Answering Objections To Calvinism w/Jeff Durbin
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Watch the new message from Pastor Jeff Durbin at Apologia Church. Pastor Jeff taught this message for our series on the Doctrines of Grace/the Five Points of Calvinism. We worked through TULIP (the videos are on this channel as recent videos) and now we have two messages on objections to Calvinism. Dr. White taught his message responding to the "contrary" biblical texts that are most often used to "refute" Calvinism here: • Answering Objections T...
Pastor Jeff deals with the other emotional, methodological, and philosophical objections this Sunday. We pray that this series has been a blessing to you and we encourage you to tell someone about it!
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It's pretty simple, Jesus said it 2 times in John....NO MAN can come to Jesus unless the Father draw him.
And if you haven't done so already, then check the meaning of the Greek word translated as "draw". Suffice to say that it isn't describing a gentle wooing.
It says no one “can” come unless drawn. It does not say “will come” John 12:32 says all are drawn.
God draws all men.
You have to place your faith in the word of God for salvation. God doesn't do it for you.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
@@mitchellc4
Hebrews ch1:
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"... *"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever"*
*THE FATHER in hebrews 1 said JESUS IS GOD.*
John ch2vs19:
"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
Jesus rose himself from the dead, The father also raised Jesus from the dead, The Holy Spirit also raised Jesus from the dead.
The YHWH, these 3 are 1 raised Jesus from the dead.
Jesus rose himself from the dead. So obviously he was fully man and dead, and also fully God and had life within himself.
At about 20:00, he quotes, "but by that faith which God has justified ALL men", but glides past it. This is why I do not like Calvinism. I agree with many points, but believe it is perfectly in line with God's will for ANY who choose to respond to the Spirit's call to be saved. The Bible says that "God is not willing for ANY to perish, but that all should reach repentance."
You are right as far as those who respond being saved. Faith is the method God uses to call us….and there is no choosing to respond or not respond when it happens. Jesus makes that clear in John 10 and Paul does the same in Romans 8. As for the verse you quoted that is a verse that is used out of context super frequently. It’s part of 2 Peter 3:9 while Peter is speaking to believers and is referring to the elect who have not yet heard and believed as Peter says that God is patient toward YOU….not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. You could also check out Matthew 24. Jesus talks about the days of the tribulation being shortened for the sake of the elect
I can't even describe to you the difference between listening to someone preach the Word over and over and over when I was young and had NO ears to hear at that time, and today being multiple years into HAVING ears to hear this SAME WORD by God's grace. It absolutely ASTOUNDS ME every single time I hear the Scripture preached now when I think back to those days of blindness and NO understanding.
The same exact experience here. I've been amazed at the very same thing. It just goes to show you that it's the Lord changing our hearts and giving us ears to hear and eyes to see. Praise Him.
@@taylor-bh8re Amen! All glory to God!
Apparently ur ears can't The Word Of God aka Jesus Christ over the Calvinist satanic heresy of the tyrannical geneva cess pool. We pray for thee, these men are liars...but it doesn't matter, your already predestined so if u end up in hell you'll at least get to See God the Father cast u out...for no choice other than his glory. I dont see "gospel or grace" in the bible.
Same my friend! As a kid I was very bored at the reading of the word, and ne and my family went to a more charismatic church because of friends being there, and a while back my eyes and ears were opened and i went to a baptist church near me with other friends and now that is all i want is the scripture being read and explained✝️
It is Amazing the work Jesus does in us making us alive to God.
Wow thank you Jeff for putting that across so clearly. We are saved by Grace not by works. Humility knowing God chose us.
faith without works is dead. "This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus" Rev 14:12. Gods commands are eternal and it is a sign between him and his people.
Anthony Isreal rabbi!!! have you brought the good news of racist black Jesus again???
Anthony Isreal your embarrassing yourself. 🤣🤣🤣
Anthony Isreal (Anthony 2:25) and black Jesus said “you heard it was said go and preach the Good news to all nations, but I say to you, I am a black racist and I have only came to save other black people....and huh darker skinned races like Mexican and Indians, if they are dark, not the fair skinned ones. Go therefore, and tell all white people who have not sun bathed that they are going to hell”.
Anthony Isreal .....LEVITICUS 18:21
You shall not give any of your children to offer them to Molech, and so profane the name of your God: I am the LORD.
LEVITICUS 18:29 For everyone who does any of these abominations, the persons who do them shall be cut off from among their people.
I wonder if it is even possible to research what “ethnic Israelites” from exactly which of the 12 tribes,have been “cut off from among their people” because of God’s promises in generations past?
I think it is safe to say that at least one household from among each tribe.....which says something about the families from those households following forward to now.....
How do You know whether or not one of Your direct ancestors profaned the name of God.....and was cut off from amongst God’s people 2700 years ago?He and His household......meaning You and Your household......See there is only ONE WAY to get around the condition of ALL of humanity.....You are in the same boat as everyone else......CUT OFF from the people of GOD from birth.....The ONLY reconciliation to GOD is through the atoning blood of Jesus.
Not to be a jerk....but if the sacrifice of Israelite children is an offense that God takes so seriously as to cut off the Israelite offender from His people......There is a lot to consider on the topic of aborting masses of unborn children among the black community.....the statistics are a sobering reminder of just how “cut off” ALL generations must be.....I don’t think We want to really put any trust of faith in bloodlines......because the truth of the matter is all of humanity is cut off apart from Christ!
ANY time,ANY people claim special standing with God, that is based on ANY human quality or natural birth position.....The claim is NONSENSE and the system is false.
God does not need my permission to save me.
I know you aren’t saying it directly, but it seems like an echo of Jeff that non-calvinists do say this. But, who ever says that?
There is not one legitimate argument from a non-calvinist that assumes this or even implies it.
Truth!
@@ironlion805 "God will save you only if you are willing" is the common arminian thought
Repent & Believe in Jesus that is false. God saves those who trust and place their faith in him, those who repent and believe as the Bible teaches. It is entirely dependent on God’s gracious, redemptive work of the cross.
Apparently he does (if you follow pretty much any denomination other than Calvinism).
Calvinism denies that everyone has the opportunity to accept the Gospel, and therefore be saved. This means that God picks and chooses who to give the gift of Salvation to. If all simply don't have the opportunity to accept Christ, repent and accept the gift of Salvation, then that makes a mockery of Christ's death and resurrection. The fact that Calvinistic belief can be interpreted this way, and confounds the simplicity of the Gospel causing men to stumble, means by it's very nature it is a false teaching.
The discussion about how the gospel was proclaimed n Acts was helpful. Thanks!
I used to be a Calvinist until I realized it was bad theology backed by a philosophical system that doesn’t find its origin in scripture. Calvinist will try to argue from a place that makes “much of God”. However, if your theology isn’t right then you just misrepresenting God. Sovereign doesn’t mean what Calvinist define it to mean. Check a dictionary. Sovereign doesn’t mean determinism. This message only offends because it misrepresents the Lord. If it where true then so be it. However it’s not. This is all mans tradition and philosophy being placed on top of scripture. He misrepresents Election and predestination. I promise those who are listening to this that this man is confused.
So, by Jeff’s, and by extension Calvin’s, description of predestination, I should just not even bother to go out and share the Gospel with lost people. Because according to this theology, no amount of sharing the Word or evangelizing is gonna change their eternal destiny. It’s a fixed point in time. They are bound for Hell because God sovereignly decreed it.
Do we not see how completely against Scripture this doctrine is??
Calvinism simply strives to make plain the sovereignty of God and His singular role in the salvation of his anointed. It's a broad scale, macro view of the Church. At no point does Calvinism teach that evangelism isn't necessary for the salvation of the elect, or even that believers can know who is and isn't elect this side of heaven.
Don't get lost and start misrepresenting what's being said.
It's weird that Jeff talks of not preaching for mercy at the court room but that's exactly what the defense does when a guilty verdict is handed out. It's literally called falling on the mercy of the court. Lol. Bet his kids love the 100% JUSTICE Jeff gives and no mercy.
"human court" is what's in view there.
I am thankful for Apologia's work and there are many things I appreciate and thank God for in their teachins, however, revisiting this series after leaving the Calvinist perspective on soteriology, I can see one big hole in pastor Jeff's arguments here:
"Why does God save some and not all"
His response is that He is a God of love but also of justice, but the question here is: if a person didn't have the REAL, AUTHENTIC chance to repent, because he or she was a reprobate from the foundation of the world, how can their punishment be just?
If you were predestined to commit a crime and there was nothing you or anyone could do to stop you, can you REALLY, ACTUALLY be considered guilty? Responsible, perhaps, in the same way a domino is responsible for the fall of the next once it's been pushed, but not guilty in the sense of having decided REALLY to do the pushing.
According to Scripture, Cain COULD HAVE chosen not to sin, but he did it anyways, and by the way Scripture talks about him, he surely would be considered a reprobate, and yet, God talks to him as if he could've REALLY chosen not to sin.
