The artificer section reminded me of a thing i worked with my dm on. I didn't trust our fighter, so I made him a suit of armor and infused it, so should he decide to go against me I could simply break the enchantments that made the armor functional. High recommendation.
i had a chr who was pro-bbeg, as a reward for defeating one of the vampire defectors he gave me a suit of red armor, which ignored strength requirements, we found out later it was a animated armor so the second I went against the big bad he had it walk way and start to fight us. fun moments.
@@aaronwhodrums5438I highly doubt that adding a function to an item that states “if you actively decide to fuck me over, this item becomes useless to you” will have any affect at all to the players ability to play a fighter.
@@nicho.7400 ultimately, I assume this was agreed upon and is fine. But it's still a power dynamic of "i can take away your armor bonus at any point" can be dicey... My philosophy is that no player can have agency over another player unless agreed by both parties. If a player fucks someone over, they'll be leaving my table
@@aaronwhodrums5438 i was the player, it was curse of strahd which does not have plate armor in reach of the players you dont get enough gold to buy anything, so it was fine. i was also playing an echo knight/warlock multi so i just did some ranged until i got my leather armor back and on, which was a few hrs the bbeg did the armor swap in one of the towns, when i showed that i did not trust him entirely.
in my homebrew, warlocks can attempt to make pacts themselves, possibly gaining greater power, spells, items, etc, OR they can go through an agency that argues on their behalf, setting protections in place, soul use limits, costs, etc. So when one of the BIG devils showed up to talk to the party, the barbarian offered up WHATEVER THE DEVIL WANTED in exchange for clues about the story and mcguffin. The warlock and rogue were like "bro what, without legal representation?!"
Thats really cool! Would like to try that with a Sorcerer as well, or something given they are supposed to have a strong magical lineage, especially if their race is something a bit extra, Teifling for example.
Devil: I mean... I can directly show you all the way to him and try get a lost of weaknesses by tomorrow, but... Can you partake in contracts with your... Less than ideal intelligence, I mean, you know where your guardians/tutor are?
@@franconunez925me who always give my warlocks decent to high intelligence (depending on my rolls) for this reason: who's intelligence are you insulting?
I actually made a warlock who was a deal maker his whole backstory was that he was a salesman that caught the eye of an arch fey and they offered him a job he makes deals on their behalf and they give him magical power he can do what he likes with.
LOVE a deal-maker. One of my favourite archetypes. There's often overlap with trickster archetypes, as well as often some fae logic/morality, and it all just makes my inner folklore nerd happy. You KNOW the deal maker is going to be trouble, but most of the time you WANT to like them, they're charming, after all! Surely one little deal can't hurt... "Pretempt" new word just dropped! :D I enjoy the mental image of a barbarian who refuses to rage unless there's something in it for them. Just casually leaning against a wall while the bard gets flung through the air by a BBEG (again). "Could use a little help here!?" "You gonna let me use your go faster boots?" "Fine! FINE! just HELP!"
I also love the concept, for the campaign one of the people in my group will be running I’m going to be playing a Half-Orc Fey Wanderer Ranger, They want to be a Fey Warlock but has failed to form a pact with a Fey so they have travelled for yrs along side a fey spirt hoping to convince it to become its patron but the Fey has been leading the Ranger on and sending him off in a direction to watch the character but in turn the Ranger has started to become Fey-like becoming more and more like one especially focused on deal making, especially ones in their favor
I have a warlock whos a deal maker too became a fey warlock because of how good he was at making deals they wanted him to basically make contracts on their behalf.
I think a fun and mechanical way to make deals is to use the UA feature of the Ceremony spell: “Investiture (UA). You touch one willing humanoid. Choose one 1st-level spell you have prepared and expend a spell slot and any material components as if you were casting that spell. The spell has no effect. Instead, the target can cast this spell once without having to expend a spell slot or use material components. If the target doesn’t cast the spell within 1 hour, the invested spell is lost.” Pretty much, as a PC, you could basically make some commoner a weaker version of a Warlock, by giving them a spell for accomplishing some task.
Ooh, Ceremony is one of my favorite spells for the Spell Tattoo infusion since you can make Holy Water for free if you don't use it for anything else before you long rest, but this is a fun way to use it! Heck, maybe we could reflavor a spell tattoo needle as a contract written in blood as you press the needle to the skin to activate its effect!
Choose a first level spell you have prepared and expend a spell slot. Does not define what leveled spell slot is expended. Edit for clarification: cast ceremony to give a creature a first leveled spell you have prepared, lets say hellish rebuke or burning hands, or even searing smite. Upcast the spell to 4th level, now a creature you chose can use a first level spell with a 4th leveled spell slot. Even if this does not work, given you can give any creature a 1st level spell like find familiar. Give your familiar a spell tattoo or investiture ceremony of find familiar.
I'm actually playing a deal maker, who technically speaking has absolutely ripped off a higher power being, the being though is a CEO who my character was more than happy to take for all he's worth. It's been so fun, walking around like I know everything, when in all reality the m has barely given me much of anything, but I've been piecing together shit, pef and right.
The main missing link in making a magic dealmaker is the lack of any method to compel the other side to follow through. In Hazbin all the flashing green lights and the symbolism of the strings is to let us know that in the future when Alastor calls in his "little favor" Charlie will have no choice but to comply. That's where things like lending out magic items as an artificer or favors as a warlock fall short, d&d doesn't have a mechanic of forced compliance other than say Geas which we can all agree is far too high level to really be relevant here.
Most commentd here mention the benefits turning off and themselves becoming the penalty. You don't have to force them, as long as the item can kill the character
If you look up Verdant Prince(deal maker and rulers of the feywild). It’s a thing. If someone breaks the deal they immediately fall ill, and the other person on the deal is given their location and will continue to know this information. I don’t know too much about it, but being sick and alerting your “partner” that you broke the deal is a convincing way to keep things going.
I don't think "forced compliance" is good. I see signing a contract as a overcomplicated death spell. It makes more sence if there is something that lies dormant unless certian conditions are met. Like a NDA that makes you explode if you mention something. Or something that requiinterview lie for 2 hours during an interveiw. If forced compliance was a thing, I'd write a 1 party contract forcing me to clean my room.
I am playing a dealmaker warlock. I love making deals. My character doesn't typically give power, but provides services. The deal with her patron is the main example. Her patron is desperate for freedom and in exchange for the freedom he gives her, she will free him too. She is her patron's only hope and only friend and it's that dynamic that led her to make a beneficial deal. The actual campaign though? The most recent deal made in character was with another dealmaker. This NPC typically deals in time, which my PC absolutely rejects. Then the NPC asked for the true name of my PC's father, someone my PC hated and a big political figure in his plane. It's surprisingly power I have as a PC where I lose nothing and the both of us gain something. I think it's really cool, neither of us plan to gain at the expense of the other but we certainly want the best out of this exchange. I love my DM for making that deal possible. He knew I want to play a dealmaker. I never got to roll anything because DM loves roleplay, and simply had to convince NPCs to agree to my terms. It's so fun. There's moments where I can clearly tell my DM is throwing me a bone, and there are moments I genuinely outsmarted his NPCs. There's just something satisfying about dealing with people more powerful than I ever could be yet coming out losing basically nothing.
