I love the robust design of experiments happening here. It's a shame that hitbox information for Tekken isn't as widely available, compared to something like Smash. Being able to see the hitbox interactions instead of guessing based on interactions would have made this analysis much easier. Props for putting in all that effort!
I stumbled upon this playlist of character hitboxes.... Ain't much, but like you said there isn't much info on Tekken hitboxes... Also looking up the word hitbox comes up with the damn controller ua-cam.com/play/PLPDk6gzWmX92V_8AT63dTI99Ui3yRv5M5.html&si=_yd1jaafdaJdagTr
You are doing an outstanding work with every video. Your channel has been a goldmine with a complete approach allowing to understand the game better and always thrive for more research and info. Thank you
This has to be one of the best videos I've ever watched. The time the effort that it went to it and the way it was presented 10 out of 10 my man great job
Excellent work dude. You reminded me some of amazing friends i had on Tekken Zaibatsu who used to dive deep in the Tekken mechanics and system and sharing that information with other players which really helped them a lot. Thank you so much.
bro thank you for this video! subbed! this is the proof we need so ppl understand that some character have better movement and this makes them better than other characters
if you ever start testing backdashes, there is something you MUST test. reina's f,f+2 -> sen 3. only 3 characters (if i remember correctly) can backdash out before the sen 3 comes out. which are king law and someone else.
Remember though this is only using the up, up or down, down sidestepping. Some characters have other ways of sidestepping. For example, Lili has feisty rabbit and up 2 (or up forward 2). If these moves can sidestep, these moves are even better than just sidestepping because you are counterattacking and sidestepping in just one move while the normal sidestepping would need a follow up attack if you are looking to attack. Alisa has flying sidesteps (she can fly out of the way with her wings). So characters might be able to pass more tests if they use another sidestep method. Anyway this is a lot of good work I love this! It encourages me more to play Lili and Alisa. Please keep updating this for the new DLC characters.
nice work man thank for your efforts now i know that is the king sidestep is not garbage(i just heard that somewhere and dont check) I've been wanting to introduce sidesteps for a long time and now i just MUST to spam sidestep in every moment that i can, just to feel how it works
Chainsaws aren’t that bad bruh. The high is plus, the mid is safe. The low can’t be low parried. If she blocks something or gets hit, the chainsaws leave.
Very cool video, and I don't think anyone can doubt the definitiveness of the sample size you've got there. It's for us players to do... But worth considering as you mentioned within the video that yoshimitsu has ways to "cheat" with spin... Just like King would with his ss throw cancel
I think this is the first time I've seen a full-blown scientific Tekken video. This is amazing. Hats off to you! Must have been hell to edit together too.
Yeah feels like King can't sidestep as much as he could in T7. I play King and Victor and from experience I would say Victor's side step is much better, so idk why King is above him
This was very helpful! Cuz I swear I try to side step with vic and get clipped so much lol. I like data videos with visuals helps to understand what's going on Great work keep it up
it's not one of the worst in the game, in the test results section he was at 45%, tied with a bunch of other 45's the 50% would have made him tie, and that's not very far off Honestly it seems like its barely below average
@@abirneji below average sidestep on a character that doesn’t even fully function as a character yet compared to everyone else in the roster. That’s an awful combination, and it’s no wonder kazuya players are getting destroyed online. He needs some serious hit box tweaking and an enlarged sidestep.
@@The_Buff_GuyThat’s an exaggeration. He has inconsistent combos in the game, yes. However contrary to many characters in this game, he has a clear identity. The best punishment on paper, great 50/50, busted oki at the wall and clear weaknesses in terms of bad poking and weak pressure in the open forms a very defined gameplan with Kazuya. Meanwhile almost any other character is a rushdown pressure monster. So saying that he doesn’t function as a character is not correct. And I agree with the other person: the difference between 45 and 50% is not significant.
