The future of gearboxes is looking bright! ☀ Which bike brand would you like to see using the new Pinion C1.12i gearbox? I also have a lot more videos on bicycle gearboxes and belt drivetrains for you to watch! 🤌🏻 🧡 5 New Bicycle Gearbox Drivetrains 2023 --- ua-cam.com/video/pyeMBKJLtWI/v-deo.html 🖤 Shimano Alfine internal gear hubs --- ua-cam.com/video/qf9tFJFXV5o/v-deo.html 💜 Enviolo CVT internal gear hubs --- ua-cam.com/video/3jZkTlDfK8E/v-deo.html ❤ Rohloff hub vs Pinion gearbox --- ua-cam.com/video/W_hx4V9mYuw/v-deo.html 💛 Belts are now BETTER than chains --- ua-cam.com/video/PhXTl7gApVA/v-deo.html 💙 Effigear Mimic gearbox --- ua-cam.com/video/F08bDBK7U7A/v-deo.html 💜 Chainless shaft drive bicycles --- ua-cam.com/video/eimLIkJaNFM/v-deo.html 💚 Chainless digital drive bicycles --- ua-cam.com/video/r-Zyp6jX0HM/v-deo.html
They should put some better computer controller to calculate wats and according to it change gears automatically swiftly and smoothly, this is good adjustment for long distance accommodation of ride and reduce needles power impute in trying to get some speed, because slowly changing cadence can do the same with much less power needed, but because windy conditions can occur suddenly controller can feel this change in power and smoothly downshift and then adjust proper proportion between cadence and power, and all this smoothly which enables smooth and consistent pedaling which reduce effort. This would be real game changer.
Since I am disabled I ride a recumbent tadpole style - it would be nice to see something come out with this since derailleurs are the #2 thing I smash after idler pulleys. It gets expensive fast.
Its a killer product if you look at it from a long time investment thing. Costs more but will not need any more chains, cassettes, and derailleurs when broken or worn
@@TheSoppakulhofor most peoples a standard transmission is perfectly fine and needs zero maintainance. After 30 years mostly in the garage and few thousand kilometres they throw the whole bike because everything start to fall apart: brakes, shifting, noisy and skipping chain, saddle... This is the life of probably 90% of the bikes. Moreover, most of the bikes people use cost about 1/10 of this transmission. So this transmission is for a very small niche and will remain so unless its cost is devided by about 100, which I think will never happen.
The fact that this thing works well with drops too is _really_ good. Now we just need to wait for more manufacturers to use it. I'd buy a decent touring bike with drops with this and a belt, although I would like it to be more like £3000 than £5000 which what I found with a VSK bike (and they don't do drops).
I love the idea of new technologies and innovations. . However as much as I would love to have a pinion equipped bike it costs more than my last 2 bikes cost together and now has electronics and a battery! Im not a complete retrogrouch but this is a step in the wrong direction for me. I love bicycles for their simplicity. I don't want something else to charge.
Should be easy for Pinion to engineer a little dynamo inside the gearbox unit that charge the electric shifting mechanism. Or better yet, connect it to a USB outlet to charge lights and GPS tracker. Yes, it would decrease the efficiency of an already innefficient drivetrain system. I think that is a compromise that some people are willing to take.
Pinion seems to be an excellent choice for many riders, but prices need to come down as production numbers go up. They need more competition. As always, your presentation is stellar 🌟.
It’s hard for niche products like this to compete on price against a widespread and mature tech like derailleurs. It would probably take a very large manufacturer (read: only Shimano or SRAM) making a huge bet on it and essentially subsidizing it to grab market share, except it would be at the expense of cannibalizing their own sales.
I need i friend from Europe to buy me a pinion gearbox. I am from Russia. I talked to a russian bike conpany "rapid" manufacturing bike from titan, and they said that pinions no longer imported due to sanctions. They said i need friends in Europe to buy pinion. Sad, but i don't have any friends in Europe .
Except... you cant use 'Brand X' gearbox on 'Brand Y' frame like you can with the nearly 99% universal fit derailleur. That is why this, while probably a better technology, will never really catch on and replace the derailleur. Never mind cost. I think the recent 'marketing push' of the pinion gearbox is interesting too.
The only hope is the bike industry settling on a universal standard for ebike motors and Pinion making gearboxes compatible with this, followed by bike companies making light frames with the same mount when they realise there are no extra tooling costs since it's already been paid for by the e-bike investment.
Re the SCRAM Pinion, at EU5099, the pinion is LOOOOOOONG way from "killing" derailleur tech. The other 3 flatbar bikes are all equally expensive. Nice to dream, but my tourer/commuter cost me AU$550 plus about AU250 worth of self installed upgrades. It's 8 years old and only just feels like it could use a new ring, chain and cassette. It's done Melbourne to Sydney, Melbourne half way to Adelaide and the sort of commuting around Melbourne, even most serious cyclists tend to give most of to the car. (I don't drive. At all.) The Pinion system needs to come down to Shimano or even MicroSHIFT prices and get some sort of general compatibility with British bottom bracket frames before it will "kill" derailleurs. Like I say, nice to dream, but mere mortals are "stuck" with Tulio's brilliance for a while yet. Besides, I love servicing my own bike - can't do that anywhere near as easily with a gearbox bike.
@@spdcrzy I honestly don't know what serious service you need for deraileur. I commute 250Km a week. All I have to do is re-lube the chain once a week. That two minute job. Once a month I spend 30 min cleaning the bike, check tire pressure and brakes. Yearly expenses for tire, brake wear, chain, cassette, cables, etc is €150. That is €150 for 10,000Km. I own this bike since 2009. Still using the same original rear deraileur and shifter. Even with Pinion gear box, you still have the same cost of tire and brake wear and service. Sure you can say I have a full time job and three kids. 2 minutes a week is way too much to spend on lubing a chain. Or I'm a high paying lawyer making €1000 an hour. Spending 2 minutes to work on the bike is not worth it.
@@spektrumB Agreed. Folks trying to hype up gearboxes tend to exaggerate the maintenance needed to keep a chain and derailleur in working order. For most people, it's minimal.
Good on pinion for their innovation! Would be nice if they stepped up on their website and listed current manufacturers c/w bike style eg hard tail , xc , gravel etc
Sure. As a lifelong nerd and cyclist, why not? But for me, the gearbox killers are cost and efficiency: they are much more expensive than derailleurs, and not nearly as mechanically efficient. And any halfway smart cyclist doesn't need to shift under load. Great for those who need it, I don't.
Makes sense for slow speed long distance touring and heavier MTBs and possibly E city bikes. Hopeless for road and gravel though - low efficiency, extremely low top gear, no power meter unless you run PM pedals, no oval rings if you prefer them.
