Hey Greg, Another bench question....Why does the bench press usually increase when an individual simply gains weight? I've noticed that a lot of lifter's bench press numbers go up and down as their bodyweight goes up and down. (In a relatively short period of time. They aren't losing/gaining a considerable amount of muscle mass) I've also noticed that if you place 2 UNTRAINED individuals side by side, the heavier guy/gal will almost always be able to bench more. I understand this for the squat and the deadlift (mass moves mass) but why the bench press? (even when the lifter does not use leg drive) Thanks!
A lot of bro science answers here about leverages. A 10lb weight increase doesn't alter leverages to a significant degree, yet it's not uncommon to see this followed by a concurrent 10lb increase in bench strength.. all things equal. The weight feels like a lighter load because the weight gets distributed over a larger area of mass. Less force per unit area is being applied across a distribution, making the lift easier.
First off, you're very well spoken on camera Greg. Love it! Keep this going. About the overhead press: from personal experience, I've found my tricep being my major weakness when improving my bench. I've found that heavy over head presses allow me to practice through a grinding sticking point (similar to my bench) for multiple reps with less weight. For the longest I was stuck at 297lbs, missing lockout at about the 90 degree point in my elbow. I'm sure it's shoulder weakness too. Also I'm reminded of the LTT8 seminar on accessory lifts done by Dave Tate, have you seen it? I'm guessing his philosophy is a lot different than yours, but he would track the progress of his accessory as a % of his main lift as he approached a meet. You title is perfect! It doesn't have to be sexy, just make sure it's relevant to what people want to know. Maybe another title option would be "How to bench press more with the overhead press." Maybe "How to increase bench press using the shoulder press." .. If you want to be super sexy you can write "Why the Shoulder Press is a Waste of time for benching more weight." .. okay now for my question: In your personal training history, What beer would you correlate to drinking the night before to having a great bench session the next day?" okay looking forward to more greg!!
If your train both lifts, a typical OHP/Bench ratio will be 60-70%. Yours was down near 40% because you focused on bench and benching doesn’t carry over very well. Then once you starting training OHP, you went up 60+% which is a more typical. The OHP carries over to benching much better in the sense that you will always be able to bench a fair amount more than your OHP even with minimal benching.
Hello Greg in regards to bench press and overhead as an accessory, I did some heavy shoulder presses for a couple of weeks and returned to the bench. From there I got a significant increase on the bench from 210kg to 220kg whith the bodyweight of 82.5kg for me it has worked wonders :)
Agree with this. I upped my OHP from 225 to 220x5 and my bench went nowhere (was training both weekly). Now I switched out OHP day for banded bench day and I'm already seeing the results.
Good video, but I'd like to add (not implying you don't know this) that the bottom position isn't just about deltoid strength (not implying you were saying it's only about deltoids). It's where your chest is the strongest for shoulder flexion (the horizontal displacement of the bar in the bench press), as the shoulder is hyperextended at the bottom, which makes the inferior fibres of the chest have the opposite of their normal function (very strong shoulder flexors instead of shoulder extensors). This is why dips are so good for the chest, even though it's mostly shoulder flexion and not transverse flexion - all of the flexion is done from hyperextension to anatomical position, so the lower and middle fibres of the pec major are in a very strong position to flex the shoulder - in a stronger position than the anterior deltoids, even. This is also one of the reasons why pressing "back and then up" helps you bench a lot more weight - because you're taking more advantage of the chest ability to contribute to shoulder flexion at the bottom of the lift. So even at the bottom of the lift, chest still is the most important dealer when it comes to the shoulder joint movement in the bench press. The deltoid is also a primary mover, both for flexion and transverse flexion, but the chest just has better leverages/moment arms and is a larger muscle. Pics in this album imgur.com/a/5oyCJ show moment arm for shoulder flexion, but unfortunately do not include the moment arms when the shoulder is under hyperextension (couldn't find these on any studies yet) - only from the anatomical position onwards. Again, the lower fibres of the pec major have the opposite function under hyperextension, they perform flexion instead of extension. Even then, you can see that the middle and upper fibres of the pec major have a very decent moment arm for flexion even after the anatomical position (upper pec major has the higher peak moment arm, even). And this isn't even taking the size of the pec major when compared to the anterior deltoids in consideration. Another important detail to note in the pictures is how the middle fibres of the chest also help with flexion even when not under hyperextension, and how the anterior delts moment arm is weaker at lower angles (even weaker at hyperextension).
i personally find the ohp really works my triceps and as i guy who gets elbow pain with skullcrushers and pull downs its a good tricep worker. ill never forget the pump i got when i maxed on it
I failed a PR attempt of 295 on the bench press the other day despite doing 285 easily, only got 295 about an inch off my chest. Recently started OHP suspecting my shoulders were quite weak as I never directly train them, glad to hear it will likely carryover to my bench press sticking point.
Great to see you back. Keep it on. My Question: a) Best exercise for the mid-range bench press? b) best program to increase my bench press?. Thanks and greetings from Kuwait.
Hey Greg, what are your thoughts on training muscle groups based on their muscle types? Examples, generally speaking calves are 90% slow twitch, while hamstrings are 70% fast twitch. It is said the more fast twitch the lower the reps, the more slow twitch the higher the reps. It makes sense to me in theory and practicality.
Good question! I would like to hear his thoughts on this too, as Menno Henselmans is quite big on this one too and he seems like a pretty smart guy to me.
I've got a practical programming question! I've read the articles on Strengtheory about counting volume as the number of hard sets, and why sets x reps x weight might not be the best way to count volume. Let's suppose volume *and intensity as a percentage of 1RM* are equated on a given exercise with different sets and reps (so not like the Schoenfeld 7x3 vs 3x10 study where the 7x3 was heavier). So let's say I'm doing 40 total reps of squats. I know what weight to use for a 5x8, but I also *hate* doing that. I've used the same weight for 8x5 with shorter rest periods instead, and although it is slightly less time efficient, I would rather do more sets for less reps at a lower RPE. I find it easier to maintain form, bar speed, and concentrate on each rep. In terms of hypertrophy and strength, will there be any differences between the 5x8 and 8x5 *using the same weight*?
