San mai by hand - forging a san mai knife with a hammer
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- Опубліковано 29 лип 2024
- Lets hand forge a san mai knife with a hammer! San mai by hand is easier than you might think. We start with 2 different types of steel, a core layer and an outer layer, san mai is essentially a laminated steel product. I like to use metals that will give you a striking contrast in color between the 2 steels. For this san mai knife I chose to use 1084 for the core and 15n20 for the outer cladding. The 1084 will darken and the 15n20 should stay bright giving it some good contrast. The goal here is to show you that you don't need anything more than a forge and a hammer to make san mai by hand!
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#sanmai
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#sanmaiknife - Навчання та стиль
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I will admit, I had several failures leading up to making this video! I wanted to showcase the method I adopted that actually works, hopefully saving you some of the learning curve! Did you find it informative?
Where do you buy your steel?
New Jersey steel baron
@@Aleeknives awesome thank you so much
Thanks for this video and all the others. I am new to forging knifes and I learn a lot from UA-cam videos. It helps to understand how some cool effects are made and how to avoid some mistakes. It’s good to see how even experienced knife makers make mistakes and struggle with the craft.
I really like it when makers show their mistakes. It really helps with the learning process. As Bob Ross would say these are just happy little mistakes.
Why would anyone give this a thumbs down? Such a helpful video, I cant wait to try this myself.
Thanks Garret! I don't understand people either! I don't let it get me down. Glad you liked it!
I'm still getting the process down lol. I'm gonna be releasing my Sundays vlog on Monday because of this. Let's just say I hope 3rd times a charm.
3rd time was a charm for me too! Then I did it a couple more before I made a video just to be sure!
I appreciate your transparency about what you'd do differently. That said, you did remind me of several things I'd filed away in the dark recesses of my memory that I'd effectively forgotten about, so thanks!
Man I'm just a normal guy working my way through learning all this stuff too
What I really love about your channel is you still show your mistakes, proving that not everything goes exactly perfect, unlike some channels where everything is always perfect and we all know that's not the truth. "Oh this is my first knife" and it looks absolutely perfect. And we all know that's BS.
So true! Thank you for your support!
I think it is pretty clever that you had the forge in front of your anvil. I may have to try this in my forge as a trial run for when forge weld to save time. Thanks for the idea godbless and forge on.
San mai can be used for aesthetic but it function is an opportunity for even harder blades and easy maintenance (Sharpening)
Anyway a beautiful blade .
Thank you!
I appreciate your honesty on the issues and problems you can't fix so that I can keep some mental notes. Working on my first san mai blade and I was sure to try to forge each side equally to try to get an even reveal. I enjoy your teaching style and approach. Thank you.
great video, thanks for sharing. I know that some old school makers use acid like white vinegar or PH Down to soften the scale so they can wire wheel it off. Jason Knight uses a sand blaster with glass media to remove the scale. I imagine those would be good options on thinner billets to conserve material.
Those are really good ideas and valuable information! Thanks man!
It's a great job!! my friend!
Thank you sir! 👊
Not bad Aerin. At least you show your mistakes aswell as your sucesses. Everydays a learning curve. Little tip on the scratches. Dont hold the blade and go back and forth, it will create fish hook scratches. Sand in one direction, then move, to a clean piece of paper. I think you do that anyway when your doing your polished blades. Just treat etched blades the same, in fact even more so as the etchant will realy show them up. I think if you did an extra few layers the rain drop pattern realy would have stood out. Have the core, and outer sleeves thick, and the inner layers thinner, will have a great contrast.
Yes sir, a huge learning curve!
Thank you !! Can’t wait to try this!! You explained it very well so a old man like me can follow along!!
I am going to do a couple more videos of forging projects similar to this one!
Hey boss, just ground out my first knife last night after watching your 10 part video guide (which I have since recommended to friends), and it went well! All the info you provided was great. That said, I goofed up the angles on the blade after going for a saber grind, but that’s just a matter of experience. Thanks again for your help, and great new vid.
The cool thing about doing those types of grinds is that if you goof it up you can always do a full flat grind! Sometimes I think those grinds are actually more difficult trying to keep everything symmetrical. Great job jumping in and grinding your first knife!
I love a San mai blade I actually prefer it over the random demascus patterns that I see keep it up man
Me too!
Beautiful.
Thanks Dominic!
