Outstanding! Thank you very much! It’s hard to pick the right tools when you are getting started and we rely on the tube for our information. I try to always keep that in mind. Thank you again.
Great video, only 2 things I disagree with is, I don’t see JD being a manual bender a negative but a positive. RF is locked into using a pneumatic cylinder where JD can do both. Also if you had the JD on hydraulics it’s footprint and set up ability would be the exact same. You could use a cart because it no longer needs to be floor mounted. I think the ONLY advantage of the RF is like you set allowing the multiple blocks to be mounded for off set or recentered bends. Also people give both of these 2 companies too much credit. They both stole their general designs from OLD benders and companies. They were not innovative. They just got the blueprint from older companies benders and copied them to make their own version. So be other downside of RF is their pricing. They advertise being some of the most affordable quality budget benders. But once you go to check out it’s more expensive than the JD2 which IMO is mid to high end DIY benders. And their design is MUCH cheaper to produce just by materials used. JD uses 3/4 to 1” stock where RF uses 10g to 14g materials. MASSIVE difference in cost to mfg.
Maybe try not to hit the skip button so much, I cover all of this in the video. The added cost to make the JD2 pneumatic makes it actually cost more than the RF. I give both companies tons of credit and I couldn't find any "OLD" benders still for sale so that is kind of a moot point. Thank you for you input, I look forward to seeing your comparison video of the two...
Can I share some clips from this video on a video I’m working on while building my rogue fab bender? I want to show some projects other people have done
Hey Man! Great comparison video. I run a JD2 M32 that has been modded with an air over hydro cylinder. The custom stand has locking wheels and bends on a vertical plane to take advantage of the digital angle finder trick. I hear you on the just pull it out and bend one thing necessity. The clamp block setup on the Rouge looks to be a game changer, especially if you're designing digitally. The accuracy must be great, but more importantly I bet the repeatability is almost dead nuts! Excellent Symmetry on a tube chassis can be so important especially with high-end builds. Keep up the great work my friend 👍4000 subs!!!! 👏
Thank you Ken. I was close to making the same setup for my JD2 when I figured out how I could use the blocks on the RF to make multiple symmetrical bends. It was tough to get a new bender after making a good chassis with the JD2, but honestly I’m really glad I did. The second and third chassis went together quickly and easily using that block setup. And since the JD2 is such a great bender selling it was quick and easy. In the end I think it cost me $100 to switch to the Rogue Fab. Thank you for the comment 🖖
I really like the design of th vf1 and i personally love ve in the rockies and am currently trying to discover how i can use the deaign and add 4wd. Crosscarts are awesome but im curious as to how the variable frame can adapt to 4wd simply.
I think the bend quality on a jd2 model 32 is much better than the rogue , I've been bending a tube chassis 1 3/4 4wd .120 wall 8 seater buggy for my family to go to the sand dunes and making it street legal .
It’s been almost three years since I posted this video but I’m pretty sure I say that same exact thing. Well except the 8 seater part 😁. Cool build and I hope it turns out to be everything you hope it to be 👍
Oh I know! I am so pumped to get some action videos that aren’t in my back yard. I designed and built these to be just as much fun to play in a semi small area (I have 2 acres), as it would in a wide open space or even on a track. Thank you for the comment 🖖
Cut my teeth on an old Hossfeld manual bender. I've since bought a JD² Model 3 bender and a Mittler Brothers 180 degree hydraulic bender. My JD² bender is mounted vertically on a cart and powered by the same type of air over hydraulic cylinder seen on your Rogue Fab bender. The cart I built from eBay plans and also mounts an Harbor Freight three die roll bender with upgrades from SWAG Offroad. I primarily bought the JD² bender for bending small diameter tubing, sizes you'd typically use building bike or go kart frames. One of the selling points for me was that JD² offers minimum radius dies (minimum bend radius is typically 3 times the tube diameter.) and due to their design both the MB bender and the Rogue Fab don't. On bigger tube that's not an issue, on small diameter stuff it is when you're trying to replicate parts that were bent using the minimum radius for that tube size. (I.E. 2.25" CLR for 3/4" tube) I agree with your comments about the using the JD² horizontally. I made a bend or two with mine and it brought back all I hated about the old Hossfeld bender I learned on. I found a vertical mount solution and haven't looked back since. It's mobile so it's not in the way when I'm not using it, It's way less fiddly when you're bending vertically, and it's easy to watch the bend gauge when the hydraulic cylinder is doing the grunt work. That said, I'll admit I like some of the features you've demonstrated with the Rogue Fab bender. Doing multiple bends on a piece of tubing is always challenging and having to mirror bend the opposite side even more so. Having a straight forward solution to accomplish that accurately would be quite desirable when doing buggy frames or the like. Kudos for demonstrating the design of their bender and how it can be put to good use. One last topic, all tubing benders distort the tubing while bending it. Some are worse than others, but even mandrel benders will do so slightly. Structurally, such distortion doesn't compromise the tubing enough to worry about, but if you cut a piece vertically through the bent section you'll see it's no longer perfectly round. It only becomes a problem when you're bending too small a radius for a given tubing size and it kinks, or trying to bend too thin of a wall thickness without a supporting mandrel and the tubing collapses.
Well said, sir. My buggies are designed for 3D bends (well except the 1.25”). The three options of CLR on the Rogue Fab line up with common tubing size but not ALL tubing sizes. That is definitely advantage JD2. Being able to match left and right multiple bends with rotations is what made me go with the RF. It was so stressful to do with the JD2 and I could never get it perfect, this very well could be me lacking the skill to do it with a horizontal bender. When I did the two rear uprights of my crosskart perfectly and perfectly symmetrical on my first try I was absolutely thrilled with RF and appreciated their approach to bending. I just want to help guys that are just getting into fabrication, there are a lot of great creators out there.
