The NEW best cheap in the mic world, the sE8? Or can the Line Audio CM4 hang on...
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- Опубліковано 10 жов 2021
- The sE8 has claimed noise figures as good as the Neumann KM184, in fact all the specs for this SDC cardioid are top drawer. But it's price is just over the $100 mark. For a long time the CM4 has flown the flag against high end competition from Neumann, Schoeps, Sennheiser, Shure and AKG - will it be sE that finally dethrones the Swedish legend? Thanks to Ken at www.apogeeav.co.uk for the kind loan of the sE8. You can get him at connect@apogeeav.co.uk - enjoy.
01:00 What's in the box...
01:25 sE8 and CM4 close up
03:03 sE8 Pads and filters
03:26 sE8 audio
05:02 Line Audio CM4 audio
06:56 CM4 90 degrees off-axis
07:20 sE8 90 degrees off-axis
Nice to see an alternative to the cm4, with a bit of a different flavor to the sound
Totally agree - it is a choice and there are good reasons for appreciating both - and then choosing the best one for the job you have in mind. Ta like, ppm6.
To me both these mics sound really good here, on some applications I would reduce the highs of the sE8 a little. An important thing to know about the sE8: there are optional omni capsules available, also for a really good price!
Oli you are so RIGHT - I forgot to mention the interchangeable capsule - will do on the video with the KM184 - I'm rooting for sE to make a hyper capsule for it. Then it will be the one mic to rule them all! Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk looking forward to your next video (KM184 vs sE8). Btw I compared the sE8 (both capsules) to the Audio Technica AT4051b (cardioid) and 4049b (omni). To me, this mics are very close to each other, so who knows, maybe a hypercardioid capsule would be a real contender to the legendary AT4053b…?
Oli - you have read my mind - I've asked Ken at apogeeav.co.uk to do some digging - a hyper and a figure of eight would be awesome! 184 video coming. Ta like, ppm6.
very useful information once again, I really liked the sE8 better than the CM4. I wonder how would they compare to the octava mk012
That is a good question. I have heard so many good things about the Octava mics but for some reason just never run into them, must try harder. Ta like, ppm6.
Hi thank you for these. Really helpful. How do you think the sontronics stc1s hold up to these 2?
Hi PR - sadly I haven't had a go on the Sontronics STC1, something I need to try and rectify. The big advantage of the STC1 in my book is that it has a hyper cardioid capsule option. The sE only has an omni or cardioid capsules. Having said that the STC1 and the sE8 look pretty close at the top end of the frequency response curves but the STC1 has a cheeky bass lift below 300 Hz. However if you want 'flat as a ruler' then the Line Audio CM4 is the way to go! I'll try and get an STC1 in and give it a whirl! Ta like, ppm6.
Wow, you're not kidding when you say the sE8 is affordable, great quality and, from this listening test, I think a bit better off axis than the CM4. If I was still in the business I'd be sore tempted. I wonder what handling / movement noise in a pole would be like ?
Thanks Hugh - I've been thinking about a repeatable handling test for a while now and just haven't got anywhere with it. sE have done wonders at the price and if they were to add a hypercardioid capsule they would just clean up! Ta like, ppm6.
I'm extremely impressed with the CM4, especially considering the price and that it's hand built by a guy in his workshop and still manages to compete with the mid level mics. The SE8 is a little better concerning the bass drop off, but then again, it also costs 50 bucks more per mic, so $100 per pair
Thanks for dropping by - I agree the CM4 is a bargain and the sE8 also has much to commend it. We really are living in a time when excellent tools are readily affordable. Ta like, ppm6.
Will you be testing the short shotgun mics like the Deity S-Mic 2S, Sanken CSM1, and Schoeps MiniCMIT?
