A reliable source at the Hornby plant in China tells me the pride of the 2024 launch will be the Christmas steampunk lowmac carrying a donkey drinking a bottle of diet cola in TT:120 named after a prog-rock guitarist from the 1970s. Not available at any retailers for a bargain £99.99.
Ahh yeah I've seen some early samples of those... the Donkey has no legs at all... so I won't be able to call those broken! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I've heard that the donkeys will have "Jackass" written on them, will be painted in car gloss green and purple, and be made out of silicone foam, making them squish like an earplug so that they don' take issue from any rough riding. I have heard as well that, the loco hauling them will be a steampunk, 0-2-0 based on the Sir Uncle Frederickson balancing loco drawings, and will be in a set, titled: the Bassett-Lowke, Dave Bradwell, and Alan Gibson (stolen name cough cough) I mean tribute line-up.
It’s sad that this is what many, including I have come to expect from Hornby. They really need to get their act together if they are to survive in this industry. It’s become ever increasingly beneficial to just build kits instead…
Yeah that's very true - models like this could have a place in the industry... for a fiver... but if they want to charge over £70, they need to put some work in.... not even much... just some... Thanks for watching, Sam :)
What you have got there, Sam, are three examples of Dr. Garthew Arsebasket's famous 'Gelatine Horses'. They were bred to be nearly indestructible in battle, catching bullets and canister shot, like modern day ballistic gel. However, one of Arsebasket's assistants, the extremely deaf Mungo Haircut, thought that Arsebasket had asked him to breed horses made from a primitive type of Nitro-Glycerine. All went well, until August 28, 1839, when Arsebasket patted one of his horses. The resulting explosion destroyed one of the more 'toilety' areas of Liverpool. Tragically, nobody noticed for several years. Only three rubbery horses were ever carried by rail. They bounced about so much in transit, though, that the Wagons were derailed, and the engine, one of Sir T.D. Bowellmuvementt's experimental 4-7-3 'Barnacle' class engines, 'The Flatulent Whelk' was (thankfully) destroyed. The horses bounced off, never to be seen again. 🤔🤔🤔😆😆😆
@@mrbluesky2050 Doesn't entire Liverpool smell like a toilet? I mean... it is a pool full of liver, so it must be very stinky by now after all these years.
From my analysis of the original drawing I would say Hornby have missed a vertical beam which joins the 2 planks across the horse box. They have also made the mistake of attaching those planks to the outside. From the drawing it implies it actually works like a draw bar (which is sat in a recess on each end), and you would simply lift it out to provide access
Yeah that's right - every model should have all the stops pulled out given what they cost these days... the sad thing is Hornby can bring us wonderful models... look at those P2s! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains, I am a fan of your videos, but their are Two things I have been waiting for. The Heljan BR class 28 review. & You starting OO9 scale layout and reviews on OO9 scale locomotives & Rolling stock. I highly recommend you check out the OO9 scale range. It’s to the same scale as OO scale, but it’s Narrow gauge.
Ah yes, Hornby redesigns livestock, and you can't bleat it. But at that price, we're being fleeced. I was tempted to go and shout at the manufacturer, but that would make me a little hoarse...
hahaha I thoroughly approve of the number of animal puns, though you seem to agree with my findings... so that's the mane thing, Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Knowing how the other bad Hornby era 1 reviews have gone, we all know where this is going. Sam's gonna make his own 3D printed versions of these for a quarter the price in a month or so. 😅
@@SamsTrainsYou should include little ramp accessories to put next to the tracks to pull the cars up to to unload the animals onto. Also, if you make sheep and horses, put them on bases so they can stand up easily. It is ridiculous that the horse didn't have a base!
That would be reasonable if Sam had access to injection molding and other mass production techniques, but because they'd be 3d printed, he'll need to do the finishing work by hand. Also, his will probably be less basic than these are. I'd say a tenth the price is still a smidge high for the actual Hornby monstrosities, but I think anything less than a quarter to a third of the price is unreasonable to expect of Sam. You'll at least get something that's approximately worth that much money, though.@@BrakeCoach
I'm guessing the horse and sheep figures were originally meant to be line-side decoration figures, given the pose the horses are supposed to be in and the lack of a base on them.
Hi Sam, great honest review, it’s a shame Hornby don’t send preproduction models to guys like you for assessment, if they did these models wouldn’t reach the market! If this is what Hornby thinks modellers what then they are as delude as the Tory party! These along with the lowmac with the giant coke bottle are horrific! I’m sure Stevie Wonder wouldn’t buy this crap they churn out, gone are Hornby of old, I feel sorry for the Chinese workers who make these insults to railway modelling, I’m sick and tired of seeing crap like this, thanks for sharing Sam.
I used to watch you around 5 years ago, you were my childhood man. I would comment on your videos everyday and you replying to them would make my day. I was so addicted to trains before and would watch your videos almost every single day. Now my love for trains kinda just died out throughout the years. But im still happy your still making the same type of content and still healthy! Now looking back 5 years ago. Thank you, thank you for making my childhood so memorable! 🙌
It may be surprising for you, it certainly was for me, but the sheep wagons weren’t completely wrong. I have found drawings and paintings of similar wagons from the L&MR, but the chassis are all wrong, copying a coach base isn’t accurate, but again, the top half isn’t bad.
Still, those, I have seen, show doors. E.g., "Travelling on the Liverpool & Manchester Railway 1833" at the Science Museum Group. And, while we are at it, just compare the proportions of the horse wagons as modelled to those in the print (which also shows how the side blanking/raiiling is supposed to work). The sheep wagons were apparently of the same height and length as those.
I have to say at the moment Sam your channel and few others are keeping me sane as because of the cost of living crises I'm not able to invest in my favourite hobby. Keep up the good work.
To be fair to Hornby, if you look up Liverpool and Manchester railways goods trains, these wagons do look correct. The wheelbase could be a little longer, but the wagons themselves do look like the prototype as do the flat wagons. It's just the coal wagons they really messed up on. That being said, nearly £80 for 3 wagons that are the same quality as a pound shop train set is most definitely not worth it.