If the bike needs electronics for its core functionality, it's instantly disqualified. So the TL:DW summary is: nothing changed, you still have to use the grip shifter.
Disqualified from what? Electronic shifting is reliably used on numerous other types of bikes at all riding levels. You may not like it, but that’s your opinion.
@@LifeCycle1978 Problem is that it can't be connected to the bikes onboard generator. Now you need to take care of an extra battery. If I'd want to do this, I would ride my e-scooter.
Why can't Pinion make a hydraulically actuated gear shifter? The main disadvantage of electronic shifting is that you need a battery. You're screwed if you forget to charge your battery (SRAM Eagle AXS I'm looking at you). Then you will have the world's most expensive single speed bicycle. Of course the problem goes away if you have a dynamo hub on your bicycle.
You can also charge the Pinion battery with a small battery pack, which you could keep in the car or garage. If you're travelling, you probably already have one for your phone.
The main disadvantage of these new-fangled automobiles is the fuel tank. If you forget to put gas in it, you're screwed. The main disadvantage to these new-fangled cellular phones is they have a battery. If you forget to charge them, you're screwed. I'm real tired of the charging argument when it comes to electronic shifting. The dead battery fault lies with the user, not the system.
@@mtbikesam68without having tried any electronic shifter, may I provide a counter point: Phone batteries (all batteries) are notorious for losing maximum capacity over time. While I have accepted that I buy a new phone every three years or so (not necessarily due to the battery), I'm not sure if I would feel the same way about expensive bike parts. And if I happen to leave the bike in a shed through winter, or a whole year, will the battery drain over time, and I have to charge it before using the bike? And what about temperatures? Most electronic components struggle in the coldest winters or hottest summers. I'd prefer if my gearbox doesn't explode or lock up.
@@thorbear all in good fun. I have always enjoyed the tech side of the bike world, but I also have bikes with cables and rim brakes. Some cyclist luddites would scoff at a gearbox at all, claiming one gear is all you need! It's all good. I have had wireless electronic shifting on my mountain bike for almost three years now and have never had a single problem. I keep an extra battery, always stay on top of charging them and I bring the extra with me when I ride. I absolutely love riding my bike, so I have adapted myself to the needs of the electronic system. To each his own! Cheers.
As I have understood electronic shifting is mandatory for the shifting. I would be a bit hesistant to rely on electronic shifting on tours in remote places. What's your take in it Allee?
One thing not mentioned is that once you've cashed out for a Pinion bike, having multiple front AND rear wheels is a minor extra cost, and switching between them is a 2 minute job. Useful for summer and winter wheelsets, or offroad and road ones. I'd be doing this if I ever got such a bike.
If running tubes, and expect few yearly wheel swaps, changing tires is smarter. A few minutes more, but no big deal. It's a good chance for maintenance. Now for trail vs road use, I see your point. Not much different than a derailleur bike though, since belt sprockets aren't cheap.
@@seitenryu6844 Yes, but belt sprockets are far cheaper than a decent IHG, which is the only alternative in my case. Swapping tyres is a much bigger hassle than just swapping wheels - how much depends on particular tyre/rim combos, but it's far more work. When spring arrives in february, but winter suddenly returns in march - with tyre swaps, I'd generally wait until april, to make sure I only do two swaps per year. With wheelsets, I'd swap more often, and get a safer and more comfortable ride, and maybe some cost saving eventually on less wear of the expensive studded winter tyres. To each their etc...
It's FREAKIN LOUD it is! Everyone who brags about this system fails to mention this. You can hear it coming from 5 miles away! No way it takes over the industry.
I think there are good and bad implementations of electronics, especially on bikes. For derailleur gears I feel like it's a lot of complication and expense for not much gain. In this situation, where the electronics are used to do something a cable can't (time the shifts for the appropriate part of the pedal stroke) it starts to make sense.
I've been on pinion since 2011. Owned/rode their 18/12 gboxes for years. Recently went back to Sram Eagle. Why? Pinion is great if you dont want to do any maintenance on your drive train. Is it worth the extra weight? No.
i totally get why some people like the electronic trigger shifing and it def has some advantages and its right to exist, but i would have loved to see a mechanichal trigger option with a no battery in the system, please do it denkendorf
That wouldn't help, the trigger doesn't consume the battery, it's the sensors in the system itself. As long as these aren't e-bikes it would still need an external charge
There is a company that has developed triggers for Pinion mechanical gearboxes, but they are exclusive to their bikes. So it's obviously possible, and I don't understand why Pinion insists on sticking with grip shifters.
Those TRP shifters look so nice, and the Pilot is a sweet looking ride. I have a Priority 600HXT on order. The electronic shifting and thumb shifter tipped the balance for me. I think Priority has done an excellent job of speccing this bike and making it relatively affordable. The next few years should see a good number of manufacturers adopting gear boxes with these new innovations and I'm sure more on the way. I briefly had a Priority 600X and did not like the twist shift and the super short reach geometry felt weird. I'm hoping the 600HXT is comfortable for long days of pedaling so I can use it double duty as a shredder and a bikepacking bike.
@@srileo We'll see. I'm somewhat familiar with the geometry as Ive had full suspension bikes with similar numbers and it is great for long days riding trails. I'm not sure how it will feel for long days, say 6 hours of rough but non technical riding. I'd like to do the 1000km bikepacking loop in Kenya and I think with the right cockpit setup it'll be sweet.
Gearboxes are way more expensive and considerably less energy efficient than traditional chain systems. May be a solution for someone who is maintenance averse, never learned to shift properly and is riding short distances in flat areas like cities or maybe doing slow long distance tours with luggage where dirt and maintenance are problematic.
Bottcher with Shimano XT is 2300 euros with Pinion is 6000 which is complete stupidity no matter how good Pinion is,even if lasting over 100K you never get money back,not even close it is already decade and still almost no one uses it because it is just too expensive and really,talking about how much racing group deraileur and cassete costs is not fair,you could simply use A LOT cheaper and same quality just heavier components you could buy whole 10 speed cassette for price of single Pinion cog there are very very few bike travellers using pinion unless it was sponsor bike
Great video, Alee. I got a regular c1.12 and am building a frame for it, gates, onyx. Will the new C1.12 e-shifter version fit the same metal cabinet used to house the box in the frame? My plan for now is to use twist shifter on a 22.2 bar end mount placed at the tops of my dropbar, or fit it on 22.2 aero bars. But if I later upgraded to the e-shift pinion, that would be a huge improvement with a trigger shift rig.
As far as I know the mount of a C1.12 and a C1.12i are the same, so you could swap them out. However the box internals are very different, so you need to do a full box swap. (I'm in the same position for my Nicolai GAM, but I might just order a new frame around that new box.) An Onyx hub in combination with Pinion is a great combo btw, it is the least amount of non engagement you can get. :) (The pinion can have, at times, a reasonable large engagement gap, so you can use all the help there.) :) Another plus is that this will be a total silent ride. :) Enjoy!
