I have family in Kentucky, so I would be inclined to insist upon "Loo-uh-vul," but you are otherwise so well spoken that I'm willing to let it slide... Anyway, your videos are well done and very informative. Keep up the good work!
Hi, brother Joshua! I came across your channel last June (I forgot) and since then have become an "avid" subscriber waiting for your newly uploaded videos. They're absolutely great because of your unbiased presentation of every Christian denomination. God bless you always! Greetings all the way from the Philippines. 🇵🇭💙
1974? For context, this is right after they had taken a sledgehammer to the Catholic Mass. Right after the Second Vatican Council. A lot of people left the Church. It began a cliff of tumbling vocations to the priesthood, religious life, all seven Sacraments, Mass attendance (which still hasn't recovered) People saw this new form and immediately just flew away. I don't blame Catholics for leaving and becoming evangelicals. A lot of them did.
I appreciate how much I’ve learned since listening to your channel. I would like to hear you explain the differences between Cumberland Presbyterians and other Presbyterians. Keep up the good work. We really need to see just how much most of us agree on the essentials and you are helping us do that.
Josh, I would love to see a video of you detailing circles that get a lot of heat concerning their orthodoxy… Circles like Bethel Church, Catch the Fire (of which I am a leader in), MorningStar Ministries, IHOP (International House of Prayer), etc.
I'd love to. I have wanted to do more on Catch the Fire, but I don't have a lot to work with. Can you help me get my hands on booklets or teaching materials from Catch the Fire? Most of the stuff is not online. I would be happy with digital. Let me know. My email is joshua@readytoharvest.com
What Sovereign Grace failed to articulate was that their leadership saw itself as mediary between God and its members. The leadership interpreted to the members what God really thought/meant. You know, usurping the role of the Holy Spirit. They stated this view of themselves NOWHERE in any of their doctrinal information. But they sure acted the role, telling members what to do and not do, not even letting them have (gasp) unsanctioned Bible study groups. I need a hurl emoji to finish this comment...
As someone who grew up in SGM I’d tend to agree. Don’t get me wrong there were a lot of great God fearing people, but the pastors were given far too much power in my opinion. They also claimed to be charismatic, but were only so in the most technical of senses. Healing and prophecy were never really a thing and to be honest I don’t really even know if they believed in the gift of tongues. Like they might SAY they believed in this stuff, but in practice it was either non existent or the pastor would be heavily involved which, felt weird. Like I get being involved to some degree, but if I want to have a Bible study I shouldn’t have to have a pastor involved with this. He’s not my Holy Spirit. This makes their “charismatic” label feel kinda like false advertising looking back on it.
Video on OPC already written, coming sometime in early 2022. Will get to WELS eventually. Will probably make a video on continuing Anglicans, not sure when yet.
It is self evident that such a Calvinist Baptist Church has clearly stated why they believe their path of Christianity is the Truth, and every other denomination is in error. So how can there be true ecumenism when each denomination stands as the undeniable truth in Christianity??
Hello Joshua, What program do you use for screen sharing and editing? This is a nice presentation and I would like to use this style for my church videos. Thank you Sir.
I design my graphics in Affinity designer and edit the videos in either kdenlive or in Adobe premiere elements. I record the video separately and edit the graphics in after the fact.
Hey Joshua! I was wondering if you had the 411 on the "New IFB" and compared to orthodox IFB? Or is there a theological connection between them and Westboro?
As far as number of churches that are a part, they are quite small, so I wasn't planning on making a video on them. But it is a frequent request. So, not sure right now.
Westboro is a very different breed lol. Most of their doctrine comes straight from their founder, Fred Phelps (who funny enough most of the congregation believes is rotting in hell now). I love researching New IFB and generic IFB doctrine. From my research, WBC is very Calvinistic, but I would not consider them reformed. The New IFB and ‘old IFB’ pretty much universally condemns any reformed doctrine when it comes to predestination.