This reminds me of a character concept I have an aasimar life cleric who’s all about this, he’ll only heal for their servitude and gratitude, he goes after people who he believes are susceptible to his charisma and need something desperately
Here's a few keywords with Alastor's deal with Charlie "One deal AT A TIME of my choosing where you harm no one." He switched it up without many noticing where it could easily backstab the main cast if he so chooses since he technically has infinite favors from Charlie as long as they're 1 at a time And you can do a lot of damage without causing harm Alastor is definitely the perfect example of making deals as inspiration for making deal makers
Unfortunately with how deals work, he put a comma between One deal and at a time. Theres a big difference between “One deal at a time, of my choosing” And “One deal, at a time of my choosing” Alastor puts the pause between deal and at meaning he only has one deal
Dealmaker is actually one of my most played archetypes, pretty weird since it seems kinda tricky, but yeah information brokers (In academic or Intrigue sense depending on character), entertainers with connections that provide access, crafters that provide goods and so on, I really love it, from spies to gangsters to artists, it's just a lot of fun, it also works because you can do it with a super optimized character that excels in combat and it works, or you can be completely useless in combat (D&D isn't the only TTRPG I play) and it works because the value that you provide to the group becomes being savvy in negotiations and getting them access to resources, places or people, in my experience works a lot better in games with less focus on combat, but even in D&D, one of my favourite characters I ever played was a Warlock that hid the fact that they could use magic, and appeared to be mostly useless in combat by fighting very sub optimally (Character was actually good in combat, but I just didn't use the combat features) in combat with just a crossbow, but all the magic was used for intrigue and stuff, using the ability to see through walls and read text and stuff, as far as the party was concerned they were just a very savvy smooth talking scholar studied the occult, it wasn't really until like 5 sessions in the they revealed they could do magic, and only because a party member was about to die in combat and someone needed to get them out, so I dimension doored him out of danger, it was a very dramatic reveal. For the record, everyone in the party was aware that I was playing this, they were as into the idea as I was, so it was OK, they weren't upset I was fighting sub optimally or anything, wouldn't recommend playing this specific brand of Deal Maker unless the party is OK with it, as having someone make deliberately sub optimal combat choices in combat can be frustrating to other players.
One particularly fun deal maker a friend and I came up with. He acts as a benefactor for the party and asks seemingly innocent things. Kill the big bad, deal with bandits, typical quests, he offers loot and quest rewards. Every villain you defeat though means less competition for him. Every quest you complete brings him closer to his goals. And by the time you realize what is going on it might be too late to stop him.
An extra reminder for the deal maker: These guys are opportunistic. They plan, and plot, and wait until you literally can't say no. Then they offer a deal. They don't make offers to happy, safe people. They make deals with the desperate, the down on their luck. They empower you in your time of need only to wield you like a tool.
I love playing Deal Makers, although they're rarely the super powered kind. One of my favorite archetypes to play is the Lawful Evil Mastermind, and as part of that, I love making deals. My characters will often build up trust with the other players and allies to eventually strike deals that will favor him. Currently, we're building a base in a town we've gotten control of (legally) and my guy is starting an orphanage. The party is well aware that he's evil, but he's also not the kind to cause problems, so they think he's just doing it as a PR move, so they agreed to help him. He has bigger plans for the orphanage, and will strike many deals with the kids he raises. (PS: He's a villain with standards, he may do heinous things, but even he has lines he won't cross.)
For the last part of the archetype, you could quote Lemmy from Motörhead : If you like to gamble i tell you i'm your man You win some, lose some, it's all the same to me The pleasure is to play And Playing for the High one, dancing with the Devil, going with the flow, it's all a game to me
If you work with your DM you could also take the Hellsing approach to this archetype as well. Instead of leveling up with your party you START at max level with your perfectly min maxed broken character but you have your power broken into specific levels of seals, like Alucard restriction levels. What level of power you are able to access is determined by the payment and deal being offered at the time, so if your party wants you to use more power they have to give a command and payment for it. You can even add a great story telling part of it where your character got its power by making a deal of its own so it is able to use its full power for defending its only life but ONLY its own life and accessing that power takes an action.
5:01 for a moment I thought you would say "Villainous" and talk about Black Hat because he makes deals frecuently and we can not only see the consecuences bust speculate why he ask for very specific things, but Alastor works too even if the only consecuences of a sould deal can be briefly seen with Husk.
You could play a djinn. You can basically cast wish for free, but only in response to someone's actual wish, and through those are your only opportunity to gain anything for yourself by perverting them
This entire video reminds me of a character I made as a backup for one of the games I play in, Ingrim Hastur, a Warlock/Bard multiclass who was essentially an Alastor archetype. He was a Reborn with the subclasses of College of Spirits and Undead Patron. His entire "gimmick" was his Spiritual Focus was like a Phylactery, where he'd convince people to "tell him their story" and upon learning of this character's past, he'd place a fragment of their soul into his focus to use as he pleased, be it extra charges of something or refueling his Bardic Inspiration, or whatever it may be. He also made deals with people who were down on their luck. They'd get to tell their story and get a little gold in return, and Ingrim got more souls. His entire motivation for adventuring and joining the party was that the BBEG wanted to essentially wipe out all life in the realm, and to Ingrim, that BBEG was infringing on his right to become a villain in his own way. He wanted the power, the control, to make people trust him through sheer display alone. He hungered for power, stories, souls, and a good joke every now and then.
Armorer works best for that Artificer build, as you can cash in your favor by having the person wear your armor into battle instead of you, letting them take a lethal blow to spare your PC allies.