It will never be the same as the pinnion...I got two touring bike with Rholoff Speedhubs and a bike with the Shimano equivalent....the Shimano is a shadow of of the Roholoff...same will be here....
@@truth-Hurts375 Thats like saying bmw 325i is shadow of bugatti veyron. Shimano alfine is 150€ Rohloff is 1160€. With almost 10x price I would hope it is almost 10x better. Shimano sells millions of hubs, Rohloff sells like 100 a year
Amazing content, again! If I did more loaded touring per year, a gravel bike with this system would be a no brainer for me. Spare belt though, never want to see a group split up again because of a broken belt with no replacement around.
Thank you so much to bring this great development on the table. I was always interested in a bike with pinion gearbox, now this is for me the point where i cant really resist. Absolutely stocked by the new shifting options. Just waiting for an good eMTB with Pionion gearbox 😊 Thank you once again for ypur video, love it ❤
@Cyclingabout Alee, could you provide the names for the Korean gearbox and the two systems shown briefly at 9:42 and 9:47? Thanks a lot! Great video :)
Will be really interesting if one of these gets put on a gravel racer... the number of drivetrain issues that knocked elite racers out of Unbound was shocking.
The combination of electronic shifting and gearboxes is for sure the future of at least most of the ebikes. I would have expected this kind of products to be compatible with shimano or sram wireless shifters btw.
Hi Alee - would you say the new Pinon would be a better alternative to a Rohloff/Gates combo when looking to build a world touring bike today? Is there any improvement in resistance, and wouldn't electronic shifting just add another point of failure when on the road? Thanks
There are pros and cons to both so it really depends on what you value most from your drivetrain (I made a Rohloff/Pinion comparison video a few years back). The 2024 update probably benefits mountain bikes and gravel bike the most, but I would personally have no qualms travelling with electronic shifting. That said, the prudent thing to do would be to wait a few years to see if any durability issues arise with the electronic components.
I have had a Pinion gearbox on my recumbent trike for over three years now. It's been very reliably and I have made full use of the 12-speed...an electronic shifting option would be even better, IMO.
again, i thank the early adopters for making this tech for me and my fellow poor mortals to at least be able to afford them used in a few years (decade), i just want more frame manufacturers make a gearbox compatible bikes
Grip shifters are/were awful. I had one in the early MTB days with a SRAM shifter. Still not for me. But looks promising with electronic shifters. And having more options is always good. And thank you for making this video. Nice to see content from you, again. An updated video about flat bar gravel bikes would be nice 🙂
Outstanding video!! Surprised Priority is one who had progressed and at the same time elated that a Korean pinion bicycle is on its way. Many options and loving them all! Thank you to the bearer of good news Mr. Durham.
Would love to see a tandem with this gearbox. There is a company that offers them already, however, for an unknown (at least to me) reason their implementation requires three belts.
I'm trying to work out how it could use 3 belts - unless it was a 3 seater or the gearbox was mounted separate to both riders' cranks for no reason i can think of...
@@peglor assuming this is about the co-motion pinions, weird layout either because the pinion's design prohibits having both cranks and 2 belts attached to gearbox because its not meant for tandems so they have to treat it the same way as gearing on trikes or because they wanted the gearbox in the middle for weight distribution
@@dodecahedron1 Definitely a few good possibilities there alright. I'd be very surprised if there was no way to attach a sprocket to the left crank for the synch chain though. Usually just using a RH crank and helicoiling the pedal thread to change it to a left hand thread so the pedal won't work loose all the time does the job, but the RH crank on a Pinion gearbox doesn't have a sprocket at all, so this isn't an option, so it's down to the BB axle interface.
5 місяців тому+1
It's not. 😅 Way too expensive, and less efficient. Chain + derailleurs are still the most efficient way to transfer energy.
@@joebobby1184 "a 2x12 is more efficient in the middle of its range" You literally just admitted it's more efficient and are still spreading misinformation that its a myth... Lol "it's no more expensive then di2, etap or super record" Another total misleading joke of a comment, comparing it to the highest end electronic components, too funny... Lol
The problem with pinion is mostly it's WEIGHT. When it comes to switching gears mechanical is the most reliable followed by hydraulic and in last place is electric or electronic which can have the most issues because of its complexity.
My Priority 600X with the grip shift Pinion was stolen about a month ago. My insurance company covered the loss and I'm replacing it with the 600HXT with the electronic shifting. I'll let you know what I think. Looking forward to more news from your bikepacking in Africa! All the best to you and Laura, Ron
Killer gearboxes: - don't use batteries (they will not discharge when you want them and you will not be able to charge anytime they discharge) - don't have firmware. Anything that has, is prone to bugs and can be used as gateway to subscription model. - have spare parts available and can be repaired at home (see Right To Repair movement + Louis Rossmann) As you said: price is high becuase quality is high. We know what happens when price goes down. We should learn from the history of the car in order to avoid the same crap happening to bikes.
They REALLY, REALLY, need to Intergate a micro motor to charge the batteries internally, that will be the "end game" gearbox for me. With ALL that movements, I don't see how hard it can be with some micro gears inside to do the charging while you are paddling.
@@Coerced drag is irrelevant. Just connect it to the bike's generator. I wouldn't buy gadgets that are necessary for a bike's operation that absolutely need an extra battery to take care of. That is just ridiculous. Wouldn't do this on my car, motorcycle, e-scooter or boat either.
Converted my Moser 1985 steel frame road bike from Campag racing triple to Shimano Alfine 11 speed gear hub with Di2 drop bar shifters, will never go back to derailleurs. The transmission is silent with no freewheel noise and a delight to ride.
I'm excited for this, but a bit disappointed they couldn't accomplish some of this with analog techniques. I have a C1.12 on my cargo bike with a belt and I basically do nothing to it except brake adjustments. The off chance that the battery is dead leaves me reluctant to consider this.
I will never buy an electric shifter unless it is on an e-bike. I agree that it is unwise to shift a gearbox under load but this is also true for delirious.
@@Cyclingabout That's basically the same company, and the cars are just not good. But it's not at all the same tech and I trust you as an authority on the field. Still too expensive, you (and Ryan) convinced me of the belt, but it'll be an Alfine. Thanks for your quality content and the bike buyer's guide!
Anyone remember the GT IT-1 from late 2005/early 2006 ? I got to demo one at a race in Fontana, CA. and loved it ! 8 speed gearbox with twist shifter - always wondered why it never took off - great to see dialed gearbox bikes finally getting to market … awesome ! 🍻
Why is Shimano the leading manufacturer of bicycle components? Because these products are of very good quality and longevity. The price-performance ratio is outstanding and German manufacturers can not keep up with Japanese products.
