What are Time Base Correctors & WHEN do you need them? (for glitch art)
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- Опубліковано 9 січ 2021
- Time Base Correctors (TBC) are devices that make sure you don't get signal dropout on your non-CRT monitors whenever you're doing hard analog video signal glitches (for glitch art purposes). In my demo I take a basic dirty mix of two video signals and send the output directly to a CRT TV and a DLP projector to understand how the former handles glitches fine, while the latter drops the signal (shows blue screen of death, searching for new source, etc). Then, one at a time, I put a Sima SFX-9, Panasonic WJ-AVE 7, Roland/Edirol V-8, and a Prime Image TBC/Freeze II in between the dirty mix and the projector to get an idea of how each device stabilizes the video glitch so there's (ideally) no more signal dropout.
The DLP projector in this demo is simply acting as our example of any display that is NOT an old tube TV monitor, meaning similar signal dropout can occur in other types of displays and capture devices (with varying degrees of severity). BUT, if you're lucky, some older LCD displays actually do a decent job of not dropping the signal and can handle glitches better by themselves, than if you were to run the signal through a Roland/Edirol or Panasonic mixer first.
By the way, in this video I'm not getting super technical or nit-picky about models, manufacturing dates, and terms (there's a more in-depth resource here: www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video.... I'm just trying to put this info in purely practical and time-saving terms from a glitch artist's perspective. There's of course a lot more you can research about this topic if it interests you, but it's not for this video's intended audience.
@Tachyonsplus and Big Pauper Modified Circuitry also have some things to say about this topic; you can find those pages here:
tachyonsplus.com/time-base-co...
glitchart.com/glitch-art-vide...
Thanks Tesseractive for sending me a demo of a working WJ-AVE5! You can follow him here: / _tesseractive_ - Наука та технологія
thanks for watching! like i said this is a purely practical-knowledge video so stuff like the difference between frame synchronizers and frame buffers and other things are not covered, nor that important i would argue. just go make art, and don't freak out about technical terms.
...also, yeah, i recognize videos like these are inevitably accelerating the shortage of analog video gear for sale online... which is why i think my next video will be about the people who are making analog video gear in the present day. people seem to be catching on that this gear doesn't last forever. already one of the mixers in this video, thankfully the one i use the least, has stopped working.
excellent instruction thank you
So cool to see this, I worked in TV the analogue era and understand a bit about this but I never really knew why TBC's were so important. They were a big and expensive part of every professional edit suite and VTR without them you couldn't do dissolves with an A-B roll suite. Am I correct in thinking that if the sources were gen locked you wouldn't need a TBC to do a wipe or dissolve with a simple pot? You are doing things I used to want to try 20 years ago but couldn't mess with $6000 Time base correctors in my tv station.
Dude. I found this video in "my analog video gear for glitch art/video art" playlist and I don't even know should i saw it, BUT please keep making videos like this. I'm a begginer VJ and this analog stuff is really complicated for me. You are really helping me to understand that. Thanks for this video!!
oops this wasnt meant to be visible yet haha
Video circuits forum or Facebook group. Everything you need to know is out there.
you can't imagine how happy i am i stumbled upon this channel. you're doing gods work and helping both artists and people who just want to digitize analog video media. thank you!
So cool to see that you have converted your bed into a studio. I have done the same. It feels so good to know that I am not the only one stock piling old CRTs in his bedroom. Cheers !
ALREADY one of the best channels for me , not many people go too much in depth as far as things like dirty glitch mixers and the like go, instant sub ! thanks :)
I was never looking for glitch art or analog video, but I am so glad I stumbled on your channel. I'm blown away by how amazing and real-time this format can be. Not surprised, but absolutely amazed.
I absolutely LOVE YOUR VIDEOS!
