A heated bed to 90 degrees is a good start, a heated chamber to 90 degrees even better, a heated chamber to 104 degrees is the best. As with most filaments holding it just below its heat transition point is crucial for warp free printing.
A true rubber hub works better for vibration damage to the prop. Softens the torque between forward, reverse, and throttle changes. Also the rubber hub absorbs impacts. Excellent work gentlemen.
I noticed a bit of wind noise toward the end of the video. I've found the best way to correct this is to film in a country other than New Zealand. You're welcome.
What could be done to improve propeller strength and performance, is to change the "grain" or how the filament is laid down. If the propellers were made in a layered fashion, then the strength is not there and the propeller flexes until failure, as what the carbon fiber exhibited. Mentally imagine how the water flow presses on and flows around the propeller's curves and you'll understand what is needed to make an efficient, yet strong propeller.
it,s obvious that the splines will shear off as even in a piece of raw material, the result will be the same, a little bit of engineering would take care of that. it's a good demo of what can be done with 3d printing
Carbon fiber makes parts that are strong and stiff but brittle. Wood is basically cellulose fibers. It has some give to it making a part that is tough if not as strong as carbon. Jute or hemp makes longer fibers so that would make it tougher still if you could figure out how to 3D print without having to cut up the fibers. Polycarbonate is strong but won't live long in that environment. It dislikes hydrocarbons (really hates chlorinated hydrocarbons) and doesn't work will with a lot of UV. A good paint job could help.
In these filaments the fibers are not connected, making the material actually weaker because they have less plastic holding it together. You do get some wear resistance with CF but that is it. There is one printer out there that actually pushes entire fibers into the printed plastic which does make it a somewhat comparable to composite piece, although they still come apart at the layers.
The fibers make the plastic stiffer. They also can stop the propagation of a crack. Thus they can make a part "stronger" for some meanings of the term.
The hub of the original prop has a rubber band that surrounds a stainless or brass center to both reduce harmonics and give if you strike a submerged object. if you printed the props around the the core I just described, it be a great alternative to what's on the market today.
It is possible to make very strong propellers by 3d printing. The method to do that is not to scan a prop made of metal. Many things go wrong here. Material thicknesses are wrong and the geometry is not suited to more flexible material like plastic. What i believe is happening here is that the blades are flexing under load in a way that increases their angle of attack. This leads to severe fluttering of the blades and causes the tearing seen at the base of the blades. To correct the problems, the blades must be made thicker to compensate for the more flexible material used. Also the geometry must be altered in a way that causes the propeller to be more stable when deformed. If you look at plastic propellers found in many electric outboards for example, you'll notice they have a very pronounced backwards sweep on the blades. As a result of this geometry, when the blades are flexed their angle of attack is decreased and as a result the forces acting on the blade are decreased, resulting in a more stable propeller
"carbon fibre", more like carbon fibre bits held together by plastic. No, guys, you cant print with that and expect it to perform like a Formula 1 frame. It doesnt work that way. You need full fibers, very specific resins, and an autoclave to produce properly strong carbon fibre parts.
The carbon fiber "flocullant" has no give, so passes the sudden strains straight to the PLA, which has little strength. Even though it is not continuous fiber, it would help greatly in a stronger base material.
The carbon fiber filament has poor layer adhesion. For the fibers to add any strength they would need to be laid perpendicular to the 3d printer layers, which can't happen. The ABS worked so well because there was nothing blocking 100% adhesion between layers.
That is AMAZING! would love you to leave them on (obviously with the aluminium in the boat for back up) to see just how long they would last before failing. Great work guys!
Clone 3D Print why not machine an insert for splines that goes inside prop ? You could also change to lesser pitch on prop to put less torque on splines boat wouldnt go as fast , but isnt the idea that these are a lightweight spare to get you home if you break OEM prop and not permanent fix?
Now let them absorb water for an extended period of time and repeat the tests. My guess is the geometry of the part changes enough to cause the printed gear teeth to strip.
How do you find the removal of support material on overhangs? I would be so interested to know, I personally find support almost impossible to remove, I'd love to learn if I am doing something wrong.
Clone 3D Print Don't worry, that's a common thing with PETG. Layer adhesion in that plastic is just insane. My supports pull away pretty well, as I've increased the air gap setting in my slicer somewhat.
You should try plain PLA. That wood filament you tried, is PLA filled with wood particles. Filled filaments are never as strong as their base material. So PLA most likely will do much better than the wood pla one.