I play as a dealmaker Warlock in an evil campaign... Trust me... It works so perfectly, but it only works if the DM and other players like the idea of that character xD
This archetype is especially doable at higher levels where characters are more likely to have more influence or power to offer. It can even provide an interesting inter-party background/conflict if people are interested in setting one up beforehand. Case in point: though the particular character I played was not of this archetype, in a 10th-level holiday oneshot I played this year, my friend and I thought it would be a neat idea a few minutes before the game for my character to be his Warlock patron (albeit unbeknownst to his character). As it was a oneshot with the connection forged through the shared goal of defeating Santa Claus (freeing my character's lover, Krampus, from subjugation on my part, and seizing the means of production at the North Pole/unionizing his fellow Christmas Elves on his part), the potential of the inter-party patron dynamic wasn't one that we got anywhere near close to exploring. But if I have the option to actually dig into the concept down the line, I'd love to play around with how that sort of dealmaker/benefactor relationship can be expanded upon and the kind of stories that can be told with it. Much like was stated in going over playing this archetype as an Artificer, while offering raw power or some sort of Warlock-style special abilities is a great way to create this sort of character, there's also cases like Alastor which primarily offer information or assistance that a benefactor desperately needs. Whether this be using influence or resources as a means of providing that to a PC or NPC, there are a lot of forms this can take. Especially, to repeat myself briefly, with the power, resources, and influence characters typically have at higher levels of gameplay. And if the benefactor DOES get power out of the deal (vis-a-vie playing a Warlock), there's the power imbalance to play around with at the idea that the power can be taken away, leaving them with less power than the other PCs, or that it comes with some hidden clauses and conditions that need to be met with consequences for failing to do so. But, as stated in the video, this is VERY much not for every table. Aside from clashing with the more "be strong and hit stuff" tables (no shade; those can be fun as hell), even the kind of character/narrative-focused tables this archetype is made for still require a LOT of trust, respect, and above-board boundaries to keep from causing actual harm from the (often) toxic character dynamics this character breeds more often than not.
i onced played an Abberrant mind sorcerer whose magic stemmed from being a vessel of an Archdemon. towards the end of the game, we found an NPC, and he forged a pact with them - turning them into a warlock.
This is honestly perfect for a future character of mine. He's a hag that had his life saved as a mortal by making a deal with Titania, and now I have an idea of pretty much how I'd play him: a deal maker that focuses in on trying to strengthen his protection for his Fey Court, either through giving boons or a prid pro quo or even making vague but still surface level meaningful deals he could twist ibto causing a Contract breaking.
Got a tip on the roleplaying aspect of the dealmaker. Use the carrot and stick method. There must be a reward for accepting the deal and a punishment for not doing their part after accepting the deal. Make sure the deal gives a relevant short term benefit to your target but ask for a bigger long term benefit for yourself. Timing is important, some circumstances may make the target desperate enough to accept despite a high price. The punishment for not doing part of their deal could be a form of blackmail if the favor you did for them is shady, intimidation can also work if you have the power to back up your treats or if you know where to hurt them. You can also enforce your deals with subtle enchantments or curses.
There is also the option of being the "middleman". Instead of killing People to collect Souls for your Warlock Patron, why not give it a twist and instead of having to kill people, for whatever reason, the Patron gives the Warlock the duty to go out and make deals with people that would eventually cost them their souls. The Patron could then bestow upon these poor souls any kind of blessing that would be within the limits of that patron, maybe even Warlock levels if that is something the DM is willing to do. And for being the Patrons favorite and middleman, the Patron bestows some exclusive rewards to the Warlock in question? Very evil aligned example, but it doesn't have to be souls and can be whatever great idea springs into your head. It doesn't really fill the niche that "your Character" gives the NPCs their Power or blessings, but nobody except the DM and the Warlock have to know that, and it could still fill the niche of a Dealmaker where you outwit the people to trap them into bargains, just that the boons they receive as part of the Deal are borrowed from the Patron.
I did this and it was great. I did however introduce an aspect of my character, being not a real person, not understanding how context changed the value of things. As an example: It was a pirate campaign. He could grant the power to breathe under water for 24 hours. Whether he conducted this deal on land while everyone was fine or under water while everyone was drowning, his terms remained the same. To him, he is providing the same service even if to everyone else the demand for the service has changed drastically. Thing is, he always left the payment vague; they only owed him a favor. In this way he could ask for whatever he needed at any moment, whether it was equal to the original service or not. The bound people could say no, but what they didn't know was anyone who died while oweing his patron a favor would immediately get sucked to her domain. So he didn't mind if he never got the favor repaid; he was still serving his patron's needs. As a fun little note, when someone made a deal with him a chain would appear on their body and they couldn't take it off. The bigger the service rendered the bigger the chain. It ranged from a pinky ring chain for "cleaning this skunk spray off me" to a necklace for "making me the captain" to the body being bound in chains bdsm style for if he brought them back to life.
I have played a deal maker before. A Battle Smith Artificer/Eloquence Bard multiclass who is not only an inventor, but also a traveling salesman who sells what he crafts. He was not only good in selling his inventions (the pocket clock in an era before clocks existed), but also in seeing the potential in others, setting up deals to teach others how to craft what he made, and learning ideas for new inventions along the way. He would help people steer away from bad deals and point out scams and forgeries, only to then teach the scammers and forgers how to better twist their skills to be beneficial to others while still making money. Having forgers market their goods more honestly as 'affordable replicas of existing works' for a lower price of the original works. Currently the party is trying to uncover a coup plot, and my character is aiming to use uncovering said plot as a stepping stone to making a deal to have his next invention funded and set up the very first steam engine train between their kingdom and his homeland to the east.
One way to do a deal in terms of mechanics can be a pact, much like in jjk. Maybe it's a short term goal, like using pact of the talisman for helping an ally, or pact of the tome with gift of the protecctors. You can flavor a warlock like the cursed sorcerers and allow use of your spells, or rather spell scrolls. Or a 'until long rest, you are able to cast a single spell for free, so long as it's one i know.'
This happened yesterday at my table! It wasn't planned at all, just a Nat 1 that had quite the Snowball effect. We didn't even really notice until the deal was already too late and the deal was made. The only thing that could have been made at that point was trying to get the most of that deal (to at least allegedly not bite the party in the ass). We all leveled up, but the PC that made the deal was forced into a level of warlock. Which he has to keep as a secret from the party. It's going to be interesting.
I didn't realize this until about the 15 minute mark, but I had a "deal maker" character; a cleric, to boot. The deal was that, for a fee, he would offer his Cure spells to the party, and he charged them as if they were buying the spellcasting services instead of something static, like a potion, which both made it cheaper to the party (10-20 gp per spell used vs 50gp for the potion) and gave me reason to persue avenues for making sure his services were always better than other options. Reason why he charged them was "Because faith requires money"; the gold would be reinvested into the party in the form of equipment and gear, and half of whatever was left over would get donated to the local church that aligned with his beliefs. He was also very upfront about this reasoning, and did have a way for the ones that he trusted to "opt out" of future payments.
