This was an excellent video, well done. Other than lighting, no notes. No wasted time but in depth, believable and informative. You're a great presenter too. 👍 🍻
This is the best, well thought, and researched video. I'm 50 yrs old new motorcycle rider and love ADV motorcycle. I have watching and researching for my 2011 G650GS (Africa Twin is my next bike in the future) but what I love about your video is preparing for the future unknown and WHY you chose the item where most other videos they just present the items as is. PLUS, I'm a OCD guy, and this is a home run for me. You present it as an engineer mentality and bet you are, lol. Keep the great work coming you have gained a subscriber.
Thanks for watching and the kind words! Glad the video was helpful. I enjoyed building the bike and learned a lot in the process so it was fun sharing what I learned. You guessed right… I am an engineer by training - but a bioegineer so not super helpful for working on bikes! Mostly trial and error and a lot of googling. Happy riding!
This video is more than an overview of farkles; it’s an excellent springboard for discussion about the strengths, weaknesses and “evolution” of the Africa Twin. Performance wise, the thing I’ve found that’s surprisingly useful on this bike (but not all bikes) is a quickly tunable steering damper. It’s costly, but I ride in a very windy, sandy, gravely, damp environment and anything that keeps the front end pointing in the right direction helps. That aside, these bikes are farkle magnets, and thoughtful discussions like this are important - thanks!
Thanks for watching and the feedback! I hadn’t had any experience with steering dampers until very recently something orange and Austrian entered my life. 😁 i never thought it would happen but there is a KTM690 currently sharing the garage with the AT. Not sure if I am going to make a permanent change or not. Still trying to get a feel for the KTM. But the previous owner farkled the hell out of it including adding a Scotts a steering damper. I haven’t fiddled with it yet but I did have a terrifying bout of head-shake when I hit some uneven pavement at 75mph. Gonna see if I can tune the damper to try and address that.
@@DiscoveryMotoADV Just used mine this evening on sloppy gravel. I can dial mine in, takes less than a second to feel the difference. Good luck with the KTM - after 55 years of riding I’m convinced there’s no such thing as a bad bike these days, they’re all good. Skills, on the other hand, should constantly evolve. Take care!
great work on the video. appreciate the low key approach. I had pretty much written off the idea of buying one of these older Africa Twins but you make a great case for them. Thank you.
Thanks for watching and for the feedback! I do love the bike in its current configuration and the beauty of the early models is their relative simplicity compared to most modern ADV bikes. With the right mods it’s really a great bike if you can live with the weight.
Appreciate your honesty in stating certain mods possibly not worth the money. Similar to your bike I prefer to only install the best equipment I can afford. Not insanely rich so I prefer not to waste my money. Might want to look into altrider center stand skid plate....offers a lot of protection and allows bike to slide. My favorite mods just for looks was Remus exhaust and Altrider high fender kit. Getting ready to pull trigger on suspension myself
Thanks for watching and commenting. Glad the video was helpful. That remus exhaust definitely looks pretty sweet and probably sounds pretty sweet too. Plus a chance to shave some weight. I’ve definitely thought about the high fender kit as well. One day when I end up packing the stock fender with mud, Ill probably pull the trigger.
I think that the sensor for the speedometer should be on the front wheel (as with most bikes - I don't own an AT) which means that gearing changes won't affect it.
Common misconception for the AT ( I though so too). There is indeed a speed sensor on the front wheel but this is only for ABS and traction control. The speedometer sensor is at the drive shaft.
Thanks for the update! It actually looks like RR has stopped making parts for the AT all together. Woody’s has a great reputation so glad to hear they are still doing it. The only issue that I recall is that they may not be able to do a safety bead on the front wheel.
Great video. I have one of these and will be taking your suspension advice. Regarding speedometer changes from sprocket changes, Not sure that’s correct. I think the speedo works off a sensor on the front wheel so unlikely to be affected. What would change is speed per rpm level in each gear. You’re definitely a slower bike in every gear at a certain rpm after adding teeth but speedo should be correct
Glad you enjoyed the video! Thanks for watching. I promise that the speedometer is indeed off. You are right that there is a speed sensor over the ABS ring on the front wheel. However, this does not actually run your speedometer but rather determines wheel slip for the purposes of activating the ABS. The speedometer reading comes from another sensor located at the gearbox. Thus, changing the gearing ratio, changes the speedometer’s perceived speed.
