I owned a Schoeps CMC1/MK4 and i must say that i'm impress by the Line Audio CM4 that have a flatter and linear response to my ears than the Schoeps that is a little bit higher on the mid-highs and highs... But in such sound's similarity, that's a question of personal tastes and recording situations, but of course the price for the CM4 is unbeatable! I will probably try it! Thanks for the review!
Hi JP - I'm guessing you don't have the Schoeps any more? Well I borrowed the review one, I would love to have one in the cupboard but Santa failed again this year! The CM4 is no doubt a labour of love and a tour de force. I haven't found anyone with a serious criticism and at the price it's a bargain. Thanks for the comment, now what is the French for bargain? Ta like, ppm6.
I'm always impressed, how damn good these Line Audio Mics work - I own the "old" CM3 - and that's a fantastic bang for the bug. The CM4 should be more or less the same with minimal differences to the CM3. Well done, Line Audio
Well done indeed and well said Peter. I don't think there's much difference between the CM3 and the CM4. I have bugged Roger about producing a hypercardioid but he says he's too busy making CM4's. A testimony to their success and indeed their quality. Ta like, ppm6.
In those recordings the CM4 definately sound more natural to my ears, the Schoeps have some kind of hyped midrange. But that those two mics can sound so close at all with such a huge price gap and both made in Europe (Roger make the cm4 himself in Sweden and do no marketing at all plus direct sale) is kind of amazing.
Yes, Roger does a remarkable job. He doesn't need to do marketing because first the product speaks for itself and second people can hear in the YT videos what it can do. Ta like, ppm6.
Hi Zaim - the Schoeps are incredible mics - many, many recordists use them on top location jobs for a reason! Not to mention their use in classical music studios around the world. The only problem is price - well for me at least. But then you have the CM4 option - and they are so cheap as to be practically stealing! Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk I totally agree. I probably won't ever buy a Schoeps mic because of the price, but I do think a CM4 is in my future. My three favorite small diaphragm condensers in order are the Schoeps CMC6 with the Mk22 capsule, then the DPA 4011a, and then the Line Audio CM4. I got obsessed and have discovered and listened to a lot of high-quality recordings to compare since I discovered the CM4 on your Channel, and the fact that I like it more than ANY of the small diaphragm Sennheiser, Shure, and Neumann microphones says a lot. I am blown away by how they accomplished this for so cheap a price. It really sounds somewhere between a Sennheiser MKH 50 and the Schoeps MK22. And both of those mics are many times the price of it. It's shocking.
If I want to document everyday, travel, UA-cam contents with behind and distance talk, want to move into game and music making too, I will get the Panasonic HC-X1500 camcorder 25-600mm F1.8-4 for video and Sony A7RV with 16-35mm F4 PZ mainly for photo, and audio gears I will get Sennheiser MKE 440, MKE 600, Line Audio CM4 and Deity HD-TX, are these good setup? I think better get either an actual pocketable RX100 VII camera or proper size A7RV camera since it provide better qualities and usabilities like unique 4 ways screen and also cameras in between of these sizes still need to carry in bag but I not sure should I reduce the projects I want to photograph like macro since we can just google them and let these specialists achieve them and I can just get an always with me RX100 VII? I hope there is a left handed camera so I can film on one hand and photograph on another when I want to, but I come up with the idea to film with DJI P3 when using A7RV and photograph with iPhone 15 when film with HC-X1500, good or there is alternative? I will use the MKE 440 stereo mic for video, MKE 600 shotgun mic to record elements for developments and CM4 pencil condenser for vocal and instruments and HD-TX as recorder but I not sure how to record my behind the camera commentary at same time, if I can just get one between MKE 600 and CM4 by extract mono track from one of the MKE 440 stereo mics if I don't have fully sound treated room and also if the recorder is right for me?
They are certainly different in the mids. the Schoeps has an excellent clarity in the low mids, no muddiness at all compared to the Line Audio. Just my opinion. Thanks for your excellent videos!!!
Hi Doug - glad that worked out so well. A wee ripper indeed. I don't know what Roger's secret is except painstaking work I suppose. I only wish he would apply it to a hypercardioid. Just working on the CM4 v Schoeps close in video. Happy recording. Ta like ppm6.
The room resonance is very distracting in this test and masking a lot of the microphones characteristics. From my own comparison test with the CM4 and Schoeps ccm41(supercardioid), at 1m distance the Schoeps has more body/ lower mids while the CM4 has a slightly more scooped sound compared to the Schoeps.The CM4 is extremely sensitive to contact noise and plosives/wind but a good shockmount and wind protection will take care of that. The CM4 waveforms look more lopsided. The CM4 is not perfect, but I am still very impressed!
Hi Jimi - thanks for the comment. There's not enough hurdy gurdy on UA-cam, that's what I say. What's in your hurdy recording bag? Nagra VI plus a Sound Devices? Or is that a Zaxcom. I'm squinting here. Of course the CM4 is flat to 100Hz and the Schoeps rolls off gently below 150 - not that graphs are everything. A hurdy gurdy cover of 'It's a long way to the top if you want to Rock and Roll' = would be a hit I'm sure. I wonder if you know my pal Lionel P - he's an ancienne Belgique sound wrangler? Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Hi! In my hurdy gurdy (and also the regular) recording bag is a Cooper cs104 mixer (beaten but still running) and an SD744t. Bit of a classic kit, so to say. The Cooper preamps are fine! I agree with what you say about graphs, they're an indication but does not define the real life character of the mic. I will be getting a second CM4 for stereo duties because they cost pennies and they are decent mics. AB is in Bruxelles, Belgium and I am from NL so I wouldn't know. It's a great venue though!
