Is Predestination True? (Part 3)
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- Опубліковано 3 сер 2020
- Watch the newest sermon from Apologia Church's series on the Doctrines of Grace. This message was delivered by Pastor Jeff Durbin. This week we studied the 'U' from the 5-points of Calvinism's "TULIP". Is the doctrine of Unconditional Election/Grace biblical? Watch and share this message and see.
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Being reformed and reading the Bible is like drinking water with ELECTrolytes 🤣
Lmao you a fool!
@@josuemerigo4506 lol, in what regard?
That's punny! 😏
I hope you don't mind me borrowing this for my InstaStories.🤣😉
@@jonhester8909 go right ahead haha
You nailed it,Jeff. I was a fake convert for years. I now realize how depraved I really am and only God chose to show Mercy to me. His ways are above my ways and although I’m not worthy, I am eternally grateful.
I am nothing without jesus my lord and saviour
I was a Christian 15 years and went around saying things like God called me out of my sin. Then when I heard these teachings it hit me that I was a Calvinist but didn’t know it because I’d never been taught. I was convinced of free will by the worlds standard. It blinded me to the deeper truths. I praise God for your ministry and others.
Read Ken Wilson's book "The Foundation of Augustinian-Calvinism", if you want to understand the history of the doctrine. Augustine was attempting to explain how infants could become the elect through water baptism. Since the child had not come to faith, it must be based on the will of another. It could have nothing to do with the will of the child.
SpotterVideo isn’t he that wrote a book about how Augustine was a manacian?
Happened that way for me too. Also by reading the Bible salvation being a process was revealed to me and calvanists also believe this .
System Revolt Called you out of sin? He’s the one that was having you do it to begin with, don’t you know everything that happens is bc God willed it? Don’t you know the reason I’m not a Calvinist right now is bc God doesn’t want me to know the truth?
Flatheads Rebuked that does not represent Calvinism at all. Biblically if you read the scriptures... biblically we have a bondage of the will. We love our sin and hate God. Then God pulls us from darkness to life spiritually and reveals the truth about our condition being dead in sin. Saving us into good works. It’s all an act of God. Yes, it was God’s will to save me, and he predestined it from eternity’s past. Everything does indeed happen for a reason. For God’s glory and my good.
God is completely sovereign. AMEN.
Praise God for using Pastor Jeff to help open our eyes and our hearts to God’s word! In Jesus’ mighty name, Amen.
Knowledge doesn't determine truth. Truth determines knowledge.
...not necessarily.
@@scottetherton2730 Really?! Give a biblical example.
If everything comes from God who is the truth then knowledge comes from truth; if knowledge comes as a result of truth. Colossians 1:17 says God is before all things. If knowledge is included in this "all things" then one could say the truth determines knowledgge given that the truth is God who is before all things according to that verse. Given this argument truth determines knowledge and not the way around.
all i can do is fall on my face and pray for mercy from our holy Father.
Do You have a Church Family? Elders that You submit to and share Your Life with?
Amen and amen! Amazing teaching!!!
God bless you pastor jeff much love from ethiopia
Just learning about Calvinism. Have been on the other side of the aisle but God is showing me the truth! Praying for deeper understanding...
Same brother. I literally didn't have any questions about the other parts of Calvinism personally they make perfect sense to me but predestination and free will is a hard teaching for sure. Praying for continued wisdom in God's Word.
Mason, I found the book The Sovereignty of God by AW Pink to be a tremendous help.
Pastor Durbin, I am like you in that I didn't know about Calvinism, but God showed me that He is the reason that we come to Him! 😌 I didn't know I needed Him until He made it known! 😔
How did you know that it was god who showed you Calvinism and not something you did, searched out, thought and about and eventually mentally assented to.
Did this god come to you in a vision convincing you of Calvinism/itself or are you meaning you watched one of Apologia’s videos?
Again, I am curious as to how you know that what happened to you can be ascribed to God showing you and making you know something.
@@ardbegthequestion You are assuming that the choices we make are completely free in the sense that we chose the environment in which we are open to hearing and listening. I believe we make choices but in terms of free will, I don't believe we can choose to fly much less a fish can choose to breathe outside of water. We have a sinful nature and can only make choices within the confines of our human limitations and nature. If you had ultimate free will, that means you can choose your character/personality traits, your preferences/likes or dislikes as well as any cognitive limitations.
Ask yourself this, do you choose to like something or do you DISCOVER the things you like? So yes, while we do choose to sin and are held responsible we don't choose our preferences and nature and propensity to sin. Many argue that this absolves any responsibility on the sinner and can therefore blame God for our sin, but that doesn't follow the argument. Our propensity to sin does not absolve our responsibility of the act of sin. We still choose even if it's based out of our nature. The ultimate question is, did you willfully choose to sin? You don't need to be independent of any nature to have responsibility over sin. That's a non-sequitur argument.
To be independent of any previous nature or inclination means to be God. As humans or any creation we are ultimately binded by our environment and circumstances and physical/mental limitations, we cannot think of concepts beyond what we already started with. Any idea or thinking or preference you have is a result of the environment you grew up in. To say you have no influence of any externalities would mean you would have to be God to be the origin point of all your thinking and preferences.
Everything that has a beginning has a cause. That includes us as humans/atomic level as well as the metaphysical such as our mind, thinking and preferences. Our thinking has a cause, the way we respond has a cause because it had a beginning. God has no cause to his character because he is a timeless and infinite being. That's why I argue that our preferences and nature cannot be independent of any externalities, it logically has to be dependent on our nature/nurture environment. Therefore we don't have "free will" in the strict ultimate definition of the phrase. We still have our own will but that will itself is not determined by us. All it takes to be responsible for sin is to willfully sin, even if we did not determine the will itself.
Proverbs 16:9 "In their hearts humans plan their course, but the LORD establishes their steps."
@@Raz0rIG - I actually do agree, free will is a bit of an illusion (though probably not how you would want to state your position). But tossing that aside as to not go down a rabbit hole. I would say though I both choose and discover. I hate broccoli. I chose to start eating it for my health and my taste buds changed to accept it. I wanted to like Scotch. I order one and it burned, but I wanted to like it, so I chose to like the taste and after thinking about the different flavors and experiences, I found ways other than focus on just burning to find enjoyment. My wife pisses me off and I recognize my desire to withdraw and isolate, but I choose to love her and draw close. So just these three examples, I'm sorry, no matter how much indoctrinated beliefs you throw at me with a bible verse to back it up, you are demonstrably wrong about how choice can work.
I would have argued back when I was a (fake) believer, that when I lashed our in anger at my daughter. I had sinned. Maybe this is where this will fall apart, but I'll continue not an analogy, but an actual event/occurrence/example. So I can recognize the fear, sadness, anger that my daughter felt. Upon reflection, I realized out of my own frustrations and unacknowledged bitterness that had built from a previous conversation with my wife, I had unconsciously lashed out towards someone more vulnerable to relieve this tension. Removed from the situation and seeing my daughter's reaction, I made a conscious choice to make amends, acknowledge my inappropriate behavior to both my wife and daughter and seek reconciliation. I then use this scenario as a learning to how to better handle situations next time and may even consider sitting with a counselor to help dig into motivations and better relational tools to help mitigate these conflicts. So in this specific example, which better describe, gives context and a offers an actual solution to transformation ("salvation from sin") - I am a sinner and Jesus offers forgiveness or the example I laid out. I realize I grossly simplified the gospel, but you can talk ad nauseam with a theological explanation, but it always seems wanting for something that actually comports to our lived experience. If one finds value in abstracting their behavior and way to seek what it means to live a moral and virtuous life into this spiritual metaphor, great. I'm just no longer convinced it's a pathway that makes sense to me.
Some questions to ask yourself as to not equivocate to smuggle in these unfalsifiable concepts of god:
Just in this statement alone: "Everything that has a beginning has a cause."
1) does "everything" have a beginning?
2) is God a thing, and therefore in the category of every-thing?
3) it would then follow that God has a beginning and therefore a cause?
@@ardbegthequestion interesting analogies...got me thinking for a while here but I agree 100%
Igor Milhomens - thanks for letting me know.
This was wonderful! All glory to God!