@@StasionSpasski he absolutely doesn’t fully function as a character. I just made a video about this on my channel with multiple hit box examples from multiple scenarios from multiple players. Clear cut footage of his standing 3, jab, df1, twin pistons, and b2 moves all whiffing by being very slightly off axis. It’s not acceptable in a game full of killers. Kazuya doesn’t function. The fact that he has a below average sidestep makes him boarder line useless.
Kazuya mains can tell straight away that he has awful hitboxes crappy evasion and extended hurtboxes. Theres combos king can do that literally pick a grounded person off the ground, yet kazuya cant hook punch an airborne opponent right next to him if the axis is slightly off
Phenomenal video! I hope this gets way more attention - the data is amazing, and the implications are huge. One of the more worrying ones being - so, characters are just (almost) randomly better than others at sidestepping, and Bamco clearly didn't do any QA work to find this? Considering this, the initial launch state of the game, and the bugs that get introduced after new patches, I have a feeling the game is held together with faith and duct-tape.
They're all just collision detection regions, hitbox is just a short hand. On a game engine level, the only difference is what times they're active, but they're the exact same principle and when you program them, they're all hitboxes. The whole hurt/hit box distinction is completely arbitrary. People pretend it's intuitive and simple to understand, but it's not. I hit you with my fist and it hurt you. I hurt you with my fist and it hit you. The only way to be clear is to say "attack hitbox" and "character hitbox" it's not complicated at all and everyone knows what you're talking about because you said one extra word for context instead of using a synonym for a word pretending it's an antonym and then looking down on people who don't get it.
Great breakdown. Thanks for the hard work. This is added uniqueness for Tekken that I really love. They could've just made sidestep homogeneous, along with character's hitboxes, or just simple make sidestep function like high/low crush. The game is designed to have built-in exceptions to almost every rule. It adds a lot to a game when you can really get in the weeds and do homework to collect and parse data like this. Even if some of the statistics change in the future, just knowing conceptually how this is a thing is hugely beneficial because it will keep you from saying stuff like "everyone can step that left." When in reality only some can, while everyone can step right. This leads to some even more whacky (unintended?) consequences of side selection when you consider all of this.
The main issue I have with Tekken 8 is the lack of consistency. If you sidestep something correctly, it means you made the right decision as the player and the game should reward you. Getting clipped by something you don't have control (ex. Alisa's leg) feels so arbitrary, even if you made the right decision. Needless to say, outstanding work on your data gathering!
More reason to make sidestepping more consistent. Im a lili main on my channel but her being the best sidestepper to not being able to side step reinas kick and jack can is silly. I know the developers are fixing the sidestep stuff out hopefully in june but its just weird. Plus the skate motion you mention is worse when you do a walking sidestep and sometimes the camera flips and you do a input and it comes out completely different due to repositioning and things. How they got it right in tekken 7 and not tekken 8 is bizarre to me.
I recently hit Fujin with Yoshi and so decided to focus more on fundamentals instead of gimmicks. And as I tried to do so I started losing so much more it's crazy, I'm currently back on Mighty Ruler. This video taught me I should stop trying to side step so much and utilize his B3/4 spin instead. Thank you!
Keep in mind these are edge cases. You should definitely try to learn what situations are best for side stepping. The timing of your side step matters a lot as well. Some situations you should practice, like side stepping Ling's F2,1,2 in heat. Buffering side step out of strings you know can be side stepped instead of mashing up or down will help with consistency. Pressing a button too soon will also cut your distance short. B3/4 are great tools, but can be baited and launched or don't give you enough time to punish in some situations.
One thing I'm curious about but could be harder to test, is xiaoyu back turn side step. I believe the director himself said that the idea for being back turned is being closer to the opponent, therefore having a stronger side step.