I finally got to try out Pinion on an eBike and I was not impressed. So for paying over 7k I get a system that will send a noticeable "clunk" through my legs everytime it shifts gears under load? Yeah, no, pass... I'll be going with an Owuru CVT on my next bike, now THAT is a smooth experience. And to top it off, you can get the whole bike just for the price of the Pinion system.
Anything that has a battery in it is bullshit for manual bikes This is not fucking e-bike, i want it to be able to shift gears as long as i want without thinking about a stupid battery just running out and making me unable to shift gears Mechanical bike must be fully mechanical, there can be no compromises This is just another Cybertruck
Incredible upgrade for Regular short distance cyclists, but its hard for long distance tourers like us... Any idea on whether it can be implemented in P.18 line for long distance Bike touring?
Carpal Tunnel injured wrists can't use Gripshifters either because it basically is too painful! Does any one know of any velomobiles that use the Pinion Gearbox?
Great commentary, again, Alee. Agreed that more folks will feel comfortable with the new changes, but seriously, shifting on the current models and with a grip shifter has been absolutely no problem for me the past couple of years.
It's hard for new technologies to get adopted. If no one uses the drivetrain, bike shops won't have parts. But if bike shops don't have part, many won't buy the drivetrain.
@@alexus6237 The problem with these new technologies is no standardisation every brand has it’s own interpretation of these kond of drivetrains and cycleshops can not be asked to supply every brand or type..
Lectric eBikes just came out with their Lectric ONE that has one of these standard, along with belt drive. It's the C1.6i. Whole bike costs $1999 or $2199 (long range).
I've got the priority HTX600 as featured in the video. I like the gearbox, but you guys didn't address my biggest issue with it, which is the slow engagement due to the ratchet mechanism in the gearbox. If they were to replace that with something smooth an instant like Shimano had done with their e bike motors, there would be no drawbacks to the new system.
All those chain built gearboxes are crap, end of discusion. For you who doesnt know Allen Milliard. Search for his channel here on YT. 20 years ago he built a downhill bike for his son. He is a motorcycle engineer who just saw all bicycles as trash, regarding the price. I still agree with him on that. A high end MTB costs more than most of the motorcycles you see on a daily basis. And for sure more than most mx/enduro motorcycles 😳.
once gearbox drivetrains sprout a standardized power-point, so a separate combo battery/motor (think of the removable fauza motor battery on a Trek e-caliber bike) can interface with the gearbox, we'll see the final distillation of merging acoustic bikes to electric bikes. All you'd need to do to make your gearbox bike an ebike, is to add a motor/battery power unit and you have an instant ebike, which is a 30 second conversion (pop a panel, and plop one in)....we're so close.
So actually this transmission competes with good electric bikes for this price. So the question - do you need to spend such a lot of money to get small increase in comfort, but small decrease in efficiency? Or spend same amount to get much more comfort and improve efficiency of your pedalling?
The future of gearboxes is looking bright! ☀ Which bike brand would you like to see using the new Pinion C1.12i gearbox?
I also have a lot more videos on bicycle gearboxes and belt drivetrains for you to watch! 🤌🏻
🧡 5 New Bicycle Gearbox Drivetrains 2023 --- ua-cam.com/video/pyeMBKJLtWI/v-deo.html
🖤 Shimano Alfine internal gear hubs --- ua-cam.com/video/qf9tFJFXV5o/v-deo.html
💜 Enviolo CVT internal gear hubs --- ua-cam.com/video/3jZkTlDfK8E/v-deo.html
❤ Rohloff hub vs Pinion gearbox --- ua-cam.com/video/W_hx4V9mYuw/v-deo.html
💛 Belts are now BETTER than chains --- ua-cam.com/video/PhXTl7gApVA/v-deo.html
💙 Effigear Mimic gearbox --- ua-cam.com/video/F08bDBK7U7A/v-deo.html
💜 Chainless shaft drive bicycles --- ua-cam.com/video/eimLIkJaNFM/v-deo.html
💚 Chainless digital drive bicycles --- ua-cam.com/video/r-Zyp6jX0HM/v-deo.html
REEB steel enduro with a Pinion looks good.
They should put some better computer controller to calculate wats and according to it change gears automatically swiftly and smoothly, this is good adjustment for long distance accommodation of ride and reduce needles power impute in trying to get some speed, because slowly changing cadence can do the same with much less power needed, but because windy conditions can occur suddenly controller can feel this change in power and smoothly downshift and then adjust proper proportion between cadence and power, and all this smoothly which enables smooth and consistent pedaling which reduce effort. This would be real game changer.
Tout Terrain!
Priority already did it, as usual.
Since I am disabled I ride a recumbent tadpole style - it would be nice to see something come out with this since derailleurs are the #2 thing I smash after idler pulleys. It gets expensive fast.
To be a "killer" of a product it needs to be in the same price bracket as that product, and it is not even in the same solar system price wise.
wise man!
lets hope they mass produces and seel it to biggest bikes brand so the price go down
Its a killer product if you look at it from a long time investment thing. Costs more but will not need any more chains, cassettes, and derailleurs when broken or worn
Only a €90 belt and €180 sprockets. Granted, after 30k KM, but still needs to be in the equation@@TheSoppakulho
@@Erdnav27 True. Gearbox is not for all riders but Im very much attracted to the maintenance free usage!
@@TheSoppakulhofor most peoples a standard transmission is perfectly fine and needs zero maintainance. After 30 years mostly in the garage and few thousand kilometres they throw the whole bike because everything start to fall apart: brakes, shifting, noisy and skipping chain, saddle... This is the life of probably 90% of the bikes. Moreover, most of the bikes people use cost about 1/10 of this transmission. So this transmission is for a very small niche and will remain so unless its cost is devided by about 100, which I think will never happen.
The fact that this thing works well with drops too is _really_ good. Now we just need to wait for more manufacturers to use it. I'd buy a decent touring bike with drops with this and a belt, although I would like it to be more like £3000 than £5000 which what I found with a VSK bike (and they don't do drops).
BLE, firmware updates... for a shifter. Ok, you lost me there
Nice, but as with all gearboxes cost more then a new kidney! :P Prices overall need to come down on all gearboxes.
The pinion costs more than an entire brand new Honda motorcycle
@janeblogs324 I was looking at a new Specialized Stumpjumper EVO Pro and this bike is selling for 13k now.
I have a 2022 and thought 8k was steep.
They are cheaper than the latest Shimano or SRAM group sets though.
Are they cheaper than than 2x cassettes an new chain and derailleur every year though?
A Shimano Nexus or Alfine doesn't cost all that much. There are also offerings from NuVinci and others.