No wonder Simon K and Montana have decided to wash their hands of Hornby. I hope the modeling world vote with their pockets, if this is the future standard and total lack of pride in what they do, then their days are numbered. I'm so grateful you have the courage to give a honest opinion with a bit of humour. Good on you Sam. Eddy xx
Looking at the L&M.R. prints the horse box looks to have a door on the left hand side. When you think that modellers can now do resin 3D printing and produce something half decent, one would have thought that all the manufacturers would have upped their game. In Hornby's case and in this instance clearly not! As the prices have gone up considerably over the years and I can foresee a lot of resin manufactured wagons along with stations and other kit coming off 3d printers. Thank for your pull no punches review it is what was needed!
Very interesting - you mean on the end or the end of one of the sides? Most of the manufacturers have upped their game... and even Hornby has with other projects... quite why these are so quarter-arsed I'm not sure! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I meant along the length of the horse box, as oppose to the end over the buffer beam. I like your comment of Hornby being quarter axxxd in this instance. I am flabbergasted that they ignored the Gentlemen who reached out to them, at least get in touch with him and say thanks and we're not going ahead with it, even just out of pure courtesy.
Love the satire hahah. Standardisation of instructional text is of course rational and efficient, and frankly we can easily live with using some imagination for era 1 wagons..., but had H at least made the cattle smartly clipping in or something, supply a pack of extra sheep, make the plastic not so cheap plasticy looking..., and cut the price towards £ 15 maximum a piece, then perhaps these could fare into the direction towards acceptable in our opinion. H is financially in a very bad state and have been investing heavily in Vietnamese production (die-cast locos), and of course they've tried TT (with backlash by some rudimentary most silly quality issues). Your reviews of the new OO die-cast locos did look promising, so let's see if H will be eventually be able to pull themselves out of their financial swamp. Meanwhile, they've been burning many bridges in recent years which will be haunting them for years to come... This era 1 mess doesn't really help... Cheerio.
You're absolutely right Linda, and all of this could have been easily done I feel. They are indeed in a very bad state, and that won't change while ever they serve up gumph like this! Hopefully they will be able to fix things before they go under, though it could be that time is running out! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The drawings you referred to (and which Hornby obviously used as a reference) actually come from a typeface/font used commonly for adverts - you can see the locos and wagons in all sorts of combinations in adverts from the 1860s through 1920's. They aren't representative of anything "real" - just what some typeface manufacturer dreamed up.
@@SamsTrainsSome of it is also drawn from artist renditions of the railways at the time. Some of these wagons wouldn't be to out of place in a Monty Python Flying Circus Opening.
he already has , matchbox was making better quality livestock items for their diecast trucks back in the 60s and 70s , there is no need for the exceptionally poor quality of those items today
These wagons and animals would not look out of place as part of the Steam Punk range. I don't know why Hornby didn't think of it! Of the Steam Punk locos you reviewed and this circus pack which do you consider is the better value for money?
airfix are having items made in india according to reports quality has gone down the toilet , plastics are poor quality and packaging inspection is abysmal
Yep, thise animals are definitely to scale... 😂 Thing is, when this doesn't sell, Hornby will shout long and loud about how customers aren't interested in Era 1, rather than admitting that it's because their Era 1 offerings were low effort, cash grab rubbish 🤷
hahaha you're absolutely right - I bet they will use it as evidence that the market isn't interested in era 1... just like they weren't interested in steampunk or fake lego... what's wrong with customers these days?!? Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam, that was your funniest review in a quite a while, you really make me smile😂. Clearly these models have a place but not at that price, they are basic toys I would expect on a playtrain set. And as for those animals. Bad enough they can't stand for static posing in a field but how useless when being pulled along behind a loco! Hornby are strange, one week with a high spec steam loco, the next with cheap and nasty horse transporter. I suspect many would prefer something in between, a lower cost quality model rather than these extremes.
I’m not annoyed at the in accuracy or realism , after all my kids have plenty of inaccurate toys from China, my problem is this is not priced or intended to be a toy, Hornby needs to be ashamed to put this into production…… but they don’t seem to be, thanks for bending over for us again Sam so we don’t have to
Looking at these wagons, quality and build it’s hard to see how Hornby can justify the price …even the addition of livestock leaves me wondering what Hornby thought the reaction would be 🤔
@@malcolmlucas6627Schleich do a much better job making animals for toy farms and zoos, but Hornby never brought them out. I guess they missed out on the right company to make animals instead.
Thank you for bringing us the bad as well as the good Sam! Clearly these are terrible, but I could see my pre-school daughter enjoying something similar - perhaps a starter set with wagons and animals to load/unload. There's the seed of a good idea here, but a shame that cash-grabbing seems to be the only thing on Hornby's agenda.
Well done Hornby ! 😂 I think they must live on another planet tbh - they have no common sense! I mean why spend time and money on something no one wants or will want (similar to brickpunk) when they could be investing in upgrading something?!
For next year's April 1st video you should review a selection of real Hornby products and mix in a few outrageously fake ones too and leave it to us to figure out which is which.
It appears to me that these models are NOT based on original drawings, but on the Royal Mail Liverpool and Manchester stamps from 1980.Check Google and you will see what I mean. Also only enough sheep for one wagon. Enjoyed the video, correct assessment. once again.
I've just got out my first edition Royal Mail envelope and see that both the horse & sheep wagons mirror those which appeared on the stamps from 1980. Thanks for pointing that out. Hornby's research (or lack thereof) cannot be excused for producing a toy-like model and expecting railway modellers to pay £76.99 for their R60164 L&MR Coal Wagon Pack. If Hornby continues manufacturing low-end, high-priced models, they will only apply further nails into their coffin.
Google images shows illustrations from the early 1830s of stacked small live stock wagons and larger wooden panel horse and cattle wagons similar to the Hornby ones
The upper structures are broadly correct but some what crude for 1831 wagons judging by period newspaper illustrations. The 2 wooden bars in the horse box looked removable and the ends solid wooden panels.