@@peyton.bowman Westboro makes me uncomfortable. Publicizing their opposition to sin is fine but they have resorted to individual attacks. As for Calvinism- that's something else that makes me uncomfortable. I agree with eternal security but limited atonement is contradictory to scriptural teaching that God elects those who believe the Gospel and not that The Lord only died for people God picked out to believe and only they will do that.
@@peyton.bowman Many of his family have not only turned away from his bizarre beliefs, but have left Christianity altogether. His son Nathan is an avowed atheist. His granddaughter Megan (who was the social media "face" of the "church") has also left along with other family members, she too no longer believes in Christianity.
I know the point of this video and even the channel isn’t to focus necessarily on trends in Christendom, but I’d love to hear and learn more about the role that the Purity movement had in churches in the US, when I was growing up in the 90s and 2000s it seemed to me that Joshua Harris’ I Kissed Dating Goodbye did a lot to further that agenda in evangelical spaces, though I could be wrong. Since Harris was a protege of Mahaney’s, his influence downstream in our SGC was immense, and imo not always for the best.
Why didn't the "church founder" inquire more about what his Catholic church taught before hopping ship on the first date with anew ecclesial community?
Probably because a lot of Catholic faith boils down to “tradition” and not scripture. Your problem is that your assuming he didn’t ask questions. What’s just as likely is that he did ask questions, but didn’t get any good answers.
Dualism is a peaceful discussion worth pursuing as to whether such a philosophy belongs in Christian Orthodoxy. Whether the body is a soul or a person is a body and a soul has ramifications across a person's theology.
I was a member of SGC for 15 years. It was PDI then when I became a member in 2000 at its "flagship" church Covenant Life Church. SGC's leadership is caustic, overlording, evasive when confronted with sin (whether by Brett Detwiler or others), and goes beyond Scriptural bounds for leadership almost to the extent of Popery; and I regard CJ as a wayward brother. I was happy to support and vote for CLC's separation from SGC.
Kudos to your thoroughness in enumerating distinctions in the various churches but please provide where possible a flow of the money in cases of denominational headquarters assessments and membership requirements. There is always a "lucre" element in every ecclesiology.
Definitely one of the better, more Biblically grounded charismatic streams but would still be more charismatic and Reformed than what I would be comfortable with. There's also the issue of appalling abuse of children by those in leadership positions where a cover up was attempted which is a huge repelling factor. This group of churches do put out decent contemporary worship music.
As a former SGC staff member, I commend you on your research. Good use of the Wayback Machine, I assume. To elaborate a bit on the exodus from SGC mentioned toward the end of the video, the reasons went far beyond the child abuse scandals, which were just symptoms of SGC leadership being authoritarian, hypocritical, unaccountable, secretive, and craving the praise of men. Those systemic problems are why the majority of the congregations and members left. The reasons detailed in the parting letters from pastors of churches that left SGC in the 2010s are quite an eye opener. Many of the present-day doctrines and emphases of SGC were introduced gradually without explanation throughout the 1990s after its origins as a charismatic movement without a lot of doctrinal specifics, like boiling a frog.
It seems like all the Sovereign Grace churches are a little different. We've been going to Covenant Fellowship Church in Glen Mills PA. So far everything seems to be very biblical. We did the bridge course which was amazing. I grew up in church and wish all churches had a bridge course. We're about to go through there explore course. I like the order and the Bible studies, the small groups, the defense of the Gospel. Do you know anything about the church in Glen Mills?
Same. We attend in another state and we have had no issues. I’m not saying it could never happen. Humans are sinful. I do wonder how much of the problems could have been prevented with smaller congregations… just a thought. Our family has never been a fan of massive churches and our SHC is not one (less than 200). It’s hard to be evasive when everyone knows you personally. Again not putting ours on a pedestal. We have found our leaders to genuinely love the congregation and newcomers, be very patient and not force anyone to bend to their will. Our pastor has even apologized for misspeaking or when he had offended a member: he didn’t publicly from the pulpit.
