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fun fact: Mike ditka, the Mike in the soda adds was also a popular football player and tv commentator at the time, so maybe we are getting football in some way. I wouldn't like that to be the secret or final boss bc in my opinion that'd be anti climactic
If I know toby, I am 99.999999314% sure he laid out all the hints to make us believe we'll get Undyne in this chapter just to pull a fast one on us and send Napstablook instead
@@bluedemontr-whisperofwind-2296 that really is a stunt Toby would pull, have the one time Nabsta gets sent out they end up in a dark world. You think thier dark world form would just be dapperblook?
It's a neat idea, but honestly my biggest issue with it is that it's founded on _entirely_ skippable dialogue. You can, theoretically, go the entire game so far without interacting with Undyne once. So from a writing standpoint it would be weird to have those conversations suddenly be crucial imo.
I really don't think that every Weird Route will involve corrupting a character, going on a mini-genocide and killing a Lightner. Aside from it feeling too formulaic, it also doesn't thematically fit. The name "Weird Route" is not random, it implies the result of these side paths will involve the game getting weird and the plot going off the rails. In my opinion, Spamton taking over Queen's mansion was as important to the Chapter 2 Weird Route as anything Noelle did. It essentially demolished the last third of Chapter 2 and turned it upside down. I believe this is what the Weird Routes will be about; They're not about rehashing Genocide, but about finding ways to derail the story. This way may not necessarily involve large amounts of violence in every Chapter. There is a prophecy foretold millenia ago, an experiment set up across time and space, a game with one ending, and you have a part to play in it. What happens if you decide that you won't play along? Well, things may get a little Weird.
Ths is the first time I've heard this idea, but I love it. Especially with a game so inherently based on predetermination and control, the idea of deviating from it and changing the future, for the better or for the worse, works amazingly for a thematic "weird route"
yes i like this idea. it reminds of the bead toy in the hospital where it says something like “the beads march grimly on their set path” and after the weird route, a blue bead is broken off. it being broken off doesn’t have to mean death, it can just mean they got off the path that they were destined for. thus being weird. good idea!!
yes!! so glad someone mentioned this!! lots of characters r trying to break from their fates in the game, there's themes of learned helplessness/control/choices mattering, there's a sense of predetermination re the prophecy, and of course the "one ending..?" (which i suspect means one ending but with different contexts). it only makes sense this theme extends to the player, and the weird route is them/us trying to escape the set narrative, and wrestle control of the world. it's not just another genocide route!!
A smart deltarune fan who isnt cryceying baby style for mass murder evil kris chararara geno ending with ness the skalatan at the end with big ding paster?!?@?11!! Impossible
You know, that does actually sound more interesting than just killing off half the cast. Especially with the likely TV theme, maybe someone will even say something like “that wasn’t in the script”
This has probably been brought up already but I'm fairly certain that Mike being the TV guy was a red herring. That one page from the Spamton Sweepstakes ARG with the url "damn you tenna" implies that Mike was actually somebody who helped Spamton, while Tenna is actually the name of the TV guy. I'm also unsure if Ch.3 is gonna have a weird route in the same way Ch.2 did. Toriel seems less likely to be controlled by Kris than Noelle was, since she is their mother and we know how controlling she can get herself.
"Tenna" does seem more fitting a name for a TV anyway, given Toby's penchant for punny names. Because it's an older CRT TV with antennas. An Tenna. Lol
This would also still be neat on a smaller scale. Like a special toriel attack that you can only use after Kris takes damage or is downed would be cool.
I'd like to mention that Tasque Manager (along with Spamton) references Jevil, and Queen and King know eachother, so this isn't just exclusive to the secret bosses.
@@tawagoto_lol I think they are connected too. The doors just act as shortcuts for Lightners. Maybe Ralsei has a way to get around quickly too. Instead of land separating all these worlds, it's a black abyss, like what we saw when Kris first fell in Chapter 1, or what surrounds the beginning portion of Chapter 2. The worlds get "shut off" when the fountain is closed. But that's just a theory...Im not saying it
But those are all characters that have been established, in chapter one only jevil referenced queen, who at that point was unknown. Thus it still seems only secret bosses hint towards characters we haven’t met yet.
not to mention how Tenna (Relating to Antennas and TVs) is also somewhat suggested that he did something to Mike (Microphones possibly), so this could also all be a gigantic joke on "Video Killed the Radio Star"
Great video man! Totally agree with a lot of what you said. The Alphys fake-out was also really funny. And I 100% agree that there will be an enemy who embodies Toriel's failed marriage. Keep up the great work! 😁
Ayyye! It’s my fav crack theory maker. Cool to see the other creators check other deltarune vids too. We all fans at end of day I guess. Keep up good work
My big hard read is that Kris's Dark Fountain is a red herring. The chapter will start with Susie, Kris, and possibly Toriel waking up in the Dark World, but they seal it very quickly and without much effort. Then, later on the Knight creates another Dark Fountain for the Lancer Fan Club to jump into, which'll probably also be TV themed and likely have some of the same Darkners. The main reason I predict this is because I think that if Kris can make a Dark Fountain as soon as they learn that it's possible, that means any other Lightner can do it just as effortlessly, and at that point, the Knight becomes a lot less intimidating. I think the beginning of chapter 3 will be used to establish that, while any Lightner can make a dark fountain, only the Knight can make them as potent as can be.
I think that after Kris makes the dark fountain, Toriel will just say "Kris!" and the game will jump to a scene of Kris sleeping on the couch with Toriel telling them they have to go to school. Then something will happen either in school or in the dark world that will make them go home, but opening the door would lead to the chapter 3 dark world.
I feel like Undyne will be a very important character in the following chapters.... It's always been weird how insistent Kris was on telling Undyne the truth about the Dark Worlds. And if she gets to experience one first hand, she will of course believe it's true, and will also be very intruiged. Remember, nothing is happening in Hometown and she's very bored because of it. She would definitely jump on the opportunity to investigate the Dark Worlds. Note that the Dark Worlds are the result of someone going around and opening these fountains, so it's a safety issue and it should definitely concern her as a police officer. While I highly doubt she will appear in any more Dark Worlds, if Undyne actually initiates an investigation in the following chapters, she might play a role in unveiling the Knight's true identity (or at least "predict" the location of the fountain where we'll finally meet the Knight ourselves). She could even give us access to places where we otherwise wouldn't be able to get to, since she's basically our cop ally (maybe she gets permission to search the bunker and that's how we get in?). It would be cool to have a character supporting us behind the scenes doing all this investigating while we go on more adventures. EDIT: This might seem like it gives Undyne too much of a big role in the story, but I'm just basing this theory on the assumption that she will appear in Chapter 3. Because, it would be weird if this random NPC, with seemingly no connection to Kris appeared in the main story if they didn't have any other important role in the following chapters. At least with Toriel it makes sense, since she's Kris' mother.
I love this idea, i hope this happens. Who knows, maybe she was already planned in deltarune and reused in undertale, which mightve happened to toriel and asriel as well. Similar to my crackhead theory that undertale gaster was a reference to deltarunes actually relevant gaster.
This is just something that bothers me about the relationship between Kris and the player, but you are not automatically the villain. Yes, you do treat them as a vessel due to the intro kicking you out, but it’s more subtle than “You, the player are evil!!!”. Unless of course you choose to proceed with the weird route, in that case of course you are a villain.
No matter how much you do that's in favor of Kris while using them as a vessel, it is inherently immoral to control another without their express consent.
A big prediction I have is that both Mike and Tenna will be this chapter’s main bosses. This is because I’m a big believer in the chess theory, it just makes a lot of sense to me. A lot of this time we’ve been theorizing how the boss would be a Rook, but with the advent of two different possible characters going for that spot of main boss, I realized something. In chess, there are *2 rook pieces*. There’s only one king, and only one queen, but in Chapter 3 we might have to fight both of the rooks at once. Plus, the duo name “Mike and Tenna” gets that antenna pun in there.
This theory is sick, but I think it’s important to consider that maybe Undyne already came to the house. If Toriel called the police, why would she fall asleep before they came? And IIRC, didn’t the light on the left turn off? She would’ve had to get up to turn it off, perhaps when she talked to Undyne.
this is a good point! if she was worried enough to call the police, she’d probably be too worried to sleep without checking in with undyne to make sure things are alright. however it could be possible that toriel and undyne did already talk but undyne offered to keep watch around the house to find any suspicious behavior. so i don’t think it’s out of the question that undyne may be in ch3, but i definitely agree that it would be a little odd for toriel to just go “fuck it i sleep” after getting her tires slashed
@@holaiamdevil also good point! But also remember that Undyne is not only not the only police officer, but she’s the chief of police. I feel like it’d be unlikely that she’d personally come in the middle of the night, but that’s just what I think xD
one interesting theory i've seen is that, since Toriel apparently has a history of calling the police for minor things, then ASGORE is actually going to be the one who comes to the house and gets pulled into the dark world- turning the gameshow into Family Feud. reason being Undyne would be tired of Toriel's constant calls of minor things, probably thinks she's overreacting, and calls up Asgore, former chief of police, to basically say "Deal with your ex-wife please".
and the chapter starts as toriel makes cake and than her husbands come home and everything looks like the light world except the outfits... just would be funny.
Asgore referenced beauty and the beast right after toriel left sans' store... So youre right Im guessing the character dev in chapter 3 will be asgore and toriel getting forced into romance shiz and they somehow make amends BUT not get back together Something like undertale asgore "Tori... do you think we can at least be friends again?"
Listing out established hidden info is already a good utility for new fans of the series, but prediction requiring a level of creativity makes this a pretty exciting upload. I'd love to see more content like this if you're interested in it the future. =>
I'm gunna add a Weird Route prediction of my own: I think it could very easily fit with Undyne. The idea of Chapter 3 being a TV world, there's a possibility there could be a good cop / bad cop trope along with it. Or, maybe, the officer Toriel reached wasn't Undyne, but a much more anxious and impressionable character. With Napstablook instead being the one in the dark world, they'll be even more out of their element and thus even easier to control.
I agree, a TV world just makes the most sense especially with everything going on around spamton sweepstakes ( the green room, weather duo, mafia and cowboy clothes etc ). Of course Toby might just be trolling us but I have no idea what other theme it could have looking at what we gathered It's absolutely amazing how much potential deltarune has, new dark worlds could revolve around countless themes and cover different topics. I'm wondering how connected are chapters 3-5 concidering they are supposed to come out together/ very close to each other. Deltarune website has recently provided us with more evidence towards TVs but some images had chapter 4 in their title ( I'm reffering to the ones shown during Undertale's anniversary ). It's interesting that they show a lot from the light world, meanwhile we didn't get basically anything relating chapter 5. I guess it's beacuse the team is mainly working on ch 3 and 4. All we can do is wait, I'm looking forward to the future :)
I think its better that he doesnt show a peep of chapter 5, to still have that completely blind experience for at least one of them Heck, i wouldnt want them to show more than they have for ch4 at that, right now they should stick to showing off ch3 so people dont head in to 3 thinking "oh boy i cant wait for this one scene in chapter 5 i saw from the website be in action once i finish these other 2 chapters"
I think the TV thing is a cool idea, I’m just curious about how it would play out because there was a TV / game show section in Undertale with Mettaton. Unless Toby wants to draw a connection there in some roundabout way I doubt he’d want to repeat a setting or section.