What would make this range complete is models of some of the other wagons seen at 15:38 - the truck with the amorphous black substance on it, the child-beating wagon, and the blue truck that transports a single Duplo block
I’m glad that Hornby has graced us with this revolutionary era 1 rolling stock. They are paving the way and setting the example 😂 On a serious note: A shame they don’t make standard freight locos from era 1. A tiny little engine (preferably one with outside cranks) would be lovely
Compare the quality and accuracy of the Accurascale chaldrons with these Hornby toys at £45 for three chardrons and £80 for three 'things'. Well, there is no comparison.
"Early railway prints" by Gareth Rees. Published by phaidon press 1980 page 41 " travelling on the liverpool and manchester railway " by I shaw. Shows side elevations of goods trains, They look like the hornby models, but the chassis are a lot simpler and nothing like carriage chassis
Review the new Bachman hudson next! New tooling, all metal body, and Wow sound decoder. The decoder makes a weird sound through the speaker from time to time but according to Bachman and WOW it’s normal until a fox can be made.
Just for fun: Try 3-D printing some realistic parts for these "wagons". First, a peaked roof to shed water. Perhaps replacement sides /with doors/ for the sheep jails?
Did anyone notice on one of the Victorian sketches the end flat wagon with a horse carriage on it with people sitting in the carriage? The further possibilities are endless ... like a set of Russian dolls ! I'm sure Hornby can oblige.
I’ve watched most of your reviews and I’ve heard you disappointed, impressed and mildly annoyed. Your sarcasm has always been well placed and justified. This review you actually sounded genuinely pissed off with the crap your had to review. Completely justified. These “wagons” are crap. In my opinion far far worse than that jubilee junk you looked at.
The problem with hornby is that their a British icon.. they paved the way for model railways today so people are loyal to them and when they get it right omg they get it right!! But I feel that they seem to think their name attached to something will carry the product.. the steam punk line is a very good example! Anyways great video! 👍
Yeah you're right - they do seem to think they can do no wrong... in stark contrast to the other manufacturers who work their socks off, and employ people who know the hobby, and usually are passionate about it too! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
You know you have an issue when the track you are displaying a model on is more detalied then the model - Thanks for taking the bullet so others do not have to Sam!
Just re-viewed your Accurascale Chaldron review from a year ago. At £45 you commented that they were relatively expensive for a pack of three; _do_ tell us what you think about that price now.
The bodies do resemble vehiclkes in some of the early L&M prints - however, they're much too long, stretched to fit the standard carriage chassis, and certainly wouldn't have sprung buffers at that early date! No, I won't be buying. Why? I can quite happily build my own! PS The late Mike Sharman did turn Airfix Rocket tenders into open wagons - at a time when they cost 2/6p each. He did have the wit to fit new, high arched ends to make their origin a bit less obvious!
After a long day at college, this video title is extremely exciting to see. Still a shame, though, that this is what is being produced. Your 3D prints are the way of the future!
(@19:22) Check out the guy in the goods wagon behind the horse wagon. It looks like he’s getting ready to deliver a beat down with a golf club. Is that a 9-iron? Fore!
I'm not sure if we will ever find proper diagrams for L&M freight wagons aside from the coal wagons. We do know at least some of the sheep wagons would've had canvas roofs based on surviving text. I assume the side planks on the horse wagons would've been latched and un-latched (or nailed) to get the horse in an out. The flatbeds re-using the coach frames is somewhat accurate as those would've been used to transfer passengers' horse carriages as seen in the painting you found.
I am 83 and a lifetime model maker and I find these era one rolling stock to be complete and diabolical travesties. Hornby had a rare and open target to sweep the market with this series which have never been covered in the mass market but they have not only shot themselves in the foot they have completely blown BOTH legs off! such a shame, especialy with the upcoming 200th anniversary of the Stockton and darlington railway celebrations. These are cheap thoughtless tat and even if they were a tenner each they would be overpriced. I am really dissapointed in Hornby after the initial hype for what is a new and open market.
Sam, you are always balanced in your reviews. In fairness, you should have pointed out that Hornby under promised and over delivered, in a reversal of their usual form. The “What’s inside “ page clearly promised ONE wagon and they sent you three! Probably the only way they can unload this rubbish.
It appears that Hornby don't really care what people think or they wouldn't produce this expensive tat. I do think that a lot of models made by different companies are over priced for what they are. Keep up the good work Sam ! say it as it is. Frank
Wow that looks so cool. And Sam's face after that terrible music hahahah. Very cool overall. Keep being awesome my friend. I might get a black 5 or maybe a great Western engine. But yeah ur the best. Hope to see what trains they have in store this year
What about fixing Lafayette by printing a new gear? I’ve done it several times for my HO locomotives, they might not last as long, but it’s good enough for such a small loco.
It’s been awhile since I’ve seen one of these harsh, scathing reviews (not entirely unfair tbh) Agree with everything you said about them but have got to wonder is something like this better than no era1 stuff, does producing these do more harm than good? As for when hornby goes we can be glad to be missing out on these as a final remark is equally harsh as we’d also miss out on things like the exquisite new P2s and currently no one does as much (if poor) era 1 stuff as Hornby, from a distant the set up wasn’t so bad and if it sparks interest in the period that can only be a good thing, it’s a shame they have to charge an arm and a leg for it
Biggest problem I can see is finding the donation brush. I have spent ages trying to find carbon rod of the right size to replace the brushes in a HD upright motor without success.
Many, many years ago 60 to be precise, my modeller friends and used the carbon lead from pencils as replacement brushes. About sixty years ago the windscreen wiper motor on my Austin 1100 car failed while on holiday (worn bearings) I took a couple of my sons pencils and ground the carbon up and packed the bearings with the carbon and the wipers worked for a 2 week holiday ( and for another 2 years).
For the start I figured Sam was either just being sheepish or had fell off the wagon, but he certainly wasn't horsing around. Top marks though Sam for keeping on track and not letting the review go off the rails.