The carbon fiber was probably no weaker than the plain wood fill PLA, but that lacquer probably helped immensely. I'd wager that the wood+lacquer combo is actually stronger than plain PLA, but of course we won't know without testing.
sawdust is alot thicker, and not mixed with plastic. once you mix the materials into the plastic there are no fibers that combine, think of glitter in glue, once the glue dries it doesnt become solid glitter does it? no because there are particles of glue inbetween all the glitter, same with this stuff, carbon/wood filament has no actual strength increase because they are not strands of fibers, just dust.
metal tube inserts with splines on the outside and press fitted into the props should help make the hole in the prop bigger, keep the splines and have a machinist custom make some metal tubes to cut in the hole and lock in with the splines while still being large enough fore the hardware.
well done gents , but you might want to find out for yourself ?? why props have a rubber bushing ,??friction fitted between the shaft and the prop, ??? this still needs to be there regardless of what the pop is made of , cheers
I believe to get electrocuted the fence would need to be turned on ;) As this is inside a working premise the fence only operates outside of working hours, you did make me laugh though so I thank you very much for that :)
Even if it were on, you might be alright as long as your boots offer sufficient insulation. Some electric fences do have alternating live/earth wires (so touching two adjacent wires would shock you even if you weren't touching the ground), but I don't think they're as common, and it'd still be unlikely that water spray or rain could complete a circuit with someone standing a few feet away.
Whoa the Inspire is a beast:) But it, as the specs I red state - still does not support the carbon print:( But anyway, your vid evidently states the carbon mat is not so good under stress and I do need a stress resiliant mat.. So thanx, your vid was so informative that Im thinking of reporting you for posting something informative, well thought and deployed on youtube:) (Its a joke:))
If you can adjust the extruder temp (you can with the Up Box) you can print any filament, just the results differ, the results differ because of the printer environment, does it have a heated bed or heated chamber, those that don't have a heated bed are only really suited to PLA or Nylon to a degree, those with a heated bed to 90 degrees suit ABS, PLA, PET, Carbon and more to a point, a heated chamber will allow ABS, PC, Acetal, Ultem, PEEK and more. Some will say you need an all stainless nozzle to print carbon, sure if you are doing a lot of it but to run a 1 kg of material through a nozzle will in no way destroy it.
Scanning an aluminum prop engineered to the strengths of the material? Sounds like a potential market if you modify the printed prop to utilize the strengths of the materials you are printing it with.
I didn't need to watch the test to know the so called _"carbon fiber"_ print would fail. Carbon fiber filament is actually just PLA with some carbon fiber strands/shards mixed into it. The end result is that prints are much stiffer than regular/plain PLA prints however the trade-off is that prints are far more brittle and easier to fracture under load. In short, _"carbon fiber"_ filaments are definitely not what you want to use for parts intended to receive mechanical load. Polycarbonate is the 3d printing material king for that.
Why is carbon fiber so much more popular than pure PLA in motorsports and aerospace applications then? Is it because they're easier to fabricate or just that manufacturers are optimizing for stiffness/weight?
+Calvin Huang Where have you found PLA (pure or otherwise) being used in motorsports and aerospace applications? The carbon fiber used in those industries are carbon fiber reinforced composites, not carbon fiber infused PLA filament for FDM style 3d printing. PLA has a very low glass transition temperature. PLA is not an engineering plastic. If you placed a PLA 3d printed object in your car on a hot summers day, the heat would be sufficient for the print to permanently deform under its own weight. PLA's glass transition temperature is only ~55C, where as something like ABS is ~110C.
No worries. :) But there is now a desktop 3d printer that can FDM 3D print actual carbon fiber composite. I think the brand is called MarkForge. It's designed to print both pure carbon fiber composite and nylon (separately, one at a time) to produce prints with the best mechanical qualities of both materials. I also think it's in intended for real world engineering application if I'm not mistaken. Sorry. It's not $100k for this printer. The $100k is for their newest one that prints in metal. Their carbon fiber printers are actually not that unreasonably priced.
While it may be worth keeping a lightweight spare of a 3D printed prop, I doubt any plastics would survive under the stresses a metal propeller does. Would love to see what happens to the prints when they hit a rock. A metal propeller will bend and warp but for the most part will keep on going. Worried a plastic may shatter.