I would love to read any Calvinist response to this, which to me is the single biggest logical problem with the view Pastor Jeff presents
Jeff, please address this comment: Here is absolute Biblical proof that God does NOT cause or determine everything; In Jeremiah 19:5 God says, “They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal-something I did NOT COMMAND or mention, nor did it enter my mind.” 2nd Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is…not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.” and yet, it also has Jesus saying, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction (hell) and many are on it, but straight and narrow is the road that leads to life (Heaven) and few ever find it."
Sadly, they will find a way to pervert every truth. It's like talking to a wall with the true believing Calvinist.
Literally, I've always said only god is 100% Free.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
Mitchell C “Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
Philippians 2:5-11
@@mitchellc4 Jesus said He & the Father were 1!(John 10:30)
Jesus said before Abraham was "I AM" (which is God's name) & the Jews tried to stone Him for blasphemy, they knew he was calling himself God. (John 8:58)
Only God gives life & Jesus raised people from the dead.
Only God is eternal yet Jesus said “Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was." (John 17:5)
Jesus said He laid down His life & picked it up again (John 10:17) He died to pay the penalty for the sins of His elect. Yet death could not hold him because HE IS GOD!
@@5ivepoints18
Jesus prays that believers be one with him and the Father in John 27, are believers God too then???
No Jesus didn’t use Exodus 3 in John 8
Jesus said before Abraham was born “ego eimi” which means I am he
Multiple people say ego eimi in the New Testament, but you’re not saying they are God?
The blind man who was healed said it
John 9
9 Some said, “It is he”; others said, “No, but he is like him.” He said, “I am the man.”
I am the man= ego eimi
The blind man just said ego eimi, did he just refer to Exodus and claim to be God?? Of course not
I believe in the Greek translation of Exodus it says
“Ego eimi HO ON”
Tell them “HO ON” has sent you (I Am has sent you)
Had Jesus said HO ON you may have a point, but he didn’t
Who is the God OF Jesus??
Eph 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
1 Pet 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
@@mitchellc4 what do you suppose is meant then by the phrase, before Abraham was I AM? Is he saying he was just a dude hanging out from all eternity?
No matter how hard I try, Calvinism just doesn't make sense to me. Okay I get that because of Adam and Eve, we were all born in sin. But I don't understand why because of that, some are predestined to hell regardless of what they do. I struggle with sin and I ask myself why is it that I can't get right with God even after I literally break down in tears for Him to change me. Concepts like this puts in my head (well maybe I'm predestined for hell) and if that's the case, why even bother with anything? How are we born with free will yet have no will to decide to follow Christ? So Satan was predestined to become evil and mislead all the nations and lead millions/billions of people to hell? I really want to understand
Tim if I could take a shot at answering your thoughts I would say that no one is predestined to hell. Man will naturally end up there because he loves his sin and doesn’t want God. God in His mercy decides to save some from the exact same group. As a result God will be praised for His justice but also His mercy. It’s interesting that no one ever objects to God choosing the nation of Israel. Because that actually means that all those surrounding groups of people did NOT receive His grace. I don’t believe the Amorites even received a single prophet.
As for your question about free will….we DO have freedom to make choices. But our will is in bondage and needs to be set free from sin. That’s the being born again Jesus is talking about and God was referring to in Ezekiel - the changing of a heart of stone and replacing it with a heart of flesh. Look idk your situation as far as your struggle with sin but if you hate your sin that’s a good sign God has begun a good work in you and Jesus gives IMO the greatest promise to us in John 6:37-40. If you’re troubled I would strongly encourage you to go through John 6, read it straight through so you truly get the context and then go back and meditate on 6:37
I'm sorry but I find it hilarious that Jeff got a tattoo of someone who's absolutely NOT a Calvinist. If you read an significant amount of Athanasius writings, it's completely obvious.
The term "doctrines of grace" is not in the Bible. There is only one doctrine of grace. Interesting to hear you define the sovereignty of God. God is sovereign whether he allows his image bearers to willingly respond to the Holy Spirit or not. Don't try to put God in a systematic box. It is presumptuous to do so.
I don't kick Calvinists out of the kingdom, as they so often do to me.
But when a preacher says God doesn't love everyone. I don't understand how they can be saved with such a wicked idea.
“The boastful cannot stand in Your presence; You hate all evildoers. You destroy those who tell lies; the Lord abhors a man of bloodshed and treachery.”
Psalms 5:5-6
“The Lord examines the righteous and the wicked. He hates the lover of violence. He will rain burning coals and sulfur on the wicked; a scorching wind will be their portion.”
Psalms 11:5-6
How many times does the Bible have to say it for it to be true ?
Just once right?
I'm currently not a calvinism, but the Bible says that God hated Esau.
Check Romans 9:13-15
The Bible mentions many types of people that God hates.. see psalm 5:5-6 & 6:16-19.
I'm not trying to pick a fight, but the Bible consistently teaches that God is not ALL loving, though God is love.
God is love, simply meaning He is the true essence of all that constitutes true love, which is why the Bible lists many things that He hates, which are all things that are in opposition to Him.
@jamestiffany3531 Are you interested in hearing the non-calvinist/historically prominent interpretation of those verses?
I am aware of those passages, but I am trying not to have online theological discussions unless both parties are in, "Iron Sharpens Iron" mode.
@@travissharon1536 Hey friend, sorry I just now got back..
Busy week.
I'm down for that man.
If your interested in taking the convo elsewhere so we can go into depth let me know.
@@travissharon1536 That is emotional. There are different types of love. T
By Jeff's logic, the variety of preaching to non-Believers we do in the modern era should not be conducted either (e.g., standing outside Abortion clinics to convince mothers not to kill their children, defending the Triune nature of God, etc. because the Apostles never did that sort of work in the NT). This is backwards rationale.
Yes, the Bible and the Gospel are the only true, infallible, authority; Sola Scriptura accounts for the notion that the church can err (see Anthony Lane's "A Pathway into the Holy Scripture, pg 324). However, to take this to imply that there is zero authority or doctrinal announcements within the Church is false (Sola Scriptura simply identifies that the Church can ascribe false/incorrect Rites, Ceremonies, etc. because it is fallible unlike the Gospel); as a result, if you're going to make an argument of "tell me where in the Bible it says X" you're going to (A) find that Scripture does not account for every single account/item you will ever run into as a believer and (B) your practicing of Christianity should be far more restrictive (e.g., no Church Calendar, no vows at weddings, you'd have to explain why you choose to worship on a specific day, no guitars or modern instruments at Worship, the order of prayer, etc.).
I see this same line of logic with silly items like celebrating Christmas and Easter (Easter specifically, not calling it Resurrection Sunday). If you apply the "Show me in the Bible where the Apostles/Jesus celebrated/said to Celebrate Christmas and/or Easter" this makes a rather poor argument.
This is also neglecting the very logic, rationale, and emphatic message in Christ's ministry, crucifixion, and resurrection. Jeff's very notion of not being able to go up to people on the streets and say "Jesus loves you" flies in the face of John 3: 16-17 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him." We know that the exact sentiment of Christ's death and resurrection comes from Love, merciful, sacrificial, supreme Love. Christ came to save, and save those who were unworthy of it.
"All evangellyfish" AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHHHAAAAA!!!!!!!!
Me too. 🤣
These people in apologia studios are nuts. They have been deeply deceived by the enemy into this calvinism nonsense. For those who think they can debate, try doing it WITHOUT inserting your own interpretation of scripture. Calvinists love to quote verses like God creating evil, God hated Esau.before he was born etc and will tell you that's clear as day but then will be a hypocrite and try to wiggle around trying to explain in a complicated way with adding their own meanings with verses like God so loved the WORLD that WHOEVER believes in him shall NOT perish, or God's NOT WILLING that ANY should perish but ALL come to repentance, or when God said hell was prepared for the DEVIL and his ANGELS etc. If you're a calvinist and my comment is pissing you off, just ask yourself, am I saved? How do you really know? After all, calvinists believe that God purposely makes some believe they're saved but they're really not and it's all somehow for his glory lol (nothing glorious about that btw) and if that's the case, how do you know YOU'RE not one of those people??? You don't know and never truly will till you die and by then, well, if you're up in flames, just remember, God wanted that for you, according to your beliefs and that's to glorify him so don't scream and cry in torment, rejoice because you're bringing God glory. Smh common sense is a thing of the past 💯 calvinism is part of the doctrines of devils that Jesus said will come forth in the last days and even the ELECT can be deceived. Wake up people, read your bible people and stop buying into man's flawed ideas and use wisdom and discernment from the holy spirit who will guide you. The nonsense needs to stop. The enemy loves calvinism because it takes the focus off of him and puts it on God. Satan's greatest trick was convincing he didn't exist. I'd say his second greatest trick was convincing man he's not evil and that God is because he's supposedly forcing everything that happens, even the most horrendous evil things in this world and somehow that's good, aka calvinism.
ua-cam.com/users/shorts-gkoxvYihFg?feature=share
Despise Calvinism and people that endorse and preach that theology
Love your brothers
Why?
So you hate your brothers and sisters in Christ just because they hold to a different soteriology than you?