Literally made an entire Warlock subclass based around this, called the Contractor. It has a bunch of fun abilities, and the main thing that you as the player are wanting in these eldritch deals, like Alastor, is the other person’s soul. The more souls you get, the more powerful you are, until you basically become one of the well-known patrons of the world. It actually has this really cool capstone ability where, as an action (although I may modify it to take your entire turn), you can summon all of the people who’ve sold their souls to you to complete some major task, usually to fight for you. If they die, they can respawn back to where they were in a few days or so. But if their soul is destroyed, not only do they die permanently, but you lose that soul. So kind of like the gambling thing, it’s a high risk/high reward system, since you basically get your own small army to fight for you
My Druid was a deal-maker. She had a very Will Turner way of going about it. She was always after information and got it in a roundabout way, making deals to expose the information and later playing through the actual deal. Lost every time but got what she wanted every time.
If you think about it giving out Warlock Invocations for deals feels great and makes all of those non eldritch blast ones actually be used and those are powers that could be asked for.
Ya know, if you wanted to play something like this, you could use Grim Hollow, a setting with specific mechanics for granting power to your underlings if you have undertaken a monsterous tranformation
I love running Curse of Strahd with Strahd being the Deal Maker. I ended up making a spin off campaign from a CoS that kind of spiraled into a whole other thing. Lots of fun.
I once played a halfling merchant in Forbidden Lands, he would draw up contracts with NPCs to get them to aid the party, but he always had a little catch in the fine print, which led to the party often getting what we needed for a particular quest but then we would often be promptly chased out of town once the NPCs learned of the fine print
I've played this archetype in a game, but I used a College of Eloquence bard for it. You always have that charmed allure because of Silver Toughn and magic that can buff or debuff based on your "contracts." I had to work with the DM a bit to figure out magic contracts, but a lot of the deals I made with NPCs and players were political ones.
Love your energy. I host a social interaction themed game where deal making is a facet of the world but only some people can start offers. Making it a facet of the world allows me to adjust for a certain level of balance and always have some control over how a deal plays out even if it's between players, because if they under offer or over sell the verse might do something non-ideal as a side effect. Ironically the player with the power to create deals keeps over giving to try to impress others, it's such a double edged sword, yet he just keeps doing it; which is delicious as a GM.
Thanks a lot for making this, this came at the perfect time for me. In the game I am currently running I have a deal maker character who the party will meet really soon so I’ve been doing a lot of research on the topic.
Thank you for making a video about this. A good friend of mine created his own tabletop game from scratch, very fun to play, but getting really good gear, skills, spells, etc. always feels like free climbing up a sheer cliff. If he's going easy on you. I've wanted to get better at trying to make deals in his game so my character can really start getting some good stuff going. This has already helped immensely just watching through once, and after a couple more to solidify everything in my head I should be in a much better position to make things happen pretty quickly. Thank you, sir.
As a DM, I personally find the best way to run a Deal-Maker NPC is to make someone who genuinely delivers on their offers... A reputation that they twist their deals against the deal maker... But not a single story where the giver hasn't delivered exactly what the deal was made for. Even alluding in the runors it was because of the makers getting too greedy with their gifts. Which can give the players the feeling that they can try to outsmart the patient deal-giver who simply waits for the opportunity to present a deal. Especially if its a deal to provide an easy... Yet dubious quick solution that might bite the player in the butt later, compared to the normal slow but sure answer.
The way this almost perfectly fits my current main character (unintentionally) ... We're only a bit in bt her entire model is "I help you and in return all I ask is that you do me one favour". Haven't played her much so far so idk how it'll play out in future but ... Ive already gotten an assassin (another PC) in my service with a hit on my main enemy because we got her to attack one of my people on sacred ground. Making that deal felt AMAZING (the power in/from it). Isn't what the favour would usually be (which would be their aid in overthrowing the baddies down the line) but we're flexible~ 😌
I have been trying to come up with a good way to play a Deal Maker PC for a long time. I love the idea of giving a Level to an NPC and then "Calling in the contract" to explain your own level up. Thanks for this video!
The Cyberpunk ttrpg has a role just for this, the Fixer, it allows you to be the person who knows people in the game world. Their part of the structure is streetwise, allowing you to find sellers, buyers and jobs. It's hard to play but when you play it right it's amazing
The Dealmaker is my go to archetype every time. Currently im playing a Warlock and the last 3 sessions im locked in a battle of wit againts an ancient forgotten god to make a deal that could destroy the world or save it. Ita been a hell of a time. Discusing the minutes of every detail and trying to gain small consesions while not giving anu room for shananigans in the terms... the yet to agree and sign contract is already 12 pages long
Levels can be done from a gameplay perspective even if you take a exp hit on collection if you have 12 npcs who took exp aka power from you an their cultivating their own power well the debt is eventually due with interest an if they die in the the process its just bigger profits , Its like being a summoner with very stong willed an independent pets.
One D&D's playtests include a College of Dance subclass for bard! My next character is going to be a fire-based flow artist to fit into the dancer archetype. It'd be cool to see what other concepts people come up with for it.
Actual contract magic systems are amazing for this archetype. Which is a staple of demon magic in many non-D&D systems. I have no idea how much it exists in D&D, but some tier 5+ magic from e3.5 was able to do those things to some extent.
See also: boons, in Vampire: the Masquerade. The social systems for boons in Vampire are... kind of "step one, draw a line; step two, draw the rest of the owl" about it as game mechanics, from all the versions of the game I have seen. But the description of boons in the By Night Studios stuff is the best I've seen yet for putting exactly this kind of deal-making square in the middle of play by making it a key MacGuffin of the setting players must interact with.
Each time you make a deal with a character and give them a level in warlock, your current character level decreases by one, and your maximum character level decreases by one. The best way to balance a deal maker character, make them feel the transfer of power. If they die without you breaking your end of the contract (directly killing them/your allies directly killing them/deliberately manipulating them into a situation you know will result in their death - excluding suicide missions where they are fully aware of the odds), you get that power back.
I had an idea where the dealmaker could provide class features, but not levels. For example of a person could acquire an eldritch invocation or something like a once per short rest sneak attack. Still powerful, but somewhat situational.
You know, I kinda always wanted to play a deal maker. tiefling artificer who works with clovers and likes to talk about luck and deals. Even play it all off as they are someone who made a bad deal and now has the power they have from said deal. Plus I think to get 4 infusions I only need to get to level 8 in artificer. Then I can move yo sorcerer or wizard to sell the power fantasy.
Worth noting, there are systems that handle this pretty well. Changeling: The Lost has it baked in as a core part of the game, with entire systems around making deals.
I played a Hexblade Warlock dealmaker. The GM actually allowed me to forge pacts with people, but overall I kept the deals to services provided. Which included the party. In combat I would spend spells or cantrips, but I never engaged in melee. They didn't know I could until several sessions in we were doing gladiatorial battles and I wrecked my opponent with sheer melee power. The GM was just as surprised.