I've had issues with PLA. The "Carbon Fiber" is a gimmick in my opinion. It's "harder" but not more resilient. Polycarb is very superior if you make it right. I think the nylon would have shown to be even more resilient and able to take the stress loads much better than all of them.
Melinda Green because getting music for yt vids is very difficult and too expensive. Any free sample or track is always a plus. However repetitive loops get annoying v fast. I suspect they were desperate to disguise the wind and audio levels. cheers 👍
Remember that although some materials did not perform favourably in this test the prop was designed as a steel metal prop material . It may be that different materials require a different design to cope with different characteristics and when that is done the prop may prove to be a far better performer . Therefore , it is a great initial experiment but would be fantastic if the print can be made public so others can openly source new designs and test the running times so it may be comparable . Nice video.
Can you describe your polycarbonate printer setup? Sticking a Taz6 in a 100 C chamber isn't an option for me, and curious how you performed the prints. Thank you! Definitely following.
Good question... from experience 3D printed Nylon eg 618, Bridge or 910 is very flexible and also absorbs moisture like a sponge, while a Nylon propeller probably wouldn't break it would flex a lot which would affect performance. There are also issues with printing this shaped part as it requires a lot of support material, that in itself is not a problem but removing it post print certainly can be, warping with Nylon is also problematic.
@Dustin Eward The idea wasn't to pick a low revving engine with a high thrust prop, instead to just replace the prop of an outboard and see how it went, it worked pretty good for the most part. If we did the test again I think all of the materials would perform better as we now have a better understanding of what these materials need for optimum strength.
Overall, enjoyable video to watch but a bit cringey when referring to the filaments as (pure) carbon fiber and wood when they are both in fact PLA with shavings of carbon fiber and wood added to them. In both cases, these additives act to weaken the PLA when/if used in such a mechanical scenario such as this. Pure/Plain PLA would have done even better. Carbon fiber PLA is really really bad for this as it's only benefit is that it makes prints really really stiff but at the cost of making them really really brittle.
Absolutely correct, adding particles of fibre into filament adds no strength which I believe was evident here, apologies for the cringe worthy moments I know there are a few ;)
Yes it is but only to a point, 3% or something.. don't quote me ;) We didn't test Nylon here as it is very difficult to print complex shapes with... long story but Nylon via FDM printing is about as difficult as it gets for many reasons (yes I know you will find exceptions), also when printed via FDM it is very flexible, not so great for a prop.
EXCELLENT VIDEO!!! "Who would have thought". Really... but what a disappointment the carbon fiber prop failed sooo fast. In time I suspect that will change and wonder how Kevlar fibers added would do as I know Kevlar and Shoe Goo can support the metal blade in a coffee bean grinder and is much stronger than the original plastic used... And sure would be nice for the RC aircraft folks who use a gram scale to build with to have the weights for comparison as the "wood" held up and wonder if it was lighter in weight. But great job... very impressive to see what 3D printing is becoming. Polycarbonate is great for small quad copter frames as it's very durable, doesn't block you RF signal like carbon fiber does, relatively lightweight, and lets an LED light make it glow for night flying so wondering how close in strength a 3D laid up Polycarbonat structure is compared to the sheet Polycarbonat used.
Would have loved to see this clearer, the small test tub is fine for general use, but maybe a pool or a larger tub with a clear window would be awesome. Cool, vid.
A bigger spline on the wood would have been fine. Take the aluminum prop that's broken, mill the props down, and use the hub material to make round splines.
you guys forgot that center spline part isnt part of the propeler. It is made of different metal, that is atached to rubber by vulkanization and makes a singl part called silentblock. That silentblock is pressed into propeler. Without that silentblock, even aluminium propeler would ended up like the 3D printed ones, splines would be cleared away
Understood, however we wanted to test the entire part from a single material print, several points that have very different stresses... actually that wasn't discussed prior to filming but seems appropriate now ;) In fact we really didn't discuss anything prior to filming, we each printed a few props then turned up at a designated address and pressed record... ha ha, people including myself seem to like others being real with a hint (host) of nerves :) Thank you greatly for your comment.
If aluminum can withstand the forces needed, then both the carbon fiber and poly carbonate are more than qualified. That said, this is assuming it's industrial grade carbon fiber (I don't know how they'd go about pressure-treating it properly from a 3-D printer, but it looks like they simply chose to forego that crucial step).