4:48 for jack it may have to do with distance travel after block. His extended arms may happen to give the block animation farther away form body hitbox. Reina s kick doesnt reach in time regardless of startup but does check lilis hip-palm stance
4:55 Jack and the bears have weird lower body hurtbox (that's why many combos don't work properly against them). In here it seems Lili's lower body hurtbox got clipped while Jack didn't which is consistent to the character's Janky lower body hurtbox.
This was a great video, I loved the concept and didn't mind the A.I. voice. Hey let me know if you want my hype voice for a voiceover. I'll give you quality and a laugh or 2 😂
Hello ! Could you actualise this for 2 things : Manji step for Yoshi and Lidia (maybe Heihachi when he comes out) Also a link toward the testing google sheet or something like that so we can aliment this and share it with the whole community so even if you stop doing we can keep going on and make your work live on !
I love playing the game but i hate this aspect of the it where you have to know for each move if it sidestepable for each of the character TIMES TWO because two directions
I love the robust design of experiments happening here. It's a shame that hitbox information for Tekken isn't as widely available, compared to something like Smash. Being able to see the hitbox interactions instead of guessing based on interactions would have made this analysis much easier. Props for putting in all that effort!
Don't worry. Tekken will release the hit box dlc soon enough for $5
I stumbled upon this playlist of character hitboxes.... Ain't much, but like you said there isn't much info on Tekken hitboxes... Also looking up the word hitbox comes up with the damn controller
ua-cam.com/play/PLPDk6gzWmX92V_8AT63dTI99Ui3yRv5M5.html&si=_yd1jaafdaJdagTr
TekkenOverlay has a feature to show real time hitboxes and hurtboxes, but its only for tekken 7, the feature might come to tekken 8 in the future
You are doing an outstanding work with every video. Your channel has been a goldmine with a complete approach allowing to understand the game better and always thrive for more research and info. Thank you
Thanks so much! Means a lot 🥰🙏
Hats off to you for gathering that much data, sir.
5:43 Without context has me dead 😂
what an amazingly well put together video, i hope this makes the rounds BIGTIME, it's eye opening.
This is some quality study on tekken sidestep system that can actually improve our knowledge!!! Great work man!
This has to be one of the best videos I've ever watched. The time the effort that it went to it and the way it was presented 10 out of 10 my man great job
Great camera work displaying the intricacies of side steps! Super appreciate your effort in testing all of this
Let's go reina
Excellent work dude. You reminded me some of amazing friends i had on Tekken Zaibatsu who used to dive deep in the Tekken mechanics and system and sharing that information with other players which really helped them a lot. Thank you so much.
amazing video again this must have taken a lot of effort keep up the good work
Thank you for putting in the work!
Amazing work!
Thank you so much! Really appreciate it
Great video!! Would love to see the results with a bigger data pool!
bro thank you for this video! subbed! this is the proof we need so ppl understand that some character have better movement and this makes them better than other characters
Them: “How come you never learned how to sidestep things?”
Me: “I main Jack.”
Outstanding work and incredible content brother, keep it up!
This info is amazing. I wish there were more consistency for balance reasons. Subcribed
if you ever start testing backdashes, there is something you MUST test. reina's f,f+2 -> sen 3. only 3 characters (if i remember correctly) can backdash out before the sen 3 comes out. which are king law and someone else.
Eddy is a huge surprise!
Remember though this is only using the up, up or down, down sidestepping. Some characters have other ways of sidestepping. For example, Lili has feisty rabbit and up 2 (or up forward 2). If these moves can sidestep, these moves are even better than just sidestepping because you are counterattacking and sidestepping in just one move while the normal sidestepping would need a follow up attack if you are looking to attack. Alisa has flying sidesteps (she can fly out of the way with her wings). So characters might be able to pass more tests if they use another sidestep method. Anyway this is a lot of good work I love this! It encourages me more to play Lili and Alisa. Please keep updating this for the new DLC characters.
