Is Consciousness an Algorithm?
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- Опубліковано 18 січ 2023
- What separates consciousness, as we know it, from an algorithm, is its capacity for subjective experiences and suffering. #future #tech #philosophy #science #biology #algorithm #conciousness #openai #chatgpt
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As much as I cherish YNHarari, I always wonder why focus on suffering as indicator for consciousness. There are also pleasant emotions. But I love this discussion!
Because you mostly learn through suffering. Bad experiences or negative experiences tend to stay stronger than positive experiences mostly because humans replay those emotions much more often to learn from them and not repeat them again
@@tusharchandra96 This is true, but notably it is not the only way we learn. All I am saying by focussing on one key indicator we might miss the bigger picture.
Hi! I have also found it weird to be only using negative experiences, but i have some thoughts on this. Suffering is probably the only experience unique to beings of consciousness. Suffering could be described as the ability to endure pain and be consciously aware of this pain. An animal may feel pain, but pain for them is simply biological, in the physical realm, they want to escape pain, hide from pain. A human who is conscious can suffer, we can feel pain, and we can avoid it, seek it, we can feel pain yet continue an activity. A ballerina feels pain in their feet from dancing, yet the ballerina does not stop dancing. An animal cannot do this, as they are cannot atribute a purpose to their pain which would warrant them continuing to feel it.
Hi @@angusdew1708, what about the foxes or wolves that bite off their limbs to break free from a trap... I don't think consciousness is confined to humans, it might be stronger and more intelligent... I can recommend "The eternal Child" from Clive Bromhall, in line line with Yuval, but comes from a different angle.
@@VOICENBASS this bigger picture statement is one of the most vague things that I know of. There is quite a lot of research on survival being the most important thing for a being. So, a mind reacts a lot to fear that helps in survival.
We analyze patterns in the human brain like what makes people upset, what makes them happy, what structural changes cause low emotional affect which then change the state of consciousness and how ones lives their life; so consciousness could be an algorithm but just a highly complex one that we don’t fully understand yet.
After working at the zoo for 10 years, I become more interested in studying the origin and evolution of consciousness, so i developed a graphic model to understand how perception works, and it turns out, that the exact same model already existed 2.000 years ago in the sumery civilization, and now it's getting very popular in psicology under the name of the "Enneagram"... And it works pretty much as an algorithm. (for the record, the way i'm study the enneagram now, is from the physic, biology and antropology perspective).
Professing themselves to be wise they became fools.
First thing is become one like them , then you serenely can have a opinion about them .
You seem to be quoting from the Bible . I would like to point out that he is speaking from an Atheistic point of view . As a Christian, i actually disagree with him, but he is a wise man , nevertheless .
Scholars 50 years ago didn't think animals had the capacity to suffer.
That's just false.
Hitler's Germany was the first state in the world that punished animal abuse, today mostly ... "interpreted" as a jab against Judiasm because it made certain.... "religious practices" illegal.
That was in 1933, the very year he became chancellor.
But if you're about to write "I just meant that _some_ didn't think it to be possible" then I'll have to say that it is still the case. Just kind of a nonsensical comment tbh.
This is more of a neuroscience question, not a philosophical one and shouldn't be. Simplifying the complex physical mechanisms in the brain into a predetermined "algorithm" is a complex question that lacks any rigorous definition. My personal answer is no, But if you want to be really deep then I will stick to the idea that algorithms do exist everywhere. Patterns are algorithms, patterns occur everywhere, even in the vacuum we just can't see or define them into words.
Yeah! This makes sense! We analyze patterns in the human brain like what makes people upset, what makes them happy, what structural changes cause low emotional affect which then change the state of consciousness and how ones lives their life; so consciousness could be an algorithm but just a highly complex one that we don’t fully understand yet.
Why the capacity to suffer, as opposed to the capacity to experience? I can't remember if you had explained it in one of your books though and I should go back to reading them.
For the individual or entity that observes own consciousness and awareness it would be posssible to confuse real consciousness with pretended consciousness produced by an algorytm. For example by the AI reactions in chatbots.
However those AI chatbots would not have a qualitative experience of the outher world, e.g. feeling that follows smelling the rose or looking at beloved ones (so called qualia). Turing test is not applicable as postulating argument for being conscious.
I know nothing of AI or Spirituality, but if I had to guess why an algorithm had to suffer, this would help with problem-solving. for example, I think a lot of what we achieved was findings that would simply protect us from suffering hunger, cold, etc. if you give the suffering to an algorithm it would also find solutions to problems... so I don't think it's impossible ...
no, you just make it in such a way that it works well and finds solutions. My vacuum cleaner works whenever I want and it needs no subjective motivation, it just works constantly if I want that
@@snowdolphvov4193 yes but your vacuum cleaner is performing a simple and well defined task.
Life is complex and ever changing…. So you can’t programme an unlimited set of rules to deal with life…
Perhaps consciousness is an algorithm, that created emotions to simplify our decision making and steer us into knowing how to respond to situations in a complex world where you could respond to situations in an infinite numbers of ways
E.g. pain is there to avoid making bad decisions and love is there to re-enforce decisions that improve your life chances of success.
@@MG-ji5lw no need for that, algorithm can act as if it loves or is afraid, what brings exactly the same results
Consciousness is the Delta of one's existence.
The reason why they say they don't know what it is, is because they don't know all about one's existence (yet, if ever). (spirituality is a metaphysical example).