I wanted a Wing for over 25 years and 2018 just happened to be my jump in point, and no regrets. I tried to turn a HD Lowerider into a touring bike, and it just wasn't possible. The Wing with DCT along with forward and reverse walking mode is the ticket for me! The weather protection, heated grips, etc, it's very hard to get any better than this!
Great video, and great bike. Just one small question. Taking in account that the speedometer sensor is on the front wheel, doesn't it really matter the gear ratio, correct? It reads the turns on the front wheel.
Thanks for watching. Glad you enjoyed the video. I was confused about this as well. What I learned is that the speed sensor on the front wheel is inly used to detect wheel slip for the ABS. The actual speedometer sensor is at the top of the case and monitors drive gear rotation which is indeed effected by gear ratio.
5:30 What r u talking about if bar goes out of alignment i fix it by hands, just move bar to one end and push with hands on grips. But i agree its annoying that something like this happens, engineering oversight imo, and raisers will only make this worse
Yes. It is possible to bash them back into position (or over correct to the other side) with a good strong push. Which is exactly the problem. I prefer my bars to be immobile and straight. I agree that something like a rox riser would make this worse by increasing the leverage in a fall. If you look at the riser I describe, it bridges the two mounts so they can not pivot thus preventing bar rotation. As to whether it works or makes things worse, all I can tell you is that the bars have not moved after dozens of hard drops since this was installed. There is a risk that the force has to go somewhere and so instead of the bars pivoting it could throw the forks out of alignment instead. I have not experienced this.
I am purchasing a 2017 A.T. . I also would like to get some tubeless wheels for the bike. I have looked at VMX but can not get anyone to respond to an email, nor could I get through on the phone, though they say they are in California. I know the product is made in China. I just found your video yesterday and noticed the Rally Rand wheels. I have sent them an email but can not find the wheels on their site anywhere. Can you provide anymore information on these wheels? Appreciate the video. The bike I am purchasing has the same safety equipment they you have listed and will be picking up some other items you have. A little concerned about the front forks as I am not going to spend that type of money for them.
Whoa. Just checked the Rally Raid site and it looks like they aren’t supporting Africa Twin at all anymore. Please comment if you hear back to let folks know if these are no longer being produced. I believe Woody’s Wheels will do a tubeless rear. I am not sure if they will also build a front with a safety lip. But worth giving them a call. A lot of people have success with a DIY Outex approach but I am hesitant to run tubeless without a safety bead. Many people have done it seemingly without issue but it is not recommended. As for the forks… its hard to say how common the sticktion problem really was. Enough that it comes up on the forums and suspension shops offer recoating services but still pretty rare i bet. Just pay attention to the forks when you are inspecting the bike. Look for wear on the stansion. Thanks for watching.
@@DiscoveryMotoADV yup, they are not manufacturing them anymore. This was their response. Marc, thank you for your email. I am sorry we no longer manufacture the wheels for the Africa Twin, I am sorry but we are unable to supply them. I like the style of the VMX with the outer spoke, but just not sure of their reputation. Woody's pricey but I guess you get what you pay for.
Wow, you have a ton of money into this bike! The front forks are 4K in Canada and the rear’s about $1600. You’ve done a nice job with your choices. I changed the gearing on mine too, I also installed a healtech speedo healer. Works well and found a short cut to make the install relatively easy. Thanks for the video!
Thanks for watching! I think this is really a matter of personal preference - no right answer. I personally prefer the manual for two reasons: (1) the DCT is a little more mechanically complex and I prefer to err on the side of maximal simplicity since this makes the bike more reliable and easier to service in case of breakdown and (2) I believe that having a clutch gives me more precise control in technical terrain and it has definitely saved me from what would have been a few pretty bad crashes in some "whiskey throttle" situations. I recommend a couple of good videos from Bret Tkacs below on this topic to help you make a decision. ua-cam.com/video/pgeYoG_mvts/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/wZXC7P7F6Fo/v-deo.html
@@chris.kiser86 Thanks for sharing! What year is your bike? I didn’t even know this was possible on the 2017 but based on some googling it looks like it is by plugging directly into the coils instead of the computer.