I predict that Undyne will either never see the Dark World, or won't see it until the very end. We'll finish Chapter 3 only to find Napstablook outside our front door. Undyne sent him to investigate, but it looked pretty dark in there, so he spent the whole night standing in front of the door. But everything looks alright now, so he'll just go tell Undyne it was a false alarm. Just feels like a very Toby way of handling that situation.
I want to see a unique weird route for each chapter that connects to the previous after each fountain is sealed, eventually leading to chapter 7 being either a fight you win with your friends against whoever the Knight is (if it’s not Kris/you) or where you control the vessel you created at the start and have to fight everyone you manipulated in a boss rush style fight, the people you hurt coming in waves as Ralsei is the only one helping you since they’re the only one who never really knew Kris but they knew you from the start since you were always in control of Kris when in the dark world
18:40 another pattern I noticed was that chapters 1 and 2 both had a character with their own leitmotif who interacts with you throughout the chapter and then ends up being involved with the final boss, mixing the boss' theme with the other character's leitmotif. In particular, Lancer and Berdly. I am curious if this pattern will continue into chapter 3.
Before the two weather duo Darkner characters were introduced from the Spamton Sweepstakes, I always thought and theorized for a long while about how the orange and light blue soul will play a part in DELTARUNE’s future chapters now that the game has gameplay bullet mechanics of the 7 colored souls as was in Undertale; hence the standard red, for determination, and yellow, for justice, soul. Wouldn’t it be cool that we can interchange soul abilities for this part of the game? It would be interesting if these bosses would introduce that bullet gameplay mechanic; orange to keep moving; light blue to momentarily hold still pertaining to their respective light blue and orange colors going on. If it’s not them, I’d like to see it play on maybe newer, not revealed characters later down the line.
14:18 I actually don’t think Spamton is calling Mike a criminal. I think “the man” he’s referring to is actually the TV (Tenna), and he’s telling Kris not to believe what the TV says because the TV itself is a criminal.
Jevil and spamton are both part of groups of things, but are the one of those things you throw away. Jevil is supposed to be part of a deck, but for most games you throw away the joker card. Spamton was an addison, but he was the spam type of ads that you dont even really look at. Following this line of logic, the secret boss for chapter 3 would be based on something that comes in a group, but the one you dont want. Maybe a type of ad, but we already have the addisons. Maybe a specific channel, but i dont know enough about old cable to know if there was one channel that would have been disliked. Possibly shopping channel? Since thats what the spamton sweepstakes were on?
I have a theory that part of why the next chapters aren't being released one by one is because they, for some reason, can't be. Maybe the story splits in chapter 3 with the weird route, then comes back in chapter 5 to one unified story. I also hope that instead of Undyne in Ch3, we get Napstablook. I love Undyne, but we got to know her a lot better in UT than we did blooky, and it just seems like a very Toby thing to do to set up Undyne and give us Napstablook instead.
getting napstablook would ruin chp3 for me im sorry💀undyne and toriel have way too many connections (their relationships with asgore & undyne's weakness against heat/toriel's fire magic) for toby to just give us napstablook instead.
Anyone else think that in every chapter we will have to meet Sans to see Papyrus only to be blue balled in every chapter only for him to just show up to say “hi “ in the last chapter?
Few other media series have filled me with impatience for MORE like Deltarune has! That said, this time before actual releases are really fun too- analyses of existing information and theorizing about what's to come is so entertaining!
My prediction for a secret boss is something fairly straightforward and fitting with the chapter's theme, as that was the case both of the last two times. Specifically, I think it will be a restricted channel, perhaps Kris accidentally saw a movie as a kid where someone said "damn" and Toriel blocked the channel forever. It fits the past secret bosses' feelings of being unwanted, and if Toriel is indeed involved it could be a lesson on overprotective parenting.
I think I thing that might be worth looking into is why toby is choosing to release chapters 3,4 and 5 all at once! Perhaps they'll be more thematically linked than the previous 2 or perhaps it's that way to leave us on another cliffhanger!
I dokt think aside from likely 3 and 4 I doubt they have much more of a connection than 1 and 2 releasing 3 at once is just to justify the cost as people would likely react a little off if they had to pay for 1 chapter
I feel like Toby will release the 3 chapters that way because it'll stop directly at the climax Chapter 3 is exclusively the TV World, which happens during the night Chapter 4 will take place in the Light World during the day, where Kris and Susie just hang out together (with Noelle and Berdly perhaps?) and can return to Castle Town if they want to Chapter 5 would be either the time of the festival, a new Dark World or both, which ultimately leads to the climax of the story: the Roaring, cutting us off right here for a cliffhanger
@@Simbel why would chapter 4 just be the light world? you seriously think that's gonna cut it in terms of content? 10-40 minutes tops. every other chapter so far has taken at least 2 hours to complete
i havent finished the video so i dont know if this is mentioned, but the name "Mike" actually works really well for a tv themed boss/character. one, its just a generally common, somewhat boring name that youd hear on news broadcasting channels ("and what do you think, Mike?" "Thanks Lana, ..." smn like that) but it *also* is pronounced exactly the same as the word "mic" like "microphone" and we know that Toby loves using puns and double meanings:)
my idea for a secret boss would be a radio or something (as a reference to "video killed the radio star"), but I really like the idea of using the discarded flowers as a secret boss 🤔
Did you know? Did you know that there is a pattern from each chapter: chapter 1 is board games, chapter 2 is internet games, and chapter 3 might possibly be game shows.
I'm not sure i like the idea of a tv host type boss only because i think it will be too simmilar to mettaton. the fact the boss appears to be a crew of people, the "tenna crew" makes me interested if it will be a mafia type thing, or just a crew who film their shows in each area or something.
We might be caught in a gang dispute between a Mike and a Tenna. That would be refreshing. Though I wouldn't mind to have another Mettaton like character, I really liked him.
i honestly just hope that since 3 4 and 5 are releasing at the same time, i hope toby spreads them out and gives people room to breathe and predict what 4 and 5 would be. because the drop of chapter 2 EXPLODED and was talked about everywhere, if toby drops all of them at the same time we would get that explosion 3 different times in a short span and i dont think most people could take it.
As always, I *love* your theorizing! The Weird Route ideas you put out are incredibly interesting, and I certainly would like to see some of the things you put forward explored! The whole "control Kris, and through them, control the world around you" thing is so cool and I think quite possible! I don't really have anything insightful to say, I wish I did, but I enjoyed alot of these ideas, and will probably be thinking about them for a while!
I’m trying my best to do what Kris wants- like I told Ralsei they weren’t alright cause I knew from other people that’s truly what they wanna say. I will try and keep them on a morally good path if it comes to it, though Also hoping we see Undyne in her Royal Guard armor as well- maybe she’ll think it’s some magical girl SWAT gear
I don't think that the Weird Route of every chapter will be significantly darker. For example, a dark and heavy chapter might get a lighthearted and silly Weird Route, and there might be a chapter or two with no Weird Route, just so Toby can see the playground rumors spread like wildfire and watch people go on a wild goose chase for an alternate route that ultimately doesn't exist.
Great video! I can definitely see DR chapter 3 being like this, where we go through a bunch of movie genres whilst also being a pretty comical chapter. Something that I think is REALLY important when it comes to chapter 3 predictions is acknowledging the fact that this chapter will most likely have to do with relationships, specifically the ones between the Dreemurr's. So seeing that your idea of the secret boss being the embodiment of Toriels broken marriage is really interesting! I personally like to go with the idea that Mike, the chapter boss, will parallel Asgore (divorced and clingy guy), and that this chapter will be about Toriel and Mike trying to fix eachother's broken relationships. Not getting back with their partners, but just getting on better terms. I've always interpreted that the second person in Mike's relationship would be Spamton, as he seems to be very bitter about Mike. But with the new info from the Sweepstakes, it's quite likely that the 2nd person in this relationship could be 'Tenna'. I mean, just look at the Green room. One of the sofas is clean, and the other seems stale and possibly unused. Gives me massive 'there used to be two rulers before they divorced and now only one rules the dark world' vibes, like Asgore and Toriel from Undertale. Not to mention, the 2 chairs in the living room could resemble thrones, which pushes this theory even further. Finally, the fact that we learn about Tenna and Mike on the WEDDING RING page is very interesting. Spamton mentions a joke about poly relationships on the heart locket page. And on the chopping board page, he says that he's provided a red marker to cross out the Mrs or Mr if needed. What do we see on the TV on the Damn You Tenna page? A massive red cross!! Call me crazy, but I am suspecting a massive love triangle/poly relationship here. I think this could be the most interesting relationship ever written in Deltarune
The Spamton Sweepstakes, on one of the secret pages it reveals that Mike was a friend of spamtons, and Tenna is the one who hurt Mike, so we will most likely be fighting Tenna or who spamton refers to as the [BoobTube], In other words Tenna is the villain and when spamton was talking in the Q&A he refuses to talk about Mike as a way to protect him from harm
I think! (Tell me if this is a little crazy...) That the next secret boss might be the Tv REMOTE! As we saw in chapter two, the TV Remote was stuffed in between the couch cushions. Being cast aside! Not being used! And as you said the secret bosses were characters cast aside. A TV remote is also connected to a TV which is what I think the chapter 3 boss will be. If you remember in the spamton sweetstakes, back in the site where it had the crossed out TV The link was named "d_a_m_n_y_o_u_t_e_n_n_a"! Tenna... Like... LIKE ANTENNA!! I'm sure a lot of you could have gotten that. But still! Maybe this secret boss will be the cast aside Tv Remote, they are locked in like a cushion area or something. Going on the idea of freedom and freewill that deltarune has been putting out there. What else is a remote called. A CONTROLER! I REST MY CASE! But I like this idea and think it could be extremely interesting! PLEASE tell me your thoughts!
While i do concur that the themes of control would go really well with the remote, TV remotes aren’t really items that you commonly throw out. Joker cards get thrown out because most games don’t use them. Spam emails get thrown out because they’re annoying and are usually malicious in some way. For me, i think some form of lost media or outdated technology would my picks as ch.3’s SB candidate.
@@mrperson4542 I mean, yeah. But it goes by a case by case basis. What made me think it was the remote was because in kris's house hold they don't use the Tv at all. And the remote was stuck in the cushions meaning, who knows how long it could have been there. That was my reasoning. But we will never know until chapters 3, 4, and 5 come out.