Hi Dylan - good question - I have tested the Sanken CSM1 -
ua-cam.com/video/-0oX_HH6nxw/v-deo.html
I would highly recommend it, it's a microphone I regretted sending back when I should have bought it! I get my mics from three sources, I own them, or borrow them from Martyn Richards at soundkit.co.uk or get a loaner from the manufacturer. I should be able to get a MiniCMIT from Martyn but the Deity mics are much lower profile in the UK so I'm not sure how easy it would be for me to get one. The first thing I have to do is sort out the 24/96 files for the Patreon page. I have started but it's slow going. Thanks for your interest. Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Maybe Deity will send you the S-Mic 2S for review. There's only a couple good demos/reviews of it actually being used in untreated rooms and outdoors like you'd expect from a location audio mic. Everything else in in treated rooms so not very many references. I'm thinking about the S-Mic 2S as a backup for my MKH 8050. I need it to be a cheap supercardioid with a brass body or another way to shield from interference, though I do have plenty of Oktava MK-012s.
@Dylan J I'm not sure who the Deity distributor is in the UK but I'll have a look - did you get a chance to hear the Audix hypercardioid? Lot's of love for it and it's well made in Germany. I've been looking for one for a while now. Ta like, ppm6.
If I want to document everyday, travel, UA-cam contents with behind and distance talk, want to move into game and music making too, I will get the Panasonic HC-X1500 camcorder 25-600mm F1.8-4 for video and Sony A7RV with 16-35mm F4 PZ mainly for photo, and audio gears I will get Sennheiser MKE 440, MKE 600, Line Audio CM4 and Deity HD-TX, are these good setup? I think better get either an actual pocketable RX100 VII camera or proper size A7RV camera since it provide better qualities and usabilities like unique 4 ways screen and also cameras in between of these sizes still need to carry in bag but I not sure should I reduce the projects I want to photograph like macro since we can just google them and let these specialists achieve them and I can just get an always with me RX100 VII? I hope there is a left handed camera so I can film on one hand and photograph on another when I want to, but I come up with the idea to film with DJI P3 when using A7RV and photograph with iPhone 15 when film with HC-X1500, good or there is alternative? I will use the MKE 440 stereo mic for video, MKE 600 shotgun mic to record elements for developments and CM4 pencil condenser for vocal and instruments and HD-TX as recorder but I not sure how to record my behind the camera commentary at same time, if I can just get one between MKE 600 and CM4 by extract mono track from one of the MKE 440 stereo mics if I don't have fully sound treated room and also if the recorder is right for me?
I still think the CM4 is the best cheap mic that is legitimately good and not "good for the money". I was surprised at the off axis rejection considering it's seen as a "wide/sub cardioid" mic. They're also tiny so you can take them with you no matter what your bag space situation is. I reached out to Roger a while back and he said he was considering a hypercardioid version but has difficulty keeping up with the demand for the CM4 and OM2. Plus they're like half the price of the sE 8.
Hi Dylan, I think that is a valuable distinction between good and 'good for the money'. And as you say the small size and weight are big plusses. Though I did manage to break the plastic insert in my CMEH clip. I too have been badgering Roger about a hypercardioid and indeed a 2MP preamp. But as you say sales of the CM4 and OM2 are just too demanding. Not a bad problem to have. I don't know what is going on with world pricing but here in the UK the CM4 is more expensive than the sE8. One major issue with the sE8 is the noise performance/noise spec. I've had my share of complaints about UA-cam videos not being good enough audio quality to identify real differences so when I get my act together there'll be 24/96 audio files on Patreon covering the issues. Thanks for the comments. Ta like, ppm6.
I think sE7 is the one to compare SM4 against, not the sE8. The sE8 is equiped with true condenser capsule while both, CM4 and sE7, have electret ones.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Now that Roger doesn't sell directly it's hard for me to recommend the CM4 over similarly priced stuff because the dealers mark the mic up. So what used to be an approximately $130 mic can now be noticeably more expensive. That puts it too close the price of the MK-012 ans sE8 IMO, and I'd probably grab either of those first, if only for either interchangeable capsules or better specs respectively.