Have you though of selling a weld together kit Since you have everything at hand to do it with people would save thousands just by getting a kit ready to weld together and not have to buy all that bending equipment
Man I would love to. I looked into it when I first put the plans up. I checked with a couple of engineering/manufacturing firms and they were all just after money and profit and it didn’t sit well with me. I’m going to check locally and hopefully get something set up soon. But if you build one you are going to want to build more and personalize, making the fab equipment really worth it. I have no regrets about investing in the equipment; even without the channel and the plans this stuff is really fun and rewarding to build.
@@KJRaycing well I'm building one i got a cheap secondhand bender yours is by far Superior but I do get some halfway decent bends i finally found a cheap 500 IRS I've learned a lot from your videos I enjoy building things to but I would have rather just bought a pipe kit with all the bends already done or the bends and the ends cut to fit either way would have been better because mine doesn't look no where near as good as yours and I steal have a long ways to go
Keep at it! You learn more with every bend and every cut. You may have your own ideas for a build and the inly way to get there is with experience. I hope to see your build somewhere.
I would love to start getting in on the fun! Set some lap times let those guys have a crack at driving a mini rally car. And maybe learn a thing or two from them. Those guys are awesome.
Well the strait answer to all of your questions is in the plans. They tell you everything you need to know; asking questions on details in the comment of a video seems like it would be hard to get a straight answer. 1.5” DOM 1.25” DOM and 1” DOM. I state this in about 20 videos on my channel.
I am glad you took your time sharing this, I got an idea to build a side car for my road bike, and thinking of building my own UTV over investing 20 grand for a UTV .
JD2 model 3 or 32 will accept different hydraulic cylinders and would address both mounting and setup time in addition to being able to do manual bends. JD2 dies bend quality is much higher and more noticeable on thin wall tubes like OD .083 wall chromoly and mild steel. RF may struggle with those thin-wall tubes. To solve that, RF will be happy to sell you their mandrel attachment. The mandrel will allow you to bend thinner wall tubes though. For your average tube bending needs, either will work fine. If RF copies JD2's die profiles, it would make it even better.
Excellent video! Thank you for sharing your experienced opinion! It's clear that you've done your research and I appreciated how you clearly articulated the engineering differences between each manufacturer and the differences in their approaches to bending while remaining positive about both company's products. In the end, it's a clear choice for me. Videos like this help save guys like me days in research and more importantly kill the analysis paralysis! Thank you and keep up the good work!
This was a fun and difficult video to make because I had success with both benders. But the more I use the Rogue Fab the more I’m glad I made the switch. Thank you for the kind words and I hope all of your builds are successful.
I have made do with a hand Chinese bender with home made die’s for a long time. Your buggies look beautiful…..I haven’t done frames, carts or minis……but have built lots of stuff, and it’s fun fun fun! It can be done home style……that’s part of the fun too…..got to admit, his work is excellent…as I retire and have more time I have plans. Great video!
Very good review and thanks for posting, I'd never heard of Rogue Fab, very interesting method and I'm going to investigate a bit more before I decide on a bender. In particular, the ability to make multiple bends, some on a different axis, to be able to do this in a simple way with the Rogue Fab is great. Thanks
This video has been a huge eye opener as to how to really use a tubing bender well. I have a pro tools 105 bender with air powered hydraulic ram. It's just like a jd squared. I am going to mount it vertically and use some of the methods you describe with the rogue fab bender. I think it can work out pretty similar with extra aluminum blocks on the tube at the end of the brace that extends from the die. Once I know what that distance is from center I can use it to calculate bends just like with the rogue fab bender along with the extra blocks. Thanks so much for sharing this experience with us. I have 2 old Honda FL350 odysseys to rebuild with rotax 600 motors, extended frames and Polaris RZR XP1000 suspension for me and my son. After those are done then I'll build 2 more buggies for the grand kids using your plans.
I had no idea about the blocks in the Rogue Fab bender. This is the first I've seen about buying extra blocks and setting them all up before hand. And it make plane of bend rotation to much easier. I kinda regret getting something else instead of the Rogue Fab bender.
Rogue Fab all the way this is a great comparison video they are both great videos. Another thing I like about the Rogue Fab is how clean a 160-180 degree bend is. Awesome cross kart by the way.
Thank you very much. I was hoping I had a good perspective as I have built two different crosskarts with the two different benders. I hope this helps the creative minds of the world get into fabrication with whichever bender they decide to get.
RogueFab has a KJ Raycing package with plenty of options for big budgets or minimalist setups, they will get you set up. I know crosskarts and they know benders 😁
After watching this video, I am convinced I can make my JMR bender as accurate as the Rogue Fab bender, in the way it is used in your builds. I just have to translate the block positions for the JMR, and create squared blocks from 2 piece tube clamp collars. And setting the bender vertical sounds like a great idea! I would rather figure out how to make my existing bender work for this project, than to just give up and buy another bender.
Good Day KJ... hope you well. thanks for all your videos, im just about to get started on my build... was wondering if you have a direct way I can contact you. Would like to ask you a few questions regarding your model 32 bender.
Good day to you! Thank you for joining in on the fun, check the description for the Facebook group, that is the best way to have discussions about the build, components and tools. Why get just my advice when you can have the advice of over 1000 people building these (including me of course). 👍
I love my jd2, but only after a digital angle kit from swag. Both benders create flat spots, but not without using calipers to measure it. 1 10th is totally legal in every sanction class. I feel like it's a few thou that's legal but don't quote me.
I got the swag digital angle kit but couldn’t get it to stay calibrated and after the 4th piece that was messed up from it I had to go a different direction. Probably user error but kind of glad it happened. I feel like I can build anything with it.