Yeah they are heretics. Devilish people who take away a normal person's ability to choose to get saved!!!!
Leighton's response... ua-cam.com/video/Fpid69LCQxE/v-deo.html
Damn, you really had to go a destroy everything I’ve been taught since childhood 😰
Don’t go to Bible school folks, you think you’re going there for answers but really you just leave with more questions.
Especially when most of your professors will be not be calvinists.
5 reasons I'm not a Calvinist. Could you search that title on UA-cam and tell me what you think?
Pastor Jeff,
I have heard your testimony in messages past. We have a similar testimony in that our understanding has come from the word of God alone. I never read anything from any theologians for the first 15 years of my walk with Christ. My doctrine was formed by the Holy Spirit, through scripture alone. When I read my first book on theology, it was Systematic Theology by Wayne Grudem. I swore he stole my notes.
This series has been an absolute blessing. I thank the Lord Jesus for the call that he has placed upon you. Stay in the word my brother, and the word will come out of you. You are loved and sincerely appreciated. May the grace of God keep you on the path of righteousness, for His name sake! Psalm 1
the gospel is not a command. it is Good News. our RESPONCE is commanded
According to this guy we get no choice either way it goes.
Can't command when God forces you to either respond or not respond since Calvinist make him to be all sovereign to the point of making you do everything.
Repent and believe is not a command?
Its a suggestion? Or opinion?
Calvin was a man. He wasn't in the bible. And I do not follow the teachings of a man that isn't in our Bible. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to say it's all pre determined and "hello, I'm pastor such and such let me teach you the scripture". Why bother? What if God hasn't chose that person??
Jeff, just be honest, you were taught Calvinism at bible college... and had no alternative explanation.
Tell me, how was calvinism called before Calvin?
Truths about Gods saving work
@@jakubkrticka1040 At the beginning John Calvin was studying to be a catholic priest.
He was a literate person so he read alot and it included writings of Agustin.
I believe it was Agustin who wrote:
"On predestination of the saints"
I think you can find it online.
Therein was Calvins influence for his beliefs of Double Predestination.
If one wants to get rid of the goats in your church,feed them sheep food,they hate it.
It’s almost as if instead of a gracious God working in our lives to convict us and draw us to Himself in love, grace is this thing, this force that God uses to show off with by picking and choosing certain people to be saved while not choosing the rest and He’s doing all this because He has to show off how glorious He is.
I don’t see how you can believe this is something Jesus would do. You cannot look at the life and death of Jesus and come away thinking that this is something that he would do.
Jeremy Walker Jesus himself warned of the judgment.
@@Isaac-wl6wu that's right! But what is your point?
Romans 9:22-24.
Jeff Durbin quotes Athanasius as one of the great defenders of the faith, but Athanasius said, "humanity is free and under it's own power, having the capacity to choose for itself what it wants" I wonder what he would have said about Calvinism?
We have a creaturely freedom. Where does Athanasius indicate that he meant more than creaturely freedom?
None of the Church Fathers would have supported Calvinism.
@@brotheraugustine are you including Augustine in that number Brother Augustine?
Redtb3 Of course. Even his thoughts on predestination, which were nowhere near as extreme as Calvin’s, were never accepted by the rest of the Church.
@@brotheraugustine Great, go over to Soteriology 101's sight and explain that to Leighton Flower's. He seems to think everything he despises about Calvinism was due to Augustine.
Abso loved this. The power isn’t in us but in Him.
I’m not a postmill and I do believe in the doctrines of grace. I must whole heartedly disagree with Jeff the the millennial reign of Christ as a literal thousands years isn’t there in the word. You have to erase 6 mentions of it in Revelation 20 to get to where he is.
As a post mill to say that there will be more people saved also says that there are far more lost.
John3.16 means all sorts of people have been chosen
Not confined to one race
If all were chosen there should be no hell only heaven.
These guys are so inconsistent with their teachings. You 100% believe and accept the doctrines of Grace (TULIP), but then you’ll make numerous videos debating atheists. By your own logic, aren’t they atheists because they were predetermined? And if that’s true, why are you debating them?
We don’t know who is saved and who won’t be. Think of the apostle Paul. He persecuted the church yet Christ called him without Paul seeking Him. He looked like one who would never be saved.
@@danielwarton5343 lol what. Dont you know if you believe Jesus died for your sins you are sealed to the day of redemption?
@@snackpup I don’t understand how you got to ask the question you have. I haven’t said anything about what you’ve asked. I know I am sealed in Christ, by the Holy Spirit.
@@danielwarton5343 didn't you know paul had to respond to get his scales removed? didn't you know paul is an apostle?
do you believe Jesus died for the whole world?
do you believe Jesus died for the atheists in the first comment?
There are very simple refutations to Calvinism. One of them is John Calvin was born in the 16th century. What Calvinists are implicitly stating is that for thousands of years since Christ everyone did not fully receive the true Gospel.
Illogical.
I don’t think that’s fair. I think theology wise it differs from others, but what makes us Christians, the heaven or hell issues, is
1) is Jesus God?
2) Did Jesus die on our behalf?
3) was He resurrected?
4) is that all that we need to cover our sins?
5) what should we be doing if we are Christians?
6) are we doing those things? If not can we still call ourselves Christians by what the Bible says.
Regardless, denomination isn’t the point. It’s following Jesus, making disciples, loving God above all else, etc.
Nah.....You are misrepresenting the Reformed position.....Scripture has always been scripture.....the 1+ T.U.L.I.P. points were not discovered by Calvin.....They are all throughout scripture.....
What You have proposed as an “Illogical Calvinist claim”........is actually a terribly misinformed assertion on Your part.
@@ryanadams5719 ....I can't be "misrepresenting" something I am not presenting. Where in my post am I stating a "Reformed" doctrine? I am using simple logic to prove the "Gospel" of Calvinism is false. No one taught what Calvin taught before him which is why he is such a controversial figure.
You follow a man-Calvin. I follow the Lord Jesus Christ.
Merci Beaucoup .......The Sovereignty of the Creator...Yessir throughout scripture and in creation!
The depravity of all of natural born man....Yessir throughout scripture and in creation!
The election of the person & the will and purpose and pleasure of the sovereign Creator God being the sole condition.....Yessir throughout scripture!!!
Jesus ultimately dying for the redemption of those who inherit His Kingdom and WILL be clothed in His righteousness......Yessir throughout scripture!!!
The grace of God that only comes from His hand,that has NOTHING to do with my filthy rags,which is all I have to offer.....Yessir throughout scripture!!!
The hand of God that will suffer NO LOSS.....Yessir throughout scripture!!!
And my soul shall rejoice in the Lord;
It shall exult in His salvation!!!
@@mercibeaucoup2639 Amen!
The Basics:. Acts 16:31 "..Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (NOW!) and thou shalt be saved". Don't believe and you won't be. Why wouldn't the myriads of similar verses in the Bible not say "and those chosen to believe at creation will be saved"? Because it would be an accursed predestined different gospel! Those that do believe are predestined to be conformed to Christ's image. Believe and trust the Bible, not men!
Lol in the calvinists view God was wasting his breath in those verses 😅. You know they would say something crazy like that
Bro Leighton coming after ya’ll
12 hour video for sure.
Bro Leighton has nothing to worry about with this convoluted nonsense
@@davidallin6909 ua-cam.com/video/CGoOT9edNIw/v-deo.html
I truly hope to visit you and your church some day
im a bit confused. for example, if God predestined me to NOT be saved then i am powerless to change that, right???? ultimately then my choices are meaningless because from the moment i was born, God had already decided what the outcome of my life would be???? i can follow everything else that you say but i get jammed up by this one all the time!!!!!!
k c but the person in your example wouldn't ever care. The natural man never seeks God and only sins by nature. You're thinking about it from your viewpoint and you care! The sinners, by nature, don't seek God. If ANYONE cares, they are being drawn and they can come and eventually will. Predestination really isn't unfair, it's more than anyone deserves. Fair is all go to hell. The question is why does He choose any. Both choices by God are to display His mercy and justice. To show all His power on both sides. Please don't feel bad for the villains/goats in the story. Just be thankful you are a sheep.
It should give you a sense of peace and security that you don’t have to merit or work up to God. You’ll naturally want to be with him when you understand his love for you and how perfect his grace is in saving you. You can’t fail and that gives you security. If salvation depended on your mindset or inclination of any type of belief then you’re essentially admitting that you’re the sail that ultimately decides your destination. If Arminianism is true then Gods grace is not the final say in what happens, it’s what you decide. Can you understand the implications of that view?