This is huge, thanks a lot for this i’ve been really curious about this process
I think there is a subtle difference to mention TBC, frame sync, and Genlock are somewhat similar- but are multiple ways of synchronization between inputs. What we used to call "video mixers" basically dealt with a nightmare of back-end... not just crossing the frames themselves... but also synchronizing the lines so you did not get that weird top to bottom glitch when ever changing cameras. Now with a video switcher... yes you could base a reference off of a single camera and send a GENLOCK signal to them (really just as simple of taking the reference camera and routing its video into the other camera... But unlike the video mixer- the switcher does not really have a reference point. You not only need to also route your frame sync into it- you need to tell it what black video looks like. Sure- plugging a composite camera signal into a TV generally works... but it is because the TV knew it had to base its info off of the signal. In terms of a DLP- we open a whole new door... because generally you have to then quantify nuances
top tiers youtube channel, thanks a lot, really inspiring and helpful
This was very informative and helpful, thank you.
Thank you so much for this video! I recently got a flat crt and thought I wouldn’t be able to use it for glitch art because of the blue screen of death. Found it in settings and turned it off immediately. Now it’s working like a crt should!
very cool stuff. great work
this channel rocks. Your videos are awesome, even my girlfriend who is not into visual art or technology does like them when I am watching.
thanks for this! so helpful when starting out.
wow...i want to get in this field and know absolutely nothing about how to begin. Your videos are very entertaining and useful, thank you!
Excellent video. What would you recommend as a good, yet, price conscious time Base Corrector? Thanks
thank you SO MUCH for the information
very helpful thank you!
great channel!
tg for this video I was so confused, after experimenting with my setup I've had pretty good success running first into my MX12 and then into my WJAVE55
Nice! I've got a hold of a serious video processor/mixer from the 80s, which has a separate genlock input to the video input. I'm unsure exactly what signal to feed into it. Am I right in thinking that I could use an RCA Y cable to split the signal out from my composite device, and feed it into the genlock input as well as video input simultaneously for this? I can't find a manual for this thing anywhere.
thank you for this vid too!! you rock :D
Thank you!
LORD SMURF MENTIONED 🎉
ur the man
Would you do a video or maybe a link to guide me in the right direction for learning more about making a circuit setup up like that?
Thanks so much for making these videos. Do you have any advice on dealing with mouldy VHS tapes? Do you have a dedicated open VCR to clean them in to avoid contaminating the VCR being used to capture?
Good.
Nicely done. Also you sorta sound like Aaron spectre (drumcorps). Very nice explanation btw.
id really like to find more info on the gen lock signal used to keep multiple TBCs in sync with each other. the Hotronic AR71 and AR41 give a sync signal out but I cant find any info on what would have been used to send it to multiple TBCs as a standalone device. Another terrible thing about Edirol mixers is that the monitor out is pre-TBC, which is a real shame if you wanna use it as an easy feedback source because the image is just all over the place.
helloo from switzerland! i really loveyour videos im trying to make analog glitch art for a school project and i wanted to ask if you could maybe describe how to make the dirty mixer a little more like what are the exact parts called and how do i put them together? thank youuu for ur videoss!!:DDDD
Thank for making this! Clears up so much when shopping around for vintage gear. I have a small Panasonic CRT which only has a coax video input (no RCA), so I use a simple powered RF modulator to get the video signal on there normally. Do you know if I might run into any issues with dropped signals using circuit bent/glitch devices going straight from the RF modulator to the TV?
I had bad luck with an RF modulator handling a dirty video mixer on my friend’s TV. It ended up handling the signal worse than an LED TV
i found a edirol v4 for quite cheap online what do you think are some good additions to this as a beginner?
hi i have this critter and guitari eyesy going into a roland v-4ex mixer. for some reason i get these 2 green lines when i use the mixer with the device. without the mixer it runs normally. why is this ?
Aye you're welcome for the ave5 clip! I didn't realize u could've used a clip of the mx-1 cus I've got one of those too lol
whoops i guess its time to redo the video lol jk. u could put a demo on ur channel if u wanted to
Could you upload the mx1 clip?
thank you for the content you put out there. I decided to get into VJ using analog with liquid light painting and somehow found your channel. believe me man my wallet is cursing you. I found a reasonably priced Edirol V8 and 2 Sansui VX99 that I intend to circuit bend (the VXs not the Edirol obviously) so I'm pretty sure that I'll need to find a TBC to process the glitches with the V8. I found some obscure rack mount TBC with no information on any of them. do you think almost any rack TBC will work or do they behave differently? (I mean I pretty sure the results from every models will be different. but different as in workable or different as a green and black AVT-8710?) or I'm I better off finding flat CRT tvs and capturing them with camcorders and mixing the signal from that? also I'm in europe is there a way to mix NTSC and PAL gear?