Not to mention, there's so many times in real life when people just loose their TV remotes randomly and have a lot of trouble finding it. So I feel like it will fit perfectly into the discarding theme. But the asgore's flowers also fit the bill, so maybe one or both of these is wrong, but maybe, just maybe, it's a sign that toby is going to have none or two secret bosses in chapter 3 (which I think would be a nice way to change things up).
I believe that Toriel will function much like Susie did in Chapter 1, where she sort of just does her own thing. I just don’t find it very likely that she would take orders from her own child (or us as the player). It’s far more likely that she would try to take charge in order to protect Kris, even if that goes against what the player wants her to do. Now it is possible that there will be a mechanic that lets us persuade her to be more of a fighter or more of a healer depending on what she believes is best for Kris, but I find it unlikely that we’ll be able to control her directly, at least at first.
When you started talking about how the secret bosses were discarded things once held in high regard i actually thought you were going to mention the videogame console since it was a bonding item for kris and asriel which seems to be forgotten bc of asriels absence
Well, if it was *just* items that have been discarded then a large chunk of the items within the house could be considered the SB. The How to Draw Dragons book, the TV remote, etc. While i do agree SBs will be items that have been discarded in some way, they’ll also be items that not only directly correlate with the main theme of the Dark World but are also items that are *meant* to be discarded/commonly discarded. The video games, while not in use currently, aren’t really items that people would throw out.
Ok, I'm not gonna go into specifics, but here are some thoughts I'm having on the upcoming chapters in general. Chapter 3 - Chapter 3's going to be story heavy and is gonna contain propably a lot of emotional moments, propably a few reveals too. I'm basing that of of how little we saw of it during the update(I consider the sweepstakes secrets part of the update). Chapter 4 - I think that chapter 4 is going to start in the light world and we're going to stay there for a while before entering the dark world, I also think that it will have a lot of lore, but also it will give us some time to think through the events of the previous chapter(s?). Chapter 5 - I don't think they have started working on chapter 5 yet, so I really have no idea what could happen in it, but if I had to make a prediction, I'd say Chapter 5 is gonna be the first point of no return, something major will happen propably leading up to the eventual finale in Chapter 7 Chapter 6&7 - In my opinion these two chapters are gonna be heavily tied together, propably could be mashed together into one chapter if you wanted that, I can't say anything more, because of lack of basis.
I don't think either Berdly or Noelle will appear on the dark world of the 3rd chapter But maybe the interactions with them will change on the overworld. Berdly on the hospital unconscious, Noelle more active in class maybe. But form the 3rd chapter it might just have to do with Toriel, and maybe Undyne since the police were called, like you mentioned :D
🎉To everyone watching on the day of release of this video, Remember that Tomorrow at 8 O'clock, The Art Club Meeting is taking place in hotland! Be there or be very apologetic! 😁😉
17:04: This Joker card specifically portrays an Arlecchino, one of the archetypes of the Commedia dell'Arte. The Arlecchino is part of the servant group and is known for his shifty behavior. He seems to jump between the real and some other world, looking like a mad man to his fellows, but also seemingly knowing something which the others don't. I think, that fits Jevil nicely - and Spamton G. Spamton loosely.
when it comes to speculation with the next chapter it makes me wonder a few things, one, if toriel gets pulled into the new dark world (which is very likely), how will she react to seeing ralsei? and if this interaction takes place, will ralsei acknowledge the existence of asriel? maybe he already knows about asriel? and it also makes me think if and when we come across tenna and/ or mike, how spamton’s story will tie into their characters and how his story will continue on, and hell maybe even jevil, since these are all characters who are known to have crossed paths with the knight at some point, and maybe tenna and/ or mike will be one of these types of characters, anyways sorry for rambling, everything is so up in the air rn lmao
I like the idea of the flowers being the secret boss and I'm not gonna argue it won't happen, but what'd be even cooler is something relating to a show writer going mad because his producers wouldn't let him have any freedom with his show (which would connect with the themes from the other secret bosses lacking/wanting freedom) and they could more easily have a connection with the final boss who could be a show producer. Don't know what the real would equivalent could be but the weather enemies only have a real world connection if you count the weather channel so maybe there real world connection could be a documentary of their down fall or a TV show on its last episode, canceled due to low viewers, bad advertising and/or the producers ruining the show. Like I said, I think that a flower secret boss is more likely but I just like this concept more.
I've been a supporter of what you've suggested for chapter 3 weird route for some time, but I've also been a fan of the idea that, while it will involve taking a dive in a lot of fights, it won't be for Toriel, but rather it will lead to Undyne jumping in front of a fatal attack to protect you, like how she sacrifices herself saving Monster Kid in the UT genocide route. This could also be a cool moment where Undyne turns Undying, fights and annihilates the boss, but then dies from the determination, so she's gone/dusted by the time the dark fountain is sealed, making sure no one actually figures out what happened to her. I also want to consider the possibility of the secret boss being Kris' horned headband from when they were a kid. A few people suggest ralsei is actually that headband, but I don't really like this idea. I think it's more interesting if they're a secret boss, because they fit perfectly into the "once important, now discarded and abandoned item," and would be able to potentially reveal a lot about Kris from the time they once spent with them.
I already have a MAJOR prediction for Chapter 3 which I'm working on a script for. I've predicted major elements from how the light world ties into this chapter, how Noelle will be relevant to the chapter, and most importantly how the secret boss will be discovered (and I have a FULL prediction from start to finish on that last one)
@@personexisting123 that's assuming all of chapter 3 takes place in Kris' house, which is entirely the opposite of how my theory goes. It's a bit elaborate to explain in a UA-cam comment, but the basic idea is that Chapter 3 will actually feature multiple sub-dark worlds that appear throughout the town, all caused by Tenna, which I believe is short for TV Antenna, having the ability to transmit themself across town. There is actually a decent amount of evidence to back this up, especially when considering some of the other details in my prediction, but I can't get into it here.
@@massiveidiot77 I'll be working on a video for it on an alternate channel called JamPaktGames in a little while. The video won't be ready for a while because I caught covid right when I started the script and am just getting better, but if you subscribe over there it should be ready some time soon hopefully. (Though that also depends how long it takes our animator to do the visuals for the video haha)
So, I doubt this will be seen, but the areas could be Cooking Show, Game Show, and News(not specifically in that order) as they were plot points in Undertale. Now I know Toby said to think of Deltarune separate of Undertale, but there are connections and this may be one. One of the characters could possibly Mettaton due to their television history. This just popped in my head randomly, and the more I thought about it, the more it made sense in my mind. Thanks for reading my rant.
Yes! Finally another prediction video from you. I genuinely cannot tell you how much I love the work and effort you put into your videos, especially your theories one. They're all so well-crafted and actually plausible and you give such credible amount of evidence.
if the flower-based secret boss is real, i think it would be great if you met them and they looked exactly like flowey from undertale, but still remained a separate character. it could also go with the "someone is trying to connect undertale to deltarune" theory. this was an amazing video!
at the end of chapter 2, susie talks about how going into dark worlds and having adventures is fun, so maybe kris just created a dark fountain so that their friendship wouldn’t end and they could keep having adventures
potential chapter 3 bosses: Mike - the video says it all Tenna - Like, We heard this name recently so it might be it and Mike could've been just a red herring?(maybe? idk) Bishop - Based off of chess theory; look it up Jack - You've (might've) heard of chess theory, so get ready for: Card Theory! Here it goes: King - Queen - Jack
One thing I am VERY much expecting, is that Chapter 3's "Weird Route", will be the Player INTENTIONALLY going out of their way to stop Kris' plan of getting Undyne's help...Likely by Manipulating Toriel, just as you did Noelle, into Killing her, Likely with Fire Magic (Which would also be a pretty neat thematic tie to the last time you did so.)
I have my own theory/ prediction. It aligns with Chess theory and The Spamton Sweepstakes. I think Chapter 3 will have two main antagonists. For starters, we currently have two names for a protentional bosses. Mike and Tenna (This is irreverent to the prediction, but Tenna makes me think Tina) so there is already a case to be made for two bosses. The Chess Theory element is the fact that chess theory says that "Mike" will be a rook. Well in chess there are TWO rooks. This works because there is one king and queen in chess. Just food for thought.
I know everyone wants it to be Undyne, because of the whole police thing, but knowing Toby I wouldn't put it past him to make it someone like Napstablook instead
Okay, but guys. I've noticed one character… a previous TV character… go unnoticed. What if good ol’ Mettaton had a return? An edit as I continue to watch. If they’re all discarded items… what about that pair of red horns? I’ve always had faith in Ralsei, you see. But… if there’s really a theme with discarded items, then Ralsei plays an opportunity to be our 7th and final boss.
I’d really like if mike was like a star in the dark world and tenna is the director, forcing him to make show after show. I’d also really like if we kept seeing the dark fountain, but the director keeps pulling us away, as if they were “artificially” lengthening a show. *WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH! YOU CANT LEAVE JUST YET! WE STILL HAVE A SEASON 2 TO PRODUCE! *YOU GUYS ARE A BIG HIT! *Do we REALLY have to do this? *YES.
The idea I immediately got after hearing about the "discarded item boss" (18:30) was a kind of sponsor that was changed. Like lets say Mike was sponsored by one brand for a really long time, but then suddenly, he gets a new sponsor. I imagine this old sponsor will have been Mike's old friend. Maybe they started whatever is going on in the TV world together, and then when Mike got the new sponsor, he cast them aside. This would give a very interesting dynamic between the secret boss and main villain we havent yet seen that i think would be really interesting.
it could be mike rook (sounds like crook) which fits with the idea the big bads are chess related, and also fits perfectly with how you think they will act
Suzie and ralsei learned how to act on their own in chapter 2, largely rendering kris's ability to tell others what to do redundant. I'd like for Kris to learn something in this chapter to replace that. I think that something that might fit into the themes of control might be too outright allow Kris to choose what to do on their own. Maybe even allowing that to spill over into a choice you can make in dialogue
I was going insane trying to fix the audio (on rare occation, the videos are muted through my headset) when I check the comments and realize it's not an issue on my end
That smile on the TV is what I originally thought was Sans's (though I'm most likely wrong as after a check on the similarities, they're too different to host any connections). Potentially the theoretic plan to lure Undyne might end up luring Napstablook instead...? Since we don't get much from them in Undertale other than 'depressed ghost cousin of Mettaton', it'd be a cool way to elaborate further on their character in this sort of alternate universe.