My bench press was 575-600 back in the 90s. My favorite lift for my bench we’re behind neck press to my traps. No half reps. My best numbers were 405 for 4 almost 5 to my traps with a few pauses. I didn’t use heavy gear. For back barbell bent rows and deadlifts. As far as other assistance work for bench. Nose busters with bar. One handed dumbbell over head press. I preferred to do incline on bench days more than flat bench. I would not go behind neck ever week do front press every other week. I did destroy my right shoulder over Time . Just be careful and warm up
Hi Greg, while on the subject of bench press, how can we increase bench press strength while losing weight? My bench goes up during bulk and then backwards during cut which leads to some wheel spinning. Thanks
Couldn't agree more, there is only so much pressing you can do in 1 week and if you want to get better at bench, then bench more. when I started training OHP seriously my bench never changed and vice versa.
a)Would you rather recommend keeping the competition lift in a hypertrophy phase (ex. wide grip bench, lowbar squat) or rather switch it to something with a higher range of motion like oly squats and medium grip bench or something. b) And If you would switch to for example highbar squats during those phases.. would you rather keep the stance as specific as possible, or rather go narrower than usual, if your comp. squat is maybe one foot length outside your shoulders? Thanks in advance!
In my experience it's not a good accessory lift for the bench press. However, when my bench goes up, so does my OHP. Right now, my OHP max is around 180 and my bench max is around 255. I've always been naturally better at the OHP, so for me personally my weakness is in the pecs.
Rule of thumb, whatever you can strict press you can automatically bench at least 20% more weight regardless of if you've ever benched before. So shoulder press has carry over to the Bench, however doing bench press doesn't have carry over to strict press. The ultimate statement of strength is lifting a weight above the head because with the bench leverage is a big factor.
I have done overhead press-only programs that raised my bench press, but mostly by what they did for the upper back/traps. I only benched 355 raw/paused and strict pressed 190.
What if you're able to PR on almost every single exercise, almost every single week, but consistently fail to PR and sometimes even regress in weight and/or reps on overhead press only?
I've just started doing the OHP after giving up on it for a long time. It used to cause all kinds of problems, but I recently watched a video that showed using a narrow grip (thumbs about the center of the shoulder) and keeping your elbows straight out for the bottom part of the press and not letting your elbows flare out until the upper part of the press. I have been doing this on a separate day from my bench day (to reduce the amount of shoulder stress in one day) I have not had any shoulder problems since I have been doing this. I find it also gives me a very good upper chest pump, which was a bit surprising. I also just started doing 5/3/1 after finding an app for it that doers all the calculations for me and so far I'm loving it. It's funny because the first weights it said to use looked real light, but by the end of the workout I was pretty sure that they were dead on.
Hi Greg, do you know anything about pain in the biceps tendon during the deadlift?(Where does it come from, how to get rid of it...) To be more precisely: The pain is located in the spot where the brachioradialis "starts". (Arms are always locked out during the entire lift) Sorry for possible writing mistakes, I`m from Germany. Thanks for your great work!
Many people have knee pain when starting their squat with the knees. Why? My squat looks better if I start with the knees but it's quite unconfortable until I've warmed up and I wonder why.......
Video request:Does training different lifts in different rep ranges affect the strength of those particular lifts.For example training the bench press in the 1-5 rep range and keeping the intensity fairly high.Then training the squat in the 8-12 rep range with lower percentages.How does the rep range effect maximal strength in those lifts.
A squat question: My front squat is very strong (120 kg max) compared to my back squat (135 kg max). That's more than the usual 80% ratio you mention in your "How to squat" seminar. What could be the reason for this and what can i do carry my front squat strength over to my back squat better?
What should you do if your sticking point is in the middle? Any spesific excercises or muscle groups that need strengthening? Also, could weak upper back muscles hinder your bench gains? I noticed my upper back on my left side is quite weak, and its way harder for me to lift up with left arm than with my right.
Greg, When you have a rotator cuff injury, or other shoulder injury, do you recommend avoiding benching completely until the shoulder has fully recovered? Should you bench light to retain good technique? Switch to dumbbell benching until healed? What's you're recommended course of action?
How often do you think people should deload as part of a planned program? A lot of people advocate every 4-6 weeks while some don't at all until post meet recovery. Obviously it depends on the competency/competitive level of the lifter?
I have a question. I am doing an AB style general mass/just for health purposes program. I do squat bench and deadlift on both days and on A I then do seated db press, close grip pull down, ez tricep extension, standing ez curl and seated calf raise. B I do push press, low row, tricep pull down, hammer curl and calf raise. My question is for the B workout bicep exercise I was doing single arm isolation curl where you rest the elbow just above the knee but had to switch exercises because on my right arm when my arm came to just above parallel the ligament that runs down the pinky side of my fore arm would pop and feel like it was going to snap even with really light weights?? Any idea what may cause this, some kind of imbalance I have going on and any suggestions for exercises that will help this?? Thank you for the really good info you continue to share.
Hi Greg I've got another question on accessory. You mentioned the fact that overhead press wouldn't be a very efficient accessory for simply improving the bench press. I would like to know your opinion on using front squat to improve back squat and how much carryover is there? A short response will be greatly appreciated! Thank you in advance!
I'm an extremely poor substitute for Greg but thought I'd tell you my experience. For me it helped a lot! I think it all comes down to your weaknesses but mine was core strength/rigidity and this helped so much. Once I'd been doing fronts for awhile suddenly I felt a lot more solid and comfortable in the back squat. From what I've read of Greg's if you're having problem caving and generally struggle to remain strong and rigid this will be greatly beneficial. However if your weakness is in your hips/glutes my guess would be the transfer would be a lot less.
I'd like to hear more about the OHP on an anatomical level. I used to use it as an accessory exercise when I first started benching because I missed at the bottom of my bench, but I stopped doing it after getting some shoulder irritation. I cycled in some shoulder rotation work and more pulls to alleviate that in the past year, but I'm convinced if I try to go for OHP for too high of volume I'll get a slap tear again.