Give the player a special skill: Deal-Maker's insight. With a successful insight check, the deal maker learns what their target values and desires, what will temp them the most it what pressure you can use as leverage to manipulate them
You can kinda play this like some form of summoner. Instead of just putting a bear in front of an enemy, you have 1, 2, or 3 actual people. Sure, they can take and deal more damage, but when they die, they DIE. You have to make them come with you with some sort of reason. You have to feed them, water them, and provide shelter when just travelling.
One way to play a deal-maker without going against the party could be to have a Black Butler dynamic with one of the other PCs-as part of a deal, you are bound to their service (though there are obviously guidelines about what that entails so it’s still fun to play), but both of you know you’re waiting for them to slip up so you can come collect. But, until then, you have to be willing to fight and die for them, should they command it. The rest of the party, however, you’re only bound to help as far as your ward explicitly orders, leaving you room to make side-deals with them in exchange for you extending your hand further.
I think I could do a lot with a spell that just curses the user and a willing target in such a way that if either side doesn't uphold the terms of an agreement, they face magical consequences. Those consequences could be enforced by a warlock patron and since the effect is symmetrical, it justifies the precision and harshness of the enforcement.
One of my favorite characters, a zealot barb/undead warlock sold his soul to some entity to try and save his family that didnt work. Then after years being ignored and unable to die to rejoin his family he tried the Constantine method of trading others souls to "buy" his back. Worked out a thing with the dm where he'd offer a dice to someone, and depending on how they rolled on a d6 determined how bad the monkey paw effect would be. Kept the party in the dark on the specifics, and they loved but never trusted my character lol. Especially when the wizard couldnt figure out exactly what the dice were. I left it up to the party to determine how my character grew morally through them building connections with him personally and it was just an amazing time.
pirate constantly betting the odds. genie pack with a invisible familiar to help tilt the odds in our favor. the imp constantly whispers temptations or tries to fools us out of a sure thing.
Your section on the power gamer reminded me of my, and a couple friend's, favourite way to make characters for one DM in particular. We make a fun, interesting character. But almost always have layers of power gamed bullshit that we basically never pull out. The DM has a habit of both making things harder/worse the stronger a character or party is, and throwing insane challenges once in a while regardless. At this point its basically an assumed agreement that we will play at a fun and reasonable power level, and that if/when he decides to pull out something bullshit then we are also going to "go all out". This is of course something that has been built up over 10+ years being friends and playing together, but I have used similar tactics in games with new players or dms. Make a character capable of handling almost anything in the game, but play them to the proficiency/power of the party and campaign. Gives you room to adjust without retraining/rerolling.
if you are a deal maker you are lending them your power. i’ve never played dnd but it would be kind cool idea. the more power you give the better odds of success you have and more disadvantage the other person has against your suggestions. the borrower gets a % of your total stat they want. hey maybe if they take to much power they have too resist a kind of mind control role or being tied like husk to you.
I'm about to DM a Pathfinder 2e game for the first time in just a couple of days, and one of my players is playing as an oracle that got their power by making a deal with a devil. Watching this video made me realize that this devil doesn't just have to interact with that one player. All of the players have something he could exploit. I.e.: a mother who lost her child, a poppet that wants to feel loved and alive, and an automaton seeking their origins... this is going to be fun!
I loved Brennan Lee Mulligan's returned Warlock who was his own Patron from the past. I don't remember the name of the campaign tho... It was a pair of Strixhaven one-shots
This reminded me of an idea I had awhile back. May have brought it up here before. TLDR they were a lord of the Hells stripped of their power, and looking to get it back via deals on the Material. Issue is I am *not* a charismatic person - and i am well aware of this - and I know if I tried to play this character, I'll need to get out of my comfort zone to make it work. ^^; I'm a more passive player than an active one, but the issue being...well, *active.*
The algorithm sent me your way probably because I’ve been trying to write up a devil‘s contract for one of my players. I love your content, and I’ll have to look up more of your stuff!
I don't know how many dm's do this since you didn't mention it, but all the DM's I've played with give artifecer's the albily to turn their infusions into fully real magic items at half the time/cost it would normally take making any downtime after getting money a way to give the whole party magic items without crippling yourself.
Hey! Love this series. I think the archetype outlined in this video comes really close to scratching an itch I have but is just barely not there. The archetype I'm looking to play is the "patron." Not like a warlock. I mean like a... Sponsor. A person who seeks the employ of the party. The guy whose lavish estate the adventurers convenes in. The guy who secures the skyship to the neighboring country where the evil cult is located. The guy who can get you into the incredibly exclusive gala whose host you're trying to stop from being assassinated. The guy who can track down and secure the incredibly rare magic weapon that the fighter's been begging for. And, importantly, the guy who might call in a big favor for all of this continued support. I don't want to play rumpelstiltskin, I want to play Lord Eshteross from CritRole campaign 3. A subtle difference, to be sure, I'm not sure if it would even warrant another video, but it _is_ a difference. I wanna be Bruce Wayne by day, helping loyal employees kick ass by giving them exciting toys, and Batman by night, helping my fellow adventurers kick ass in the most *immediate* sense.
At least in 3.5 you could handle trading for power as level adjustment (or something similar) so that its basically a short term boost that goes away because it replaces your next normal level up
The idea for this I've had is a warlock who plays the salesman for his patron. He's recruiting and negotiating the deal, the patron supplies the goods. The warlock after all is an agent of his patron--use that.
Thanks for this awesome video, Alastor is my favorite! 😍Really loved your concepts about artificers, and I actually have an artificer PC in my current 4e campaign! The character is very much good aligned, but I'll be for sure sharing this with the player to see if he's interested.
Demon: the Fallen form World of Darkness is a great system for playing deal makes. (and considering you are playing demons it really needs to be.) You can pass powers to anyone that invokes your celestial name, but there are risk of things going wrong with the people you made a deal with if they ever find out your true name, the power dynamic between you and you the one you made the deal will shift utterly in their favour.
In fact, there's a synonymous term for "Deal Makers" that's used in Tarot Cards! *_The Magician_* They always have a good card under their sleeves for when they need them the most. Learned about this kind of stuff thanks to Cyberpunk 2077! ❤ For more context, Misty's Esoterica was where you could talk with a friend who'd help foreshadow events of the game so long as you explored the map and collected Tarot Cards.
Lilim in _In Nomine_ are built around this concept. More generally, any world with rules for earning and trading favors-including boons in _Vampire: The Masquerade_ and the coins of the John Wick universe-has a built-in way of playing a dealmaker.
My character has been making deals but not evil ones till he found an injured god while he had the only thing that can heal them which has excelled his transformation into a patron class entity
You give them magic item's, extra spells per day, more spells known. Or, more attunement slots, specifically for a magic item given by the deal maker. That, may or may not, let him track, spy on or otherwise gain information from the dealee.