Ahh and that is why one reason why the carbon fibre failed :) Printed carbon fibre is only very short strands unable to weave between layers, great for making a plastic brittle not strong.
Genius - you should dedicate a whole channel to testing out replacement engineering parts.
I really like that idea... that is on the list!
AGREED!! Love it
Question: if I wanted to print PC, do I just need a heated bed or do I need a heated chamber?
job vrolijk both
job vrolijk Both!
And a ventilation system.
just a heated bed, not clear that point en the vid
A heated bed to 90 degrees is a good start, a heated chamber to 90 degrees even better, a heated chamber to 104 degrees is the best. As with most filaments holding it just below its heat transition point is crucial for warp free printing.
A true rubber hub works better for vibration damage to the prop. Softens the torque between forward, reverse, and throttle changes. Also the rubber hub absorbs impacts. Excellent work gentlemen.
I noticed a bit of wind noise toward the end of the video. I've found the best way to correct this is to film in a country other than New Zealand. You're welcome.
Ha ha ha haaaa... I love your response... but really NZ is gods own paradise ;)
That was a really cool idea taken and tested in a real world environment - kudos!!!!
What could be done to improve propeller strength and performance, is to change the "grain" or how the filament is laid down. If the propellers were made in a layered fashion, then the strength is not there and the propeller flexes until failure, as what the carbon fiber exhibited.
Mentally imagine how the water flow presses on and flows around the propeller's curves and you'll understand what is needed to make an efficient, yet strong propeller.
it,s obvious that the splines will shear off as even in a piece of raw material, the result will be the same, a little bit of engineering would take care of that.
it's a good demo of what can be done with 3d printing
Carbon fiber makes parts that are strong and stiff but brittle.
Wood is basically cellulose fibers. It has some give to it making a part that is tough if not as strong as carbon. Jute or hemp makes longer fibers so that would make it tougher still if you could figure out how to 3D print without having to cut up the fibers.
Polycarbonate is strong but won't live long in that environment. It dislikes hydrocarbons (really hates chlorinated hydrocarbons) and doesn't work will with a lot of UV. A good paint job could help.
Ken Smith polycarbonate is the only choice in an emergency
urjnlegend
Why do you say that? Almost any plastic will do at low throttle. A polycarbonate+ABS blend is tougher than pure polycarbonate.
In these filaments the fibers are not connected, making the material actually weaker because they have less plastic holding it together. You do get some wear resistance with CF but that is it.
There is one printer out there that actually pushes entire fibers into the printed plastic which does make it a somewhat comparable to composite piece, although they still come apart at the layers.
The fibers make the plastic stiffer. They also can stop the propagation of a crack. Thus they can make a part "stronger" for some meanings of the term.
The hub of the original prop has a rubber band that surrounds a stainless or brass center to both reduce harmonics and give if you strike a submerged object. if you printed the props around the the core I just described, it be a great alternative to what's on the market today.
It is possible to make very strong propellers by 3d printing. The method to do that is not to scan a prop made of metal. Many things go wrong here. Material thicknesses are wrong and the geometry is not suited to more flexible material like plastic. What i believe is happening here is that the blades are flexing under load in a way that increases their angle of attack. This leads to severe fluttering of the blades and causes the tearing seen at the base of the blades.
To correct the problems, the blades must be made thicker to compensate for the more flexible material used. Also the geometry must be altered in a way that causes the propeller to be more stable when deformed.
If you look at plastic propellers found in many electric outboards for example, you'll notice they have a very pronounced backwards sweep on the blades. As a result of this geometry, when the blades are flexed their angle of attack is decreased and as a result the forces acting on the blade are decreased, resulting in a more stable propeller
"carbon fibre", more like carbon fibre bits held together by plastic. No, guys, you cant print with that and expect it to perform like a Formula 1 frame. It doesnt work that way. You need full fibers, very specific resins, and an autoclave to produce properly strong carbon fibre parts.
The carbon fiber "flocullant" has no give, so passes the sudden strains straight to the PLA, which has little strength. Even though it is not continuous fiber, it would help greatly in a stronger base material.
I don't think It's "fiber" at all. It's much more like "carbon powder" or "Charcoal dust".
You are absolutely correct, I think we showed that in the video ;)
Adding Carbon Fiber to Nylon does make it stronger though. Take a look at Matterhackers Carbon Fiber Nylon filament.
disappointing to see the kill cord not being used, especially as you were testing props.