That was one of the best sermons I've heard in a long time. The illustration of judgement and how it relates to the courts is exactly right. We deserve nothing but death. Anything greater is unwarranted mercy.
“For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?”
Hebrews 10:26-29 ESV
www.bible.com/59/heb.10.26-29.esv
@Douglas nope, Jesus disagrees with you, he mentions you can be cut of from the tree of life and be thrown in the fire. Come on now
@@carlosz.5460 I would submit to you that you don't truly understand the bible, Jesus also says he will not lose any of those the Father has given him and that no one can snatch them from his or the father's hands so that verse alone contradicts your interpretation of that scripture you brought up. The bible does not contradict itself, if it seems as so then its the interpretation that is off. God Bless.
Brother.... that's some fire. Praise God I love it man.
Praise the Lord! Thank you Jesus!
You are amazing God ❤
Praise God for Durbin and all of Apologia.
I needed this sermon. Thank you
As a born again Christian, I believe that predestination and free will co-exist. My mind cannot comprehend it but I know it to be true. God would never create anyone to die but I do know that names are written in the Lamb’s book of life long before we were born. God bless.
Sorry Owain but Calvinistic predestination and true free will are opposites. The Calvinistic view of the sovereignty of God and true free will are not compatible with one another. If names are written in the Lamb's book of life before we are born it is down to the Arminian or Wesleyan understanding of the foreknowledge of God not from predestination in the Calvinist sense, except for perhaps some very rare cases. Calvinistic predestination depends on God choosing who He is going to give an effective call to, from the beginning of time or before. If this were the exception to the rule, as in perhaps the twelve apostles (Maybe 13 if you include Mathias and Paul), then this would not be a problem but Calvinism teaches that people can only ever be saved by such an effective call. Which means the vast majority of mankind that don't believe are going to hell because God decided not to give them an effective call. They are born in sin, they cannot avoid living in sin, and they go to hell for committing sins that they were totally unable to avoid committing. This is not gracious, loving or even just so I do not believe that this is the God of the Bible no matter how Calvinists try to twist the scriptures to try and make it out that it is. So I would direct you to the different interpretations of Soteriology 101, or Mike Winger and also to the sermons on the errors of Calvinism by Pastor Marc Monte. God is good, God bless you and keep you and guide you.
God knows everything that will happen whilst providing the way back to Him in life eternal and at the same time has allowed us to accept that gift of our own choice.
@@addisongarcia7238 Then you have to struggle with the fact that if God doesn't elect anyone, He contradicts his word and He isn't Sovereign since He isn't able to elect whomsoever He feels like.
@@addisongarcia7238 Well yes, in Romans 1:20 "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."
“For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?”
Hebrews 10:26-29 ESV
www.bible.com/59/heb.10.26-29.esv
What a great mercy and grace of God Most High to provide faithful preaching of His "living and active" Word! It is in no way insufficient or lacking is His Word. There was actually a sermon where I went yesterday based on "Jesus Calling" devotionals by Sarah Young. That's why by comparison I can greatly appreciate faithful preaching of God's real Word.
What a powerful sermon on the Doctrine of Grace!!! To be chosen and elected by God before the foundations of the earth.
EVERYONE WHO IS SAVED AND IS GOING TO HEAVEN WAS ALREADY CHOSEN BY GOD AND GIVING TO JESUS BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD 🌍 ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES LIKE IN EPHESIANS 1:4-5
ACCORDING IS GOD HAS CHOSEN US IN JESUS BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD 🌎, TO BE HOLY AND WITHOUT BLAME BEFORE JESUS IN GOD.
v5 HAVING PREDESTINATED US UNTO THE ADOPTION OF CHILDREN BY JESUS CHRIST TO HIMSELF, ACCORDING TO THE GOOD PLEASURES OF HIS WILL.
All the verses below speak about those who were chosen by God and given to Jesus BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD 🌎
WHICH PROVES THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS WHAT PEOPLE CALL FREE WILL CHOICE, WHICH YOU WILL NOT FIND ANYWHERE IN THE BIBLE BECAUSE IT IS 100% HERESY OR FALSE TEACHING.
JESUS ALWAYS DID THE WILL OF GOD THE FATHER AND SO SHOULD WE AS WE DIE OF OUR FLESH AND CHOICES IN THE FLESH AND WALK IN SPIRIT, OR CHRIST IS NOT IN US.
Here's a good Bible study for you! Gbu
Matthew 25:34
John 17 5 and 6
John 17:24
Ephesians 1:11
1st Corinthians 2:7
2nd Thessalonians 2: 13
2 Timothy 1:9
Titus 1 2
1 Peter 1:20
Revelation 13:8
Revelation 17:8
Imagine not being chosen. What a terrible deal.
@@eye1dry138 Are you married? Did you choose your wife?
@@wetlandweasel yes her family has much prestige, she was my first choice, when our families united our fortunes grew exponentially
@@eye1dry138 Since you chose your wife, then doesn't a sovereign God have the privilege and right to chose those whom He would give to His son?
I make a little cameo at 10:33 and 10:43. Probably the most exciting bits of the video.
Omgoodness… Please Lord, let me NEVER forget this😰🙏🏻❤️
Yes. Thank you.
All I can say is THANK YOU GOD🙏🏻😓❤️
Just wanted to be #500. Oh and Durbin is a rockstar! Go Ninja.
It premieres in 2 hours and its already got a thumbs down. Smh some just dont like to test their traditions. I look forward to listening live. How blessed we are to be called to sons of God from children of wraith. I praise his name.
iT bCuz g0d cAnnOt viOL8 mAi frEE WiLL bR0000
@@wakeinthecity9 remember these words when the time come bro. Stay touh just as now...do not cry or beg. Stay tough and receive what's coming to your for eternity
@@wakeinthecity9 You're correct. The Most High God will not violate your free will. Why are you here rn? To troll? You must believe there is a God, or you wouldn't point out the fact He won't violate your own will. Yes, He loves you that much. I must concur with "R K" on their comment. Memorize it, bro. *iT bCuz gOd wIlL reL8 tO yOU yOuR cOmMeNt b4 He gIvEs U JuStIcE.*
lol. i was joking. ive been a Christian for 12 years and a calvinist for 3. i guess sarcasm doesnt read well online. :/
@@wakeinthecity9 nah I got it. Came through fine. They might not be familiar with internet language.
Is Predestination True? Long story short: yes
“For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?”
Hebrews 10:26-29 ESV
www.bible.com/59/heb.10.26-29.esv
Where Pastor Jeff explains grace mercy and justice go to 17:00 as a witnessing tool. Then go over the whole thing later but it gets right to the point.
For God so loved the world that WHOSOEVER believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
That's to God pastor, I am Alfie Mendaje form Philippines
Calvinism shouldn’t be called Calvinism, it should just simply be called Biblical Christianity! God is in total control from top to bottom & side to side. I grew up believing a “prayer” saved me but overall I lived a reckless life of unrepentant sin. Once I heard the TRUE Gospel in all it’s truth & majesty, I was rocked to the core. I wept uncontrollably for days because I knew I was apart from Christ. I knew that if I died in that moment, I would’ve been sent to hell. God grabbed ahold of me and gave me a new heart, a new life, a new mind, new convictions, I was a new creature! I had nothing to do with these changes. God sought me out, he opened my eyes and he made me a new. All glory to him!!! Amen.
This! People reject labels…we just have to call it what it is…Biblical. Just teach and if someone says, “Is that Calvinism?” Just say, “It’s Bible.”
Good word Durban!
God did not choose me ,but I used my freewill and chose God praise be to me for choosing wisely,so now when I stand before God and He says well done thy good and faithful servant I will say yes I know .
The book of Job is all about the sovereignty of God. Armenians should re-read that book to understand their opinion of predestination. Arminian’s assumptions of God’ sovereignty and fairness parallels Job’s assumption of his sinlessness. Armenians seem to have a certain amount of unmortified pride in them still.
27:02 “You should watch worldstar it’s quiet a thing”
Probably the funniest thing I’ve heard come out of a preachers mouth
Excellent message Jeff. God bless y'all from Georgia
God can do whatever He wants with his creation, He didn't have to save anyone
+ didn't have to send
his beloved Son to died for sinners, We need God, He doesn't need us!!