Wagons for carrying livestock must pre-date powered railways as the horses powered the tramways. They pulled wagons up hill and where transported with the loaded wagons back to the bottom of the hill. So some form of brake would be a requirement on the wagons. Also fittings for attaching the horses to pull the wagons would be a requirement The Ffestiniog still recreate this process on limited events so prototype horse transport wagons would be available. Sheep would be transported in open wagons under a sheet(tarp) to prevent escape.
I’d honestly like to see you speedrun your own sheep or horse wagons, i assume that would be indicative of how much time and effort went into these ones
It would appear that Hornby have taken their design for these wagons from postage stamps issued by the British Post Office in the 1980s (of which they are ‘good’ representation’s even down to the colour) rather than the watercolour image available from the Science Photo Library which at least shows cage doors, or the image that you show.
You could probably fix those horses with a bit of very hot water from the kettle. Pour some over the bent leg, it will go floppier than it is already. While it's soft, hold the leg where you want it until it cools.
SO MUCH EFFORT. YES. JUST THE BEST, HORNBY! WELL DONE! No this was most definitely NOT blatant sarcasm and was TOTALLY sincere because they TOTALLY didn't re-cycle old tooling and lie about it! *cough cough* The main problem here is they are basically the ONLY manufacturer who are actually making E1 models, aside from the Rapido Lion, so they have no competition in this area. No competition means they don't have to try hard at all to make their money from E1 models because they know if people WANT E1 models, they have no choice but to come to Hornby. And that makes them complacent. Detached from reality. We need someone else to step in and push them to make better quality models because this is pathetic. Allie Express quality. Probably should've called El Cheapo for assistance with this one xD
When you restart your live show, you just know the Lion and all the silly rolling stock are going to be right up there with the most requested! 😂😂😂🐏🐏🐏🐎🐎🐎
Oh wow. I thought you were joking in the news episode where you said you'll get em yourself. It is as bad as I expected, but at least the build quality is better than the flatbeds and you get a few animals. While I don't have anything too much against the historical inaccuracies, I think they are about twice as expensive. The three coal wagons for 20-30£? With retailer discounts, I think it would be okay ( for me I think the coal wagon/Rocket tender looks cute). But the fact that these are over double that, combining with not enough livestock for the sheep wagons is unacceptable. Thank you for your sacrifice to warn us how horrible these are.
Every time a company ups it's price for silliness like this, it makes 3D printing look more attractive. Sam and tens of thousands of dedicated, and disgusted, consumers are standing up and saying, 'We don't like what you're selling, and we really don't like what you're charging for this ^%$#@. We'll print what we want if you won't. Have a Great Day...!"
A reliable source at the Hornby plant in China tells me the pride of the 2024 launch will be the Christmas steampunk lowmac carrying a donkey drinking a bottle of diet cola in TT:120 named after a prog-rock guitarist from the 1970s. Not available at any retailers for a bargain £99.99.
🤣😂🤣
Ahh yeah I've seen some early samples of those... the Donkey has no legs at all... so I won't be able to call those broken!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
ain't gonna lie i'd rather nail my foreskin to my workbench
I won't be buying *that* one!
I've heard that the donkeys will have "Jackass" written on them, will be painted in car gloss green and purple, and be made out of silicone foam, making them squish like an earplug so that they don' take issue from any rough riding. I have heard as well that, the loco hauling them will be a steampunk, 0-2-0 based on the Sir Uncle Frederickson balancing loco drawings, and will be in a set, titled: the Bassett-Lowke, Dave Bradwell, and Alan Gibson (stolen name cough cough) I mean tribute line-up.
It’s sad that this is what many, including I have come to expect from Hornby. They really need to get their act together if they are to survive in this industry. It’s become ever increasingly beneficial to just build kits instead…
Hornby always struck me as toy makers rather than model makers - and this set confirms that.
Yeah that's very true - models like this could have a place in the industry... for a fiver... but if they want to charge over £70, they need to put some work in.... not even much... just some...
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
O dear - and even Hattons describe these things as must-haves...
Go on Sam, show Hornby how its done, make us some more era 1 wagons... please, these prices are jokes 😅
Must have nots more suitable! No rats to be smelt between Hattons and Hornby then.................@@ianjeffery6744
What you have got there, Sam, are three examples of Dr. Garthew Arsebasket's famous 'Gelatine Horses'. They were bred to be nearly indestructible in battle, catching bullets and canister shot, like modern day ballistic gel. However, one of Arsebasket's assistants, the extremely deaf Mungo Haircut, thought that Arsebasket had asked him to breed horses made from a primitive type of Nitro-Glycerine. All went well, until August 28, 1839, when Arsebasket patted one of his horses. The resulting explosion destroyed one of the more 'toilety' areas of Liverpool. Tragically, nobody noticed for several years.
Only three rubbery horses were ever carried by rail. They bounced about so much in transit, though, that the Wagons were derailed, and the engine, one of Sir T.D. Bowellmuvementt's experimental 4-7-3 'Barnacle' class engines, 'The Flatulent Whelk' was (thankfully) destroyed.
The horses bounced off, never to be seen again. 🤔🤔🤔😆😆😆
Ahh the famous "Gelatine Horses", I've heard the fables about those. This is possibly the best comment I've ever read....
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
. . loving the bit about Liverpool.... 'toilety areas' so funny.
@@mrbluesky2050 Doesn't entire Liverpool smell like a toilet? I mean... it is a pool full of liver, so it must be very stinky by now after all these years.
Now that did make me laugh love it ace
'The Flatulent Whelk' 😂😂
Seeing stuff like this makes me glad that as a modeler of late era Japanese steam in HO, that none of the Japanese manufacturers have gone this route
From my analysis of the original drawing I would say Hornby have missed a vertical beam which joins the 2 planks across the horse box. They have also made the mistake of attaching those planks to the outside. From the drawing it implies it actually works like a draw bar (which is sat in a recess on each end), and you would simply lift it out to provide access
That’s why the Hornby A2/2 and A2/3 were substandard, Hornby needed the A team to work long and hard on this project.
