Worth The Wait?! | Riding The Pinion E1.12 Motor Gearbox
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
- The EMBN comments have been waiting for us to ride a motor and gearbox combo for a long time! Steve Jones takes a ride on the all-new Pinion E1.12 e bike gearbox, was it worth the wait?
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What do you think of e bike gearboxes? Do you think they are the future? 🤔 Let us know 👇
This is exactly what I want.
Yes.
It sounded very noisy under load.
Came here to write the same comment as everyone else - was it actually as noisy as it sounded on video when the motor was under load.
Definitely for the full fat I ride. The Zerode is being raced with success. The interesting matter is the weight if you lift over gates and walls or use uplift services often. If you have a van or a bigger car, that’s fine, but a smaller car can be difficult for loading this weight of bike. But, I think this will drive development of lightweight emtb beyond where we are today where weight remains an issue just now (not light enough).
"What I love is the silence."
LMAO sounded like riding a printer up the hill 😂
Daisy wheel printer....
@@scottamolinari I was thinking industrial band printer, but maybe that's just me.
Silence @ the DH! Not up the Hill.
I thought he had a fax coming through....😂
@@simongasser529 Right but half a silence is not silence is it? And you spend more time going uphill than down, sadly (well, I do).
Pinion gearbox is a no brainer when it comes to MTB. It clearly makes the most sense.
I was really impressed by this system but now I'm sold, when I get my next e-bike I wont be buying anything but a pinion system with belt drive..Amazing content guys.. Thank you
Same here, I'm not putting my money into bikes with stone age tech anymore, plus the greatly reduced maintenance and running costs of these gearbox belt drive bikes are a no brainer...
Love it. Please, make more ebikes with gearboxes!
All the pluses seemed legit. It was funny when Steve mentioned no noise from the electronic internal shifting, but it sounded like the motor made a lot of noise than the standard shimano/bosch/ broae, etc.
That shifting though seemed pretty incredible when Steve did that sharp 180 at the bottom of a hill and booted it right into a steep climb and it seamlessly slipped into the right gear. That was rad.
It is really that easy to go through the gears in that situation. Also a good feature for start/stop situations while commuting.
I believe the motor is a servo motor from the automobile industry. Proven technology inserted into a ebike.
yeah, there were times where it was difficult to hear him over the noise of the motor.
It's not louder than a Bosch in real life. Also this level of noise is only in Gears 1-4. Pinion say it gets quieter after the first 1000km, I can't verify that yet.
It does sound horrendous in the video though.
Straight-cut gears in the Pinion, possibly.
That's definitely the route the bike drivetrain industry should go. Pretty awesome.
Notice the price isnt mentioned, not that it matters.
@bradsanders6954 it matters to us who struggle with the rising costs..
@@bradsanders6954 it's £9499 in the UK. As I mentioned in a comment separately, you can buy a Honda sports bike for nearly a £1000 less. The whole ebike industry is just taking US for a ride at this point!
To quote a customer who has received the first Pinion MGU in the UK re the motor noise.
"We are both absolutely overjoyed with the bike Scott. The sizing is perfect, the aesthetics are stunning and the ride is outstanding. We can’t understand the fuss there has been about engine whine - yes there’s a small amount of noise but no motor is completely silent! We felt the Simplon was quieter than the Volt which preceded it. I wonder if the microphones used on the video you did with the Rapcon were disproportionally picking up motor noise?"
I bought a Levo in 2022. I’d watched endless maintenance videos, chain checkers etc. I covered over 2,200km & because I didn’t heed the ‘check the chain’ videos, ended up having to have a new chain & cassette on an annual service. Costly. My point is the Pinion system appears far more superior in respect of miles covered without having any maintenance at all & this can only be of massive benefit in the long run with the cost of running an e-bike.
I've been looking too get me a e-bike, but just because the cost and maintenance is so high I have waited. But this Pinion system seems like the obvious way to go.
That’s one big single point of failure, if you regular motor dies you can ride home and if you run shimano the parts are cheap - thought?
@@Whitesp0tI paid 39.99 for a new all steel shimano cassette for my emtb, and 20.00 for an oem shimano chain. It did not break my bank....steve needs 450.00 cassettes but I dont.