18:59 I would say it's more likely that the secret boss has something to do with the action figures on the windows since they were once used in a game by asreil and Kris as well as they were probably in a lot of commercials so they would fit perfectly as a secret boss
What I think happened with snowgrave/chap 3 is Toby released it with branching paths in mind, but we found snowgrave long before chap 3 is coming out, so Toby decided to make the chapters release together to make room for new content for a little while longer to keep everyone satisfied before chapter 7 or something releases
I think that Mike will be like queen without the villain part. He will pop in every now and again say something like a one liner and watch from behind, like a reporter/news anchor, but he will be the secret boss, and will have a big metaton like showdown, with a bunch of games and all that
I’m most excited to see Toriel in the next chapter and her dynamic with all the characters. She’s caring yet stern. Protective.. but maybe a little bit OVER-protective.
My initial thought was that there would be three characters that will prove to be important in the next chapter. We have the television. People believe this is ‘mike’, whom was mentioned by Spamton: ‘Kris, dont believe anything you see on tv, the mans a criminal’. However, like a lot of others, the spamton sweepstakes hinted that the television isn’t mike. Spamton believes that the ‘cathode’ crew is the big bad, and that he wants to get rid of everyone except mike. Therefore, we can assume mike is friends with spamton, meaning he isn’t the tv. The television is most likely Tenna, who is seemingly disliked by Spamton. Now here’s my theory: Mike isn’t the tv, he’s the phone. Obviously mike can be a play kn MicroPHONE, and we know that the phone is one of the more key objects in the kitchen/tv room. So we have tenna as the tv, Mike as the phone. What could be the secret boss: The flowers in the trash can OR the remote. The flowers in the trash are a likely bet, and seeing as they follow the unwanted theme that is prominent within the secret bosses of each chapter. They are also linked to toriel. However, this may not be possible as giving toriel the flowers is only optional. Therefore, what else could be unwanted. The remote. Susie finds the remote lodged between the couch cushions, which follows a unwanted/abandoned theme. And to those that say ‘susie used the remote and its no longer in the couch cushions’ Kris (in trance mode) briefly stopped by susie after turning the tv on and shutting the door. Could they have lodged the remote back into the couch. TLDR: Tenna is the TV Mike is the Phone The secret boss is either the flowers in the trash or the remote
You forgot to mention the Chess Theory, and how we could see the bosses for each chapter being based on the different pieces in Chess; King, Queen, Rook, Bishop, Knight, and Pawn. Since we know about King, Queen and Knight. we could see Rook as the Ch.3 boss and Bishop as the Ch.4 boss. Also, my only complaint about Toriel/Asgore's trashed flowers as the secret boss is that we see a set of flowers in Asgore's shop, which could easily become a boss in a dark world in Asgore's shop, with these flowers being based on the Undertale souls. Plus, since we see a pair of doors in that same room as the flowers, it's likely we could see a dark world in this shop.
Gonna guess that it'll be: Western (With Undyne as Sherrif) Cooking Show (With Toriel being very confused, either captured or as a contestant, or both) Kaiju Movie (With Suzy. C'mon, the TV shows a purple monster wrecking the city. Look at Suzy. Tell me she wouldn't JUMP at that opportunity)
Going on your idea of a discarded character being a secret boss, I wonder if the discarded vessel you create will ever become a secret boss. It’d maybe feel a bit cliche with it being a Kris lookalike but I wouldn’t be surprised if Toby would give the beginning sequence a bigger meaning this way.
Very interesting video. I like the guesses you make, and I agree the thrown away flowers has a good chance of being the secret boss. And yes as you say yourself, I found your channel because of deltarune chapter 2 videos. I like the way you break it all down and your voice is nice to listen too. Also yes, I confuse you with swankybox on more then one occasion. Idk why, it’s just so similar to me
at 6:15 you can see eyes in the books. The same eyes that the titans have and the same eyes that were in the first area at the beginning of the game in chapter 1.
I know people talk a lot about Undynes apperance and her involvement. But ?? I Cannot stop thinking that the 'police' that shows up to the house is napstablook ??? We see that they work at the station and that would put Tori and them in the chapter together in parallel to them both being the big Ruins encounters in Undertale ? I dunno I have been pretty stuck on that idea.
I’m honestly in love with the idea you had for the secret boss being sort of an AU Flowey and then having Toriel help you fight it. The idea also feels like something I could see Toby doing, especially in a TV themed Dark World since TV is known to reference other works a lot or have crossovers (just look at the MCU) and so having the secret boss be a Flowey reference would make sense, be really cool, and work as some massive fan service.
Here's an idea. With each chapter boss possibly referencing chess pieces, since we have the king and the queen, perhaps chapter 3 will have the bishop in the form of one of those late night televangelists.
i feel like the Church will actually hold the Bishop character; at the end of Chapter 2, Rudy tells Noelle in the hospital that he'll be healthy enough to make it to church tomorrow. If Chapter 3 is taking place during the night+early morning, Chapter 4 is taking place around the middle of the day- when Noelle would be at Church. This brings in the opportunity for her to continue trying to figure out what's up with Kris from the end of the Weird Route, and potentially for us to continue using and manipulating her. After all, the ThornRing only ever gets used once... I like to think that Chapter 3's antagonist- the TV- will be the Rook equivalent (Or possibly Rooks plural, if we assume that "Mike" and "Tenna" are separate people. Mike And Tenna sounds like Mike Antenna, and also ties back to Spamton Sweepstakes' mention of a "Cathode Crew" .)
i think noelle's response in the real world to the snowgrave route isn't just "confidence" and "newfound desire to control her life." it's denial. she checks to see if susie doesn't have a tail and is perfectly satisfied with hearing a "no." she doesn't want her "dream" to have been real. when she refuses to give up control of her video game to her dad, that's her reacting to having had her agency taken away from her during her "dream." she's reacting to the trauma she experienced at the hands of the player.
My choice for a secret boss in chapter 3 is a broken radio, in reference to television killing radio, as well as being an amalgamation of rejected television. He is depressed, and non chalant. Just a broken character who just wants to murder anyone who supports Mike (the suppose villain who resembles a television). And because Kris and Susie like television, he confuses you as Mike Sympathizers. I call him VQ Revo Roberts. VQ smokes a lot of cigarettes, in reference to those 1950s smoking commercials. In fact, he likes making references to forgotten television in that era. And I think his setting would be a run down, forgotten drug store if you want to shop from him. His boss setting would be in a forgotten, run down baseball field. VQ and Mike might have had a nasty past. The fight ends when VQ would die by choking on some tobacco, which was considered cool to smoke back in the 50s. Where you would receive the shadow crystal. Just an idea though…
If we go with the theory that the secrets are thing that are unloved and discarded the 3rd secret boss might be the representation of a once beloved tv show who slowly got worse as time goes on, losing viewers and ultimately being canceled and forgotten. Thats my theory
I think it would be cool if Toby Fox released one chapter every November December giving us one chapter per year which would be cool because it took about a year to rip chapter 2 apart and get every little secret
instead of Toriel giving into Kris i think it’d be more like Susie where she tries to spare the enemies so you’d have to tell the enemies to ignore her and then you kill them
That’s terrifying! That would be pretty spooky, but i think the game has made it clear that we can not control Susie’s actions, and the manipulation we did with Noelle will not work with Susie. I don’t know tho, but that’s a good prediction!
@@CompactStar actually Hapstablook is Papyrus's headcanon for the ghosts name (that he doesn't know is Mettaton I'm p sure) it's from one of his phone calls
The Joker, the most powerful card, usually considered a wild card, and yet... is so often cast aside during card games for the sake of fairness and balance. No wonder Jevil was left in the card box, the world of the cards, while the rest were left scattered after their games were played and their towers fell.
![Deltarune Chapter 2 SPAMTON [Pipis] (Easter Eggs, Secrets, References & Spamton NEO Boss Fight)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FHeQbitFiSU/mqdefault.jpg)
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fun fact: Mike ditka, the Mike in the soda adds was also a popular football player and tv commentator at the time, so maybe we are getting football in some way. I wouldn't like that to be the secret or final boss bc in my opinion that'd be anti climactic
Its so cool that you are helping small games
@@2leftthumbs im thinking the secret boss is going to be part of a commercial for the main bosses show
You ever considered the outfit theme changes cuz they go In and out of tvs for different worlds
Oh my god, I never thought that Kris was trying to lure Undyne into a dark world to prove it's real. That's such a good observation.
If I know toby, I am 99.999999314% sure he laid out all the hints to make us believe we'll get Undyne in this chapter just to pull a fast one on us and send Napstablook instead
@@bluedemontr-whisperofwind-2296 honestly probably
@@bluedemontr-whisperofwind-2296 that really is a stunt Toby would pull, have the one time Nabsta gets sent out they end up in a dark world. You think thier dark world form would just be dapperblook?
My issue with that idea was susies insistence at the start that "nobody else finds out", and the fact that kris has some level of respect for Susie
It's a neat idea, but honestly my biggest issue with it is that it's founded on _entirely_ skippable dialogue. You can, theoretically, go the entire game so far without interacting with Undyne once. So from a writing standpoint it would be weird to have those conversations suddenly be crucial imo.
I really don't think that every Weird Route will involve corrupting a character, going on a mini-genocide and killing a Lightner. Aside from it feeling too formulaic, it also doesn't thematically fit.
The name "Weird Route" is not random, it implies the result of these side paths will involve the game getting weird and the plot going off the rails. In my opinion, Spamton taking over Queen's mansion was as important to the Chapter 2 Weird Route as anything Noelle did. It essentially demolished the last third of Chapter 2 and turned it upside down. I believe this is what the Weird Routes will be about; They're not about rehashing Genocide, but about finding ways to derail the story. This way may not necessarily involve large amounts of violence in every Chapter.
There is a prophecy foretold millenia ago, an experiment set up across time and space, a game with one ending, and you have a part to play in it. What happens if you decide that you won't play along? Well, things may get a little Weird.
Ths is the first time I've heard this idea, but I love it. Especially with a game so inherently based on predetermination and control, the idea of deviating from it and changing the future, for the better or for the worse, works amazingly for a thematic "weird route"
yes i like this idea. it reminds of the bead toy in the hospital where it says something like “the beads march grimly on their set path” and after the weird route, a blue bead is broken off. it being broken off doesn’t have to mean death, it can just mean they got off the path that they were destined for. thus being weird. good idea!!
yes!! so glad someone mentioned this!! lots of characters r trying to break from their fates in the game, there's themes of learned helplessness/control/choices mattering, there's a sense of predetermination re the prophecy, and of course the "one ending..?" (which i suspect means one ending but with different contexts). it only makes sense this theme extends to the player, and the weird route is them/us trying to escape the set narrative, and wrestle control of the world. it's not just another genocide route!!
A smart deltarune fan who isnt cryceying baby style for mass murder evil kris chararara geno ending with ness the skalatan at the end with big ding paster?!?@?11!!