I love the idea of new technologies and innovations. . However as much as I would love to have a pinion equipped bike it costs more than my last 2 bikes cost together and now has electronics and a battery! Im not a complete retrogrouch but this is a step in the wrong direction for me. I love bicycles for their simplicity. I don't want something else to charge.
Should be easy for Pinion to engineer a little dynamo inside the gearbox unit that charge the electric shifting mechanism. Or better yet, connect it to a USB outlet to charge lights and GPS tracker. Yes, it would decrease the efficiency of an already innefficient drivetrain system. I think that is a compromise that some people are willing to take.
I have to agree, if it’s better mechanically, keep it mechanical, don’t try to make it “even better”
There are/were mechanical versions before the electronic shifting one. And brifters are available.
Pinion seems to be an excellent choice for many riders, but prices need to come down as production numbers go up. They need more competition.
As always, your presentation is stellar 🌟.
It’s hard for niche products like this to compete on price against a widespread and mature tech like derailleurs. It would probably take a very large manufacturer (read: only Shimano or SRAM) making a huge bet on it and essentially subsidizing it to grab market share, except it would be at the expense of cannibalizing their own sales.
I need i friend from Europe to buy me a pinion gearbox. I am from Russia. I talked to a russian bike conpany "rapid" manufacturing bike from titan, and they said that pinions no longer imported due to sanctions. They said i need friends in Europe to buy pinion. Sad, but i don't have any friends in Europe .
blame putin.@@mesnyankin89
Except... you cant use 'Brand X' gearbox on 'Brand Y' frame like you can with the nearly 99% universal fit derailleur.
That is why this, while probably a better technology, will never really catch on and replace the derailleur.
Never mind cost. I think the recent 'marketing push' of the pinion gearbox is interesting too.
The only hope is the bike industry settling on a universal standard for ebike motors and Pinion making gearboxes compatible with this, followed by bike companies making light frames with the same mount when they realise there are no extra tooling costs since it's already been paid for by the e-bike investment.
It's also less efficient than a derailleur.
Re the SCRAM Pinion, at EU5099, the pinion is LOOOOOOONG way from "killing" derailleur tech. The other 3 flatbar bikes are all equally expensive. Nice to dream, but my tourer/commuter cost me AU$550 plus about AU250 worth of self installed upgrades. It's 8 years old and only just feels like it could use a new ring, chain and cassette. It's done Melbourne to Sydney, Melbourne half way to Adelaide and the sort of commuting around Melbourne, even most serious cyclists tend to give most of to the car. (I don't drive. At all.) The Pinion system needs to come down to Shimano or even MicroSHIFT prices and get some sort of general compatibility with British bottom bracket frames before it will "kill" derailleurs. Like I say, nice to dream, but mere mortals are "stuck" with Tulio's brilliance for a while yet. Besides, I love servicing my own bike - can't do that anywhere near as easily with a gearbox bike.
Pinion gearboxes with a Gates Carbon belt drive system are essentially service-free.
@@spdcrzy The bike as a whole isn't service free. You still need to periodically check and adjust the tire pressure and brake.
@@spektrumB but compared to everything else? That's nothing. That's regular maintenance, not service. There's a difference.
@@spdcrzy I honestly don't know what serious service you need for deraileur. I commute 250Km a week. All I have to do is re-lube the chain once a week. That two minute job. Once a month I spend 30 min cleaning the bike, check tire pressure and brakes. Yearly expenses for tire, brake wear, chain, cassette, cables, etc is €150. That is €150 for 10,000Km. I own this bike since 2009. Still using the same original rear deraileur and shifter. Even with Pinion gear box, you still have the same cost of tire and brake wear and service.
Sure you can say I have a full time job and three kids. 2 minutes a week is way too much to spend on lubing a chain. Or I'm a high paying lawyer making €1000 an hour. Spending 2 minutes to work on the bike is not worth it.
@@spektrumB Agreed. Folks trying to hype up gearboxes tend to exaggerate the maintenance needed to keep a chain and derailleur in working order. For most people, it's minimal.
Good on pinion for their innovation! Would be nice if they stepped up on their website and listed current manufacturers c/w bike style eg hard tail , xc , gravel etc
Sure. As a lifelong nerd and cyclist, why not? But for me, the gearbox killers are cost and efficiency: they are much more expensive than derailleurs, and not nearly as mechanically efficient. And any halfway smart cyclist doesn't need to shift under load. Great for those who need it, I don't.
100% these were the TWO big factors that prevented me from going Pinion. As of now, I'm in!
If you have good writing, there's no need to run muzak in the background.
Makes sense for slow speed long distance touring and heavier MTBs and possibly E city bikes. Hopeless for road and gravel though - low efficiency, extremely low top gear, no power meter unless you run PM pedals, no oval rings if you prefer them.
If the bike needs electronics for its core functionality, it's instantly disqualified. So the TL:DW summary is: nothing changed, you still have to use the grip shifter.
Disqualified from what? Electronic shifting is reliably used on numerous other types of bikes at all riding levels. You may not like it, but that’s your opinion.
I'm also not interested. But it's most likely the future.
@@LifeCycle1978 Problem is that it can't be connected to the bikes onboard generator.
Now you need to take care of an extra battery. If I'd want to do this, I would ride my e-scooter.
Why can't Pinion make a hydraulically actuated gear shifter? The main disadvantage of electronic shifting is that you need a battery. You're screwed if you forget to charge your battery (SRAM Eagle AXS I'm looking at you). Then you will have the world's most expensive single speed bicycle. Of course the problem goes away if you have a dynamo hub on your bicycle.
You can also charge the Pinion battery with a small battery pack, which you could keep in the car or garage. If you're travelling, you probably already have one for your phone.
The main disadvantage of these new-fangled automobiles is the fuel tank. If you forget to put gas in it, you're screwed. The main disadvantage to these new-fangled cellular phones is they have a battery. If you forget to charge them, you're screwed. I'm real tired of the charging argument when it comes to electronic shifting. The dead battery fault lies with the user, not the system.
@@mtbikesam68without having tried any electronic shifter, may I provide a counter point:
Phone batteries (all batteries) are notorious for losing maximum capacity over time. While I have accepted that I buy a new phone every three years or so (not necessarily due to the battery), I'm not sure if I would feel the same way about expensive bike parts. And if I happen to leave the bike in a shed through winter, or a whole year, will the battery drain over time, and I have to charge it before using the bike? And what about temperatures? Most electronic components struggle in the coldest winters or hottest summers. I'd prefer if my gearbox doesn't explode or lock up.
@@thorbear how many shifts per charge was it again?
@@thorbear all in good fun. I have always enjoyed the tech side of the bike world, but I also have bikes with cables and rim brakes. Some cyclist luddites would scoff at a gearbox at all, claiming one gear is all you need! It's all good. I have had wireless electronic shifting on my mountain bike for almost three years now and have never had a single problem. I keep an extra battery, always stay on top of charging them and I bring the extra with me when I ride. I absolutely love riding my bike, so I have adapted myself to the needs of the electronic system. To each his own! Cheers.