As a DM I did make a creature who made deals to the power of a wish spell and not just anyone. A level was also available for creatures. One player made 3 deals, 1 for level, 1 for tons and tons of gold and third, and another one for lots of magic items. He could pay with people's souls. It didn't matter how, as long as he got them. He had to pay with more souls to keep his. The levels could go over 20, only up to 22 or so but levels were covered by 100 souls. The deals could be cosmic knowledge. The player agreed to the deals but wasn't specific. When he came up short and tried to destroy the devil I made, the tons of gold coins were delivered and each was a cursed magic item. It was also delivered to the character's stomach and crushed him. It was a fun day.
A fun way to play with this off the top of my head would be with a DM who treats dice as a resource, or currency Something bad happens to you, maybe as a result of an occasion where the players needed to make a deal for help, and as a result the DM takes a die away from the affected parties Then all it takes is one productive secret discussion, and suddenly your friendly tabletop car salesman has a neat surprise to bust out the next time the going gets tough Combine with creative use of dice jails for presentation, and you could even mess around with them not knowing which one they're bargaining for until the deal is struck
If you are in pathfinder 1e, being a deal maker is absolutely possible through the Witch class. Many things from the Witch class are through hexes, both helpful and hurtful. Since you have a patron, you are a deal maker, but your power is from another entity that works through you.
Faustian power bargains are hard to use in game, barring warlocks. That being said, a favor for a favor, or an object for an object is generally a good way to play a dealer. Bear in mind Dealers will always keep demand in mind, and go where their talents are wanted. Devious Dealers will often exploit the desire of a person to get something for free by providing the option of a wager instead of the Deal, but they are gonna make it hard for them with rules that are built to work against the party. There is always a chance to win, because they want enough hope to trick you into picking that option, but as you said "The house always wins." So good luck with that.
The artificer section reminded me of a thing i worked with my dm on. I didn't trust our fighter, so I made him a suit of armor and infused it, so should he decide to go against me I could simply break the enchantments that made the armor functional. High recommendation.
i had a chr who was pro-bbeg, as a reward for defeating one of the vampire defectors he gave me a suit of red armor, which ignored strength requirements, we found out later it was a animated armor so the second I went against the big bad he had it walk way and start to fight us. fun moments.
Meaning you, a player, had agency over another player's ability to play their class? Idk... About that. Hopefully it was discussed
@@aaronwhodrums5438I highly doubt that adding a function to an item that states “if you actively decide to fuck me over, this item becomes useless to you” will have any affect at all to the players ability to play a fighter.
@@nicho.7400 ultimately, I assume this was agreed upon and is fine. But it's still a power dynamic of "i can take away your armor bonus at any point" can be dicey... My philosophy is that no player can have agency over another player unless agreed by both parties. If a player fucks someone over, they'll be leaving my table
@@aaronwhodrums5438 i was the player, it was curse of strahd which does not have plate armor in reach of the players you dont get enough gold to buy anything, so it was fine. i was also playing an echo knight/warlock multi so i just did some ranged until i got my leather armor back and on, which was a few hrs the bbeg did the armor swap in one of the towns, when i showed that i did not trust him entirely.
in my homebrew, warlocks can attempt to make pacts themselves, possibly gaining greater power, spells, items, etc, OR they can go through an agency that argues on their behalf, setting protections in place, soul use limits, costs, etc. So when one of the BIG devils showed up to talk to the party, the barbarian offered up WHATEVER THE DEVIL WANTED in exchange for clues about the story and mcguffin. The warlock and rogue were like "bro what, without legal representation?!"
Thats really cool!
Would like to try that with a Sorcerer as well, or something given they are supposed to have a strong magical lineage, especially if their race is something a bit extra, Teifling for example.
Devil: I mean... I can directly show you all the way to him and try get a lost of weaknesses by tomorrow, but... Can you partake in contracts with your... Less than ideal intelligence, I mean, you know where your guardians/tutor are?
@@franconunez925me who always give my warlocks decent to high intelligence (depending on my rolls) for this reason: who's intelligence are you insulting?
I actually made a warlock who was a deal maker his whole backstory was that he was a salesman that caught the eye of an arch fey and they offered him a job he makes deals on their behalf and they give him magical power he can do what he likes with.
I love that lol, my hellhound lawyer would be really on that warlock and rogue's side.
LOVE a deal-maker. One of my favourite archetypes. There's often overlap with trickster archetypes, as well as often some fae logic/morality, and it all just makes my inner folklore nerd happy. You KNOW the deal maker is going to be trouble, but most of the time you WANT to like them, they're charming, after all! Surely one little deal can't hurt...
"Pretempt" new word just dropped! :D
I enjoy the mental image of a barbarian who refuses to rage unless there's something in it for them. Just casually leaning against a wall while the bard gets flung through the air by a BBEG (again). "Could use a little help here!?" "You gonna let me use your go faster boots?" "Fine! FINE! just HELP!"
I also love the concept, for the campaign one of the people in my group will be running I’m going to be playing a Half-Orc Fey Wanderer Ranger, They want to be a Fey Warlock but has failed to form a pact with a Fey so they have travelled for yrs along side a fey spirt hoping to convince it to become its patron but the Fey has been leading the Ranger on and sending him off in a direction to watch the character but in turn the Ranger has started to become Fey-like becoming more and more like one especially focused on deal making, especially ones in their favor
I have a warlock whos a deal maker too became a fey warlock because of how good he was at making deals they wanted him to basically make contracts on their behalf.
Hn the reluctant bruser type.
I think a fun and mechanical way to make deals is to use the UA feature of the Ceremony spell:
“Investiture (UA). You touch one willing humanoid. Choose one 1st-level spell you have prepared and expend a spell slot and any material components as if you were casting that spell. The spell has no effect. Instead, the target can cast this spell once without having to expend a spell slot or use material components. If the target doesn’t cast the spell within 1 hour, the invested spell is lost.”
Pretty much, as a PC, you could basically make some commoner a weaker version of a Warlock, by giving them a spell for accomplishing some task.
Ooh, Ceremony is one of my favorite spells for the Spell Tattoo infusion since you can make Holy Water for free if you don't use it for anything else before you long rest, but this is a fun way to use it!
Heck, maybe we could reflavor a spell tattoo needle as a contract written in blood as you press the needle to the skin to activate its effect!
Choose a first level spell you have prepared and expend a spell slot. Does not define what leveled spell slot is expended.
Edit for clarification: cast ceremony to give a creature a first leveled spell you have prepared, lets say hellish rebuke or burning hands, or even searing smite. Upcast the spell to 4th level, now a creature you chose can use a first level spell with a 4th leveled spell slot. Even if this does not work, given you can give any creature a 1st level spell like find familiar. Give your familiar a spell tattoo or investiture ceremony of find familiar.
That's actually kinda amazing. I see some potential there.