Thanks, for the honesty. That other guy at Sketch, not sure what's going on over there. I bought the tradesmen set from Rogue Fab. It's awesome. Keep on it!
Your imagination is going to run wild once you start bending some tubing! Thank you for the comment and the kind words. I hope all your builds are exactly what you want them to be.
I had a question about bending your tubes, so when you cut out your materials for your tubes that require the bends, do you over cut what you need to compensate for the degree of the bend or do you cut them out to the proper length and bend it to whatever degree that tube is required to have. Still kinda green to bending tube, I kinda know how metal bends and can be manipulated but tubing is a little foreign to me lol. Btw awesome content and will be purchasing plans in the near future.
I design to allow enough room for the material to fit in the tubing bender and notcher so the tube can be cut to the correct length. However there are a few where I added extra material to the cut end to make the tube fit and make the bend close to where it is welded. From my experience you need 4-5” of straight tubing before and after the bend for it to work out. Remember that when you notch tubing for a frame you are cutting off the end, that can open up some design features that look cool and can easily be made. Thanks for the comment and the compliment. Enjoy your future endeavors 🖖
Buenas noches sr; me pregunto si sería posible que implementaran un traductor de español, tus vehículos m parecen muy buenos, se ve de lejos que sabes bien lo que haces y eres un tipo muy didactico; seguro que tienes seguidores de habla hispana y tu canal ganaría suscriptores. Gracias de cualquier manera por tomarte el trabajo de mostrar tu material. Saludos desde Canarias 🤙
youtube está trabajando en una traducción de subtítulos para que tu deseo se haga realidad. Espero que todos los que quieran construir y conducir tengan la oportunidad de hacerlo. Pasé una semana en Tenerife, tu vives en un hermoso lugar amigo mío. -Kyle
Of course I have! But in this world of lawsuits and those who want something for nothing it is too much of a risk for a career aviator and a family man. This is the best I can do for those wanting a heavy shot of adrenaline without breaking the bank. It is always flattering for someone interested in buying one of my buggy’s. A sincere thank you.
I know keeping the tube round adds strength, but this stuff is over engineered anyway. I honestly did not understand his hang up with it. All the frames made with both machines look great and you can’t see flat spots. I just didn’t want builders to be discouraged by something that isn’t really important to home made chassis. Thank you for the comment as always 🖖
I see the advantages to the Rougefab over the JD squared in many applications for repeatability. I only have one criticism in that you had a manual setup for the JD Squared bender and the RF had hydraulic set up which imho was not an apples to apples comparison. I wonder if your experience would have been different with the hydraulics on the JDS. I’m still on the fence about which I would prefer because I’m not sure I would be skilled enough to use all the features the RF model offers over the JDS. Thanks for the information tho.
I covered that. I was looking into upgrading the JD2 to hydraulic and making it vertical. The cost to upgrade was very close to what I paid entirely for the roguefab. That is a huge pro of the RF, it already comes as a hydraulic bender 👍. You are welcome for the info and I hope it helps.
Hey man. I love your cart and I think I am going to buy plans. I have a Rogue Fab 600 XHD. I got it about 2 months ago . I built it, painted it, and then winter set in. I'm in Michigan and my shop burned to the ground a while ago. So far, I have not been able to rebuild thanks to my great insurance company, but I digress. I have my bender in a shipping container , at the moment. As soon as spring arrives, I will start working with it. In the mean time, I am buying additional items from them. I have notcher , and just received a mandrel attachment, so I can bend thinner walled tubing, 2 days ago. Rogue Fab, just announced a next generation of their benders that allow smaller CLR bending capacity. I can upgrade my XHD to the new 625 status by buying new bend wheels and adding a plate to the uprights for even more rigidity and drilling one additional hole , on each upright . I continue to add more dies, clamp blocks, a bit at a time. I had a Pro Tools bender, previously. It was very similar to the JD 2 . I, also, prefer the way in which the Rogue Fab operates as well as the expandability it offers. I bought the Bend Tech bending software to be able to plan things out and be able to create the wraps for exact notching orientation and placement. I am no computer wiz so since I have not spent any time practicing with it , I have not nailed down this aspect of this process. I tried talking with Bend Tech's Tech experts but I guess I asked too many questions and exceeded the allotted consultation time , because they just stopped responding to me all together. I AM pretty disappointed with that . Anyway, I will stop rambling on. Thanks for a cool design and the assessment on what I already agreed with you on.
Bend tech has a bit of a steep learning curve but once you figure it out it feels pretty natural to design with. Sorry about your shop and I hope things turn around and you can get back to building. Thank you for the comment.
I got my RF M600 about 2 weeks ago. The quality is absolutely amazing, and Ive gotten to play with it only once since I got it, but I am beyond happy. I got a few upgrades as well, and I am more than looking forward to some real quality time with it. Great review!
Thank you so much! Rogue Fab really changed the game for home fabricators and they are getting even better with the add ons they are coming out with. And on top of that they are awesome guys for sure!
A Rogue Fab bender is the same cost as your current setup. Just because JD2 sells their bender for $700 does not mean it costs $700 to bend tubing. Rogue fab sells theirs as a complete package so it just seems more expensive. Both companies are awesome, but the misconception of cost drives me crazy 🤓. I hope your builds are going great 👍
The rotation axis for the Swag adaptor is off to the side instead of in the middle of the hydraulic cylinder. Over time, the side force created may warp the cylinder and create leaks in the seal. That's why JD2's hydraulic adaptor is centered with the cylinder on the pivot. Unfortunately, JD2's adaptor uses the more expensive hydraulic skinnier cylinders. To use the cheaper and larger hydraulic cylinders, a fabricated extension arm would be needed to hold the entire hydraulic cylinder and make the pivot at the bottom end of the cylinder.