Yeah that's right - every model should have all the stops pulled out given what they cost these days... the sad thing is Hornby can bring us wonderful models... look at those P2s!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains, I am a fan of your videos, but their are Two things I have been waiting for.
The Heljan BR class 28 review.
&
You starting OO9 scale layout and reviews on OO9 scale locomotives & Rolling stock.
I highly recommend you check out the OO9 scale range. It’s to the same scale as OO scale, but it’s Narrow gauge.
Ah yes, Hornby redesigns livestock, and you can't bleat it. But at that price, we're being fleeced. I was tempted to go and shout at the manufacturer, but that would make me a little hoarse...
hahaha I thoroughly approve of the number of animal puns, though you seem to agree with my findings... so that's the mane thing,
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
You should make some more era 1 rolling stock. They would probably be more 99%. Better and more realistic than Hornbys
I definitely will be making more!! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Perhaps a few of those Marvelous Balancing cars, for one sheep each?
Knowing how the other bad Hornby era 1 reviews have gone, we all know where this is going. Sam's gonna make his own 3D printed versions of these for a quarter the price in a month or so. 😅
haha absolutely - next year they'll be on the way!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrainsYou should include little ramp accessories to put next to the tracks to pull the cars up to to unload the animals onto. Also, if you make sheep and horses, put them on bases so they can stand up easily. It is ridiculous that the horse didn't have a base!
Considering this is very basic, it would be even lower--maybe 10th of the price?
I was about to ask that very question. Could do with some livestock wagons to match my coal 3d printed wagons 😎
That would be reasonable if Sam had access to injection molding and other mass production techniques, but because they'd be 3d printed, he'll need to do the finishing work by hand. Also, his will probably be less basic than these are. I'd say a tenth the price is still a smidge high for the actual Hornby monstrosities, but I think anything less than a quarter to a third of the price is unreasonable to expect of Sam. You'll at least get something that's approximately worth that much money, though.@@BrakeCoach
I'm guessing the horse and sheep figures were originally meant to be line-side decoration figures, given the pose the horses are supposed to be in and the lack of a base on them.
Hi Sam, great honest review, it’s a shame Hornby don’t send preproduction models to guys like you for assessment, if they did these models wouldn’t reach the market! If this is what Hornby thinks modellers what then they are as delude as the Tory party! These along with the lowmac with the giant coke bottle are horrific! I’m sure Stevie Wonder wouldn’t buy this crap they churn out, gone are Hornby of old, I feel sorry for the Chinese workers who make these insults to railway modelling, I’m sick and tired of seeing crap like this, thanks for sharing Sam.
I used to watch you around 5 years ago, you were my childhood man. I would comment on your videos everyday and you replying to them would make my day. I was so addicted to trains before and would watch your videos almost every single day. Now my love for trains kinda just died out throughout the years. But im still happy your still making the same type of content and still healthy! Now looking back 5 years ago. Thank you, thank you for making my childhood so memorable! 🙌
Haha come back in a while. I loved trains as a kid, discovered girls / cars / rock music and took a 20 year break. Now I'm more obsessed than ever.
It may be surprising for you, it certainly was for me, but the sheep wagons weren’t completely wrong. I have found drawings and paintings of similar wagons from the L&MR, but the chassis are all wrong, copying a coach base isn’t accurate, but again, the top half isn’t bad.
Still, those, I have seen, show doors. E.g., "Travelling on the Liverpool & Manchester Railway 1833" at the Science Museum Group. And, while we are at it, just compare the proportions of the horse wagons as modelled to those in the print (which also shows how the side blanking/raiiling is supposed to work). The sheep wagons were apparently of the same height and length as those.
I have to say at the moment Sam your channel and few others are keeping me sane as because of the cost of living crises I'm not able to invest in my favourite hobby. Keep up the good work.
To be fair to Hornby, if you look up Liverpool and Manchester railways goods trains, these wagons do look correct. The wheelbase could be a little longer, but the wagons themselves do look like the prototype as do the flat wagons. It's just the coal wagons they really messed up on.
That being said, nearly £80 for 3 wagons that are the same quality as a pound shop train set is most definitely not worth it.
No wonder Simon K and Montana have decided to wash their hands of Hornby. I hope the modeling world vote with their pockets, if this is the future standard and total lack of pride in what they do, then their days are numbered. I'm so grateful you have the courage to give a honest opinion with a bit of humour. Good on you Sam. Eddy xx
think youll find that simon was pushed, he put out a post saying he never said he was retiring, that he was retired, he also pushed this range
I always thought Simon was too old for the job and they needed to get someone younger and better at speaking to the camera
Looking at the L&M.R. prints the horse box looks to have a door on the left hand side.
When you think that modellers can now do resin 3D printing and produce something half decent, one would have thought that all the manufacturers would have upped their game. In Hornby's case and in this instance clearly not! As the prices have gone up considerably over the years and I can foresee a lot of resin manufactured wagons along with stations and other kit coming off 3d printers. Thank for your pull no punches review it is what was needed!
Very interesting - you mean on the end or the end of one of the sides? Most of the manufacturers have upped their game... and even Hornby has with other projects... quite why these are so quarter-arsed I'm not sure!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I meant along the length of the horse box, as oppose to the end over the buffer beam. I like your comment of Hornby being quarter axxxd in this instance. I am flabbergasted that they ignored the Gentlemen who reached out to them, at least get in touch with him and say thanks and we're not going ahead with it, even just out of pure courtesy.
Love the satire hahah. Standardisation of instructional text is of course rational and efficient, and frankly we can easily live with using some imagination for era 1 wagons..., but had H at least made the cattle smartly clipping in or something, supply a pack of extra sheep, make the plastic not so cheap plasticy looking..., and cut the price towards £ 15 maximum a piece, then perhaps these could fare into the direction towards acceptable in our opinion. H is financially in a very bad state and have been investing heavily in Vietnamese production (die-cast locos), and of course they've tried TT (with backlash by some rudimentary most silly quality issues).