I'm actually playing a deal maker, who technically speaking has absolutely ripped off a higher power being, the being though is a CEO who my character was more than happy to take for all he's worth. It's been so fun, walking around like I know everything, when in all reality the m has barely given me much of anything, but I've been piecing together shit, pef and right.
@@nicholascasey6473gotta love officially being able to mass produce familiars as an artificer with those tattoos
"I'm gonna spoil Hazbin Hotel. So why not spoil Yourself, with some neat dice?" I got you Jay, for next time.
The main missing link in making a magic dealmaker is the lack of any method to compel the other side to follow through. In Hazbin all the flashing green lights and the symbolism of the strings is to let us know that in the future when Alastor calls in his "little favor" Charlie will have no choice but to comply. That's where things like lending out magic items as an artificer or favors as a warlock fall short, d&d doesn't have a mechanic of forced compliance other than say Geas which we can all agree is far too high level to really be relevant here.
Most commentd here mention the benefits turning off and themselves becoming the penalty. You don't have to force them, as long as the item can kill the character
Maby friends it is a cantrip.
If you look up Verdant Prince(deal maker and rulers of the feywild). It’s a thing. If someone breaks the deal they immediately fall ill, and the other person on the deal is given their location and will continue to know this information. I don’t know too much about it, but being sick and alerting your “partner” that you broke the deal is a convincing way to keep things going.
maruts enforce contracts lol
I don't think "forced compliance" is good. I see signing a contract as a overcomplicated death spell. It makes more sence if there is something that lies dormant unless certian conditions are met.
Like a NDA that makes you explode if you mention something. Or something that requiinterview lie for 2 hours during an interveiw.
If forced compliance was a thing, I'd write a 1 party contract forcing me to clean my room.
I am playing a dealmaker warlock. I love making deals. My character doesn't typically give power, but provides services. The deal with her patron is the main example. Her patron is desperate for freedom and in exchange for the freedom he gives her, she will free him too. She is her patron's only hope and only friend and it's that dynamic that led her to make a beneficial deal.
The actual campaign though? The most recent deal made in character was with another dealmaker. This NPC typically deals in time, which my PC absolutely rejects. Then the NPC asked for the true name of my PC's father, someone my PC hated and a big political figure in his plane. It's surprisingly power I have as a PC where I lose nothing and the both of us gain something. I think it's really cool, neither of us plan to gain at the expense of the other but we certainly want the best out of this exchange.
I love my DM for making that deal possible. He knew I want to play a dealmaker. I never got to roll anything because DM loves roleplay, and simply had to convince NPCs to agree to my terms. It's so fun. There's moments where I can clearly tell my DM is throwing me a bone, and there are moments I genuinely outsmarted his NPCs. There's just something satisfying about dealing with people more powerful than I ever could be yet coming out losing basically nothing.
This reminds me of a character concept I have an aasimar life cleric who’s all about this, he’ll only heal for their servitude and gratitude, he goes after people who he believes are susceptible to his charisma and need something desperately
The US Healthcare system
Here's a few keywords with Alastor's deal with Charlie
"One deal AT A TIME of my choosing where you harm no one."
He switched it up without many noticing where it could easily backstab the main cast if he so chooses since he technically has infinite favors from Charlie as long as they're 1 at a time
And you can do a lot of damage without causing harm
Alastor is definitely the perfect example of making deals as inspiration for making deal makers
Unfortunately with how deals work, he put a comma between One deal and at a time.
Theres a big difference between
“One deal at a time, of my choosing”
And
“One deal, at a time of my choosing”
Alastor puts the pause between deal and at meaning he only has one deal
@@EternaSoSleepy It is still extremely vague and dangerous, since he basically has the equivalent of Command Word: Stop against Charlie.
Bill AND Alastor in the thumbnail!? YES!
Dealmaker is actually one of my most played archetypes, pretty weird since it seems kinda tricky, but yeah information brokers (In academic or Intrigue sense depending on character), entertainers with connections that provide access, crafters that provide goods and so on, I really love it, from spies to gangsters to artists, it's just a lot of fun, it also works because you can do it with a super optimized character that excels in combat and it works, or you can be completely useless in combat (D&D isn't the only TTRPG I play) and it works because the value that you provide to the group becomes being savvy in negotiations and getting them access to resources, places or people, in my experience works a lot better in games with less focus on combat, but even in D&D, one of my favourite characters I ever played was a Warlock that hid the fact that they could use magic, and appeared to be mostly useless in combat by fighting very sub optimally (Character was actually good in combat, but I just didn't use the combat features) in combat with just a crossbow, but all the magic was used for intrigue and stuff, using the ability to see through walls and read text and stuff, as far as the party was concerned they were just a very savvy smooth talking scholar studied the occult, it wasn't really until like 5 sessions in the they revealed they could do magic, and only because a party member was about to die in combat and someone needed to get them out, so I dimension doored him out of danger, it was a very dramatic reveal.
For the record, everyone in the party was aware that I was playing this, they were as into the idea as I was, so it was OK, they weren't upset I was fighting sub optimally or anything, wouldn't recommend playing this specific brand of Deal Maker unless the party is OK with it, as having someone make deliberately sub optimal combat choices in combat can be frustrating to other players.
One particularly fun deal maker a friend and I came up with. He acts as a benefactor for the party and asks seemingly innocent things. Kill the big bad, deal with bandits, typical quests, he offers loot and quest rewards.
Every villain you defeat though means less competition for him. Every quest you complete brings him closer to his goals. And by the time you realize what is going on it might be too late to stop him.
An extra reminder for the deal maker: These guys are opportunistic. They plan, and plot, and wait until you literally can't say no. Then they offer a deal. They don't make offers to happy, safe people. They make deals with the desperate, the down on their luck. They empower you in your time of need only to wield you like a tool.
6:34 "People pay us for this" Sure do, and every penny is worth it.
I love playing Deal Makers, although they're rarely the super powered kind. One of my favorite archetypes to play is the Lawful Evil Mastermind, and as part of that, I love making deals. My characters will often build up trust with the other players and allies to eventually strike deals that will favor him. Currently, we're building a base in a town we've gotten control of (legally) and my guy is starting an orphanage. The party is well aware that he's evil, but he's also not the kind to cause problems, so they think he's just doing it as a PR move, so they agreed to help him. He has bigger plans for the orphanage, and will strike many deals with the kids he raises. (PS: He's a villain with standards, he may do heinous things, but even he has lines he won't cross.)