You da man (vol.2)
thank you (vol.2)
Love the 12voltvids reference
Any idea why my crt starts scrolling when i use my circut bent device? I have 2 crts and it only seems to happen on one of them and I cant figure out why
Is there any model of AV to HDMI signal converter with some kind of TBC built in?
Dope
Your channel is THE invaluable resource on glitch art for video creators.
does it matter if you get a solo rack mount digital TBC over analog? is there any difference?
hey, just wondering what that piece would be called that you plug your video sources into in the like dirty mixer? not sure where i could find one
female rca jack?
I feel like they’re really slept on but I use a Numark Mixer and one of the benefits of it being a relatively newer unit is that it handles the TBC really flawlessly. Edirol’s and AVE’s get a lot of love but I definitely recommend Numark!
definitely yeah people will have to look for alternatives as the other more popular mixers get rarer.
which one are u using?
@@YOVOZOL Does WJ MX-10 have TBC built in? And Is TBC a MUST of VHS capturing ? The Pr always stops capturing in about 30mins with ADVC110 Do you know why???
Which Numark mixer do you have or recommend?
Do you need a TBC to record a glitch signal to a vhs?
Whats the model of the Prime Image rack TBC you have? I grabbed one of da bay like 6 months ago and it has not been cooperating with my set up. May be defective but it looks like the same model potentially
a Prime Image Freeze II. how is it not cooperating?
@@YOVOZOL I also have the Prime Image TBC/Freeze II. Its not displaying a steady output of my input. I assumed it was either broken or needed an external sync signal but now idk. I think it may be the settings on the front or something. I'm going to poke around with it later today - its just been siitting in the studio unused for a few months.
Hey man, appreciate you as always! When i feedback my panasonic mx70 its always green, and there is a faint smell of escaping pixies from the exhaust fan, but everything else works perfect. Do you know what was wrong with your one?
Capacitors have most likely failed in the red and blue channels, or some point it mixes or derives the colour signals. Caps fail after 20+years.
the sima ed/it 2 Does it have a built-in Time Base Corrector? And if the answer is yes, how good is it for glitch art?
i don't know sorry - just by looking at it, could go either way
Great video again. I just managed to find a super cheap videonics mx-1 which will mainly function as my TBC. I read that it has a good build in TBC but I can't find any video of video glitches with a mx-1 as TBC. I am curious if it will have a certain "flavor", like some people claim the WJ-AVE5 seems to have. Does anyone here have experience with a mx-1 as TBC?
I don't have it but I hear the MX-1 is pretty good, and I know a lot of people have it in their effects chain so I bet somebody can answer.
Hmm... I wonder how well does the OSSC (Open Source Scan Converter) handle these glitched sync signals... It actually (unlike some other converters) looks at the signal on a scanline by scanline basis, and is designed for low latency output. With that in mind, it's my guess that even if it can't nicely handle or tries to correct a dirty signal out of the box, there's a chance that custom firmware could be made to improve its glitch performance.
maybe, it could be worth investigating, hope somebody does
Would a TBC help with my trinitron WEGA CRT dropping signal and going to blue screen when glitched? I find if I try to push it a bit the signal is lost and I get a blue screen
you need to turn off whatever digital stabilization setting is active on your CRT, that's the cause of the problem. if you can't find the setting just get an older TV.
@@YOVOZOL amazing thanks so much, have thought it could be a setting. Can't manage to find this setting to turn it off. Might have to look at look at an older CRT!
after watching this video the shadows in my house started exhibiting white noise and sync drops. Do you have recommendations for a time based corrector for the shadow realm?
burn it down.
*edit: i cannot be held responsible for any damages
What model downscaler / upscaler are you using?
I use downscalers by TvOne C2-2000 series but cheap $30 ones on amazon work just fine, but sometimes they can just stop working after a while.
My upscalers vary but ones from TvOne also work, amazon devices do too. I'll probably do a video about it soon.