@@bradsanders6954 Yeah that is if you pay for the least expensive parts. But when you buy an bike you want and it comes stock with full SRAM GX AXS stock and you live in rocky Norway then you will have a whole other pricetag on that (changed deraillure twice last season). Of course I could buy the cheapest parts. But if I want a reliable, predictable and smooth ride 3 hours in to the woods on an E-bike with 50-100+nm torque, then I want low maintenance bike which todays bikes is not by any means.
@@Whitesp0tI really , really think some of un-reliabilty is having no sympathy for the bike. Granted my Canyon was only 7000.00............nearly free really...............the shimano parts work, actually they work great. I dont mind that I can replace them with out spending 400.00 on a cassette or rear mech...........the poser value doesnt interest me. I have ridden dirtbikes for many years, and always try not to wreck the bike and its parts, its part of the game.....an all steel cassette is WAY tougher than any high dollar Ti or Aluminum cassette...............but it has no cachet.
Yeah, silent when you are going downhill and not pedaling but man it's noisy when the motor is working. Can't believe he didn't address this. I know that some people say the noise is worse in a video than what you actually hear yourself but this was crazy loud.
My thoughts exactly.
It's relative. 1-4 are audible but it's exaggerated in the video. 5-8 are way less. 9-12 is near silent.
I came here to post the same observation.
@@headslash55 nice
Yeah that was so bad, i wonder where the mic was positioned. If it is really that loud relative to ambient noise it would drive me nuts!
At 11:45 there is a good profile view of the front crank system. I notice some type of tensioning spring being the lowest hanging part of the drivetrain. Hopefully this can be raised in the future because it seems like it wouldn’t survive a missed bunny hop over a log in the trail. But overall, a great look into the future of EMTBs.
After owning a Zerode for a few years I'm keen as beans for a pinion E-bike! Just waiting for some better frame options..
very noisy, but love the idea...great for ebikes
Yeah, I am wondering if it IS that loud, or if the camera/microphone setup is picking up more sound that your ears will actually hear.
Yeah good point...was a bit noisy though but love the Idea of low maintenance @@MrMartinSchou
We need a comment from Steve about the motor noise under load....pretty sure he would have called it out if it was as noisy as it seemed to be in the video.
I wonder when one of the brands we are likely to find in one of our UK local bike shops is going to launch a mgu
The way the sucking tyre noise is so loud on the "sound check" makes me think the microphone is amped up a fair bit
YESS! Great video! Includes Steve’s signature move ✓
Bit noisy going up but definitely looking at the future!
SUPER NICE! 👍
A suggestion:
Take also a Rapcon Pmax with a regular drivetrain, put telemetry on shock and rear wheel of both and make a measurement-based systematic comparison of rear wheel traction.
Reduced unsprung mass is the main downhill benefit, and it would be super interesting to know, to which extent it actually helps.
I would love this. Also they should get some pros to ride them back to back downhill and get the impressions.
I already tested two bikes and pre ordered a Bulls Vuca AM2 with the MGU. The noise is more or less comparable to the older Bosch CX.
A bit louder in the small gears and much quieter in the higher gears.
Downhill it's silent 🤫
Congrats on pulling the trigger on that Vuca! My Simplon should arrive next week.
Btw. Pinion says after a break-in of about 1000km it gets quieter. I guess we'll find out!
Thanks!
I have to wait another 5 Weeks...
After my experience, I think everyone who (worries about the "sound") is really interested, has to test it...For me it was a next level E-Bike experience.
Enjoy your Simplon! 😎
Hw did you get the Bulls Am2 in the UK?
I live in Germany.
Thank you for the review! Seems like it would be a great system.
I feel this is the ultimate configuration for emtbs, and perhaps in a few years we’ll see many more iterations of this template by many competitors. My first emtb will likely be a conventional drivetrain type, for initial cost reasons alone, so I hope when it’s time for emtb #2, this tech has price stabilized to more mass consumer level. As it is today, this is premium tech with a premium entry point to match. Good glimpse into the future
Met Steve Jones out on the trails the other day. Real gentleman. Keep up the good work! ☕️
Thanks! I've been waiting for a review on this bike.