I really struggle with the idea that he continues to let people be born who as the Bible's says it would be better off if they had never been born. This seems cruel. He didn't have to send his son but it seems it would be a greater act of mercy to just stop the process. So he is glorified by punishing people. He gets to display his greatness but people have to suffer for it. How am I supposed to see this as a good thing? They deserve it. Even so the idea of unending conscious torment is horrific. I just don't get it.
All the election of grace is and the elect is all those who have lived after the life, ministry and crucifixion and resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. We are living in the election of grace right now. We are the elect whether we choose to live in that grace or move from elect into the position of grace accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior is our choice...God Bless
YES!
Amen 🙏
There seems to be some confusion on the relationship between predestination and someone's faith in Christ. Predestination does NOT mean that someone can believe in Christ and follow in repentance, but since they wasn't on the divine guest list of heaven (i.e. in the elect), they will not go to heaven and are still under the wrath of God. Likewise, it is NOT saying that someone can reject the gospel, but because they were on the guest list, they will go to heaven. What it is saying is that those God has chosen will be given faith by God to believe the gospel and hence will believe. John 3:16 is not a refutation of the doctrine of election because the elect ARE the "whosoever shall believe...".
So you have to reconcile that Yahweh predestined souls to suffer in eternity for things they had no control of. There is no way to blame fallen sinful men when it is Yahweh who makes the rules... and chooses the losers. I heard a response from Sproul on this and it didn’t make sense.
God’s word (Ephesians 1:13) refutes Calvinism’s predestination and election. God does not first choose you, then regenerate and give you faith to believe, so you can go on to hear the gospel and believe to be saved. The preaching of the the gospel (DBR:1Co15:1-4) is first, followed by hearing it, followed by believing and being saved at the moment of belief, followed by the Holy Spirit sealing the believer, followed by putting the believer into the Body of Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Jim Fields I read this as to the gentiles. This runs with the thought that the wall of hostility between them has been brought down in Christ... making us one body, chapter 2. People keep reading verses as separate teachings but Paul has a thought he’s working through. Convincing Jews that gentiles are able to receive the promised salvation. I agree. Ephesian 1 isn’t talking about individual election. But the election of the Jews. Then God, in the NT revealing the salvation also of the gentiles. This is practically the second half of Ephesians 2.
Remember Jews that were Christians had a difficult time believing this. This is why Paul spends most of his letters explaining how this is possible. Remember the Jews that Paul rebukes throughout Galatians are believers in Christ. Even the apostles in Jerusalem had their issues. See Acts 15. Even Peter had to convince the other elders of what was happening to the gentiles.
Knowing this helps us see what Paul is explaining in Ephesians. The chosen motif has always been the Jews. It literally is spelled out hundreds of time in the OT. So now that God had also chosen the gentiles was hard to believe.
@@Keliiyamashita To your objection, I believe Paul addresses this in Romans 9:
What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” , to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?
I struggled with this idea for a long time that you brought up. However, we need to acknowledge that God is not on trial where us humans are going to judge whether He is a good God or not based on how many people He can get into heaven. We were created for His glory, so he has rights over what he offers to us and there is no foul on his side. God is not good because he serves humans, but because He is to be desired and served for His own sake. He has already shown that He is good, even if we don't understand why He chooses to do certain things.
I don't understand why God would create people He would ultimately destroy; I would not do that if I were Him. However, I cannot ignore what is written in scripture regarding this. I need to acknowledge that His ways are higher and better then my ways and admit that it is a mystery that I will not fully grasp, at least in this life.
@@jfh7777 The reformed position has never been that true faith is given before or outside of hearing the gospel. The passage you cited, as well as Romans 10: 14-15, refutes the notion that God grants faith to people outside of the preaching of the gospel.
I suppose the real question here election tries to answer is how come when the gospel is preached, why do some people accept it with faith and others do not. Are those people who accepted it smarter or more spiritually sensitive then those who did not? If so, wouldn't that be a reason for one to boast in themselves concerning their salvation (which the not the case according to Ephesians 2:8-9)?
The doctrine of election is probably the most humbling doctrine in the New Testament. It inspires incalculable thankfulness to our ineffable God.
How is it humbling if you’re one of the few hand picked personally by God to join His elite club?
Sounds like means to boast to me.
@@evanu6579 bro, in all love and respect it's humbling when you understand God could've left you unforgiven and receive the penalty you deserved. I was even more humbled when I considered that I didn't have any self-realization of how depraved I was and could've been left in that state until He returns and then be forced to my knees to confess He is Lord but still be unable to inherit a blessed eternal life of joy because I'll be stuck in eternal torment. I'll admit I had a bit of cage stage when I crossed over to being a Calvinist and had to repent of trying to share what Jeff is preaching in an umm...less than cordial manner.
The distinction to be made here is to be overwhelmed by what God DID of His own free will vs anything I ever could have done with my so called free will. Hope that wasn't harsh or boastful.
james hook
Who created you to be so depraved in the first place?
Are you aware that Nero would take Christians and light them on fire to light up his garden. He did it for his own glory.
Calvinism has God creating most of mankind so utterly depraved so that they’re doomed from the womb to justify tormenting them for all eternity. To make certain their demise, he even gives them Adams guilt to seal their torment before they were ever born.
The first four hundred years of church fathers condemned the Gnostic beliefs that Augustine eventually brought into the church. Now you’ve been convinced it’s true too. Funny how Jeff can take such a demonic view of God and convince so many people that you’re giving him glory with such a view of him.
Wayne S
Which is completely contrary to scripture which clearly states that faith precedes regeneration.
I don’t know if they’re aware of what their belief consequently does to God’s character. Of course those who pedal this stuff try to make it out that we care about our free will rather than God’s character but that’s part of the means of getting them. They strike at their emotions.
God bless you brother. Keep fighting against all heresies that twist the Gospel and the nature of God.
@@evanu6579 I don't think you understand calvinism.
I love that I have this to get me through work out here in the “world”. Thanks apologia
This just leaves me with more questions...
Hey if you're confused, don't be sad; that's exactly what God wants! You to be confused! Isn't he glorious?!
Amen, let His word expound your Intellect and not only regenerate your operation but your intellect
J Mach yah Frank Tureks answer is far more logical and I struggle with it less morally. I think Jeff is slightly incorrect on this one.
ua-cam.com/video/kKKiqvF-_pc/v-deo.html
@@rabbitcreative 1 Corinthians 14:33 " For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints."
@@sally9352 Genesis 11:9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there *confound* the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
God does what he wants.
For those wondering "How could God create people he would ultimately destroy?" I offer this: if you have ever written a story, if you have ever enjoyed a story, 1) is there a villain, and 2) does he not die or get judged in the end? Do you want the villain to survive in freedom unless he either, 1) becomes a hero after changing his ways, or 2) lives to be fought by the hero again in the future? In other words, every fictional villain is designed as an object of wrath. That's his function. It is not always fair to attribute our own motives to God, but it's very possible this motive in storycrafting stems from God.
And the author telling his tale is something we all understand. No one blames an author for genocide of his own created beings if that event is what puts his heroes on their path to victory. It's not considered evil because they are his own created things, not beings equal to himself.
It is necessary for the tale being told that there is an enemy to be defeated. That is my current understanding of the elect and the non-elect.
So it’s ok because some people write about fictitious characters?
These are real people. These are our parents and children and neighbours who are going to burn for all eternity and according to Calvinism, it’s not because they’re criminals, but because God victimized them to play that role for His glory. Too bad so sad. Not everyone gets to play the good guy.
@@evanu6579 Where do you think storytelling comes from? It's not a coincidence we all innately understand how sweet victory is after overcoming great trial. Fiction is the easiest way to illustrate it to the modern world. And you've missed the logical thread. Creators of fictional worlds are, in effect, the gods of those universes. They're allowed to sculpt it to their whims and establish enemies/catastrophies, etc. God does the same thing. Yes, there is a difference between real people and fictional people. But that's because in a fictional universe, the fake people are the creation and we are the creators. This seeing our creations as lesser than ourselves is exactly the same logic as how a creator God would see his creation. They exist materially and spiritually whereas ours only exist mentally. That's the only difference between our creation and God's creation. But it does not alter the relationship between created and Creator. God is just and good. Any destruction brought about by his hands or decree is both just and good and we can expect it to serve a greater purpose than the calamity in the present. If you can't understand this, you don't understand storytelling and the power of triumph through evil.