That was the exact idea of this video. I’m a normal dude with the same constraints as other garage fabricators. Getting the RogueFab bender changed everything. I hope it does for you too.
Im sold on the rogue fab... jeep shop near me has one and made a tube chassis for a twin turbo rock bouncer sitting on 2.5 ton axles. I asked if hed bend and notch the chassis but uh, guess he doesnt want the work... lol. What dies and how many blocks would you recommend? Im going to build at least 2 of these karts, just bought the plans! I run a welder and cnc plasma table, i know cad but bending has always been outsourced so ive never gotten into it.
This is a pretty good detail of what I use in the shop. Crosskart Build Plan Overview: KJ Raycing VF-1 ua-cam.com/video/5OPYCRXcTis/v-deo.html Check out the channel and the build series to get all the details of this fun project. (Short answer is I bought 6 blocks for the 1.5). And thank you so much for joining in on the fun! With all the builds going on I’m pretty sure there will be racing leagues starting soon.
When it comes to paying someone to bend and notch something like this you could honestly buy a bender and a notcher for the same price as the labor would cost you for someone else to do it for you…🤷🏼♂️
@@karlonadkins1579 true, but how much metalworking have you done? If you manage to bend and notch everything perfectly on the first time youd still be spending about the same maybe even more if you factor your own labor in to it (how can you not?). Most people are going to make mistakes, some might just cost an extra stick or two, but some might go unnoticed until you build enough confidence to send it and then the thing folds in half. Professional work at the hands of an experienced and established fabricator is always ideal as long as its within budget.
Once I saw a UA-cam video where the guy mounted his JD2 to a hinge on his work bench. He was then able to tilt the bender vertically and use it with digital angle finders like the Rogue Fab bender. I think he also did the hydraulic conversion and had the pump and stuff under the bench.
I did a lot of research on upgrading my jd2 to hydraulic and making it a vertical bender. If JD2 sold an off the shelf 90 degree mount I may have went that way, but at the same time I’m really happy I ended up with the Rogue Fab. Using the blocks for multiple bends makes fabricating frames soooo easy.
The jd2 is great too especially when you convert it too power. rouge bends more ways and tighter, but most don’t even use it’s full capability, what sold me is the mandrel bending upgrade and Ian Johnson (4wheeler tv show host) said it’s only one too get
The jd2 is great and I was torn between upgrading it or switching to a Rogue. I’m really glad I switched. I feel like it really unlocked my potential as a designer and a builder.
JD2 bender is an awesome machine. I have a lot of gratitude for their product as they got me into fabrication. I hope I showed the fact that if you have a JD2 you can absolutely build custom chassis in your home garage. Always good to see a comment from you Geronimo.
Well considering you can’t even build one without it and that most people are building two makes it totally worth it. Plus I’m building a roof rack for my beetle, maybe a cage, a tow bar for the club plane, a roller for my yard and anything else I can think of. I think being closed minded is a waste…
@@KJRaycing ya but if you are only using it to build a kart it's not worth it just for it to sit after I've built karts without one.if you was using alot ya but not for just a kart then it just sits is just a waste of money.
Why are you watching bender video’s if you already decided they are not worth it? I know you don’t fit into this category, but the guys who have bought them are really happy they have one. You are watching videos that encourage people to build and your only offering is to discourage people from building; You can do better, right?
![[UA] NAVI проти G2 Esports | Blast Premier Fall Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QWlIm4FGESQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Need to convince "our favorite" UA-cam builds to build a crosskart and race!
Oh man that would be crazy awesome! Or should I build a yerf dog and go race with them?
@@KJRaycing Honestly I think they need to graduate to something a little bit more powerful and faster. LOL.
This is the best tube bender comparison video hands down man. You have sold me on a rogue bender 100%
Outstanding! Thank you very much! It’s hard to pick the right tools when you are getting started and we rely on the tube for our information. I try to always keep that in mind. Thank you again.
Great video, only 2 things I disagree with is, I don’t see JD being a manual bender a negative but a positive. RF is locked into using a pneumatic cylinder where JD can do both.
Also if you had the JD on hydraulics it’s footprint and set up ability would be the exact same. You could use a cart because it no longer needs to be floor mounted.
I think the ONLY advantage of the RF is like you set allowing the multiple blocks to be mounded for off set or recentered bends.
Also people give both of these 2 companies too much credit. They both stole their general designs from OLD benders and companies. They were not innovative. They just got the blueprint from older companies benders and copied them to make their own version.
So be other downside of RF is their pricing. They advertise being some of the most affordable quality budget benders. But once you go to check out it’s more expensive than the JD2 which IMO is mid to high end DIY benders. And their design is MUCH cheaper to produce just by materials used. JD uses 3/4 to 1” stock where RF uses 10g to 14g materials. MASSIVE difference in cost to mfg.
Maybe try not to hit the skip button so much, I cover all of this in the video. The added cost to make the JD2 pneumatic makes it actually cost more than the RF. I give both companies tons of credit and I couldn't find any "OLD" benders still for sale so that is kind of a moot point. Thank you for you input, I look forward to seeing your comparison video of the two...
Can I share some clips from this video on a video I’m working on while building my rogue fab bender? I want to show some projects other people have done
Yes sir you can. Thank you for asking. Please just give a mention about me and my channel if you would be so kind.
-Kyle
Does anyone know where to buy M601 in Europe without paying double price for the shipping?