Afrca twin 2017 - 45mm inverted telescopic fork; 9.06 in. travel Africa twin 2016 - Inverted Showa® 45mm fork w/ 8.0 in. travel; adjustable compression, rebound damping & hydraulic adjustable preload good morning, does this data above mean that the AT2016 has a lower suspension than the AT 2017? what are the differences between them. AT 2016 and AT 2017? biker greeting Miroslav
I have only owned the 2017 so can’t speak about the 2016 from experience. What is the source of the above data? Honda does model updates every two years and, In the US at least, there were no changes between 2016 and 2017. 9.06in travel at the forks is correct for both years from what I can tell.
The tubeless wheels are from Rally Raid. They are currently out of stock but if I understand correctly they do intend to resume production at some point. You will have to check with them. These wheels have the safety bead on both wheels and are sealed for Rally Raid with a galvanized rubber process from a company called bartubeless. A much cheaper but seemingly effective alternative people take is to seal the wheels themselves with available kits or various DIY approaches. I was not happy with this approach because you would still be missing the safety bead and risking having the tire slip off under certain conditions. But there are people on the forums that have ridden thousands of miles without incident with that kind of setup.
Great vid. The section regarding tube vs tubeless is a bit inaccurate as your example are both "tube" wheels and the opposite is the reality. A tubeless wheel will loose air faster. But we get the point. Well explained and laid out! THANK YOU!
Thanks for watching and commenting! Ah. You are right that I mis-spoke and said ‘tubed’ both times. doh! Though I disagree that tubeless wheel will lose air faster. I have caught a nail in my tubeless tires before and didn’t even notice air loss until the end of the day. I have never blow a tube at freeway speed but I think it is well accepted that a tube, if punctured with something as large as a nail, can burst like a balloon resulting in instant loss of pressure.
I've only heared that tubeless loses air slow and tubed is a fast loss of air! Could you explain for me as it's the tubes that put me off buying the base model, which imo is a better bike over the adventure sport!
Great video explaining upgrades and setup. Now that you have heavily upgraded the bike, would you consider trading your bike in for a newer 2020 - 2022 AT? The negative would be cost, since you most likely have this bike paid off. I went to a Honda dealer and with tax the 2022 DCT Adventure was $17,900 and that did not include tax and other fees.
Great question. I actually had a comment in the video about this but cut it out to keep things concise. I personally would NOT make the trade. The 2017 is the last year Honda kept things simple on this bike (cable throttle, minimal electronics). I like the idea of keeping things as simple as possible to increase reliability and field repairability on a bike that I take into remote places and often alone. In terms of cost, this bike cost about 17,000 all in. 8,500 for the used AT with 10k miles on it and about the same in total upgrades (some of which, like crash protection, you will still need on the new AT). And of course the Ohlins suspension and RR wheels are still going to be better than the new AT. So, I would strongly recommend going with a pre 2018 used AT and then upgrading to your preferences (unless computerized riding modes are very important for you). With respect to DCT, thats a personal preference thing. I prefer manual as I feel it gives me better control in slow technical terrain. Also, have you considered the T7? If I was buying today, thats the bike I would buy.
@@DiscoveryMotoADV Thank you for the feedback. Simple makes sense. I am currently looking to buy a AT and will take your viewpoint into consideration . I will take a look at the T7 also. Thanks!
This was an excellent video, well done. Other than lighting, no notes. No wasted time but in depth, believable and informative. You're a great presenter too. 👍 🍻
Thanks for watching and the kind feedback! Glad you enjoyed it.
Excellent video. Useful information for us OG AT owners. I have a 2016 silver manual. Love this bike.
Glad you enjoyed the video! Thanks for the feedback. For sure, these early AT models are the last of a vanishing breed - simple, reliable and fun.
This is the best, well thought, and researched video. I'm 50 yrs old new motorcycle rider and love ADV motorcycle. I have watching and researching for my 2011 G650GS (Africa Twin is my next bike in the future) but what I love about your video is preparing for the future unknown and WHY you chose the item where most other videos they just present the items as is. PLUS, I'm a OCD guy, and this is a home run for me. You present it as an engineer mentality and bet you are, lol. Keep the great work coming you have gained a subscriber.