Love seeing you do more forging. I’m jealous of that anvil! I was thinking when I saw your steels that you’d want thicker cladding cause your core doesn’t compress as much. Also next time etch it as your grinding so you can center the core. We learn on every build though! ❤️
ooh that is a really great idea! I will definitely do that! I wanted to try a light forging project to see how my elbow would fair. I finished up with zero pain so it looks like I have given it enough time to heal up! YESSSSSS buddy!
I just want ot come over with some shop sweepings and toss them around your shop... my god the cleanliness
🤣😂🤣 that would drive me batty
love it, learning curve there for us all!
You got that right! The next one will be marketably better! Thanks for watching!
Flux protects the steel from scale. It benefits you to put it on when hot but not at scale temps (red) to coat the steel and keep scale from forming. Once you have a scale-less piece you keep fluxing to keep it that way. If you get scale on tour steel and then put flux on, you might blast some scale off, but it’s better to start clean and keep clean than to start dirty and hope to clean as you go.
Solid advice, thank you!
Beautiful blade love the contrast between the 15n20 and the 1084 . Came out great. Can’t wait to see part 2
Thank you! Part 2 is going to be awesome! Thanks for watching!
It's a good pearing knife
Totally!
Thank you! As someone new to the craft this was a super helpful video. Subscribed before I finished it.
Thank you! I appreciate the sub, I hope some of the videos here help!
Just wanna say that i've never heard about dry welding before this. Always used borax and it was messy and there was always a seam left somewhere. Yesterday i used your method and it welded perfectly. Thank you.
That's fantastic! Thanks for sharing back! I am glad it worked!
Thanks for keeping it real with us.
I try! I could edit it but I like the real feel myself
What I've done in the past is, make a damascus billet and either cut & stack or hot split it and forge weld the core, then draw it out. But just remember, if you learned something.. it's was a success. ;)
That is a super idea! I am going to try that this weekend! Thanks for watching!
Dude! That's so freakin cool. I want it in my kitchen
I want to do a stainless san mai like Denis @tyrellknifeworks
Although that didn’t turn out as you would have liked, I think it’s still going to be a cracking tool. As you say, an awesome slicer!
As you know, I have zero experience with san mai, but I did think the 15N20 looked thinner than the 1084, and wondered what problems this might give you, if any.
Looking forward to seeing part 2, brother. Always impressed with your work!
🇬🇧🤜🏻⚡️🤛🏻🇺🇸
Thanks man! I will be experimenting with different sizes and shapes of steel. Let's see what we can come up with! Have a great day man!
@@Aleeknives
You too, buddy 👊🏻😎
I am going to launch a video on Wednesday this week also!
@@Aleeknives
That’ll be the perfect antidote for a busy day!
I’ll be there, you can count on that! 🤘🏻😎🤘🏻
Thank you!
You mentioned that next time you would use thicker 15N20 on the outside, I would just like to share a thought on that.
Unless you forge the overall thickness of the three materials down to the same thickness you had here, you will just be adding more material to grind away. Assuming that in the end your final product has all the same dimensions as this one. If the core stays the same thickness and you grind to the same shape your end result could be the same and more dust around your grinder.
You probably have already thought of that, but figured I'd mention it just in case it helps anyone.
Nice looking blade by the way.
The idea behind using thicker 15n20 would have allowed me to get the raindrop pattern to work and come to the surface.
Coffee etch give wondeful results.beautiful san mai slicer.👍👍🔥🔥
Thank you so much 😊 This was the most dramatic change I had ever seen with using the coffee! Thanks for watching!
sweet looking blade my friend. love the videos! you do an excellent job.
Thank you! I am just having a blast bringing you guys along as I make this stuff!
Nice work
Thank you! Cheers! My arm is finally healed up enough to forge again!
Dude I absolutely loved this video
That's awesome Rich! I'm doing the same process right now to create a giant chef knife wait till that video comes out! I'm glad that you enjoyed it
I don't currently have a welder but my gas forge gets hot! Superfast can you possibly show me how to make a san mai billet using tie wire?
Sure I can definitely do that! I know Eric rivers over at Rivers experience just did a cumai billet with wire and he did a really nice job with it if you want to check that out until I can get a video made for you
Awesome man, I want to specialize in chef knives because of the huge market and San Mai is where it's at!!!
True but my suggestion would be to create what you like to make not what you think people want to buy.
Nice work dude, i tried making my first san mai billet a couple days ago but it delaminated so much that it was not useable for a knife. Gonna keep trying tho!
Thanks for the great video
That was my first couple of attempts! Surface prep and high enough heat to weld are the ingredients for success man!