Respect to a CS104! Hollywood preamps - I have a very battered example here - must do a video some time. One of the meters is lazy and it's seen a lot of action but I love it. I did on one occasion fill it up with Sanyo Eneloop batteries. Bad move as they are slightly fatter I think than non rechargeables and got stuck in the battery tubes. I wish I had the direct out mod. Lovely machine. I do miss my 744t great recorder which I partnered with a 442, used to run hot as I remember but brilliant bit of kit. AB - I recorded The Darkness there many years ago - great night. I'm jealous of your Schoeps rig - have you got a figure of 8? I'm thinking that is M&S on the street. And I have to say I'm now watching Hurdy Gurdy videos - well I'm taking a short break now for Love is Only A Feeling. Ta like, ppm6.
If I’m interpreting the meters in the background correctly, it appears you were compressing and gating the signals. Is this correct? Suspect this would significantly color the comparison of any two mics.
MK4 is a true cardioid whereas CM4 is more of a wide cardioid. Maybe the comparison should be done between MK22 and CM4. What do you think? (CM3 subcardioid would match MK21.)
Hi Jussunen, I think you are right the CM4 is probably closer to the MK22. I have to borrow the Schoeps from Martin at soundkit.co.uk and so I can't always try all the options. Unless Santa brings me Schoeps for Christmas. That would be nice! Check out the sE8 might be closer to the MK4? ua-cam.com/video/T5f2JFjSILE/v-deo.html Thanks for the comment. Ta like, ppm6.
A very interesting comparison. At the end of the day, the question is - how valuable is the audio you are capturing? It's the same for every endeavour, e.g photography, information technology, or buying a home. It's all about value. I do not think this is just about frequency response, but what I would call resolution. How responsive is one capsule against another. I found the Schoeps more intelligible, and easier to discern what was being said. If I was running a show which had a lot of money invested in it, or recording voice over for a Hollywood blockbuster, I'd not bother with trying to save money, just go with the Schoeps, and forget about choosing. I feel there is this huge middle ground of wanna be products, that have a captive market - we all want something for nothing, but in truth, that is usually not the case, unless you do your research properly, and have a lucky find. But that research in itself, costs time and money and has risks - so the true cost of buying cheap has all kinds of consequences, including durability. I bought one of the original Rode NT1's and have rarely used it, but recently when I needed it the most, to do a comparison with some other cheap Chinese microphones that had been bought by a colleague of mine, for the church, my Rode NT1 was no longer working reliably. I think I bought this in 2002 or 2003, so sure its 20 years old, but you can understand what I mean. Microphones should be able to outlive us, cos they are tools that are important, at the time we need them. This I think is the argument against the "pretenders". The quality of design and manufacture of the higher end microphones, only becomes apparent, when you need them to not fail, at that very important event. Thankfully my NT1 failed when no one was there, sparing me the embarrassment, of a lifetime.! So sound quality, which thankfully can be somewhat discerned, in spite of UA-cam's audio compression, is only one criteria. Unfotunately most youtube reviewers never discuss this aspect.
Thanks Okay for the taking the time to pack in a lot of wisdom. No doubt if you have the budget a Schoeps is a good buy. It will last a lifetime, will retain value and parts and service will be available. Having said that Roger at Line Audio has been in business a long time now and what he offers is a fine product at an affordable price. As you say the question of value then is a personal one. Interesting experience with the Rode. I'm interested to know what you would recommend from the 'middle ground' section of the market? Thanks for dropping by. Ta like, ppm6.
Hi Andre - Thanks for subscribing! Lucky you to be putting Schoeps out on gigs, but I hope you really enjoy the CM4's, they are the biggest bargain in microphones and Roger does a great job. Hope you have a lot of fun with them! Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Cheers! I've already used the CM4s on a gig and I must say they do deliver! Such a great little microphone. I've used them on Oboes, and all the frequencies I needed where there. Fantastic. Thanks for your review!
hey man great video, i was wondering do u think se se7 is a good choice, in my country i cant buy ur recommendation (cm4) and i wanted to hear if u think se7 could be as good as cm4. thank u
Hi Arash, good question! I haven't tried the sE7 but I have tried the sE8 - have a listen here ua-cam.com/video/T5f2JFjSILE/v-deo.html In the UK the sE8 is cheaper than the the CM4... but some people have complained that the sE8 has higher self noise than the figures quoted in the specification. I am investigating this with sE and so far I would agree that the sE8 is a noisier than the 13dBA figure given in the spec. But life is complicated! Can your budget stretch to the sE8. I also have some Lewitt mic videos - the Lewit mics (040) are much cheaper than the CM4 or the sE8. In the mean time I'll look out for an sE7. Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk oh SE seems cheesy ...apparently 040 is rare too. and mostly its sold as a two piece . hard to find but i can find it ... but do u think its good as cm4? ( i checked 040 .the self noise is 20dba thats a little too much ). i really loved mc4 a true flat frequency and detailed, small and no other unnecessary options. its such a beautiful mic its like god created mic...
Hi Arash - the Lewitt 140 has a flat setting that might be of interest but it is more expensive than the CM4, have a listen. ua-cam.com/video/sc2dmO0d6JM/v-deo.html But the CM4 is a stunning mic - Roger does supply direct - I'm not sure how shipping might work to where you live but why not try him direct? www.lineaudio.se/contact.html All the best with your search! Ta like, ppm6.
Thanks to Martyn at Soundkit for the loan of the CMC1 and MK4, he's a diamond geezer - I don't do affiliate links. Schoeps CMC1 - www.soundkit.co.uk/product/9004570/schoeps-cmc-1-miniature-mic-preamp
I am indeed in Old South Wales , the original and still the best I always think. I could do with one of those Canon FL 55 1.2s, lovely lovely shots. Mind you on my ancient GH 2 it would be a 110! Martyn is a good guy and very generously lends me things I would never otherwise be able to test. One day I will review the LSP4 mixer he made back in his Filmtech days. Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Cardiff based myself, small world! I remember thinking Martyn would make a good documentary subject when I met him. Very interesting back-story on him. The 55mm FL is nice but baaaaarely sharp enough for FF let alone crop sensors 😅
Hi John, the Schoeps is standard issue for Hollywood film sound recording and also for the orchestral studio work. In a way we should say 'of course it is better than the CM4' but it just shows what a bargain the Line Audio mic is! Thanks for watching. Ta like, ppm6.