Not sure I could live with that noise on the climbs. I really appreciate how quiet my Transition Relay is after upgrading from a Pivot Shuttle XTR. Otherwise, looks pretty cool.
That bike looks awesome.👌
They are the future. Just stakes time to convince the stick in the muds. Traditional transmissions are ancient in design
I rode the Pinion Engine 2 days ago in the Rotwild R.X1000 Chassis and it is impressive
The folks at Pinion have hit it out of the park with this design and technology! I hope the industry recognizes this and adopts this amazing drive unit into there frames.🚴♂🚴♂🚴♂🚴♂🚴♂
I have been following along with Pinion for years. Have always wanted a gearbox bike. I just bought my first eMTB this year and spent a good chunk at 6k euros. I really wanted the pinion but I couldn't wait any longer and the price was quite a bit more. I hope when these integrated gearboxes have more competition from other brands, the price will come down a bit. I really do believe this will be the future. When Shimano and SRAM come on board and OEM's start using them more.......This will only be what people will ride.
Ah the serenity of that quiet motor, amazing idea though
I have the full spec version. So far I am amazed how cool this bike is.
Shifts to the right gear when you don't pedal, but you can also shift under load. The noise is not a loud as in the video, but I like it, it's like a Porsche and it does stop making noise beyond 8th gear.
And this thing goes! I tried hills until i was having my front wheel lift.
Only negative is the engagement until I can pedal, which is annoying compared to my non ebike. I think it's the combo of MGU and rear hub. Looking to get better engagement on hub and will also talk to Pinion about this.
Desire: hold down shift button should quick shift through gears, hope it gets an update.
Thank you for reviewing it for the community ❤
Mine will hit the dealer next week!
If you want better engagement you can buy a 52 Tooth Freehub Kit for the DT Swiss that come with these bikes. I doubt the motor has any engagement issues, but that would be easy to check while stationary.
@@Megabear90 I checked last night, both have an engagement point. But yeah will try with a 52T ratchet next.
Im sold on the idea.
Been waiting a long time for this!
I love this, thank you for reviewing the pinion MGU 🚀
Impressive to say the least. It sounds like you're riding a garbage disposer though.
I wasn’t sure how to describe the noise but I think you hit the nail on the head. 😂
🤣
Right!? Shit was loud AF! First thing I noticed
You have an electric motor and gear box out ain't going to be whisper quite, personally I think it's amazing to see it working
@@zjediniteWhat car do you drive? I hope it's electric for your point to be valid 😉
Do look up where Pinion started from.
Yes they are the future, I want one, 🤘👏
This is a revolution in cargo bikes. the shifting is a bit slow on EMTBs, but on commuter and heavier cargo bikes this is a MASSIVE gamechanger. (Been working in the bike industry for 15 years, 9 years with pure e-bikes.)
Compared to the shifting Performance at Eurobike the newer Software has improved a lot. From what I can tell it should be more than enough for very serious riders. Pair that with the ability to shift under load and without load and you got a winner.
The only Performance downside is skipping a lot of gears, the XX1 gripshifter still reigns supreme there.
thoughts on rohloff e-14 with the gates drive? R&M Load 60 can be configured with this. Fantastic system.
@@jotham123 I have sold plenty of Rohloff, I’m a dealer of R&M, Kettler, Rotwild and Moustache :) I loved Rohloff when it was mechanical with gripshift, you could go from 1-7 super quick. E14 shifts really slow, and have had a fair share of software problems. However, Rohloff 2.0 is coming this year, looking forward to try it. And yesterday, we got our first Kettler with a Pinion system 😁 Btw, Load 60 is the best bike in the world. Nothing, including my Rotwild RE750 Pro makes me smile more.
@@chrisalexandersb1748Great to hear from someone with experience across a huge range of systems! ecargo/commuter direct comparisons are sometimes hard to come by so I highly value the information great to hear.
Interesting about the rohloff 2.0 I'm probably about 3 months out from potentially purchasing a load 60 or 75. Maybe it's worth holding off for the time being, but perhaps R&M waits till 2025 for releasing updated bikes? My poor new Cube ebike has had a hard few months with various component failures (broken spokes, broken pedals, now premature bearing wear LOL). Maybe it will last till then.