Thanks for watching and the kind words! Glad the video was helpful. I enjoyed building the bike and learned a lot in the process so it was fun sharing what I learned. You guessed right… I am an engineer by training - but a bioegineer so not super helpful for working on bikes! Mostly trial and error and a lot of googling. Happy riding!
This video is more than an overview of farkles; it’s an excellent springboard for discussion about the strengths, weaknesses and “evolution” of the Africa Twin. Performance wise, the thing I’ve found that’s surprisingly useful on this bike (but not all bikes) is a quickly tunable steering damper. It’s costly, but I ride in a very windy, sandy, gravely, damp environment and anything that keeps the front end pointing in the right direction helps. That aside, these bikes are farkle magnets, and thoughtful discussions like this are important - thanks!
Thanks for watching and the feedback! I hadn’t had any experience with steering dampers until very recently something orange and Austrian entered my life. 😁 i never thought it would happen but there is a KTM690 currently sharing the garage with the AT. Not sure if I am going to make a permanent change or not. Still trying to get a feel for the KTM. But the previous owner farkled the hell out of it including adding a Scotts a steering damper. I haven’t fiddled with it yet but I did have a terrifying bout of head-shake when I hit some uneven pavement at 75mph. Gonna see if I can tune the damper to try and address that.
@@DiscoveryMotoADV Just used mine this evening on sloppy gravel. I can dial mine in, takes less than a second to feel the difference. Good luck with the KTM - after 55 years of riding I’m convinced there’s no such thing as a bad bike these days, they’re all good. Skills, on the other hand, should constantly evolve. Take care!
Other than low lighting issues, I enjoyed watching this video!✌️
My man out here doing Wing Chun on his bike and it's taking it well.
Honest and OUTSTANDING👍‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️
Thanks for watching and the kind words. Glad you enjoyed it!
Best build iv seen so far, all the bells and whistles 👍
cool, well done
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for sharing and putting the time and effort on this video, this video should be on the top list with searching African Twin, keep it up
Thanks for watching and the kind words. Glad you enjoyed it!
great work on the video. appreciate the low key approach. I had pretty much written off the idea of buying one of these older Africa Twins but you make a great case for them. Thank you.
Thanks for watching and for the feedback! I do love the bike in its current configuration and the beauty of the early models is their relative simplicity compared to most modern ADV bikes. With the right mods it’s really a great bike if you can live with the weight.
Appreciate your honesty in stating certain mods possibly not worth the money. Similar to your bike I prefer to only install the best equipment I can afford. Not insanely rich so I prefer not to waste my money.
Might want to look into altrider center stand skid plate....offers a lot of protection and allows bike to slide.
My favorite mods just for looks was Remus exhaust and Altrider high fender kit.
Getting ready to pull trigger on suspension myself
Thanks for watching and commenting. Glad the video was helpful. That remus exhaust definitely looks pretty sweet and probably sounds pretty sweet too. Plus a chance to shave some weight. I’ve definitely thought about the high fender kit as well. One day when I end up packing the stock fender with mud, Ill probably pull the trigger.
Cool. Thank you!👍
AWESOME video! THANKS for sharing !
Brilliant presentation! You are talented! Enjoy your bike!
Thanks for watching and for the feedback! Glad you enjoyed it.
clear explanations, good job
great video well presented and very informative thank you
Thanks for watching!
Nice video thx
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching!
Great job, brother! Keep up the good work.
Great video my friend... Simple and minimal 👍👍👍
Thanks for watching and the feedback. Glad you enjoyed it!
Useful. Thanks.
Excellent
Thanks!
Nice video
I think that the sensor for the speedometer should be on the front wheel (as with most bikes - I don't own an AT) which means that gearing changes won't affect it.
Common misconception for the AT ( I though so too). There is indeed a speed sensor on the front wheel but this is only for ABS and traction control. The speedometer sensor is at the drive shaft.
Thanks! Looks like Rally Raid isn't making those wheels anymore. Woody's Wheelworks makes some though.
Thanks for the update! It actually looks like RR has stopped making parts for the AT all together. Woody’s has a great reputation so glad to hear they are still doing it. The only issue that I recall is that they may not be able to do a safety bead on the front wheel.