I was raised in a SGC church that left in the 2010s and I agree, the when the cases of abuse were revealed our church was troubled (having dealt with abuse in our early years, we already had many safeguards to protect children, and we tried to help our sister churches “bulk up” their protections as well) but the slow drip of unexplained and unreasoned doctrinal changes, plus how the public dispute and accusations re: Mahaney vs. Detweiler were handled and the decisions following that were more the reason many of the FL churches chose to leave the denomination.
I love your videos. So much information. But then I think so many churches with so many different beliefs. And every church thinks they are correct. Of course that is impossible. So I understand why atheists look at Christianity with skepticism. I don't see any way to reconcile all these churches. Does this bother you at all as a pastor and professor?
Look, I'm just gonna say it before anyone else does. Looeyville is just as fine a pronunciation as Loo-uh-ville. At least I didn't say Lewissville.
Loo-uh-vul is my favorite. It takes distinctly Appalachian talking skills to not sound like you've had a few when you say it the supposed 'right way.'
We in Nashville say "Looey-ville", as in St. Looey, MO.
No, it isn't. Lou'-uh-vul is the only acceptable pronunciation.
I have family in Kentucky, so I would be inclined to insist upon "Loo-uh-vul," but you are otherwise so well spoken that I'm willing to let it slide...
Anyway, your videos are well done and very informative. Keep up the good work!
As a native Louisvillian, the best way to pronounce the name of the Derby City is as one syllable.
Hi, brother Joshua! I came across your channel last June (I forgot) and since then have become an "avid" subscriber waiting for your newly uploaded videos. They're absolutely great because of your unbiased presentation of every Christian denomination. God bless you always! Greetings all the way from the Philippines. 🇵🇭💙
Thank you Joshua, glad to hear you've enjoyed the channel!
1974? For context, this is right after they had taken a sledgehammer to the Catholic Mass. Right after the Second Vatican Council. A lot of people left the Church. It began a cliff of tumbling vocations to the priesthood, religious life, all seven Sacraments, Mass attendance (which still hasn't recovered)
People saw this new form and immediately just flew away. I don't blame Catholics for leaving and becoming evangelicals. A lot of them did.
Archbishop Lefebvre was right.
Too true, some are slowly returning
About 10-15 years ago they changed the mass even more.
I was involved in a campus ministry of one of these churches! Met some of my best friends through it
I appreciate how much I’ve learned since listening to your channel. I would like to hear you explain the differences between Cumberland Presbyterians and other Presbyterians. Keep up the good work. We really need to see just how much most of us agree on the essentials and you are helping us do that.
Thanks Patricia, I definitely need to do Cumberland Presbyterians, it's an interesting group. Hopeful I can do it in 2022!
Done. ua-cam.com/video/9TxVfFPAAH0/v-deo.html
Thankful to God to be a part of this great family of churches!
Josh, I would love to see a video of you detailing circles that get a lot of heat concerning their orthodoxy… Circles like Bethel Church, Catch the Fire (of which I am a leader in), MorningStar Ministries, IHOP (International House of Prayer), etc.
I'd love to. I have wanted to do more on Catch the Fire, but I don't have a lot to work with. Can you help me get my hands on booklets or teaching materials from Catch the Fire? Most of the stuff is not online. I would be happy with digital. Let me know. My email is joshua@readytoharvest.com
What Sovereign Grace failed to articulate was that their leadership saw itself as mediary between God and its members. The leadership interpreted to the members what God really thought/meant. You know, usurping the role of the Holy Spirit. They stated this view of themselves NOWHERE in any of their doctrinal information. But they sure acted the role, telling members what to do and not do, not even letting them have (gasp) unsanctioned Bible study groups. I need a hurl emoji to finish this comment...
As someone who grew up in SGM I’d tend to agree. Don’t get me wrong there were a lot of great God fearing people, but the pastors were given far too much power in my opinion. They also claimed to be charismatic, but were only so in the most technical of senses. Healing and prophecy were never really a thing and to be honest I don’t really even know if they believed in the gift of tongues. Like they might SAY they believed in this stuff, but in practice it was either non existent or the pastor would be heavily involved which, felt weird. Like I get being involved to some degree, but if I want to have a Bible study I shouldn’t have to have a pastor involved with this. He’s not my Holy Spirit. This makes their “charismatic” label feel kinda like false advertising looking back on it.
