i think you missed this at certain points,and this is my opinion:yes,it's arrogance,yes he thinks a lot of his own ideas,but i also think it's not just arrogance fueling his words and actions,i think it's hurt,i think it's anger,i think,partially,he's lashing out,remember he says he's not angry at your/blaming you for what you *did* but for what you made him *see.* as far as the courier goes,i think it's a lot of that clouding his judgement.
Oxhorn Well ill give what i think a shot. Ulysses is correct both nations are not what we need but they can become it. The issue with the Ncr is it has a easy time of it and expanded out of control causing the corruption to take root. The legion on the other hand has the issue of there being no real national identity they are just following the man at the top out of fear or respect. The way to solve this isn't to kill them both but make them stop and reform themselves into what they believe they are. Make Vegas a city state a trade hub between the west and east keep there expansion and keep peace. We have built a nation before we can do it again
You made a mistake. Ceasar did not come from New Canaan. Joshua Graham came from New Canaan - Caesar was a Follower of the Apocalypse. The reason why Ceasar wants to destroy New Canaan was to spite Joshua Graham or to bury his memory, not his own. That's the reason why Caesar spares the Followers if he takes over New Vegas... he still has sympathy for the Followers even after long been away from them.
Ulysses was originally supposed to be a companion you could recruit. He'd have been the only companion who was more sympathetic to the Legion, and would have provided lot of insight into that faction. Thanks to time constraints (thanks Bethesda) Obsidian had to scrap that.
That actually sucks to hear as this dude would have been a beast of a companion. I remember the first time I fought him I thought I was gonna destroy him simply with everything new I had found in the divide. It didn’t quite work out like that though. I honestly gained more respect for him after I had fought him.
@@hexcellerateofficial there is actually a mod with full dialogue support for Ulysses, i love the fact you can have him as a companion since he is such a mysteries yet unique character. he speaks of wisdom of truth of what happened in the divide and what the courier such as you the player did before the events of u even playing the game first. he even helps you with in the last main mission in the battle of hoover dam.
Unless your Courier does not come from the west. It's unlikely your Courier comes from NCR anyways given how little they know of their way of life. But ultimately it's the player's decision.
Somehow, your screen name feels fitting for that interaction. Would probably be a badass name for the quest where that happens, but I can't articulate exactly why. As Above, So Below just feels right.
*The Courrier* : [Try to have a normal conversation]. *Joshua* : God gave us life and the life of the creator is our life. The punishment is divine for the impure souls that live in the land of the damned. *Ulysses* : Bull...Bear...Bull...Bear...Bull...Bull...History...Flags... The courrier has disconnected.
"It's said war - war never changes. Men do, through the roads they walk. And this road - has reached its end." I think this is the central message of the Fallout series--at least the western ones. Think it through. Your character is the courier--your road has ended--so your character has changed. This has lots of implications for the remainder of New Vegas. But more broadly, you the player, having played through Fallout have walked a road as well. And Fallout is nothing if not a cautionary tale. You don't spend several hundred hours sifting through ruins and garbage without the unspoken message there leaving some sort of mark. But mostly, I think, men do change through the roads they walk. If war never changes, then the lesson to learn from history is that men can, they do, and even a single individual can change the course of a nation--the vault dweller proved it, the chosen one proved it, and the courier proved it. Seems like Obsidian's telling us that the world of Fallout, or something like it, isn't inevitable. But it's not in the hands of large governments, but of individuals.
True. You have Ulysses. Someone who has seen the worst of humanity just like the Courier. The lesson is to learn the history of things so you don't repeat them; if one person knows that history, that person can change the course of everything. Ulysses ended up learning the wrong lesson here, though. We cannot be the final arbiters; history always has the last word. Our job as people is to avoid doing something particularly rash. Nuking entire nations, again, is pretty rash, and the first time was not exactly the smartest thing to do (severe understatement obviously). It left the world the way it is in the Fallout series. Ulysses conveniently forgot this particular facet of history in his rage. That's something else he did not recognize, too. He wasn't firing the missiles because he was right; he was firing the missiles in anger, without real thought behind it. The Courier had to remind Ulysses of that, and the Courier's own past bears out that the packages they deliver don't always mean good tidings will happen in the future, another thing Ulysses forgets as well. 'Don't shoot the messenger', as it were. In many ways, I think Ulysses' unique past made him ripe for doing something independent of either faction. Yes, he is intelligent, thoughtful, philosophic, but he made the key error of not recognizing his own hypocritical action. War never changes, but people should change. If the games tell us anything, perhaps we should start thinking about our fellow man instead of nations. In Fallout, we have the option of starting over right, or repeating the same fractured past. Nations do as they must, but people need to think about the next generation and making the world better than it was. They can change what a nation does. The hardest lesson in New Vegas is one Ulysses had yet to learn. Sometimes, letting go is wisest. Whether it is of the past, technologies hidden in far flung places that should stay hidden, what have you, letting go is a much safer option for people. This is the lesson the Courier had learned through many travels, and the Courier can start society over again with those many lessons learned. (It would be interesting to *see* the results of those actions twenty/thirty/forty years down the road however.)
Sean Carroll Yeah. The type of nationalism in Fallout--and it could be any sort of group mentality, from religions to political ideoligies--but the nationalism in America in Fallout was the worst kind. A tribal identity used to trick people into forgetting their humanity, and denying the humanity of others. A symbol crafted, through propaganda, to make people hate enough that they would personally delight in seeing their enemies suffer. An excuse to cultivate and indulge all the darker parts of our nature--for the "greater good", you see. That's the symbol--the flag--that failed. That's the nation that died. Reviving that "America" is as dangerous as waking up a base of ICBMs.
Ulysses is a holder of history, a personification of the old adage if one does not learn from history...he is a harbinger of that doom. The symbols of his past are destroyed and lost to history, not once but twice. he is a man without a nation standing as an impartial judge to the symbols of new Vegas. being an outside observer of these ideologies, and not immersed within them, he has a unique opportunity to perceive these symbols without bias. how can we change tradition from the inside? his actions although extreme are his ways of wiping the slate clear. If the nations that be refuse to grow, if the people in them refuse to change, then the nation must be torn down to be made anew.
I agree with you this is a final and best way to end the franchise and with Ulysses quote “ War War never changes men do through the roads they walk. And this road... has reached it ended” best way to end the franchise
19:45 I got the impression that Ulysses' problems with communication stems from being too smart yet uneducated; he understands underlying principles and abstractions well enough but doesn't know the precise terminology.
@@maximusd26 his "4" INT is due to the brain tumor (one of the legionaries we get to question or torture back at Camp McCarran could hint at that) And even if ignore that one, some really stupid people could be very good at something. (Take agent 47 for example: 'cause of the amount of chromosomes, he can be considered to be a retard. In spite of that, he is the best fucking assassin you could ever get your hands on.) Could be a similar situation with Caesar.
I always thought that the knots in the braids had literal meaning. There was a native American tribe (I can’t remember which one) that tied knots in lengths of rope/string as a form of written language. Maybe something similar was practiced by the Twisted Hairs, and that’s why Ulysses “got lost trying to read them”.
Lora Elstad thanks for finding that! I think if the hair worn by members of the Twisted Hairs showed their folk stories, or maybe represented personal trials that a member has faced, it would cut so much deeper for Ulysses when the White Legs wore their hair in the style of Ulysses because they took something that had so much meaning and reduced it to a style.
I think Obsidian meant the braiding to be similar to tribal braiding in Africa, where the manner of braids can tell someone's wealth, martial status, family, and accomplishments
Hes african American. Theres a good chance he's referring to box braids, a hairstyle with linguistic history going back to US slavery, where people would braid coded messages and maps into their hair.
I think I have a foot in both parties. Ulysses is an interesting character in that you want to find out more about him, what his history with Courier Six is and what were the events that created the Divide. But on the other hand, he IS long winded and doesn't give you a straight answer. Not only that, but he blames you for things you had no control over. Did you cause the nukes at Hopeville to detonate? Yes. Did your character do it on purpose? No. I really wish there was a dialogue option to tell Ulysses that 'I got shot in the head! I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED!' That being said, I agree with the other people in the comments that Ulysses would make a great companion. It would be interesting to hear his dialogue about certain things. I would've liked to see Ulysses show up in Fallout 4. Not as a companion but someone to talk to, maybe he would drop subtle hints about New Vegas.
"Who are you, who do not know your history?" I cannot tell you how happy I was that that dialogue option was given to us in our final confrontation with Ulysses. A question asked in anger. It's just as you said in this video; he saw his tribe destroyed, its people enslaved and killed, its history and culture lost forever. He himself walked with the Legion, absorbing and destroying all that stood in their way. It was he who armed the White Legs and sent them to destroy a nation and a people. How could he, who remembered at the last his lost tribe, who understood in that moment the weight of his folly, still think himself fit to judge the NCR? To judge the Courier for an accident? So obsessed was he with the history of Courier Six and of America that he forgot his own. I truly loved Ulysses as a character - seldom in a video game have I encountered one more compelling, and I liked the way he spoke. I do not think it was a difficulty with the English language or Western culture that shaped his manner of speaking, but a respect for history, the desire to be perfectly understood and choose words carefully. But for all his introspection, all his earnestness, for his sorrow, the bitterness and cold rage that he made his shield, he spent too much time in his own head and too little in the real world. The Courier saved him from making a terrible mistake.
Not to mention, he blamed the courier for destroying the divide when it’s not our fault at all. If anything, you should blame whoever ordered the package. You don’t get mad at a mailman for delivering bills 😂
I honestly think Ulysses may be one of the most fascinating characters in this series. While other people may take issue with the backstory the courier is given in Lonesome Road, I think it’s honestly one of the best stories in the entire Fallout series.
Well from reading the lore on the backstory of the courier fur lonesome road. Turns out what he tells about your self it's your memories lost when you got shot in the head. Talk about being reborn you used to be a monster.
Couldn't the grave at wolfhorn ranch be where Ulysses buried things from his past. The bladed gauntlet being from when he was with the white legs. It might not be a grave for an actual person but his old self when he was with the legion.
In F76, you launch a nuke to rid Appalachia of the Scorched plague, so the initial intention is good. However, given the side effects of radiation+destruction, as well as the real possibility of Vault 76 residents aiming nukes elsewhere, the overall ending isn't sunshine and rainbows, and can turn evil.
It undercuts a few, but it still proved Ulysses' primary philosophy correct - a single person with enough motivation and resources could change everything.
@Conn Benn Im going to use an example. America moved to defcon 2 in the cold war due to the missiles from cuba aimed at the US. Defcon 1 means nuclear war.
And if given the chance to eradicate the world that give him this suffering single handedly, he will and maybe we also will do it, at least this world is gone if it get worse, at least I give it a try
Maybe... but does that justify to kill thousands of innocent people? I mean - just imagine he has his way and nukes California. Which one of the families he burns to death or sentences to die in a horrible way due to radiation was in any way shape or form responsible for his fate? Being 'just angry' is no excuse for commiting attrocities. And whatever happened to him, doesn't entitle him in any way to do the same thing to anyone else. I - could understand if he was to kill the Courier, after all he brought (unknowing) the device that destroyed his home. I couldn't justify it however. Killing the messenger isn't solving anything. Ulysses is nothing more than a whining brat believing in his entitlement. 'The world has wronged me, so I have the right to burn it down'. You know, even if you spare him in the finale, he at least deserves spanking, corner time and to his room without diner.
Robert Nett again His tribe get lied and killed, a place that gives him hope get nuked, a realisation that he became what he hate the most (a liar to a tribe), and he also want to nuked the ncr or legion just like maybe he want to be seen evil because he already felt all of that and want to "share" the feeling he had. Hey at least he got the courier to cover his ass
Doesn't make me (or my courier) sympathise with him in the slightest. I call those people, who want to share their world-weariness by mass murder terrorists. They are no brooding anti-heroes with dark backstories. Just jerks who want the world to burn. From a storytelling standpoint my issue with the characters writing was that he was to easily convinced of his false way and just give in, which would imply that he was intelligent and reasonable, but the same moment didn't realise the bullshit he was talking himself. This doesn't add up in my opinion. Either he is crazy (a real possibility given his backstory) - but then he wouldn't just go 'Oh, didn't think about that. OK. Thank you for pointing out my small blunder here... Hehe, and... y'know, no hard feelings. By the way, there is a horde of zombies about to come her... I placed them somehow as a insurance in case you kill me.' Or he is really embarrassing stupid. Then he would go like above.