Great video. I have one of these and will be taking your suspension advice. Regarding speedometer changes from sprocket changes, Not sure that’s correct. I think the speedo works off a sensor on the front wheel so unlikely to be affected. What would change is speed per rpm level in each gear. You’re definitely a slower bike in every gear at a certain rpm after adding teeth but speedo should be correct
Glad you enjoyed the video! Thanks for watching. I promise that the speedometer is indeed off. You are right that there is a speed sensor over the ABS ring on the front wheel. However, this does not actually run your speedometer but rather determines wheel slip for the purposes of activating the ABS. The speedometer reading comes from another sensor located at the gearbox. Thus, changing the gearing ratio, changes the speedometer’s perceived speed.
I wanted a Wing for over 25 years and 2018 just happened to be my jump in point, and no regrets. I tried to turn a HD Lowerider into a touring bike, and it just wasn't possible. The Wing with DCT along with forward and reverse walking mode is the ticket for me! The weather protection, heated grips, etc, it's very hard to get any better than this!
Great video, and great bike. Just one small question. Taking in account that the speedometer sensor is on the front wheel, doesn't it really matter the gear ratio, correct? It reads the turns on the front wheel.
Thanks for watching. Glad you enjoyed the video. I was confused about this as well. What I learned is that the speed sensor on the front wheel is inly used to detect wheel slip for the ABS. The actual speedometer sensor is at the top of the case and monitors drive gear rotation which is indeed effected by gear ratio.
barkbuster need
5:30
What r u talking about if bar goes out of alignment i fix it by hands, just move bar to one end and push with hands on grips.
But i agree its annoying that something like this happens, engineering oversight imo, and raisers will only make this worse
Yes. It is possible to bash them back into position (or over correct to the other side) with a good strong push. Which is exactly the problem. I prefer my bars to be immobile and straight. I agree that something like a rox riser would make this worse by increasing the leverage in a fall. If you look at the riser I describe, it bridges the two mounts so they can not pivot thus preventing bar rotation. As to whether it works or makes things worse, all I can tell you is that the bars have not moved after dozens of hard drops since this was installed. There is a risk that the force has to go somewhere and so instead of the bars pivoting it could throw the forks out of alignment instead. I have not experienced this.
I am purchasing a 2017 A.T. . I also would like to get some tubeless wheels for the bike. I have looked at VMX but can not get anyone to respond to an email, nor could I get through on the phone, though they say they are in California. I know the product is made in China. I just found your video yesterday and noticed the Rally Rand wheels. I have sent them an email but can not find the wheels on their site anywhere. Can you provide anymore information on these wheels? Appreciate the video. The bike I am purchasing has the same safety equipment they you have listed and will be picking up some other items you have. A little concerned about the front forks as I am not going to spend that type of money for them.
Whoa. Just checked the Rally Raid site and it looks like they aren’t supporting Africa Twin at all anymore. Please comment if you hear back to let folks know if these are no longer being produced. I believe Woody’s Wheels will do a tubeless rear. I am not sure if they will also build a front with a safety lip. But worth giving them a call. A lot of people have success with a DIY Outex approach but I am hesitant to run tubeless without a safety bead. Many people have done it seemingly without issue but it is not recommended. As for the forks… its hard to say how common the sticktion problem really was. Enough that it comes up on the forums and suspension shops offer recoating services but still pretty rare i bet. Just pay attention to the forks when you are inspecting the bike. Look for wear on the stansion. Thanks for watching.
@@DiscoveryMotoADV yup, they are not manufacturing them anymore. This was their response. Marc, thank you for your email. I am sorry we no longer manufacture the wheels for the Africa Twin, I am sorry but we are unable to supply them. I like the style of the VMX with the outer spoke, but just not sure of their reputation. Woody's pricey but I guess you get what you pay for.
@@marcrobyn4844 Thanks for sharing their reply! Pity that they aren't supporting the AT anymore.
Wow, you have a ton of money into this bike! The front forks are 4K in Canada and the rear’s about $1600. You’ve done a nice job with your choices. I changed the gearing on mine too, I also installed a healtech speedo healer. Works well and found a short cut to make the install relatively easy. Thanks for the video!
Great video, thanks! May I ask you, I want to know Manual transmission vs DCT. What is your opinion, please?