Gotta love Tekken Sidestep hitbox Jankiness. Still waiting on that new virtua fighter for a better sidestepping system.
nice work man
thank for your efforts
now i know that is the king sidestep is not garbage(i just heard that somewhere and dont check)
I've been wanting to introduce sidesteps for a long time
and now i just MUST to spam sidestep in every moment that i can, just to feel how it works
Leaving a comment for your UA-cam analytics
Me too😅
The most analytical tekken video to date and the time to come
WE WANT AN ANTI-ALISA VIDEO, pleaseeee I really need it! Hope you consider. CHAINSAWS ARE NEEDED TO BE NERFED
Chainsaws aren’t that bad bruh. The high is plus, the mid is safe. The low can’t be low parried. If she blocks something or gets hit, the chainsaws leave.
Stop crying for nerfs you scrubby red rank
Red rank problems
@@jovan7365 her movement plus the chainsaws is unfair
@@jovan7365 yah I've played her, but the Plus frames in destructive form is 🤢
Very cool video, and I don't think anyone can doubt the definitiveness of the sample size you've got there.
It's for us players to do... But worth considering as you mentioned within the video that yoshimitsu has ways to "cheat" with spin... Just like King would with his ss throw cancel
I think this is the first time I've seen a full-blown scientific Tekken video. This is amazing. Hats off to you! Must have been hell to edit together too.
I want you to pls remember that we highly appreciate these kinds of videos
Props on the dedication, amazing video
0:50 - Only Eddy and King seem to leave footprints in the sand
Thank you for the hard work and data, lots of respect !
wow didn't expect king to be that high
Couple that with his Jaguar sidestep
He's a genuinely busted character. I still kinda enjoy fighting against him though because it means I did something right.
Yeah feels like King can't sidestep as much as he could in T7. I play King and Victor and from experience I would say Victor's side step is much better, so idk why King is above him
This was very helpful! Cuz I swear I try to side step with vic and get clipped so much lol.
I like data videos with visuals helps to understand what's going on
Great work keep it up
No wonder I have never stepped a demon paw, I better start spinning instead
So kazuya has no left arm hit box consistency, AND one of the worst sidesteps in the game. Sick.
Amazing video, as always bro. So interesting!
it's not one of the worst in the game, in the test results section he was at 45%, tied with a bunch of other 45's the 50% would have made him tie, and that's not very far off
Honestly it seems like its barely below average
@@abirneji below average sidestep on a character that doesn’t even fully function as a character yet compared to everyone else in the roster. That’s an awful combination, and it’s no wonder kazuya players are getting destroyed online. He needs some serious hit box tweaking and an enlarged sidestep.
@@The_Buff_GuyThat’s an exaggeration. He has inconsistent combos in the game, yes. However contrary to many characters in this game, he has a clear identity. The best punishment on paper, great 50/50, busted oki at the wall and clear weaknesses in terms of bad poking and weak pressure in the open forms a very defined gameplan with Kazuya. Meanwhile almost any other character is a rushdown pressure monster. So saying that he doesn’t function as a character is not correct.
And I agree with the other person: the difference between 45 and 50% is not significant.
@@StasionSpasski he absolutely doesn’t fully function as a character. I just made a video about this on my channel with multiple hit box examples from multiple scenarios from multiple players. Clear cut footage of his standing 3, jab, df1, twin pistons, and b2 moves all whiffing by being very slightly off axis. It’s not acceptable in a game full of killers. Kazuya doesn’t function. The fact that he has a below average sidestep makes him boarder line useless.
Kazuya mains can tell straight away that he has awful hitboxes crappy evasion and extended hurtboxes. Theres combos king can do that literally pick a grounded person off the ground, yet kazuya cant hook punch an airborne opponent right next to him if the axis is slightly off
Its so stupid that kazuyas sidestep is below average when hes supposed to evade into electrics, harada for some reason just really hates t8 kazuya
Amazing video! Many thanks for this huge work 🥰🥰🥰
insanely high quality vid, subbed
Phenomenal video! I hope this gets way more attention - the data is amazing, and the implications are huge. One of the more worrying ones being - so, characters are just (almost) randomly better than others at sidestepping, and Bamco clearly didn't do any QA work to find this? Considering this, the initial launch state of the game, and the bugs that get introduced after new patches, I have a feeling the game is held together with faith and duct-tape.