Initially I was really keen on the Multicharger2 but the rough paths with bad transitions have me reconsidering. I just can't get over how comfortable the load 60 is to ride. So smooth.
RE: Rotwild RE750 Pro that's a big statement!!
Regarding E14 software and other issues, it's been out for a while so surely it's all sorted and settled down by now?
For me, the stiffness of the rear wheel would be an additional advantage. Nice bike.
10.48 - random middlefinger. Nice bro 😆!
It's XXLnt! i got mine 3 weeks ago! No more 'interbellum tech" hangin' around my rear wheel ! I just let someone print a moat-ring to glue around the little joystickie.
The pinion/transmission/ebike motor and belt drive are awesome. I can see the benefits with an emtb but I would love to see standardization of the motor and transmission mounting system as it would benefit so many different types of bikes. Commuter, cargo, gravel etc. Combining the motor and transmission is such an obvious idea I wonder how many of the other manufacturers have been caught with the comment "why didn't I think of that?" Excellent video and great content. Thank you.
Rob rides Emtb mentioned that. I don't think it would make sense, as all motors have different shapes and sizes, also the integration differs wildly.
With an EMTB every mm matters, so I would hate to see any voids when mounting a motor. Combine that with different batteries, electronics and frames and you might see why a standard shape wouldn't be a good idea in practice.
A universal charging Standard would be excellent though!
Definitely the future! No Noise...and all the important stuff stays CLEAN! I cannot wait until I'm riding one...
Great video, great MGU! Smaller wheels, coil front and rear and proper floating discs, 7k€ and we'd have a great bike.
Lovely bike 👌
Better at maintainance, shifting, preselect, silence, weight distribution, rogedness
Sounds awesome !
Very cool, all it’s missing is regen braking to save on pad wear. Add that and mass produce to cut the price to reasonable levels and this is perfection.
Nearly 1500km on my Flyer Goroc TR:X with the MGU - It's very good but not amazing. noise-wise it really depends hugely on which gear you're in. 3-4 loudish, 5 -6 are pretty quiet, 7 bit loud, 8 too loud, 9 - 12 very quiet (1 - 2 never used they are SOOO low) 😅. Battery life / efficiency is very good. Comfort is great. Power is OK, nothing to write home about (but my previous bike was with a 120Nm Flyon motor !!) A few bugs like some sudden power offs and back on immediately, and occasionally some gear clack / slip straight after a gear change.
Max respect Steve.
About bloody time. Been waiting for one of these ,non derailier grass leaves twigs and mud gatherers to stop all the banging cracking slipping, for ages. Doesn’t quite look like an mtb without the derailier though. How we get used to stuff
i was waiting for this video !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OMG, it’s so loud! How did they manage to make an e-bike louder than a dirt bike?
Look at the Bulls option too.
I have this Bike since 3 weeks and i will never give it back. For me its the best Bike ever. ❤
but the range sucks, the 720 battery was flat after 800m of elevation.
finally. im not buying a new e bike until this is dialed in and available on most bikes
Very cost effective compared to other electric bikes. Love the concept with a strap instead of a chain. If they can cut the noise, it will be wonderful 🙌
Holly molly :) this is a perfect mtb. Automatic? :) I am in heaven 🤪🤪🤩🤩🤩
This looks like the dream!
What’s it like to pedal above the speed limit? Or with the motor turned off?
It didn’t sound that noisy at 12:11 I think the on board noise was just the mic sensitivity.
Looks great and auto shifting is clever. Inky problems I see are, wotha chain you can carrier a spare link to get you going. Do you have to carry a spare belt, if it did snap and you had a spare, you would have to take the frame apart on the trail to fit a new belt.
Nosie as fk !!
I'm pretty sure Bosch/Shimano/Yamaha etc are busy building testing the internal autobox, looking forward to seeing the next evolution 👍
That will take years because it's no easy task. The MGU is patented..
And of course normal e-bike motors are still superior in some areas like weight and noise.
It could be the straight cut gears?
@@NotAnonymousNo80014 The normal pinon box is silent and used the same gears so I'm surprised with the noise it makes. I'd have to hear one in the flesh to be sure.