Thanks for watching! I think this is really a matter of personal preference - no right answer. I personally prefer the manual for two reasons: (1) the DCT is a little more mechanically complex and I prefer to err on the side of maximal simplicity since this makes the bike more reliable and easier to service in case of breakdown and (2) I believe that having a clutch gives me more precise control in technical terrain and it has definitely saved me from what would have been a few pretty bad crashes in some "whiskey throttle" situations. I recommend a couple of good videos from Bret Tkacs below on this topic to help you make a decision.
ua-cam.com/video/pgeYoG_mvts/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/wZXC7P7F6Fo/v-deo.html
I did a manual transmission and put a quck shifter on it
@@chris.kiser86 Thanks for sharing! What year is your bike? I didn’t even know this was possible on the 2017 but based on some googling it looks like it is by plugging directly into the coils instead of the computer.
Afrca twin 2017 - 45mm inverted telescopic fork; 9.06 in. travel
Africa twin 2016 - Inverted Showa® 45mm fork w/ 8.0 in. travel; adjustable compression, rebound damping & hydraulic adjustable preload
good morning, does this data above mean that the AT2016 has a lower suspension than the AT 2017? what are the differences between them. AT 2016 and AT 2017?
biker greeting
Miroslav
I have only owned the 2017 so can’t speak about the 2016 from experience. What is the source of the above data? Honda does model updates every two years and, In the US at least, there were no changes between 2016 and 2017. 9.06in travel at the forks is correct for both years from what I can tell.
Where csn we find more details on the tubeless wheels?
Have you modified the OEM wheels or you bought new tubeless set?
The tubeless wheels are from Rally Raid. They are currently out of stock but if I understand correctly they do intend to resume production at some point. You will have to check with them. These wheels have the safety bead on both wheels and are sealed for Rally Raid with a galvanized rubber process from a company called bartubeless. A much cheaper but seemingly effective alternative people take is to seal the wheels themselves with available kits or various DIY approaches. I was not happy with this approach because you would still be missing the safety bead and risking having the tire slip off under certain conditions. But there are people on the forums that have ridden thousands of miles without incident with that kind of setup.
@@DiscoveryMotoADV thanks for your response. All clear.
Great vid. The section regarding tube vs tubeless is a bit inaccurate as your example are both "tube" wheels and the opposite is the reality. A tubeless wheel will loose air faster. But we get the point. Well explained and laid out! THANK YOU!
Thanks for watching and commenting! Ah. You are right that I mis-spoke and said ‘tubed’ both times. doh! Though I disagree that tubeless wheel will lose air faster. I have caught a nail in my tubeless tires before and didn’t even notice air loss until the end of the day. I have never blow a tube at freeway speed but I think it is well accepted that a tube, if punctured with something as large as a nail, can burst like a balloon resulting in instant loss of pressure.
I've only heared that tubeless loses air slow and tubed is a fast loss of air! Could you explain for me as it's the tubes that put me off buying the base model, which imo is a better bike over the adventure sport!
@@terrystratford1235I also would like to know where he learned this, most likely talking from his @$$ though
Great video explaining upgrades and setup. Now that you have heavily upgraded the bike, would you consider trading your bike in for a newer 2020 - 2022 AT? The negative would be cost, since you most likely have this bike paid off. I went to a Honda dealer and with tax the 2022 DCT Adventure was $17,900 and that did not include tax and other fees.
Great question. I actually had a comment in the video about this but cut it out to keep things concise. I personally would NOT make the trade. The 2017 is the last year Honda kept things simple on this bike (cable throttle, minimal electronics). I like the idea of keeping things as simple as possible to increase reliability and field repairability on a bike that I take into remote places and often alone. In terms of cost, this bike cost about 17,000 all in. 8,500 for the used AT with 10k miles on it and about the same in total upgrades (some of which, like crash protection, you will still need on the new AT). And of course the Ohlins suspension and RR wheels are still going to be better than the new AT. So, I would strongly recommend going with a pre 2018 used AT and then upgrading to your preferences (unless computerized riding modes are very important for you). With respect to DCT, thats a personal preference thing. I prefer manual as I feel it gives me better control in slow technical terrain. Also, have you considered the T7? If I was buying today, thats the bike I would buy.
@@DiscoveryMotoADV Thank you for the feedback. Simple makes sense. I am currently looking to buy a AT and will take your viewpoint into consideration . I will take a look at the T7 also. Thanks!
@@DiscoveryMotoADV Have exactly same thinking... but i like DCT...