Your reviews of the new OO die-cast locos did look promising, so let's see if H will be eventually be able to pull themselves out of their financial swamp. Meanwhile, they've been burning many bridges in recent years which will be haunting them for years to come... This era 1 mess doesn't really help... Cheerio.
You're absolutely right Linda, and all of this could have been easily done I feel. They are indeed in a very bad state, and that won't change while ever they serve up gumph like this! Hopefully they will be able to fix things before they go under, though it could be that time is running out!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The drawings you referred to (and which Hornby obviously used as a reference) actually come from a typeface/font used commonly for adverts - you can see the locos and wagons in all sorts of combinations in adverts from the 1860s through 1920's. They aren't representative of anything "real" - just what some typeface manufacturer dreamed up.
Fascinating! Is that true Steve??
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrainsSome of it is also drawn from artist renditions of the railways at the time. Some of these wagons wouldn't be to out of place in a Monty Python Flying Circus Opening.
A couple of questions: Can you do better using your 3-D printers? And if you feel you can, why not show Hornby how it is done?
he already has , matchbox was making better quality livestock items for their diecast trucks back in the 60s and 70s , there is no need for the exceptionally poor quality of those items today
These wagons and animals would not look out of place as part of the Steam Punk range. I don't know why Hornby didn't think of it! Of the Steam Punk locos you reviewed and this circus pack which do you consider is the better value for money?
If Hornby's other brands are being operated in the same way we're watching a company in it's death throes...
The thing is the UK government would no sooner buy them out of Bankruptcy than let them die. Then again a Nationalised Hornby would be interesting.
airfix are having items made in india according to reports quality has gone down the toilet , plastics are poor quality and packaging inspection is abysmal
@@REDARROW_A_Personal That would be bizarre 😁
@@shakeyhandsshedmodelrailwa2494 Astonishing how this company is run.
Hornby's profits are actually up this year. Funny.
Yep, thise animals are definitely to scale... 😂
Thing is, when this doesn't sell, Hornby will shout long and loud about how customers aren't interested in Era 1, rather than admitting that it's because their Era 1 offerings were low effort, cash grab rubbish 🤷
hahaha you're absolutely right - I bet they will use it as evidence that the market isn't interested in era 1... just like they weren't interested in steampunk or fake lego... what's wrong with customers these days?!?
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I think the worst part for me is that they couldn't be bothered to make different poses for the horses. Sums it up
The plastic used on the animals is reminiscent of the soft plastic used on old airfix 1/72 figures.
I disagree, I think its worse!
It would be interesting to see an accurate 3d printed version of these.
Sam, that was your funniest review in a quite a while, you really make me smile😂. Clearly these models have a place but not at that price, they are basic toys I would expect on a playtrain set. And as for those animals. Bad enough they can't stand for static posing in a field but how useless when being pulled along behind a loco! Hornby are strange, one week with a high spec steam loco, the next with cheap and nasty horse transporter. I suspect many would prefer something in between, a lower cost quality model rather than these extremes.
I’m not annoyed at the in accuracy or realism , after all my kids have plenty of inaccurate toys from China, my problem is this is not priced or intended to be a toy, Hornby needs to be ashamed to put this into production…… but they don’t seem to be, thanks for bending over for us again Sam so we don’t have to
Looking at these wagons, quality and build it’s hard to see how Hornby can justify the price …even the addition of livestock leaves me wondering what Hornby thought the reaction would be 🤔
It's quite simple, they think we're intellectually subnormal. 😡
I agree... the fact that they haven't posted these on their socials says it all... that's quite rare for a new product ;)
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I suspect you could get better quality livestock from a childrens'faarrm set in supermarket/toystore.
@@malcolmlucas6627Schleich do a much better job making animals for toy farms and zoos, but Hornby never brought them out. I guess they missed out on the right company to make animals instead.
That intro is just priceless!!! Honestly their will only ever be one Sam! And I love your sarcasm and humour!
100% agree with your review! For what you paid you could’ve gotten something far far better.
Perhaps Hornby Era 1 uses the level of equipment available during Era 1 to produce it!
Thank you for bringing us the bad as well as the good Sam! Clearly these are terrible, but I could see my pre-school daughter enjoying something similar - perhaps a starter set with wagons and animals to load/unload. There's the seed of a good idea here, but a shame that cash-grabbing seems to be the only thing on Hornby's agenda.
22:30 made me chuckle. The way you said it made you sound like you were genuinely impressed they messed up every item on that consist
Great review Sam don't think I've ever laughed so much at a model review before 😂
if only they had OO scale hornby designer figures you could add so much more realism to these.
Well done Hornby ! 😂 I think they must live on another planet tbh - they have no common sense! I mean why spend time and money on something no one wants or will want (similar to brickpunk) when they could be investing in upgrading something?!
haha I think so too - very senseless indeed isn't it? Not that I think they spent much time and money on this ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hey! Don't start having a go at us Brickpunkers. 😀
For next year's April 1st video you should review a selection of real Hornby products and mix in a few outrageously fake ones too and leave it to us to figure out which is which.
'Can a 200 pound Hornby loco beat a cheap Wish knockoff? Find out next!'
0:21 I love the sarcasm there Sam. Lol
Cheers Japser & Willow
hahaha why thank you!
I'm gonna give my Hotwheels argument again. Hotwheels can make a fantastic toy car that sells for
Did Simon "retire" because he commissioned these models or because Hornby did? Great review by the way
hahaha that's a good question!
Sam really seems the perfect person to generally judge a product before release better than the officials.
It appears to me that these models are NOT based on original drawings, but on the Royal Mail Liverpool and Manchester stamps from 1980.Check Google and you will see what I mean.
Also only enough sheep for one wagon. Enjoyed the video, correct assessment. once again.
I've just got out my first edition Royal Mail envelope and see that both the horse & sheep wagons mirror those which appeared on the stamps from 1980. Thanks for pointing that out. Hornby's research (or lack thereof) cannot be excused for producing a toy-like model and expecting railway modellers to pay £76.99 for their R60164 L&MR Coal Wagon Pack. If Hornby continues manufacturing low-end, high-priced models, they will only apply further nails into their coffin.