Think about Gods sovereignty another way. If you had a kid who didn’t listen to you about crossing the street and not looking both ways, are you going to be indifferent and say “well I have to give my kid the choice to be free to show love”. No you care about your child’s wellbeing beyond your kids attitude. You force him out of harms way because you care. Likewise God forces people to his call because he cares about his children’s well-being. Ultimately if Arminianism is true then God has to be indifferent enough to people to allow them for destruction, and that wouldn’t be loving. People get this distorted view of love that love has to have free will but it isn’t accurate in context of God between man. It applies when it’s human to human like one couple has to respect and allow each other to freely love because they arent owned by anyone. But God owns all. He has every right to decide who he chooses if he created us. By this we cannot boast about our merit or abilities to choose God because the glory and all the credit goes to him. If you attributed any reason for God loving you then that reason becomes the foundation of his love for you, thereby being conditional love. God loving you because you chose him is conditional. If God loves simply because he loves then it’s unconditional and doesn’t change no matter what. As humans are we may think it that makes a God arbitrary because we are not thinking in an infinite being perspective. We always have reasons behind our actions and thinking, but to an infinite being like God he doesn’t have an explanation to his character. He loves because he loves not based on what you think or do.
He doesn’t love everyone though, only his children which we see in scripture when he refers to us as his sheep. That implies there are some that are not his sheep and especially when the verse that says “lord lord did we not prophesy in your name? And Jesus says I never knew you”. So once you’re secure in knowing God, then you should be relieved in that nothing in the entire universe can separate you from him even yourself. And this should not inspire pride or elitism because again we are nothing special in of ourselves but completely due to Gods grace and sovereignty
That’s because it’s false doctrine based on John Calvin. Not taught at all by the church fathers. God draws all to him. He calls to us first. At that point we either accept his grace or resist it. Calvinists ignore this even though it’s scripture. God predestines no one to hell. God predestines no one to unbelief. That would remove his attribute of love. Do not buy into Calvinism. God loves you and wants you to choose him, so accept his calling and grace by believing in Jesus Christ. Faith is not a works.
k c: In confirmation of what awaken4Jesus and Tim Yang wrote regarding your questions and in contrast to King Attila's reply to you, please carefully consider the following words from Paul to the Romans:
“For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.” (Romans 9:15-16)
“But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory- even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?” (Romans 9:20-24)
► _Please Note: It's always advisable to read any quoted verses in their proper context._ _Regarding these verses, all of Romans 8 and 9 are a good start_ .
@@kingattila506 Actually the doctrine of what is known Calvinism goes back to Augustine who had a great influence on Calvin and Luther
So … God predetermined some to go to hell? They have no chance for salvation? God chose people to go to hell and then he judges THEM for it . What a false gospel to say that God would send some to hell by choice so that he would get glory. Such a false doctrine . Jesus died once for All the scripture says this . Not just for some that he hand picked . Shame on these people for teaching this . The Bible says whosoever will let him come and drink of the water of life freely! Not all will. Faith is not a work . The works of the law and faith are contrasted in Romans . They are no the same . The grace of God is that salvation is given through faith . Faith is not the gift .
Yes, it is a wicked doctrine to teach that Jesus did not die for everyone, to say he only died for a privileged group who call themselves the chosen.
They even teach that God makes some people believe they are saved, but will send them to the lake of fire forever for rejecting the gospel. How are they rejecting something that is not offered to them.
There is much they teach that is heretical.
I do have to correct you on one thing.
Galatians 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
----
The faith of Jesus is given to them that believe.
It is Jesus faith that saves.
Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
----
Believe means to be convinced, while faith means assurance.
It is Jesus faith that assures the believer that their sins are forgiven, and have eternal life.
Those who come to repentance and believe the gospel are given, and indwelled with the living faith of Jesus Christ the Righteous One.
Faith is the fruit of the Holy Spirit, which comes after a person has come to repentance and believed the gospel.
Calvanism teaches it comes before repentance and believing the gospel.
Galatians 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Hebrews 12:2
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
-----
Salvation is forever, because the faith of Jesus will never fail.
That is why true Christian faith stands far above all other faiths. Their faith comes from within themselves, true Christian faith comes into the true born again believer., through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
There are no verses in the Bible of God predestining people to go to hell , but many verses state sinners choose to reject God and by their choice will be cast into the lake of fire. But numerous scriptures teach that God predetermines certain individuals to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, be Called,justified ,and glorified. And numerous scriptures refer to believers in Christ being chosen Mat 24:22,31, Mark 13:20,27, Rom 8:33, 9:11, 11:5-7,28, Eph 1:1-11, Col 3:12, 1 Thess 1:4, 1 Tim 5:21 ,2 Tim 2:10, Tit 1:1 , 1 Pet 1:1-2, 2:9, 2 Pet 1:10. Scripture clearly teaches God chooses some and not others. We in our fallen nature think God is unfair . In revelations when it’s all done the angels praise God and shout His judgements are Just.
I wish Calvinists would be honest and preach their "gospel" as openly in public as they do from their pulpits.
"God probably doesn't love you and Jesus probably didn't die for your sins! And if you hate God, its because He sovereignly and salvifically hated you first!"
Go preach that. Go call that "good news".
We don’t know who is saved until we preach. Those who are elect will accept the grace given to them. I never preach Jesus loves you and wants you to know Him. I preach Christ crucified and our need for a saviour
@@danielwarton5343 but Jesus does love and wants you to know him
Thank you guys for doing this very controversial subject. I have been challenged, confronted with my own traditions, liberated in areas, and able to see the beauty of these truths by you boldness and humility. I am a associate pastor in a charismatic church and so loved by God’s grace in salvation and His sovereignty. Thank you for what you do and keep preaching truth!
"Next challenge, if God has chosen who He will save, that means some of my loved ones will be passed over and are going to hell." And his answer, after about five minutes of sophistry and pious-sounding words, boils down to essentially "Yes they are. Frankly that's just too bad if you don't like it, but you'd *better* say God is good and just to do that."
As Paul says in Romans, who are you oh man to say to the potter “ why have you formed me this way?”.
@@gch8810 Look, I know you mean well, and I probably shouldn't have left such a snarky comment, but I'm honestly at a point where I don't really care about arguing with determinists anymore. If this is the truth of who God is, then I am out. I'm with Derek Webb and Megan Phelps. I *refuse* to worship a God who does this to people, and that is that. There is nothing you can say, no verse plucked out of its context you can fling at me, that will change my mind. If you believe determinism is true, you should know that better than anybody else.
@@Emper0rH0rde they don't know how to become each vessel
Jeremiah 18
4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it
6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
So you see an evil vessel can be saved.
That is the gospel. For we all were evil vessels but we came to Jesus for salvation from our sins and he made us new.
It's always conditional. If we want God's mercy we must do it his way. By faith in Jesus that he died and rose again for our sins.
You choose what you do in life good or bad. But God always makes it bring him Glory.
Pharoah hardened his heart first. So God took advantage of that and brought himself glory through it.
There is no automatic salvation.
John 3:20
“For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.”
They did not reject Jesus because they were unable to. They rejected him because they did not want to be reproved.
There is no unrighteousness in God.
Jeremiah 19:5
King James Version
5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:
@@Emper0rH0rdeCalvinism is a false doctrine of demons don’t worry about it.
This is not Christianity, it’s a cult.
Calvinism is a false gospel and completely unbiblical.
Call upon the name of the Lord and be saved.
Read scripture for yourself and you won’t find any Calvinism.
One small logical error here: the statement that God does everything he pleases, on earth, does not imply that everything that *does* occur on Earth is of him doing what he pleases. It only necessitates a full exclusive relationship between TW God does and TW pleases him, which, abstractly, need not extend to everything that occurs anywhere. But, other places in Scripture do make the case for sovereignty.
Thank you. This jelped me and my questions alot.
Pastor MacArthur can go through scriptures and show a premillenist view & he doesn't rely on movies or dispensational sensationalism. I'm totally convinced by scripture of God's sovereignty, but not convinced at all with post mill eschatology. Yet I don't consider it a dividing point as some do in both camps which is unfortunate.
I agree. Post mill stretches scripture to make the point. Calvinism can be debate , although I do hold to the doctrines of grace. Post mill seems far more tenuous to arrive at if you take scripture literally.
In Matthew 24, Jesus mentions “to those in Judah” which as insignificant as it may seem, really pushed me towards Postmill….bevauee Jesus was talking to the crowd of that day specifically
@@jfast787 verse 21 of that chapter says that there will be a tribulation that is greater than the world has ever seen before. Do you believe in the global flood?
Verse 29 says that immediately after the tribulation that all the tribes of the earth will see the Son of man in the clouds and He will gather His elect. Do you think this happened after or at 70AD?
Verse 34 isn’t speaking of those who heard Jesus speak but to those who would see theses things happening.
@@danielwarton5343 This is tough, my mind says Premill, my heart wants postmill….I reread Matt 24 and am again unsure….the most important point is the Gospel of course, but this is still important.
@@jfast787 I know where you’re at. I’ve been mulling this over a lot lately. Most because I love James white, Jeff Durban and Joel Webbon who are all post-mill, and John Cooper ( Cooper stuff and Skillet). I really respect them and believe most of the what they teach.
I do love John MacArthur and Steve Lawson and I respect what they teach also and they hold to pre-mill.
I ended up having to put them all aside and just go by the Bible. I can see how certain verses can make pre-mill seem incorrect but overall it seems the most natural reading of the text. It was also held by the early church fathers up until Augustine brought in a new way of interpretation of the millennium.