Given how this guy is obsessed with adding complexity to EVERYTHING he says, his motivation can be literally anything. For all I know, he could be doing this because he's sexually attracted to the Courier, and this is his revenge for being rejected
He acknowledges the effectiveness of it. He is bitter because the courier destroyed The Divide when Ulysses looked to make it his home. The courier destroyed it with missiles and it worked a charm so thats why he wants to do it. It's not confusing so...
@@xisckillerx7578 The confusing part is why Ulysses is using a cowardly method but judges others for the same. He judges the courier for using missiles, calling them cowardly, and yet resorts to them himself just bc he knows they are effective. Is he admitting to being a coward?
Such a powerful character, his entire personailty and reasoning left a mark on me. Really unique and inspiring. One of my all time favourite characters in video games.
I wish the DLC characters were full companions and not temporary. The raw justice of Ulysses and Joshua going back to back on the Dam would be too beautiful. Joshua extinguishing ceasar the same way he tried to kill Joshua and Ulysses throwing his flagpole like a spear into Lanius' chest as he tells the tale of the Twisted Hairs.
Someone make a fanfiction of this because I am not the best of writers. Because that is going to be absolutely BUSSIN A FAN COMIC PLEASW FANFIC. Someone please make it happen
I admit on my first play through. I killed Ulysses because he was so willing to nuke others. On a different playthrough I talked him out of it and let ED-E be destroyed, I was amazed at the conversations he had. His character is more thoroughly detailed and can I say 'deeper' than many others in the game. I salute Roger Cross who voiced the character.
*Courier dragging a tied up Ulysses through the desert while E:DE plays tapes of rambling nothings* "How does it feel Ulysses?!" *CLAP* "HOW." *CLAP* "DOES." *CLAP* "IT." *CLAP* "FEEL?"
For real, as I said towards the beginning of Ox's Lonesome Road series; for a guy who talks so much he doesn't really say much of anything. He bitches out the courier for just trying to survive and plays the victim all while blabbering pseudo philosophical nonsense in that annoying droning voice that made me want to shove a mini nuke up his nether regions. He also makes a big deal about symbols and how they're meaningless and how we should stop trying to return to the way things were all while wearing an American flag as a cape and painting the symbol of the circle of stars around the bigger star; which was a major part of the flag in pre war America.
I really enjoy Ulysses, he's probably the best character I've ever seen in a fallout game because he's exactly like the player, he's making decisions and it's almost as if he was playing the game, he forms opinions over topics instead of just doing something for a pre existing ideal he had, he changed and that makes him a person and not just a character, I love the way he speaks and that might be because english isn't my first language, I didn't think about it prior to seeing this video but it does happen to me sometimes, the way he speaks resonates with me, I understand why he does it and exactly what he means, to me he was extremely direct when talking to the courier now I understand it's probably from my walk of life. Ulysses was quick to pull the trigger but that does not make him a bad person he simply already knows what's going to happen, the video makes a case for "he can't know" but that's actually wrong, because the NCR and the legion are already repeating old world mistakes, the NCR has no issues using bombs to destroy it's enemies just like they did with the divide, history repeats itself and Ulysses saw this, that's exactly what his scar is.
I always believed that the grave we find at Ulysses' home in the Mojave was a symbolic thing. We know how the man loves his symbols. I thought it may show his discarding of his Legion life.
I think Ulysses and Jericho are pretty similar. They’ve both lived in a certain way for so long, they just don’t know how to think logically or have any other kind of reasoning. The biggest different is Jericho isn’t genocidal, and you can reason with Ulysses. (For Jericho you just have to stay bad)
Hello Ike fine I just wanted to say thank you so much for your videos I am a blind individual and I have been waiting so long for someone to make more videos that include all the dialogue in this way you allow me to understand the story of fall out
The dots on the F and J keys (on most keyboards) can be used to type blind. Learning where the keys are might be harder, and I'm not fully educated on how visually impaired people access the internet easily, but I know there are ways. Text to speech and speech to text, as well. Speaking into a microphone may also leave small errors that can't easily be fixed without seeing them. Like "Ike" might be "Ox"? Speculation. Also some speech-to-text programs don't have good grammar systems. I used speech-to-text in school, so I know that adding punctuation can be difficult.
Katelyn Siple I went to a random video about my favorite character, looking for usual info, but I found you. You kind of returned my hope for humanity for a few minutes
I always wondered why a unique weapon (Chopper) was in such a seemingly insignificant place. Now I know it's because, it was supposed to be much more integral to the story of the player. Wow. I feel bad now, cuz i always sell Chopper to the merchants who spawn near by, to be ambushed by legion. Now I kinda want to make Wolfhorn Ranch a sort of player home, to honor Ulysses. Hmm.
ncr veteran ranger I know it makes sense for its location, but still, most of the unique weapons have an equally unique place to be found, or a unique person to loot it from. Where as Chopper, if you have no idea of the intended significance of the ranch, just seems like it was put there. For no discernable reason, other than to have a unique Cleaver. The same couod be said for *That Gun *. It's also a weapon in a place where it doesn't really fit. But it's a fine weapon to start with as well, given that, I believe, it is the highest per bullet damage for 5.56 ammo. But *That Gun* makes sense in the Fallout world, because it was a weapon based on the .223 pistols of the first fallout games. But Chopper isn't a weapon made with any sort of reference in mind(at lesst not blatantly obvious) , there is not quest tied to it, there is no NPC who wields it. It's just there. So in a game where many unique items have a story tied directly to them, it seemed out of place. But now, with the story of Ulysses tied INdirectly to it, it sort of feels justified to have it. Sure it's not an extraordinary weapons compared to most, but it's still worth noting. ( -also, I typically don't make melee builds, so it kinda felt useless to me and so I just sold it for a few hundred caps whenever I got it- )
Joshy Nice nice answer! I also dont like melee builds, i am currently using a more cowboy-ish character, i use the lucky revolver, an anti-materiel rifle, and maria, and about the chopper, you are very right indeed, for maria you need to kill benny, wich is tied to a quest, that is very well-crafted argument right there...
Even when I try to go for melee builds, I never really keep Chopper around, I stick with Chance's knife until I get the bigger and better weapons later on.
That farm was Ulysess's home? I always thought it was just a settlememt that was destroyed by raiders like the nearby ranch (on a nearby ranch, if you enter it a scripted event occurs amd raiders attack you.)
@John Smith Not exactly, only raider gang I believe NCR directly caused was the Powder Gangers, Vipers and Jackals originated from the same Vault that Khans and NCR came from
@John Smith The loading screens say Vipers and Jackals are just a fragment of what they used to be, because the NCR brutalized them, they fled to Mojave because NCR do not have full control of the area yet, and Fiends are a bigger threat
An honest and wise analysis of an honest and wise character, great job oxhorn. But i was hoping you would also talk about his final message in the holotape.
Hiazro Kailindo Well, he is right about the Salad legion and a crippled bear. NCR is simply weak and can not build a normal world they are aiming for, Legion soon will destroy itself and fall apart when NCR is destroyed (if they are)
The ncr and legion are to corrupted and bad faction that's why I chose independent vegas and I'm a big believer and supporter of the followers of the apocalypse they are the true faction that can help the people
"Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future." This quote by JFK, in my opinion, perfectly sums up the logic Ulysses fails to understand. That is, until the final confrontation with the Courier.
Ahhhhhh I've been waiting for this since you started your LR videos. He's definitely one of the most interesting characters I've met playing Fallout, from his mindset to the way he sounds and presents himself. It would be interesting to see how'd he react to things as a legit companion (ik there's a mod for it but I mean LEGIT companion).
The truth is Ulysses is a very interesting character how he sees the world shows that he is having deep troubles with his mental ability but hes not insane hes actually at a very unique way of looking at the world and to what you talk about The world and riddles is actually pretty Interesting but he doesn't a very pessimistic view and hes very pro legion the fact of matter is he is right about some of the actions against the are took and he is right in a way in the Mojave they overextended themselves and they did pretty much cut themselves but you also to look at the way he sees it is from of the lesions point of view and that only gives you half the story over all I think he was a very interesting character to put in the DLC but he Wrong in the way he wants to fix the world nuking innocent people Is not gonna fix anything expression Li since it would just bring death destruction and when he talks about to divide yet was a very horrible tragedy because a divide could have been a new settlement a new way of life But that tragedy does not give him the right to stroyer a whole nation Except for dry Wells because they are legion and no matter what you say the legion is evil in a can of deserve it because well they're evil so over all elyssees a very interesting character but the way he sees the world is very Childish and immature I know the tragedy broke him with its still overall doesn't give him the right so over all I can say an interesting character a boring look at the world
I think these are my fav Ox vids. Dissecting the morality of the choices we are presented with is not only thought provoking but also applicable to our current world. I.e. his rebuke of the ends justify the means philosophy. Thanks for your work, Ox!
Ulysses is a very interesting character. I'm very intrigued by him and he is definitely up there in terms of favorite characters for me, but I will admit that his outlook on the world is...cynical? I can't...find the right words for it. But yeah...he'd be an interesting history teacher. XD
The way that lonesome road ties together all of the at first seemingly separate DLCs and recontextuwlizes much of the main story in the base game is absolutely brilliant. It makes Ulysses this ominous presence throughout the rest of the game that you didn’t even know was there the whole time and after playing lonesome road the next time you play the base game it feels very different. You now know that Ulysses is constantly behind you, watching your moves, judging your decisions and pulling strings and setting up scenarios for you to find yourself in. If almost make him the primary antagonist of the entire game. And if you don’t play lonesome road or pay close attention to it, you wouldn’t even know it. Such good writing. Obsidians writers know how to utilize game design to tell a unique story much better than Bethesda’s main studio writers. It’s hard to even compare they’re on such a drastically different level.
Caesar wasn’t from New Cannan! He was NCR! Joshua Graham was a New Cannanite. That’s why Caesar wanted them gone. Also, maybe it was me who misunderstood, but I always thought the “87th tribe” was the twisted hairs, but they were never truly inducted or counted towards the tribes Caesar conquered. The 87th tribe being the Leigon itself makes way more sense though.
All these years I’ve been playing New Vegas and I always knew that Wolfhorn Ranch had some kind of backstory to it, I never would’ve guessed that it was Ulysses’ home.
People think he's long winded, and yeah he is. But also consider he is the only person in this whole DLC. Homie has to carry HOURS of content mostly by himself which is super admirable in my opinion.
Ulysses is someone who FINALLY gets me! But at the same time he doesn't. I love the man and his think tank quote. "Who are you that do not know your history?"
This video is amazing! It really makes you think about accepted truths on things like wanting to have things reset and how experiences can change people. Keep up the great work!
In other words, Ulysses was ready to throw out the baby with the bathwater. He has so fueled by hubris that he rushed to judgement on nations that hadn't been fully tested by neither time nor adversity. He was willing to commence with a fire sale ("EVERYTHING MUST GO!") because he wasn't patient enough to see what either of this countries are able to handle what the ebb of history play out its hand. (I've been reading some of the Wheel of Time series, the first book anyway, and I may have this coloring my assessment.) I'm not sure, even with Ulysses very thoughtful and introspective nature, he had ever considered the logistics and consequences of his actions. I've stated this before, but his mindsrt reminds me of an abuser, blaming others for his own faults, his own failings. After the last confrontation with him, my assessment has only a slight amendment: I may not be a psychiatrist or psychologist, but a lot of Ulysses dialogue screams to me of a mind suffering a God or Jesus Complex, and maybe other delusions of grandeur. Ohdeboi, Xerxes and his father would have quite the time speaking with him…
I loved Ulysses character. Sure, ppl might be 'long winded' to some, but I appreciated his thoughtful character that was so delightfully flawed in his hypocrisy yet still trying an answer to it all.... even if it meant being proved wrong. As for his solution? Well, I can't say it's correct or not short sighted, but he's coming from a place colored by tragedy and where the answer he saw also involved a nuke going off. That is sure to leave an impression if you're trying to look for answers you think is going to work, regardless of the circumstances that led to it on the other side. When ppl are as traumatized and guilt ridden as he is, on top of wanting a simple answer he can grasp, then yeah... I can see why he'd think the way he did. There's also no denying that he certainly thinks highly of himself. Biut, I think a LOT of that has to do with him trying desperately to convince himself more than anyone else because, just like everything else he's done, I don't think he fully believed he was making the right or wrong choice until it was too late and he saw the consequences of those choices. And, when a LOT of those consequences are bad.... well, can you blame him for thinking that he can coming up with the 'best and simplest' solution when the answer seems like it's right there and you've seen an example of it already? That's why he's our foil in every possible way that matters. Like right down to the fact that he speaks and has a lot to say. In fact, everything he does in Lonesome Road is to set up a situation for us to meet and get us to make the final decision bc, in the end, I don't think he was sure that nuking them was the right thing. After all, he called us out just to talk and let the dice roll where they may one final time. I think 'that' was the answer he was looking truly looking for with his idea of nuking both the NCR and Legion. He understood, in his heart of hearts, that he needed to know for sure if what he was doing 'was' the right answer. And who better to ask than the person who showed him the path in the first place, who was like him in every way that mattered.