The carbon fiber filament has poor layer adhesion. For the fibers to add any strength they would need to be laid perpendicular to the 3d printer layers, which can't happen. The ABS worked so well because there was nothing blocking 100% adhesion between layers.
I had been thinking about 3D print a prop for my Evinrude. Everyone thinks I'm crazy to even try. Thank you for this video. I may go ahead and try it.
Everett Green share your try with us! :)
Everett Green never try it, the prop is heavy to reduce rpm of your engine
True, but should be able to compensate with a steeper pitch which is what I'm wanting to do.
Probably a good idea to have a few spares handy just in case it breaks.
Oh yeah, wold definitely have one of the originals on board.
That is AMAZING! would love you to leave them on (obviously with the aluminium in the boat for back up) to see just how long they would last before failing. Great work guys!
This needs more views, good work
Clone 3D Print why not machine an insert for splines that goes inside prop ? You could also change to lesser pitch on prop to put less torque on splines boat wouldnt go as fast , but isnt the idea that these are a lightweight spare to get you home if you break OEM prop and not permanent fix?
On my Porsche I use a 3D printed intake system!
But it's SLS, not PLA!
People wouldn't believe it would work... and now I'm selling them!
Now let them absorb water for an extended period of time and repeat the tests. My guess is the geometry of the part changes enough to cause the printed gear teeth to strip.
Aw.... I really wish there was a PETG print that was tested :/
How do you find the removal of support material on overhangs? I would be so interested to know, I personally find support almost impossible to remove, I'd love to learn if I am doing something wrong.
Clone 3D Print Don't worry, that's a common thing with PETG. Layer adhesion in that plastic is just insane. My supports pull away pretty well, as I've increased the air gap setting in my slicer somewhat.
Drill out the wooden core and glue an aluminum core into it. Maybe put 3 channels in the wood prop to secure it to the core better.
You should try plain PLA. That wood filament you tried, is PLA filled with wood particles. Filled filaments are never as strong as their base material. So PLA most likely will do much better than the wood pla one.
The carbon fiber was probably no weaker than the plain wood fill PLA, but that lacquer probably helped immensely. I'd wager that the wood+lacquer combo is actually stronger than plain PLA, but of course we won't know without testing.
*****
It really isn't a "maybe". It's a fact. There are no fibers btw, it's all dust.
sawdust is alot thicker, and not mixed with plastic. once you mix the materials into the plastic there are no fibers that combine, think of glitter in glue, once the glue dries it doesnt become solid glitter does it? no because there are particles of glue inbetween all the glitter, same with this stuff, carbon/wood filament has no actual strength increase because they are not strands of fibers, just dust.
also, pla is much more brittle and alot less strong compared to ABS+ so i dont know why they thought abs+ was the one to watch out for....
hi! great video and great idea!! may I ask how did you produce the PLC part, was it FDM or some other techniques? and what printer did you use?
metal tube inserts with splines on the outside and press fitted into the props should help make the hole in the prop bigger, keep the splines and have a machinist custom make some metal tubes to cut in the hole and lock in with the splines while still being large enough fore the hardware.
That would certainly work for a long term approach, great thinking!
you could try a pressed in bushing like the normal props.
Cavitation is going to kill it.
well done gents , but you might want to find out for yourself ?? why props have a rubber bushing ,??friction fitted between the shaft and the prop, ??? this still needs to be there regardless of what the pop is made of , cheers
has anyone else noticed these guys splashing large amounts of water near an electric fence and stand in it?
I didn't notice the fence lol
danz409 excellent observation! theyre kiwis.... nuff said
danz409 so if it rains you can't stand near an electric fence?
I believe to get electrocuted the fence would need to be turned on ;) As this is inside a working premise the fence only operates outside of working hours, you did make me laugh though so I thank you very much for that :)
Even if it were on, you might be alright as long as your boots offer sufficient insulation. Some electric fences do have alternating live/earth wires (so touching two adjacent wires would shock you even if you weren't touching the ground), but I don't think they're as common, and it'd still be unlikely that water spray or rain could complete a circuit with someone standing a few feet away.
For god sakes guys, buy a $5 windscreen!
Should be a You Tube rule!
why not just 3d print it 😂😂
Yes, 3D print a dead cat.
@@nicolacasali8304 late reply but its probably possible with an array of meshes :P and airgaps
I would love to see the same thing with these props done again but all of them fitted with an aluminum sleeve glued inside for the splines.