I think that the argument for Revelation being written pre 70AD isn’t likely and that the things mentioned in Matthew 24 and Revelation that would have had to have happened clearly didn’t.
I can see the rapture being a bit more debatable about the timing but I really do see pre-mill as the strongest point in eschatology.
There are a couple of good round table discussions on UA-cam about eschatology. John Piper (not sure what I think to him now though) hosted one and one done by southern seminary (also have questions with them about CRT).
They do put forth good points for all three and you can hear them put side by side, discussed and debated.
It’s a topic we want to feel we’ve got right as there are consequences as to how we live and witness accordingly.
I hope I’ve not just harped on but been a little bit helpful.
So God chooses who he gives mercy to? Is that fair?
Fairness is why hell exists. You don't want fairness.
Yes it is fair. Because we are all guilty and do not deserve mercy.
Trey Thompson right but how is it fair for God to show mercy to some people and not others?
@@manuelramos5701 Let me change my response because after thinking about it it is not true. Fair is, we are all guilty and go spend eternity in hell. When a president gives a pardon to someone that is in prison , is it unfair that he didn't turn them all lose? No! Because they are still guilty.
The bible never claims God is 'fair'. American christianity does. Which is wrong. God is JUST. Just is far from the same thing as fair. Just means to give what is deserved. However, God will mercy whom He mercies and He will compassion those whom He compassions.
I haven't watched this video yet. I want to. I struggle with assurance because of my sinful conclusions and misunderstandings of the applications of the doctrines of grace. I fear that God would not save me because I'm not His elect or because of limited atonement. Would this video be helpful? Or does anyone know any resources that could help correctly understand the Gospel in light of these doctrines?
ua-cam.com/video/yVWNFMA59GY/v-deo.html
@@libertylogic6883 But the doctrine is biblical. The issue is my sinful perspective and misunderstanding. And I think that's what many people's issue is as well. I want to understand these doctrines in the correct light. Not with my futuristic and anxious mind.
Zack Kempf No sir. 1st Corinthians 9:27. Paul himself believed that he could become a castaway/reprobate (same Greek work used in Rom 1). Joshua 24:15 “CHOOSE this day who you will serve”. Love.
The doctrines of Grace doesn’t save in the first place anyway. Only God saves.
“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;”
(Ephesians 2:8 LSB)
“not of works, so that no one may boast.”
(Ephesians 2:9 LSB)
@@zackkempf2907 Believe in the finished work of Christ at the cross. Repent and be saved.
Praise God for Have Hunt's book "Calvinism What Love is This"?.
I'm also very grateful for the debate between Dave Hunt and James White.
If and when you read Roger Olson's, " _Against Calvinism,_ " as suggested here, please keep in mind that Dr. Olson has stated that he is not a biblical inerrantist, holding that he, among others, " _do not believe in plenary, detailed (biblical) inerrancy._ "
Source: www.patheos.com/blogs/rogereolson/2013/07/the-old-testament-and-contemporary-christian-ethics/#disqus_thread
Link to the article: www.patheos.com/blogs/rogereolson/2013/07/the-old-testament-and-contemporary-christian-ethics/
@c n b
Who was arguing or claiming any of this?
Big difference between all knowing and all controlling. ❤❤❤❤
I love pastor Durbin and love pastor MacArthur but I’m NO Calvinist AT ALL but it’s all good. Calvinism is just another division amongst Christians like all other denominations
You are commenting a lot on this video. You state that calvanism divides, but I see you dividing in this comment section.
God is 100% sovereign. Romans 9:15 "For He says to Moses: "I will show mercy to whom I may show mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I may have compassion."
The Watch Zealot commenting a lot Hahahaha wow 2 comments , sooooo mucH hahaahhaah
The Watch Zealot I also said that ALL denominations are for division. That’s all they’re for. We are all believers in Christ and that’s all that should matter
@@jennamarielovesjesus12 Hi Jenna, I'm sorry I didn't mean it like that. I just wanted to discuss. I reread you comment and now see what you meant.
The Watch Zealot No worries at all. Blessings to u in Jesus Name ✝️✝️✝️✝️
And btw Jeff, Leviticus 19:28. Just saying
I do not understand how a just God can choose at the beginning of time who’s gonna be saved and who’s gonna be lost and then turn around and punishing us if he’s already predestined it. I’ve never understood reformed theology. It literally means to improve on something to make it better. How can Gods gospel be improved?! If everything is already predestined then what is the point of reading our Bibles, going to church or anything else? I’m not asking to be argumentative. I’m asking because I genuinely don’t understand it. Thank you for your time and God bless!
One obvious reason would be that the christian loves God. Another is that we are commanded to. We are not robots, still God is King and Sovereign.
@@banzaiduck Apparently, God wasn't able to clearly define the Gospel until John Calvin came along, thousands of years after the Gospel had been doing its thing.
It's akin to Islam. "Wait, wait! here's an extra-biblical revelation that we need to staple on to the Gospel"
@@HiVisl dude, you need to gather more facts, there is none who belives that.
@@thefrontporchpulpit6197 Gods knowledge is based on his decree. Also Jesus is not an angel.
I agree. God decreeing evil before time, predestining every Sinful thought and action, and arbitrarily (not necessitated or based on any factor intrinsic to the person) selecting who He will give faith to and save and who He will pass over and who can never be saved, as unable, makes a mockery of God's justice and renders concepts like sin, justice, mercy, and faith meaningless or distorted. It also doesn't fit with scripture.
ebible.com/answers/19101
Jeff later in this teaching gives an enlightening exhortation to see that most people will be saved.
Its good cause he does seem to validate this by the "stars" and "sand" referrencing Abrahams decendants. This is good.
But Jeff says in that defense, "I have many stars and many sands of the seashore, what do you have?"
Well i have Matthew 7:13-14.
13Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it.
@30 First objection example: comparing an earthly judge to God. The job of the earthly judge is to provide justice according to the law. That's it. There is nothing else he is required to do. And since the earthly judge cannot apply the penalty to another - the one found guilty must pay the price himself. And chances are that after he has done his time he will return right back to the things that got him there in the first place. But even if he should be rehabilitated and begin doing 'good works' that will not accord him any favor when his time comes to stand before a holy God. The need for salvation from eternal death is so much more than this example can cover.
In the gospel however we have more good news than that for the guilty sinner; because in Jesus, His substitutionary atonement satisfies the justice of God so that by grace through faith, mercy CAN be extended to the guilty sinner who humbles himself before God and believes on the righteousness of Christ. And because the Law of Faith stands apart from the Law of Works (Rom 3:27), believing faith is not a meritorious 'good work' on the part of the sinner which obligates God in any way, but is the way God has determined the sinner will be saved.
Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life... (John 14:6) Sharing the gospel is the way a sinner is brought to Christ to hear the truth of what He has done; and by hearing humbly believe it so that he might be given repentance unto eternal life (Rom 10:17, Acts 11:18).
TULIP adds nothing to understanding this good news because the power of God unto salvation is also the power of God that will keep us (Rom 1:16, 1 Pet 1:5) - The Word of God (John 1).
"...humbles himself before God..." What is your reference for this?
@@OHBHGO Mat 18:4, 23:12; James 4:6,10; Isa 57:15 ...
@@robinq5511 Robin,
In Mt. 18:4, Jesus was talking to his disciples about the greatest in the kingdom, not salvation.
Mt. 23:12, read the entire context. Jesus is talking to His disciples and the crowd about the Pharisees. This is not a salvation text. It has more to do with their relationship with one another and their view of themselves.
James 4:6,10 Please read the entire chapter. The letter is written to the Christian. In ch.1:1-2; ch.2:1,5,14; ch.3:1; 4:1 carries this on by saying, "you" and confirms it in verse 11. So this humbling is for the Christian.
Again in Isa. 57:15, if you start with the paragraph in verse 14, it says, "...remove every obstacle from My people...". These are God's people who have the command to be humble; as a result, God dwells with them.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
@@OHBHGO Perhaps you will consider Jesus' parable about the Pharisee & the Publican (Luke 18:9-14)
That pulpit is awesome looking... almost as cool as JMac's pulpit.
The Good News is that Jesus died for the sins of all who Choose to accept through Freewill
Joshua 24:15
The Calvinist good news is, "jesus may or may not have died for you"
Somebody had to say it
Jesus definitely died for some & definitely did not die for others. There is no maybe. The gospel is that God made a way for sinners to be made righteous, not that we can choose Him as if He needed us
How does a dead, rebellious, sin-loving human suddenly choose God anyway??
@@5ivepoints18 how are we supposed to love God or anything for that matter without a choice?
@@5ivepoints18 while in the Navy, i met a couple sailors who had hit "Rock-bottom" in distinct manners, and began by searching out God. One of them was going to A.A. and had to accept a higher power (its step 2 or 3 of recovery i believe?) Ended up being saved.