As a wise man once said, "We all go through periods of darkness. In such times, we can turn to the Lord, but it's good to have friends... When the walls come tumbling down, when you lose everything you have, you always have family. And your family always has tribe." Ulysses has no friends or family, not after the legion killed his tribe. And after all he's seen and done, I'm sure he no longer has a god he can believe in either. He's a man who's lost everything, a ship in a storm with no port to call home. Nuking one place is bad enough, let alone two, but to him there's no alternatives because he's watched them all burn in front of him. I lied earlier when I said Ulysses has nothing, because he does have one thing left, his anger. And so he plans to unleash that anger on the legion, who has destroyed so much history and so many ways of life, and on the NCR, who is corrupt and cares far less for the little man that they let show. He's lost so much he'd rather cling to this anger, which blinds him, rather than realize what the best thing to do is. The greatest thing we can do isn't seek vengance, or make a legacy of conquest, or destroy everything that's left. The greatest thing you can do is learn to let go.
Ulysses strikes me as a very bitter, very scarred man. Mainly he seems, to me at least, to have at one point been a believer in the "just-world fallacy." He's the kind of person who needs to see meaning in everything, needs there to be purpose behind the actions of his past, because the other alternative is that everything he's gone through has been for nothing, and that terrible things can just happen for no reason. People who buy into the just-world hypothesis believe that the world is an inherently _fair_ if not a necessarily _good_ place, and if bad things do happen, then they must have happened for a reason. Ulysses sees all his woes-- the destruction of the Twisted Hairs, his discovery of Hoover Dam, the Divide, the White-Legs and New Canaan, as serving a purpose. He views these events as happening to teach him a lesson, to impart the wisdom of history. He tries to find meaning in these lessons, so that he can validate and understand why they happened. His plans, to ultimately destroy the NCR and the Legion, are the natural conclusion to these lessons in his mind. If his own tribe can be destroyed by one man's lies (Vulpes) and New Canaan, a tribe so good Ulysses said it didn't deserve to be stuck in the Wasteland, can be destroyed by one man's hate (Caesar) then the two nations who are objectively worse than them (NCR and the Legion) _SHOULD_ be destroyed by one man (Ulysses). Your finale with Ulysses, when you're talking him down, you're making him realize that just because bad things _have_ happened, doesn't mean he should _make_ bad things happen. You're breaking his belief in the just-world hypothesis, and forcing him to accept a view of the real world. That's why when you speak to him again in Hopesville, he seems so downtrodden and listless. He's had his entire worldview destroyed, and needs to find a new one.
Graham murders a bunch of people, fails, gets betrayed, realizes the error of his ways, and earnestly tries to make amends. Ulysses murders a bunch of people, sees a bunch of people get killed by accident, broods, and comes to the conclusion that the best course of action is to murder even more people on purpose. Graham>Ulysses
Everybody loves bacon. Graham was covered in pitch from head to toe, lit on fire (some serious heat there), and thrown into the deepest part of the Grand Canyon. He survives not only the severe burns that'd kill anyone and anything, but he also didn't scream once during the ordeal. He got up and walked out of there even though 3rd degree burns should be the least of his concerns (high drop into a canyon would spell doom on its own let alone WHILE ON FIRE). Ulysses survived a nuclear apocalypse in the Divide but those missiles detonated underground, ripping it all apart and sent him plummeting. The radiation or invisible fires as well as the drop showed they didn't kill everyone (seeing as Marked Men, robots, and death claws seemed to do just fine). That crispy boi also expected Ulysses to come for him. He wasn't afraid, though I would imagine it could turn into a stalemate since both are essential characters. Plus, a drive and belief behind a man as Ulysses states himself can make the difference. Graham stands to protect the inhabitants of Zion Canyon, if Ulysses came for him, it would be him alone vs Graham and the strength of Zion Canyon. I love both characters, I would put my mentats on Graham for his high tolerance of pain, motivation, redemption, and beliefs.
I always thought the white legs adopted Ulysses hairstyle as a way to show respect to someone they viewed as a mentor or teacher. I don't think it was motivated by their desire to enter the legion, since a different hairstyle wouldn't change the legions opinion of them.
Ulysses seems to spend a lot of time and words convincing the Courier of how wrong and short-sighted they are/have been. i really wish he'd take a moment to shut up and be a little more introspective. Ulysses is, at his core, evil. he has to be, he joined the Legion... killed for them, set people up to be killed. Ulysses needs to remember that every time you point your finger at someone you have 3 fingers pointing back at you.
Ulysses did a lot of horrible things and is a bit hypocritical, but that doesn't make him evil. If Ulysses was evil, he wouldn't have regretted the things he's done. He's shows remorse for what he's done and has admitted that the legion would ultimately fail. He expressed regret that he ultimately caused the war for Hoover Dam and arming the white legs and tried to leave it all. He's done a lot of horrible things but he isn't evil
@@MrDerekdef34 People that have done a lot of horrible things tend to be considered evil... He's not evil? Because he regrets doing evil things? Right, so after he regrets doing evil things, he then decides to launch nuclear missiles that will decimate an entire nation of people. That doesn't sound like an evil person at all...
Kind of a poorly-constructed point overall; Ulysses after all was forcibly assimilated into the Legion, as were almost all of the Legionaries. Everything he did after could easily be justified since it was likely that those he killed were from the orders of Caesar; the Legion is a military society, and people die in wars (since we have no evidence to the contrary that is the answer we are left with.) The Courier is no better by your standards, even if you play a diplomatic run, you will have killed many people for your flag just as Ulysses had. I'm not defending Ulysses' plans in the Divide, what he did was an act of vengeance and spite, his words when you get down to it were the ravings of a pained man looking to both destroy his enemy in flesh and spirit as he was. However, even if the Courier were taken out of the equation after the events of the Divided, one could see the value of the nuclear bombs in Ulysses temple, one could see the value in the destruction of The Legion and/or NCR as both factions are flawed, and as long as they are at 'superpower' status, other nations of the future have no chance to maintain independence long enough to bring new and better ideas to the table.
Ulysses the Courier: - One of THE Most Well-Written Video Game Characters in video-game history. Frankly: I admire Ulysses; just as much as I admire the Courier. Each is an Honourable Human Being, each in their own way. Where Ulysses the Courier wins-out is that he is (perhaps necessarily) introspective, internally-thoughtful, perhaps; self-questioning. THIS: where extremely few characters, in literature, movies, or video-games, ever are; or ever have been. Whoever wrote the Ulysses the Courier character has achieved a landmark in human literary history. For: in Ulysses the Courier, Mankind has the opportunity to bear witness to that which Humanity truly can both redeem itself by, and become. __ There remains much more I could here say (write); but I'll forebear. Those who comprehend that to which I here, and above, allude; already Understand. __ Kind and Respectful Regards, Uyraell, NZ.
I feel like Ulysses wanted the courier to question their final move at hoover dam as his goal. There is a lot of dialog by Ulysses that paints the courier as someone who also impacts history without realizing it. Almost like he doesn't want you to make the same mistake he did.
Just a thought, but do we know for sure, or to what extent China was nuked like Pre-war America? I haven't seen much evidence to say that they received very much of a nuking, just that there has been radio silence between the two nations. All I've heard is that not all of the Chinese nukes fired and that you have the option to launch a nuke to China in FO3, that's pretty much it. (Was thinking that the next fallout could be interesting, if done from the Chinese perspective)
Septlaxer Gaming operation anchorage (the dlc) should have been told from the perpective of the chinese ground troops, when they conquered the oil supply, now that would have been cool.
Septlaxer Gaming Well, judging by the fact that the US launched an invasion and deployed the US Army and USMC in mainland China and was winning, I'd say that China was fucked, even without the bombs. I recall that it was said somewhere in one of the Fallout titles, that "China was bombed back to the Stone Age".
Ulysses is great character with awesome and very interesting story. Obsidian has the talent to create good characters with a well-written story.The lonesome road is a very mature dlc that requires intellectual effort to understand the plot well. Obsidian I love you for your ideas.
For those who don't know, "Ulysses" is the Romanized version of the name "Odysseus" from Homer's Odyssey, a tragic hero who's the only one left at the end of a long, perilous, lonesome journey. Fittingly, Ulysses chose the Romanized version of the name courtesy of his time w/ the Legion.
I'm in the I Love Ulysses camp. Have since the first time I played New Vegas and still do. Your series on this DLC has been even more enlightening for me beyond what I was able to uncover. And I loved this synopsis of him. Thanks for what you do, Ox! You're the best!
Ulysses talks the way he does because that's what brooding poetes do. He's not ordering from McDonald's, he's trying to instill in you the way he feels while still moving the conversation along. He's definitely long winded, but that's more of a problem with game pacing than anything.
I believe that Ulysses is possibly the most well constructed character in the Fallout Universe. His ideals, his tone and his messages are what make Ulysses a very unique character. He is far above any companion or NPC in Fallout New Vegas, with possibly Mr. House and Marcus the Super Mutant being on a similar level as him, in regards to character complexity. Ulysses is not as educated as someone that has lived before the Great War, however he has shown sparks of intuition through his words and experiences that has molded him into a powerful character. Joshua Graham, Elijah, Dean Domino and the Think Tank (including Dr. Mobius) are also great examples of characters who may also match up to Ulysses as characters that are powerful through speech. Though this may be the case, Ulysses has known or even met all of them (excluding Dean Domino) and has left a mark on each of those characters in some way. This shows how powerful he is through his voice and all the while gaining knowledge that will help shape his personality even more. Overall, he shows himself to be a character who has risen himself to a higher platform in which not many characters are able to do.
I appreciate the way you are able to breath life in to the narrative. Your insights are much more fleshed out than my own, and you’ve inspired me to do yet another run through of fo:nv. Thank you.
It's funny, I came here not just to learn about Ulysses and hear the full story (I completed all the other DLC except and found all the hidden Ulysses references before I start Lonesome Road) but learn why everyone says Ulysses lived in Wolfhorn Ranch even though there's absolutely no hints he lived there, but now I don't have to. Thanks!