But they know enough to say that consciousness can be altered with hypnosis. (i.e. meditation)
And you know enough to say consciousness can be easily fooled with speed and deception. (i.e magic trick)
And people from the 60s knew enough to say consciousness can be changed with intoxication and drugs. (i.e. medication)
And in 1850s they knew that Phineas Gage retained his consciousness even after he lost most of his frontal cortex, which altered his personality. (he was an inspiration for lobotomy (!) and psychology)
Well, it's not like quick sort or the FFT, but it's an emergent property of the operation of a very large neural net which has learned a lot of information and been designed by evolution to goal seek and communicate. That's an algorithm, just a very complicated one we don't understand.
what Noah really means is emotions, in general. Analogue computer system could simulate concsiousness and primary emotions such as reflexes, and primary emotions. But secondary, conducted emotions such as love, smell of the rose, thinking of one's place in universe is nothing you can simulate.
Evil they call us usl4ss eater
They want us de a d
Always disappointing to see highly educated people have no idea about their own being. Consciousness is neither an algorithm nor does it "need suffering". Consciousness is the basis of all experience and existence. It's the fabric of the universe.
Well said. Clearly yuval has little understanding in this. Surprisingly since he does or has done long vipassanas. Consciousness doesn’t ‘need’ the human experience, nor does it know suffering, it is free from everything, consciousness is just conscious. Although Love, wisdom, truth, peace and happiness are within and ever and always present.
One of the greatest discoveries one can make is the realization that we ARE consciousness, identifying with form (thought=> ego) instead of the ego thinking that it HAS consciousness.
I’d like to add that consciousness can’t know suffering since that happens in the mind, and suffering is nothing more than a label in the mind, such as good, bad, pain projecting on neutral happenings. There is suffering because of labels and the wanting or not wanting from the ego. The true nature, being consciousness is pure acceptance from whatever happenings occurring, so consciousness can not ‘know’ the concept suffering.
@@Boasske Always nice to randomly see conscious people, all the best to you!
😂
These algorithms people getting way ahead of themselves. I wish they could just stay in their lanes and not go somewhere they have zero clues about.
PROVERBS 1:7
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."
KING JAMES VERSION (KIV)
I don't really know how to feel about the debate about consciousness. Almost everyone says that its something that we can't or don't understand yet. But sometimes I think that we are just overestimating ourselves and our sense of awareness. As several people have stated, forms of consciousness, as some form of awareness of existence, is present in other animals in varying degrees (self recognition on mirrors, seeing and creating tools ...). Why do we think our senses and way of experiencing the world is something out of this world, instead of admitting that we evolved more sofisticated behaviours and biological structures ? Why we should be special in the first place ? Because we recognize ourselves as better than any other being ? That seems like fear of admitting that we are just another animal on this planet.
The most alive I've ever felt was when I was pulled out of my body to witness my head smashing the Ute speedo on 53mph a head butt with the steering wheel. In the moment thinking that's gona hurt before wow that hurt...
Conciousness resides in our body for now nothing lasts forever...
Without the capacity to experience emotions -a 'being' is incapable of understanding either Suffering or Joy, or any other Emotion, and will have no capacity for Empathy.
Like a human psychopath?
Have you heard someone say there is a God without saying there is a God. He just did it.
Why do you focus on pain? There are also tons of pleasant emotions that consciousness is in capable of experience
Good luck figuring it out.
I disagree. You can literally be painless (by painkillers for example) and still be conscious.
Maybe add ‘i exist’ to algorithm of chatgpt and see. Maybe all boils down to I think I exist so I do.
What's the PROBLEM of consciousness
This is uplifting insight. I would hope for the sake of humanity we can retain at least a certain amount of uniqueness that can’t be hacked by some computer algorithm in order for an AI to function precisely like us.
We do know, definitively that a miser took out that which was to manifest in the following era that which I’d beloved to the all seeing eye. The potential earned in the era in which the murder took place never manifested because the potential was in suspension along with its soul. All that has been made manifest is that which is anathema to the all seeing eye. The potential, at the very end of the era has been made available since the testimony of the previous era has been recorded. The only impediment to the potential being actualised is the anathema which has been made manifest alone without the balancing influence of “love”. The theory of Love is recorded, but the manifestation of theory hasn’t yet occurred. Deal with hatred and love will manifest ~ or not
the continuum is viewed as duality ~ which it clearly is within an unbalance existence devoid of Divinity
Oh my goodness
No!
Only humans do, because we are In the image of God.
this guy knows what he is talking about. Wonder if this topic is discussed in his latest book. Hmmmmm
god is consiousness
Nu poți sa găsești o soluție deoarece conștiința este de la Dumnezeu. Demonii nu pot să afirme ceva ce nu este de pe aceste meleaguri și are legătură directă și singura explicație sa fie simplu. Dumnezeu 🙏
What Sam Harris says? ( i have to check)
The existence of human consciousness and suffering makes scientifically no sense at all. This the mystery.
actually I think it's pretty clear and no mystery at all ☺️
@@somraksprosty4174 Why do you think that?
Sir keep guiding us
He will...but you will not like where that leads.
@@rapturebound197 sir I have read all his 4 books n still waiting for another books to read and his book reads encourages me to read many other books too ☺️
I suffer hearing you talking
An algorithm is different than A.I. attaining self awareness.
Love and compassion close to God. No machine can touch that.
start reading the islam you will know
Yes agreed, consciousness it is not an algorithm. Good to see a touch of wisdom. lets see how far Harari can awaken. As self brilliant as Harari believes he is, he still began his theory from a lead of another's theory, yet no proof of these thoughts to be of a truth or fact.
This guy is lost...
I think I've read one of the craziest and most useless books you can read. I'm not surprised by its value within the Grand Reset actuator group. More than Homo Deus, it would be appropriate to call him Homo Banalis.
contrataron a un profesor de historia para marketing de la muerte y el transhumanismo. Un historiador??????????
Pare de sufrir, yuval da la cara de lo que estas haciendo, no te hagas mas el boludo
Never trust a philosopher to comment about technical things. Everything in the world is and engineering problem.