I would have to respectfully dissagree( I'm not trying to pick fights this is just my opinion)
First off, the 'elect' are also those villains just they have been chosen to be forgiven. We have not and cannot do anything to "becomes a hero after changing his ways"
Second, who decided, "It is necessary for the tale being told that there is an enemy to be defeated." This is not a story or a tale this is real life.
Thirdly, it seems psychotic of God to create a person to ultimately be tortured and rot for eternity because they weren't allowed to choose righteousness. It's like parents telling their child he is going to be punished because they tell him he will not clean the dishes later that day. He has not choice to clean those dishes the parents made that choice for him, and are going to punish him.
Fourth, read the Bible. We see God repeatedly sending messages, prophets, and eventually His own son begging us to choose Him. Why would Gd be emotional and tell us to choose Him if He had already decided out fate?
Lastly, you have to look at the Bible as a whole. There are tons of stories and verses talking about our free will and ability to believe in God. You cannot sniper shot the few verses and stories of predestination.
The difference is that God created living human souls that will suffer for eternity and a story in a book is just ink on paper and has no suffering it can inflict on living human souls
@@eye1dry138 Did you think I didn't know that when I made the comparison?
I believe in absolute free sovereign Grace. Salvation is of the Lord. Preach the gospel to everyone you meet. God will save his chosen. It’s just that simple. Like in the parable plant the seed and go to bed. God gives the increase.
If Arminians were right the verse would say," Some plant and some water,but God gets the increase".
Amen!!
"...There is none that seeketh after God." Rom 3:11. It seems to me that "none" would include everyone, even Christians. This letter was written to believers (1:7), this section is addressing the Jews specifically (2:17, 24). "Therefore thou art inexcusable...for wherin thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou...doest the same things." (2:1). "Behold, thou...restest in the law....and knowest His will..(2:17,18). The point of this passage is to show that everyone is guilty of breaking God's law (3:19, 20). If at any time in a person's life they do not seek God then they would be guilty of this offense. The point Paul is making is NOT that nobody EVER seeks God, but that they don't CONSISTENTLY seek Him. The law requires perfection, anything short of it makes one guilty (Rom 2:23-25; Jas 2:10). To use this passage to support the idea that man is incapable of seeking God is handling His word deceitfully. We are being told that man can believe everything EXCEPT the truth of the gospel. Not only is this unscriptural but it also flies in the face of reason! Compare Rom 3:12 with Lk 6:33.
"Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen."
Deuteronomy 27:26. KJV
56:20 THIS WAS THE MESSAGE THAT RESTORED AND EDIFIED ME IN MY WALK AND RELATIONSHIP. ONE OF MANY VESSELS THE HOLY SPIRIT USED TO REMIND ME THAT THIS IS ALL HIM IN EVERY ASPECT OF MY SALVATION THAT IT IS FINISHED! AS EVIDENT THROUGHOUT MY LIFE BY MY RELATIONSHIP I KNOW THAT I CANT BE TAKEN OUT OF HIS HAND…SATAN LOST STRATEGY THANK YOU FATHER FOR ALLOWING IS TO EXIST AND HOLDING LIFE TOGETHER THANK YOU FOR SAVING US WHILE WE WERE STILL SINNERS IN JESUS MIGHTY NAME
Plot twist: What if God’s will is that we choose whether or not to follow him? Whoa. No one can thwart His will, including….His will for us to choose? Whoa.
I can’t escape from or get around these doctrines. They are all too clear in God’s word. It’s difficult thinking about my lost family members. All I can do is pray for God to save them.
If I fall off a boat and am unable to get back on board on my own, tonsave myself, but then someone reaches out to me and I accept the person's hand, am I saving myself?
No, the other person is saving me, even though I reached out and accepted their offer of saving me.
Therefore, just because I accept Jesus does not mean I save myself, if it wasn't for Jesus reaching out to me, as I do not seek after God, because I am my own God, as I exalt myself above God's throne and soverign power.
Not that I am unable to seek after Him. I am simply preoccupied with going my own way.
As Lucifer and Adam before me.
These are just a few of the MANY verses that speak of people making a choice; where Calvinism says, there is "No choosing" God decides. Isaiah 56:4 says, "For this is what the Lord says: “To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who CHOOSE what pleases me..." Isaiah 65:12 says, "...I spoke but you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and CHOSE what displeases me.” Isaiah 7:15 says, "...He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and CHOOSE the right..." Proverbs 3:31 says, "... Envy thou not the oppressor, and CHOOSE none of his ways." 1 Chronicles 21:11 says, "So Gad went to David and said to him, “This is what the Lord says: ‘Take your CHOICE: three years of famine, three months of being swept away before your enemies, with their swords overtaking you, or three days of the sword of the Lord..."
yes
God's sovereignty is one of the
most important principles in Christian
theology, as well as one of its most hotly
debated. Whether or not God is actually
sovereign is usually not a topic of debate.
all mainstream Christian sects agree tha
God is preeminent in power and authority.
God's sovereignty is a natural consequence
of His omniscience, omnipotence, and
omnipresence. What's subject to
disagreement is to what extent God applies
His sovereignty- specifically, how much
control He exerts over the wills of men
When we speak of the sovereignty of God,
we mean He rules the universe, but then the
debate begins over when and where His
control is direct and when it is indirect.
God is described in the Bible as all-powerful
and all-knowing (Psalm 147:5). outside of
time (Exodus 3:14; Psalm 90:2), and
esponsible for the creation of everything
(Genesis 1:1; John 1:1). These divine traits
set the minimum boundary for God's
sovereign control in the universe, which is
to say that nothing in the universe occurs
WITHOUT GOD'S PERMISSION. God has
the power and knowledge to prevent
anything He chooses to prevent, so
anything that does happen must, at the very
least, be "ALLOWED" by God
At the same time, the Bible describes God
as offering humanity choices (Deuteronomy
30.15-19). holding them personally
responsible for their sins (Exodus 20:5), and
being unhappy with some of their actions
(Numbers 25.3). The fact that sin exists at
all proves that not all things that occur are
the direct actions of God, who is holy. The
reality of human volition (and human
accountability) sets the maximum boundary
for God's sovereign control over the
universe, which is to say there is a point at
which God chooses to allow things that He
does not directly cause
The fact that God is sovereign essentially
means that He has the power, wisdom, and
authority to do anything He chooses within
His creation. Whether or not He actually
exerts that level of control in any glver
circumstance is actually a completely
different question. Often, the concept of
divine sovereignty is oversimplified. We
end to assume that, if God is not directly
overtly purposefuly driving some event,
then He is somehow not sovereign. The
cartoon version of sovereignty depicts a
God who must do anything that He can do,
or else He is not truly sovereign
Of course, such a cartoonish view of God's
sovereignty is logically false. If a man were
to put an ant in a bowl, the sovereignty" of
the man over the ant is not in doubt, The ant
may try to crawd out, and the man may not
want this to happen. But the man is not
forced to crush the ant, drown it, or pick i
up. The man, for reasons of his own, may
choose to let the ant crawl away, but the
man is still in control. There is a difference
between allowing the ant to leave the bowl
and helplessly watching as it escapes. The
cartoon version of God's sovereignty
implies that, if the man is not actively
holding the ant inside the bowl, then he
must be unable to keep it in there at all.
The illustration of the man and the ant is at
least a vague parallel to God's sovereignty
over mankind. God has the ability to do
anything, to take action and intervene in any
situation, but He often chooses to act
indirectly or to allow certain things for
reasons of His own. His willis furthered in
any case. Goď's "sovereignty" means that
He is absolute in authority and unrestricted
in His supremacy. Everything that happens
is, at the very least, the result of God's
permissive will. This holds true even if
certain specific things are not what He
would prefer. The right of God to allow
mankinď's free choices is just as necessary
for true sovereignty as His ability to enact
His will, wherever and however He chooses.
Joshua 24:15
."But if it is unpleasing in your sight to serve the LORD, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD!”