Loving this! 😀
Lopez Edward Wilson Kevin Taylor Melissa
Hey Man! Great comparison video. I run a JD2 M32 that has been modded with an air over hydro cylinder. The custom stand has locking wheels and bends on a vertical plane to take advantage of the digital angle finder trick. I hear you on the just pull it out and bend one thing necessity. The clamp block setup on the Rouge looks to be a game changer, especially if you're designing digitally. The accuracy must be great, but more importantly I bet the repeatability is almost dead nuts! Excellent Symmetry on a tube chassis can be so important especially with high-end builds. Keep up the great work my friend 👍4000 subs!!!! 👏
Thank you Ken. I was close to making the same setup for my JD2 when I figured out how I could use the blocks on the RF to make multiple symmetrical bends. It was tough to get a new bender after making a good chassis with the JD2, but honestly I’m really glad I did. The second and third chassis went together quickly and easily using that block setup. And since the JD2 is such a great bender selling it was quick and easy. In the end I think it cost me $100 to switch to the Rogue Fab. Thank you for the comment 🖖
Mr. Kj..i like to build my own buggy car, but at my place very difficult to get the tire. hahaha
I really like the design of th vf1 and i personally love ve in the rockies and am currently trying to discover how i can use the deaign and add 4wd. Crosscarts are awesome but im curious as to how the variable frame can adapt to 4wd simply.
The VF-1 XL was designed with adapting 4wd in mind… 👍
Nice video. Very helpful..👍🏽🇺🇸👍🏽
I think the bend quality on a jd2 model 32 is much better than the rogue , I've been bending a tube chassis 1 3/4 4wd .120 wall 8 seater buggy for my family to go to the sand dunes and making it street legal .
It’s been almost three years since I posted this video but I’m pretty sure I say that same exact thing. Well except the 8 seater part 😁. Cool build and I hope it turns out to be everything you hope it to be 👍
good video, i can’t wait crosskart build with full atv suspension and axel videos
Oh I know! I am so pumped to get some action videos that aren’t in my back yard. I designed and built these to be just as much fun to play in a semi small area (I have 2 acres), as it would in a wide open space or even on a track. Thank you for the comment 🖖
Cut my teeth on an old Hossfeld manual bender. I've since bought a JD² Model 3 bender and a Mittler Brothers 180 degree hydraulic bender. My JD² bender is mounted vertically on a cart and powered by the same type of air over hydraulic cylinder seen on your Rogue Fab bender. The cart I built from eBay plans and also mounts an Harbor Freight three die roll bender with upgrades from SWAG Offroad. I primarily bought the JD² bender for bending small diameter tubing, sizes you'd typically use building bike or go kart frames. One of the selling points for me was that JD² offers minimum radius dies (minimum bend radius is typically 3 times the tube diameter.) and due to their design both the MB bender and the Rogue Fab don't. On bigger tube that's not an issue, on small diameter stuff it is when you're trying to replicate parts that were bent using the minimum radius for that tube size. (I.E. 2.25" CLR for 3/4" tube) I agree with your comments about the using the JD² horizontally. I made a bend or two with mine and it brought back all I hated about the old Hossfeld bender I learned on. I found a vertical mount solution and haven't looked back since. It's mobile so it's not in the way when I'm not using it, It's way less fiddly when you're bending vertically, and it's easy to watch the bend gauge when the hydraulic cylinder is doing the grunt work. That said, I'll admit I like some of the features you've demonstrated with the Rogue Fab bender. Doing multiple bends on a piece of tubing is always challenging and having to mirror bend the opposite side even more so. Having a straight forward solution to accomplish that accurately would be quite desirable when doing buggy frames or the like. Kudos for demonstrating the design of their bender and how it can be put to good use.
One last topic, all tubing benders distort the tubing while bending it. Some are worse than others, but even mandrel benders will do so slightly. Structurally, such distortion doesn't compromise the tubing enough to worry about, but if you cut a piece vertically through the bent section you'll see it's no longer perfectly round. It only becomes a problem when you're bending too small a radius for a given tubing size and it kinks, or trying to bend too thin of a wall thickness without a supporting mandrel and the tubing collapses.
Well said, sir. My buggies are designed for 3D bends (well except the 1.25”). The three options of CLR on the Rogue Fab line up with common tubing size but not ALL tubing sizes. That is definitely advantage JD2. Being able to match left and right multiple bends with rotations is what made me go with the RF. It was so stressful to do with the JD2 and I could never get it perfect, this very well could be me lacking the skill to do it with a horizontal bender. When I did the two rear uprights of my crosskart perfectly and perfectly symmetrical on my first try I was absolutely thrilled with RF and appreciated their approach to bending. I just want to help guys that are just getting into fabrication, there are a lot of great creators out there.
Have you though of selling a weld together kit Since you have everything at hand to do it with people would save thousands just by getting a kit ready to weld together and not have to buy all that bending equipment
Man I would love to. I looked into it when I first put the plans up. I checked with a couple of engineering/manufacturing firms and they were all just after money and profit and it didn’t sit well with me. I’m going to check locally and hopefully get something set up soon. But if you build one you are going to want to build more and personalize, making the fab equipment really worth it. I have no regrets about investing in the equipment; even without the channel and the plans this stuff is really fun and rewarding to build.
@@KJRaycing well I'm building one i got a cheap secondhand bender yours is by far Superior but I do get some halfway decent bends i finally found a cheap 500 IRS I've learned a lot from your videos I enjoy building things to but I would have rather just bought a pipe kit with all the bends already done or the bends and the ends cut to fit either way would have been better because mine doesn't look no where near as good as yours and I steal have a long ways to go
Keep at it! You learn more with every bend and every cut. You may have your own ideas for a build and the inly way to get there is with experience. I hope to see your build somewhere.
Good job, seems like an honest review. Sweet buggies too.
Thank you and thank you!
another criteria is die options...
I like that we saw GHPC and C&C in there. I'd love to see you in a collaboration with them.