@@Aleeknives Yeah i guess it was mainly the even heat i was missing. im going to try moving it around more in the coalforge next time
I think it's always worth another try, I didn't get one to weld properly till my 5th try!
Nice anvil
Thanks Don! I had it brought over from Austria
I like the way it turned out. That ebony handle will look good. We exchanged emails a few months back about my kukri, I just sent you some pics of it finished.
Awesome can't wait to see it!
Do you think the drilling of the holes contributed anything to the pattern?
Absolutely, however, it would have worked way better using thicker stock
Enjoyed the video mate and your presentation style 👍👍
Thank you Paul! I appreciate that! Much more to come
Do you think lapping the pieces would have an effect of the welding proccess?
Good question
Well I dunno Al... after that puuko you made... that’s a darn tough act to follow! I am thinking that will be a great hunter or camp knife when you’re done. 😊👍
😁 thanks man! I will try my best! I am going to step outside my comfort zone on this one
فكرة ....اذا تم قطع ..دوائر ...تناسب القطع المعدنية ...النقود ....كيف يصبح القطعة ....السكين ما هي الوانها
Thank you!
Just want to ask your reasoning for drilling into the billet? If you're not folding and forge welding the billet, I can't see how it will make any difference to the pattern..... as there isn't one. Only really effects the pattern of a damascus billet that gets folded and drawn out, as the layers sink into the holes, which will create a different pattern when etched. Lovely knife though, mate 👌🔥⚒️
2 quick questions… Without welding, what type of wire can I use to hold the steel pieces together?
And, you welded on a handle. What if I don’t have a welder, what do I use as a handle? Just use tongs to hold onto the billet?
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What was the point of drilling the holes? All you have done is leave unsightly pit marks in the blade....That point aside really well done and keep the content coming, I really enjoy the videos!
Thanks man! If the outer cladding was thicker the holes would have added an entirely new layer of design in the pattern and you would not have seen any unsightly pit. Think of raindrop pattern Damascus, that is how it is made.
How did you get the black color and what are those solutions in which the knife was immersed. Thank you
R he solution is ferric chloride and distilled water. The blCk comes from the difference in steel used
Awesome video. Im trying to get into forging knives (bought one for my channel) and your video is very helpful. I dont have the same awesome tools you have but I think I can find alternative solutions. (I do really want a welder after watching this vid haha) Subbed to your channel and look forward to your content
Thank you! You can pick up a welding machine really reasonably. I strongly recommend it! I am headed over to check out your channel now! Thanks for the sub
@@Aleeknives I may take your advice on the welding machine.
Im still a rookie when it comes forging along with smelting (how my channel started to document my journey). Why I been searching all over YT to gain knowledge.
Why your channel came up during my random looking around.
Do you have a recommended source for your handle materials? You seem to acquire some nice materials. My local places are very hit and miss. Nice tutorial as always, I haven’t been brave enough to pattern weld yet but I did get a bunch of 1084 and 15n20 in my last steel order for when I finally decide to brave it.
Thanks man! I actually buy a ton of materials on ebay! Also facebook handle material groups have been awesome
Olá, sou Brasileiro, não sei se compreende meu idioma, mas gostaria de saber a espessura (mm) das chapas que você usou!!! Ótimo trabalho!!!
first time viewer and new subscriber, thanks for the great video!
That's fantastic! Glad to have you! Cheers
What dimensions were the plates you started with? Width and thickness mainly
Great work! Make it look easy. I’m curious where did you get your anvil and about how much did it cost? I’m looking for one myself.
i bought my anvil in an auction over seas in Austria. I had it shipped to Kansas city by sea and train. The anvil weighs 550lbs and I paid $1,200.00 for the anvil and $1,600.00 for shipping. I had originally agreed to $500 for shipping but once it hit the shores of the united states everyone started extorting me on pricing. That was dismal but in the end I do have an amazing anvil!
When you drill for patterns, can you tell when you get to the core?
Not really, I needed thicker material for this to have worked
What thickness did you use for the 1084 and 15N20? what would you recommend? I was planning on this for my next project. I have some 1084 and 15N20 i bought a while ago to try some simple damascus as I don't have a press or power hammer either :P
I have tried a lot of different thickness materials. One observation I jave made is that during forging the outer layers move more than the center layer. Use thicker steel on the outer layers
Hi
Hello! Cheers
Can you twist go Mai?