It Did NOT say CHOOSE this day if you will BE SAVED. It is talk8ng about SERVICE NOT SALVATION. Every day we are called to pick up our cross and follow him.... it is the process of sanctification. Every day the saved makes that choice. The lost are not free to make that choice, the saved are because we are free indeed. You are pushing salvation onto the word serve. Do you read your Bible everyday? Can you choose to not read it? Choose you this day to (read the word, witness, bear your cross) SERVE! Not save.
John 3:36, Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
@@John11-25 we don't know who the who so ever is that God has predestined therefore we must preach the gospel to all the "who so Evers" in order for those that God will save among the who so evers can be saved. Does it bother you, that is do you think it is wrong that God CHOSE ti save the Jews, make them His chosen ppl, and not the Romans? Understand, when God Chose the Jews, God's CHOICE, He did NOT SAY IT WAS THERE CHOICE, If it was NOT UNJUST for God to choose the Jews without their permission, and not the Romans, why is it unjust for God to save you and not me without our permission. Salvation is a MIRICLE of God NOT a DECISION of man. Those that reject God do so because they hate him and in their fallen state CAN NOT CHOOSE TO LOVE THAT WHICH THEY HATE.
Romans 10:9 "If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
During these series, the pastor added tattoos on his arms three times. God clearly forbade believers to do this.
Yes He DID. Around the same time He forbade certain cloths to be worn together. He did that at a certain time for a certain people. For a certain purpose.
Though I no longer continue tattooing myself, Durbin is not disobeying God's commands or statutes.
You're stumbling on the chronology and the purpose in context, brother.
John 6:44, Romans 8:8
where can I find Parts 1 and 2 of this series?
The key lies in the elect in Christ
Jeff is very educated in the Word and i learn from his teaching, but i cant swallow that some are predestined to be saved, i learned that whosoever calls on the Lord and believes with all his heart that His blood cleanses our sin shall be saved, grace, mercy and faith. If all my hope was just this world and no chance of heaven for me and some others i would be the most miserable man in the world.
Troy, I totally agree. I love watching Jeff preach and speak with those at various places. I learn quite the bit. But, just like you, I can’t swallow predestination or a prescribed elect. The scripture says He stands at the door and knocks, not walking through the door where He picks the locks.
Well ok. Finally finished the whole sermon. My main take-away. Jesus didn’t pick me to be on his team though I thought I was for 30+ years. I guess I’ll hope he really picks me, but if not just constantly live with some low level guilt and shame and resentment that I have hell to look forward to.
If you care and are worried if you are saved or not, you’re of the elect. You wouldn’t care less if you didn’t know Jesus.
Pyan_Rage - so then I’m just a sub-par Christian because I don’t actively participate in the whole venture, nor currently hold belief in a majority of it’s tenants? If so sweet. I only care in so much as that I still have baggage coming out of faith and fail to have the justification for stating I have a meaningful relationship with anything divine/spiritual and judge my worry is most likely deep seeded fear of most hell concepts that have been communicated and understood by myself.
I appreciate though, your perspective.
Bradley S. - are those my only two options? What do you mean by Corp church and what do you mean by leaving Jesus? I have concepts but I want to know what you mean.
@@ardbegthequestion if you looked for a relationship with God and not unto the knowledge and understanding of men you will find your answer. 2 Timothy 2:7 " The Lord will give you understanding of everything"
Sola Gratia - do you find it remotely ironic that Paul had to tell Tim that (and a whole bunch of other stuff in all his letters to people)? And why should I read that this applies to me? It’s clearly a letter from one guy to another. Sure I can pick out some stuff that I could apply to my life and disregards the other bits that are clearly culture driven. What does it mean to have the lord give insight other than meaning just reflect on what this means. I get his concept, just not the agency detection of something else interacting in that process.
We are all predestined for hell if we do not accept Jesus as Lord and Savior when we hear his Word and realize we are lost. By His Grace we are saved, but we can refuse His gift of Salvation. This is called Free will. He does not Save anyone against their will.
False. God does force his people to come to him
The dispensational Arminian explanation of election where God looks down the corridors of time to sees who will pick Him doesn’t make sense when taken to its logical conclusion.This idea leaves God as a bystander in human history… A sort of quasi-deist view.
No, the Arminian explanation of election does not make God a bystander in any sense of the word. Taking the Calvinist explanation of the sovereignty of God, on the other hand, results in calling good evil and evil good. God in Calvinism is the ONLY real agent. Calvinists try to tack on human responsibility for sins but utterly fail to explain how this makes sense when they make God the controller of the tiniest thing.
Anyway, God in Arminianism, to begin with is always the initiator. It is God who reaches out to man. It was God who made man, it was God who reached out to basically all the prophets, Noah, Abraham, Moses etc. At God's appointed time Jesus became incarnate, as the Bible says when we were still sinners and in enmity towards Him, Jesus reached out to the Jews but also to Samaritans and commended the faith of even a Roman. Now, God is still the giver of prevenient grace, through His word, through His church etc etc and not least through His personal action in the person of the Holy Spirit. So, God is never a mere bystander. The question is what did God set out to do with the gospel? Did He just set out to save a chosen few and leave the leave the rest without any real opportunity to believe? The Arminian that accepts the Calvinist idea that predestination to salvation really is part of the Bible says it might have appeared to Calvin or his followers that was the the teaching of scripture but the a real belief in God's foreknowledge would mean that God could choose for salvation those whom He foreknew would with the help of His prevenient grace accept Jesus and God predestined them to be saved. So God is active, and it is His design that this is how things should work from the beginning to the end.
@@spiritualrearmament3266 Nice reply. It just isn't scriptural. It is wholly based on the philosophy of man.
@@MegaTigers01 beyondthefundamentals.com
Spiritual Rearmament Well explained Calvinist believe God ordains evil, I really don’t need to say anything else to prove this doctrine is not only false, but I’m tempted to say it’s heresy. According to Calvinist if a child is molested or raped, (or anyone for that matter) God is the one responsible for it and he did so for his glory, John Calvin literally said that God makes some people just to send them to Hell, Calvinism when you think about it has no true assurance of salvation bc how did John Calvin know he himself wasn’t one of those people? In this sense it’s similar to Islam.
Stan Brown Preciously and it’s nigh heresy if not heresy, Augustine was a bit off in some areas too.
One thing you guys missed is that God said no one shall teach his neighbor or brother
God also had other reasons why he did not allow everybody to be chosen and given to Jesus.
1. So we had a battlefield to win souls and earn 5 Crowns to glorify him with. Ephesians 6:10-17
The Crown 👑 of Life James 1:12 and Revelation 2:10
Crown 👑 of rejoicing - 1 Thessalonians 2:19
Crown 👑 of righteousness 2nd Timothy 4:8
Crown 👑 of Glory 1 Peter 5:4
Incorruptible Crown 👑 1 Corinthians 9:25
2. So God and Jesus would be the King 👑 of kings and Lord of lords for eternity in the third heaven. Revelation 21:1-2
3. There shall be 24 thrones around God's throne with 24 Kings with crowns. Revelation 4:4
12 of the Old testament and 12 of the New testament.
1 Thesselonians 5:9
If God's choosing ahead of time who is going to believe, then what role does evangelism play?
EDIT: Posted too soon
1:05:08 in case you have the same question
God chose ahead of time who would be saved when the New Covenant first began....
Mal 3:16 Then 👉🏻they that feared the LORD 👈🏻spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for 👉🏻them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name👈🏻.
17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Predestination in the bible is for believers, not to become believers. It’s used 3 times in the bible and all three time’s it’s referring to events that happen at the resurrection. If you’re in Christ, you’re predestined to take part of the resurrection when the adoption happens, when you receive the inheritance, and when you are conformed to His image.
Calvinists tend to twist things a bit to make it fit their narrative.
God bless
If you watch the video you will get your answer.
@@evanu6579 Predestination in the bible is for OC Israel - spoken to the ones in Malachi who were robbing God in tithes and offerings. That is where we find the prophecy about Elijah to come (4:5) - who Jesus reveals was John the Baptist. Israel was coming to its prophesied end and the election Jeff is talking about is not for us in our day - but it was for the Jews and Gentiles in that day. Jeff should know better...
