way they can be altered or defaced. If I remember correctly, several European countries have such a system and there's nowhere else you can get a plate from other than a government office.
Guys jokes on you I have 8D plates
I would love to see that explenation of how 8D works lol
4D is a bit of a mind bender to understand but wow 8D!
Shame all these people with 4D plates have been miss-sold 3D plates eh LOL
@@Nodster If you think 4D space is mind-binding, consider that there are 1-dimensional numbers (the ones we're used to counting with), 2D complex numbers (these are used, for example, in the Mandelbrot fractal), 4D complex numbers called quaternions (often used in 3D graphics rendering), and 8D complex numbers called octonions (I don't know what practical applications they might have).
I find 4D much easier to understand in the context of 3 dimensions of space plus one of time - so, a 4D spacetime.
I wish I could remember where I read it. But I have seen that it's only legal for raised digits to be on a number plate on older cars that were originally made with those types of number plates.
I recently saw some illegal (by spacing) number plates that made me chuckle then ask myself "Why?" The vehicle registration was MY60 NAO and it was spaced so that it appeared to spell "My gonad". I think that about once every two or three weeks I will see a vehicle where the spacing on a number plate and/or the choice of colour of screw will make it attempt to spell something. (I have actually been considering going for personalised plates for myself and my wife - we are both licensed radio hams and our callsigns would both have potentially been issued as valid registration numbers back when the pattern was year-letter then number then three letters, and they don't spell words. Ours would, of course, be correctly spaced.)
If you have a very old vehicle the rules will be different eg metal plate with raised numbers/letter that are like embossed and non reflective.
Slightly younger cars had plastic plates with some highly raised characters
In the state of New South Wales, Australia, the plates are made for and issued by a government department. Some years back they decided to make money by issuing 'custom' plates. There is an 'order fee', and some even have yearly fees as well. There is also the annual 'motor vehicle' registration fee. Lately they've gone crazy with options, sizes, colours, backgrounds. You won't believe the possibilities, so check out the link platerange.myplates.com.au/car
The stupidest I've seen on a car is black lettering on a dark red background. They are near impossible to read under normal driving conditions.
In over four decades of driving I have never had a number plate that does not have raised numbers.
If the letters are raised as part of the moulding and pressing then there isn't an issue, from the picture of the ones the police had they look like the letters were separate and glued on not part of the plate moulding
Prior to 1980, all number plates were 3D (letters and numbers stuck on to the plate).
While the manufacture of certain fonts could reasonably be out-lawed, I do not see how they could enforce a ruling that number plates that were legal at the time of manufacture are later illegal.
I also find the reputable manufacturers of number plates will not illegally space the digits.
The way it works is that, with one exception which I will come to in a moment, a number plate is legal to display on a car if it was legal at the time the plate was manufactured, so existing plates on cars remain legal but new ones must comply with any new regulations applying at the time they are made. The one exception is that it remains legal to get a silver-on-black number plate made for a car which had one when first registered (i.e. registered up to the end of 1972) and has NEVER had a plate made to a newer standard fitted.
Free Protips:
1.
Leaflets, websites etc are no law. An indication for that are the disclaimers that are often used. You must check the law, its creations history and the jurisprudence itself to be absolutely sure.
2.
If the regulations are meant to be exhaustive, everything that isn't in it, is (in general) NOT allowed
Your “Free Protips” actually aren’t pro tips at all, for quite a few reasons:
Although potentially (and possibly “technically”) correct with (1), it’s not quite accurate. If people are relying (and have genuine reason to rely) on particular sources, such as Government / industry standards websites, or leaflets produced by the Government, then this frequently suffices. That is because they are designed to tell the public about such laws or rules in a way which can be easily understood, thus such reliance makes them carry legal purpose. I’m guessing by “laws” you’re talking primarily about statutes, which creates a problem because they’re not for general public consumption, nor are they the only type of “law” around. This also makes me question why you want to bring up both creation history and jurisprudence here, because neither would be particularly useful, or provide you with any sort of absolute clarity (in fact, it would most likely further confuse the situation rather than add clarity).