I do not completely disagree with Ulysses, and I do think that he is right in how he thinks, but this video brings a lot of good points and I can't say anything without conflict and some contradiction, but here's how I see it. The NCR and Caesar's Legion are evil factions, and with that I mean their government and rulers, and this is a natural part of humanity. Everyone who gains strength and influence will use the power they have against lesser and weaker people, and most will be seen as evil for it. Almost every faction in the Fallout universe behaves that way, except maybe the followers of the apocalypse, but even their good deeds can cause damage, simply because the knowledge they share can be used for evil, but I digress. The reason the divide is destroyed was because of a device the NCR wanted to use, which means they knew about those nukes, and I bet they were trying to use them. Who is to say that the NCR wouldn't use these nuclear missiles for their own purposes? Who is to say the legion wouldn't use those nukes? Maybe the legion would consider it cowardly to use the missiles, and maybe they would use them as a last resort like the old world did. For the courier and Ulysses to have control over these missiles, for two people to have the power to decide the fate of so many humans, well. I believe that is too much power for just two people, so there is no way for it to be fair, but Ulysses at least has made those conclusions from his own experience, not out of bias. The courier will always be biased because its the player that decides, and the players have their own thoughts and opinions, many which can be biased and will either nuke one faction or both of them. All other factions would use the missiles for their own dominance, so they cannot be trusted with them. As for innocent people, well. Innocent people and those unrelated will always be the first to suffer from wars, when the titans of power clash against each other. This has always been the case and it will never change. You can destroy the institute for the greater good because they are evil, but aren't you killing innocent people? You can sound the evacuation alarm before destroying the institute, but aren't you destroying their home, culture and material possessions? Many of those people were born in the institute and have nothing outside, but they are forced to evacuate because you decide they must be destroyed, all of that because the leadership is evil. You can destroy Maxson's brotherhood because they are evil, but you'd be killing children who can be considered innocent and being brainwashed. They are countless examples like that in which the innocent suffer because of the stronger powers and it is not a very relevant point to use as an argument in my opinion. The nuclear missiles are there, Ulysses points them at the NCR and the legion, and the courier can change their parameters. The best thing of course is that they are not launched. If we are honest, nobody should have that power in their hands, especially not a single person or two people, let alone a faction. These old relics of destruction should be put to rest and slumber eternally, but the fact that Ulysses has control of them means he attained the right to use them, but even then, he waited for the courier to meet up with him, which makes me raise a few questions. Did Ulysses really need the courier to deliver ED-E to the launch site? Or did he deliberately make things go that way for the courier to come to him? When the game ends he goes alone throughout the entire divide to the starting point. He left all those holotapes scattered throughout the divide. Is he really incapable of getting that eyebot on his own, despite living in the divide for a while? I feel like his mind was set, but that he also believed that he alone should not have a right to make a decision, so maybe he orchestrated things to lead the one person whose opinion matters to him into that place, to stop him if he is wrong, or if he is stronger, or to agree with him, or to simply carry this burden with or without him. I think that in the end, despite everything he said, Ulysses hid things from the courier, and we may never know all his thoughts. If anything, he looks like a broken spirit to me, a broken spirit who has seen too much. There is too much to think about, but the video was excellent nonetheless.
Honestly I think a lot of people with an immature sense of morality think that all human suffering somehow makes any action immoral. Oxhorn kindof strikes me as someone with a rather pedantic white knight view of the wasteland. What if "innocent" people *should* be nuked? The only argument people seem to have is "but thats wrong" with no actual justification or reasoning. Daoism is not pacifistic for this very reason. Things happen for a reason. Good and evil are for children, certainly not the fate of nations.
So this is an old video and no one is probably going to see this. But in regards to ulyesses' speech patterns Navajo is a short winded language but very descriptive. Everything is more symbolism than straight words.
Yeeeeees the profile on Ulysses stayed up all night to see this😀😁. Its 3am. Love the videos and the songs. Ulysses is a harmed soul damaged by his past.
Question. On the High Road, the courier finds the "Survivor's Footlocker" in a truck. It's a little out there, but is this where the Survivalist came through to get back to his family home in Salt Lake City?
just wanted to say thanks for making fallout all the more enjoyable. Videos like these go a long way towards adding context and perspective to these games.
And about the grave I said before I think it was a way for him to bury the past to try to forget it Is not the 1st time we've seen someone get rid of a weapon that had history that gauntlet miter a modded him everything he did I want to bury it you want to forget it and move on with his life That would make most sense because In a way it's symbolize a death
It ABSOLUTELY was carelessness that destroyed the Divide. Yeah Ulysses made mistakes too, but those were mistakes he made based on things he truly believed. The courier often times did things just to see what would happen. And we prove it over and over again. We set off the Nuke to gain access to push the story forward, we activate mini nukes to get at places that are hidden from us, we bring Ed-E straight to Ulysses without even knowing what the consequences would be. And thats just in that one DLC. Imagine all of the decisions the courier has made over the course of the game just because they could. That's why the only time you can talk him down, aside from a 90 speech check, is to have high reputation with a faction. Because to him at least youre showing you believed in something. Otherwise all of the death and destruction really was at your own whim. And thats the thing you taught him : Ideals and Symbols are strong, but not as strong as the person with the audacity to tear them down. He isnt blaming you so much as holding you accountable for your actions, the fact that youve done so much without really meaning to doesnt make your actions less impactful. Think about it. How many times did he tell you "You can always go home courier." and yet you went forward anyway. Ultimately, we say that Ulysses doesnt have the right to act as judge, jury and executioner of the Mohave, but thats exactly what the courier does on a daily basis. They go about exacting whatever brand of justice they deem is right and that can look very different depending on the person manning the controls. You decide what faction takes over the Mohave, if any. You decide if you and Father Elijah destroy the Mohave. You decide whether to side with Dr Klein or Dr Mobius. And all of those actions shape the way the Mohave develops. I think thats on purpose. Ulysses is pointing out that he's just doing what you do all the time. Making an end to things.
Part of me is really tempted to imagine what Ulysses would think of the various towns and factions further east in the Capital Wasteland or the Commonwealth. In particular, I feel some highlights could be: -Megaton, in particular the Children of Atom (which make him wonder why these people choose to worship the invisible fire), or Moira Brown and her Wasteland Survival Guide -Rivet City, where I feel he could have a fun conversation with Abraham Washington and his preserved American relics -The Republic of Dave (which feels like it might make him wonder if Dave merely plays at building a nation) -Maybe a visit to Galaxy News Radio and Three Dog? -Tenpenny Tower, (with maybe a reflection that if Caesar descended upon this place, these people would be in for a _massive_ rude awakening). -Little Lamplight Or even with the Commonwealth factions. -Maybe disgust with the Brotherhood hiding away on the Prydwen, where nobody would be able to reach them -Maybe contempt for the Institute because of their inactivity or them wasting their time on making machines that play at being human -Maybe disappointment with the Railroad because of their excessive regard for the aforementioned machines that only pretend to be human -Maybe curiosity at how an organisation like the Minutemen can hold so much hope of protecting the Commonwealth when they're only at a tiny faction of their original strength.
It’s hard to put into words but after finally meeting with him and fighting along side him... its as if he just needed someone to show him the right path. He wanted to be wrong but couldn’t find anything or anyone to convince him otherwise. Epic DLC #NVBestFO
I think in the Divide, Ulysses saw the synthesis that Caesar had been talking about when he spoke of hegelian dialectics. What Caesar think. he will do by conquering the NCR. From what Ulysses tells us The divide seems to be an up-and-coming nation that had the best traits from both the Legion and the NCR with none of their flaws.
I always hated that rv in the high road! In my first playthrough, I did an unarmed/melee build, and the high road was always where I got killed the most. My current build is an stealth sniper/shotgun build, and it has been a breeze since many of the marked men are equipped with antimaterial rifles and riot shotguns, making lonesome road not nearly as difficult, even at level 45. Also, my theory as to who's in the grave is nobody. Maybe it's a place where he put his past behind him, burying his own past, killing it. And I just wanna let you know that you're my favorite fallout UA-camr! I've watched all of your new Vegas series, and they've helped me find things in the dlc that I wouldn't usually find or look for. Keep up the fantastic work!
When i first played the Lonesome Road DLC i was amazed by the story told by the little stories here and there by Ulysses of what happened in the events of "The Divide" and how it was once prosper and living as a community since the Courier such as "Yourself" but you the Courier carried a package which awoken the Missiles from the Silo beneath the Divide and Ulysses saw the bombs fell onto the Divide and saw everything he loved being destroyed and he was nearly dead but of course how the robots of The Divide saved him. Ulysses tbh is truly one of the most best characters in Fallout History, his voice actor that voiced him matched his own character and his wisdom he speaks from how he was part of the Legion but as an undercover agent as a courier just like you. I honestly dont think there is no other character that can tell such a deep backstory of what happened. im just glad there was a mod that let me have him as a companion with his unique dialogue.
Get the Song Here: iTunes: oxhorn.it/lonesome-road-itunes
Apple Music: oxhorn.it/lonesome-road-apple-music
(Spotify & more coming soon!)
Why did you have a pedometer in your inventory?
Oxhorn remember when you said who shot the first nuke what about China's policy of only launching if someone else launches their nukes
i think you missed this at certain points,and this is my opinion:yes,it's arrogance,yes he thinks a lot of his own ideas,but i also think it's not just arrogance fueling his words and actions,i think it's hurt,i think it's anger,i think,partially,he's lashing out,remember he says he's not angry at your/blaming you for what you *did* but for what you made him *see.* as far as the courier goes,i think it's a lot of that clouding his judgement.
Oxhorn Well ill give what i think a shot. Ulysses is correct both nations are not what we need but they can become it. The issue with the Ncr is it has a easy time of it and expanded out of control causing the corruption to take root. The legion on the other hand has the issue of there being no real national identity they are just following the man at the top out of fear or respect. The way to solve this isn't to kill them both but make them stop and reform themselves into what they believe they are. Make Vegas a city state a trade hub between the west and east keep there expansion and keep peace. We have built a nation before we can do it again
You made a mistake. Ceasar did not come from New Canaan. Joshua Graham came from New Canaan - Caesar was a Follower of the Apocalypse. The reason why Ceasar wants to destroy New Canaan was to spite Joshua Graham or to bury his memory, not his own. That's the reason why Caesar spares the Followers if he takes over New Vegas... he still has sympathy for the Followers even after long been away from them.
In my opinion, Ulysses is the second main character of the game. The Courier represents the West and him the East
Ulysses was originally supposed to be a companion you could recruit. He'd have been the only companion who was more sympathetic to the Legion, and would have provided lot of insight into that faction. Thanks to time constraints (thanks Bethesda) Obsidian had to scrap that.
That actually sucks to hear as this dude would have been a beast of a companion. I remember the first time I fought him I thought I was gonna destroy him simply with everything new I had found in the divide. It didn’t quite work out like that though. I honestly gained more respect for him after I had fought him.
well ulysses actually dislikes both since the legion took his history and absorbed it under their flag and symbol
@@hexcellerateofficial there is actually a mod with full dialogue support for Ulysses, i love the fact you can have him as a companion since he is such a mysteries yet unique character. he speaks of wisdom of truth of what happened in the divide and what the courier such as you the player did before the events of u even playing the game first. he even helps you with in the last main mission in the battle of hoover dam.
Unless your Courier does not come from the west. It's unlikely your Courier comes from NCR anyways given how little they know of their way of life. But ultimately it's the player's decision.
I'd like to see Joshua Graham and Ulysses have a chat.
As Above So Below
That’d be... interesting, to say the least
Somehow, your screen name feels fitting for that interaction. Would probably be a badass name for the quest where that happens, but I can't articulate exactly why. As Above, So Below just feels right.
*The Courrier* : [Try to have a normal conversation].
*Joshua* : God gave us life and the life of the creator is our life. The punishment is divine for the impure souls that live in the land of the damned.
*Ulysses* : Bull...Bear...Bull...Bear...Bull...Bull...History...Flags...
The courrier has disconnected.
@@elconflictivo7099 gosh your comments make my day better! I never laugh hard these days, thx! XD
Alexa and siri
"It's said war - war never changes.
Men do, through the roads they walk.
And this road - has reached its end."
I think this is the central message of the Fallout series--at least the western ones. Think it through. Your character is the courier--your road has ended--so your character has changed. This has lots of implications for the remainder of New Vegas. But more broadly, you the player, having played through Fallout have walked a road as well. And Fallout is nothing if not a cautionary tale. You don't spend several hundred hours sifting through ruins and garbage without the unspoken message there leaving some sort of mark. But mostly, I think, men do change through the roads they walk. If war never changes, then the lesson to learn from history is that men can, they do, and even a single individual can change the course of a nation--the vault dweller proved it, the chosen one proved it, and the courier proved it.
Seems like Obsidian's telling us that the world of Fallout, or something like it, isn't inevitable. But it's not in the hands of large governments, but of individuals.
True. You have Ulysses. Someone who has seen the worst of humanity just like the Courier. The lesson is to learn the history of things so you don't repeat them; if one person knows that history, that person can change the course of everything. Ulysses ended up learning the wrong lesson here, though. We cannot be the final arbiters; history always has the last word. Our job as people is to avoid doing something particularly rash.
Nuking entire nations, again, is pretty rash, and the first time was not exactly the smartest thing to do (severe understatement obviously). It left the world the way it is in the Fallout series. Ulysses conveniently forgot this particular facet of history in his rage. That's something else he did not recognize, too. He wasn't firing the missiles because he was right; he was firing the missiles in anger, without real thought behind it. The Courier had to remind Ulysses of that, and the Courier's own past bears out that the packages they deliver don't always mean good tidings will happen in the future, another thing Ulysses forgets as well. 'Don't shoot the messenger', as it were.