Robin Q
I could possibly agree with you except I would ask a question.
Do you believe that the resurrection has taken place already? If not, then wouldn’t all believers be predestined to the adoption and to an inheritance and to be conformed into the image of Christ?
@@evanu6579 Yes I do and the judgment that fell upon Jerusalem in 70AD signified it. Now WE can be assured that whosoever lives and believes on Christ will never die; that is where WE stand in our hope in Christ today - John 11:25-26
I always wondered why it said slave but also free will. Blew my mind to realize free will isn’t there. Also the part about the potter. I was finding contradictions.
Justice in a human court assumes the criminal choose to commit the crime. Then yes, justice is deserved. However, if a criminal's crime was not through choice how is sentencing deserved or just?
If Adam had no choice to obey or disobey but rather God chose, how can he be a just God for delivering sentence onto Adam and his seed?
Doesn't predestination relieve satan and Adam as the ones who introduced sin because it would have been God's will that Adam disobeyed?
Trying to understand. As a sinner I want to belong to God but know I am unable unless God through the helper, the Holy Spirit, helps me. On my own I will never succeed. If me seeking him counts for nothing. Why does the Bible say, seek and you will find? Mathew 7:7-8
what sermon do they talk about foreknown? Pastor Jeff Durbin said he has talked about it before
Any way that The Flood can be used as a passage for predestination?
Sure. Just say it does and come up with a string of that’s becauses and yes it becomes a story about predestination.
Let’s see, um... Noah and his family were specifically called by god to build and get on that big wooden boat (that would never actually work in real life on so many levels, but let’s grant we’re not talking about this as a metaphorical folklore tale). He didn’t call anyone else, boom predestination!
@@calvinpeterson9581 then wouldn't that mean God is sorry over the wicked actions of man crucifying Jesus that he ordained to happen?
@@calvinpeterson9581 I hear that. I've heard the ark was a type or shadow of the cross. Noah was preaching to the people in a "way of reconciling them to God." God had foreknowledge of the wicked actions of the men before the flood and before the cross. I'm just curious if when believers speak about predestination if the story of Noah and the ark is a building block in showing that predestination can be valid?
I have command and soverign power over my son, if I tell him to do something, he will have two options, obey or disobey.
This doesn't take away my soverign power over him, why?
Because if He obeys he will be rewarded but if he does not, he will be punished.
This is God's complete control: Sovereignty
Predestination is true.
But so is Free-Will.
It is Free-Will which obscures perception of predestination, just as perception of predestination obscures Free-Will.
All perception flows through ego, as ego is the obscurer.
Here’s what you should probably consider when you hear with exuberant passion, that this IS the biblical gospel - 9 other (men) will tell you a different version with just as much passion and biblical references and theological workings. Who to believe? I guess the one who barks the loudest?
Please answer this question! We fall under fallen nature because of Adams choice to sin. Did God make Adam as already condemned to sin or did Adam create sin independently?
Wasn’t Satan when kicked from heaven proof that God created evil if he is sovereign? I wrestle with these pieces of original sin. If God created sin what’s Adams roll in causing us all to be condemned?
@@Monday2705 he created for his glory
Molinism is heresy. It portrays God as a super-computer crunching numbers and running scenarios (all containing information that comes from somewhere outside of Him), constraining His actions to a list of factors that He is forced to act in. It is a doctrine of man that seeks to ignore the clear teaching of scripture.
How do I now pray for my unsaved husband?
Did Adam choose to disobey God or was it God's will?
Wouldn't predestination mean it was God's will he disobeyed?
Am I the only one who for what ever reason listened to the ("Templeton Religion Trust") ad before this sermon and lived to regret it..so cringe!
Well Jeff, HOW DOES GO DRAW US?
Surely an injustice has been done if we sin because of our totally depraved nature which is a result of our status in Adam and there is nothing we can do about our own nature. It sounds as though the unelect were born sinners (through no fault of their own) and have no chance of redemption.
A Superior Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion for a second one. 8 But finding fault with His people,[c] He says:[d]
Look, the days are coming, says the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah-
9 not like the covenant
that I made with their ancestors
on the day I took them by their hands
to lead them out of the land of Egypt.
I disregarded them, says the Lord,
because they did not continue in My covenant.
10 But this is the covenant
that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be My people.
11 And each person will not teach his fellow citizen,[e]
and each his brother, saying, “Know the Lord,”
because they will all know Me,
from the least to the greatest of them.
12 For I will be merciful to their wrongdoing,
and I will never again remember their sins.[f][g]
13 By saying, a new covenant, He has declared that the first is old. And what is old and aging is about to disappear.
I love theological humor
The one thing you overlooked though is Hebrews 8
It's funny, you say that your version of predestination focuses on God while the correct interpretation focuses on the person but the opposite is true. If only God is participating in Salvation, the connotation is that there must be some reason that God does not want you to go to Hell while others he is eager to have in torment for Eternity. How special you must be for God to pick you out of millions while letting them burn. But correct interpretation of predestination is a realization of the mercy, magnanimity and wonderfulness of God. If you're version is correct, then there is no need for faith...faith has no real use. Faith becomes garnish and I don't think God's faith is garnish. Faith (in operation, concerning this topic) is the nexus wherein we connect with God. We are created in God's image. One of the meanings of this is that we are created to communicate with God on a peer type level. This is done by giving Man the possession and ability to use faith. If your version of predestination is true then faith is superfluous. Oh, but you don't need to listen. You know that God has chosen you. Now that you are one of the very special and better than everyone who is not chosen, few: you need not listen to anything, including Scripture as a whole, logic and intellect, which might bring your fairly new to the world of Christendom, theology into question. Like the group interprets: "don't let you beauty be your braided hair," to mean women are not allowed to cut their hair, thereby making them the true and better than others Christian: you have taken a quite easily understandable concept and molded it to make you the truly chosen. P.S. I was chatting with one of your admirers who asked for Scripture rather than example, so here is one: God does not wish any should perish, no not one. This Scripture flies directly opposed to your elitist, self aggrandizing doctrine. Frankly, it puts it to unequivocal rest.
Is god alive today!
He is the living god. But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God and the everlasting King. At his wrath the earth quakes, and the nations cannot endure his indignation. - Jeremiah 10:10 It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God. - Hebrews 10:31
God extends Grace to the humble, but resists the proud
There is a difference between predestination and predetermination . . . people often confuse the two, and assume predestination means predetermination. I think you would agree that God desires "all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" . . . that's the destiny planned, intended, for us:
⚫ "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:4)
And that God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance:
⚫ "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)
That's the destiny intended for all of us. But we have free will and can refuse His plan. Many choose the wide, easy way that leads to destruction. Calvin made a whole new religion with his idea that some are *predetermined* for salvation and the rest are *predetermined* not to be saved. Apparently Calvin never thought to ask himself why anyone would face judgment if everything's predetermined anyway . . . common sense shows predetermination is bogus doctrine.
Nothing *else* can pluck us out of His hand . . . but we ourselves can turn away from Him and no longer abide in Him. What happens then?
⚫ "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (Jesus, in John 15:6)
⚫ "If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:" (2 Timothy 2:12)
Unless we abide in Him in repentance, walking "after the spirit" (Romans 8:1) we'll return to condemnation, no longer "in His goodness" or grace . . . and we'll be "cut off":
⚫ "For if God spared not the natural branches [the Israelites], take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." (Romans 11:21,22)
You didn’t get the entire message…
Whosoever believes is not everyone but rather anyone that will believe by seeking God by faith.
Seeking God is not that we are special or have something others do not, it is impossible to please God without faith. Some are exalted that are humbled to seek God and many are humbled.
This is God sovereign will according to His Word. His Work is to believe in Jesus. God does not go against His Word with His will. I am not saying once we receive salvation. This is a gift from God but it is our choice to believe the gospel.
If it is Gods will that none suffer but all granted repentance by God by coming into the knowledge of truth, then we do have a choice to make with the faith given by God through His Word.
Unconditional elect is prophets and Apostles that we’re chosen. Israel that was chosen and we are called by hearing the gospel and believing. Many are called but only few are chosen.
John 17
Gives the distinction between the first fruits of the Spirit that are chosen and those called by God through their word of the gospel of Jesus.