With (2), no. Again, not particularly clear cut. Firstly, you tell me a regulation which is meant to be “complete” (exhaustive is the technical word)? In most situations, regulations are actually non-exhaustive (incomplete) because they have to adjust for changing situations in a legal system where constantly re-writing is not a suitable alternative (if this was to be the case, the backlog would literally be decades long). Secondly, even if the the regulations are “exhaustive,” it doesn’t mean everything not written is not allowed, because this would likely be too strict (having to check down right to things such as having the correct shade of yellow). There are also circumstances where it can be easily interpreted that something falls under a particular clause which makes it compliant, or that it was something forgotten or not thought about at the time, thus reasonably should be accepted as being compliant.
@@PolishAviationStaffordshire
Hey, thanks for your comment. I'm a Dutchman. So I'm commenting out of Dutch point of view and not quite accurate in my English. Nevertheless I think the 2 basic rules I mentioned are international standards. You are right that law is a living-instrument, sometimes even when it's meant to be exhaustive. But that - certainly as far as exhaustive regulations concerns - doesn't mean that you can do everything that is not expressly prohibited. In contrary. General rule of exhaustive regulation: allowed is only what is in it, everything else not. I have adjusted my initial comment to clarify this (and some other things)
EMA Motorbiker Ahh, that will explain a lot (you being Dutch), as your legal system is very different to ours here. In England & Wales (not Scotland, as they have a quasi Common/Civil Law system, and with Northern Ireland there are some slight differences), we have a Common Law legal system, as opposed to your Civil (Coded) Law legal system that you have in the Netherlands (and much of Europe). In the UK (and many Common Law jurisdictions around the world), much of our “law” comes from outside of the statute books (the Acts of Parliament that are made by our legislature). Primarily, this came from case law, but other things have been incorporated into this legal system (hence why leaflets and websites could reasonably be cited as authority, especially in circumstances like these). Further, this means our regulatory framework is frequently open-ended, specifically to allow for areas where there is currently no legal clarity, again like this situation. The best example to look at for understanding this, although neither British nor a regulation, is how the US Constitution is structured and interpreted (and the many subsequent Constitutional Law cases which add to and amend the Constitution). That is a basic way of looking at how our regulatory framework works.
Things, of course, were complicated further by EU “Regulations,” which were not the same as regulations in this sense. However, in the UK, much like Directives, it was possible to extend on these, although we could not go outside the scope or change anything we didn’t particularly agree with within those regulations. The choice of wording definitely helps confuse the situation.
Your exhaustive-regulatory system may be common in Civil Law jurisdictions, but in Common Law systems it is generally the opposite (implied as non-exhaustive unless specified otherwise). It’s not an international standard, but it’s definitely a common aspect of Civil Law jurisdictions. However, it is much different in Common Law jurisdictions. I hope that helps clarify anyway, and I’d be happy to explain any further aspects of our legal system if you’d like to know more!
@@PolishAviationStaffordshire
I understand that the regulations about plate numbers are not case law, but "written law". So I see in this case little difference with a Civil Law System. Furthermore: British Standard BS AU 145e, released on 28 February 2018, is the definitive technical standards and characteristics regulating the production and display of number plates of all motor vehicles in the country. The standard is designed exclusively for number plate manufacturers and British Standard BS AU 145e, released on 28 February 2018, is the definitive technical standards and characteristics regulating the production and display of number plates of all motor vehicles in the country. The standard is designed exclusively for number plate manufacturers and their suppliers. So the regulation doesn't seem to be addressed to individual car owners. I have also the impression that you only can get a complete version of the regulation by paying a lot of money. It's technical, meant for a limited group, though the scope is a lot wider (all individuals). So some extra questions are to be made. In case of wrongdoing: who is guilty? Number plate manufacturer and his suppliers? The individual vehicle owner? Or both? Source www.belinus.co.uk/bs-au-145e.php
EMA Motorbiker It doesn’t matter that there is some legal document codifying the situation (such as an Act or Regulation), we’re still a common law jurisdiction, and as such, the list is likely non-exhaustive and there can be case law on the subject still. It’s a big difference between Civil and Common Law jurisdictions, and as such it’ll be hard to understand if you don’k know how common law jurisdictions work. It’s the same whatever the law is about (for instance, we have loads of cases on Murder, and we also have a couple of different acts which cover the law too. However, that doesn’t make the “acts” the only piece of law on it, and it doesn’t mean things cannot be implied or added). Also, the regulations will be available for free “if” they are to be used as a legal document (it’s a requirement to do that). In the case of wrongdoing, it would depend on whether it was a criminal or non-criminal matter firstly. Secondly, more than one person (or company) could be liable (guilty only if criminally wrong) for wrongdoing, again depending on its particular wording and subsequent law around the area
Is it the GTI OWNERS on the the plate that is infringing on the regulations , size of the font and placement ( too close to the registration letters ). I remember there being cases when dealers started advertising on plates of them being illegal for those reasons.