Is there anything wrong with OHP-ing with a suicide grip? I've seen people say it's unsafe to OHP with a suicide grip, but honestly it feels way more secure and sturdy than wrapping my thumb around the bar, and I never considered using suicide grip for flat bench.
+Luca van Antwerpen just curious wondering if it's optimal training or not. Currently I'm doing the following: A Bench 3x4-8 Dips 1xf bw Db press 3x15-20 Pull downs 1x15 Stand lat raise. 4x15 Squat 15-20 Deficit deadlift 1x20 Lunges 15-20 B Deadlift 3-4x4-8 Bent over row 3x8 Pull-up 1xF Bent rear delt 3x20* Leg curl 3x10* Back ext 4x20 Db bench 1x12 Inc bench 1x8-12 C OHP 3x4-8 Dips 1x8-12 Seated lat raise 3x8 Db row 3x15-20* Skulls 3x15* Pushdowns 3x20* Ez curl 3x15-20* Squat 2x10 D Squat 4x4 Leg press 4x8 SLDL 2x10 *Yates row 3x15-20 *seated rear delt 3x12 Weighted chins 4x5 Db incline 1x15 CG bench 1x15-20 E Leg curl 1x20 Front squat 1x10 Back ext 2x12 High pulley fly 1x12-15 Pendlay row 1x6-8 Db curl 1x6-8 Rope ext 1x12 As I said earlier I do one day on and one off with "E" being a assistance/deload day.
Well, before i'd comment anything. Does it work? Are you getting closer to your goals with what your doing right now? (The question was is it sustainable but i think my question would be more important to ask)
+Luca van Antwerpen +Luca van Antwerpen so far the last 2 months it's been working. I've been progressing and haven't hit a wall as of yet. Sometimes because of my job I may miss a day but because they're whole body workouts it's not a huge deal when I miss a day. It fits my schedule and I haven't deteriorated so far.
Charlie Hulse Well if it works, i'd say don't change it. I'd personally do it diffrently. Just keep in mind if you stall, you should change some things. For example if you stall on your squats, you may want to change to high / low bar (depends on what youve been doing) or front squats as an example and keep doing these untill you stall. Same aplies for all your exercises, if you stall, change it and just keep repeating that everything you stall somewhere. That should help you keep progressing for longer.
Just out of interest, is it possible to have an acromion that is better suited to overhead pressing than bench pressing? For me, shoulder pressing makes my shoulders feel supple, but I get shoulder problems quite easily from benching.
My question is, if overhead pressing is not best accessory movement to increase bench press for most people, what is? Obviously, pin press, spoto press or floor press are great, but theyre just different variations of bench basically. Is there some specific accessory movement that you would recommend for most people that fail the lift somewhere on a midway up, like you said? Thanks in advance
Midway fail is not a specific weakness of anything, you are just overall not strong enough to lift the weight. Anything that makes either your triceps or chest stronger will help, assuming you have already milked out any technique issues.
Hey Greg! I have a question on core bracing on the squat: How would you advise a lifter to improve their core bracing before descent? I find that on squats near max intensity, it becomes difficult to brace correctly, particularly on low bar. To explain the sensation: it sometimes seems as though the bar compresses the chest cavity enough such that it becomes difficult to get a full breath in. I generally brace before unracking, and take another bracing breath before I squat down. It is the second breath that is compromised at higher intensities. Thanks so much!
He did an exhaustive video on the squat with Omar Isuf that I think is on Omar's channel. You should also check out the video that Cris Duffin did with Silent Mike on how to squat, he goes into great detail about bracing. I believe it is on both Cris Duffin and Mark Bell's channels.
most effective ways to autoregulate training volume? mike tuchscherer has TRAC and fatigue percents, others have used HRV. how valid are these methods?
So what should one do to increase the bench if they miss in the "normal" mid-range? Are partial range of motion exercises such as pin and board presses the go-to, or is just more bench pressing better?
Hi Greg, really interesting video! Would be great to hear your opinion on the most useful exercise to help with the more common sticking point in the bench. Thanks!
Is push press any good as an accessory for strict press ohp? I always finish off a couple more reps pushing after I've failed at a high weight on strict. I imagine it doesn't since I'm shoving it past the sticking point but I like doing it.
one more question. if the ohp didnt really do much to help you increase your bench, what accessory exercise did you use to help increase your bench? thanks
hey greg, I have been trying to write my first volume block (2 months) of my first powerlifting program. I am an experienced lifter with very good form in all versions of the compound lifts including clean and jerk and snatch and have a 505 lbs Deadlift no belt at 190 lbs to give you an idea of where I am at. I would like to know what you consider to be the most important things to consider when making a volume block for powerlifting style training?
How significant is the impact of attempting to achieve maximal hypertrophy by adding heaps of volume in the form of accessory work on the overall effectiveness of strength programming
you will build more muscle, but less weight on the powerlifts. if you want to increase powerlifts, do more volume of them, look at andy Bolton. just tonnes of squats and conventional deadlifts, minimal accessory work.
Joshua Lup this is an old comment but in my case I'm actually stronger in deadlift when I squat heavy first. It took some time to get used to but I believe training this way would be beneficial as a powerlifter.
Hello Greg. Love your work!!! 5 lbs in 6 weeks? Would you not consider this good progress? Personally, if I could increase my bench by 5lbs every 6 weeks, I would be extremley happy. Rich.
Any advice/cues to help incorporate upper back rounding in the deadlift? I'm used to pull with straight back and have hard time actually rounding it now when i want to.
I bench 3 times a week. I choose in accessories overhead press and floor press. With that, I train shoulders and triceps ugly but what to take for my chest ? I think u promote dumbbel press but my gym just have max 40 kg dumbbell. I can do a lot of reps with that. :-/ I tested "deep dips" but it hurts shoulders. So, shall I go to just pec flies ? I could bench press more I know. ^^
Greg what's your thoughts on back of sets for example i doing a volume block at the moment working up to a top set of 6 followed by taking 10% of the bar for 2 sets of 8 love the content keep it coming
What different accessory lifts do you recommend for the different sticking points in the deadlift and why? Just off the floor is the most relevant for me but I imagine more would get something out of the video if you covered all of them.