As I have understood electronic shifting is mandatory for the shifting. I would be a bit hesistant to rely on electronic shifting on tours in remote places. What's your take in it Allee?
This is my biggest issue. I want reliability and lack of maintenance above all else, so electronic components feels bad
Can I get a Witness?..... of those who think cycling and electronics just don't mix?
One thing not mentioned is that once you've cashed out for a Pinion bike, having multiple front AND rear wheels is a minor extra cost, and switching between them is a 2 minute job. Useful for summer and winter wheelsets, or offroad and road ones. I'd be doing this if I ever got such a bike.
Me, as a full-year cyclist, pinion is a blessing. Maintenance free is such a time/cost saver, it's just unbelievable!!!
If running tubes, and expect few yearly wheel swaps, changing tires is smarter. A few minutes more, but no big deal. It's a good chance for maintenance. Now for trail vs road use, I see your point. Not much different than a derailleur bike though, since belt sprockets aren't cheap.
@@seitenryu6844 Yes, but belt sprockets are far cheaper than a decent IHG, which is the only alternative in my case. Swapping tyres is a much bigger hassle than just swapping wheels - how much depends on particular tyre/rim combos, but it's far more work. When spring arrives in february, but winter suddenly returns in march - with tyre swaps, I'd generally wait until april, to make sure I only do two swaps per year. With wheelsets, I'd swap more often, and get a safer and more comfortable ride, and maybe some cost saving eventually on less wear of the expensive studded winter tyres. To each their etc...
@@tvuser9529 You can order a built nexus 8 wheel for under 150 USD. A single gates cog is 100 USD.
It's FREAKIN LOUD it is! Everyone who brags about this system fails to mention this. You can hear it coming from 5 miles away! No way it takes over the industry.
Interesting development, I really like hub and gearbox derailleurs, but I'm still not buying into any form of electronic assistance to shifitng.
I think there are good and bad implementations of electronics, especially on bikes.
For derailleur gears I feel like it's a lot of complication and expense for not much gain.
In this situation, where the electronics are used to do something a cable can't (time the shifts for the appropriate part of the pedal stroke) it starts to make sense.
Electronic shifting now fully removes this option for me.
what's the efficiency compared to a clean derailleur/chain system?
An excellent video and explanation, Alee! I’m excited to test that electronic shifting at some point in the future. Loving my C1.12 so much!
I've been on pinion since 2011. Owned/rode their 18/12 gboxes for years. Recently went back to Sram Eagle. Why? Pinion is great if you dont want to do any maintenance on your drive train. Is it worth the extra weight? No.
i totally get why some people like the electronic trigger shifing and it def has some advantages and its right to exist, but i would have loved to see a mechanichal trigger option with a no battery in the system, please do it denkendorf
That wouldn't help, the trigger doesn't consume the battery, it's the sensors in the system itself. As long as these aren't e-bikes it would still need an external charge
There is a company that has developed triggers for Pinion mechanical gearboxes, but they are exclusive to their bikes. So it's obviously possible, and I don't understand why Pinion insists on sticking with grip shifters.
who are you calling a Denkendorf
@@Nephrak look up the town of the pinion headquaters / manufacturing site
Interesting to hear about competitors! So no patents? This means the space will improve quickly and prices will become a lot more accessible.
Note that only novel mechanisms are patentable, and gearboxes can be effected in different ways.
Those TRP shifters look so nice, and the Pilot is a sweet looking ride. I have a Priority 600HXT on order. The electronic shifting and thumb shifter tipped the balance for me. I think Priority has done an excellent job of speccing this bike and making it relatively affordable. The next few years should see a good number of manufacturers adopting gear boxes with these new innovations and I'm sure more on the way. I briefly had a Priority 600X and did not like the twist shift and the super short reach geometry felt weird. I'm hoping the 600HXT is comfortable for long days of pedaling so I can use it double duty as a shredder and a bikepacking bike.
How do you think the XHT will do on long days in the saddle?
@@srileo We'll see. I'm somewhat familiar with the geometry as Ive had full suspension bikes with similar numbers and it is great for long days riding trails. I'm not sure how it will feel for long days, say 6 hours of rough but non technical riding. I'd like to do the 1000km bikepacking loop in Kenya and I think with the right cockpit setup it'll be sweet.
I just met a guy with a pinion touring Europe . With 3500 km he was starting to have problems
Gearboxes are way more expensive and considerably less energy efficient than traditional chain systems.
May be a solution for someone who is maintenance averse, never learned to shift properly and is riding short distances in flat areas like cities or maybe doing slow long distance tours with luggage where dirt and maintenance are problematic.
Bottcher with Shimano XT is 2300 euros with Pinion is 6000 which is complete stupidity
no matter how good Pinion is,even if lasting over 100K you never get money back,not even close
it is already decade and still almost no one uses it because it is just too expensive
and really,talking about how much racing group deraileur and cassete costs is not fair,you could simply use A LOT cheaper and same quality just heavier components
you could buy whole 10 speed cassette for price of single Pinion cog
there are very very few bike travellers using pinion unless it was sponsor bike
It's a boutique brand for cycling dentists.
@@JohnDir-xw3hf spot on
but if they ever lower price by 50 % i might buy one
Great video, Alee.
I got a regular c1.12 and am building a frame for it, gates, onyx.
Will the new C1.12 e-shifter version fit the same metal cabinet used to house the box in the frame?
My plan for now is to use twist shifter on a 22.2 bar end mount placed at the tops of my dropbar, or fit it on 22.2 aero bars.
But if I later upgraded to the e-shift pinion, that would be a huge improvement with a trigger shift rig.
As far as I know the mount of a C1.12 and a C1.12i are the same, so you could swap them out. However the box internals are very different, so you need to do a full box swap. (I'm in the same position for my Nicolai GAM, but I might just order a new frame around that new box.) An Onyx hub in combination with Pinion is a great combo btw, it is the least amount of non engagement you can get. :) (The pinion can have, at times, a reasonable large engagement gap, so you can use all the help there.) :) Another plus is that this will be a total silent ride. :) Enjoy!
I'm so glad to see you mentioned the Korean startup working on a gearbox. I'm so excited to see progress on that model.
It will never be the same as the pinnion...I got two touring bike with Rholoff Speedhubs and a bike with the Shimano equivalent....the Shimano is a shadow of of the Roholoff...same will be here....
Is another company. Not Shimano
@@truth-Hurts375 Thats like saying bmw 325i is shadow of bugatti veyron. Shimano alfine is 150€ Rohloff is 1160€. With almost 10x price I would hope it is almost 10x better.