If I want to document everyday, travel, UA-cam contents with behind and distance talk, want to move into game and music making too, I will get the Panasonic HC-X1500 camcorder 25-600mm F1.8-4 for video and Sony A7RV with 16-35mm F4 PZ mainly for photo, and audio gears I will get Sennheiser MKE 440, MKE 600, Line Audio CM4 and Deity HD-TX, are these good setup? I think better get either an actual pocketable RX100 VII camera or proper size A7RV camera since it provide better qualities and usabilities like unique 4 ways screen and also cameras in between of these sizes still need to carry in bag but I not sure should I reduce the projects I want to photograph like macro since we can just google them and let these specialists achieve them and I can just get an always with me RX100 VII? I hope there is a left handed camera so I can film on one hand and photograph on another when I want to, but I come up with the idea to film with DJI P3 when using A7RV and photograph with iPhone 15 when film with HC-X1500, good or there is alternative? I will use the MKE 440 stereo mic for video, MKE 600 shotgun mic to record elements for developments and CM4 pencil condenser for vocal and instruments and HD-TX as recorder but I not sure how to record my behind the camera commentary at same time, if I can just get one between MKE 600 and CM4 by extract mono track from one of the MKE 440 stereo mics if I don't have fully sound treated room and also if the recorder is right for me?
I' ve been waiting years before starting to complaint about these mic-tests performed in the free-field, and this is my first observation: one of the big differences between a high-end mic and a mid-low-end one lies in the frequency response in the diffuse-field. Please, settle the mics 4-6-10 meters away from a sound-source, and then a Schoeps (or DPA, or Sennheiser, Sanken, SDC Neumann) stands up clearly. Anyhow, these Line Audios are little gems, indeed. My Best Regards
Hi Sandro, the great Geoff Atkins who used to mix the BBC orchestra here in Wales used to say, 'all mics sound pretty good close up, you need to hear them at a distance to really tell which the good ones are.' Ta like ppm6
Great comparison, interesting indeed. To my own ears, they're not even remotely close. The Schoeps was better on every metric - the lows were tighter, the mids were more detailed and the highs were more realistic and less harsh. Having said that, it is reflected in the price. If that's a consideration for you, the Line Audio sounds like a competitive microphone that could make fantastic recordings.
Thanks Lawrence - I think the world is a better place because Schoeps and Line Audio both make microphones. I'm a little sad that I can't afford a Schoeps and I'm a bit sad that Line Audio are so busy making and selling CM4s that Roger has no time to make his mic amps. Ta like, ppm6.
If I want to document everyday, travel, UA-cam contents with behind and distance talk, want to move into game and music making too, I will get the Panasonic HC-X1500 camcorder 25-600mm F1.8-4 for video and Sony A7RV with 16-35mm F4 PZ mainly for photo, and audio gears I will get Sennheiser MKE 440, MKE 600, Line Audio CM4 and Deity HD-TX, are these good setup? I think better get either an actual pocketable RX100 VII camera or proper size A7RV camera since it provide better qualities and usabilities like unique 4 ways screen and also cameras in between of these sizes still need to carry in bag but I not sure should I reduce the projects I want to photograph like macro since we can just google them and let these specialists achieve them and I can just get an always with me RX100 VII? I hope there is a left handed camera so I can film on one hand and photograph on another when I want to, but I come up with the idea to film with DJI P3 when using A7RV and photograph with iPhone 15 when film with HC-X1500, good or there is alternative? I will use the MKE 440 stereo mic for video, MKE 600 shotgun mic to record elements for developments and CM4 pencil condenser for vocal and instruments and HD-TX as recorder but I not sure how to record my behind the camera commentary at same time, if I can just get one between MKE 600 and CM4 by extract mono track from one of the MKE 440 stereo mics if I don't have fully sound treated room and also if the recorder is right for me?
I want to record bird sounds in my backyard during the morning chorus. Do you think a pair of Line Audio CM4s would be a great solution ? ( I dont want to record the sound of a specific bird rather all the birds during the morning chorus. )
Hi newlifeeveryday - now that is a good question! Can I start by asking what recording solution you plan to use? The two main problems with mics outside are wind noise and damp. So I would recommend getting proper windshields to protect your mics. The supplied foam is fine for indoors but on a windy day it's not going to be enough outside. Rycote make a great range of windshields but you'll find you might be spending quite a bit of cash, pro windshields aren't cheap and you'll need two of them. You will also need a stand or clamp of some sort and a stereo bar. Manfrotto make a great magic arm and K&M top stereo bars. Some people prefer an MS format solution outside but that requires a figure of 8 mic and they are hard to find and expensive. Omni mics are less prone to wind noise but generally not as useful as a cardioid. Line Audio make an Omni - for the same price as the CM4, it's a little bit noisier. lineaudio.se/Omni1.html But I would ask - have you other plans for your mics other than outdoors? Sorry for such a long answer. Ta like, ppm6.
That is a very good question, and a little bit of a sore point. How close should we get in review. And I think the answer is a variety of distances is probably ideal. So If I get the chance (soundkit.co.uk have already let me have the mic for a couple of weeks, ta Martyn!) I'll do a Paradise Lost video at different distances. Two things I know, the Schoeps is a fantastic mic and the Line Audio is an unbelievable bargain. Ta like, ppm6.
CM4? I hear that it’s a bit more directional than my CM3s are; the CM3 is more “hypo cardioid” than cardioid. (“Hypo” not to be confused with “hyper”, mind!) “Broad cardioid” or “wide cardioid” could be another way to describe the CM3, which is to say, it’s not quite deaf to the rear. But I don’t think more directionality is what I want. I mostly record classical music, and a pair of CM3s combined with a pair of OM1s is what I use. (Line Audio OM1, mind - I know there’s a different brand that makes an OM1 which is quite different).