Iain - We are trying very hard to make that happen
I would love to start getting in on the fun! Set some lap times let those guys have a crack at driving a mini rally car. And maybe learn a thing or two from them. Those guys are awesome.
What tubing do you use?
I'm having a hard time finding a straight answer as well as a metal supplier
Well the strait answer to all of your questions is in the plans. They tell you everything you need to know; asking questions on details in the comment of a video seems like it would be hard to get a straight answer.
1.5” DOM 1.25” DOM and 1” DOM. I state this in about 20 videos on my channel.
I am glad you took your time sharing this, I got an idea to build a side car for my road bike, and thinking of building my own UTV over investing 20 grand for a UTV .
I ordered my Rogue bender today.
@@steveportice3560so what do you think of your Rogue bender? Was it worth it and have you bent up anything?
@johnlee6843 hate to admit it, but like a lot of things I bought, still in the box, because I can't seem to get the time to use it.
Great Video! Keep um coming
Thanks man! My garage is full of buggies, makes it hard to clear some space to get work done! …and when are we racing 😃?
JD2 model 3 or 32 will accept different hydraulic cylinders and would address both mounting and setup time in addition to being able to do manual bends. JD2 dies bend quality is much higher and more noticeable on thin wall tubes like OD .083 wall chromoly and mild steel. RF may struggle with those thin-wall tubes. To solve that, RF will be happy to sell you their mandrel attachment. The mandrel will allow you to bend thinner wall tubes though. For your average tube bending needs, either will work fine. If RF copies JD2's die profiles, it would make it even better.
Excellent video! Thank you for sharing your experienced opinion! It's clear that you've done your research and I appreciated how you clearly articulated the engineering differences between each manufacturer and the differences in their approaches to bending while remaining positive about both company's products. In the end, it's a clear choice for me. Videos like this help save guys like me days in research and more importantly kill the analysis paralysis! Thank you and keep up the good work!
This was a fun and difficult video to make because I had success with both benders. But the more I use the Rogue Fab the more I’m glad I made the switch. Thank you for the kind words and I hope all of your builds are successful.
one for my please
Hey Man! Great video.
I have made do with a hand Chinese bender with home made die’s for a long time. Your buggies look beautiful…..I haven’t done frames, carts or minis……but have built lots of stuff, and it’s fun fun fun! It can be done home style……that’s part of the fun too…..got to admit, his work is excellent…as I retire and have more time I have plans. Great video!
Very good review and thanks for posting, I'd never heard of Rogue Fab, very interesting method and I'm going to investigate a bit more before I decide on a bender. In particular, the ability to make multiple bends, some on a different axis, to be able to do this in a simple way with the Rogue Fab is great. Thanks
777🎉
This video has been a huge eye opener as to how to really use a tubing bender well. I have a pro tools 105 bender with air powered hydraulic ram. It's just like a jd squared. I am going to mount it vertically and use some of the methods you describe with the rogue fab bender. I think it can work out pretty similar with extra aluminum blocks on the tube at the end of the brace that extends from the die. Once I know what that distance is from center I can use it to calculate bends just like with the rogue fab bender along with the extra blocks. Thanks so much for sharing this experience with us. I have 2 old Honda FL350 odysseys to rebuild with rotax 600 motors, extended frames and Polaris RZR XP1000 suspension for me and my son. After those are done then I'll build 2 more buggies for the grand kids using your plans.
I had no idea about the blocks in the Rogue Fab bender. This is the first I've seen about buying extra blocks and setting them all up before hand. And it make plane of bend rotation to much easier. I kinda regret getting something else instead of the Rogue Fab bender.
nice
Rogue Fab all the way this is a great comparison video they are both great videos. Another thing I like about the Rogue Fab is how clean a 160-180 degree bend is. Awesome cross kart by the way.
Thank you very much. I was hoping I had a good perspective as I have built two different crosskarts with the two different benders. I hope this helps the creative minds of the world get into fabrication with whichever bender they decide to get.
Which model of the Rogue bender did you get?
RogueFab has a KJ Raycing package with plenty of options for big budgets or minimalist setups, they will get you set up. I know crosskarts and they know benders 😁
how about the affordable bender bender? also do you plan on selling pre bent weld it your self chasiss kits
Whats the cost of the bender, the roag fab bender.
Roguefab.com . They have a KJ Raycing package. They are so awesome 😎
After watching this video, I am convinced I can make my JMR bender as accurate as the Rogue Fab bender, in the way it is used in your builds. I just have to translate the block positions for the JMR, and create squared blocks from 2 piece tube clamp collars. And setting the bender vertical sounds like a great idea! I would rather figure out how to make my existing bender work for this project, than to just give up and buy another bender.
Lot’s of guys are using different benders with success. It’s all about the setup. And making it vertical will help nail the angles for sure.
Good Day KJ... hope you well. thanks for all your videos, im just about to get started on my build... was wondering if you have a direct way I can contact you. Would like to ask you a few questions regarding your model 32 bender.
Good day to you! Thank you for joining in on the fun, check the description for the Facebook group, that is the best way to have discussions about the build, components and tools. Why get just my advice when you can have the advice of over 1000 people building these (including me of course). 👍
I mounted my JD2 bender vertical on a cart with a air/hydraulic cylinder. Works good. Would like to go rouge but rebuying the dies would be $2500
Vertical is definitely the way to go. Rogue fab has a crosskart builders package for $1700.
I love my jd2, but only after a digital angle kit from swag. Both benders create flat spots, but not without using calipers to measure it. 1 10th is totally legal in every sanction class. I feel like it's a few thou that's legal but don't quote me.
I got the swag digital angle kit but couldn’t get it to stay calibrated and after the 4th piece that was messed up from it I had to go a different direction. Probably user error but kind of glad it happened. I feel like I can build anything with it.