He searched for a God(James 4:8)
and then chose to accept Jesus' sacrifice on the cross (Joshua 24:15)
Just because someone may be sinning, doesnt equate to them being happy, or at peace. Most will grow tried of the sinful life as they get older, run out of funds, get kicked out by their wife and lose their job, etc.... once man hits Rock Bottom, thats when they are no longer distracted, and may posture their hearts humbly, and genuinely search for God.
Need some clarification here. Isn't a strong basis of being a 5, 6(talked about here) or 7 (talked about by piper) point calvanist the idea of choice being: you always can do what you desire, but with no alternative choice?? In 1:05:00 or so it seems he talks about the gospel being the power that enables alternate choice, especially tied into the argument of why proclaim to those that have no ability to choose anything other than condemnation (non elect). This didn't make sense to me. On a separate note, I question the idea of most people being elect, as Isreal was just one, surrounded by many nations that weren't God's people, as well as the concept seems pretty contrary to Matthew 7:13-14 (LEB): “Enter through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it, 14 because narrow is the gate and constricted is the road that leads to life, and there are few who find it!" Appreciate you Durbin, just trying to work through all this.
Yes lord!
Reformed / Calvinism is a religion no different from Mormonism Seventh Day Adventistism and Jehovah Witnesses. All man made and man led. Just don't have a pope
Why do they keep producing these? There IS no legitimate, reasonable, or non-objectionable "answers" to Calvinism. I'm amazed that so many appear to not recognize the glaring issues. It's for you to figure out on your own.
Jeff that is the poorest excuses I've heard we didn't choose sin . Adam Eve chose for us
This sealed the deal for me. No more questions or objections to this or that. Scripture settles all if you truly have a love for Truth. Thank you Lord.
Honestly! I now personally refuse to be "no the fence" anymore about things very clearly decided on in the Bible. Be neutral for what?
@@emilywilson9632 What do you mean? Can you explain your thought please?
Certain scriptures do, but then you have to accept God made man to be a little cosmic play and when you sin, that too was predetermined by God. He cannot plan evil, that is against His nature. It's both Calvinism and Arminianism simultaneously.
@@theresa263Incorrect.
When it come to pre destination. In the scripture I believe that shows the foreknowledge of God. I believe if a person wants to be born again they willingly choose to be born again. The only thing we contribute to our salvation is our submission
Except our will is in bondage to sin. We are slaves who must be set free. Hearts of stone can’t change themselves into hearts of flesh. An outside force has to do that for us bud. Jesus explains that in John 3:8 and it’s also summed up in John 1:12-13
People are familiar with John 1:12 but verse 13 explains how it happened
Calvinism is absurd to me. *This concept only began 400 years ago. If I propose to someone, are they obligated to marry me? No. The person chooses to marry me or not. It's not Calvinism or Arminianism, it's both simultaneously. God is sovereign, but His power to also leave some things to our personal free will doesn't make Him any less powerful, it is simply His will and desire to do so, and demonstrates His loving character, to give us freedom.
@Rodrick Evans God created us to love him "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." And we were created in His image and likeness, so we have characteristics of God, including love, which God is. Proving to you how the love of God means he gives free will for his creation is another issue, and I don't know how to answer that. That depends what you personally view as loving. I think love includes giving others the choice to love me or not, not forced to. Forcing someone to love you is not loving, and therefore contrary to God's character.
The only inconsistent thing here seems to be that God is not the author of sin.
He's the ultimate cause of everything, so under such predeterministic view, he must be that as well.
There is a way that people are the author of sin and God is not, and there is a way that God is the author of sin and people are not.
@@raifbarrett6739 How?
@@krzyszwojciech Mens Rea is a term used in courts of Law. You can look it up, it’s very useful. All men have Mens Rea, or as the Bible puts it, they are rendered to be without defense because of their knowledge that what they are doing is evil, and make the evil choice to do it anyway. God does not make that choice, or any such choice, and He has no Mans Rea, because nothing that he has done is evil, and He has perfect knowledge of everything anyway, so it’s not like he could do something and not know that it was evil. He predetermines that that all evil choices and evil acts take place, and is justified in doing so, because He intends it for good, and has the power and knowledge to see to it that it not only results in good, but in the maximum good. He has decreed that it be for the praise of His glorious grace, and so it is.
@@krzyszwojciech The problem is that people look at things from a human perspective. The Bible is clear that it is perfectly just of God to predetermine evil acts and choices, and it is also clear that when a person sets out to make an evil choice or act, or try to bring such a thing about in someone else, or in the world at large, then such a thing would be very evil. That’s because God can and does make such things for good, but we cannot, as we lack the knowledge and power, and have been commanded not to, as it is not our place in God’s story.
@@raifbarrett6739 Intending good, yet effectively doing evil or setting up circumstances in such a way that the evil will happen inevitably through the hands of others (manipulation) is still equal to being the ultimate cause of that evil (especially in a fate-like reality).
You may theorize that God is justified in doing so, but he's still the author of sin. Even if he intended it for some presumably higher good, he caused it.
You could speculate that this it the best world that there could be and no alternative was possible. That doesn't change the fact that it was created with the evil in mind. There's no way around it.
Responsibility in the court of law is typically an argument from theists believing in an actual free will, but either way, it can be justified in deterministic-like world too.
And such deterministic world is harsh and unfair, but at least it's not intentionally so. If calvinists are right, the world is harsh and unfair by the intention of the one who created it. And I don't want to appeal to emotions, I just think calvinists should be honest with themselves - this is a cosmic horror scenario, even if for some it will be the eternity of bliss.
Love it!!!!
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
@@mitchellc4 so what about your claim I don't get is Jesus said in john 10 he lays his life willingly he has the power to take it up again. When you say He isnt God are you denying what Thomas said to him after he resurrected. He said to Christ my Lord and My God.
Or John 1 in the beginning was the word(Christ) the word was with God(father+Spirit) the word was God. Doesnt say Was a God.
WOW, seriously disappointing, jeff durban a calvanist, joins hands with white, what a shame, dr whites debates , he losses every one so bad. I think i would sooner be a catholic than become a 5 point calvanist. Sheesh
😅😅😅😅😅🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪😵🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤒
Excellent job, Jeff. Glory to God.
How many NAZIS do think God predestined to go to heaven?
JHON 5:25. HE , OUR LORD IS NOT TALKING ABOUT THE PHYSICAL BUT THE SPIRITUAL DEAD IN THIS VERSE. LAZARUS WAS NOT EVEN RAISD YET. OUR LORD SAID , THE HOUR IS COMING, AND NOW IS. Notice IN THE rest of this Chapter, He does talk about the physical.
It is fascinating to me that, because of his post mill, he can't run through Genesis 12 + 15 consistently. With the same text he will make one thing literal and another allegorical. That is fully revealed in this sermon.
I agree. I heard video Baucham (who I do respect) say that there’s no literal chain or literal dragon but there is a literal abyss all from the same passage in Revelation. They class it as apocalyptic literature but all that means is it is revealing. You have to undo the things that the book at Daniel got 100% right and if you wan to just make it allegory.
"They know the true God, but they don't want Him"
But why don't they want Him? Because they really choose not to want him, or because God decreed for them to be born "dead" and to never really have any meaningful choice whether to want Him or not?
"people do what they want, according to their will, coming from their nature"
So, just to be clear, you at least affirm their freedom in how to sin? Or is every sin also decreed by God? Is it my own choice whether to rob 7-eleven or a gas station across the street, or was it specifically decreed by God for me to rob a gas station?
Keep digging you are close to the truth
@@UNDESPUTEDchamp the truth is either here or there?
@@zzzubrrr your response is the living truth that you know God is true but you don't want him.
@@kaizze8777 another non-answer and, in addition, a red-herring comment.
Btw, your deduction skills are lacking. I'm undecided about Calvinism, but leaning more towards "provisionism" as that is the understanding i grew up with. I find Dr. White convincing on some points, but at the same time often misrepresenting, and thus not fully engaging with the opposite view.
So i asked serious questions about some behind the scenes stuff of what Jeff was saying. The first person gave me a non-answer. I replied accordingly.
They are both true. God has decreed everything. Yet people do what they want. Proverbs 16:4 and 9 speak on the subject.
Maybe also see 16:1, clearly God is sovereign.
I would love to see "REPENT" being preached to the lawless, godless savages who are tearing up cities right now. Doubly loud to the ones attacking police.
We deserve punishment but what makes me special? Why save me and not my friends? Paul said he wished he could be cut off himself to save his brethren. You can’t tell me that you follow Christ and have no empathy/sympathy for the lost. I don’t want anyone to burn forever. God takes no pleasure in destroying the wicked. If it were entirely up to God and man had no say then wouldn’t all be saved? Wouldn’t all repent and live?
“Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? says the Lord GOD: and not that he should turn from his ways, and live?”
Ezekiel 18:23
If it were up to God without election, He'd have justice.