We know the prophets were chosen by God and we know Israel was chosen by God and we know the disciples of Jesus were chosen by God according to His purpose to prophecy and fulfilling and spreading the gospel of Jesus.
It has been written by men under the power of the Holy Spirit and it is completed.
We are called through their word inspired by the Holy Ghost. The inspired Word of God.
I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
( Do you see the distinction between the chosen and the called by their word)
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Yes Jeremiah was known before the womb and ordained and sanctified in the womb. He was selected by God.
We are called by the gospel of Jesus.
Paul was the last chosen as far as we know.
God searches the hearts for faith and makes intercession for them according to His will. His will is that we come to repentance and believe in Jesus to save us from our sins. That we are thankful to God. That we come to know Him and abide in Him.
We are one in Christ with them , we are called by them that are chosen. I believe those chosen believe in Jesus as well.
Prophesying prophets of old look to Jesus coming.
The Apostles were in His presence here on earth, Paul that was a late birth but met by Jesus looked at Jesus.
Other than Paul they were chosen before Jesus said it is finished.
Paul was given great revelation and was chosen by Jesus to give the gospel to the Jew first and then the gentiles.
We look back at Jesus Gospel through the Word. Yes it is present and living but we are coming to knowledge after it is finished.
We have faith from hearing the Word and are rewarded by diligently seeking God according to His Word by faith. We are saved by hope that is not seen. The Apostles seen the hope and testified of it by spreading the gospel. Paul was given great revelation.
If we are not preselected and determined by God, then we must seek Him by faith to believe in Jesus through His good news.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Believing in Jesus is how God gives mercy. God is merciful to those that are merciful, he forgives those that forgive, why? They live the gospel they believe in for themselves through Jesus. This is a belief not in vain. The humbled. Blessed are the poor in Spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus prayed for Peters faith knowing he would deny Jesus three times. He didn’t pray Peter would not deny Him. He prayed for His faith in Him.
Why did Jesus preach the gospel in hades?
Why are the poor given more faith?
Why was Lazarus who had nothing sit in the bosom of Abraham and the rich man opened his eyes in hell.
Because Gods Word says so. The Word says He gives more faith to the poor.
Jesus said He saves the broken. Is this according to the gospel of Jesus? Yes! Jesus proclaimed it. This doesn’t remove the gospel of Jesus.
Israel has a promise coming, this is why they are chosen.
To rightly divide the Word of God we understand those that He foreknew were those called according to His purpose. The elect. The first fruits of the Holy Spirit. God is all knowing but not all know Him.
Jesus was talking about His disciples, He made this clear. Then He spoke of those that would hear their word and believe.
Yes it is according to Gods will that is according to His Word.
We are predestined by God according to His will and purpose and according to His Word being received.
Do we have a choice? Yes. Will God turn away anyone that comes to Jesus? No
Does this mean they will all go to Heaven? No, not those that do not believe in truth, workers of iniquity. Deceitful beliefs that do not believe in Jesus alone by faith alone.
Why would God say He rewards them that diligently seek Him by faith? His Word says this. It is your choice to believe Gods Word by faith and seek Him. God makes it clear in His Word those that He draws.
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.
Faith alone is not found in the word of God, except to negate it, as we must bear fruit and forgive others and love one another and repent and obey and perservere to the end. Even if one has all faith, but does not love, it is useless. Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is True food and Blood True drink
@@matthewbroderick8756 As reformed we believe that grace alone through faith alone saves us but faith is seldom alone. All those things you mentioned come as a result of a regenerated heart that now places his faith in Jesus Christ, not as an addition to faith to save us.
Matthew Broderick I believe receiving Jesus by faith, when going through trials we have the love of God shed abroad in our hearts by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Yes we will be fruitful with a new heart. It is the root in love and faith in Jesus Christ alone. It isn’t faith in our faith.
The fruit will be known by our heart, with Jesus ruling in it. I believe Jesus saves, you cant save yourself.
A good tree( heart and soul and mind) can only produce good fruit. Believing Jesus is ruling in your heart and God is willing in you to do what is pleasing is with God.
With man this is impossible, with God all things are possible.
God can make a man stand! Believe in Jesus to save you literally, by coming to Him and trusting in Him.
Many have no problem believing Jesus can save except when it comes to them, so they never fully receive the love of the truth to be founded in Him.
Faith + works equals salvation to them.
Faith in God to believe His Word has lost its origin. To believe in Jesus to save you fully.
Here is faith.
Faith in God to believe in Jesus= salvation + works.
We use faith in hope to begin with and continue in faith in this hope as evidence of our faith in God according to His Word.
Imagine Jesus stretches a tight rope across the Grand Canyon and walks on it back and forth twenty times.
You are watching and He comes to you to ask you a question.
He asks you, do you believe I can do it again.
Like many we believe Jesus can do anything. You watched Him do it twenty times. You would say yes.
This is not good enough faith for Jesus. He looks to you and says, if you believe, hop on my back.
The work we must do is trust the Lord to save you. Come to peace in believing through chastisement in faith. Receive it as a Son in hope if the promise He gives us in eternal life with Him. You will come to know Him. You will know His voice, and He will know your name.
It wasn’t that you preached in His name, cast out demons in His name, did many wonderful works in His name. It wasn’t your works that saved you. This is workers of iniquity, false prophets.
The works are a result of salvation, not for it.
Believe in Jesus!
@@ProclaimeroftheGospelofJesus Yes, believe in Jesus Christ! Believe Jesus Christ when He teaches we must repent and obey the commandments and bear fruit and forgive others in order to be forgiven and we must love one another and perservere to the end!! Believe Jesus Christ! Faith alone is a man made tradition not found in Holy Scripture, or the Church authority that existed way before the new testament was even written! We must cooperate with God's saving grace! For it is by WORKS and NOT BY FAITH ALONE THAT WE ARE JUSTIFIED, for even if one has ALL FAITH, but does not love, it is useless, as the Son of Man shall give to each according to one's WORKS, or LACK of WORKS. You are in my prayers as you journey toward Truth! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is True food and Blood True drink
Matthew Broderick
your works are as filthy rags to God. I am praying for you if you believe you are justified by your works.
We are only justified by the blood of the Lamb and the works we have in faith, work through love, not a debt. Jesus paid our debt in full.
We have works because of what Jesus already accomplished in justification and sanctification.
Not for it, but a result of what we received already and confirmed in the blood of Jesus.
We have faith to hope for and we have faith we believed and received that is evident in works.
Are we saved by our works? No never. Do not make the cross of Jesus of no effect. No man will be bragging to God on what they accomplished to receive salvation.
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
What does it mean to be created in Christ Jesus.
Did we have to do works to be created in Him?
Or do we do works because we are created in Him.
Depending on how you answer this, determines if Jesus saved you, or do you think you can save yourself
Can any of our works create us in Jesus?
No never!
All our righteousness is as filthy rags to God.
We must believe what Jesus accomplished is the gift that creates us in Jesus Christ. We do works because of what was given to us already.
We are reborn in Jesus, we are born of the will of God that is made known when He gave of His only begotten Son.
We are born from above according to Gods will. John 6. Says Gods work is that we believe in Jesus.
I am not saved according to my works; but my faith is made evident and is a testimony of Jesus saving me, as seen through my works.
I am not saved according to my works but rather my faith in God to believe in Jesus.
See this takes the focus off of anything that promotes pride in ones self and shows a grateful thankful heart of servitude , because I owe all to Jesus for my salvation unto God. This produces works being created in Him. This work shows evidence of my faith in Him. My works are not perfect but my faith is being perfected in Him. So I repent and persevere in Him, not in my faith in my faith, nor in my works, but in Jesus.
this is the hardest thing for me to understand!!!!! im still confused about why he saves some but not others!!!! why am i having such a hard time comprehending this???
Isaiah 46:10
New International Version
10 I make known the end from the beginning,(A)
from ancient times,(B) what is still to come.(C)
I say, ‘My purpose will stand,(D)
and I will do all that I please.’
@@Monday2705 perfect explanation
@@Monday2705 "but the application of that salvation from sin is not applied until a person FREELY CHOOSES"
So, salvation is always dependant on a sovereign choice, not from God but from the mighty creature, right?
k c check L. Flowers channel on UA-cam Soteriolgy 101, he was a calvinist, and now explains all the verses calvinists use from the different perspective, god bless you.