3d gel and 4d plates are completely legal provided they meet all the other requirements (size of digits spacing etc). In fact there DVLA approved suppliers for the digits used to make them. I doubt the DVLA would approve a manufacturer for something that isn't road legal.
3d 4 D plates will be illegal Oct 21. If you have them, and you don't want the fine, bin them
I have a set of gel style plates on my vehicle, like yourself, i checked the legalities before purchasing. As usual in the UK, laws are as clear as a muck, open to various levels of interpretation.
Funny as numbers on plates use to be raised plastic with lugs on the back that were backing was punched rivited onto ally background, have several hung in the garage.
Well +1 to Cumbria police for actually dealing with people with dodgy number plates. Here in Kent I've seen plenty of vehicles with unreadable plates and even one case where a driver was almost certainly breaking the high street's 30 limit with mud-covered rear plates whilst the police, who were a short distance behind did absolutely nothing.
And w.r.t. ANPR, there's a Romanian manager who works where I do. He loves our motorways; he says in places it's like driving on the unrestricted Autobahn. I'll let you make your own mind up about what he means.
I paid to get raised plates on mine.
I asked to make sure they were legal.
Not that I see the point in them but it's an interesting question. Looking through the twitter replies it seems Cumbria have taken the stance that, as ('physical') 3d isn't specifically mentioned anywhere in the regulations, 3d plates are not tested by British Standards to see if they meet requirements, and therefore cannot comply, i.e, illegal.
I've see plates like Ashley's quite often and you can barely tell without looking closely. The ones in the video did seem to be pushing the limits a bit. From an angle the raised letters would block parts of the gaps in the letters and make it less legible.
The traditional form of raised letters on plates (looking at vintage plates for example) is in a triangular cross-section. Unless you're looking at the plate from a very sharp angle, the visible outline of the font doesn't change. That's what the ANPR systems will care about. Ash's plates aren't triangular section, but do conform to that basic principle as they are embossed only slightly. The plates that Cumbria objected to had deep square sections, which only have the correct font outlines when viewed straight on, and I imagine ANPR might legitimately have difficulty with that.
Thinking more broadly, the *purpose* of a number plate is to *display* the registration of the vehicle, both front and rear. Such display is a legal requirement for driving a motor vehicle on the public roads, just like tax, MOT and insurance are. Many "custom" plate designs and accessories are specifically designed to *inhibit* that display in particular contexts, and that is what makes them illegal.
Informative video Ashley cheers. I don't see any problem with your plates, but as many people have pointed out, the plates that Cumbria Police took issue with do look to be excessively pronounced.
I don't mess with my plates as I think it makes you look a bit more of a target / attract more unwanted attention on the road. I do see that as a driving school car though, it makes sense. Other companies and businesses use private regs to advertise their services, or make their vehicles look more professional.
Can you tell us what you think of other reg plate trends, as in tinted plates, or plates displayed in windows to make the front end of the car look cleaner. Do you think these are acceptable/legal.
Cheers
Saw a car the other day which had grey'd plates....same as normal white front, yellow back with all correct characters. But with a greying over the whole plates. As if someone has placed a net curtain over them.
I think the issue with the raised letters he had, is that the plate could be altered? It looks like the kind of letters you get on your fridge for your kids.
A pressed metal one like yours is different.