Interesting. However I will wait it out for second or third gen attempts
Love the zeroed bikes from New Zealand 🇳🇿 and have wanted an ebike zeroed for a long time! What’s the price of this ebike
Hi, great video, when I go ebike I want o go with this system, not a huge choice at the moment so hopefully a relatively simple question, what’s the Simplon like to ride, I like pretty steep, with features (not massive) Surrey Hills Redlands, Peaslake, BPW, Dyfi and Morzine. Clearly the system is impressive but would you recommend the Simplon if it was a standard ebike without the Pinion?
Finally something revolutionary, not just evolutionary additions to the original MTB and almost chaotic subindustry motor and battery standards and incompatibility over the years...solution wise a no brainer to me.
I wanna see you do one of your epic rides on this next please 🙏
It’s the future! On another note, I can now say my Spesh Kenevo SL 1.1 motor noise isn’t the loudest.
😂
Almost perfect bike for me..can't pay for it but if the power unit was more silent like the tq ones, but with full power speed pedelec class it would be my number 1 dream bike.
I love muddy rides but I hate to clean up after. Especially when you come home with 2kg of mud between front derailleur, leave it caking on for a day or 2 and find out all the links on the chain are stuck.
what a noisy bike! seems like you have a smoothie blender in there!
I love that noise, it gives it character
It’s not actually that loud in real life. The microphone amplifies the sound quite a bit. It’s not silent though.
Wouaaaa !!!!! je le veux !!
Looks great but, One thing that worries me is, in Aus here we have heaps of rocks that thing (which looks like a belt tensioner) underneath behind the motor wouldn't last one ride.
I like the concept and the ease of shifting and all hidden away from the elements. The motor on this bike really seemed loud going up hill. I'm sure that will get worked out at some point. You didn't mention how much it costs.
Ebike FUTURE!!!!
👍Interesting😊, since the weight is "only" 23.8 kg😊.......but... There is a test left to do, when the battery capacity can be up to 1600wh, it tells me that the friction in the gearbox is probably quite high.
Compare this with a similar Emtb with 85Nm engine, same size battery, but with the usual 12-speed system and we'll find out😘
It has already been tested: for example uphill with 130w pedal input - bosch cx vs mgu it's around 7-8% but the MGU is a bit more powerful and faster in this case.
@@holger_ger3391
👍I would like to know how long, for example, an 800wh battery lasts on each Emtb with the same driver, with the same power and the same distance, which one goes the farthest should show which drive system has the least friction😊
Hello. How many kilometers does the battery last for such aggressive riding? After how many hours did the battery become completely discharged?
Must buy one👍👍👍
Least we know it works for a cube stereo frame! Basically what it is practically a double of my new cube frame lease got a alloy arcoss head set cap but see its got headset cable routing same as the cubes arcoss headset, hopefully we can buy a straight motor swap over soon or a universal mount to mount it in the bosch or shimano mounts
I doubt it. You would also need to exchange all electronics and the battery and I doubt it would work due to the size.
Very nice! I love the central weight distribution aspect, real balance there. I also like the power of the system in the top line machine. Question. Are these road legal as bicycles in the UK or must they be registered? What sort of long distance touring on public roads can be done on these bikes? The endurance batts and high power motor look ideal. Thanks
Is there a unrestricted version or a speed chip for this motor and gearbox going to be made? If there isn't then they may as well make it a 6 or 8 speed as at the top speed of 15.5mph in the UK having the faster gears is just a waste of time and it would reduce the overall weight.
There's only the 25kmph 600w version and the 45 kmph 800w version.
That's it currently.
Love the idea and technology for this. Lots of pluses. But the noise from the motor was pretty loud. Are there plans to improve that? As much as I pedal with my emtb that would be a deal killer to have a motor that loud.
It's quite exaggerated in the video due to the location of the mic. It's only really loud in gear 1-4. 5-8 is quiter. 9-12 is near silent.
Should be wireless shifting , but aside that, that is spot on
Agree with the general assessment: excellent idea, but they need to figure out the noise issue. It’s a nascent technology. I believe they’ll figure out with time.
Pinion seem to have improved on the early prototype shown at Eurobike 2023. It is a pity that they are so difficult to get in the UK.