Thanks, for the honesty. That other guy at Sketch, not sure what's going on over there.
I bought the tradesmen set from Rogue Fab. It's awesome.
Keep on it!
Your imagination is going to run wild once you start bending some tubing! Thank you for the comment and the kind words. I hope all your builds are exactly what you want them to be.
Could have built a cart for the JD2. I like both. JD2 seems more affordable.
JD2 “seems” more affordable because it is not priced as a complete package. The two are extremely similar in price at final checkout.
I had a question about bending your tubes, so when you cut out your materials for your tubes that require the bends, do you over cut what you need to compensate for the degree of the bend or do you cut them out to the proper length and bend it to whatever degree that tube is required to have. Still kinda green to bending tube, I kinda know how metal bends and can be manipulated but tubing is a little foreign to me lol. Btw awesome content and will be purchasing plans in the near future.
I design to allow enough room for the material to fit in the tubing bender and notcher so the tube can be cut to the correct length. However there are a few where I added extra material to the cut end to make the tube fit and make the bend close to where it is welded. From my experience you need 4-5” of straight tubing before and after the bend for it to work out. Remember that when you notch tubing for a frame you are cutting off the end, that can open up some design features that look cool and can easily be made. Thanks for the comment and the compliment. Enjoy your future endeavors 🖖
The hydraulic one.
Buenas noches sr; me pregunto si sería posible que implementaran un traductor de español, tus vehículos m parecen muy buenos, se ve de lejos que sabes bien lo que haces y eres un tipo muy didactico; seguro que tienes seguidores de habla hispana y tu canal ganaría suscriptores. Gracias de cualquier manera por tomarte el trabajo de mostrar tu material. Saludos desde Canarias 🤙
youtube está trabajando en una traducción de subtítulos para que tu deseo se haga realidad. Espero que todos los que quieran construir y conducir tengan la oportunidad de hacerlo. Pasé una semana en Tenerife, tu vives en un hermoso lugar amigo mío. -Kyle
I built a roll around base for my jd2 model 3 and an air over hydraulic cylinder and bracket.
Cool
The rogue fab bender looks to have better precision and repeatability Looks like the better value for the money
It is what I went with in the end and I still love it every time I use it.
Have you ever thought of selling one of your non rolling chassis just the chassis alone Thanks
Of course I have! But in this world of lawsuits and those who want something for nothing it is too much of a risk for a career aviator and a family man. This is the best I can do for those wanting a heavy shot of adrenaline without breaking the bank. It is always flattering for someone interested in buying one of my buggy’s. A sincere thank you.
Awesome stuff!!...
You would have to sand fill or something like that to keep the bends as "round" as possible. A lot like bending copper tubing.
I know keeping the tube round adds strength, but this stuff is over engineered anyway. I honestly did not understand his hang up with it. All the frames made with both machines look great and you can’t see flat spots. I just didn’t want builders to be discouraged by something that isn’t really important to home made chassis. Thank you for the comment as always 🖖
why didnt you just directly compare the bends at all?
It says in the video…
I see the advantages to the Rougefab over the JD squared in many applications for repeatability. I only have one criticism in that you had a manual setup for the JD Squared bender and the RF had hydraulic set up which imho was not an apples to apples comparison. I wonder if your experience would have been different with the hydraulics on the JDS.
I’m still on the fence about which I would prefer because I’m not sure I would be skilled enough to use all the features the RF model offers over the JDS.
Thanks for the information tho.
I covered that. I was looking into upgrading the JD2 to hydraulic and making it vertical. The cost to upgrade was very close to what I paid entirely for the roguefab. That is a huge pro of the RF, it already comes as a hydraulic bender 👍.
You are welcome for the info and I hope it helps.
Been bending w/my600 for 6-7 years and still pump her manually.
Hey man. I love your cart and I think I am going to buy plans. I have a Rogue Fab 600 XHD. I got it about 2 months ago . I built it, painted it, and then winter set in. I'm in Michigan and my shop burned to the ground a while ago. So far, I have not been able to rebuild thanks to my great insurance company, but I digress. I have my bender in a shipping container , at the moment. As soon as spring arrives, I will start working with it. In the mean time, I am buying additional items from them. I have notcher , and just received a mandrel attachment, so I can bend thinner walled tubing, 2 days ago. Rogue Fab, just announced a next generation of their benders that allow smaller CLR bending capacity. I can upgrade my XHD to the new 625 status by buying new bend wheels and adding a plate to the uprights for even more rigidity and drilling one additional hole , on each upright . I continue to add more dies, clamp blocks, a bit at a time. I had a Pro Tools bender, previously. It was very similar to the JD 2 . I, also, prefer the way in which the Rogue Fab operates as well as the expandability it offers. I bought the Bend Tech bending software to be able to plan things out and be able to create the wraps for exact notching orientation and placement. I am no computer wiz so since I have not spent any time practicing with it , I have not nailed down this aspect of this process. I tried talking with Bend Tech's Tech experts but I guess I asked too many questions and exceeded the allotted consultation time , because they just stopped responding to me all together. I AM pretty disappointed with that . Anyway, I will stop rambling on. Thanks for a cool design and the assessment on what I already agreed with you on.
Bend tech has a bit of a steep learning curve but once you figure it out it feels pretty natural to design with. Sorry about your shop and I hope things turn around and you can get back to building. Thank you for the comment.
@@KJRaycing Thank you.
Thanks for the review, you did a fantastic job going over everything without sounding like a toolshed, and your karts are SICK
Thank you so much, on both accounts. 🖖
I got my RF M600 about 2 weeks ago. The quality is absolutely amazing, and Ive gotten to play with it only once since I got it, but I am beyond happy. I got a few upgrades as well, and I am more than looking forward to some real quality time with it. Great review!