When Roger still sold them dealers were marking up too, I could buy 3 from Roger for what a pair cost me from one of the NA dealers.
Is it me or is there slightly more noise in the background of the se8. It’s hard to tell. With the talking lol. But I’m sure it is.
Hi - the question of mic self noise (as opposed to ambient noise) is regard to the sE8 is a tricky one. I have been working with sE on the issue and I will post some stuff when I get my ducks in order. There's two questions in regard to noise, first how much is there and second where in the spectrum is that noise. In theory the sE8 has a three dB advantage over the CM4 but in practice..... Many people agree with you in regards to higher audible levels of noise from the sE8 despite the figures. Ta like, ppm6.
Both are solid mics however sE8 is twice the price of cm4;
Love the raw pure clarity of cm4
Hi Serge - indeed both are great choices. Here in the UK I can buy the sE8 for less than the CM4 - both from well respected dealers. Ta like, ppm6.
CM4 still sounds better. SE8 a little too much in the highs imo. Both sound really good. Thanks so much for the trial my friend.
Thanks Cory - I wonder if the that little lift at the top of the sE8 will win friends and influence people. I found it pretty appealing. Thanks for listening and commenting. Take care. Ta like, ppm6.
In fact, sE8 its not made for such closemiking situation. For mid-distance it was made for is the slightly more top end great advantage.
Line audio definitely for me
Roger at Line Audio makes great mics. The sad thing is demand for the CM4 is so large he has no time to make new mics! Ta like, ppm6.
hi. Thank you. May I know why to use a small diaphram rather than a shotgun mic?
Hi Monkey. With the exception of some Audio Technicas
(check out this video - ua-cam.com/video/D4Dsz-tS0Wo/v-deo.html)
all shotgun mics are small diaphragm mics. Reasons to avoid shotgun mics.
1 In doors they can suffer from phase problems due to reflections.
2 They all have interference tubes which work by phase cancellation, this means off axis audio on a shotgun mic is hard to get as good sounding as a standard cardioid.
3 Good shotgun mics are very, very expensive.
So if you don't need the directivity of a shotgun mic then a cardioid, supercardioid or hypercardioid will probably be a better buy. However all this depends on what you are planning to do. If you are outside making documentary TV or video then a shotgun mic is probably the best place to start. What are your plans? Ta like, ppm6.
Will these work good for recording very loud bands in small clubs when i’m in the audience live streaming video?
@@ppmtv-qh9qk you should try the ned DPA 2017, wonderfull shotgun mic, especially for the price
I appreciate what you do in doing mic comparisons…but your environment has so much room reverb that I honestly can never tell any difference in microphones or which sound better in any of your videos.
Hi Danni, thanks for your thoughts. The world of course is a complex place. If I look back at the comments on the videos I find...
Some people say - the differences between the mics are not audible due to UA-cam compression.
Some people say - the differences between the mics are not audible because of the 'room'.
Some people say - there is no audible difference between the mics. Save your money and buy the cheapest.
Some people hear subtle nuanced differences and describe them in great detail.
Some people CLEARLY hear massive differences and post with great CONFIDENCE.
Some people always prefer the sound of the cheaper mics.
Some people always prefer the sound of Neumanns.
Some people think Scheops mics are a scam.
Most people always prefer the sound of the mic that they own.
I think the sE8 sounds a bit brighter than the CM4, exactly as you would expect from the curves.
Ta like, ppm6.