Hi Lau, to be honest I'm not sure what the differences are between the CM3 and the CM4. I will ask Roger. But I have heard that the CM4 is a bit tighter but it is not a 'tight' cardioid. I wish Roger would make a figure of 8 and a hyper-cardioid, but he says he is far too busy making CM4s. He is a victim of his own success. Sounds to me like you have the microphones covered, unless you need some 'spot' mics. How about a Grace space bar? Wonderful bit of kit! What's the rest of your gear? Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Oh, I have way too much gear! Nothing terribly expensive, though - Neumann is a bit too much for my purse, let alone Schoeps. I hadn’t heard of these Grace spacebars (sounds like some chain of Star Trek saloons) It looks like a very nice (and pricy?) system, but I have a few Manfrotto and K&M bars that serve similar purposes.
Thanks Lau - I bought the Spacebar when Grace changed distributors here in the UK. It still wasn't cheap! Mind you K&M and Monfrotto both make excellent mic supports. I have a K&M quad bar and somewhere a big Monfrotto lighting bar that also doubles as a long mic bar. Sadly I don't ever see a spacebar on Ebay. Ta like, ppm6.
I wish YT would offer an option where you could trade audio against video bandwidth. So we could have uncompressed audio and lower bit rate video. Having said that the CM4 is very good! Ta like, ppm6.
I think that is pretty fair - Schoeps make some of the world's best mics but at a price. Line Audio make excellent value for money mics and I can afford one! Thanks for the comment. Ta like ppm6.
Hi Dan, you know how to hurt a Schoeps fan! But you are right in the sense that you don't need a fifteen hundred dollar mic to make a good recording and just because it says Schoeps on your mics doesn't mean you will make a good recording. But speaking as a wanna be Schoeps fan I wish I could afford one, and if they had a sale I would buy two! Thanks for the feedback, Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Probably comes down to $20 of caps/resistors. Wonder if the Line Audio could be easily modded. Would love to see inside the mics, hard to find teardowns for DIYers :)
I find it a bit sad that YT is all about the video and doesn't seam so bothered about sound I would happily upload a slide show and uncompressed audio if that were an option. What did you replace the Martin with? Ta like, ppm6.
Thanks Wladimir - distance is a compromise - as I get closer you get less room but you get more proximity effect and the chance of popping the mics. Windshields are different from different manufacturers and change the sound of the mic. And these mics are not designed to be close working speech mics. In an ideal world we'd be free to choose but in my real world.... I'll edge in an inch closer. Ta like ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk already have two line audio. Nice Mic. I have also mkh 8050 and 8060. I’m now interested in schoeps and dpa. Because of the modularity for field work.
Thanks Wladimir - I haven't tried the Gefell mics with interchangeable capsules (the 2000 series I think www.microtechgefell.de/mikrofon?wl=182-M270) But all their mics that I have tried are very good indeed! Though quite a bit bigger than the Schoeps or DPA by the look of them. Ta like, ppm6.
Eric - lovely video, great recording too. Those CM4s sound super, mind you I think the guitar and the playing make a great sound which makes recording it much easier. Deserves a lot more views! What preamps are you using and is that a Neumann KM105 sneaking out behind the guitar in the D18 video? Thanks for the post, ppm6.
Eric that is great gear and a reminder I have a Grace 500 preamp but no rack to put it in, long story. Must heat up the search for a 500 rack. Was sorry to leave behind the KM104 when I left the BBC, I should add the 105 to the 'have a listen to this' list. Keep on playing! Ta like, ppm6.
Hi Roland, thanks for being honest. We can only speak as we find. The one clear thing I would say is that the CM4 is a bargain however you look at it. Enjoyed some of your Forth videos, I was trying to remember if there was a Forth implementation for the Amiga - I don't remember one but I was more interested in REXX at the time. Ta like, ppm6.
The Schoeps was a little better at off-axis rejection -I heard a little bit more room sound kick in when you went to the CM4, but it really is stunning for the price. My word. Very minimal difference to the Schoeps -And at nearly a 10th of the price?!?
Just received new pair of CM4 and will never look back!
Thank you so much for a great channel !
Hi Serge - I hope you make some great music and some great recordings, Roger is a genius. Ta like, ppm6.
How can I get a pair?
@@johncarlosceballosgonzalez4104 lineaudio.se/contact.html
I owned a Schoeps CMC1/MK4 and i must say that i'm impress by the Line Audio CM4 that have a flatter and linear response to my ears than the Schoeps that is a little bit higher on the mid-highs and highs... But in such sound's similarity, that's a question of personal tastes and recording situations, but of course the price for the CM4 is unbeatable! I will probably try it! Thanks for the review!
Hi JP - I'm guessing you don't have the Schoeps any more? Well I borrowed the review one, I would love to have one in the cupboard but Santa failed again this year! The CM4 is no doubt a labour of love and a tour de force. I haven't found anyone with a serious criticism and at the price it's a bargain. Thanks for the comment, now what is the French for bargain? Ta like, ppm6.
It's a bargain. = C'est une affaire.
thank you for your amazing effort in such a transparent comparison. The off axis test is amazing and very useful
Glad you liked it! Ta like, ppm6.
I'm always impressed, how damn good these Line Audio Mics work - I own the "old" CM3 - and that's a fantastic bang for the bug. The CM4 should be more or less the same with minimal differences to the CM3.
Well done, Line Audio
Well done indeed and well said Peter. I don't think there's much difference between the CM3 and the CM4. I have bugged Roger about producing a hypercardioid but he says he's too busy making CM4's. A testimony to their success and indeed their quality. Ta like, ppm6.
In those recordings the CM4 definately sound more natural to my ears, the Schoeps have some kind of hyped midrange. But that those two mics can sound so close at all with such a huge price gap and both made in Europe (Roger make the cm4 himself in Sweden and do no marketing at all plus direct sale) is kind of amazing.