Shimano sells millions of hubs, Rohloff sells like 100 a year
Amazing content, again! If I did more loaded touring per year, a gravel bike with this system would be a no brainer for me. Spare belt though, never want to see a group split up again because of a broken belt with no replacement around.
Thank you so much to bring this great development on the table. I was always interested in a bike with pinion gearbox, now this is for me the point where i cant really resist. Absolutely stocked by the new shifting options. Just waiting for an good eMTB with Pionion gearbox 😊 Thank you once again for ypur video, love it ❤
@Cyclingabout
Alee, could you provide the names for the Korean gearbox and the two systems shown briefly at 9:42 and 9:47? Thanks a lot!
Great video :)
I love grip shifters
Will be really interesting if one of these gets put on a gravel racer... the number of drivetrain issues that knocked elite racers out of Unbound was shocking.
The combination of electronic shifting and gearboxes is for sure the future of at least most of the ebikes. I would have expected this kind of products to be compatible with shimano or sram wireless shifters btw.
No it's not. It's unnecessary
Hi Alee - would you say the new Pinon would be a better alternative to a Rohloff/Gates combo when looking to build a world touring bike today? Is there any improvement in resistance, and wouldn't electronic shifting just add another point of failure when on the road? Thanks
There are pros and cons to both so it really depends on what you value most from your drivetrain (I made a Rohloff/Pinion comparison video a few years back). The 2024 update probably benefits mountain bikes and gravel bike the most, but I would personally have no qualms travelling with electronic shifting. That said, the prudent thing to do would be to wait a few years to see if any durability issues arise with the electronic components.
Is a cool piece of tech but obviously way too expensive. And having to charge it kinda defeats a lot of the benefits.
What folding bikes will use the 2024 Pinion Gearbox. Thank you.
I have had a Pinion gearbox on my recumbent trike for over three years now. It's been very reliably and I have made full use of the 12-speed...an electronic shifting option would be even better, IMO.
It is cooler, definitely...
But I still love the simplicity of a normal crank !
again, i thank the early adopters for making this tech for me and my fellow poor mortals to at least be able to afford them used in a few years (decade), i just want more frame manufacturers make a gearbox compatible bikes
Still not sold on electric shifters. I want to keep the amount of things i need to charge as few as possible
I used to ride a bike with a Rohloff hub but got frustrated with the mushy shifting on the grip shifter. So this sounds really cool.
Bummer that's how you experienced it. A good cable setup should get you relatively crisp shifting with a Speed hub. I really liked mine when I had it.
You can get electronic shifting with shifting under load on the Rohloff as well.
Grip shifters are/were awful. I had one in the early MTB days with a SRAM shifter.
Still not for me. But looks promising with electronic shifters. And having more options is always good.
And thank you for making this video. Nice to see content from you, again. An updated video about flat bar gravel bikes would be nice 🙂
Outstanding video!! Surprised Priority is one who had progressed and at the same time elated that a Korean pinion bicycle is on its way. Many options and loving them all! Thank you to the bearer of good news Mr. Durham.
These are currently frame specific, are subject to electronic failure and cost your firstborn. Otherwise they sound great
Yeah, this has ultra endurance racing written all over it. Imagine not having to take anything to repair any part of the drivetrain...
With 7% efficiency loss, I don't see this ever making it to any race.
Very interesting! But "ultra-low maintenance... with a battery that will loose power over time 😞" That is actually what prevents me from buying one 😞
I m mtbiking only in suny days so derailleurs are lighter , simpler to fix … maybe for commuting gear boxes
Other than pilot his there an other company who offers bacpacking frame with the pinion smart chifter ( c1.12.i) with dropbars ?
The Dutch brand Jongerius is also selling a gravel bike with it.
Would love to see a tandem with this gearbox.
There is a company that offers them already, however, for an unknown (at least to me) reason their implementation requires three belts.
I'm trying to work out how it could use 3 belts - unless it was a 3 seater or the gearbox was mounted separate to both riders' cranks for no reason i can think of...
@@peglor Search for Co-Motion's Java, Speedster or Mocha tandems.
@@peglor assuming this is about the co-motion pinions, weird layout either because the pinion's design prohibits having both cranks and 2 belts attached to gearbox because its not meant for tandems so they have to treat it the same way as gearing on trikes or because they wanted the gearbox in the middle for weight distribution
@@dodecahedron1 Definitely a few good possibilities there alright. I'd be very surprised if there was no way to attach a sprocket to the left crank for the synch chain though. Usually just using a RH crank and helicoiling the pedal thread to change it to a left hand thread so the pedal won't work loose all the time does the job, but the RH crank on a Pinion gearbox doesn't have a sprocket at all, so this isn't an option, so it's down to the BB axle interface.
It's not. 😅 Way too expensive, and less efficient. Chain + derailleurs are still the most efficient way to transfer energy.
@@joebobby1184 "a 2x12 is more efficient in the middle of its range"
You literally just admitted it's more efficient and are still spreading misinformation that its a myth... Lol
"it's no more expensive then di2, etap or super record"
Another total misleading joke of a comment, comparing it to the highest end electronic components, too funny... Lol
I hope they also release mechanical gearbox without any battery and flat bar shifter
Great but expensive for the most of us.
I'm not sure if the electronics are the next step of the cycling...
The problem with pinion is mostly it's WEIGHT.
When it comes to switching gears mechanical is the most reliable followed by hydraulic and in last place is electric or electronic which can have the most issues because of its complexity.
A servo motor connected to a digital switch is much less complicated than a late stage Shimano brifter
overpriced and its NOT a Killer of anything, except ones pocket.
It’s a pity pinion or another manufacturer doesn’t come up with a smaller system for the Brompton ,
I thought internal gear hubs like the Sturmey Archer were quite popular on Bromptons.
@@Frostbiker I was really referring to a belt drive system and increased gears rather than the archer three internal and three external.
@@KavanOBriencheck out priority folder. Doesn't fold as nicely as Bromptons but has belt drive and decent IGH.
My Priority 600X with the grip shift Pinion was stolen about a month ago. My insurance company covered the loss and I'm replacing it with the 600HXT with the electronic shifting. I'll let you know what I think. Looking forward to more news from your bikepacking in Africa! All the best to you and Laura, Ron
And
How is it?
Killer gearboxes:
- don't use batteries (they will not discharge when you want them and you will not be able to charge anytime they discharge)
- don't have firmware. Anything that has, is prone to bugs and can be used as gateway to subscription model.
- have spare parts available and can be repaired at home (see Right To Repair movement + Louis Rossmann)
As you said: price is high becuase quality is high. We know what happens when price goes down.
We should learn from the history of the car in order to avoid the same crap happening to bikes.
“Ultra low maintenance” is a big selling point for lazy ol’ me!