In many ways, I think Ulysses' unique past made him ripe for doing something independent of either faction. Yes, he is intelligent, thoughtful, philosophic, but he made the key error of not recognizing his own hypocritical action. War never changes, but people should change. If the games tell us anything, perhaps we should start thinking about our fellow man instead of nations. In Fallout, we have the option of starting over right, or repeating the same fractured past. Nations do as they must, but people need to think about the next generation and making the world better than it was. They can change what a nation does.
The hardest lesson in New Vegas is one Ulysses had yet to learn. Sometimes, letting go is wisest. Whether it is of the past, technologies hidden in far flung places that should stay hidden, what have you, letting go is a much safer option for people. This is the lesson the Courier had learned through many travels, and the Courier can start society over again with those many lessons learned. (It would be interesting to *see* the results of those actions twenty/thirty/forty years down the road however.)
Sean Carroll Yeah. The type of nationalism in Fallout--and it could be any sort of group mentality, from religions to political ideoligies--but the nationalism in America in Fallout was the worst kind. A tribal identity used to trick people into forgetting their humanity, and denying the humanity of others. A symbol crafted, through propaganda, to make people hate enough that they would personally delight in seeing their enemies suffer. An excuse to cultivate and indulge all the darker parts of our nature--for the "greater good", you see. That's the symbol--the flag--that failed. That's the nation that died. Reviving that "America" is as dangerous as waking up a base of ICBMs.
Scott Leneau wow, that's.....that's true!
Ulysses is a holder of history, a personification of the old adage if one does not learn from history...he is a harbinger of that doom. The symbols of his past are destroyed and lost to history, not once but twice. he is a man without a nation standing as an impartial judge to the symbols of new Vegas. being an outside observer of these ideologies, and not immersed within them, he has a unique opportunity to perceive these symbols without bias. how can we change tradition from the inside? his actions although extreme are his ways of wiping the slate clear. If the nations that be refuse to grow, if the people in them refuse to change, then the nation must be torn down to be made anew.
I agree with you this is a final and best way to end the franchise and with Ulysses quote “ War War never changes men do through the roads they walk. And this road... has reached it ended” best way to end the franchise
Oxhorn in New Vegas
"Using nukes is a baaaaad idea"
Oxhorn in Fallout 76
"Today we will explore all the places we can nuke"
Yup
Lol truth
The duality of man
It's not oxhorn's fault
Nukes are ok to use if a bigger nation is deliberately trying to take you over like NCR or legion lol
19:45
I got the impression that Ulysses' problems with communication stems from being too smart yet uneducated; he understands underlying principles and abstractions well enough but doesn't know the precise terminology.
Well, his intelligence in S.P.E.C.I.A.L. stat is set on 10, so I suppose you are correct.
@@WackRusDud All his stats are set to 10
@@quesocoatl21 I know that. Just wanted to point out that you are correct about him being smart.
@@WackRusDud obviously some BS to make him OP, Caesar has 4 INT and is probably the smartest in the game after Mr House
@@maximusd26 his "4" INT is due to the brain tumor (one of the legionaries we get to question or torture back at Camp McCarran could hint at that)
And even if ignore that one, some really stupid people could be very good at something.
(Take agent 47 for example: 'cause of the amount of chromosomes, he can be considered to be a retard. In spite of that, he is the best fucking assassin you could ever get your hands on.)
Could be a similar situation with Caesar.
I always thought that the knots in the braids had literal meaning. There was a native American tribe (I can’t remember which one) that tied knots in lengths of rope/string as a form of written language. Maybe something similar was practiced by the Twisted Hairs, and that’s why Ulysses “got lost trying to read them”.
Lora Elstad thanks for finding that! I think if the hair worn by members of the Twisted Hairs showed their folk stories, or maybe represented personal trials that a member has faced, it would cut so much deeper for Ulysses when the White Legs wore their hair in the style of Ulysses because they took something that had so much meaning and reduced it to a style.
I think Obsidian meant the braiding to be similar to tribal braiding in Africa, where the manner of braids can tell someone's wealth, martial status, family, and accomplishments
I can imagine Quipu would read kinda like Morse code
Hes african American. Theres a good chance he's referring to box braids, a hairstyle with linguistic history going back to US slavery, where people would braid coded messages and maps into their hair.
To be honest, most Tribals in Fallout are mixed races.
Dead Horses being descendants of Germans, Japanese, and American tourists.
I think I have a foot in both parties. Ulysses is an interesting character in that you want to find out more about him, what his history with Courier Six is and what were the events that created the Divide. But on the other hand, he IS long winded and doesn't give you a straight answer.
Not only that, but he blames you for things you had no control over. Did you cause the nukes at Hopeville to detonate? Yes. Did your character do it on purpose? No. I really wish there was a dialogue option to tell Ulysses that 'I got shot in the head! I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED!'
That being said, I agree with the other people in the comments that Ulysses would make a great companion. It would be interesting to hear his dialogue about certain things. I would've liked to see Ulysses show up in Fallout 4. Not as a companion but someone to talk to, maybe he would drop subtle hints about New Vegas.
Ulysses was intended to be one originally, but Obsodian changed their minds. Mods exist to change that, though.
"Who are that do not know their history?"
"A guy with a bullet parked in his frontal lobe, who the fuck are you?"
Witty Joke actually the courier gets shot twice from benny
Courier probably asked Benny "Who's drapes did you get that suit from?"
BadBoyBeta you can download a mod to get him on fallout 4 on nexus mods, although his dialogue is from fallout NV so it's not quite the same thing
If Ulysses was going for the unique NCR armor then I don't blame him.
Lol
I went for both armors, then I got myself pardoned by both sides when I killed Benny.
Pardoned after both are destroyed.
So you're saying Ulysess has power armour training?
@@HolyknightVader999AGGGHHH SMART!!!
"Who are you, who do not know your history?"
I cannot tell you how happy I was that that dialogue option was given to us in our final confrontation with Ulysses. A question asked in anger.
It's just as you said in this video; he saw his tribe destroyed, its people enslaved and killed, its history and culture lost forever. He himself walked with the Legion, absorbing and destroying all that stood in their way. It was he who armed the White Legs and sent them to destroy a nation and a people. How could he, who remembered at the last his lost tribe, who understood in that moment the weight of his folly, still think himself fit to judge the NCR? To judge the Courier for an accident? So obsessed was he with the history of Courier Six and of America that he forgot his own.
I truly loved Ulysses as a character - seldom in a video game have I encountered one more compelling, and I liked the way he spoke. I do not think it was a difficulty with the English language or Western culture that shaped his manner of speaking, but a respect for history, the desire to be perfectly understood and choose words carefully.
But for all his introspection, all his earnestness, for his sorrow, the bitterness and cold rage that he made his shield, he spent too much time in his own head and too little in the real world. The Courier saved him from making a terrible mistake.
Not to mention, he blamed the courier for destroying the divide when it’s not our fault at all. If anything, you should blame whoever ordered the package. You don’t get mad at a mailman for delivering bills 😂
"Who do not know your history" this sounds like a toddler
@@trppstar well the quote is wrong but I see your point
I honestly think Ulysses may be one of the most fascinating characters in this series. While other people may take issue with the backstory the courier is given in Lonesome Road, I think it’s honestly one of the best stories in the entire Fallout series.
Chris Schoenthaler his voice makes the ladies wet themselves
A courier speaks truly
Well from reading the lore on the backstory of the courier fur lonesome road. Turns out what he tells about your self it's your memories lost when you got shot in the head. Talk about being reborn you used to be a monster.
@@ainzooalgownoverlord8913 and yet developers said that themselves that the courier doesn't suffer from amnesia
@Neverlandia thats because vegas sometimes sucks ass when it comes to logic
Couldn't the grave at wolfhorn ranch be where Ulysses buried things from his past. The bladed gauntlet being from when he was with the white legs. It might not be a grave for an actual person but his old self when he was with the legion.
That's a great theory actually, and it fits his poetic character profile
That does make sense and is often overlooked.
The grave might be of someone else too, maybe the person he had to kill to move at wolfhorn
A symbol. Shit, I love this comment.
Considering the news that in fallout 76 that you can launch nukes in the map, do you think that undercuts the messages of Lonesome Road?
Brendan Murphy in our hearts 76 isn’t cannon so it’s fine.
In F76, you launch a nuke to rid Appalachia of the Scorched plague, so the initial intention is good. However, given the side effects of radiation+destruction, as well as the real possibility of Vault 76 residents aiming nukes elsewhere, the overall ending isn't sunshine and rainbows, and can turn evil.
It undercuts a few, but it still proved Ulysses' primary philosophy correct - a single person with enough motivation and resources could change everything.
I've never considered that, it is extremely sad to realize how trivial they made nukes in the fallout series.
@Conn Benn Im going to use an example.
America moved to defcon 2 in the cold war due to the missiles from cuba aimed at the US.
Defcon 1 means nuclear war.
ulysees actually is a confused man
he's just angry because everything he loved destroyed , broken , nuked
i'd be angry too if i was ulysses
Sis Atan İnsan facts
And if given the chance to eradicate the world that give him this suffering single handedly, he will and maybe we also will do it, at least this world is gone if it get worse, at least I give it a try
Maybe... but does that justify to kill thousands of innocent people? I mean - just imagine he has his way and nukes California.
Which one of the families he burns to death or sentences to die in a horrible way due to radiation was in any way shape or form responsible for his fate?
Being 'just angry' is no excuse for commiting attrocities. And whatever happened to him, doesn't entitle him in any way to do the same thing to anyone else.
I - could understand if he was to kill the Courier, after all he brought (unknowing) the device that destroyed his home. I couldn't justify it however. Killing the messenger isn't solving anything.
Ulysses is nothing more than a whining brat believing in his entitlement. 'The world has wronged me, so I have the right to burn it down'.
You know, even if you spare him in the finale, he at least deserves spanking, corner time and to his room without diner.
Robert Nett again His tribe get lied and killed, a place that gives him hope get nuked, a realisation that he became what he hate the most (a liar to a tribe), and he also want to nuked the ncr or legion just like maybe he want to be seen evil because he already felt all of that and want to "share" the feeling he had. Hey at least he got the courier to cover his ass
Doesn't make me (or my courier) sympathise with him in the slightest.
I call those people, who want to share their world-weariness by mass murder terrorists. They are no brooding anti-heroes with dark backstories. Just jerks who want the world to burn.
From a storytelling standpoint my issue with the characters writing was that he was to easily convinced of his false way and just give in, which would imply that he was intelligent and reasonable, but the same moment didn't realise the bullshit he was talking himself.
This doesn't add up in my opinion.
Either he is crazy (a real possibility given his backstory) - but then he wouldn't just go
'Oh, didn't think about that. OK. Thank you for pointing out my small blunder here... Hehe, and... y'know, no hard feelings. By the way, there is a horde of zombies about to come her... I placed them somehow as a insurance in case you kill me.'
Or he is really embarrassing stupid. Then he would go like above.
Ulysses: ugh you are such a coward you used missiles and bombs to kill you enemies
Also Ulysses: time to shoot giant missiles at all of my enemies
Given how this guy is obsessed with adding complexity to EVERYTHING he says, his motivation can be literally anything. For all I know, he could be doing this because he's sexually attracted to the Courier, and this is his revenge for being rejected
Its not that but if that's what you understand
He acknowledges the effectiveness of it. He is bitter because the courier destroyed The Divide when Ulysses looked to make it his home. The courier destroyed it with missiles and it worked a charm so thats why he wants to do it. It's not confusing so...
@@xisckillerx7578 The confusing part is why Ulysses is using a cowardly method but judges others for the same. He judges the courier for using missiles, calling them cowardly, and yet resorts to them himself just bc he knows they are effective. Is he admitting to being a coward?
Such a powerful character, his entire personailty and reasoning left a mark on me. Really unique and inspiring. One of my all time favourite characters in video games.
@Lenia N. Ldzn well put!
I wish the DLC characters were full companions and not temporary. The raw justice of Ulysses and Joshua going back to back on the Dam would be too beautiful.
Joshua extinguishing ceasar the same way he tried to kill Joshua and Ulysses throwing his flagpole like a spear into Lanius' chest as he tells the tale of the Twisted Hairs.
Someone make a fanfiction of this because I am not the best of writers. Because that is going to be absolutely BUSSIN A FAN COMIC PLEASW FANFIC. Someone please make it happen
@psvradamlevine6215 I'll do it
I admit on my first play through. I killed Ulysses because he was so willing to nuke others. On a different playthrough I talked him out of it and let ED-E be destroyed, I was amazed at the conversations he had. His character is more thoroughly detailed and can I say 'deeper' than many others in the game. I salute Roger Cross who voiced the character.