Google images shows illustrations from the early 1830s of stacked small live stock wagons and larger wooden panel horse and cattle wagons similar to the Hornby ones
Sam mate the look on the your face at 0:20 just said it all about these so-called wagons
Those wagons without the tops look better then the real flat beds 😂
The upper structures are broadly correct but some what crude for 1831 wagons judging by period newspaper illustrations. The 2 wooden bars in the horse box looked removable and the ends solid wooden panels.
What would make this range complete is models of some of the other wagons seen at 15:38 - the truck with the amorphous black substance on it, the child-beating wagon, and the blue truck that transports a single Duplo block
I’m glad that Hornby has graced us with this revolutionary era 1 rolling stock. They are paving the way and setting the example 😂
On a serious note:
A shame they don’t make standard freight locos from era 1.
A tiny little engine (preferably one with outside cranks) would be lovely
I agree - hopefully they'll find time to do something decent like that... rather than this!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Compare the quality and accuracy of the Accurascale chaldrons with these Hornby toys at £45 for three chardrons and £80 for three 'things'. Well, there is no comparison.
"Early railway prints" by Gareth Rees. Published by phaidon press 1980 page 41 " travelling on the liverpool and manchester railway " by I shaw. Shows side elevations of goods trains, They look like the hornby models, but the chassis are a lot simpler and nothing like carriage chassis
Review the new Bachman hudson next! New tooling, all metal body, and Wow sound decoder. The decoder makes a weird sound through the speaker from time to time but according to Bachman and WOW it’s normal until a fox can be made.
I love how one of the time stamps is "Fitting the carcusses". 😂 Love your videos Sam.
Just for fun: Try 3-D printing some realistic parts for these "wagons". First, a peaked roof to shed water. Perhaps replacement sides /with doors/ for the sheep jails?
Hornby when making era 1 stock accurate: (clueless)
Hornby when making era 1 stock expensive: (knows what they are doing)
hahaha very true!
Did anyone notice on one of the Victorian sketches the end flat wagon with a horse carriage on it with people sitting in the carriage? The further possibilities are endless ... like a set of Russian dolls !
I'm sure Hornby can oblige.
I liked the wagon with what looked like two well-dressed gentlemen whipping.
I’ve watched most of your reviews and I’ve heard you disappointed, impressed and mildly annoyed. Your sarcasm has always been well placed and justified.
This review you actually sounded genuinely pissed off with the crap your had to review. Completely justified. These “wagons” are crap. In my opinion far far worse than that jubilee junk you looked at.
The problem with hornby is that their a British icon.. they paved the way for model railways today so people are loyal to them and when they get it right omg they get it right!! But I feel that they seem to think their name attached to something will carry the product.. the steam punk line is a very good example! Anyways great video! 👍
P.s Sam I missed out last year.. are the pumpkin wagons coming back this year!? 😁
Yeah you're right - they do seem to think they can do no wrong... in stark contrast to the other manufacturers who work their socks off, and employ people who know the hobby, and usually are passionate about it too!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
You know you have an issue when the track you are displaying a model on is more detalied then the model - Thanks for taking the bullet so others do not have to Sam!
It's kind of Ironic, because even the Toy/Budget Range of the Hornby Tri-ang/Hornby Railroad have more detail than these wagons.
Just re-viewed your Accurascale Chaldron review from a year ago. At £45 you commented that they were relatively expensive for a pack of three; _do_ tell us what you think about that price now.
The bodies do resemble vehiclkes in some of the early L&M prints - however, they're much too long, stretched to fit the standard carriage chassis, and certainly wouldn't have sprung buffers at that early date! No, I won't be buying. Why? I can quite happily build my own!
PS The late Mike Sharman did turn Airfix Rocket tenders into open wagons - at a time when they cost 2/6p each. He did have the wit to fit new, high arched ends to make their origin a bit less obvious!
After a long day at college, this video title is extremely exciting to see. Still a shame, though, that this is what is being produced. Your 3D prints are the way of the future!
Amazing review. You always keep me going to carry on with my layout.
Great conversation and enjoy the content.
Awesome video today Sam such a shame that hornby just reuse old models
(@19:22) Check out the guy in the goods wagon behind the horse wagon. It looks like he’s getting ready to deliver a beat down with a golf club. Is that a 9-iron? Fore!
I'm not sure if we will ever find proper diagrams for L&M freight wagons aside from the coal wagons. We do know at least some of the sheep wagons would've had canvas roofs based on surviving text. I assume the side planks on the horse wagons would've been latched and un-latched (or nailed) to get the horse in an out.
The flatbeds re-using the coach frames is somewhat accurate as those would've been used to transfer passengers' horse carriages as seen in the painting you found.
I can see Sam just ROASTING Era 1 Hornby on a late night talk show. A show I would definitely watch 🤣
That would be interesting!
hahahaha I'd like to be free to use more flowery language!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I think Graham Norton or The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon would be suitable
The basic line drawings in the disassembly instructions look better than the full models haha
I am 83 and a lifetime model maker and I find these era one rolling stock to be complete and diabolical travesties. Hornby had a rare and open target to sweep the market with this series which have never been covered in the mass market but they have not only shot themselves in the foot they have completely blown BOTH legs off! such a shame, especialy with the upcoming 200th anniversary of the Stockton and darlington railway celebrations. These are cheap thoughtless tat and even if they were a tenner each they would be overpriced. I am really dissapointed in Hornby after the initial hype for what is a new and open market.
A good honest review. I would never buy these cars! The price is insane.
Sam, you are always balanced in your reviews. In fairness, you should have pointed out that Hornby under promised and over delivered, in a reversal of their usual form. The “What’s inside “ page clearly promised ONE wagon and they sent you three!
Probably the only way they can unload this rubbish.
Awesome video as always Sam your videos are always a big help
It appears that Hornby don't really care what people think or they wouldn't produce this expensive tat. I do think that a lot of models made by different companies are over priced for what they are. Keep up the good work Sam ! say it as it is. Frank
Hey, put all three "dead" horses in a wagon and stop at the Glue Factory ! (OO scale of course !)