Movement has always been different between characters in all Tekken games, it's intentional
Extremely cool analysis video, going way more in depth than anyone I've seen. Hats off to you 🎩
Kazuya’s shadow from the arial view looks like he brought the rod out
Of course Feng has the best male sidestep, why the fk wouldn't he, just give him a mid electric alreasy
That would be straight up evil lmao
My god you’re a hero for this. I’ve never subscribed so fast
Great works! Thanks for your time!
One day the community at large will remember the phrase hurtbox and not confuse it for a hitbox.
A hurtbox is a type of hitbox. You only need to specify when it gets ambiguous.
One day, but for me today is not that day. Hitbox for life
One day people will stop calling Kazuya Kazooyah
They're all just collision detection regions, hitbox is just a short hand. On a game engine level, the only difference is what times they're active, but they're the exact same principle and when you program them, they're all hitboxes.
The whole hurt/hit box distinction is completely arbitrary. People pretend it's intuitive and simple to understand, but it's not. I hit you with my fist and it hurt you. I hurt you with my fist and it hit you.
The only way to be clear is to say "attack hitbox" and "character hitbox" it's not complicated at all and everyone knows what you're talking about because you said one extra word for context instead of using a synonym for a word pretending it's an antonym and then looking down on people who don't get it.
Lmao right?
Great breakdown. Thanks for the hard work.
This is added uniqueness for Tekken that I really love. They could've just made sidestep homogeneous, along with character's hitboxes, or just simple make sidestep function like high/low crush.
The game is designed to have built-in exceptions to almost every rule. It adds a lot to a game when you can really get in the weeds and do homework to collect and parse data like this. Even if some of the statistics change in the future, just knowing conceptually how this is a thing is hugely beneficial because it will keep you from saying stuff like "everyone can step that left." When in reality only some can, while everyone can step right. This leads to some even more whacky (unintended?) consequences of side selection when you consider all of this.
Amazing work, hope we can get some hitboxes in the future.
I saw this camera angle first time
Thank you❤
The main issue I have with Tekken 8 is the lack of consistency.
If you sidestep something correctly, it means you made the right decision as the player and the game should reward you.
Getting clipped by something you don't have control (ex. Alisa's leg) feels so arbitrary, even if you made the right decision.
Needless to say, outstanding work on your data gathering!
The most impressive thing is the dramatic narration
Thank you so much for your work man.
bro i knew i wasnt tripping! i got a clip of my using steve's doge and side step, getting completely behind characters and still getting hit.
Very interesting. love breakdowns like this, glad I subbed
Nice work, holy u did an amazing job I can imagine how many times this takes
Cooking with facts. Easily the best T8 channel by this metric.
More reason to make sidestepping more consistent. Im a lili main on my channel but her being the best sidestepper to not being able to side step reinas kick and jack can is silly. I know the developers are fixing the sidestep stuff out hopefully in june but its just weird. Plus the skate motion you mention is worse when you do a walking sidestep and sometimes the camera flips and you do a input and it comes out completely different due to repositioning and things. How they got it right in tekken 7 and not tekken 8 is bizarre to me.
Great video, you can tell a decent amount of effort went into it. Must’ve took a while to get all of the data.
are a mad man for actually collecting the data
The amount of work this took is insane. Great work bro
You did amazing work. This game needs an update for these hitboxes & sidestepping I’ve seen so much jank in game 😪
hope this blows up. a lot of time put in this vid
Great test, thank you !
Nice video man. You put much effort into it. 🎉🎉🎉
W vid. I don't think the step is inconsistent but the hitbox is.
great idea! - thanks for putting this together
😮 nice data comparison!
well put, I love the effort. Keep it up.