Impossible
You know, that does actually sound more interesting than just killing off half the cast. Especially with the likely TV theme, maybe someone will even say something like “that wasn’t in the script”
This has probably been brought up already but I'm fairly certain that Mike being the TV guy was a red herring. That one page from the Spamton Sweepstakes ARG with the url "damn you tenna" implies that Mike was actually somebody who helped Spamton, while Tenna is actually the name of the TV guy.
I'm also unsure if Ch.3 is gonna have a weird route in the same way Ch.2 did. Toriel seems less likely to be controlled by Kris than Noelle was, since she is their mother and we know how controlling she can get herself.
Plot twist. Toriel steals control from YOU instead and orders Kris around.
I had a theory that only even numbers would have Weird routes (2,4,6)
I think Mike did do something bad but Spamton probably forgives it
"Tenna" does seem more fitting a name for a TV anyway, given Toby's penchant for punny names. Because it's an older CRT TV with antennas. An Tenna.
Lol
i wonder why no one has thought that tenna and mike could be the same person, or that mike is also bad, considering that spamton calls him a criminal
The idea of letting Kris get hurt to get Toriel's "mother goat" mode to activate in the Weird Route makes a lot of sense, really neat theory.
This would also still be neat on a smaller scale. Like a special toriel attack that you can only use after Kris takes damage or is downed would be cool.
I'd like to mention that Tasque Manager (along with Spamton) references Jevil, and Queen and King know eachother, so this isn't just exclusive to the secret bosses.
Seam also knew Queen. But Jevil spoiled the game for them anyway.
maybe the dark worlds were connected and for some reason they broke apart
@@tawagoto_lol I think they are connected too. The doors just act as shortcuts for Lightners. Maybe Ralsei has a way to get around quickly too. Instead of land separating all these worlds, it's a black abyss, like what we saw when Kris first fell in Chapter 1, or what surrounds the beginning portion of Chapter 2. The worlds get "shut off" when the fountain is closed. But that's just a theory...Im not saying it
But those are all characters that have been established, in chapter one only jevil referenced queen, who at that point was unknown. Thus it still seems only secret bosses hint towards characters we haven’t met yet.
@@capadociaash8003 Yeah I get that but you are ignoring the fact that other characters seemingly know eachother :/
I think Tenna (hinted in the Spamton sweepstakes) is gonna play a bit of a role in this chapter. After all, Tenna is eerily similar to Antenna...
not to mention how Tenna (Relating to Antennas and TVs) is also somewhat suggested that he did something to Mike (Microphones possibly), so this could also all be a gigantic joke on "Video Killed the Radio Star"
@@godsclown4419 Darn I just thought of that song reference too
Anne Tenna
yea
Tenna gonna be the TV
Great video man! Totally agree with a lot of what you said. The Alphys fake-out was also really funny. And I 100% agree that there will be an enemy who embodies Toriel's failed marriage. Keep up the great work! 😁
hi jarujaru!!!!!
Yeah
You and halfbread? I wonder if I'll find anymore Deltatubers in the comments haha
Ayyye! It’s my fav crack theory maker. Cool to see the other creators check other deltarune vids too. We all fans at end of day I guess. Keep up good work
yo its Jaru!
My big hard read is that Kris's Dark Fountain is a red herring. The chapter will start with Susie, Kris, and possibly Toriel waking up in the Dark World, but they seal it very quickly and without much effort. Then, later on the Knight creates another Dark Fountain for the Lancer Fan Club to jump into, which'll probably also be TV themed and likely have some of the same Darkners.
The main reason I predict this is because I think that if Kris can make a Dark Fountain as soon as they learn that it's possible, that means any other Lightner can do it just as effortlessly, and at that point, the Knight becomes a lot less intimidating. I think the beginning of chapter 3 will be used to establish that, while any Lightner can make a dark fountain, only the Knight can make them as potent as can be.
I think that after Kris makes the dark fountain, Toriel will just say "Kris!" and the game will jump to a scene of Kris sleeping on the couch with Toriel telling them they have to go to school. Then something will happen either in school or in the dark world that will make them go home, but opening the door would lead to the chapter 3 dark world.
@@hl5217Alphys says that there's no school the next day
I feel like Undyne will be a very important character in the following chapters....
It's always been weird how insistent Kris was on telling Undyne the truth about the Dark Worlds. And if she gets to experience one first hand, she will of course believe it's true, and will also be very intruiged. Remember, nothing is happening in Hometown and she's very bored because of it. She would definitely jump on the opportunity to investigate the Dark Worlds. Note that the Dark Worlds are the result of someone going around and opening these fountains, so it's a safety issue and it should definitely concern her as a police officer.
While I highly doubt she will appear in any more Dark Worlds, if Undyne actually initiates an investigation in the following chapters, she might play a role in unveiling the Knight's true identity (or at least "predict" the location of the fountain where we'll finally meet the Knight ourselves). She could even give us access to places where we otherwise wouldn't be able to get to, since she's basically our cop ally (maybe she gets permission to search the bunker and that's how we get in?). It would be cool to have a character supporting us behind the scenes doing all this investigating while we go on more adventures.
EDIT: This might seem like it gives Undyne too much of a big role in the story, but I'm just basing this theory on the assumption that she will appear in Chapter 3. Because, it would be weird if this random NPC, with seemingly no connection to Kris appeared in the main story if they didn't have any other important role in the following chapters. At least with Toriel it makes sense, since she's Kris' mother.
-Also DELTARUNE is both a sequel and a prequel, the Roaring has already happened, Gaster intentionally fell into the CORE and Sans cloned himself-
We know she'll do something. One of the previews for chapter 4 is set in front of the police station, and it's closed...
@@Zoukos23 I see you’re very sure of your self, im intrigued, what makes you believe this?
I love this idea, i hope this happens.
Who knows, maybe she was already planned in deltarune and reused in undertale, which mightve happened to toriel and asriel as well. Similar to my crackhead theory that undertale gaster was a reference to deltarunes actually relevant gaster.
@@Icedonot don't bother they're probably talking about fangames
This is just something that bothers me about the relationship between Kris and the player, but you are not automatically the villain. Yes, you do treat them as a vessel due to the intro kicking you out, but it’s more subtle than “You, the player are evil!!!”.
Unless of course you choose to proceed with the weird route, in that case of course you are a villain.
No matter how much you do that's in favor of Kris while using them as a vessel, it is inherently immoral to control another without their express consent.
@@crumchy4752 Yeah, but the player doesn't have a choice in it either, really.
@@kimjongunsucksbooty750 you do have a point there. Like we are forced to control by a certain someone
@@kimjongunsucksbooty750 what if you just stop playing
A big prediction I have is that both Mike and Tenna will be this chapter’s main bosses. This is because I’m a big believer in the chess theory, it just makes a lot of sense to me. A lot of this time we’ve been theorizing how the boss would be a Rook, but with the advent of two different possible characters going for that spot of main boss, I realized something. In chess, there are *2 rook pieces*. There’s only one king, and only one queen, but in Chapter 3 we might have to fight both of the rooks at once. Plus, the duo name “Mike and Tenna” gets that antenna pun in there.
oh man... does that mean we're getting a boss rush with the pawns?
@@KyrieFortune following this logic, the “pawns” would probably be the discarded vessels and Kris, so probably yes.
This theory is sick, but I think it’s important to consider that maybe Undyne already came to the house. If Toriel called the police, why would she fall asleep before they came? And IIRC, didn’t the light on the left turn off? She would’ve had to get up to turn it off, perhaps when she talked to Undyne.
this is a good point! if she was worried enough to call the police, she’d probably be too worried to sleep without checking in with undyne to make sure things are alright. however it could be possible that toriel and undyne did already talk but undyne offered to keep watch around the house to find any suspicious behavior. so i don’t think it’s out of the question that undyne may be in ch3, but i definitely agree that it would be a little odd for toriel to just go “fuck it i sleep” after getting her tires slashed
@@holaiamdevil also good point! But also remember that Undyne is not only not the only police officer, but she’s the chief of police. I feel like it’d be unlikely that she’d personally come in the middle of the night, but that’s just what I think xD
I mean, Undyne could've offered to stay watch outside the house in case anything else happened
@@gorypons5321 omg can you imagine napstablook bein the one to go
one interesting theory i've seen is that, since Toriel apparently has a history of calling the police for minor things, then ASGORE is actually going to be the one who comes to the house and gets pulled into the dark world- turning the gameshow into Family Feud.
reason being Undyne would be tired of Toriel's constant calls of minor things, probably thinks she's overreacting, and calls up Asgore, former chief of police, to basically say "Deal with your ex-wife please".
and the chapter starts as toriel makes cake and than her husbands come home and everything looks like the light world except the outfits... just would be funny.
Asgore referenced beauty and the beast right after toriel left sans' store...
So youre right
Im guessing the character dev in chapter 3 will be asgore and toriel getting forced into romance shiz and they somehow make amends BUT not get back together
Something like undertale asgore
"Tori... do you think we can at least be friends again?"
Wait, where is it shown or said that Toriel calls the police for minor things?
to be fair, toriel specifically tells undyne the tires are slashed. undyne knows this one is serious
@@Beowolf-jy5rc yeah that could be something
Listing out established hidden info is already a good utility for new fans of the series, but prediction requiring a level of creativity makes this a pretty exciting upload. I'd love to see more content like this if you're interested in it the future. =>
I'm gunna add a Weird Route prediction of my own:
I think it could very easily fit with Undyne. The idea of Chapter 3 being a TV world, there's a possibility there could be a good cop / bad cop trope along with it.
Or, maybe, the officer Toriel reached wasn't Undyne, but a much more anxious and impressionable character. With Napstablook instead being the one in the dark world, they'll be even more out of their element and thus even easier to control.
I agree, a TV world just makes the most sense especially with everything going on around spamton sweepstakes ( the green room, weather duo, mafia and cowboy clothes etc ). Of course Toby might just be trolling us but I have no idea what other theme it could have looking at what we gathered
It's absolutely amazing how much potential deltarune has, new dark worlds could revolve around countless themes and cover different topics. I'm wondering how connected are chapters 3-5 concidering they are supposed to come out together/ very close to each other. Deltarune website has recently provided us with more evidence towards TVs but some images had chapter 4 in their title ( I'm reffering to the ones shown during Undertale's anniversary ). It's interesting that they show a lot from the light world, meanwhile we didn't get basically anything relating chapter 5. I guess it's beacuse the team is mainly working on ch 3 and 4. All we can do is wait, I'm looking forward to the future :)
I think that's exactly why he revealed those screenshots, I mean why wouldn't they be Chapter 3?
I think its better that he doesnt show a peep of chapter 5, to still have that completely blind experience for at least one of them
Heck, i wouldnt want them to show more than they have for ch4 at that, right now they should stick to showing off ch3 so people dont head in to 3 thinking "oh boy i cant wait for this one scene in chapter 5 i saw from the website be in action once i finish these other 2 chapters"
I think the TV thing is a cool idea, I’m just curious about how it would play out because there was a TV / game show section in Undertale with Mettaton. Unless Toby wants to draw a connection there in some roundabout way I doubt he’d want to repeat a setting or section.