It sounds like you’re riding a washing machine on spin cycle! 😂
Hi Steve - having seen the bike in the flesh at F.O.D when you were testing I thought it was a very tidy looking piece of kit and you seem pretty impressed with what it delivers but like some other comments - seems rather noisy, on a par with a well used Bosch Gen2 is my thoughts! Was that the motor or the gearbox and is it something they are likely to improve on given how much they have progressed since the bike show? Still remain sceptical regarding the belt drive coping over time with the general crud and dust from the trails as so far it has only really been pushed in a less demanding urban environment. Hopefully time will prove us all wrong 😎
Many long travel riders are using belts all over the world in every condition for year's. It didn't last forever but much much longer than chains. An yes cleaning a belt drive is also a good idea.
what is the inter-changeability of this motor to put on current eMTBs with traditional motors? If there is such capability, which motors can it replace (assuming motor mount geo/location) and/or is it specific to brands of bike (Specialized, Canyon, etc). Lastly, cost??? Thank you!
Super weird how he didn't address that uphill under load chainsaw noise.
It does make some noise in the lower gears. But it's exaggerated in the video.
@@headslash55 According to the latest motor shootout it is the noisiest motor out there. I have been waiting for this solution for years but this test unfortunately ignored commenting on the sound when pedaling up hill.
That motors having an asthma attack
How is the engagement in the cranks? Saw the regular pinion gerbox and the engagement was really bad.
would love to see more brands adopting gearboxes
Nice 👌
I think they are the future, noise was a bit of concern
WOW - crazy loud! Is that the motor, the belt or both?
Got to be the motor? Can't imagine the belt is noisy.
It's pretty exaggerated in the video, irl is quieter.
Shifting looks great. But motor noise is too much if that's what we here. Weight? Power loss of drivetrain? Durability? Maintenance? Gearbox looks to be future, I would buy one.
hear vs here.
I"m not in need until they hide the battery etc and the whole bike is more stealth. But the march is on and its a really great effort.
Want that bike, but simplon is not yet on the US market
Bloody fantastic, the future is here… it needs to be much quieter. Part of why I like my Levo is the lack of noise.
It's revolution for me. 10x time less maintenance on drivetrain. No lubricating, no cleaning, no chain changing. Hope it becomes a mainstream
When rear wheel is lighter, it better sticks to the ground on full suspension bikes. So rider gets more control over bike movement. The only thing we need is some cheaper variation of this system, like Shimano Nexus on gear hub market.
Are all e-bikes this loud? Love the pinion idea
£9499...that's £900 MORE than a Honda CBR650R and it's a fecking pushbike...sorry but these comedy prices just can't be justified.
Sure they can. New tech. What matters is the price three years from now.
Ok.. how much do you waste on vices like alcohol and whatever every year? A dirtbike keeps your ass fat and your heart and lungs weak…a competition dirt bike is tens of thousands more…😂
@@IHatePikeys you do you, as they say. One thing is for sure, they won't be "doing" me! Also, if you're riding a dirt bike with intent it really is a workout!😄👍
@@IHatePikeys motorbikes are a workout too. like anything its what you do with it that makes the difference.
@@IHatePikeys spot the guy who's never been on a motorbike
Love the concept, but damn that sounds like an ebike circa 2015
Personally I would love an integrated gearbox motor for the ease of maintaining it, no chain, cassette, derailleur to clean and lube after every ride not worrying about doing hundreds of pound of damage to the derailleur if I come off but my only worry is the initial purchase price.
Seemd noisy to me but I really like the gearbox/belt drive. Got to be better than cassette & chain, which maybe most efficient but exposed and open to damage. And hey, the motor makes up for any minor inefficiencies. Yearly oil change not a problem but what else is the home mechanic allowed to with rgard to repare after warranty. Bosch etc make it very difficult.
So good to see the gearbox a reality. Now all we need is the manufacturers to cut the batteries in half so we can choose to run a half battery with less weight for shorter rides and two halves for longer rides. Combine this with a gearbox and I'm sold. (fight me in the coments)
Or, none!
Exactly this they're missing a trik not making the batterys stackable
How much... bike looks amazing it's what iv been waiting for
£9k I just goggled it 😂