Thanks for all the hard works u doing man i love ur works
This voice is so serious lol but it is for TEKKEN SCIENCE! Great work
I recently hit Fujin with Yoshi and so decided to focus more on fundamentals instead of gimmicks. And as I tried to do so I started losing so much more it's crazy, I'm currently back on Mighty Ruler. This video taught me I should stop trying to side step so much and utilize his B3/4 spin instead. Thank you!
Keep in mind these are edge cases. You should definitely try to learn what situations are best for side stepping. The timing of your side step matters a lot as well. Some situations you should practice, like side stepping Ling's F2,1,2 in heat. Buffering side step out of strings you know can be side stepped instead of mashing up or down will help with consistency. Pressing a button too soon will also cut your distance short.
B3/4 are great tools, but can be baited and launched or don't give you enough time to punish in some situations.
Best experimental video ever i watch.
Im glad you took the time to study the abberant data. If it was me i wouldve chalked it up to hitbox jank and cried harada pls.
The best informative tekken content by far
amazing job... Tekken is lucky to have a nerd like you making this kind of content.
One thing I'm curious about but could be harder to test, is xiaoyu back turn side step. I believe the director himself said that the idea for being back turned is being closer to the opponent, therefore having a stronger side step.
4:48 for jack it may have to do with distance travel after block. His extended arms may happen to give the block animation farther away form body hitbox. Reina s kick doesnt reach in time regardless of startup but does check lilis hip-palm stance
this is invaluable info. thanks a lot, man
Great job... I wonder how much does it take you to make this amazing video
Thanks! Around 3 days straight 🥲
Good stuff man, this is quality info
Bamco: "Nice work! We're gonna have this data as our property that we never did before!"
This reminds me how good Soulcalibur's movement is.
4:55 Jack and the bears have weird lower body hurtbox (that's why many combos don't work properly against them). In here it seems Lili's lower body hurtbox got clipped while Jack didn't which is consistent to the character's Janky lower body hurtbox.
I really like how it looks like a scientific research paper/article. I see the same rigor and aknlowdgment of the limits of your presentation
Thank you mishima guy for the great video yet again! 🤩 this video allowed me to sidestep my dads belt!
That's a huge work
Great vid!
Just imagine if Kazooyer Masheemer could control the direction of his mist step (➡️, n)
The sharp angle of mist step is insane
>Skips to the end
>My main is high average
>realize I am just bad and rewind the vid
This was a great video, I loved the concept and didn't mind the A.I. voice.
Hey let me know if you want my hype voice for a voiceover. I'll give you quality and a laugh or 2 😂
Hahah appreciate the offer, I’ll need to start using my own voice soon I think the AI voice is getting a little old 🥲
@@MishimaComplex I didn't know that was an ai voice. ai is so crazy nowadays
Hello ! Could you actualise this for 2 things :
Manji step for Yoshi and Lidia (maybe Heihachi when he comes out)
Also a link toward the testing google sheet or something like that so we can aliment this and share it with the whole community so even if you stop doing we can keep going on and make your work live on !
Raven having such a bad normal sidestep is not only baffling for an evasive ninja, his sidestep gets worse in backturn.
Holy.. you have done it! Thank you!
I hope they give defensive characters like lee and maybe kazuya a better sidestep in the June patch!
scientific research for tekken? I'm all for it
holy crap, the level of detail here is insane
Great work! Happy to know that Lars has average sidestep. As I know, in previous games, he had bad movement
Tekken University. Enrollment starts Sunmer Semester. Full-time and part-time slots are available.
Oh thank you. I always days side steps were very inconsistent in this game
I love playing the game but i hate this aspect of the it where you have to know for each move if it sidestepable for each of the character TIMES TWO because two directions
Just try
This channel is seriously underrated
Your videos are out of this world.
Speedy leg.