For that I have 2 SA XL-FDD dyno drum brake front hubs. First one has 32,000 miles with just a bearing change. Even the cable went 20,000 miles.
why only eletronic shifters for drop bar..
I think a "bike of the future" will be gearbox-shifting, high-pivot-belt-driven, electronically-adjusting-full-suspension e-bike🤷♂️
They REALLY, REALLY, need to Intergate a micro motor to charge the batteries internally, that will be the "end game" gearbox for me. With ALL that movements, I don't see how hard it can be with some micro gears inside to do the charging while you are paddling.
It would add more drag and therefore won't sell as well
@@Coerced drag is irrelevant.
Just connect it to the bike's generator.
I wouldn't buy gadgets that are necessary for a bike's operation that absolutely need an extra battery to take care of. That is just ridiculous. Wouldn't do this on my car, motorcycle, e-scooter or boat either.
Will I be able to fix the electronics when they break in 10 years time?
Short answer…nope
Try and fix that on the roadside.
Will have wait for pricing for he people. In the mean time, derailleur works fine.
Converted my Moser 1985 steel frame road bike from Campag racing triple to Shimano Alfine 11 speed gear hub with Di2 drop bar shifters, will never go back to derailleurs. The transmission is silent with no freewheel noise and a delight to ride.
7:38 you mentioned the Korean startup for this gearbox, mind if you share what your source of that news was?
The All-to UA-cam channel.
great presentation of the new Pinion.
Thanks
Your videos are always well done
Many thanks!
I thought the biggest problems with pinion gearboxes were weight, drag, and cost.
So they can make a decent gearbox but they refuse to give it a mechanical shifter that isn't a grip shifter?
Grip shifters are also extremely dangerous... that's the no1 reason... terrible control of of the bars and prone to terrible crashes.
I'm excited for this, but a bit disappointed they couldn't accomplish some of this with analog techniques. I have a C1.12 on my cargo bike with a belt and I basically do nothing to it except brake adjustments. The off chance that the battery is dead leaves me reluctant to consider this.
I will never buy an electric shifter unless it is on an e-bike. I agree that it is unwise to shift a gearbox under load but this is also true for delirious.
Keep in mind that those gearboxes were invented by Volkswagen engineers, so long term reliability will be atrociously bad.
Porsche engineers, and no, the reliability of Pinion gearboxes over the last decade has been excellent.
@@Cyclingabout That's basically the same company, and the cars are just not good. But it's not at all the same tech and I trust you as an authority on the field.
Still too expensive, you (and Ryan) convinced me of the belt, but it'll be an Alfine.
Thanks for your quality content and the bike buyer's guide!
Anyone remember the GT IT-1 from late 2005/early 2006 ? I got to demo one at a race in Fontana, CA. and loved it ! 8 speed gearbox with twist shifter - always wondered why it never took off - great to see dialed gearbox bikes finally getting to market … awesome ! 🍻
Why is Shimano the leading manufacturer of bicycle components? Because these products are of very good quality and longevity. The price-performance ratio is outstanding and German manufacturers can not keep up with Japanese products.
I finally got to try out Pinion on an eBike and I was not impressed.
So for paying over 7k I get a system that will send a noticeable "clunk" through my legs everytime it shifts gears under load? Yeah, no, pass...
I'll be going with an Owuru CVT on my next bike, now THAT is a smooth experience. And to top it off, you can get the whole bike just for the price of the Pinion system.
Can anything work without an app?
You have to praise the engineers to create a gear box in such a small size and light weight. Incredible.
Anything that has a battery in it is bullshit for manual bikes
This is not fucking e-bike, i want it to be able to shift gears as long as i want without thinking about a stupid battery just running out and making me unable to shift gears
Mechanical bike must be fully mechanical, there can be no compromises
This is just another Cybertruck
Oh I know how they will stay competitive, Shimano hub is 150€, Pinion gearbox is 1400€
1400€ is more than 95% spend on the bike.
You're telling me this $3000 drivetrain is going to kill off my $150 drivetrain? I'm skeptical.
most of the "riders" are too wimpy to hit a deerrailer on a stump so dont invent for a non exiastNT ISSUE THAT WAS MY GEN. 20 YRS AGO WE RODE HARD
Incredible upgrade for Regular short distance cyclists, but its hard for long distance tourers like us...
Any idea on whether it can be implemented in P.18 line for long distance Bike touring?
Carpal Tunnel injured wrists can't use Gripshifters either because it basically is too painful! Does any one know of any velomobiles that use the Pinion Gearbox?
Great commentary, again, Alee. Agreed that more folks will feel comfortable with the new changes, but seriously, shifting on the current models and with a grip shifter has been absolutely no problem for me the past couple of years.
Eh yeah widespread adoption isn’t going to happen if you can’t get parts at the bike store around the corner…
It's hard for new technologies to get adopted. If no one uses the drivetrain, bike shops won't have parts. But if bike shops don't have part, many won't buy the drivetrain.
@@alexus6237 The problem with these new technologies is no standardisation every brand has it’s own interpretation of these kond of drivetrains and cycleshops can not be asked to supply every brand or type..
Lectric eBikes just came out with their Lectric ONE that has one of these standard, along with belt drive. It's the C1.6i. Whole bike costs $1999 or $2199 (long range).
Electronics.
On bicycles.
Just say no.
Period.
Keep things MECHANICALLY simple.
I've got the priority HTX600 as featured in the video. I like the gearbox, but you guys didn't address my biggest issue with it, which is the slow engagement due to the ratchet mechanism in the gearbox. If they were to replace that with something smooth an instant like Shimano had done with their e bike motors, there would be no drawbacks to the new system.
All those chain built gearboxes are crap, end of discusion. For you who doesnt know Allen Milliard. Search for his channel here on YT. 20 years ago he built a downhill bike for his son. He is a motorcycle engineer who just saw all bicycles as trash, regarding the price. I still agree with him on that. A high end MTB costs more than most of the motorcycles you see on a daily basis. And for sure more than most mx/enduro motorcycles 😳.
Well... at US $1,000. for a damn gearbox I think I'll wait until AI assisted manufacture makes them for US $200.
once gearbox drivetrains sprout a standardized power-point, so a separate combo battery/motor (think of the removable fauza motor battery on a Trek e-caliber bike) can interface with the gearbox, we'll see the final distillation of merging acoustic bikes to electric bikes. All you'd need to do to make your gearbox bike an ebike, is to add a motor/battery power unit and you have an instant ebike, which is a 30 second conversion (pop a panel, and plop one in)....we're so close.
Missed opportunity for wireless shifters?! I'm sure that will come out in the aftermarket soon after
So actually this transmission competes with good electric bikes for this price.
So the question - do you need to spend such a lot of money to get small increase in comfort, but small decrease in efficiency? Or spend same amount to get much more comfort and improve efficiency of your pedalling?