Thanx, Joshua 🌹🌲🌹
Love your work, have you thought about doing more videos on more conservative denominations With a mainline heritage, say the APA,WELS, or OPC?
Video on OPC already written, coming sometime in early 2022. Will get to WELS eventually. Will probably make a video on continuing Anglicans, not sure when yet.
@@ReadyToHarvest Thanks, you are a pretty cool guy for tolerating all us weirdos.
It is self evident that such a Calvinist Baptist Church has clearly stated why they believe their path of Christianity is the Truth, and every other denomination is in error. So how can there be true ecumenism when each denomination stands as the undeniable truth in Christianity??
Hello Joshua,
What program do you use for screen sharing and editing? This is a nice presentation and I would like to use this style for my church videos.
Thank you Sir.
I design my graphics in Affinity designer and edit the videos in either kdenlive or in Adobe premiere elements. I record the video separately and edit the graphics in after the fact.
Hey Joshua! I was wondering if you had the 411 on the "New IFB" and compared to orthodox IFB?
Or is there a theological connection between them and Westboro?
As far as number of churches that are a part, they are quite small, so I wasn't planning on making a video on them. But it is a frequent request. So, not sure right now.
@@ReadyToHarvest
We are trying to publicly share the Gospel in the Phoenix area and are coming up against their influence in the area. Not good.
Westboro is a very different breed lol. Most of their doctrine comes straight from their founder, Fred Phelps (who funny enough most of the congregation believes is rotting in hell now). I love researching New IFB and generic IFB doctrine. From my research, WBC is very Calvinistic, but I would not consider them reformed. The New IFB and ‘old IFB’ pretty much universally condemns any reformed doctrine when it comes to predestination.
@@peyton.bowman Westboro makes me uncomfortable. Publicizing their opposition to sin is fine but they have resorted to individual attacks. As for Calvinism- that's something else that makes me uncomfortable. I agree with eternal security but limited atonement is contradictory to scriptural teaching that God elects those who believe the Gospel and not that The Lord only died for people God picked out to believe and only they will do that.
@@peyton.bowman Many of his family have not only turned away from his bizarre beliefs, but have left Christianity altogether. His son Nathan is an avowed atheist. His granddaughter Megan (who was the social media "face" of the "church") has also left along with other family members, she too no longer believes in Christianity.
I'd love to see a direct compare and contrast between Sovereign Grace Churches and New Frontiers.
Have you considered doing a 3rd person examination of your beliefs and doctrine, or that of your church? That would be very interesting 🤔.
I know the point of this video and even the channel isn’t to focus necessarily on trends in Christendom, but I’d love to hear and learn more about the role that the Purity movement had in churches in the US, when I was growing up in the 90s and 2000s it seemed to me that Joshua Harris’ I Kissed Dating Goodbye did a lot to further that agenda in evangelical spaces, though I could be wrong. Since Harris was a protege of Mahaney’s, his influence downstream in our SGC was immense, and imo not always for the best.
Why didn't the "church founder" inquire more about what his Catholic church taught before hopping ship on the first date with anew ecclesial community?
Probably because a lot of Catholic faith boils down to “tradition” and not scripture. Your problem is that your assuming he didn’t ask questions. What’s just as likely is that he did ask questions, but didn’t get any good answers.
Dualism is a peaceful discussion worth pursuing as to whether such a philosophy belongs in Christian Orthodoxy. Whether the body is a soul or a person is a body and a soul has ramifications across a person's theology.
I was a member of SGC for 15 years. It was PDI then when I became a member in 2000 at its "flagship" church Covenant Life Church. SGC's leadership is caustic, overlording, evasive when confronted with sin (whether by Brett Detwiler or others), and goes beyond Scriptural bounds for leadership almost to the extent of Popery; and I regard CJ as a wayward brother. I was happy to support and vote for CLC's separation from SGC.