@@YOVOZOL Thanks for the info! I've been using an Extron VSC700 for downscaling and an Extron DVS204 for upscaling myself. A lot of older broadcast scalers are pretty cheap on Ebay these days, but I hear you on the woes of this art form being so dependent on secondary markets. Looking forward to your video about current gear makers!
Also thanks for putting out all of these videos! Always interesting to see how other people are doing things. It was after watching your rig rundown that I realized how powerful Resolume would be in my own setup.
I have a couple TBC’s an they haven’t given me the stability I was hoping for with bent gear
Videonix MX-1 has the best TBC of my gear for bending - even my FOR.A 310-P doesn’t work as nicely
that's good to hear that the mx-1 works well! and it seems to be one of the more common mixers lately
@@YOVOZOL haven't been able to harness the feedback on the MX-1 though - V4 great for that although the fb only goes from right to left
ага, именно это мне и было нужно
(I was looking all over your channel and didnt find a video like this but if you have already made one pls pls point me to it) Could you make a tutorial on how you shoot and glitch live footage. Like when you are VJing a live show and you broadcast glitch videos of the band in real time. Very curious on how you do this process!
basically its as simple as pointing the camera at the band and taking the camera's video output (nearly all prosumer cameras do) and routing it to analog hardware. does that answer?
clutch. fuckin clutch
All Hail Lordsmurf
So, I’m looking at a (broken) VCR thinking..
“Somewhere inside you is a timebase corrector..”
there might be but i don't think it's something you can extract technically speaking
Yo fancy video mixer with a KNOB! who can afford such things.
Awesome video thanks for discussing this. it's great to see other people out there doing this stuff! those mixers are really nice having internal syncing.. but if you deal with multiple devices / sources I wasn't sure if anything was said in here about black burst boxes.. keep in mind
some older mixers don't have internal tbc.. even some 90s mixers would have you think they could mix but really they required two synced signals coming in.. meaning you needed two tbcs and those tbcs needed to be synced with a single signal from a black burst box.. one of my meanderings ua-cam.com/video/odYvcQf6fzk/v-deo.html i have a lot more stuff to test / demonstrate.. currently restoring a video toaster.
yea the old stuff is tough to find.. sometimes it's a gamble.. sometimes things are overpriced and people may get ripped off. i've been lucky (so far) that the gambles i took on "as is" external tbcs did in fact work.. sadly 90s gear is often prone to bad capacitors... 80s gear funny enough tends to be more rugged.. because they were not using caps prone to leaking.. so many of the very cool videonics items and sima stuff tends to be prone to failure.. a few things i bought are bad, but hey this is glitch.. so not exactly perfect isn't exactly bad :)
Looking up TCBs on ebay, they are crazy expensive
yup, that's why most just use tube TVs. hopefully this cleared up why you might not need one at all tho
man tbc's are so expensive wtf :( i just want to use this damn optiglitch on my computer with no blue screens :((((((((((( big sad
bro, i just wanted to create some distortion for an art video, but now i'm not understanding anything with all this glitch art stuff, i'm also wondering if it's really worth it that i spend hundreds of dollars just for some distortion here and there.
then ask/commission somebody who does know
Nice video for art but The advice you gave at the end about TBC for VHS digitization is wrong (or at least the way you phrased is wrong). You said "don't worry about external TBC because most VCR has internal TBC" First, no! Not most VCRs have internal TBC . Second and more importantly the TBC inside a VCR is a Line TBC, it corrects jitter and other errors with tape transport i.e they make the video look better. The external TBC like datavideo, avt and others you showed in the video are FRAME TBC, they perform frame synchronization and fix dropped frames and issues with the signal itself, simply put ( oversimplified) they don't really have a visible effect for image quality but they have effect for signal stability and continuity and might help reduce the chance of audio getting out of sync consequently. I would suggest ( if you can) you add a a note or sth to your video to fix this like you did to declare that you mixer is defective. Have a good day 👍
i don't know if you actually listened to me in this video, but I explained literally what you just wrote. I also specifically mentioned that you CAN'T use the TBC inside a VCR for external purposes and that it only corrects tape playback. However since I've made this video some people have told me there are some VCR models you may actually be able to use externally.