How about using CM4 mic for indoor dialogue on boom stand for interviews etc
Hi Arun, The CM4 will be a fine choice for indoor dialogue. Are you thinking of sound with pictures rather than radio or podcasting? The CM4 is a little wider than some cardioids so you would want to avoid too much headroom in your shot, which would push the mic that bit further away. There is a windshield included in the package but for podcasting or radio I would recommend picking up a good screen like the Hakan Popkiller. What recording device do you have in mind? Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk It's for motion interview ( sound with video ) projects currently i have Oktava Hypercardioid system which is excellent but i want a B mic as a backup with Oktava system my recording machine is F6 & i record only in 32 bit it's lot of fun playing adjusting understanding in post with 32 bit float workflow can't think of going back to 24 bit anymore .🙂
Hi Arun, I haven't tried the Oktava but I have heard lots of good things about it. The CM4 is excellent quality and I have never seen anyone express regrets after buying it, which is always a good sign! The main question is that of polar pattern differences. The hypercardioid Oktava will be tighter and more focused. But that may not be a deal breaker on your B mic and the CM4 is a good bit cheaper. Also if for any reason you want to move on from the CM4 it will be easy to sell, they never come up second hand and you won't lose money. Let us know how it goes, ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk You are right i think i have to try CM4 might be a good investment
Can you tell us the exact interface you use for preampa/da etc?
Hi Malo. I do apologise, I should try to always include that information. For this video I used an RME Micstasy Mic preamp with built in AD this is connected to a MOTU 112D over MADI. I was trying to have less gear around so I sold my Audient iD44 but I kind of still miss it. I went a bit retro and bought an Apogee Mini-Me for analogue to my old MacMini and have enjoyed that too. The 112D is hugely flexible, it is connected to my the MacMini over USB and to my PC via AES3. The great thing is you can control the 112D from the PC over the network connection even though it is not connected by USB or Thunderbolt to the PC. And finally I have a Presonus 16R connected to the PC - which is connected to the 112D over AVB via a Presonus AVB switch. Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk thanks for this sir! Your setup sounds amazing! I was wondering if you could post a simple test of your schoeps mk4 plugged into a consumer recorder only like a zoom. I want to see how different it sounds from your amazing setup. I can also send a donation needed! Thanks so much!
@@shingAMarie Hi Malo - thanks for your kind words and for your offer of a donation. Maybe one day I will sign up to Patreon! Now sadly I don't own the Schoeps - I had to borrow that from a local pro audio shop. And I would need a lot of donations to buy one! I have quite a few Zoom videos here with the F6 and the F4 and one with the H8? Which Zoom did you have in mind? Are you a sound for video guy? The only people I know with Schoeps mics are hardened pros (they are the only people who can afford them!) and they all use Sound Devices or Zaxcom recorders or maybe a Sonosax, Aaton or Nagra. But my old friend Russell, hi Russ!, has Schoeps, he uses Metric Halo gear and that is good stuff. If I come in to some money and can buy a Schoeps I'll borrow an H4N and do the video for your - thanks again. ppm6.
To me, it seems that the CM4 has MUCH better off-axis rejection than the SE8, no??
Overall I think the CM4 is likely to be a good choice in terms of response, it is dead flat, it is very, very affordable. I haven't heard it on a drum kit but if you are willing to engage in a bit of experimentation why not buy and try it. They are held in such high regard you will have no trouble moving it on if it isn't exactly what you want. If I'm right you're planning to buy 5 so having something affordable is definitely a boon. Ta like, ppm6.
The CM4 has a much smoother and natural sound. The SE8 accentuates sibilance.
Hi Tom, the CM4 has the flatter frequency response. The Se8 is more like the Neumann KM184 in that regard it has a presence/top end lift in the frequency response. Ta like, ppm6.
I like the sE8 but those little fiddly switches aren't my cup of tea. CM4 raw quality still reigns. LCT140 vs CM4?
Hi Frank, funny you should say that. The fiddly style of switches (shout out to AKG 451!) have been around for ever on pencil mics, but the LCT140 shows it doesn't have to be that way. My next video is LCT140 v sE8 so stand by! Ta like, ppm6.
In fact I have NEVER had single issue with the switches at all (have 5 pcs of sE8 on my shelf)