Yes, Roger does a remarkable job. He doesn't need to do marketing because first the product speaks for itself and second people can hear in the YT videos what it can do. Ta like, ppm6.
He don't do direct sale anymore isn't it? How do he get noticed when he just started the business?
I keep being amazed with how perfect those Schoeps mics are, but that CM4 is doing amazing work for such a low price!
Hi Zaim - the Schoeps are incredible mics - many, many recordists use them on top location jobs for a reason! Not to mention their use in classical music studios around the world. The only problem is price - well for me at least. But then you have the CM4 option - and they are so cheap as to be practically stealing! Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk I totally agree. I probably won't ever buy a Schoeps mic because of the price, but I do think a CM4 is in my future.
My three favorite small diaphragm condensers in order are the Schoeps CMC6 with the Mk22 capsule, then the DPA 4011a, and then the Line Audio CM4.
I got obsessed and have discovered and listened to a lot of high-quality recordings to compare since I discovered the CM4 on your Channel, and the fact that I like it more than ANY of the small diaphragm Sennheiser, Shure, and Neumann microphones says a lot. I am blown away by how they accomplished this for so cheap a price.
It really sounds somewhere between a Sennheiser MKH 50 and the Schoeps MK22. And both of those mics are many times the price of it. It's shocking.
Thanks Zaim - schocking is good description - the CM4 is shockingly good! Ta like, ppm6.
If I want to document everyday, travel, UA-cam contents with behind and distance talk, want to move into game and music making too, I will get the Panasonic HC-X1500 camcorder 25-600mm F1.8-4 for video and Sony A7RV with 16-35mm F4 PZ mainly for photo, and audio gears I will get Sennheiser MKE 440, MKE 600, Line Audio CM4 and Deity HD-TX, are these good setup? I think better get either an actual pocketable RX100 VII camera or proper size A7RV camera since it provide better qualities and usabilities like unique 4 ways screen and also cameras in between of these sizes still need to carry in bag but I not sure should I reduce the projects I want to photograph like macro since we can just google them and let these specialists achieve them and I can just get an always with me RX100 VII? I hope there is a left handed camera so I can film on one hand and photograph on another when I want to, but I come up with the idea to film with DJI P3 when using A7RV and photograph with iPhone 15 when film with HC-X1500, good or there is alternative? I will use the MKE 440 stereo mic for video, MKE 600 shotgun mic to record elements for developments and CM4 pencil condenser for vocal and instruments and HD-TX as recorder but I not sure how to record my behind the camera commentary at same time, if I can just get one between MKE 600 and CM4 by extract mono track from one of the MKE 440 stereo mics if I don't have fully sound treated room and also if the recorder is right for me?
They are certainly different in the mids. the Schoeps has an excellent clarity in the low mids, no muddiness at all compared to the Line Audio. Just my opinion. Thanks for your excellent videos!!!
Hi Cory - the Schoeps is a tremendous mic, I just wish I could afford to own one! Ta like, ppm6.
Yes...COME ON ROGER!!
I got the CM4 on your recommedation and after listening to your tests and it’s a wee ripper!
Hi Doug - glad that worked out so well. A wee ripper indeed. I don't know what Roger's secret is except painstaking work I suppose. I only wish he would apply it to a hypercardioid. Just working on the CM4 v Schoeps close in video. Happy recording. Ta like ppm6.
The room resonance is very distracting in this test and masking a lot of the microphones characteristics.
From my own comparison test with the CM4 and Schoeps ccm41(supercardioid), at 1m distance the Schoeps has more body/ lower mids while the CM4 has a slightly more scooped sound compared to the Schoeps.The CM4 is extremely sensitive to contact noise and plosives/wind but a good shockmount and wind protection will take care of that. The CM4 waveforms look more lopsided.
The CM4 is not perfect, but I am still very impressed!
Hi Jimi - thanks for the comment. There's not enough hurdy gurdy on UA-cam, that's what I say. What's in your hurdy recording bag? Nagra VI plus a Sound Devices? Or is that a Zaxcom. I'm squinting here. Of course the CM4 is flat to 100Hz and the Schoeps rolls off gently below 150 - not that graphs are everything. A hurdy gurdy cover of 'It's a long way to the top if you want to Rock and Roll' = would be a hit I'm sure. I wonder if you know my pal Lionel P - he's an ancienne Belgique sound wrangler? Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Hi! In my hurdy gurdy (and also the regular) recording bag is a Cooper cs104 mixer (beaten but still running) and an SD744t. Bit of a classic kit, so to say. The Cooper preamps are fine!
I agree with what you say about graphs, they're an indication but does not define the real life character of the mic. I will be getting a second CM4 for stereo duties because they cost pennies and they are decent mics.
AB is in Bruxelles, Belgium and I am from NL so I wouldn't know. It's a great venue though!
Respect to a CS104! Hollywood preamps - I have a very battered example here - must do a video some time. One of the meters is lazy and it's seen a lot of action but I love it. I did on one occasion fill it up with Sanyo Eneloop batteries. Bad move as they are slightly fatter I think than non rechargeables and got stuck in the battery tubes. I wish I had the direct out mod. Lovely machine. I do miss my 744t great recorder which I partnered with a 442, used to run hot as I remember but brilliant bit of kit. AB - I recorded The Darkness there many years ago - great night. I'm jealous of your Schoeps rig - have you got a figure of 8? I'm thinking that is M&S on the street. And I have to say I'm now watching Hurdy Gurdy videos - well I'm taking a short break now for Love is Only A Feeling. Ta like, ppm6.
If I’m interpreting the meters in the background correctly, it appears you were compressing and gating the signals. Is this correct? Suspect this would significantly color the comparison of any two mics.
MK4 is a true cardioid whereas CM4 is more of a wide cardioid. Maybe the comparison should be done between MK22 and CM4. What do you think? (CM3 subcardioid would match MK21.)