Fun fact: he also voices the Biological Research Station in Old World Blues! Incredibly talented dude with a lovely voice
*Courier dragging a tied up Ulysses through the desert while E:DE plays tapes of rambling nothings*
"How does it feel Ulysses?!"
*CLAP*
"HOW."
*CLAP*
"DOES."
*CLAP*
"IT."
*CLAP*
"FEEL?"
My thoughts exactly 😂
Ulysses: *[screaming in metaphor]*
For real, as I said towards the beginning of Ox's Lonesome Road series; for a guy who talks so much he doesn't really say much of anything. He bitches out the courier for just trying to survive and plays the victim all while blabbering pseudo philosophical nonsense in that annoying droning voice that made me want to shove a mini nuke up his nether regions. He also makes a big deal about symbols and how they're meaningless and how we should stop trying to return to the way things were all while wearing an American flag as a cape and painting the symbol of the circle of stars around the bigger star; which was a major part of the flag in pre war America.
Sean Noel He talks loud, but he doesn’t say much.
He must really hate the courier. I mean marked men, tunnelers, deathclaws and sentrybots. That is overkill.
I really enjoy Ulysses, he's probably the best character I've ever seen in a fallout game because he's exactly like the player, he's making decisions and it's almost as if he was playing the game, he forms opinions over topics instead of just doing something for a pre existing ideal he had, he changed and that makes him a person and not just a character, I love the way he speaks and that might be because english isn't my first language, I didn't think about it prior to seeing this video but it does happen to me sometimes, the way he speaks resonates with me, I understand why he does it and exactly what he means, to me he was extremely direct when talking to the courier now I understand it's probably from my walk of life.
Ulysses was quick to pull the trigger but that does not make him a bad person he simply already knows what's going to happen, the video makes a case for "he can't know" but that's actually wrong, because the NCR and the legion are already repeating old world mistakes, the NCR has no issues using bombs to destroy it's enemies just like they did with the divide, history repeats itself and Ulysses saw this, that's exactly what his scar is.
I always believed that the grave we find at Ulysses' home in the Mojave was a symbolic thing.
We know how the man loves his symbols.
I thought it may show his discarding of his Legion life.
Ulysses is an antagonist done right.
A cool antagonist too.
"Who are you who preffer Loot Videos to History?"
DarthPhantom lol
I got the blackjack duster and was able to talk down Ulysses and most importantly stopped the nukes
WHERE IS MY MUGGY T-SHIRT !
James Garratt we can give you the golden branch, heroes like you deserve it...
I think Ulysses and Jericho are pretty similar. They’ve both lived in a certain way for so long, they just don’t know how to think logically or have any other kind of reasoning. The biggest different is Jericho isn’t genocidal, and you can reason with Ulysses. (For Jericho you just have to stay bad)
Brendan Stepp Jericho is a less nuanced character because Bethesda is bad at writing
@@bushwhackedonvhs Another ignorant one, how coy.
Hello Ike fine I just wanted to say thank you so much for your videos I am a blind individual and I have been waiting so long for someone to make more videos that include all the dialogue in this way you allow me to understand the story of fall out
Katelyn Siple how do you write?
The dots on the F and J keys (on most keyboards) can be used to type blind. Learning where the keys are might be harder, and I'm not fully educated on how visually impaired people access the internet easily, but I know there are ways. Text to speech and speech to text, as well.
Speaking into a microphone may also leave small errors that can't easily be fixed without seeing them. Like "Ike" might be "Ox"? Speculation. Also some speech-to-text programs don't have good grammar systems. I used speech-to-text in school, so I know that adding punctuation can be difficult.
Jasper Neils very interesting :)
I have voiceover on my phone to read things to me and helps me type. But I can also type on computers with the normal keyboard with a similar software
Katelyn Siple I went to a random video about my favorite character, looking for usual info, but I found you. You kind of returned my hope for humanity for a few minutes
He's just a pissed off history teacher
I always wondered why a unique weapon (Chopper) was in such a seemingly insignificant place.
Now I know it's because, it was supposed to be much more integral to the story of the player.
Wow. I feel bad now, cuz i always sell Chopper to the merchants who spawn near by, to be ambushed by legion.
Now I kinda want to make Wolfhorn Ranch a sort of player home, to honor Ulysses.
Hmm.
Joshy Nice the chopper is a pretty good early-melee tbh, but it makes sence for it to be there, is a kitchen cleaver...
ncr veteran ranger I know it makes sense for its location, but still, most of the unique weapons have an equally unique place to be found, or a unique person to loot it from. Where as Chopper, if you have no idea of the intended significance of the ranch, just seems like it was put there. For no discernable reason, other than to have a unique Cleaver.
The same couod be said for *That Gun *.
It's also a weapon in a place where it doesn't really fit. But it's a fine weapon to start with as well, given that, I believe, it is the highest per bullet damage for 5.56 ammo. But *That Gun* makes sense in the Fallout world, because it was a weapon based on the .223 pistols of the first fallout games.
But Chopper isn't a weapon made with any sort of reference in mind(at lesst not blatantly obvious) , there is not quest tied to it, there is no NPC who wields it. It's just there.
So in a game where many unique items have a story tied directly to them, it seemed out of place.
But now, with the story of Ulysses tied INdirectly to it, it sort of feels justified to have it.
Sure it's not an extraordinary weapons compared to most, but it's still worth noting.
( -also, I typically don't make melee builds, so it kinda felt useless to me and so I just sold it for a few hundred caps whenever I got it- )
Joshy Nice nice answer! I also dont like melee builds, i am currently using a more cowboy-ish character, i use the lucky revolver, an anti-materiel rifle, and maria, and about the chopper, you are very right indeed, for maria you need to kill benny, wich is tied to a quest, that is very well-crafted argument right there...
Even when I try to go for melee builds, I never really keep Chopper around, I stick with Chance's knife until I get the bigger and better weapons later on.
my home base every time i play and go straight there after i step out of the doctors house.
Edward Sallow, aka Ceaser, was from the NCR, not New Caanan, he was a Follower of the Apocalypse before founding the Legion
That farm was Ulysess's home? I always thought it was just a settlememt that was destroyed by raiders like the nearby ranch (on a nearby ranch, if you enter it a scripted event occurs amd raiders attack you.)
Asher Ketchup damn jackals and vipers, good thing that we destroyed them...
I went to the place and kill they all with a assult rifle and maybe a riot shotgun and 2 other guns
yeah i kinda thought like that,because hey!,we are in a wasteland dammit it's normal to see raided places(sorry for the bad english).
@John Smith
Not exactly, only raider gang I believe NCR directly caused was the Powder Gangers, Vipers and Jackals originated from the same Vault that Khans and NCR came from
@John Smith
The loading screens say Vipers and Jackals are just a fragment of what they used to be, because the NCR brutalized them, they fled to Mojave because NCR do not have full control of the area yet, and Fiends are a bigger threat
I don't want to set the world on fire....
fallenangel8X I just want to start a flame in your heart
Darth Fenrir489 In my heart I have but one desire...
Jan Wacławik that one is you
Fuck. Why did I read this XD
Uncle Bad-Touch No other will do
An honest and wise analysis of an honest and wise character, great job oxhorn. But i was hoping you would also talk about his final message in the holotape.
Wise? The dude is completely unhinged!
amen
Hiazro Kailindo Well, he is right about the Salad legion and a crippled bear. NCR is simply weak and can not build a normal world they are aiming for, Legion soon will destroy itself and fall apart when NCR is destroyed (if they are)
The ncr and legion are to corrupted and bad faction that's why I chose independent vegas and I'm a big believer and supporter of the followers of the apocalypse they are the true faction that can help the people
Nobody:
Literally nobody:
Oxhorn: *lvl 48* *brings repeater and 44 magnum to divide, doesn’t use stimpacks when fighting deathclaws*
"Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future." This quote by JFK, in my opinion, perfectly sums up the logic Ulysses fails to understand. That is, until the final confrontation with the Courier.
Ahhhhhh I've been waiting for this since you started your LR videos. He's definitely one of the most interesting characters I've met playing Fallout, from his mindset to the way he sounds and presents himself. It would be interesting to see how'd he react to things as a legit companion (ik there's a mod for it but I mean LEGIT companion).
It was actually planned to have him as a companion, but it was scrapped for a reason I don't remember.
i heard the mod can be considered legit since the voice and reaction dialogue taken from unused parts, you can see it with G.E.C.K
Ulysses was meant originally to be a pro-Legion companion, kinda like how Danse was for the Brotherhood in Fallout 4.
The truth is Ulysses is a very interesting character how he sees the world shows that he is having deep troubles with his mental ability but hes not insane hes actually at a very unique way of looking at the world and to what you talk about The world and riddles is actually pretty Interesting but he doesn't a very pessimistic view and hes very pro legion the fact of matter is he is right about some of the actions against the are took and he is right in a way in the Mojave they overextended themselves and they did pretty much cut themselves but you also to look at the way he sees it is from of the lesions point of view and that only gives you half the story over all I think he was a very interesting character to put in the DLC but he Wrong in the way he wants to fix the world nuking innocent people Is not gonna fix anything expression Li since it would just bring death destruction and when he talks about to divide yet was a very horrible tragedy because a divide could have been a new settlement a new way of life But that tragedy does not give him the right to stroyer a whole nation Except for dry Wells because they are legion and no matter what you say the legion is evil in a can of deserve it because well they're evil so over all elyssees a very interesting character but the way he sees the world is very Childish and immature I know the tragedy broke him with its still overall doesn't give him the right so over all I can say an interesting character a boring look at the world
Use comas and so next time. It's hard to read your post.
I think these are my fav Ox vids. Dissecting the morality of the choices we are presented with is not only thought provoking but also applicable to our current world. I.e. his rebuke of the ends justify the means philosophy. Thanks for your work, Ox!
Ulysses and fallout new vegas story comes (in part) from fallout van buran
It's worth reading up on
I would say I see Ulysses as both, frankly. I love and hate him for being brooding and longwinded and crypyic
Romantic Outlaw I thought everyone understood metaphors in gaming?
Ulysses is a very interesting character. I'm very intrigued by him and he is definitely up there in terms of favorite characters for me, but I will admit that his outlook on the world is...cynical? I can't...find the right words for it. But yeah...he'd be an interesting history teacher. XD
Let's be honest here. Most of us launched both those nukes just for the loot, without even considering whether it was right or wrong.
Mr. Soad nope I just nuke Dry Wells
I sacrificed the robot because I didn't want to nuke anything.
I sacrificed ED-E cause I still had his original back in the Mojave. But then I used console commands to open both of the locations up to explore.
nukd 4 loot
Ceasars legion deserved that nuke, they deserved it after all the pain and suffering they caused
The way that lonesome road ties together all of the at first seemingly separate DLCs and recontextuwlizes much of the main story in the base game is absolutely brilliant. It makes Ulysses this ominous presence throughout the rest of the game that you didn’t even know was there the whole time and after playing lonesome road the next time you play the base game it feels very different. You now know that Ulysses is constantly behind you, watching your moves, judging your decisions and pulling strings and setting up scenarios for you to find yourself in. If almost make him the primary antagonist of the entire game. And if you don’t play lonesome road or pay close attention to it, you wouldn’t even know it. Such good writing. Obsidians writers know how to utilize game design to tell a unique story much better than Bethesda’s main studio writers. It’s hard to even compare they’re on such a drastically different level.
Caesar wasn’t from New Cannan! He was NCR! Joshua Graham was a New Cannanite. That’s why Caesar wanted them gone. Also, maybe it was me who misunderstood, but I always thought the “87th tribe” was the twisted hairs, but they were never truly inducted or counted towards the tribes Caesar conquered. The 87th tribe being the Leigon itself makes way more sense though.
“No need for bombs... when hate will do.”
*Chills*
All these years I’ve been playing New Vegas and I always knew that Wolfhorn Ranch had some kind of backstory to it, I never would’ve guessed that it was Ulysses’ home.
Lonesome Road: Best DLC Ever Released
People think he's long winded, and yeah he is. But also consider he is the only person in this whole DLC. Homie has to carry HOURS of content mostly by himself which is super admirable in my opinion.
Based.
The best birthday gift!thank you very much Oxhorn
Ainsley and his spicy meat: Merry Earthday.