Thank you so much! Rogue Fab really changed the game for home fabricators and they are getting even better with the add ons they are coming out with. And on top of that they are awesome guys for sure!
I like my jd2 bender with the swag off-road cylinder upgrade, but I haven’t tried a rogue fab bender yet, they’re super expensive
A Rogue Fab bender is the same cost as your current setup. Just because JD2 sells their bender for $700 does not mean it costs $700 to bend tubing. Rogue fab sells theirs as a complete package so it just seems more expensive. Both companies are awesome, but the misconception of cost drives me crazy 🤓. I hope your builds are going great 👍
The rotation axis for the Swag adaptor is off to the side instead of in the middle of the hydraulic cylinder. Over time, the side force created may warp the cylinder and create leaks in the seal. That's why JD2's hydraulic adaptor is centered with the cylinder on the pivot. Unfortunately, JD2's adaptor uses the more expensive hydraulic skinnier cylinders. To use the cheaper and larger hydraulic cylinders, a fabricated extension arm would be needed to hold the entire hydraulic cylinder and make the pivot at the bottom end of the cylinder.
@@KJRaycingI had never heard of rogue fab back when I bought my jd2, so it wouldn’t make sense to go back and buy a rogue fab
Also, I mounted mine to a stand with casters, so I can roll it out of the way or outside if I need to bend long tube
hello, i would like to know how many meters more or less did you use of tubes to make the kart frame?
ua-cam.com/video/5OPYCRXcTis/v-deo.html here is the info on the plans and materials. Thanks for checking it out 👍.
this video convinced me to stop looking around and spend the money on the rogue fab
thanks KJ, love your videos. please never stop being technical.
That was the exact idea of this video. I’m a normal dude with the same constraints as other garage fabricators. Getting the RogueFab bender changed everything. I hope it does for you too.
@@KJRaycing thank you, your prints will be added to the cart with it.
Im sold on the rogue fab... jeep shop near me has one and made a tube chassis for a twin turbo rock bouncer sitting on 2.5 ton axles. I asked if hed bend and notch the chassis but uh, guess he doesnt want the work... lol.
What dies and how many blocks would you recommend? Im going to build at least 2 of these karts, just bought the plans!
I run a welder and cnc plasma table, i know cad but bending has always been outsourced so ive never gotten into it.
This is a pretty good detail of what I use in the shop. Crosskart Build Plan Overview: KJ Raycing VF-1
ua-cam.com/video/5OPYCRXcTis/v-deo.html
Check out the channel and the build series to get all the details of this fun project. (Short answer is I bought 6 blocks for the 1.5). And thank you so much for joining in on the fun! With all the builds going on I’m pretty sure there will be racing leagues starting soon.
When it comes to paying someone to bend and notch something like this you could honestly buy a bender and a notcher for the same price as the labor would cost you for someone else to do it for you…🤷🏼♂️
@@karlonadkins1579 true, but how much metalworking have you done? If you manage to bend and notch everything perfectly on the first time youd still be spending about the same maybe even more if you factor your own labor in to it (how can you not?).
Most people are going to make mistakes, some might just cost an extra stick or two, but some might go unnoticed until you build enough confidence to send it and then the thing folds in half. Professional work at the hands of an experienced and established fabricator is always ideal as long as its within budget.
Once I saw a UA-cam video where the guy mounted his JD2 to a hinge on his work bench. He was then able to tilt the bender vertically and use it with digital angle finders like the Rogue Fab bender. I think he also did the hydraulic conversion and had the pump and stuff under the bench.
I did a lot of research on upgrading my jd2 to hydraulic and making it a vertical bender. If JD2 sold an off the shelf 90 degree mount I may have went that way, but at the same time I’m really happy I ended up with the Rogue Fab. Using the blocks for multiple bends makes fabricating frames soooo easy.
@@KJRaycing yeah, the blocks are nice
The jd2 is great too especially when you convert it too power. rouge bends more ways and tighter, but most don’t even use it’s full capability, what sold me is the mandrel bending upgrade and Ian Johnson (4wheeler tv show host) said it’s only one too get
The jd2 is great and I was torn between upgrading it or switching to a Rogue. I’m really glad I switched. I feel like it really unlocked my potential as a designer and a builder.
Ian was and still is one of my all time favorite fabricators, he attacks all of his builds with good math and good planning.
Nice design.
I'm rooting(?) for the Jd2, since that one is pretty much the same as the one I got.
JD2 bender is an awesome machine. I have a lot of gratitude for their product as they got me into fabrication. I hope I showed the fact that if you have a JD2 you can absolutely build custom chassis in your home garage. Always good to see a comment from you Geronimo.
@@KJRaycing Yup, alot of fabricators use the JD2 because it does the job, and Thank you. Hope you enjoyed your 4th of July.
hi, where can i find the dimensions of the car?😊
Hey crazy, there are videos on my channel covering this.
@@KJRaycing ok thank you 💗
Roguefab isn't worth it if your only building 1 or 2 be a waste of money.
Well considering you can’t even build one without it and that most people are building two makes it totally worth it. Plus I’m building a roof rack for my beetle, maybe a cage, a tow bar for the club plane, a roller for my yard and anything else I can think of. I think being closed minded is a waste…
@@KJRaycing ya but if you are only using it to build a kart it's not worth it just for it to sit after I've built karts without one.if you was using alot ya but not for just a kart then it just sits is just a waste of money.
Why are you watching bender video’s if you already decided they are not worth it? I know you don’t fit into this category, but the guys who have bought them are really happy they have one. You are watching videos that encourage people to build and your only offering is to discourage people from building; You can do better, right?
@@KJRaycing because I can.
You must be lots of fun at parties, Jerry
Jd all the way