But He has chosen for Himself a people: the Church
God is the potter & has the right to make some vessels for honorable use & some for dishonorable use, but all vessels will declare His glory in the end, either His justice in condemning sin or His gracious mercy in justification
John calvin and the calvinist had a guy burned at the stake for disagreeing with them. They don't care about the lost world
I Jeff’s videos popped up on my UA-cam and I love to see him giving the word to the Mormons I didn’t hear him say anything wrong buuuuut calvanism is wrong if you believe you don’t have free will and can’t loose salvation that’s wrong and for someone to say you study and consistency and you can preach that is not right at all.
Romans11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, [d]goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
This doesn’t mean we can’t have peace and assurance in our salvation, Gods Will is for us to have free will and not be robots. God chooses everyone but everyone doesn’t choose God.
When does your will become free?
We are all born under sin are we not? Therefore we are born slaves to sin, unable to please God or choose Him by ourselves. God chooses us & regenerates our ❤ which leads us to faith (read thru Romans 3 a few times real slow)
Ephesians 2:1-10!
Jesus said that all that the Father gave him he has not lost one.
Amen. Notice how no one deals with the passage you gave.
God bless.
If God’s grace is irresistible, then why did Satan and Adam sin?
Calvinism is a damning heresy
Exactly.
Ezekiel 28
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee
Satan was perfect. Yet resisted everything !!
Praise God for the faithful teaching of His Word! 🙌🏽
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
Mitchell C “Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
Philippians 2:5-11
Kyle harris
So you read that as
“God was in the form of God but God didn’t try to equal to God”
Mitchell C what does it mean too you that Jesus was in the form of God, and equal to God. Is Paul committing blasphemy? This couldn’t be more clear...It makes perfect sense if you worship the triune God of scripture.
What Bible does Jeff use?
God so loved the world that he gave his only Begotten Son that whosoever believes in him will have everlasting life.
Yup. The elect are the “whosoever”.
Whosoever = the elect
That verse says that anyone who actually believes in Jesus is saved. It says nothing, one way or the other, about how a person comes to that belief. It can be used as a "proof text" by both Calvinists and Arminians, which means it isn't a "proof text" for either.
One Of Many who are the ones who can believe? The ones the Father draws. The elect.
And the whosever in the Greek means the ones believing. Which is only the elect, because they are the ones the Father draws.
has not started and all ready got one thumbs down.
I really enjoyed this series on the doctrines of grace. Thank you Jeff and James for doing this. I am a 5 point Calvinist because of this series. It's biblical it's in Scripture. 😎🙏🔥
So is gouging out your eye if look at a woman with lust.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
Ms. Anthrope
What is unbiblical??
47:26 🙂 56:00 🙂 57:18 🙂 1:05:04 🙂 1:06:44 🙂
For those wanting to hear an intellectual & biblical opinion on the other side John Lennox writes a great book called determined to believe 😊
John Lennox is a brilliant man when it comes to the topic of evidential arguments for God, but his traditions cause Him to mishandle scripture when discussing the topic of soteriology.
You shoul watch the dividing line when they talk about that book
@@jtslev Seems like a bit of an ad hominem response. Couldn't I also say that Jeff Durbins traditions cause him to mishandle scripture when discussing the topic of soteriology?
DJB it’s called a vague claim, which is exactly what your initial post was. John Lennox is not known for his expertise in soteriology or even theology, for that matter. He’s known for being a great mathematician and apologist for the existence of God. Take that how you want to, but I’ve heard his exegesis of John 6, and it’s inconsistent with the whole of scripture and leaves you with more questions than it answers.
JT MULL that’s a fair response. But I just don’t think that because someone isn’t practised in the correct field that they can’t come with valid criticisms of a particular view. Again this feels like the argument from authority. I’m not trying to nit pick and it’s great that you’ve mentioned that you disagree with his exegesis of John 6 but I think there’s more to it than that :). Someone can still write an extremely well informed biblical book using authoritative theologians input which I’m sure someone like John Lennox has plenty of access to. You should give it a read 😊
Thank you so much!!!!!
Part 2 of how God doesn’t actually love but only those who are ontologically changed by his determining power...
everyone else, sorry, God hates you for reasons you’ll never know.
Calvinism is not the doctrine of grace, it is a terrible affront to the character and revealed will of God.
Agreed
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.” (Ephesians 1:3-6)
“For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.” (Ephesians 2:8-10)
“though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad-in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls- she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means!” (Romans 9:11-14)
► _Please Note: It's always advisable to read any quoted verses in their proper context_ .
It’s amazing that synergists seem to feel compelled to change the character of God, to “defend” Him, rather than praise Him for who He has revealed Himself to be in Scripture...
kbuzbee lol..so you agree with my initial assessment of Calvinism’s tenets. Sounds like Allah to me, not God revealed in Jesus Christ
eMI I love those scriptures. They speak of a God who is working out his plan for the people of God though Jesus Christ the Elected One. You’re absolutely correct, context is king and we should allow the text be our guide alone, reading it without our theological agenda over it
John 3:16 says, “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” Calvinism, however says this verse actually means: For God so loved the ones He chose, that He gave His only begotten Son, that those He chose WILL have everlasting life. 2nd Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is…not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.” Calvinism, however, says this verse actually means: The Lord is not willing that any of the ones He has chosen should perish, but that all of the ones He has chosen WILL come to repentance. John 1:29 says, “The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!” Calvinism, however says this verse actually means: The Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the few that God has chosen. 1ST John 19 says, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” Calvinism says, this verse really means, the ones He has chosen WILL confess their sins, and He is faithful and just to forgive them their sins and to cleanse them from all unrighteousness. Revelation 3:20 says, “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If ANYONE hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.” Calvinism says, this verse really means, “…when the one I have chosen hears my voice, he will open the door…” Joshua 24:15 says, “…choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve…But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” Calvinism, however says this verse actually means: There is no choice, rather, God will decide whether or not one will serve the Lord. Pastor Jeff, I have watched many of your videos of you witnessing to Mormons. You, over and over show them verses from the Bible that dispute their theology. The Mormons response is always, "But we believe that verse really means..." You rightly respond, "But that is not what the verse says." Are you as a Calvinist guilty of the same in the above verses? You often mention John 6:44 where Jesus says, “No one comes to me unless the Father draws him.” I agree, no one even considers Jesus unless the Father draws him. But I firmly believe based on scriptures like the ones above, that WHEN we are drawn to Christ, we are now in a position to say yes or no to Jesus. Joshua says, “…choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve…” AGAIN according to Calvinism, there is no choice to be made, God the Father has already determined it in eternity past. as for predestination, I have no problem with predestination based on foreknowledge.
“Preach a bold gospel with humility” Amen
Hey bro, Jesus loves you! Paul Washer said “hey that’s great, I love me too!” He explains the ramifications of that Jesus loves you type of insufficient preaching there’s no need for repentance just easy believism. The wonderful plan for your life could be a plan just like the Apostles experienced, martyrdom. Hey bro I thought you said Jesus loves me? Half a gospel is no gospel really. Great series, this really is helpful, I’m taking notes like crazy! Thanks and Soli Deo Gloria ✝️
He just got a new tattoo??? HhhMmMMm doesn’t it say in the Bible not to make any cuttings in ur flesh??????? A little confusing pastor
That's ok. Christianity is all about the cherry picking.
@@regenerated4life 👋👋 Howdy again.
Questionn Do you?
@@regenerated4life what about Matthew 5:17-20? While those quotes are somewhat vague and open to interpretation, in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus is very clear:
*_¹⁷Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets;_*_ I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. ¹⁸For truly I tell you, _*_until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law_*_ until everything is accomplished. _*_¹⁹Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven,_*_ but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. ²⁰For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven._
@@regenerated4life so, he fulfilled them. It said so right there in my quote at 17, but then went on to 18, 19, and 20, all of which explicitly contradict the idea that if he fulfills them, then you will not have to follow those laws.
It also makes no sense. Since when has a law been made null and void when someone failed to break it? Does the fact that Jesus never ate shellfish or pork, suddenly mean that these "unclean" animals are suddenly clean, and good to eat? Does Jesus having never worn a mixed blend of cotton and linen negate the reason for the law in the first place?
And if, somehow, this is the case, then why hold to the 10 Commandments? Shouldn't they have also been nullified? They are part of Mosaic Law also.
@@regenerated4life Matthew is the New Testament, and the words are unequivocal. To lay them aside is to cherry pick the Bible.
Do you have scripture that specifically declares the opposite to 5:18-20? Or have new laws simply been added to the list?
"How oft would I gathered thee as a hen gathereth her church, and thou wouldest not.
@@leebartoletti4651
Which disproves Calvinism.
@@evanu6579 not true.Jesus didn't say that He wouldn't save the children,just the the wicked pharasees were trying to keep them from coming to the one all the scriptures were telling about.Jesus was bringing judgment against the sons of the Devil masquerading as men of God.
@@CBALLEN
How often He would have, but they weren’t willing.
He’s speaking to Jerusalem. The children of Jerusalem are it’s inhabitants.
Read all of scripture to see that this is indeed what Jesus was saying. He’s not talking about little children and even if He was, you have to twist it to make their will irrelevant.