Ulysses is someone who FINALLY gets me! But at the same time he doesn't. I love the man and his think tank quote. "Who are you that do not know your history?"
This games story still has me coming back years later, great lore
This video is amazing! It really makes you think about accepted truths on things like wanting to have things reset and how experiences can change people. Keep up the great work!
In other words, Ulysses was ready to throw out the baby with the bathwater. He has so fueled by hubris that he rushed to judgement on nations that hadn't been fully tested by neither time nor adversity. He was willing to commence with a fire sale ("EVERYTHING MUST GO!") because he wasn't patient enough to see what either of this countries are able to handle what the ebb of history play out its hand. (I've been reading some of the Wheel of Time series, the first book anyway, and I may have this coloring my assessment.) I'm not sure, even with Ulysses very thoughtful and introspective nature, he had ever considered the logistics and consequences of his actions. I've stated this before, but his mindsrt reminds me of an abuser, blaming others for his own faults, his own failings. After the last confrontation with him, my assessment has only a slight amendment: I may not be a psychiatrist or psychologist, but a lot of Ulysses dialogue screams to me of a mind suffering a God or Jesus Complex, and maybe other delusions of grandeur. Ohdeboi, Xerxes and his father would have quite the time speaking with him…
I loved Ulysses character. Sure, ppl might be 'long winded' to some, but I appreciated his thoughtful character that was so delightfully flawed in his hypocrisy yet still trying an answer to it all.... even if it meant being proved wrong.
As for his solution?
Well, I can't say it's correct or not short sighted, but he's coming from a place colored by tragedy and where the answer he saw also involved a nuke going off. That is sure to leave an impression if you're trying to look for answers you think is going to work, regardless of the circumstances that led to it on the other side.
When ppl are as traumatized and guilt ridden as he is, on top of wanting a simple answer he can grasp, then yeah... I can see why he'd think the way he did. There's also no denying that he certainly thinks highly of himself.
Biut, I think a LOT of that has to do with him trying desperately to convince himself more than anyone else because, just like everything else he's done, I don't think he fully believed he was making the right or wrong choice until it was too late and he saw the consequences of those choices. And, when a LOT of those consequences are bad.... well, can you blame him for thinking that he can coming up with the 'best and simplest' solution when the answer seems like it's right there and you've seen an example of it already?
That's why he's our foil in every possible way that matters.
Like right down to the fact that he speaks and has a lot to say.
In fact, everything he does in Lonesome Road is to set up a situation for us to meet and get us to make the final decision bc, in the end, I don't think he was sure that nuking them was the right thing. After all, he called us out just to talk and let the dice roll where they may one final time. I think 'that' was the answer he was looking truly looking for with his idea of nuking both the NCR and Legion. He understood, in his heart of hearts, that he needed to know for sure if what he was doing 'was' the right answer. And who better to ask than the person who showed him the path in the first place, who was like him in every way that mattered.
Thank you for all the effort you put into sharing this series with us.
After 7 years I finally understand the full story behind this DLC
As a wise man once said, "We all go through periods of darkness. In such times, we can turn to the Lord, but it's good to have friends... When the walls come tumbling down, when you lose everything you have, you always have family. And your family always has tribe." Ulysses has no friends or family, not after the legion killed his tribe. And after all he's seen and done, I'm sure he no longer has a god he can believe in either. He's a man who's lost everything, a ship in a storm with no port to call home. Nuking one place is bad enough, let alone two, but to him there's no alternatives because he's watched them all burn in front of him. I lied earlier when I said Ulysses has nothing, because he does have one thing left, his anger. And so he plans to unleash that anger on the legion, who has destroyed so much history and so many ways of life, and on the NCR, who is corrupt and cares far less for the little man that they let show. He's lost so much he'd rather cling to this anger, which blinds him, rather than realize what the best thing to do is. The greatest thing we can do isn't seek vengance, or make a legacy of conquest, or destroy everything that's left. The greatest thing you can do is learn to let go.
I finally understand this backstory, and Ulysses logs now. Thankyou so much Oxhorn.
Ulysses strikes me as a very bitter, very scarred man. Mainly he seems, to me at least, to have at one point been a believer in the "just-world fallacy." He's the kind of person who needs to see meaning in everything, needs there to be purpose behind the actions of his past, because the other alternative is that everything he's gone through has been for nothing, and that terrible things can just happen for no reason. People who buy into the just-world hypothesis believe that the world is an inherently _fair_ if not a necessarily _good_ place, and if bad things do happen, then they must have happened for a reason.
Ulysses sees all his woes-- the destruction of the Twisted Hairs, his discovery of Hoover Dam, the Divide, the White-Legs and New Canaan, as serving a purpose. He views these events as happening to teach him a lesson, to impart the wisdom of history. He tries to find meaning in these lessons, so that he can validate and understand why they happened. His plans, to ultimately destroy the NCR and the Legion, are the natural conclusion to these lessons in his mind. If his own tribe can be destroyed by one man's lies (Vulpes) and New Canaan, a tribe so good Ulysses said it didn't deserve to be stuck in the Wasteland, can be destroyed by one man's hate (Caesar) then the two nations who are objectively worse than them (NCR and the Legion) _SHOULD_ be destroyed by one man (Ulysses).
Your finale with Ulysses, when you're talking him down, you're making him realize that just because bad things _have_ happened, doesn't mean he should _make_ bad things happen. You're breaking his belief in the just-world hypothesis, and forcing him to accept a view of the real world. That's why when you speak to him again in Hopesville, he seems so downtrodden and listless. He's had his entire worldview destroyed, and needs to find a new one.
I thought today would've been the loot episode. This will do wonderfully though.
Ulysses then looked to the sky, shaking his fist. He cried out "I'LL GET YOU, GADGET!!!"
Seems more likely to me that the grave at wolfhorn ranch is where he buried his legion flag?
best birthday gift yet . thanks for all ur hard work ox.
thank you.
Joshua Graham > Ulysses
That said, Ulysses > than every character in FO4
Who would win? A man with a poetic vocabulary, great intellect and the tenacity to survive in a nuclear apocalypse,
Or
One crispy boi
Graham is just a fucking murderer and deserved to be turned to crisp
Ulysses> Graham
NCR Elite Riot Officer
Ulysses killed tons of people too, you know...
Graham murders a bunch of people, fails, gets betrayed, realizes the error of his ways, and earnestly tries to make amends. Ulysses murders a bunch of people, sees a bunch of people get killed by accident, broods, and comes to the conclusion that the best course of action is to murder even more people on purpose.
Graham>Ulysses
Everybody loves bacon. Graham was covered in pitch from head to toe, lit on fire (some serious heat there), and thrown into the deepest part of the Grand Canyon. He survives not only the severe burns that'd kill anyone and anything, but he also didn't scream once during the ordeal. He got up and walked out of there even though 3rd degree burns should be the least of his concerns (high drop into a canyon would spell doom on its own let alone WHILE ON FIRE). Ulysses survived a nuclear apocalypse in the Divide but those missiles detonated underground, ripping it all apart and sent him plummeting. The radiation or invisible fires as well as the drop showed they didn't kill everyone (seeing as Marked Men, robots, and death claws seemed to do just fine). That crispy boi also expected Ulysses to come for him. He wasn't afraid, though I would imagine it could turn into a stalemate since both are essential characters. Plus, a drive and belief behind a man as Ulysses states himself can make the difference. Graham stands to protect the inhabitants of Zion Canyon, if Ulysses came for him, it would be him alone vs Graham and the strength of Zion Canyon. I love both characters, I would put my mentats on Graham for his high tolerance of pain, motivation, redemption, and beliefs.
I always thought the white legs adopted Ulysses hairstyle as a way to show respect to someone they viewed as a mentor or teacher. I don't think it was motivated by their desire to enter the legion, since a different hairstyle wouldn't change the legions opinion of them.
24:26 "to destroy nations"
The moment he said that a Deathclaw killed him IN ONE SHOT
Jesus Lonesome Road Deathclaws OP
Lonesome Road Deathclaws are intimidating af.
@@thehoodybadger3402 Ikr
Ulysses seems to spend a lot of time and words convincing the Courier of how wrong and short-sighted they are/have been. i really wish he'd take a moment to shut up and be a little more introspective. Ulysses is, at his core, evil. he has to be, he joined the Legion... killed for them, set people up to be killed. Ulysses needs to remember that every time you point your finger at someone you have 3 fingers pointing back at you.
Can't agree more.
Ulysses did a lot of horrible things and is a bit hypocritical, but that doesn't make him evil. If Ulysses was evil, he wouldn't have regretted the things he's done. He's shows remorse for what he's done and has admitted that the legion would ultimately fail. He expressed regret that he ultimately caused the war for Hoover Dam and arming the white legs and tried to leave it all. He's done a lot of horrible things but he isn't evil
chris kuzianik Ulysses didn’t join the Legion willingly, his tribe was forcibly integrated into it
@@MrDerekdef34
People that have done a lot of horrible things tend to be considered evil...
He's not evil? Because he regrets doing evil things? Right, so after he regrets doing evil things, he then decides to launch nuclear missiles that will decimate an entire nation of people.
That doesn't sound like an evil person at all...
Kind of a poorly-constructed point overall; Ulysses after all was forcibly assimilated into the Legion, as were almost all of the Legionaries. Everything he did after could easily be justified since it was likely that those he killed were from the orders of Caesar; the Legion is a military society, and people die in wars (since we have no evidence to the contrary that is the answer we are left with.) The Courier is no better by your standards, even if you play a diplomatic run, you will have killed many people for your flag just as Ulysses had.
I'm not defending Ulysses' plans in the Divide, what he did was an act of vengeance and spite, his words when you get down to it were the ravings of a pained man looking to both destroy his enemy in flesh and spirit as he was. However, even if the Courier were taken out of the equation after the events of the Divided, one could see the value of the nuclear bombs in Ulysses temple, one could see the value in the destruction of The Legion and/or NCR as both factions are flawed, and as long as they are at 'superpower' status, other nations of the future have no chance to maintain independence long enough to bring new and better ideas to the table.
I have been spam watching your videos all day, your voice is so calming, and I love the insight you provide!
Ulysses the Courier:
-
One of THE Most Well-Written Video Game Characters in video-game history.
Frankly: I admire Ulysses; just as much as I admire the Courier.
Each is an Honourable Human Being, each in their own way.
Where Ulysses the Courier wins-out is that he is (perhaps necessarily) introspective, internally-thoughtful, perhaps; self-questioning.
THIS: where extremely few characters, in literature, movies, or video-games, ever are; or ever have been.
Whoever wrote the Ulysses the Courier character has achieved a landmark in human literary history. For: in Ulysses the Courier, Mankind has the opportunity to bear witness to that which Humanity truly can both redeem itself by, and become.
__ There remains much more I could here say (write); but I'll forebear.
Those who comprehend that to which I here, and above, allude; already Understand. __
Kind and Respectful Regards, Uyraell, NZ.
I feel like Ulysses wanted the courier to question their final move at hoover dam as his goal. There is a lot of dialog by Ulysses that paints the courier as someone who also impacts history without realizing it. Almost like he doesn't want you to make the same mistake he did.
Just a thought, but do we know for sure, or to what extent China was nuked like Pre-war America?
I haven't seen much evidence to say that they received very much of a nuking, just that there has been radio silence between the two nations.
All I've heard is that not all of the Chinese nukes fired and that you have the option to launch a nuke to China in FO3, that's pretty much it.
(Was thinking that the next fallout could be interesting, if done from the Chinese perspective)
Septlaxer Gaming operation anchorage (the dlc) should have been told from the perpective of the chinese ground troops, when they conquered the oil supply, now that would have been cool.
Probably the entire world is like post war america
ncr veteran ranger How though you are in America the sim wouldn't be for Chinese Troops
Septlaxer Gaming Well, judging by the fact that the US launched an invasion and deployed the US Army and USMC in mainland China and was winning, I'd say that China was fucked, even without the bombs. I recall that it was said somewhere in one of the Fallout titles, that "China was bombed back to the Stone Age".
I think it's implied that both side have enough nukes to nuke the entire earth back to the stone age
I know it’s five years too late, but the grave at Wolfhorn Ranch is there to symbolize Ulysses being cut from the base game.
Ulysses is great character with awesome and very interesting story. Obsidian has the talent to create good characters with a well-written story.The lonesome road is a very mature dlc that requires intellectual effort to understand the plot well. Obsidian I love you for your ideas.