@@bensdg1164 God has chosen to give salvation to people who humble themselves and believe. It was His choice. We are without excuse if we reject the gospel.
I guess the question is how do I get God to notice me and hope that I am one of his chosen????? i am really trying to get this!!!
Let's make it simple,as far as I can tell, elect and saved are the same thing. If you're saved, then you've been elected by God. Calvinism does not teach that someone desiring to be saved could possibly not be elect but rather if you desire to be saved you are the elect. The Holy Spirit gave you the desire. Hope this helps
@@Monday2705 Just to get this straight, EVERYONE deserves hell. We ALL fall short of the Glory of God. It is in God's sovereignty to save whom He will. He doesn't have to save anyone and He would be justified in doing so. Everyone would be damned to hell if God didn't intervene. You wouldn't even consider salvation, question your sin, or even have faith (which is a gift see Corinthians) if it were not for the work of the Holy Spirit. You are saved by God through Christ alone. Much love friend, maybe this helps. Jesus Christ is King
@@Monday2705 your understanding of reformed theology is tainted.
We are all worthy of hell, but God in his mercy , by no act of ours has chosen to show mercy to some ( rom 9:15) and simply leave some in their sin. Anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will find a perfect savior. No one in hell will be wondering why. God dams no one to hell, we all in our fallen state are running there.
@Wayne S If Christ died for the sins of the world, He fails in His redemptive plan as not everyone will be saved.
@Wayne S I think I did. If Christ paid for the sins of all people and only some "accept" that gift, then The atonement was not effectual or the whole world will be saved and we know universal salvation is not scriptual. I, on no why believe Christ's atonement was not effectual. I also do not see where scripture teaches a sinner has any part of their salvation.
Calvinism does not teach works are a necessity of salvation, what it teaches is works will always be a product of a saving faith. (eph 2:10)
Honestly, I had no idea
what calvinism was untill I started questioning what I was being taught in an arminian church. Refomed theology is the only way I have seen that gives God all the glory.
All the best!
How sad I am to have not been elected for salvation.It does explain why even after professing Christianity over 40 years ago and not bearing fruit,all of my pleading with God has not changed this.
I have heard differences about this as far as if God hates is or actually loves us so much it's only fair he sends us to Hell
Brother God’s Spirit in us cry’s out Abba Father and it sounds like you have done this. You do not have to be perfect and the fruit God gives is not always what we expect it to be. This desire you have to be elect. Where does this desire come from? Certainly not someone who hates God. It sounds to me like you are of God.
Brother, Someone who isn't elect doesn't acknowledge the Lord God! Their hearts have been harden given eyes that do not see and ears that do not hear.
Dwell in His word and pray for wisdom
So God set apart certain people to go to hell and even if given the truth of the gospel they will still deny it because God hardened their hearts? I just want to understand that part right so I’m that case why evangelize to them?
if you read Romans 9 and 10 Paul explicity address it to the Jews.
If you read the 1st 4 book of the OT the "Elect" explicity address to the Jews. Wherein, the body of Christ where elect if their "In Christ."
what an idiotic strawman you're desperate 😅😅😅
What would be the purpose of Jesus going to preach to those who died in the flood just after his crucifixion but prior to his resurrection. They were already dead and sum would be pre-chosen and some would pre-condemned. There would be no need to go and preach to the souls of the dead
A very good point.
OT people were saved by the same free grace, they were counted righteous by believing in what was to come.
@@dfischer1709 That literally makes zero sense and not backed up by scripture at all. And to clarify Im not talking about OT believing hebrews. Im talking about the same ppl that God himself said he regretted creating. The evil millions and millions of people who were so wicked God wiped them from existence. Christ preached to them during his 3 days after crucifixion. Why would he do that if there is predestination?????
@@lukecc1097 1peter 3:19 also supported by col 2:14-15 refers to demons or spirits that were bound in the abyss. Not human souls) Jesus informed them dispite His death He had triumphed over them.Spirits in prison refers to fallen angels. Who are bound in the abyss but in the end will all be sent to eternal fire. matt 25:41, rev 20:10.
@@dfischer1709 That also makes no sense. It specifically states the spirit's from the time of Noah. Demons existed eons before the time of Noah. No one even knows when the fall happened and when the fallen angels were cast out after lucifers rebellion. The spirits referenced are for those who were alive during the time of Noah. Im not saying he went there to offer salvation. There is no mention of that. But Christ did go there and he did speak to them
Predestination and where?
Destination:the place to which someone or something is going or being sent.
I tell you it is the presence of God, in fact, the same place that God put us in the beginning, the Garden.
Is the Garden not exactly what is described here?
Revelation 21
King James Version
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
So yes, predestination is an ordination decreed to us by God before the world began, pre-world: predestination.
Yet predestination is much more than where we we are TO end up but we are also predestined to be conformed to His Son, and as we know, it is only through His Son that we can come into the presence of God.
STOP USING THE WISDOM OF MAN TO UNDERSTAND THE DEEPER THINGS OF GOD.
1 Corinthians 2:10-14 (KJV) But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Hi, I know I’m a nobody but I need some answers to some big questions. Is there someone there that can contact me ? I haven’t found answers yet :(
Bradley S. My question is ... I was viciously abused by a parent from 8-13 then at 14 started having children. I had 5 amazing success children. Then found the man of my dreams and we married. I had to have treatment for cancer 3 months later. Then a few more chronic illness that I deal with today. 6 months ago due to a medical error or laziness my husband died. Now I sit here And wonder why my entire life has been riddled with grief and sadness. I lay here now unable to move because of my illness. Where is my glory and my goodness. I know I probably sound so awful. I’m just struggling so much. I suffer from ptsd anxiety depression. I just don’t know how to break this terrible cycle. I have a hard time believing a fair and good God will not help. Please don’t be mean I just need some understanding. Some direction.
@@KimOldfieldRealtor So sorry to hear about your husband passing away and the suffering you went through. Know this, Kim, that God that created all things knows what you are going through and feels your pain, as He Himself became human 2000 years ago to go through suffering for us and to carry our sorrows and griefs on the cross. Isaiah 53 describes our Lord in this way, hundreds of years before He came to earth:
Isaiah 53:3-5 "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."
He cares, Kim and knows what you're feeling. God created humans in His own image and gave them the ability to choose whom they will serve. When the devil tempted Eve in the garden, humanity chose to serve themselves and thereby serve the devil and sin and death came into God's creation. That is why there is pain and death and suffering all around us today. God will restore all things when He returns back, but because He is longsuffering He waits for people to repent and come to Him to be saved, to believe on His Son the Lord Jesus Christ who died, was buried and rose again for our sins. He promises that whosoever believes on Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Trust on the Lord Jesus, Kim, this life is hard and it's sad to see the consequences of sin everywhere we look. But know that those that trust on Jesus our Lord have great future in front of them. God will wipe away every tear, our Father in heaven will greet us into His everlasting Kingdom when His Son Lord Jesus comes back to take back what belongs to Him. Apostle Paul writes this to believers in Christ:
Romans 8:18: "For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us."
I pray this encourages you and help you to know the true and living God. Read His word to know who He is, pray and seek Him, do not trust what people say about Him, but get to know Him yourself. He is our Comforter. Jesus lives today and wants you to come to Him.
Matthew 11:28-30: "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."
@@KimOldfieldRealtor Just give your life to God Thru Jesus Christ and be saved and make sure your kids read the Bible! You'll have eternal life, things would be different!! Trust the Lord!! This life is not easy!! God Bless!!
Yes, God is sovereign! Amen. But who are you to say what God can or cannot do? His sovereignty does not seek your definition. It is summed up in, "I AM that I AM." Who are you to put God in your systematic box? The story of humanity in the Bible is all about free will. It started with Eve and ends with those who choose to receive the mark of the beast and those who do not. The Bible is a documentary on choices. That is because free will is part of the plan of the great I AM.
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC Absolutely! As a sovereign God he chose to give humanity a free will to choose or reject Him. He did that because He can do as He wills.
We have to be careful of traditions and look at what the Bible actually says