I'm impressed. I always heard that the wood infused PLA was weak, so I was surprised it held up so well in this test.
It's really strong, so surprised myself!
I wish you had tried PETG as well.
I wonder if the PLA prop still would break if they baked the prop first in the oven for 30/50 minutes at 80/100 degrees.
Carbon fibre have grains direction. The stress have to be along that direction to be effective.
torque wrench for a truly fair comparison , over tightening could distort the material an weaken it
Can we have the stl file or is it on thingiverse?
Awesome, a real test of 3D printed objects for daily use, not just toys.
What printer was used to print the parts?
Glorious_Britannia no the parts seem to big
I noticed they dont officialy support carbon fiber printing on the upbox (at least its not in the description, unless carbon fiber is ABS+)?:)
The majority were printed on an Up Box, one was on an Inspire D290.
Whoa the Inspire is a beast:) But it, as the specs I red state - still does not support the carbon print:( But anyway, your vid evidently states the carbon mat is not so good under stress and I do need a stress resiliant mat.. So thanx, your vid was so informative that Im thinking of reporting you for posting something informative, well thought and deployed on youtube:) (Its a joke:))
If you can adjust the extruder temp (you can with the Up Box) you can print any filament, just the results differ, the results differ because of the printer environment, does it have a heated bed or heated chamber, those that don't have a heated bed are only really suited to PLA or Nylon to a degree, those with a heated bed to 90 degrees suit ABS, PLA, PET, Carbon and more to a point, a heated chamber will allow ABS, PC, Acetal, Ultem, PEEK and more. Some will say you need an all stainless nozzle to print carbon, sure if you are doing a lot of it but to run a 1 kg of material through a nozzle will in no way destroy it.
How about testing a CNC aluminum prop? A good 5-Axis could spit out 15 of them in the time it takes to print just one of these plastic props.
Scanning an aluminum prop engineered to the strengths of the material? Sounds like a potential market if you modify the printed prop to utilize the strengths of the materials you are printing it with.
I didn't need to watch the test to know the so called _"carbon fiber"_ print would fail. Carbon fiber filament is actually just PLA with some carbon fiber strands/shards mixed into it. The end result is that prints are much stiffer than regular/plain PLA prints however the trade-off is that prints are far more brittle and easier to fracture under load. In short, _"carbon fiber"_ filaments are definitely not what you want to use for parts intended to receive mechanical load.
Polycarbonate is the 3d printing material king for that.
Why is carbon fiber so much more popular than pure PLA in motorsports and aerospace applications then? Is it because they're easier to fabricate or just that manufacturers are optimizing for stiffness/weight?
+Calvin Huang Where have you found PLA (pure or otherwise) being used in motorsports and aerospace applications? The carbon fiber used in those industries are carbon fiber reinforced composites, not carbon fiber infused PLA filament for FDM style 3d printing. PLA has a very low glass transition temperature. PLA is not an engineering plastic. If you placed a PLA 3d printed object in your car on a hot summers day, the heat would be sufficient for the print to permanently deform under its own weight. PLA's glass transition temperature is only ~55C, where as something like ABS is ~110C.
Ah, I assumed they used the same type of carbon fiber composite as used in motorsports.
No worries. :)
But there is now a desktop 3d printer that can FDM 3D print actual carbon fiber composite. I think the brand is called MarkForge. It's designed to print both pure carbon fiber composite and nylon (separately, one at a time) to produce prints with the best mechanical qualities of both materials. I also think it's in intended for real world engineering application if I'm not mistaken.
Sorry. It's not $100k for this printer. The $100k is for their newest one that prints in metal. Their carbon fiber printers are actually not that unreasonably priced.
While it may be worth keeping a lightweight spare of a 3D printed prop, I doubt any plastics would survive under the stresses a metal propeller does. Would love to see what happens to the prints when they hit a rock. A metal propeller will bend and warp but for the most part will keep on going. Worried a plastic may shatter.
Pretty Cool. When Cadding up make modeling adjustment to stress points on each propella. Maybe add strips of Nylon or Fishing line in those areas.
awesome video. love to see more from you. good to see some real life uses for scanners and printers. thanks for the content
I've had issues with PLA. The "Carbon Fiber" is a gimmick in my opinion. It's "harder" but not more resilient. Polycarb is very superior if you make it right. I think the nylon would have shown to be even more resilient and able to take the stress loads much better than all of them.
should have tried petg and nylon.