Mikolaj Domisch to be fair, you need to have a very high IQ to understand Lonesome Road
For those who don't know, "Ulysses" is the Romanized version of the name "Odysseus" from Homer's Odyssey, a tragic hero who's the only one left at the end of a long, perilous, lonesome journey. Fittingly, Ulysses chose the Romanized version of the name courtesy of his time w/ the Legion.
“Kill no courier”
Didn’t vuples say the route to legion base is lined with ncr couriers?
I'm in the I Love Ulysses camp. Have since the first time I played New Vegas and still do. Your series on this DLC has been even more enlightening for me beyond what I was able to uncover. And I loved this synopsis of him. Thanks for what you do, Ox! You're the best!
Ulysses talks the way he does because that's what brooding poetes do. He's not ordering from McDonald's, he's trying to instill in you the way he feels while still moving the conversation along. He's definitely long winded, but that's more of a problem with game pacing than anything.
I believe that Ulysses is possibly the most well constructed character in the Fallout Universe. His ideals, his tone and his messages are what make Ulysses a very unique character. He is far above any companion or NPC in Fallout New Vegas, with possibly Mr. House and Marcus the Super Mutant being on a similar level as him, in regards to character complexity. Ulysses is not as educated as someone that has lived before the Great War, however he has shown sparks of intuition through his words and experiences that has molded him into a powerful character. Joshua Graham, Elijah, Dean Domino and the Think Tank (including Dr. Mobius) are also great examples of characters who may also match up to Ulysses as characters that are powerful through speech. Though this may be the case, Ulysses has known or even met all of them (excluding Dean Domino) and has left a mark on each of those characters in some way. This shows how powerful he is through his voice and all the while gaining knowledge that will help shape his personality even more. Overall, he shows himself to be a character who has risen himself to a higher platform in which not many characters are able to do.
Wait, wait, wait, Hahaha! If Oxhorn and the Storyteller met. 😂
I appreciate the way you are able to breath life in to the narrative. Your insights are much more fleshed out than my own, and you’ve inspired me to do yet another run through of fo:nv. Thank you.
It's funny, I came here not just to learn about Ulysses and hear the full story (I completed all the other DLC except and found all the hidden Ulysses references before I start Lonesome Road) but learn why everyone says Ulysses lived in Wolfhorn Ranch even though there's absolutely no hints he lived there, but now I don't have to. Thanks!
You know I just realized that "The Bear and the Bull" could be somewhat of a reference to stock market candlesticks.
I do not completely disagree with Ulysses, and I do think that he is right in how he thinks, but this video brings a lot of good points and I can't say anything without conflict and some contradiction, but here's how I see it.
The NCR and Caesar's Legion are evil factions, and with that I mean their government and rulers, and this is a natural part of humanity. Everyone who gains strength and influence will use the power they have against lesser and weaker people, and most will be seen as evil for it. Almost every faction in the Fallout universe behaves that way, except maybe the followers of the apocalypse, but even their good deeds can cause damage, simply because the knowledge they share can be used for evil, but I digress.
The reason the divide is destroyed was because of a device the NCR wanted to use, which means they knew about those nukes, and I bet they were trying to use them. Who is to say that the NCR wouldn't use these nuclear missiles for their own purposes? Who is to say the legion wouldn't use those nukes? Maybe the legion would consider it cowardly to use the missiles, and maybe they would use them as a last resort like the old world did.
For the courier and Ulysses to have control over these missiles, for two people to have the power to decide the fate of so many humans, well. I believe that is too much power for just two people, so there is no way for it to be fair, but Ulysses at least has made those conclusions from his own experience, not out of bias. The courier will always be biased because its the player that decides, and the players have their own thoughts and opinions, many which can be biased and will either nuke one faction or both of them. All other factions would use the missiles for their own dominance, so they cannot be trusted with them.
As for innocent people, well. Innocent people and those unrelated will always be the first to suffer from wars, when the titans of power clash against each other. This has always been the case and it will never change. You can destroy the institute for the greater good because they are evil, but aren't you killing innocent people? You can sound the evacuation alarm before destroying the institute, but aren't you destroying their home, culture and material possessions? Many of those people were born in the institute and have nothing outside, but they are forced to evacuate because you decide they must be destroyed, all of that because the leadership is evil. You can destroy Maxson's brotherhood because they are evil, but you'd be killing children who can be considered innocent and being brainwashed. They are countless examples like that in which the innocent suffer because of the stronger powers and it is not a very relevant point to use as an argument in my opinion. The nuclear missiles are there, Ulysses points them at the NCR and the legion, and the courier can change their parameters.
The best thing of course is that they are not launched. If we are honest, nobody should have that power in their hands, especially not a single person or two people, let alone a faction. These old relics of destruction should be put to rest and slumber eternally, but the fact that Ulysses has control of them means he attained the right to use them, but even then, he waited for the courier to meet up with him, which makes me raise a few questions. Did Ulysses really need the courier to deliver ED-E to the launch site? Or did he deliberately make things go that way for the courier to come to him? When the game ends he goes alone throughout the entire divide to the starting point. He left all those holotapes scattered throughout the divide. Is he really incapable of getting that eyebot on his own, despite living in the divide for a while? I feel like his mind was set, but that he also believed that he alone should not have a right to make a decision, so maybe he orchestrated things to lead the one person whose opinion matters to him into that place, to stop him if he is wrong, or if he is stronger, or to agree with him, or to simply carry this burden with or without him. I think that in the end, despite everything he said, Ulysses hid things from the courier, and we may never know all his thoughts. If anything, he looks like a broken spirit to me, a broken spirit who has seen too much.
There is too much to think about, but the video was excellent nonetheless.
Honestly I think a lot of people with an immature sense of morality think that all human suffering somehow makes any action immoral. Oxhorn kindof strikes me as someone with a rather pedantic white knight view of the wasteland. What if "innocent" people *should* be nuked? The only argument people seem to have is "but thats wrong" with no actual justification or reasoning. Daoism is not pacifistic for this very reason. Things happen for a reason. Good and evil are for children, certainly not the fate of nations.
After a full week of watching fallout videos I finally have my own ideology
So this is an old video and no one is probably going to see this. But in regards to ulyesses' speech patterns Navajo is a short winded language but very descriptive. Everything is more symbolism than straight words.
Agreed
i saw
Yeeeeees the profile on Ulysses stayed up all night to see this😀😁. Its 3am. Love the videos and the songs. Ulysses is a harmed soul damaged by his past.
A great video like always love what you do oxhorn and please keep doing it for us
the more i hear about that bastard vulpes, the more i'm glad that every playthrough i blast him.
Question. On the High Road, the courier finds the "Survivor's Footlocker" in a truck. It's a little out there, but is this where the Survivalist came through to get back to his family home in Salt Lake City?
I like to think the graves have no person buried, but ideas that Ulysess is putting to rest
Ulysses would probably like the Minute Men
just wanted to say thanks for making fallout all the more enjoyable. Videos like these go a long way towards adding context and perspective to these games.
And about the grave I said before I think it was a way for him to bury the past to try to forget it Is not the 1st time we've seen someone get rid of a weapon that had history that gauntlet miter a modded him everything he did I want to bury it you want to forget it and move on with his life That would make most sense because In a way it's symbolize a death
Caesar was followers of the apocalypse I believe… which is why he spares them if he wins.
Joshua graham was of new Canaan.
It ABSOLUTELY was carelessness that destroyed the Divide. Yeah Ulysses made mistakes too, but those were mistakes he made based on things he truly believed. The courier often times did things just to see what would happen. And we prove it over and over again. We set off the Nuke to gain access to push the story forward, we activate mini nukes to get at places that are hidden from us, we bring Ed-E straight to Ulysses without even knowing what the consequences would be. And thats just in that one DLC. Imagine all of the decisions the courier has made over the course of the game just because they could. That's why the only time you can talk him down, aside from a 90 speech check, is to have high reputation with a faction. Because to him at least youre showing you believed in something. Otherwise all of the death and destruction really was at your own whim. And thats the thing you taught him : Ideals and Symbols are strong, but not as strong as the person with the audacity to tear them down. He isnt blaming you so much as holding you accountable for your actions, the fact that youve done so much without really meaning to doesnt make your actions less impactful. Think about it. How many times did he tell you "You can always go home courier." and yet you went forward anyway. Ultimately, we say that Ulysses doesnt have the right to act as judge, jury and executioner of the Mohave, but thats exactly what the courier does on a daily basis. They go about exacting whatever brand of justice they deem is right and that can look very different depending on the person manning the controls. You decide what faction takes over the Mohave, if any. You decide if you and Father Elijah destroy the Mohave. You decide whether to side with Dr Klein or Dr Mobius. And all of those actions shape the way the Mohave develops. I think thats on purpose. Ulysses is pointing out that he's just doing what you do all the time. Making an end to things.
You know what well said sir
God damnnn somebody please but this on every fallout post on the internet
Part of me is really tempted to imagine what Ulysses would think of the various towns and factions further east in the Capital Wasteland or the Commonwealth.
In particular, I feel some highlights could be:
-Megaton, in particular the Children of Atom (which make him wonder why these people choose to worship the invisible fire), or Moira Brown and her Wasteland Survival Guide
-Rivet City, where I feel he could have a fun conversation with Abraham Washington and his preserved American relics
-The Republic of Dave (which feels like it might make him wonder if Dave merely plays at building a nation)
-Maybe a visit to Galaxy News Radio and Three Dog?
-Tenpenny Tower, (with maybe a reflection that if Caesar descended upon this place, these people would be in for a _massive_ rude awakening).
-Little Lamplight
Or even with the Commonwealth factions.
-Maybe disgust with the Brotherhood hiding away on the Prydwen, where nobody would be able to reach them
-Maybe contempt for the Institute because of their inactivity or them wasting their time on making machines that play at being human
-Maybe disappointment with the Railroad because of their excessive regard for the aforementioned machines that only pretend to be human
-Maybe curiosity at how an organisation like the Minutemen can hold so much hope of protecting the Commonwealth when they're only at a tiny faction of their original strength.
It’s hard to put into words but after finally meeting with him and fighting along side him... its as if he just needed someone to show him the right path. He wanted to be wrong but couldn’t find anything or anyone to convince him otherwise. Epic DLC #NVBestFO
I think in the Divide, Ulysses saw the synthesis that Caesar had been talking about when he spoke of hegelian dialectics. What Caesar think. he will do by conquering the NCR. From what Ulysses tells us The divide seems to be an up-and-coming nation that had the best traits from both the Legion and the NCR with none of their flaws.
Well no, the only way he lives through the dlc is by finding out he was wrong
I always hated that rv in the high road! In my first playthrough, I did an unarmed/melee build, and the high road was always where I got killed the most. My current build is an stealth sniper/shotgun build, and it has been a breeze since many of the marked men are equipped with antimaterial rifles and riot shotguns, making lonesome road not nearly as difficult, even at level 45.
Also, my theory as to who's in the grave is nobody. Maybe it's a place where he put his past behind him, burying his own past, killing it.
And I just wanna let you know that you're my favorite fallout UA-camr! I've watched all of your new Vegas series, and they've helped me find things in the dlc that I wouldn't usually find or look for. Keep up the fantastic work!
Hello Oxhorn! Will you make video about Vulpes Inculta ?? I love all your videos and hello from Croatia !!!
Considering he killed him first chance he got and his faction runthroughs start at The Tops, I think he’ll probably forget about Vulpes unfortunately.
Reginald Gorpfist yeah I know that , but he is such a cool character, he is the only reason why I liked Caesar's legion ... :(
He is going to do a Ceasar's Legion faction video (or probably mini series) So I woukd guess he would talk about Vulpes then.
When i first played the Lonesome Road DLC i was amazed by the story told by the little stories here and there by Ulysses of what happened in the events of "The Divide" and how it was once prosper and living as a community since the Courier such as "Yourself" but you the Courier carried a package which awoken the Missiles from the Silo beneath the Divide and Ulysses saw the bombs fell onto the Divide and saw everything he loved being destroyed and he was nearly dead but of course how the robots of The Divide saved him. Ulysses tbh is truly one of the most best characters in Fallout History, his voice actor that voiced him matched his own character and his wisdom he speaks from how he was part of the Legion but as an undercover agent as a courier just like you. I honestly dont think there is no other character that can tell such a deep backstory of what happened. im just glad there was a mod that let me have him as a companion with his unique dialogue.