What about bicep tendonitis? Can OHP cause issues with tendonitis of the long head of the bicep? I'm having terrible pain and strength loss due to tendonitis. Ways to rehab would be a great video. Thanks for the info.
I've had issues with this in the past and it's frustrating as hell! Generally if it flared up I'd spend a couple of weeks using DBs instead to let it heal while working on shoulder and thoracic spine mobility. The main thing that helped me was going more high bar on the squat. It took me awhile to figure it out but the bicep tendonitis I thought was coming from bench/OHP was actually mainly being caused by low bar squatting, even if the pain was the worst on the upper body days the originally flaring up was the low bar squatting.
Nice one! Another binch question, do you recommend trying to put some external rotation on your shoulders when you lower the bar? Getting a cranky shoulder on the eccentric (without trying to "bend the bar") and some people seem to recommend this but haven't heard you say this before.
say someone has little room in their shoulder because of the acromion process. what would this feel like? i stopped OHpressing months ago due to should pain during the movement and don't want to reaggravate it. my poor delts not getting any love nowadays
My left elbow pops Everytime I try to do anything overhead with a minimal load, any ideas on why this is and what I can do fix it as I would love to over head press.
Greg, I doubled my volume at a given intensity for squats and two weeks later have had to stop squatting because the area above my kneecaps was traumatized. Is this likely caused simply by adding too much too quick? The only other change I made was using an elevated heel squat shoe. Thanks in advance for your thoughts....or anyone else for that matter!
i take it you dont do 15 sets in a single session but divide it through the week? Try adding 5lbs a week untill you stall, when you do switch to another shoulder pressing variation (standing, seated, sitting, off pins, dumbells or barbells etc) and start anew with a decently challenging weight and keep repeating the process each time you stall. Also try to not only work in 1 kind of rep range. Increasing shoulder pressing strengtg can be really hard and time consuming, so consistency is key. Also make sure you do enouth rear delt and mobility work to keep your shoulders healthy
i take it you dont do 15 sets in a single session but divide it through the week? Try adding 5lbs a week untill you stall, when you do switch to another shoulder pressing variation (standing, seated, sitting, off pins, dumbells or barbells etc) and start anew with a decently challenging weight and keep repeating the process each time you stall. Also try to not only work in 1 kind of rep range. Increasing shoulder pressing strengtg can be really hard and time consuming, so consistency is key. Also make sure you do enouth rear delt and mobility work to keep your shoulders healthy
+Luca van Antwerpen thanks for advice :) . No, not the same day at all. 5 sets a day three days a week usually. Currently i am trying to increase volume on the left side by adding some dumbell presses to it, as it is kinda unbalanced. I think its actually coming up.
@Strengtheory why is there still no acceptence of a plant based Diet amoung athletes or so little even tho the WHO and pretty much all big medical science institutions approve that you should minimize animal products for optimal funktion and against chronik disease? thx
Ryan Young a ~27 billion $ wall that is 20ft high and because I dont eat cholesterol and my cardiovascular system still works 100% i can climb over it with a rope and still will when i am 80 years old and : says the guy from the fattest most unhealthy country with the most chronic diseases ever ....yeah donald should make everyone vegan that would make america great
John Constantin but I learned from south park that a side effect of veganism is a rash (its called vagititis) in the form of a bunch of small vaginas breaking out over most or all of your body. honestly id rather just take the cholesterol over that!
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
275 OHP "semi-respectable" lol that's strong AF Greg.
@@JoshuaKevinPerry ohp is normally very less compared to other lifts
Hey Greg,
Another bench question....Why does the bench press usually increase when an individual simply gains weight?
I've noticed that a lot of lifter's bench press numbers go up and down as their bodyweight goes up and down. (In a relatively short period of time. They aren't losing/gaining a considerable amount of muscle mass)
I've also noticed that if you place 2 UNTRAINED individuals side by side, the heavier guy/gal will almost always be able to bench more.
I understand this for the squat and the deadlift (mass moves mass) but why the bench press? (even when the lifter does not use leg drive)
Thanks!
Range of motion and leverages
When you squat you have to lift that 5 pounds on your gut. Not so with bench
A lot of bro science answers here about leverages. A 10lb weight increase doesn't alter leverages to a significant degree, yet it's not uncommon to see this followed by a concurrent 10lb increase in bench strength.. all things equal.
The weight feels like a lighter load because the weight gets distributed over a larger area of mass. Less force per unit area is being applied across a distribution, making the lift easier.
And do not copy my response in one of your videos without the appropriate citation, Alan.
+Colin Robert good point
Great to see a new video Greg, excited to see what's coming!
First off, you're very well spoken on camera Greg. Love it! Keep this going. About the overhead press: from personal experience, I've found my tricep being my major weakness when improving my bench. I've found that heavy over head presses allow me to practice through a grinding sticking point (similar to my bench) for multiple reps with less weight. For the longest I was stuck at 297lbs, missing lockout at about the 90 degree point in my elbow. I'm sure it's shoulder weakness too. Also I'm reminded of the LTT8 seminar on accessory lifts done by Dave Tate, have you seen it? I'm guessing his philosophy is a lot different than yours, but he would track the progress of his accessory as a % of his main lift as he approached a meet. You title is perfect! It doesn't have to be sexy, just make sure it's relevant to what people want to know. Maybe another title option would be "How to bench press more with the overhead press." Maybe "How to increase bench press using the shoulder press." .. If you want to be super sexy you can write "Why the Shoulder Press is a Waste of time for benching more weight." .. okay now for my question: In your personal training history, What beer would you correlate to drinking the night before to having a great bench session the next day?" okay looking forward to more greg!!
If your train both lifts, a typical OHP/Bench ratio will be 60-70%. Yours was down near 40% because you focused on bench and benching doesn’t carry over very well. Then once you starting training OHP, you went up 60+% which is a more typical. The OHP carries over to benching much better in the sense that you will always be able to bench a fair amount more than your OHP even with minimal benching.
Hello Greg in regards to bench press and overhead as an accessory, I did some heavy shoulder presses for a couple of weeks and returned to the bench. From there I got a significant increase on the bench from 210kg to 220kg whith the bodyweight of 82.5kg for me it has worked wonders :)
Skiller BdH Well I’m 3 years old and benched 500kg
Yay, a new video!