Hi Jussunen, I think you are right the CM4 is probably closer to the MK22. I have to borrow the Schoeps from Martin at soundkit.co.uk and so I can't always try all the options. Unless Santa brings me Schoeps for Christmas. That would be nice! Check out the sE8 might be closer to the MK4?
ua-cam.com/video/T5f2JFjSILE/v-deo.html
Thanks for the comment. Ta like, ppm6.
A very interesting comparison. At the end of the day, the question is - how valuable is the audio you are capturing? It's the same for every endeavour, e.g photography, information technology, or buying a home. It's all about value.
I do not think this is just about frequency response, but what I would call resolution. How responsive is one capsule against another. I found the Schoeps more intelligible, and easier to discern what was being said. If I was running a show which had a lot of money invested in it, or recording voice over for a Hollywood blockbuster, I'd not bother with trying to save money, just go with the Schoeps, and forget about choosing.
I feel there is this huge middle ground of wanna be products, that have a captive market - we all want something for nothing, but in truth, that is usually not the case, unless you do your research properly, and have a lucky find. But that research in itself, costs time and money and has risks - so the true cost of buying cheap has all kinds of consequences, including durability. I bought one of the original Rode NT1's and have rarely used it, but recently when I needed it the most, to do a comparison with some other cheap Chinese microphones that had been bought by a colleague of mine, for the church, my Rode NT1 was no longer working reliably. I think I bought this in 2002 or 2003, so sure its 20 years old, but you can understand what I mean. Microphones should be able to outlive us, cos they are tools that are important, at the time we need them.
This I think is the argument against the "pretenders". The quality of design and manufacture of the higher end microphones, only becomes apparent, when you need them to not fail, at that very important event. Thankfully my NT1 failed when no one was there, sparing me the embarrassment, of a lifetime.!
So sound quality, which thankfully can be somewhat discerned, in spite of UA-cam's audio compression, is only one criteria. Unfotunately most youtube reviewers never discuss this aspect.
Thanks Okay for the taking the time to pack in a lot of wisdom. No doubt if you have the budget a Schoeps is a good buy. It will last a lifetime, will retain value and parts and service will be available. Having said that Roger at Line Audio has been in business a long time now and what he offers is a fine product at an affordable price. As you say the question of value then is a personal one. Interesting experience with the Rode. I'm interested to know what you would recommend from the 'middle ground' section of the market?
Thanks for dropping by. Ta like, ppm6.
Subscribed. Just pulled the trigger on a pair of CM4s. I work often with Schoeps, but the CM4s are gonna be used a lot I suspect!
Hi Andre - Thanks for subscribing! Lucky you to be putting Schoeps out on gigs, but I hope you really enjoy the CM4's, they are the biggest bargain in microphones and Roger does a great job. Hope you have a lot of fun with them! Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Cheers! I've already used the CM4s on a gig and I must say they do deliver! Such a great little microphone. I've used them on Oboes, and all the frequencies I needed where there. Fantastic. Thanks for your review!
Hi Andre - glad the CM4s are working out - what was the rest of your record rig? Ta like, ppm6.
hey man great video, i was wondering do u think se se7 is a good choice, in my country i cant buy ur recommendation (cm4) and i wanted to hear if u think se7 could be as good as cm4.
thank u
Hi Arash, good question! I haven't tried the sE7 but I have tried the sE8 - have a listen here
ua-cam.com/video/T5f2JFjSILE/v-deo.html
In the UK the sE8 is cheaper than the the CM4... but some people have complained that the sE8 has higher self noise than the figures quoted in the specification. I am investigating this with sE and so far I would agree that the sE8 is a noisier than the 13dBA figure given in the spec. But life is complicated! Can your budget stretch to the sE8. I also have some Lewitt mic videos - the Lewit mics (040) are much cheaper than the CM4 or the sE8. In the mean time I'll look out for an sE7. Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk oh SE seems cheesy ...apparently 040 is rare too. and mostly its sold as a two piece . hard to find but i can find it ... but do u think its good as cm4? ( i checked 040 .the self noise is 20dba thats a little too much ). i really loved mc4 a true flat frequency and detailed, small and no other unnecessary options. its such a beautiful mic its like god created mic...
Hi Arash - the Lewitt 140 has a flat setting that might be of interest but it is more expensive than the CM4, have a listen. ua-cam.com/video/sc2dmO0d6JM/v-deo.html
But the CM4 is a stunning mic - Roger does supply direct - I'm not sure how shipping might work to where you live but why not try him direct?
www.lineaudio.se/contact.html
All the best with your search! Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk God bless 🙏
Thanks to Martyn at Soundkit for the loan of the CMC1 and MK4, he's a diamond geezer - I don't do affiliate links.
Schoeps CMC1 - www.soundkit.co.uk/product/9004570/schoeps-cmc-1-miniature-mic-preamp
The MK4 is a typical cardiod at 90 degrees at about -6dBs, it just includes the 0 to +5dB range in the graph. It's really good at 180 degrees.
Are you based in South Wales?? (Martyn is local to me, lovely guy).
I am indeed in Old South Wales , the original and still the best I always think. I could do with one of those Canon FL 55 1.2s, lovely lovely shots. Mind you on my ancient GH 2 it would be a 110! Martyn is a good guy and very generously lends me things I would never otherwise be able to test. One day I will review the LSP4 mixer he made back in his Filmtech days. Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Cardiff based myself, small world! I remember thinking Martyn would make a good documentary subject when I met him. Very interesting back-story on him.
The 55mm FL is nice but baaaaarely sharp enough for FF let alone crop sensors 😅
Aristotle - where do you see the CK63 for 160 Euros?
Great review. The CM4 is easier on my ears!! Wow! I plan to pick a few for voice over and music tracking. Great job, Roger!
Hi John, Roger is a good man and makes great mics, hope you enjoy them. Ta like, ppm6.