Mine came with the car so they better be legal. Never seen the point in paying for these vanity plates, they’re crazy expensive.
Not always, it depends on what style you get. Some are around £300, if they match the normal pattern, eg XX00 XXX, similar to Ashley's, or X000 XXX, for the older style. It's the ones which don't match the standard pattern which can be crazy money.
Konrad Green £300 is crazy expensive, especially when my car probably isn’t worth that in the first place. That’s also more than one week’s wages for many people on full time contract’s (excluding tax).
@@PolishAviationStaffordshire good point, but I was comparing it to the price of cars like Ashley's tho, which is only what, like 2 years old?
Konrad Green Yes, it probably is. However, considering its value would likely be quite low for the model and age of the car, it may still be a relatively expensive change if it’s required
@@PolishAviationStaffordshire not quite sure what you mean. Once you buy the plate it's a flat fee to transfer it from car to car, and I think Ashley's had it for a cars now.
There are companies from where you can buy raised letters that you can stick on top of non-raised letters on a standard number plate, which I’ve seen some people on UA-cam use. They look pretty much exactly the same as your plates, Ashley, but would be suitable for someone who is worried about getting stopped by the police - if you do get stopped, you can simply remove the letters at the roadside and most police forces will then not issue you with any fines. Just a little tip for anyone who wants this style of lettering, but is a bit weary of the police. :)
well this would be a waste of money to be honest, imagine spending money on that and then some jumped up police officer trying to dish out a fine becae your plates are "illegal" only for you to remove those letters just to be "legal" in their opinion.
As nice as vanity plate are regardless of stickers or actualy plates made there really is no point to them on the roads because police lol
Eh, I'd go with the spirit of the law here. The rules are laid down to make it easy for people and cameras to read the number plates in varying conditions and from varying angles. The higher the letters are raised, the more head-on you have to be to read it. Yours are probably fine because they're readable from any angle flat characters would. The one in the tweet probably aren't, because they're not. There's a grey area inbetween, and that just how life be sometimes.
It's so very easy just to get legal acrylic numbers plates. Even going so far as having the BSAU marker isn't difficult...
Pressed aluminium plates are technically illegal for vehicles manufactured after 2001 but the 3D gel characters are legal
I think we'll find that the clown lettering is soon legislated against.
@@FFVoyager Clown font is already illegal. Only font permitted is that shown in regulations with size and spacing.
Have seen cars with tiny letters on their plates... Wonder how long they get away with it before they get pulled.
I thought the whole point of number plates was to have your own custom plate...I didn't even know you can actually modify it under a certain set of rules of course. The DVLA could've made this so much easier for themselves if it was purely just a custom in terms of lettering and numbers.
Raised digit type number plates are not compliant / legal. Essentially the digits are of a stick-on type construction. The digits of a number plate must be a permanent feature. Stick-on digits can be removed from the substrate with a blade.
Normal number plates encapsulate the digit in the middle of the materials used in the construction.
Reflective / Acrylic plates - Digits printed on to reflective material, wet 3mm acrylic with placed on top and bonded together - digits sandwiched in the middle.
ABS / Aluminium / Clear film plates - Digits printed in reverse on clear film, then flipped over and placed on top of an ABS or aluminium substrate with wet reflective and bonded together - digits sandwiched in the middle.
The British Standard (BSAU 145e) is an enforcement of the Statutory Instrument passed through parliament - The Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) Regulations 2001.
All markings on a registration plate (the reg, supplier name & postcode, British Standard) must be a permanent feature of the plate construction.
The only plate type with a raised digit that conforms to standard is a pressed aluminium plate.
All of the major component / number plate suppliers offer raised digit plates. Its the first part of the construction before processing to a finished plate where the supplier can argue that the digit is not stick-on.
For most, a panel of black material of equal size to a reflective substrate are lightly bonded together. Then, an engraving / milling machine cuts out the digits. The waste material is removed, the bonding process completed and there you have it, your finished plate. At no time was a digit stuck to the plate....
All that aside, unless your plate has italic, wrong sized, mis-spaced digits and so on, it is highly unlikely you will find yourself on the wrong side of the law.