I HAVE (maybe) RETURNED
+Strengtheory Do or do not. There is no try. -some green dude
Agree with this. I upped my OHP from 225 to 220x5 and my bench went nowhere (was training both weekly). Now I switched out OHP day for banded bench day and I'm already seeing the results.
Good video, but I'd like to add (not implying you don't know this) that the bottom position isn't just about deltoid strength (not implying you were saying it's only about deltoids).
It's where your chest is the strongest for shoulder flexion (the horizontal displacement of the bar in the bench press), as the shoulder is hyperextended at the bottom, which makes the inferior fibres of the chest have the opposite of their normal function (very strong shoulder flexors instead of shoulder extensors). This is why dips are so good for the chest, even though it's mostly shoulder flexion and not transverse flexion - all of the flexion is done from hyperextension to anatomical position, so the lower and middle fibres of the pec major are in a very strong position to flex the shoulder - in a stronger position than the anterior deltoids, even.
This is also one of the reasons why pressing "back and then up" helps you bench a lot more weight - because you're taking more advantage of the chest ability to contribute to shoulder flexion at the bottom of the lift.
So even at the bottom of the lift, chest still is the most important dealer when it comes to the shoulder joint movement in the bench press. The deltoid is also a primary mover, both for flexion and transverse flexion, but the chest just has better leverages/moment arms and is a larger muscle.
Pics in this album imgur.com/a/5oyCJ show moment arm for shoulder flexion, but unfortunately do not include the moment arms when the shoulder is under hyperextension (couldn't find these on any studies yet) - only from the anatomical position onwards. Again, the lower fibres of the pec major have the opposite function under hyperextension, they perform flexion instead of extension. Even then, you can see that the middle and upper fibres of the pec major have a very decent moment arm for flexion even after the anatomical position (upper pec major has the higher peak moment arm, even). And this isn't even taking the size of the pec major when compared to the anterior deltoids in consideration.
Another important detail to note in the pictures is how the middle fibres of the chest also help with flexion even when not under hyperextension, and how the anterior delts moment arm is weaker at lower angles (even weaker at hyperextension).
i personally find the ohp really works my triceps and as i guy who gets elbow pain with skullcrushers and pull downs its a good tricep worker. ill never forget the pump i got when i maxed on it
Bro you are a natural at talking to the blank gaze of a camera lens. Strengtheory is THEE BEST aka u da best.
I failed a PR attempt of 295 on the bench press the other day despite doing 285 easily, only got 295 about an inch off my chest. Recently started OHP suspecting my shoulders were quite weak as I never directly train them, glad to hear it will likely carryover to my bench press sticking point.
Yes! A new video! I love these well-educated discussions on strength.
I've found dips to be a pretty good accessory for both bench and overhead pressing.
Great to see you back. Keep it on.
My Question: a) Best exercise for the mid-range bench press? b) best program to increase my bench press?. Thanks and greetings from Kuwait.
Overhead press and dumbbell pullovers, perfect combo for both ovh press and bench press strength gain.
This was nice to see. Bout to buy your new books when they come out
Hey Greg, what are your thoughts on training muscle groups based on their muscle types? Examples, generally speaking calves are 90% slow twitch, while hamstrings are 70% fast twitch. It is said the more fast twitch the lower the reps, the more slow twitch the higher the reps. It makes sense to me in theory and practicality.
no
Excluding calves and forearms I'd take this theory with a grain of salt.
Good question! I would like to hear his thoughts on this too, as Menno Henselmans is quite big on this one too and he seems like a pretty smart guy to me.
I've got a practical programming question!
I've read the articles on Strengtheory about counting volume as the number of hard sets, and why sets x reps x weight might not be the best way to count volume.
Let's suppose volume *and intensity as a percentage of 1RM* are equated on a given exercise with different sets and reps (so not like the Schoenfeld 7x3 vs 3x10 study where the 7x3 was heavier). So let's say I'm doing 40 total reps of squats. I know what weight to use for a 5x8, but I also *hate* doing that. I've used the same weight for 8x5 with shorter rest periods instead, and although it is slightly less time efficient, I would rather do more sets for less reps at a lower RPE. I find it easier to maintain form, bar speed, and concentrate on each rep.
In terms of hypertrophy and strength, will there be any differences between the 5x8 and 8x5 *using the same weight*?
My bench press was 575-600 back in the 90s. My favorite lift for my bench we’re behind neck press to my traps. No half reps. My best numbers were 405 for 4 almost 5 to my traps with a few pauses. I didn’t use heavy gear. For back barbell bent rows and deadlifts. As far as other assistance work for bench. Nose busters with bar. One handed dumbbell over head press. I preferred to do incline on bench days more than flat bench. I would not go behind neck ever week do front press every other week. I did destroy my right shoulder over Time . Just be careful and warm up
Hi Greg, while on the subject of bench press, how can we increase bench press strength while losing weight? My bench goes up during bulk and then backwards during cut which leads to some wheel spinning. Thanks
interesting commentary. i feel like benching with a powerlifting bar path takes stress off my anterior delts, personally.
Great video Greg! Fun and informative, what a gifted talker!
Couldn't agree more, there is only so much pressing you can do in 1 week and if you want to get better at bench, then bench more. when I started training OHP seriously my bench never changed and vice versa.
a)Would you rather recommend keeping the competition lift in a hypertrophy phase (ex. wide grip bench, lowbar squat) or rather switch it to something with a higher range of motion like oly squats and medium grip bench or something.
b) And If you would switch to for example highbar squats during those phases.. would you rather keep the stance as specific as possible, or rather go narrower than usual, if your comp. squat is maybe one foot length outside your shoulders?
Thanks in advance!
In my experience it's not a good accessory lift for the bench press. However, when my bench goes up, so does my OHP. Right now, my OHP max is around 180 and my bench max is around 255. I've always been naturally better at the OHP, so for me personally my weakness is in the pecs.
we're just delt-dominant I guess
Rule of thumb, whatever you can strict press you can automatically bench at least 20% more weight regardless of if you've ever benched before. So shoulder press has carry over to the Bench, however doing bench press doesn't have carry over to strict press. The ultimate statement of strength is lifting a weight above the head because with the bench leverage is a big factor.
wrong. Freakied0550 did a video on this.