It's GLUOE you sot !
Wow that looks so cool. And Sam's face after that terrible music hahahah. Very cool overall. Keep being awesome my friend. I might get a black 5 or maybe a great Western engine. But yeah ur the best. Hope to see what trains they have in store this year
haha thank you very much! A black 5 is definitely on the list when/if they get here! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I smell a collaboration opportunity here: Anthony Dawson and samstrains. Needs a snappy name
What about fixing Lafayette by printing a new gear?
I’ve done it several times for my HO locomotives, they might not last as long, but it’s good enough for such a small loco.
It’s been awhile since I’ve seen one of these harsh, scathing reviews (not entirely unfair tbh)
Agree with everything you said about them but have got to wonder is something like this better than no era1 stuff, does producing these do more harm than good?
As for when hornby goes we can be glad to be missing out on these as a final remark is equally harsh as we’d also miss out on things like the exquisite new P2s and currently no one does as much (if poor) era 1 stuff as Hornby, from a distant the set up wasn’t so bad and if it sparks interest in the period that can only be a good thing, it’s a shame they have to charge an arm and a leg for it
I really think Sam, that Hornby aren't taking there Era 1 stuff not very seriously.
Cheers Jasper & Willow
No they're not - just taking the Michael now!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam, I think you're giving too much away in your thumbnail headlines. Saying it's awful or superb rather takes the surprise away.
Love your channel.
Biggest problem I can see is finding the donation brush. I have spent ages trying to find carbon rod of the right size to replace the brushes in a HD upright motor without success.
Many, many years ago 60 to be precise, my modeller friends and used the carbon lead from pencils as replacement brushes. About sixty years ago the windscreen wiper motor on my Austin 1100 car failed while on holiday (worn bearings) I took a couple of my sons pencils and ground the carbon up and packed the bearings with the carbon and the wipers worked for a 2 week holiday ( and for another 2 years).
@@waltersnowdon1243 I never thought of that! I guess the problem would now be finding a pencil actually containing carbon!
For the start I figured Sam was either just being sheepish or had fell off the wagon, but he certainly wasn't horsing around. Top marks though Sam for keeping on track and not letting the review go off the rails.
Good heavens, they cut the steps off! What an incredible attention to detail!
Wagons for carrying livestock must pre-date powered railways as the horses powered the tramways. They pulled wagons up hill and where transported with the loaded wagons back to the bottom of the hill. So some form of brake would be a requirement on the wagons. Also fittings for attaching the horses to pull the wagons would be a requirement The Ffestiniog still recreate this process on limited events so prototype horse transport wagons would be available. Sheep would be transported in open wagons under a sheet(tarp) to prevent escape.
you are REALLY over-thinking this......
Very interesting Brian about the brakes - that does make sense!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sorta gave the review away there Sam with the Great Festering Turds comment at the start!
I’d honestly like to see you speedrun your own sheep or horse wagons, i assume that would be indicative of how much time and effort went into these ones
It would appear that Hornby have taken their design for these wagons from postage stamps issued by the British Post Office in the 1980s (of which they are ‘good’ representation’s even down to the colour) rather than the watercolour image available from the Science Photo Library which at least shows cage doors, or the image that you show.
You know it would be awful when Sam starts the video with a sigh just before his normal intro
Sam to get the horses in or out of the waggon you undo part C while holding part A and standing on part F
Just like on the IkIA book cases
I cannot be the only one looking forward to Sams 3d printed bodies for these waggons
OH GOD THOSE RATINGS!!!! I LOVE IT
A very fair assessment. Era 1 and 2 had the opportunity to be very exciting. But here we are.
You could probably fix those horses with a bit of very hot water from the kettle. Pour some over the bent leg, it will go floppier than it is already. While it's soft, hold the leg where you want it until it cools.
Those sheep look like they're making a movie called The Lamb Shank Redemption!
Now I know why I stuck with the Super Detail 1950/60's Hornby Dublo! Heads should be hanging in shame down in Margate.
SO MUCH EFFORT. YES. JUST THE BEST, HORNBY! WELL DONE!
No this was most definitely NOT blatant sarcasm and was TOTALLY sincere because they TOTALLY didn't re-cycle old tooling and lie about it! *cough cough*
The main problem here is they are basically the ONLY manufacturer who are actually making E1 models, aside from the Rapido Lion, so they have no competition in this area. No competition means they don't have to try hard at all to make their money from E1 models because they know if people WANT E1 models, they have no choice but to come to Hornby. And that makes them complacent. Detached from reality. We need someone else to step in and push them to make better quality models because this is pathetic. Allie Express quality. Probably should've called El Cheapo for assistance with this one xD
When you restart your live show, you just know the Lion and all the silly rolling stock are going to be right up there with the most requested! 😂😂😂🐏🐏🐏🐎🐎🐎
Can you stack the bottom layers of the sheep wagon infinitely? A sheep tower so to say
i need to know the answer to this.....
Brilliant suggestion.
Wow, I’ve always wanted the Hornby horse IKEA bookshelf and sheep prisons! 💀
Oh wow. I thought you were joking in the news episode where you said you'll get em yourself. It is as bad as I expected, but at least the build quality is better than the flatbeds and you get a few animals. While I don't have anything too much against the historical inaccuracies, I think they are about twice as expensive. The three coal wagons for 20-30£? With retailer discounts, I think it would be okay ( for me I think the coal wagon/Rocket tender looks cute). But the fact that these are over double that, combining with not enough livestock for the sheep wagons is unacceptable. Thank you for your sacrifice to warn us how horrible these are.
Every time a company ups it's price for silliness like this, it makes 3D printing look more attractive. Sam and tens of thousands of dedicated, and disgusted, consumers are standing up and saying, 'We don't like what you're selling, and we really don't like what you're charging for this ^%$#@. We'll print what we want if you won't. Have a Great Day...!"
I hope you "with handle care" when you assembled it.