@@evanu6579 How many of those Children did He save after the ressurection,do you have that information?
@@evanu6579 was it you or someone else in the comments that claimed that God doesn't stop us from sinning?
I'm a staunch Calvinist Christian.
Sorry. But the Lord want every man became to arrepent and that's is his will 2 Peter 3:9, 1 John 2:2, Romans 5:18. I dont fallow Calvin or Armenia. I follow Christ. What are you going to do with the verses in the bible, that don't fit with calvinist doctric? . Don't tell to you congregation?
God never chooses whom he wants to save as calvinsm falsely claims. We're all sinners and have fallen short of the glory of God and that's why he sent his only begotten son to die for our sins.. To die for everyone who seeks salvation and kingdom of heaven. We're all created in the image of God with a free will to choose and God loves everyone, he wants everyone to be saved but you have to make the choice to believe and trust in Jesus. Predestination is a false doctrine from the pits of hell!
Which statement in this video did you disagree with & on what biblical basis? Give the time stamp.
@@Yesica1993 The idea that salvation has already been pre-determined meaning that since God is sovereign then he chooses those whom he wants to be saved. That's totally unbiblical as explained in my previous comment and that's what calvinsm is all about.
@@davidw.4524 a question: Do you believe that God is omniscient and created us all?
@@davidw.4524 yeh, let's just forget about ALL THE biblical proof for predestination that MANY solid teachers have given and let's ignore the fact that the Bible teaches predestination in so many places and even says the word several times. Let's forget all of that bc you feel it's wrong. You couldn't even give an example that the previous comment asked you to. Listen. It doesn't matter what your opinion is. It doesn't matter what my opinion is. What matters is what the Bible teaches and the rules God made. If that's unfair to you, take it up with God.
@@blarglemantheskeptic That's what I stated in my initial comment. I believe that without a doubt.
Did he say that God's justice only applies to people who end up in hell? If he did, he is dead wrong. Calvanism is confusion! God died for everyone, that is very clear in scripture. Btw, stick to the king james Bible people since God didn't make multiple versions of His Word
Authorized (King James) Version Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
LOL!
DO you think the KJV is what Jesus read from?? Yes there's 1 Bible in different translations but a translation is not a different transliteration. That is proven by the Dead Sea Scrolls
If all men got justice we'd all be in hell. The elect don't get justice, we get mercy by His grace through the blood of Christ!
Christ couldn't have died for all men in the same way or no one would end up in hell because they're would be no sin to condemn them for!
@@5ivepoints18 The only thing that's required of us in order to be saved is faith in Jesus.
Authorized (King James) Version 2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: and that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
Romans 5:1-18 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: by whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; and patience, experience; and experience, hope: and hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (for until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
@@5ivepoints18 and Jesus didn't ever need to read the Bible; He wrote it.
@@5ivepoints18 no. If they were predetermined to go to hell there can be no condemnation on them.
Condemnation only works with free will to choose what to do
God commands a person and our Calvinist buddies are clueless to what it means. If anyone asked Does God want me to obey him? Does God want me to sin? What do you tell a complete stranger? If God COMMANDS you to SIT DOWN does that mean God WANTS AND DESIRES for you to SIT DOWN?
That God loves us all equally and died for all equally and calls and invites all equally is implicit in the teachings of all the ancient Church's regarding the nature of God and Christ and the Cosmic scope of the Incarnation and Atonement of the Son and Word. There is nothing like limited atonement or the perseverance of the saints doctrines in the Church of the first three or four hundred years; these are 16th century fabrications that have to exist in order to support the presupposed hermeneutic of Calvin and Co's determinism. Even Augustine's late 4th, early 5th century double predestination and predeterminative thinking was never accepted / dogmatised in the Catholic church (though it heavily influenced it in parts) and his ideas about reprobation were actually condemned at the second council of Orange. I think everyone (Catholic or Protestant) who has been born anew by the Holy Spirit into Christ and has come to know the love of the Father, knows the absolute primacy of Grace in however we got to that point, and from that point on in our walk with Him. In light of certain Roman corruptions the doctrines of grace and the 5 "solas" were sincerely and slowly formulated. Unfortunately, throughout Church History, reactions to heretical ideas often end up being overreactions and fall into equal error in the other direction. "Calvinism" is clearly (of John Calvin's own admission) founded upon Augustinianism. Calvin added the novel "Perseverance of the Saints" / "Once saved always saved" doctrine which deviated massively from Augustine's view of persevearance.
Augustine would have held to one, possibly two of the TULIP but he would have rejected Sola Scriptura and the wayward determinism (meticulous) of John Calvin and Co later on it history. The post Apostolic era early Apostolic Church did not suddenly apostasize and then the truth was picked up (somehow) by Augustine and stuck on steroids at the Reformation; no, Augustine is the one who added novelties to the already existing view and consensus of the first three centuries regarding predestination and election. (via the influence of his fatalistic dualistic manichean past). That early consensus has also carried on down to this day in all the Eastern churches and in a majority of the Western ones too! X
Anyone save only by God mercy , without God mercy nobody can be save
Wicked as hell
Jeff said that God does not cause people to sin. People do what they want to do according to their nature. Here is my question. Was God the one who determined what kind of nature people have in the first place when He created them?
Adam Myers
God created Adam and Eve with a freewill. After their willful disobedience, they became sinners. All of Adam and Eve's children inherited the sinful nature. We sin because we're sinners by nature.
Deborah Dowden Yup, the default nature is God's image and likeness with a free will.
@Adam - You should read Romans 9. Paul addresses this and anticipates your response. Basically he would answer back, "Who are you, O man, to answer back to God?" Paul's words, not mine.
Read below for context.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump done vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory
Anthony Isreal
Keep reading down to Matthew 15:28 when Jesus says **”o woman, great is your faith”** that’s Jesus speaking to a Canaanite. Take that and line that up with Romans 11:11-24 and the gentiles being grafted in and also Matthew 8:7-10 when Jesus says this of a Roman Centurion a caucasoid **I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!**
Only to continue on to say this:
**Mat **8:11** And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.**
**Mat **8:12** But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."**
“Luuucy, you gots some explaining to do”
Anthony Isreal your ignorance is showing Any true Christians can see right past your racist, elitist, vulgar worldview. Why don’t you say who you really are? Black Hebrew Israelites or better yet black suprematists with a spin off of Christianity/Judaism. You pick and choose what you want to see in the Bible because that’s how you were indoctrinated by your less than 100 year old cult and puffed up false teachers. Too bad people are informed nowadays and can just look up all your false prophets slinging false prophesies every year and then changing them again when they FAIL. But hey, you already knew that. Get off this page with your racism. Your fruit is showing. And next time, make sure your UA-cam playlists are on private so you don’t expose everyone to the demonic mainstream music you listen to.
Amazing preaching and what an amazing grace we have in Jesus that saved a wretch like me!!
Here is absolute Biblical proof that God does NOT cause or determine everything; In Jeremiah 19:5 God says, “They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal-something I did NOT COMMAND or mention, nor did it enter my mind.” 2nd Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is…not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.” and yet, it also has Jesus saying, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction (hell) and many are on it, but straight and narrow is the road that leads to life (Heaven) and few ever find it."
@@Mike-qt7jp Ok.
@@Mike-qt7jp I have a question for you. If our eternal destination is not determined by God then why are there going to be people going to hell that call Jesus lord? They clearly think Jesus is their Lord. I know you are going to say it’s because they didn’t really believe and that’s why true believers believe that some people that claim to be saved will not go to heaven. It’s because they think they have really believed but they really haven’t and the reason why is because they will not repent and turn to follow the true and living God. Their lack of understanding keeps them from ever coming to a knowledge of the truth. People always like to quote Ephesians 2:8-9 but they never quote 10 and the reason why is because verse 10 says that we were are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. A person dead in trespasses and sins cannot give themself eternal life. Read Acts chapter 8. There were some people in Samaria that heard the preaching of the word of God concerning Jesus Christ and the Bible says when they heard the gospel they believed and were then baptized but they had not received the Holy Spirit yet and if you keep reading in chapter 8 of Acts it says that those Samarians hadn’t received the Holy Spirit yet until Peter and John came to Samaria and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. If salvation occurred the very second someone believes the gospel like so many false prophets teach then why did John and Peter have to pray to God for the Samaritans to receive the Holy Spirit. I will answer that question for you. It’s because salvation is not a formula. The Holy Spirit is God’s spirit and He saves who He wants to and when He wants to. Now if you read Acts chapter 8 verses 9-23 it says there was a sorcerer named Simon who astonished people great and small with his magic and it says that when he heard the preaching he also believed and got baptized but he to was one of the people that hadn’t yet received the Holy Spirit yet. If you look at verse 18 it says that Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles hands the Holy Spirit was given he offered Peter and John money for that power so anyone he too laid his hands on he could give them the Holy Spirit and it says Peter rebuked Simon and told him that he was poisoned with bitterness and bound with iniquity and Peter told him to repent of that iniquity and pray to God to forgive him of the sinfulness of his heart.