@@ProphetFear He is right. With overhead pressing, we can predict your 1 MR on the bench press. The opposite is not true.
@@09thespecialone you can predict it because its gonna be a number slightly bigger than your OHP.
I have done overhead press-only programs that raised my bench press, but mostly by what they did for the upper back/traps. I only benched 355 raw/paused and strict pressed 190.
What if you're able to PR on almost every single exercise, almost every single week, but consistently fail to PR and sometimes even regress in weight and/or reps on overhead press only?
Loved the video and looking forward to the upcoming ones!!
My question for the next one is your take on how to fix an uneven squat?
I've just started doing the OHP after giving up on it for a long time. It used to cause all kinds of problems, but I recently watched a video that showed using a narrow grip (thumbs about the center of the shoulder) and keeping your elbows straight out for the bottom part of the press and not letting your elbows flare out until the upper part of the press. I have been doing this on a separate day from my bench day (to reduce the amount of shoulder stress in one day) I have not had any shoulder problems since I have been doing this. I find it also gives me a very good upper chest pump, which was a bit surprising. I also just started doing 5/3/1 after finding an app for it that doers all the calculations for me and so far I'm loving it. It's funny because the first weights it said to use looked real light, but by the end of the workout I was pretty sure that they were dead on.
More videos G Nuckols!
Damn it G. Nucks, why you so cool? good to see you back and thanks for the knowledge.
Greg why dos pressing overhead hurt my neck? Even when looking forward? Also when doing barbel rows. Can you address the neck? Do a neck video?
When would you want to incorporate incline press? I rarely see it used as an accessory.
Why did you raise your shoulders while flaring the elbows? Don't you need to keep them tucked while pressing or am i miss understanding that part?
Hi Greg,
do you know anything about pain in the biceps tendon during the deadlift?(Where does it come from, how to get rid of it...)
To be more precisely: The pain is located in the spot where the brachioradialis "starts". (Arms are always locked out during the entire lift)
Sorry for possible writing mistakes, I`m from Germany.
Thanks for your great work!
Which one do you think is better for fat loss...fasted cardio or HIIT cardio at the end of an intense weight training sesh? Thanks G
Many people have knee pain when starting their squat with the knees. Why? My squat looks better if I start with the knees but it's quite unconfortable until I've warmed up and I wonder why.......
Video request:Does training different lifts in different rep ranges affect the strength of those particular lifts.For example training the bench press in the 1-5 rep range and keeping the intensity fairly high.Then training the squat in the 8-12 rep range with lower percentages.How does the rep range effect maximal strength in those lifts.
You've mentioned that most people get stuck in the mid range in the bench. What are some good accessory to target that weak point? Thanks Greg!
How do you push through the mid range sticking point of the bench?
How best to unrack the bench press by yourself. Such as staying tight and not expending lots of energy to get the bar in place and so forth
Thor - bench with adjustable rack heights or power rack. Or use the glute bridge technique
A squat question: My front squat is very strong (120 kg max) compared to my back squat (135 kg max). That's more than the usual 80% ratio you mention in your "How to squat" seminar. What could be the reason for this and what can i do carry my front squat strength over to my back squat better?
What should you do if your sticking point is in the middle? Any spesific excercises or muscle groups that need strengthening?
Also, could weak upper back muscles hinder your bench gains? I noticed my upper back on my left side is quite weak, and its way harder for me to lift up with left arm than with my right.
Kirk Landau Wrong. Watch Izzy Narvaez's on weakness training
Please do a shoulder impingement video. I love OHP but anything over 135 hurts.
Greg,
When you have a rotator cuff injury, or other shoulder injury, do you recommend avoiding benching completely until the shoulder has fully recovered?
Should you bench light to retain good technique? Switch to dumbbell benching until healed?
What's you're recommended course of action?
How often do you think people should deload as part of a planned program? A lot of people advocate every 4-6 weeks while some don't at all until post meet recovery. Obviously it depends on the competency/competitive level of the lifter?
Could you talk a bit about rotator cuff pain, injuries and exercises that have more or less impact on them?
I have a question. I am doing an AB style general mass/just for health purposes program. I do squat bench and deadlift on both days and on A I then do seated db press, close grip pull down, ez tricep extension, standing ez curl and seated calf raise. B I do push press, low row, tricep pull down, hammer curl and calf raise. My question is for the B workout bicep exercise I was doing single arm isolation curl where you rest the elbow just above the knee but had to switch exercises because on my right arm when my arm came to just above parallel the ligament that runs down the pinky side of my fore arm would pop and feel like it was going to snap even with really light weights?? Any idea what may cause this, some kind of imbalance I have going on and any suggestions for exercises that will help this?? Thank you for the really good info you continue to share.
So running off this video, are there any accessory movements to help with the middle of the press besides something like board or pin presses?
do you think snatch grip deadlifts are comparable to deficits for ppl with extremely short arms and struggle with conventional
Hi Greg I've got another question on accessory. You mentioned the fact that overhead press wouldn't be a very efficient accessory for simply improving the bench press. I would like to know your opinion on using front squat to improve back squat and how much carryover is there? A short response will be greatly appreciated! Thank you in advance!
I'm an extremely poor substitute for Greg but thought I'd tell you my experience. For me it helped a lot! I think it all comes down to your weaknesses but mine was core strength/rigidity and this helped so much. Once I'd been doing fronts for awhile suddenly I felt a lot more solid and comfortable in the back squat. From what I've read of Greg's if you're having problem caving and generally struggle to remain strong and rigid this will be greatly beneficial. However if your weakness is in your hips/glutes my guess would be the transfer would be a lot less.
I'd like to hear more about the OHP on an anatomical level. I used to use it as an accessory exercise when I first started benching because I missed at the bottom of my bench, but I stopped doing it after getting some shoulder irritation. I cycled in some shoulder rotation work and more pulls to alleviate that in the past year, but I'm convinced if I try to go for OHP for too high of volume I'll get a slap tear again.