Listening again to the comparison. Schoeps has more resolution, CM4 more body, but still a winner!! For the $$, it's a no brainer choice.
Hi John, the Schoeps is standard issue for Hollywood film sound recording and also for the orchestral studio work. In a way we should say 'of course it is better than the CM4' but it just shows what a bargain the Line Audio mic is! Thanks for watching. Ta like, ppm6.
If I want to document everyday, travel, UA-cam contents with behind and distance talk, want to move into game and music making too, I will get the Panasonic HC-X1500 camcorder 25-600mm F1.8-4 for video and Sony A7RV with 16-35mm F4 PZ mainly for photo, and audio gears I will get Sennheiser MKE 440, MKE 600, Line Audio CM4 and Deity HD-TX, are these good setup? I think better get either an actual pocketable RX100 VII camera or proper size A7RV camera since it provide better qualities and usabilities like unique 4 ways screen and also cameras in between of these sizes still need to carry in bag but I not sure should I reduce the projects I want to photograph like macro since we can just google them and let these specialists achieve them and I can just get an always with me RX100 VII? I hope there is a left handed camera so I can film on one hand and photograph on another when I want to, but I come up with the idea to film with DJI P3 when using A7RV and photograph with iPhone 15 when film with HC-X1500, good or there is alternative? I will use the MKE 440 stereo mic for video, MKE 600 shotgun mic to record elements for developments and CM4 pencil condenser for vocal and instruments and HD-TX as recorder but I not sure how to record my behind the camera commentary at same time, if I can just get one between MKE 600 and CM4 by extract mono track from one of the MKE 440 stereo mics if I don't have fully sound treated room and also if the recorder is right for me?
I' ve been waiting years before starting to complaint about these mic-tests performed
in the free-field, and this is my first observation: one of the big differences between a high-end mic and a mid-low-end one lies in the frequency response in the diffuse-field.
Please, settle the mics 4-6-10 meters away from a sound-source, and then a Schoeps
(or DPA, or Sennheiser, Sanken, SDC Neumann) stands up clearly.
Anyhow, these Line Audios are little gems, indeed.
My Best Regards
Hi Sandro, the great Geoff Atkins who used to mix the BBC orchestra here in Wales used to say, 'all mics sound pretty good close up, you need to hear them at a distance to really tell which the good ones are.' Ta like ppm6
CM4 all day. The Schoeps sounds hyped in the high frequencies in comparison.
Thanks Daniel, another fan for Roger at Line Audio! Ta like, ppm6.
Great comparison, interesting indeed. To my own ears, they're not even remotely close. The Schoeps was better on every metric - the lows were tighter, the mids were more detailed and the highs were more realistic and less harsh. Having said that, it is reflected in the price. If that's a consideration for you, the Line Audio sounds like a competitive microphone that could make fantastic recordings.
Thanks Lawrence - I think the world is a better place because Schoeps and Line Audio both make microphones. I'm a little sad that I can't afford a Schoeps and I'm a bit sad that Line Audio are so busy making and selling CM4s that Roger has no time to make his mic amps. Ta like, ppm6.
If I want to document everyday, travel, UA-cam contents with behind and distance talk, want to move into game and music making too, I will get the Panasonic HC-X1500 camcorder 25-600mm F1.8-4 for video and Sony A7RV with 16-35mm F4 PZ mainly for photo, and audio gears I will get Sennheiser MKE 440, MKE 600, Line Audio CM4 and Deity HD-TX, are these good setup? I think better get either an actual pocketable RX100 VII camera or proper size A7RV camera since it provide better qualities and usabilities like unique 4 ways screen and also cameras in between of these sizes still need to carry in bag but I not sure should I reduce the projects I want to photograph like macro since we can just google them and let these specialists achieve them and I can just get an always with me RX100 VII? I hope there is a left handed camera so I can film on one hand and photograph on another when I want to, but I come up with the idea to film with DJI P3 when using A7RV and photograph with iPhone 15 when film with HC-X1500, good or there is alternative? I will use the MKE 440 stereo mic for video, MKE 600 shotgun mic to record elements for developments and CM4 pencil condenser for vocal and instruments and HD-TX as recorder but I not sure how to record my behind the camera commentary at same time, if I can just get one between MKE 600 and CM4 by extract mono track from one of the MKE 440 stereo mics if I don't have fully sound treated room and also if the recorder is right for me?
I want to record bird sounds in my backyard during the morning chorus. Do you think a pair of Line Audio CM4s would be a great solution ? ( I dont want to record the sound of a specific bird rather all the birds during the morning chorus. )
Hi newlifeeveryday - now that is a good question! Can I start by asking what recording solution you plan to use? The two main problems with mics outside are wind noise and damp. So I would recommend getting proper windshields to protect your mics. The supplied foam is fine for indoors but on a windy day it's not going to be enough outside. Rycote make a great range of windshields but you'll find you might be spending quite a bit of cash, pro windshields aren't cheap and you'll need two of them. You will also need a stand or clamp of some sort and a stereo bar. Manfrotto make a great magic arm and K&M top stereo bars.
Some people prefer an MS format solution outside but that requires a figure of 8 mic and they are hard to find and expensive. Omni mics are less prone to wind noise but generally not as useful as a cardioid. Line Audio make an Omni - for the same price as the CM4, it's a little bit noisier.
lineaudio.se/Omni1.html
But I would ask - have you other plans for your mics other than outdoors? Sorry for such a long answer. Ta like, ppm6.
Does the CM4 need a phantom power supplie?Or it work like a dynamic mic ? Thank you.
Hi - the CM4 accepts standard phantom from 12v to 48v. Lineaudio recommend 48v for the best performance. Ta like, ppm6.
Hi thank you very much for you're information from France 👍
Are there noticable differences between the proximity effect between the two?
They both sound remarkably similar in this video!