Excellent display of how durable PLA really is.
The carbon fiber is very finicky when it comes to how it is printed.. it may even require a special hot ends with a hardened tip
Why does every video seem to need a background musical loop? This one drove me nuts.
i had to mute :/
Melinda Green because getting music for yt vids is very difficult and too expensive. Any free sample or track is always a plus. However repetitive loops get annoying v fast. I suspect they were desperate to disguise the wind and audio levels.
cheers 👍
Melinda Green It wasn't too loud but still haha
I wish everyone would just leave out the musical backgrounds, but I guess people expect it now.
Melinda Green lol
Remember that although some materials did not perform favourably in this test the prop was designed as a steel metal prop material . It may be that different materials require a different design to cope with different characteristics and when that is done the prop may prove to be a far better performer . Therefore , it is a great initial experiment but would be fantastic if the print can be made public so others can openly source new designs and test the running times so it may be comparable . Nice video.
What was rhe cost and print time for each?
not a question of plastic strength just reinventing and engineering... the splines were designed for metal and too small.
So true!
Nice demo, thanks!
Can you describe your polycarbonate printer setup? Sticking a Taz6 in a 100 C chamber isn't an option for me, and curious how you performed the prints. Thank you! Definitely following.
With some care you can print this on a desktop printer in Polycarbonate, Heated bed to 110 degC and 0.25mm layer height to suppress warping.
Informative & entertaining :O) Thank you for the show.. Cheers
I wonder how well Taulman nylon or PETG would hold up ?
Good question... from experience 3D printed Nylon eg 618, Bridge or 910 is very flexible and also absorbs moisture like a sponge, while a Nylon propeller probably wouldn't break it would flex a lot which would affect performance. There are also issues with printing this shaped part as it requires a lot of support material, that in itself is not a problem but removing it post print certainly can be, warping with Nylon is also problematic.
@Dustin Eward The idea wasn't to pick a low revving engine with a high thrust prop, instead to just replace the prop of an outboard and see how it went, it worked pretty good for the most part. If we did the test again I think all of the materials would perform better as we now have a better understanding of what these materials need for optimum strength.
It wood of been nice to see you use a torque wrench maybe to prevent cracking.
Good job. It takes a lot to get to the point you guys are.
Was these prints solid or filled %
Kasper Nørgaard yeah was they?
urjnlegend They haven't answered yet😊
The prints were classed as Semi Solid, an infill or crosshatch of 0.5mm, this would equate to around 80-90% infill with this particular model.
Thank you for this test very good now I know which materials to choose from.
Overall, enjoyable video to watch but a bit cringey when referring to the filaments as (pure) carbon fiber and wood when they are both in fact PLA with shavings of carbon fiber and wood added to them. In both cases, these additives act to weaken the PLA when/if used in such a mechanical scenario such as this. Pure/Plain PLA would have done even better. Carbon fiber PLA is really really bad for this as it's only benefit is that it makes prints really really stiff but at the cost of making them really really brittle.
And to throw in another variable, he lacquered the wood/PLA prop. That no doubt helped it quite a bit, possibly making it stronger than PLA by itself.
PterodactylDanceParty Perhaps but I'm inclined to think more likely not.
DrR1pper if the carbon fiber were vaccum formed, it would have lasted the longest
urjnlegend Carbon fiber *PLA* is not remotely comparable to carbon fiber reinforced polymer and for starters, you can't vacuum form it.
Absolutely correct, adding particles of fibre into filament adds no strength which I believe was evident here, apologies for the cringe worthy moments I know there are a few ;)
Nicely done. I too would like to see plain PLA tested. I was surprised the ABS did not hold up as well as the wood fill pla.
Isn't nylon hydroscopic ?
Yes it is but only to a point, 3% or something.. don't quote me ;) We didn't test Nylon here as it is very difficult to print complex shapes with... long story but Nylon via FDM printing is about as difficult as it gets for many reasons (yes I know you will find exceptions), also when printed via FDM it is very flexible, not so great for a prop.
EXCELLENT VIDEO!!! "Who would have thought". Really... but what a disappointment the carbon fiber prop failed sooo fast. In time I suspect that will change and wonder how Kevlar fibers added would do as I know Kevlar and Shoe Goo can support the metal blade in a coffee bean grinder and is much stronger than the original plastic used...