Is there anything wrong with OHP-ing with a suicide grip? I've seen people say it's unsafe to OHP with a suicide grip, but honestly it feels way more secure and sturdy than wrapping my thumb around the bar, and I never considered using suicide grip for flat bench.
Sorry if the question has already been asked but in what scenarios would you deem direct ab training useful for hypertrophy?
are whole body workouts every other day sustainable indefinitely?
If volume and intensity is adjusted accordingly, couldnt see why not
+Luca van Antwerpen just curious wondering if it's optimal training or not. Currently I'm doing the following:
A
Bench 3x4-8
Dips 1xf bw
Db press 3x15-20
Pull downs 1x15
Stand lat raise. 4x15
Squat 15-20
Deficit deadlift 1x20
Lunges 15-20
B
Deadlift 3-4x4-8
Bent over row 3x8
Pull-up 1xF
Bent rear delt 3x20*
Leg curl 3x10*
Back ext 4x20
Db bench 1x12
Inc bench 1x8-12
C
OHP 3x4-8
Dips 1x8-12
Seated lat raise 3x8
Db row 3x15-20*
Skulls 3x15*
Pushdowns 3x20*
Ez curl 3x15-20*
Squat 2x10
D
Squat 4x4
Leg press 4x8
SLDL 2x10
*Yates row 3x15-20
*seated rear delt 3x12
Weighted chins 4x5
Db incline 1x15
CG bench 1x15-20
E
Leg curl 1x20
Front squat 1x10
Back ext 2x12
High pulley fly 1x12-15
Pendlay row 1x6-8
Db curl 1x6-8
Rope ext 1x12
As I said earlier I do one day on and one off with "E" being a assistance/deload day.
Well, before i'd comment anything. Does it work? Are you getting closer to your goals with what your doing right now? (The question was is it sustainable but i think my question would be more important to ask)
+Luca van Antwerpen +Luca van Antwerpen so far the last 2 months it's been working. I've been progressing and haven't hit a wall as of yet. Sometimes because of my job I may miss a day but because they're whole body workouts it's not a huge deal when I miss a day. It fits my schedule and I haven't deteriorated so far.
Charlie Hulse Well if it works, i'd say don't change it. I'd personally do it diffrently. Just keep in mind if you stall, you should change some things. For example if you stall on your squats, you may want to change to high / low bar (depends on what youve been doing) or front squats as an example and keep doing these untill you stall. Same aplies for all your exercises, if you stall, change it and just keep repeating that everything you stall somewhere. That should help you keep progressing for longer.
Just out of interest, is it possible to have an acromion that is better suited to overhead pressing than bench pressing? For me, shoulder pressing makes my shoulders feel supple, but I get shoulder problems quite easily from benching.
My question is, if overhead pressing is not best accessory movement to increase bench press for most people, what is? Obviously, pin press, spoto press or floor press are great, but theyre just different variations of bench basically. Is there some specific accessory movement that you would recommend for most people that fail the lift somewhere on a midway up, like you said?
Thanks in advance
Midway fail is not a specific weakness of anything, you are just overall not strong enough to lift the weight. Anything that makes either your triceps or chest stronger will help, assuming you have already milked out any technique issues.
Hey, I can't dip with enough weight comfortably to make an impact; I fail at locking out. I've found that throwing in push presses really helped me.
,comfortably,*
how did u manage to add 90lbs to your OHP? How long did it take you to add the extra 90lbs to your OHP
Strengtheory podcast please!
Hey Greg!
I have a question on core bracing on the squat: How would you advise a lifter to improve their core bracing before descent? I find that on squats near max intensity, it becomes difficult to brace correctly, particularly on low bar. To explain the sensation: it sometimes seems as though the bar compresses the chest cavity enough such that it becomes difficult to get a full breath in. I generally brace before unracking, and take another bracing breath before I squat down. It is the second breath that is compromised at higher intensities.
Thanks so much!
He did an exhaustive video on the squat with Omar Isuf that I think is on Omar's channel. You should also check out the video that Cris Duffin did with Silent Mike on how to squat, he goes into great detail about bracing. I believe it is on both Cris Duffin and Mark Bell's channels.
most effective ways to autoregulate training volume? mike tuchscherer has TRAC and fatigue percents, others have used HRV. how valid are these methods?
What effect does stretching have on strength and power output?
Would you periodize the focus on the individual lifts througout a training period?
And if so, how?
So what should one do to increase the bench if they miss in the "normal" mid-range? Are partial range of motion exercises such as pin and board presses the go-to, or is just more bench pressing better?
Will you be doing a no weak links for the overhead press anytime soon?
Hi Greg, really interesting video! Would be great to hear your opinion on the most useful exercise to help with the more common sticking point in the bench. Thanks!
Is push press any good as an accessory for strict press ohp? I always finish off a couple more reps pushing after I've failed at a high weight on strict. I imagine it doesn't since I'm shoving it past the sticking point but I like doing it.
one more question. if the ohp didnt really do much to help you increase your bench, what accessory exercise did you use to help increase your bench? thanks
hey greg,
I have been trying to write my first volume block (2 months) of my first powerlifting program. I am an experienced lifter with very good form in all versions of the compound lifts including clean and jerk and snatch and have a 505 lbs Deadlift no belt at 190 lbs to give you an idea of where I am at. I would like to know what you consider to be the most important things to consider when making a volume block for powerlifting style training?
How significant is the impact of attempting to achieve maximal hypertrophy by adding heaps of volume in the form of accessory work on the overall effectiveness of strength programming
you will build more muscle, but less weight on the powerlifts. if you want to increase powerlifts, do more volume of them, look at andy Bolton. just tonnes of squats and conventional deadlifts, minimal accessory work.
Squatting and deadlifting the same day. Does it have good carryover to being able to have a good squat and deadlift on the platform?
Joshua Lup this is an old comment but in my case I'm actually stronger in deadlift when I squat heavy first. It took some time to get used to but I believe training this way would be beneficial as a powerlifter.
Hello Greg. Love your work!!! 5 lbs in 6 weeks? Would you not consider this good progress? Personally, if I could increase my bench by 5lbs every 6 weeks, I would be extremley happy. Rich.