I would like to know if the trend by young drivers removing the registration plate from the car body & displaying it on the dashboard is legal.
Grey area. Technically it should be on the front of the vehicle. However as they are required to display a number plate visible from Infront of the vehicle, then in the windscreen is just about legal. Can depend on the drivers attitude to the Police that pull them over. The " oh, it fell off this morning officer " patter only works if it appears to have been attached at some time. Some strips of torn double-sided sticky tape on the plate and bumper would probably be ok. But 2 screw holes in the plate and no holes in the spotlessly clean bumper is obviously garbage
Does actually say on the gov website that number plates have to be mounted closest to the vertical point possible on a vehicle. Seen as 99% of cars do have somewhere to put it then I suppose police could still give you a ticket. Or they could just say that you should have it like an Alfa Romeo. Off to the side with a bike plate
You mention that as long as it isn't expressly outlawed within the regulations then it is legal - and I do agree.
What I've been curious about is the tinted plates that I think we've all been seeing around recently. We can't deny they look cool, but I wonder whether this is something that the police will turn a blind eye too unless they have a bone to pick or you have a headlight out perhaps.
As long as they can be read they'll probably ignore it until they have a reason to stop you. Or, if they have suspicions on drugs in the vehicle for example they may stop you for the plate and then investigate further once stopped
I got stopped and told that 4D 2-tone were completely illegal, but I can’t see anything wrong with them. They are still easy to see, doesn’t read another registration. After looking at theses laws, and speaking to other officers got the same plates, in a shortened (still legal width) plates, and I will be keeping these until the law officially changes.
What about the old black plates with raised letters . Also old motorcycles with a plate on the front mud guard ?
The seized plates had raised letters which looked to be around 12mm thick not the 1 to 2 mm on legal 3d plates.
JDM plates. Offer 3mm or 5mm
My original plates on my first car where 3d, lead letters on a metal plate, it was a 1976 Mini. Therefore factory fitted plates at the time, my current pressed plates are legal, and have the bs mark and theyre slightly 3d being pressed.
My pet peeve are people with black and silver number plates on new cars - but that's only because of sour grapes - I tried to get them fitted on my old land rover - which I'd repainted black and silver - only to find out that because my Landie had been registered on the 13th of Jan 1979 it was 12 days too new to be legally allowed to display black and silver plates :-)
Cool that you guys have at least some room for customizing your license plates (3D, custom numbers, EU stripe is optional). Here all plates are issued by the DMV and are all the same boring AA 111 AA format
Look good, but to much hassle to keep clean. If lettering too deep, muck could sit and alter the shape of the letters. Also they blend from the side. Originally plates were printed and/or pressed, i assume it was just a simple way of making a plate, before acrylic plates became cheaper to make.
I know this is an old video, from my knowledge the plates shown by Cumbria Police are considered 4D plates. I know someone who produced these as show plates only and not road legal ones. Another problem with 4D plates is manufactures can use two colours of acrylic to give it a colour effect, i realise this is not related to either plate but something i wanted to point out.
It would be interesting to see how the DVLA ruled on this and if the owner appealled any decision and that outcome.
However, your 3D plates don't actually look massively raised, and i'd bet ANPR would work the same for your plate as any standard printed one.
At least you can read PA55 SOS. But what about the dark mustard colour insread of yellow which makes the license number unreadable on some plates. That should be stopped.
I have a 1960 BSA 650 A10 motorcycle. The rear number plate has white raised numbers & letters on a black metal plate
It is not clear from the photograph of the plates of the Cumbria were reflective, which they must be.
I would have thought, as you got yours from a reputable supplier, they would have put a disclaimer on the order advising you if the plates supplied were not road legal....
I have been driving for about 3 years now and have had 4D plates on both my cars and never had any issues. they have the bs markings as well as the manufacturer's details and are properly spaced and are on a reflective backing e.c.t. (the plates you were tagged in did not have the manufacturers details so I'm assuming this was the issue but no idea why the post by the police stated that "3d" plates are illegal) my current plates are 3 layers of acrylic so much more raised than the ones on the police post on twitter.
You good mate I got 6 letters on my plate but spaced out is that illegal ?