I predict that Undyne will either never see the Dark World, or won't see it until the very end. We'll finish Chapter 3 only to find Napstablook outside our front door. Undyne sent him to investigate, but it looked pretty dark in there, so he spent the whole night standing in front of the door. But everything looks alright now, so he'll just go tell Undyne it was a false alarm.
Just feels like a very Toby way of handling that situation.
Yup, very Toby. Would make a lot of sense.
I want to see a unique weird route for each chapter that connects to the previous after each fountain is sealed, eventually leading to chapter 7 being either a fight you win with your friends against whoever the Knight is (if it’s not Kris/you) or where you control the vessel you created at the start and have to fight everyone you manipulated in a boss rush style fight, the people you hurt coming in waves as Ralsei is the only one helping you since they’re the only one who never really knew Kris but they knew you from the start since you were always in control of Kris when in the dark world
18:40 another pattern I noticed was that chapters 1 and 2 both had a character with their own leitmotif who interacts with you throughout the chapter and then ends up being involved with the final boss, mixing the boss' theme with the other character's leitmotif. In particular, Lancer and Berdly. I am curious if this pattern will continue into chapter 3.
Before the two weather duo Darkner characters were introduced from the Spamton Sweepstakes, I always thought and theorized for a long while about how the orange and light blue soul will play a part in DELTARUNE’s future chapters now that the game has gameplay bullet mechanics of the 7 colored souls as was in Undertale; hence the standard red, for determination, and yellow, for justice, soul. Wouldn’t it be cool that we can interchange soul abilities for this part of the game? It would be interesting if these bosses would introduce that bullet gameplay mechanic; orange to keep moving; light blue to momentarily hold still pertaining to their respective light blue and orange colors going on. If it’s not them, I’d like to see it play on maybe newer, not revealed characters later down the line.
14:18 I actually don’t think Spamton is calling Mike a criminal. I think “the man” he’s referring to is actually the TV (Tenna), and he’s telling Kris not to believe what the TV says because the TV itself is a criminal.
Jevil and spamton are both part of groups of things, but are the one of those things you throw away. Jevil is supposed to be part of a deck, but for most games you throw away the joker card. Spamton was an addison, but he was the spam type of ads that you dont even really look at. Following this line of logic, the secret boss for chapter 3 would be based on something that comes in a group, but the one you dont want. Maybe a type of ad, but we already have the addisons. Maybe a specific channel, but i dont know enough about old cable to know if there was one channel that would have been disliked. Possibly shopping channel? Since thats what the spamton sweepstakes were on?
Or maybe a lost remote or something
One of those infomercials lol /hj
Ooh I like the idea of a channel that people avoid. Maybe it's a specific show that when it comes on, people switch channels to avoid it
Public access tv?
The weather channel
I have a theory that part of why the next chapters aren't being released one by one is because they, for some reason, can't be. Maybe the story splits in chapter 3 with the weird route, then comes back in chapter 5 to one unified story.
I also hope that instead of Undyne in Ch3, we get Napstablook. I love Undyne, but we got to know her a lot better in UT than we did blooky, and it just seems like a very Toby thing to do to set up Undyne and give us Napstablook instead.
But if we get Undyne, we might get to see the green soul mechanic in Deltarune!
getting napstablook would ruin chp3 for me im sorry💀undyne and toriel have way too many connections (their relationships with asgore & undyne's weakness against heat/toriel's fire magic) for toby to just give us napstablook instead.
Chapter 3 has to address Berdly somehow, so maybe
Anyone else think that in every chapter we will have to meet Sans to see Papyrus only to be blue balled in every chapter only for him to just show up to say “hi “ in the last chapter?
Toby Humor ™️
no, clearly in chapter 7 sans will be like "you can see my brother tomorrow" like we'll still be playing after chapter 7
Few other media series have filled me with impatience for MORE like Deltarune has! That said, this time before actual releases are really fun too- analyses of existing information and theorizing about what's to come is so entertaining!
My prediction for a secret boss is something fairly straightforward and fitting with the chapter's theme, as that was the case both of the last two times. Specifically, I think it will be a restricted channel, perhaps Kris accidentally saw a movie as a kid where someone said "damn" and Toriel blocked the channel forever. It fits the past secret bosses' feelings of being unwanted, and if Toriel is indeed involved it could be a lesson on overprotective parenting.
I think I thing that might be worth looking into is why toby is choosing to release chapters 3,4 and 5 all at once! Perhaps they'll be more thematically linked than the previous 2 or perhaps it's that way to leave us on another cliffhanger!
oh yeah completely forgot about that, do you think that they all will be in the same dark world or 3 different ones?
@@Cookiekopter Toby has already revealed screen from Chapter 4. And all of those scenes (except two in Castle Town) take place in the Light World.
I dokt think aside from likely 3 and 4 I doubt they have much more of a connection than 1 and 2 releasing 3 at once is just to justify the cost as people would likely react a little off if they had to pay for 1 chapter
I feel like Toby will release the 3 chapters that way because it'll stop directly at the climax
Chapter 3 is exclusively the TV World, which happens during the night
Chapter 4 will take place in the Light World during the day, where Kris and Susie just hang out together (with Noelle and Berdly perhaps?) and can return to Castle Town if they want to
Chapter 5 would be either the time of the festival, a new Dark World or both, which ultimately leads to the climax of the story: the Roaring, cutting us off right here for a cliffhanger
@@Simbel why would chapter 4 just be the light world? you seriously think that's gonna cut it in terms of content? 10-40 minutes tops. every other chapter so far has taken at least 2 hours to complete
i havent finished the video so i dont know if this is mentioned, but the name "Mike" actually works really well for a tv themed boss/character. one, its just a generally common, somewhat boring name that youd hear on news broadcasting channels ("and what do you think, Mike?" "Thanks Lana, ..." smn like that)
but it *also* is pronounced exactly the same as the word "mic" like "microphone" and we know that Toby loves using puns and double meanings:)
my idea for a secret boss would be a radio or something (as a reference to "video killed the radio star"), but I really like the idea of using the discarded flowers as a secret boss 🤔
Did you know? Did you know that there is a pattern from each chapter: chapter 1 is board games, chapter 2 is internet games, and chapter 3 might possibly be game shows.
I'm not sure i like the idea of a tv host type boss only because i think it will be too simmilar to mettaton. the fact the boss appears to be a crew of people, the "tenna crew" makes me interested if it will be a mafia type thing, or just a crew who film their shows in each area or something.
We might be caught in a gang dispute between a Mike and a Tenna. That would be refreshing. Though I wouldn't mind to have another Mettaton like character, I really liked him.
i honestly just hope that since 3 4 and 5 are releasing at the same time, i hope toby spreads them out and gives people room to breathe and predict what 4 and 5 would be. because the drop of chapter 2 EXPLODED and was talked about everywhere, if toby drops all of them at the same time we would get that explosion 3 different times in a short span and i dont think most people could take it.
I’m also not keen to be potentially spoiled of 3 chapters the day they all release 🐸
Well, now he only releases 3 and 4
As always, I *love* your theorizing! The Weird Route ideas you put out are incredibly interesting, and I certainly would like to see some of the things you put forward explored! The whole "control Kris, and through them, control the world around you" thing is so cool and I think quite possible! I don't really have anything insightful to say, I wish I did, but I enjoyed alot of these ideas, and will probably be thinking about them for a while!
I’m trying my best to do what Kris wants- like I told Ralsei they weren’t alright cause I knew from other people that’s truly what they wanna say.
I will try and keep them on a morally good path if it comes to it, though
Also hoping we see Undyne in her Royal Guard armor as well- maybe she’ll think it’s some magical girl SWAT gear
I don't think that the Weird Route of every chapter will be significantly darker. For example, a dark and heavy chapter might get a lighthearted and silly Weird Route, and there might be a chapter or two with no Weird Route, just so Toby can see the playground rumors spread like wildfire and watch people go on a wild goose chase for an alternate route that ultimately doesn't exist.
15:47 nice transition from the heart to the red bowtie
Can't belive not many people talked about that, it was so clean
Great video! I can definitely see DR chapter 3 being like this, where we go through a bunch of movie genres whilst also being a pretty comical chapter.
Something that I think is REALLY important when it comes to chapter 3 predictions is acknowledging the fact that this chapter will most likely have to do with relationships, specifically the ones between the Dreemurr's. So seeing that your idea of the secret boss being the embodiment of Toriels broken marriage is really interesting! I personally like to go with the idea that Mike, the chapter boss, will parallel Asgore (divorced and clingy guy), and that this chapter will be about Toriel and Mike trying to fix eachother's broken relationships. Not getting back with their partners, but just getting on better terms.
I've always interpreted that the second person in Mike's relationship would be Spamton, as he seems to be very bitter about Mike. But with the new info from the Sweepstakes, it's quite likely that the 2nd person in this relationship could be 'Tenna'. I mean, just look at the Green room. One of the sofas is clean, and the other seems stale and possibly unused. Gives me massive 'there used to be two rulers before they divorced and now only one rules the dark world' vibes, like Asgore and Toriel from Undertale. Not to mention, the 2 chairs in the living room could resemble thrones, which pushes this theory even further.
Finally, the fact that we learn about Tenna and Mike on the WEDDING RING page is very interesting. Spamton mentions a joke about poly relationships on the heart locket page. And on the chopping board page, he says that he's provided a red marker to cross out the Mrs or Mr if needed. What do we see on the TV on the Damn You Tenna page? A massive red cross!!
Call me crazy, but I am suspecting a massive love triangle/poly relationship here. I think this could be the most interesting relationship ever written in Deltarune
The Spamton Sweepstakes, on one of the secret pages it reveals that Mike was a friend of spamtons, and Tenna is the one who hurt Mike, so we will most likely be fighting Tenna or who spamton refers to as the [BoobTube], In other words Tenna is the villain and when spamton was talking in the Q&A he refuses to talk about Mike as a way to protect him from harm
I think! (Tell me if this is a little crazy...) That the next secret boss might be the Tv REMOTE!
As we saw in chapter two, the TV Remote was stuffed in between the couch cushions. Being cast aside! Not being used! And as you said the secret bosses were characters cast aside. A TV remote is also connected to a TV which is what I think the chapter 3 boss will be. If you remember in the spamton sweetstakes, back in the site where it had the crossed out TV
The link was named "d_a_m_n_y_o_u_t_e_n_n_a"! Tenna... Like... LIKE ANTENNA!! I'm sure a lot of you could have gotten that. But still! Maybe this secret boss will be the cast aside Tv Remote, they are locked in like a cushion area or something. Going on the idea of freedom and freewill that deltarune has been putting out there. What else is a remote called. A CONTROLER! I REST MY CASE! But I like this idea and think it could be extremely interesting! PLEASE tell me your thoughts!