Any advice/cues to help incorporate upper back rounding in the deadlift? I'm used to pull with straight back and have hard time actually rounding it now when i want to.
I bench 3 times a week. I choose in accessories overhead press and floor press. With that, I train shoulders and triceps ugly but what to take for my chest ? I think u promote dumbbel press but my gym just have max 40 kg dumbbell. I can do a lot of reps with that. :-/ I tested "deep dips" but it hurts shoulders. So, shall I go to just pec flies ? I could bench press more I know. ^^
Greg what's your thoughts on back of sets for example i doing a volume block at the moment working up to a top set of 6 followed by taking 10% of the bar for 2 sets of 8 love the content keep it coming
What different accessory lifts do you recommend for the different sticking points in the deadlift and why? Just off the floor is the most relevant for me but I imagine more would get something out of the video if you covered all of them.
stiff-legged paused deficit snatch-grip sumo deadlift with bands, AMRAP
will pull ups help your deadlift?
What about bicep tendonitis? Can OHP cause issues with tendonitis of the long head of the bicep? I'm having terrible pain and strength loss due to tendonitis. Ways to rehab would be a great video. Thanks for the info.
I've had issues with this in the past and it's frustrating as hell! Generally if it flared up I'd spend a couple of weeks using DBs instead to let it heal while working on shoulder and thoracic spine mobility. The main thing that helped me was going more high bar on the squat. It took me awhile to figure it out but the bicep tendonitis I thought was coming from bench/OHP was actually mainly being caused by low bar squatting, even if the pain was the worst on the upper body days the originally flaring up was the low bar squatting.
Even dumbbell press hurts at the moment. I'll try going highbar for a while. Thanks.
Nice one! Another binch question, do you recommend trying to put some external rotation on your shoulders when you lower the bar? Getting a cranky shoulder on the eccentric (without trying to "bend the bar") and some people seem to recommend this but haven't heard you say this before.
say someone has little room in their shoulder because of the acromion process. what would this feel like? i stopped OHpressing months ago due to should pain during the movement and don't want to reaggravate it. my poor delts not getting any love nowadays
Is direct core work necessary from a powerlifting standpoint? If so, what exercises do you recommend, and with what frequency, volume, time, etc.
My left elbow pops Everytime I try to do anything overhead with a minimal load, any ideas on why this is and what I can do fix it as I would love to over head press.
hammer curls. sounds weird but hammer curls can help with elbow problems
Does a bigger back really help for a bigger bench
125kg overhead press "semi respectable"..FML I just got 110kg and felt great. LOL my standards are too low Greg!
Monster Barbell 110 is good shit buds you should feel proud seriously
What is that in pound? And also, what is 195lbs in kg?
@@hippo6billion811 110kg is 242lbs, 195lbs is 88kg
Cheesy Hamburger google?
Hey Greg, can you use frequency as a form of periodization?
Greg,
I doubled my volume at a given intensity for squats and two weeks later have had to stop squatting because the area above my kneecaps was traumatized. Is this likely caused simply by adding too much too quick? The only other change I made was using an elevated heel squat shoe. Thanks in advance for your thoughts....or anyone else for that matter!
Yes it is. Your muscles adapt and recover fairly quickly, your joints don't.
Any benefits for push press?
Good video thanks man
What's your take on occlusion training? Is there real science behind it?
yep! strengtheory.com/blood-flow-restriction-the-holy-grail-for-accessory-work/
What are your thoughts on Smolov?
I really really want to up my behind the neck press. I do 15 sets of 8 a week of 80 pounds ( I am 5'4) . I go up too slowly, what do you recomend?
i take it you dont do 15 sets in a single session but divide it through the week? Try adding 5lbs a week untill you stall, when you do switch to another shoulder pressing variation (standing, seated, sitting, off pins, dumbells or barbells etc) and start anew with a decently challenging weight and keep repeating the process each time you stall. Also try to not only work in 1 kind of rep range. Increasing shoulder pressing strengtg can be really hard and time consuming, so consistency is key. Also make sure you do enouth rear delt and mobility work to keep your shoulders healthy
i take it you dont do 15 sets in a single session but divide it through the week? Try adding 5lbs a week untill you stall, when you do switch to another shoulder pressing variation (standing, seated, sitting, off pins, dumbells or barbells etc) and start anew with a decently challenging weight and keep repeating the process each time you stall. Also try to not only work in 1 kind of rep range. Increasing shoulder pressing strengtg can be really hard and time consuming, so consistency is key. Also make sure you do enouth rear delt and mobility work to keep your shoulders healthy
+Luca van Antwerpen thanks for advice :) . No, not the same day at all. 5 sets a day three days a week usually. Currently i am trying to increase volume on the left side by adding some dumbell presses to it, as it is kinda unbalanced. I think its actually coming up.
Hope it helps! If you have an imbalance i'd definitely recommend doing dumbell presses since you have to push each dumbell individualy
Considering the notice at 2:56, I'm betting that most people will now determine that their weak point in the bench press is just off the chest.
It's helped me. I struggle with bench more than my other lifts.
is that update to your books ever coming m8?
I really love your videos (and articles) Greg. By the way, the Bulgarian Manual changed my life :D
dope vid... your humanity is understood.
@Strengtheory
why is there still no acceptence of a plant based Diet amoung athletes or so little even tho the WHO and pretty much all big medical science institutions approve that you should minimize animal products for optimal funktion and against chronik disease?
thx
athletes typically arent pussies -- but sometimes they are, and you can find some like Vegan Gains around youtube
+John Constantin make America great again! Donald trump should build a wall to keep all the vegans and vegetarians out
Ryan Young a ~27 billion $ wall that is 20ft high and because I dont eat cholesterol and my cardiovascular system still works 100% i can climb over it with a rope and still will when i am 80 years old
and : says the guy from the fattest most unhealthy country with the most chronic diseases ever ....yeah donald should make everyone vegan that would make america great
John Constantin but I learned from south park that a side effect of veganism is a rash (its called vagititis) in the form of a bunch of small vaginas breaking out over most or all of your body. honestly id rather just take the cholesterol over that!