And sure would be nice for the RC aircraft folks who use a gram scale to build with to have the weights for comparison as the "wood" held up and wonder if it was lighter in weight. But great job... very impressive to see what 3D printing is becoming. Polycarbonate is great for small quad copter frames as it's very durable, doesn't block you RF signal like carbon fiber does, relatively lightweight, and lets an LED light make it glow for night flying so wondering how close in strength a 3D laid up Polycarbonat structure is compared to the sheet Polycarbonat used.
This was a great experiment. I was rooting for carbon Fibre, and was very surprised that it failed. Wonder if HIPS would have done better ?
That was a ton of fun! Or as you guys might say "Tonne of fun". Thanks for the video. I subscribed. Can't wait to see more!
Thanks so much! I can't wait to make more... just need to clean my desk...
Классное видео! Всегда было интересно так протестировать! )
Approx how long did it take to 3-D print the various props?
Roughly 16 hours each.
Only in NZ you would test material strength with a boat. Excellent video guys!
You two guys are funny...Made me laugh ... Good work guys
Shucks... thanks!
Good on you boys !
The cavitation is what killed the prop basically small explosions from the air entering really needed a bigger tank to test it in
Great video guys, would love to come over and see what u guys are up to now...
Excellent video boys!
Thanks mate!
It would have been informative to have recorded the actual thrust at prop when it failed.
Would have loved to see this clearer, the small test tub is fine for general use, but maybe a pool or a larger tub with a clear window would be awesome.
Cool, vid.
Very nice test and a good, pleasant team!
Thanks so much!
One Question:
Can I print polycarbonate with just a heated bed or do I *need* to have a heated chamber?
This looked like it was gonna be rubbish, but turned out to be a decent video! interesting stuff guys! thumbs up :-)
wish these guys made more videos
Very cool..like his shirt too.
FFS put some sort of foam on top of the camera's microphone!
Or, preferably, rycote softies, since foam won't be enough for high wind environments.
A bigger spline on the wood would have been fine. Take the aluminum prop that's broken, mill the props down, and use the hub material to make round splines.
Really nice test.
Never would have thought homemade 3d printer stuff to be this strong.
It can be with good design, you just need to know the limitations and exploit the benefits ;)
Nice video Hayden , wood with epoxy coating next
you guys forgot that center spline part isnt part of the propeler. It is made of different metal, that is atached to rubber by vulkanization and makes a singl part called silentblock. That silentblock is pressed into propeler. Without that silentblock, even aluminium propeler would ended up like the 3D printed ones, splines would be cleared away
Understood, however we wanted to test the entire part from a single material print, several points that have very different stresses... actually that wasn't discussed prior to filming but seems appropriate now ;) In fact we really didn't discuss anything prior to filming, we each printed a few props then turned up at a designated address and pressed record... ha ha, people including myself seem to like others being real with a hint (host) of nerves :) Thank you greatly for your comment.
You cant print strong carbon fibre parts, its more like carbon powder with epoxy.
great video. keep up the good work.
nice video, good work! do you sell the wooden prop? I need one for a projeckt with my drill. thanks
Would have loved to see PLA.
Hallo.
Did you use 100% in full? What was your layer height?
This is awesome never knew it is possible.
just one question? do i need a heated chamber for polycarbonate, that wasnt very clear in the video
I enjoyed the video and hope to see more to come.
Thanks so much! I hope to make more :)
Perfect Video! Can you show how to produce this part well? I need a simular peace and i am unsure how to produce it so smooth. Thanks^^
Now put it on a 250 hp Honda!
you didnt test a PLA part. I think this could have worked very well. all the same its a very interesting test. love it.
impressive i really didn't think they would do nearly as well as they did. :)
It looks like the carbon fiber prop hit the camera at around 3:30, no? Could be the actual reason it failed?
If aluminum can withstand the forces needed, then both the carbon fiber and poly carbonate are more than qualified.
That said, this is assuming it's industrial grade carbon fiber (I don't know how they'd go about pressure-treating it properly from a 3-D printer, but it looks like they simply chose to forego that crucial step).
Ahh and that is why one reason why the carbon fibre failed :) Printed carbon fibre is only very short strands unable to weave between layers, great for making a plastic brittle not strong.
They should have an endurance race with different materials.
I'm very interested in getting more in depth information, about your double prop system, for a hovercraft..