While i do concur that the themes of control would go really well with the remote, TV remotes aren’t really items that you commonly throw out. Joker cards get thrown out because most games don’t use them. Spam emails get thrown out because they’re annoying and are usually malicious in some way.
For me, i think some form of lost media or outdated technology would my picks as ch.3’s SB candidate.
@@mrperson4542 I mean, yeah. But it goes by a case by case basis. What made me think it was the remote was because in kris's house hold they don't use the Tv at all. And the remote was stuck in the cushions meaning, who knows how long it could have been there. That was my reasoning. But we will never know until chapters 3, 4, and 5 come out.
I do like your idea though. I'm just coming up with crack pot theorys.
Not to mention, there's so many times in real life when people just loose their TV remotes randomly and have a lot of trouble finding it. So I feel like it will fit perfectly into the discarding theme. But the asgore's flowers also fit the bill, so maybe one or both of these is wrong, but maybe, just maybe, it's a sign that toby is going to have none or two secret bosses in chapter 3 (which I think would be a nice way to change things up).
I swear ive seens omebody make a concept of this exact idea.
I believe that Toriel will function much like Susie did in Chapter 1, where she sort of just does her own thing. I just don’t find it very likely that she would take orders from her own child (or us as the player). It’s far more likely that she would try to take charge in order to protect Kris, even if that goes against what the player wants her to do. Now it is possible that there will be a mechanic that lets us persuade her to be more of a fighter or more of a healer depending on what she believes is best for Kris, but I find it unlikely that we’ll be able to control her directly, at least at first.
When you started talking about how the secret bosses were discarded things once held in high regard i actually thought you were going to mention the videogame console since it was a bonding item for kris and asriel which seems to be forgotten bc of asriels absence
Oh, that's a good idea!
So many possibilitys!!
Well, if it was *just* items that have been discarded then a large chunk of the items within the house could be considered the SB. The How to Draw Dragons book, the TV remote, etc.
While i do agree SBs will be items that have been discarded in some way, they’ll also be items that not only directly correlate with the main theme of the Dark World but are also items that are *meant* to be discarded/commonly discarded. The video games, while not in use currently, aren’t really items that people would throw out.
That's is pretty similar to what I was thinking. I think that the action figures would be the secret boss
I've been all over hearing and jumping onto so many theories for Chapter 3, it's nice to see them compiled into one video!
Oh hey it’s TheAdvertisement
Ok, I'm not gonna go into specifics, but here are some thoughts I'm having on the upcoming chapters in general.
Chapter 3 - Chapter 3's going to be story heavy and is gonna contain propably a lot of emotional moments, propably a few reveals too. I'm basing that of of how little we saw of it during the update(I consider the sweepstakes secrets part of the update).
Chapter 4 - I think that chapter 4 is going to start in the light world and we're going to stay there for a while before entering the dark world, I also think that it will have a lot of lore, but also it will give us some time to think through the events of the previous chapter(s?).
Chapter 5 - I don't think they have started working on chapter 5 yet, so I really have no idea what could happen in it, but if I had to make a prediction, I'd say Chapter 5 is gonna be the first point of no return, something major will happen propably leading up to the eventual finale in Chapter 7
Chapter 6&7 - In my opinion these two chapters are gonna be heavily tied together, propably could be mashed together into one chapter if you wanted that, I can't say anything more, because of lack of basis.
I don't think either Berdly or Noelle will appear on the dark world of the 3rd chapter
But maybe the interactions with them will change on the overworld.
Berdly on the hospital unconscious, Noelle more active in class maybe.
But form the 3rd chapter it might just have to do with Toriel, and maybe Undyne since the police were called, like you mentioned :D
🎉To everyone watching on the day of release of this video, Remember that Tomorrow at 8 O'clock, The Art Club Meeting is taking place in hotland! Be there or be very apologetic! 😁😉
17:04: This Joker card specifically portrays an Arlecchino, one of the archetypes of the Commedia dell'Arte.
The Arlecchino is part of the servant group and is known for his shifty behavior. He seems to jump between the real and some other world, looking like a mad man to his fellows, but also seemingly knowing something which the others don't.
I think, that fits Jevil nicely - and Spamton G. Spamton loosely.
when it comes to speculation with the next chapter it makes me wonder a few things, one, if toriel gets pulled into the new dark world (which is very likely), how will she react to seeing ralsei? and if this interaction takes place, will ralsei acknowledge the existence of asriel? maybe he already knows about asriel? and it also makes me think if and when we come across tenna and/ or mike, how spamton’s story will tie into their characters and how his story will continue on, and hell maybe even jevil, since these are all characters who are known to have crossed paths with the knight at some point, and maybe tenna and/ or mike will be one of these types of characters, anyways sorry for rambling, everything is so up in the air rn lmao
I don’t think Toriel will meet Ralsei personally
@@Lulleebee i feel like it’s inevitable though, even if it’s a minor reaction
21:04 - ALMOST. There is slight change in battle with the King depending on wheather you let someone run from your ffight or not
I like the idea of the flowers being the secret boss and I'm not gonna argue it won't happen, but what'd be even cooler is something relating to a show writer going mad because his producers wouldn't let him have any freedom with his show (which would connect with the themes from the other secret bosses lacking/wanting freedom) and they could more easily have a connection with the final boss who could be a show producer. Don't know what the real would equivalent could be but the weather enemies only have a real world connection if you count the weather channel so maybe there real world connection could be a documentary of their down fall or a TV show on its last episode, canceled due to low viewers, bad advertising and/or the producers ruining the show. Like I said, I think that a flower secret boss is more likely but I just like this concept more.
I've been a supporter of what you've suggested for chapter 3 weird route for some time, but I've also been a fan of the idea that, while it will involve taking a dive in a lot of fights, it won't be for Toriel, but rather it will lead to Undyne jumping in front of a fatal attack to protect you, like how she sacrifices herself saving Monster Kid in the UT genocide route. This could also be a cool moment where Undyne turns Undying, fights and annihilates the boss, but then dies from the determination, so she's gone/dusted by the time the dark fountain is sealed, making sure no one actually figures out what happened to her.
I also want to consider the possibility of the secret boss being Kris' horned headband from when they were a kid. A few people suggest ralsei is actually that headband, but I don't really like this idea. I think it's more interesting if they're a secret boss, because they fit perfectly into the "once important, now discarded and abandoned item," and would be able to potentially reveal a lot about Kris from the time they once spent with them.
I already have a MAJOR prediction for Chapter 3 which I'm working on a script for. I've predicted major elements from how the light world ties into this chapter, how Noelle will be relevant to the chapter, and most importantly how the secret boss will be discovered (and I have a FULL prediction from start to finish on that last one)
I’d be interested to see how Noelle would be involved, as she seemingly won’t be in chapter 3
@@personexisting123 that's assuming all of chapter 3 takes place in Kris' house, which is entirely the opposite of how my theory goes. It's a bit elaborate to explain in a UA-cam comment, but the basic idea is that Chapter 3 will actually feature multiple sub-dark worlds that appear throughout the town, all caused by Tenna, which I believe is short for TV Antenna, having the ability to transmit themself across town. There is actually a decent amount of evidence to back this up, especially when considering some of the other details in my prediction, but I can't get into it here.
Where will you post this full script it sounds super interesting
@@GameJam230 Ooh, cool idea.
@@massiveidiot77 I'll be working on a video for it on an alternate channel called JamPaktGames in a little while. The video won't be ready for a while because I caught covid right when I started the script and am just getting better, but if you subscribe over there it should be ready some time soon hopefully. (Though that also depends how long it takes our animator to do the visuals for the video haha)
So, I doubt this will be seen, but the areas could be Cooking Show, Game Show, and News(not specifically in that order) as they were plot points in Undertale. Now I know Toby said to think of Deltarune separate of Undertale, but there are connections and this may be one. One of the characters could possibly Mettaton due to their television history. This just popped in my head randomly, and the more I thought about it, the more it made sense in my mind. Thanks for reading my rant.
Yes! Finally another prediction video from you. I genuinely cannot tell you how much I love the work and effort you put into your videos, especially your theories one. They're all so well-crafted and actually plausible and you give such credible amount of evidence.
if the flower-based secret boss is real, i think it would be great if you met them and they looked exactly like flowey from undertale, but still remained a separate character. it could also go with the "someone is trying to connect undertale to deltarune" theory. this was an amazing video!
at the end of chapter 2, susie talks about how going into dark worlds and having adventures is fun, so maybe kris just created a dark fountain so that their friendship wouldn’t end and they could keep having adventures
That doesn't make much sense after a weird route.
@@PikaPenny17 im not saying thats what happened, its just something to think about
potential chapter 3 bosses:
Mike - the video says it all
Tenna - Like, We heard this name recently so it might be it and Mike could've been just a red herring?(maybe? idk)
Bishop - Based off of chess theory; look it up
Jack - You've (might've) heard of chess theory, so get ready for: Card Theory! Here it goes: King - Queen - Jack
One thing I am VERY much expecting, is that Chapter 3's "Weird Route", will be the Player INTENTIONALLY going out of their way to stop Kris' plan of getting Undyne's help...Likely by Manipulating Toriel, just as you did Noelle, into Killing her, Likely with Fire Magic (Which would also be a pretty neat thematic tie to the last time you did so.)
Oh. I made this comment before you addressed that. I hadn't seen Swankybox's Theory, but I stand by it
@@Sugar_Crash1 like fainting all the times
I have my own theory/ prediction. It aligns with Chess theory and The Spamton Sweepstakes. I think Chapter 3 will have two main antagonists. For starters, we currently have two names for a protentional bosses. Mike and Tenna (This is irreverent to the prediction, but Tenna makes me think Tina) so there is already a case to be made for two bosses. The Chess Theory element is the fact that chess theory says that "Mike" will be a rook. Well in chess there are TWO rooks. This works because there is one king and queen in chess. Just food for thought.
I know everyone wants it to be Undyne, because of the whole police thing, but knowing Toby I wouldn't put it past him to make it someone like Napstablook instead
Okay, but guys. I've noticed one character… a previous TV character… go unnoticed. What if good ol’ Mettaton had a return?
An edit as I continue to watch. If they’re all discarded items… what about that pair of red horns? I’ve always had faith in Ralsei, you see. But… if there’s really a theme with discarded items, then Ralsei plays an opportunity to be our 7th and final boss.
I think Undyne being a detective makes sense, she'd be like a Blue Herring.
I’d really like if mike was like a star in the dark world and tenna is the director, forcing him to make show after show.
I’d also really like if we kept seeing the dark fountain, but the director keeps pulling us away, as if they were “artificially” lengthening a show.
*WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH! YOU CANT LEAVE JUST YET! WE STILL HAVE A SEASON 2 TO PRODUCE!
*YOU GUYS ARE A BIG HIT!
*Do we REALLY have to do this?
*YES.
I think that the secret boss in chapter 3 is going to be a VHS player since it’s discarded technology that has to do with a TV world.
A VHC player or even the video tapes themselves could work well as the SB
I think in Deltarune chapter 3 Undyne could lose her eye depending on your choices just like how in chapter 2 Berdly loses his arm.
This game is gonna be soooo good...
Can't wait for the full release
The idea I immediately got after hearing about the "discarded item boss" (18:30) was a kind of sponsor that was changed. Like lets say Mike was sponsored by one brand for a really long time, but then suddenly, he gets a new sponsor. I imagine this old sponsor will have been Mike's old friend. Maybe they started whatever is going on in the TV world together, and then when Mike got the new sponsor, he cast them aside. This would give a very interesting dynamic between the secret boss and main villain we havent yet seen that i think would be really interesting.
it could be mike rook (sounds like crook) which fits with the idea the big bads are chess related, and also fits perfectly with how you think they will act
Suzie and ralsei learned how to act on their own in chapter 2, largely rendering kris's ability to tell others what to do redundant. I'd like for Kris to learn something in this chapter to replace that. I think that something that might fit into the themes of control might be too outright allow Kris to choose what to do on their own. Maybe even allowing that to spill over into a choice you can make in dialogue
I was going insane trying to fix the audio (on rare occation, the videos are muted through my headset) when I check the comments and realize it's not an issue on my end
That smile on the TV is what I originally thought was Sans's (though I'm most likely wrong as after a check on the similarities, they're too different to host any connections).
Potentially the theoretic plan to lure Undyne might end up luring Napstablook instead...? Since we don't get much from them in Undertale other than 'depressed ghost cousin of Mettaton', it'd be a cool way to elaborate further on their character in this sort of alternate universe.
18:59 I would say it's more likely that the secret boss has something to do with the action figures on the windows since they were once used in a game by asreil and Kris as well as they were probably in a lot of commercials so they would fit perfectly as a secret boss
What I think happened with snowgrave/chap 3 is Toby released it with branching paths in mind, but we found snowgrave long before chap 3 is coming out, so Toby decided to make the chapters release together to make room for new content for a little while longer to keep everyone satisfied before chapter 7 or something releases
I think that Mike will be like queen without the villain part. He will pop in every now and again say something like a one liner and watch from behind, like a reporter/news anchor, but he will be the secret boss, and will have a big metaton like showdown, with a bunch of games and all that
If the revers Undertale theory is true, the ruler could be a scientist who films themselves fighting monsters but secretly makes them.
I’m most excited to see Toriel in the next chapter and her dynamic with all the characters. She’s caring yet stern. Protective.. but maybe a little bit OVER-protective.
This is EXACTLY what I predict, nice job, feels really well thought out
My initial thought was that there would be three characters that will prove to be important in the next chapter.
We have the television. People believe this is ‘mike’, whom was mentioned by Spamton: ‘Kris, dont believe anything you see on tv, the mans a criminal’. However, like a lot of others, the spamton sweepstakes hinted that the television isn’t mike.
Spamton believes that the ‘cathode’ crew is the big bad, and that he wants to get rid of everyone except mike. Therefore, we can assume mike is friends with spamton, meaning he isn’t the tv.
The television is most likely Tenna, who is seemingly disliked by Spamton.
Now here’s my theory:
Mike isn’t the tv, he’s the phone.
Obviously mike can be a play kn MicroPHONE, and we know that the phone is one of the more key objects in the kitchen/tv room.
So we have tenna as the tv, Mike as the phone.
What could be the secret boss:
The flowers in the trash can OR the remote.
The flowers in the trash are a likely bet, and seeing as they follow the unwanted theme that is prominent within the secret bosses of each chapter. They are also linked to toriel.
However, this may not be possible as giving toriel the flowers is only optional.
Therefore, what else could be unwanted.
The remote.
Susie finds the remote lodged between the couch cushions, which follows a unwanted/abandoned theme. And to those that say ‘susie used the remote and its no longer in the couch cushions’
Kris (in trance mode) briefly stopped by susie after turning the tv on and shutting the door. Could they have lodged the remote back into the couch.
TLDR:
Tenna is the TV
Mike is the Phone
The secret boss is either the flowers in the trash or the remote
Undyne: *knocks on door*
"Hmm no response..."
*walks away*
*running charge to bash in the door*
You forgot to mention the Chess Theory, and how we could see the bosses for each chapter being based on the different pieces in Chess; King, Queen, Rook, Bishop, Knight, and Pawn. Since we know about King, Queen and Knight. we could see Rook as the Ch.3 boss and Bishop as the Ch.4 boss.
Also, my only complaint about Toriel/Asgore's trashed flowers as the secret boss is that we see a set of flowers in Asgore's shop, which could easily become a boss in a dark world in Asgore's shop, with these flowers being based on the Undertale souls. Plus, since we see a pair of doors in that same room as the flowers, it's likely we could see a dark world in this shop.
I was really surprised by not seeing you on the deltarune madman stream, The Deltacast.
No stream tap to retry theory is definitely one of the best theories out there, I’m glad you brought it up!
I know! I also think the please try again when connected theory has some evidence for the future!
Gonna guess that it'll be:
Western (With Undyne as Sherrif)
Cooking Show (With Toriel being very confused, either captured or as a contestant, or both)
Kaiju Movie (With Suzy. C'mon, the TV shows a purple monster wrecking the city. Look at Suzy. Tell me she wouldn't JUMP at that opportunity)
Going on your idea of a discarded character being a secret boss, I wonder if the discarded vessel you create will ever become a secret boss. It’d maybe feel a bit cliche with it being a Kris lookalike but I wouldn’t be surprised if Toby would give the beginning sequence a bigger meaning this way.
Very interesting video. I like the guesses you make, and I agree the thrown away flowers has a good chance of being the secret boss. And yes as you say yourself, I found your channel because of deltarune chapter 2 videos. I like the way you break it all down and your voice is nice to listen too. Also yes, I confuse you with swankybox on more then one occasion. Idk why, it’s just so similar to me
at 6:15 you can see eyes in the books. The same eyes that the titans have and the same eyes that were in the first area at the beginning of the game in chapter 1.
Was that a leaked footage thing? I thought it was a fangame thing- /lh
I know people talk a lot about Undynes apperance and her involvement.
But ?? I Cannot stop thinking that the 'police' that shows up to the house is napstablook ??? We see that they work at the station and that would put Tori and them in the chapter together in parallel to them both being the big Ruins encounters in Undertale ? I dunno I have been pretty stuck on that idea.
I’m honestly in love with the idea you had for the secret boss being sort of an AU Flowey and then having Toriel help you fight it. The idea also feels like something I could see Toby doing, especially in a TV themed Dark World since TV is known to reference other works a lot or have crossovers (just look at the MCU) and so having the secret boss be a Flowey reference would make sense, be really cool, and work as some massive fan service.
Here's an idea. With each chapter boss possibly referencing chess pieces, since we have the king and the queen, perhaps chapter 3 will have the bishop in the form of one of those late night televangelists.
i feel like the Church will actually hold the Bishop character; at the end of Chapter 2, Rudy tells Noelle in the hospital that he'll be healthy enough to make it to church tomorrow. If Chapter 3 is taking place during the night+early morning, Chapter 4 is taking place around the middle of the day- when Noelle would be at Church.
This brings in the opportunity for her to continue trying to figure out what's up with Kris from the end of the Weird Route, and potentially for us to continue using and manipulating her. After all, the ThornRing only ever gets used once...
I like to think that Chapter 3's antagonist- the TV- will be the Rook equivalent (Or possibly Rooks plural, if we assume that "Mike" and "Tenna" are separate people. Mike And Tenna sounds like Mike Antenna, and also ties back to Spamton Sweepstakes' mention of a "Cathode Crew" .)
i think noelle's response in the real world to the snowgrave route isn't just "confidence" and "newfound desire to control her life." it's denial. she checks to see if susie doesn't have a tail and is perfectly satisfied with hearing a "no." she doesn't want her "dream" to have been real. when she refuses to give up control of her video game to her dad, that's her reacting to having had her agency taken away from her during her "dream." she's reacting to the trauma she experienced at the hands of the player.
My choice for a secret boss in chapter 3 is a broken radio, in reference to television killing radio, as well as being an amalgamation of rejected television. He is depressed, and non chalant. Just a broken character who just wants to murder anyone who supports Mike (the suppose villain who resembles a television). And because Kris and Susie like television, he confuses you as Mike Sympathizers. I call him VQ Revo Roberts. VQ smokes a lot of cigarettes, in reference to those 1950s smoking commercials. In fact, he likes making references to forgotten television in that era. And I think his setting would be a run down, forgotten drug store if you want to shop from him. His boss setting would be in a forgotten, run down baseball field. VQ and Mike might have had a nasty past. The fight ends when VQ would die by choking on some tobacco, which was considered cool to smoke back in the 50s. Where you would receive the shadow crystal.
Just an idea though…
If we go with the theory that the secrets are thing that are unloved and discarded the 3rd secret boss might be the representation of a once beloved tv show who slowly got worse as time goes on, losing viewers and ultimately being canceled and forgotten. Thats my theory
I think it would be cool if Toby Fox released one chapter every November December giving us one chapter per year which would be cool because it took about a year to rip chapter 2 apart and get every little secret
I think a fun bait and switch would be if it were napstablook who responds to the call and ends up in the dark world rather than undyne
... starts playing spoopy mix tracks....
instead of Toriel giving into Kris i think it’d be more like Susie where she tries to spare the enemies so you’d have to tell the enemies to ignore her and then you kill them
That’s terrifying! That would be pretty spooky, but i think the game has made it clear that we can not control Susie’s actions, and the manipulation we did with Noelle will not work with Susie. I don’t know tho, but that’s a good prediction!
i like your theory videos a lot! keep up the good work!
the thing im most interested about is how snowgrave will affect chapter 3, more specifically berdly
I was literally just thinking about this
Why do your videos come out exactly when I need them
I really think Napstablook and Hapstablook will be pulled into the tv word and we'll see Hapsta become Mettaton.
yesssss
Kinda agree!!!
Is that hapstablook name even canon, I thought mettaton was called mettaton even in his ghost form but could be wrong
@@CompactStar actually Hapstablook is Papyrus's headcanon for the ghosts name (that he doesn't know is Mettaton I'm p sure) it's from one of his phone calls
The Joker, the most powerful card, usually considered a wild card, and yet... is so often cast aside during card games for the sake of fairness and balance. No wonder Jevil was left in the card box, the world of the cards, while the rest were left scattered after their games were played and their towers fell.