That is a very good question, and a little bit of a sore point. How close should we get in review. And I think the answer is a variety of distances is probably ideal. So If I get the chance (soundkit.co.uk have already let me have the mic for a couple of weeks, ta Martyn!) I'll do a Paradise Lost video at different distances. Two things I know, the Schoeps is a fantastic mic and the Line Audio is an unbelievable bargain. Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk I'm looking forward to it!
CM4? I hear that it’s a bit more directional than my CM3s are; the CM3 is more “hypo cardioid” than cardioid. (“Hypo” not to be confused with “hyper”, mind!) “Broad cardioid” or “wide cardioid” could be another way to describe the CM3, which is to say, it’s not quite deaf to the rear. But I don’t think more directionality is what I want. I mostly record classical music, and a pair of CM3s combined with a pair of OM1s is what I use. (Line Audio OM1, mind - I know there’s a different brand that makes an OM1 which is quite different).
Hi Lau, to be honest I'm not sure what the differences are between the CM3 and the CM4. I will ask Roger. But I have heard that the CM4 is a bit tighter but it is not a 'tight' cardioid. I wish Roger would make a figure of 8 and a hyper-cardioid, but he says he is far too busy making CM4s. He is a victim of his own success. Sounds to me like you have the microphones covered, unless you need some 'spot' mics. How about a Grace space bar? Wonderful bit of kit! What's the rest of your gear? Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Oh, I have way too much gear! Nothing terribly expensive, though - Neumann is a bit too much for my purse, let alone Schoeps. I hadn’t heard of these Grace spacebars (sounds like some chain of Star Trek saloons) It looks like a very nice (and pricy?) system, but I have a few Manfrotto and K&M bars that serve similar purposes.
Thanks Lau - I bought the Spacebar when Grace changed distributors here in the UK. It still wasn't cheap! Mind you K&M and Monfrotto both make excellent mic supports. I have a K&M quad bar and somewhere a big Monfrotto lighting bar that also doubles as a long mic bar. Sadly I don't ever see a spacebar on Ebay. Ta like, ppm6.
This is a situation where I don't trust UA-cam's video compression and its effect on sound quality.
I wish YT would offer an option where you could trade audio against video bandwidth. So we could have uncompressed audio and lower bit rate video. Having said that the CM4 is very good! Ta like, ppm6.
The sweedish Line Audio is not as good as the schoeps but its an excellent choice regarding the high price of the German mic .
I think that is pretty fair - Schoeps make some of the world's best mics but at a price. Line Audio make excellent value for money mics and I can afford one! Thanks for the comment. Ta like ppm6.
In a blind taste test, I bet most of these Schoeps fans would pick the SE 8 over Schoeps.
Hi Dan, you know how to hurt a Schoeps fan! But you are right in the sense that you don't need a fifteen hundred dollar mic to make a good recording and just because it says Schoeps on your mics doesn't mean you will make a good recording. But speaking as a wanna be Schoeps fan I wish I could afford one, and if they had a sale I would buy two! Thanks for the feedback, Ta like, ppm6.
Costs $1000 to get those highs right
The Schoeps is tremendous no doubt. Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Probably comes down to $20 of caps/resistors. Wonder if the Line Audio could be easily modded. Would love to see inside the mics, hard to find teardowns for DIYers :)
Hearing the difference between two good quality condenser microphones over youtube crappy 128kps compressed audio? naaaah way
I find it a bit sad that YT is all about the video and doesn't seam so bothered about sound I would happily upload a slide show and uncompressed audio if that were an option. What did you replace the Martin with? Ta like, ppm6.
Gigantic mics 😆
Colossuses even.
I like your reviews, but it is a bit far from the mic. I hear to much from the room.
Thanks Wladimir - distance is a compromise - as I get closer you get less room but you get more proximity effect and the chance of popping the mics. Windshields are different from different manufacturers and change the sound of the mic. And these mics are not designed to be close working speech mics. In an ideal world we'd be free to choose but in my real world.... I'll edge in an inch closer. Ta like ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk maybe you try from above, pointing your chin/chest?
Wladimir - will you buy the Schoeps or the Line Audio?
@@ppmtv-qh9qk already have two line audio. Nice Mic. I have also mkh 8050 and 8060. I’m now interested in schoeps and dpa. Because of the modularity for field work.
Thanks Wladimir - I haven't tried the Gefell mics with interchangeable capsules (the 2000 series I think www.microtechgefell.de/mikrofon?wl=182-M270) But all their mics that I have tried are very good indeed! Though quite a bit bigger than the Schoeps or DPA by the look of them. Ta like, ppm6.
Just for an actual use case, here is a pair of CM4s in XY ua-cam.com/video/cgHD4I-wsgk/v-deo.html&lc=UgzztmhoZqVhy1Qo17l4AaABAg
Eric - lovely video, great recording too. Those CM4s sound super, mind you I think the guitar and the playing make a great sound which makes recording it much easier. Deserves a lot more views! What preamps are you using and is that a Neumann KM105 sneaking out behind the guitar in the D18 video? Thanks for the post, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk thanks for the kind words! this is through a Grace m108 preamp. And yes, thats a 105, my go to live vocal mic!
Eric that is great gear and a reminder I have a Grace 500 preamp but no rack to put it in, long story. Must heat up the search for a 500 rack. Was sorry to leave behind the KM104 when I left the BBC, I should add the 105 to the 'have a listen to this' list. Keep on playing! Ta like, ppm6.
i must be deaf, I can't hear the difference !
Hi Roland, thanks for being honest. We can only speak as we find. The one clear thing I would say is that the CM4 is a bargain however you look at it. Enjoyed some of your Forth videos, I was trying to remember if there was a Forth implementation for the Amiga - I don't remember one but I was more interested in REXX at the time. Ta like, ppm6.
The Schoeps was a little better at off-axis rejection -I heard a little bit more room sound kick in when you went to the CM4, but it really is stunning for the price. My word. Very minimal difference to the Schoeps -And at nearly a 10th of the price?!?