Kudos to your thoroughness in enumerating distinctions in the various churches but please provide where possible a flow of the money in cases of denominational headquarters assessments and membership requirements. There is always a "lucre" element in every ecclesiology.
interesting, another group i never heard of
I trust Larry brought many RC into the Evangelical church.
Definitely one of the better, more Biblically grounded charismatic streams but would still be more charismatic and Reformed than what I would be comfortable with. There's also the issue of appalling abuse of children by those in leadership positions where a cover up was attempted which is a huge repelling factor. This group of churches do put out decent contemporary worship music.
Yeah I do like their version of Ein Feste Burg.
@@memeboi6017
They certainly do put out some of the best of contemporary worship music and a plus point for them indeed.
Thank you for your videos. I love SG music, although I'm not a fan of their theology.
Unfortunately, he went from the frying pan into the oven.
As a former SGC staff member, I commend you on your research. Good use of the Wayback Machine, I assume. To elaborate a bit on the exodus from SGC mentioned toward the end of the video, the reasons went far beyond the child abuse scandals, which were just symptoms of SGC leadership being authoritarian, hypocritical, unaccountable, secretive, and craving the praise of men. Those systemic problems are why the majority of the congregations and members left. The reasons detailed in the parting letters from pastors of churches that left SGC in the 2010s are quite an eye opener. Many of the present-day doctrines and emphases of SGC were introduced gradually without explanation throughout the 1990s after its origins as a charismatic movement without a lot of doctrinal specifics, like boiling a frog.
It seems like all the Sovereign Grace churches are a little different. We've been going to Covenant Fellowship Church in Glen Mills PA. So far everything seems to be very biblical. We did the bridge course which was amazing. I grew up in church and wish all churches had a bridge course. We're about to go through there explore course. I like the order and the Bible studies, the small groups, the defense of the Gospel. Do you know anything about the church in Glen Mills?
Same. We attend in another state and we have had no issues. I’m not saying it could never happen. Humans are sinful. I do wonder how much of the problems could have been prevented with smaller congregations… just a thought. Our family has never been a fan of massive churches and our SHC is not one (less than 200).
It’s hard to be evasive when everyone knows you personally. Again not putting ours on a pedestal. We have found our leaders to genuinely love the congregation and newcomers, be very patient and not force anyone to bend to their will. Our pastor has even apologized for misspeaking or when he had offended a member: he didn’t publicly from the pulpit.
I was raised in a SGC church that left in the 2010s and I agree, the when the cases of abuse were revealed our church was troubled (having dealt with abuse in our early years, we already had many safeguards to protect children, and we tried to help our sister churches “bulk up” their protections as well) but the slow drip of unexplained and unreasoned doctrinal changes, plus how the public dispute and accusations re: Mahaney vs. Detweiler were handled and the decisions following that were more the reason many of the FL churches chose to leave the denomination.
What's with Reformed/Calvinist Denominations and denial of evolution?
They just tend more theologically conservative in general and a bit more literalist in some ways, though generally not in regards to eschatology.
Evolution is false.
@@elwingw4321 yeah right
I guess they're trying to be biblical
@@timothyowen4503 One does not have to reject science to be Biblical.
I love your videos. So much information. But then I think so many churches with so many different beliefs. And every church thinks they are correct. Of course that is impossible. So I understand why atheists look at Christianity with skepticism. I don't see any way to reconcile all these churches. Does this bother you at all as a pastor and professor?
Lots of beards and kids, although not a specific theological point I am aware of this is the common culture I see.
Churches always seem to have to deal with that pesky grimly-serious black coffee Calvinism whenever they start to focus on scripture, ay? ;) haha
Sovereign Grace is a cult. Only play SG music. Only promote SG books. If you leave, you get cut off as if you never exr😂
People have no problem calling this Christian yet catholics who actually have an ancient apostolic liturgy are called apostate...
They pray to dead people
Seems to be one of the most confused and inconsistent theology I’ve seen. At least out of the non heretical denominations