Go mai means 5 layers, I bet you could twist it
Hi buddy, got one more subscriber here..interested in san mai forging, about to try one though. Your billet looks so white on the video when you took it out of your forge. I wonder if the billet looks really white in real time when it reaches forging temperature? I dont have a forge thermometer so i would have to judge it by its color. Thanks for your tips.
The forge welding temp can be hard to achieve with some propane forges. I had to coat the inside of my forge with a special reflective coating to get the heat high enough to forge weld. It will be a super bright yellow. If it starts sparkling you got it to hot but that is pretty hard to do in a propane forge. The camera color is not accurate at all.
Thanks for the sub!
Just got my forge done today, had a nice test run. I opted for a mud kiln powered by charcoal and an electric blower just for heat treatment, but after seeing your vid of san mai done by hand hammer, i was so excited to try doing it too. Thanks a lot buddy
Hi Aaron, I have been watching the art of craftsmanship / the river’s experience / house work and of course your UA-cam channel since I made my first knife at the beginning of the covid lockdown in England.
I have since sold about 30 knives and still going strong. YOU Have been a big part of my small success , would love to send you some pictures of my work for an honest opinion but don’t know how to.
Keep up the good work.
Tim Tallent (. TTKNIVES )
I would love that Tim! Airinlee@swbell.net
Hello Airin, Again, I congratulate you for your clean and meticulous work. I guess you were inspired by the latest knife Bigunas made. He looks very polite. What color do you think for the hilt, I'll be waiting with anxiety. Hands of health master.👍👌🙌🙂
Thank you! I am stepping way outside my comfort zone on the guard and handle!
@@Aleeknives 👍👏🙂
I did this and it only took on one side.
More heat and longer soak time before setting the welds. Also the anvil cools one side really fast so quickly tap one side then reheat and quickly tap from the other side to ensure it welds correctly. Better luck next time!
Hey mate just a couple questions about your forge set-up. Is it a single burner setup? How long does it take you to get to welding temp? Awesome video.
My current forge is home-made and is a single burner. It is lined with kao wool and then hardened with a thick layer of satanite. The body is 3/8 an inch thick and I welded angle iron front and back to hold hard fire bricks for the doors.. I made the burner from hardware store parts. I used a turkey frier regulator and hose for the gas delivery system. It gets to welding temp in less than 5 minutes. All in all it has been a great forge but there is a ton of room for improvement! I have been collecting parts to build a much better version than you will soon see on my channel! I am going to do a build series on how to build it also! Thanks for watching
@@Aleeknives that sounds great. Your forge is roughly the same spec as mine although I have never tried forge welding. This weekend I hope to do my first san mai with some 1084 and wrought iron. I can't wait to follow your new build. I also want to do a brick build ribbon burner in the future.
My next forge will be a ribbon burner for sure and I will be coating the inside with ITC 100HT
@@Aleeknives i use that on my current forge and its great. Just try not to do what I do and poke a lot of holes in it. I should have done refractory lining first then used this over the top.
What anvil is that? Nice video
Austrian forged in 1903 church window pattern
Thank you! I appreciate you hanging out on the channel
We got the same haircut
Sorry. Had to lol now I'm going watch the video
You usually have a hat on i think
You're wrong. I had already subscribed
That's awesome!
Is that 1 of the Amazon propane forges???
No I built this one but there are many like it out there that would probably perform just the same!
@@Aleeknives idk. I have a very similar 1 I think I got it from ebay. There are a lot of forges similar to yours but if they're like the ebay 1 I have, they won't get the metal as hot
It is really t things that make the difference. The insulation and the burner. I used kao wool and then made it rigid with satanite and made my own burner with hardware store parts.
@@Aleeknives I think the burner was poorly constructed on my forge. It's obvious someone poorly did what you did and started selling it
I am glad the person I copied did a good job😂🤣 I will be making a new forge this year and will make a video about it!
Ow a Sandwich . LoL How about getting the core exposed at the edge . By the end picture you can see nearly no 15N20 . The reson for a sandwich is to clad the high carbon steel for suport close to the edge ......... Hobbyist !
Я понимаю английский, НО раз уж вы решили расширить число просмотров русскоговорящими зрителями и написали замануху на русском, то могли бы хотябы сделать русские субтитры.
subtitles are very hard to translate unless you want to spend a lot of money for a service. I don't intend on doing that anytime soon. Sorry
@@Aleeknives Тогда вы просто хотите и рыбку съесть и в воду не влезть. Но так не бывает.
Удачи.
Next time you add another layer of each or thicker pieces and this will come out perfect.