For the last part of the archetype, you could quote Lemmy from Motörhead :
If you like to gamble i tell you i'm your man
You win some, lose some, it's all the same to me
The pleasure is to play
And
Playing for the High one, dancing with the Devil, going with the flow, it's all a game to me
If you work with your DM you could also take the Hellsing approach to this archetype as well. Instead of leveling up with your party you START at max level with your perfectly min maxed broken character but you have your power broken into specific levels of seals, like Alucard restriction levels. What level of power you are able to access is determined by the payment and deal being offered at the time, so if your party wants you to use more power they have to give a command and payment for it. You can even add a great story telling part of it where your character got its power by making a deal of its own so it is able to use its full power for defending its only life but ONLY its own life and accessing that power takes an action.
5:01 for a moment I thought you would say "Villainous" and talk about Black Hat because he makes deals frecuently and we can not only see the consecuences bust speculate why he ask for very specific things, but Alastor works too even if the only consecuences of a sould deal can be briefly seen with Husk.
Support classes like bard would be a good way to trade with buffs, and the social stats to pull it off
You could play a djinn. You can basically cast wish for free, but only in response to someone's actual wish, and through those are your only opportunity to gain anything for yourself by perverting them
This entire video reminds me of a character I made as a backup for one of the games I play in, Ingrim Hastur, a Warlock/Bard multiclass who was essentially an Alastor archetype. He was a Reborn with the subclasses of College of Spirits and Undead Patron. His entire "gimmick" was his Spiritual Focus was like a Phylactery, where he'd convince people to "tell him their story" and upon learning of this character's past, he'd place a fragment of their soul into his focus to use as he pleased, be it extra charges of something or refueling his Bardic Inspiration, or whatever it may be. He also made deals with people who were down on their luck. They'd get to tell their story and get a little gold in return, and Ingrim got more souls. His entire motivation for adventuring and joining the party was that the BBEG wanted to essentially wipe out all life in the realm, and to Ingrim, that BBEG was infringing on his right to become a villain in his own way. He wanted the power, the control, to make people trust him through sheer display alone. He hungered for power, stories, souls, and a good joke every now and then.
Armorer works best for that Artificer build, as you can cash in your favor by having the person wear your armor into battle instead of you, letting them take a lethal blow to spare your PC allies.
I play as a dealmaker Warlock in an evil campaign... Trust me... It works so perfectly, but it only works if the DM and other players like the idea of that character xD
This archetype is especially doable at higher levels where characters are more likely to have more influence or power to offer. It can even provide an interesting inter-party background/conflict if people are interested in setting one up beforehand.
Case in point: though the particular character I played was not of this archetype, in a 10th-level holiday oneshot I played this year, my friend and I thought it would be a neat idea a few minutes before the game for my character to be his Warlock patron (albeit unbeknownst to his character).
As it was a oneshot with the connection forged through the shared goal of defeating Santa Claus (freeing my character's lover, Krampus, from subjugation on my part, and seizing the means of production at the North Pole/unionizing his fellow Christmas Elves on his part), the potential of the inter-party patron dynamic wasn't one that we got anywhere near close to exploring. But if I have the option to actually dig into the concept down the line, I'd love to play around with how that sort of dealmaker/benefactor relationship can be expanded upon and the kind of stories that can be told with it.
Much like was stated in going over playing this archetype as an Artificer, while offering raw power or some sort of Warlock-style special abilities is a great way to create this sort of character, there's also cases like Alastor which primarily offer information or assistance that a benefactor desperately needs. Whether this be using influence or resources as a means of providing that to a PC or NPC, there are a lot of forms this can take. Especially, to repeat myself briefly, with the power, resources, and influence characters typically have at higher levels of gameplay.
And if the benefactor DOES get power out of the deal (vis-a-vie playing a Warlock), there's the power imbalance to play around with at the idea that the power can be taken away, leaving them with less power than the other PCs, or that it comes with some hidden clauses and conditions that need to be met with consequences for failing to do so.
But, as stated in the video, this is VERY much not for every table. Aside from clashing with the more "be strong and hit stuff" tables (no shade; those can be fun as hell), even the kind of character/narrative-focused tables this archetype is made for still require a LOT of trust, respect, and above-board boundaries to keep from causing actual harm from the (often) toxic character dynamics this character breeds more often than not.
i onced played an Abberrant mind sorcerer whose magic stemmed from being a vessel of an Archdemon.
towards the end of the game, we found an NPC, and he forged a pact with them - turning them into a warlock.
This is honestly perfect for a future character of mine. He's a hag that had his life saved as a mortal by making a deal with Titania, and now I have an idea of pretty much how I'd play him: a deal maker that focuses in on trying to strengthen his protection for his Fey Court, either through giving boons or a prid pro quo or even making vague but still surface level meaningful deals he could twist ibto causing a Contract breaking.
Got a tip on the roleplaying aspect of the dealmaker. Use the carrot and stick method. There must be a reward for accepting the deal and a punishment for not doing their part after accepting the deal. Make sure the deal gives a relevant short term benefit to your target but ask for a bigger long term benefit for yourself. Timing is important, some circumstances may make the target desperate enough to accept despite a high price. The punishment for not doing part of their deal could be a form of blackmail if the favor you did for them is shady, intimidation can also work if you have the power to back up your treats or if you know where to hurt them. You can also enforce your deals with subtle enchantments or curses.
Bro just transformed my whole next session. My players will be thrilled!
There is also the option of being the "middleman". Instead of killing People to collect Souls for your Warlock Patron, why not give it a twist and instead of having to kill people, for whatever reason, the Patron gives the Warlock the duty to go out and make deals with people that would eventually cost them their souls. The Patron could then bestow upon these poor souls any kind of blessing that would be within the limits of that patron, maybe even Warlock levels if that is something the DM is willing to do. And for being the Patrons favorite and middleman, the Patron bestows some exclusive rewards to the Warlock in question?
Very evil aligned example, but it doesn't have to be souls and can be whatever great idea springs into your head. It doesn't really fill the niche that "your Character" gives the NPCs their Power or blessings, but nobody except the DM and the Warlock have to know that, and it could still fill the niche of a Dealmaker where you outwit the people to trap them into bargains, just that the boons they receive as part of the Deal are borrowed from the Patron.
I love this idea and I may steal it for future use.
I did this and it was great. I did however introduce an aspect of my character, being not a real person, not understanding how context changed the value of things. As an example:
It was a pirate campaign. He could grant the power to breathe under water for 24 hours. Whether he conducted this deal on land while everyone was fine or under water while everyone was drowning, his terms remained the same. To him, he is providing the same service even if to everyone else the demand for the service has changed drastically. Thing is, he always left the payment vague; they only owed him a favor. In this way he could ask for whatever he needed at any moment, whether it was equal to the original service or not. The bound people could say no, but what they didn't know was anyone who died while oweing his patron a favor would immediately get sucked to her domain. So he didn't mind if he never got the favor repaid; he was still serving his patron's needs.
As a fun little note, when someone made a deal with him a chain would appear on their body and they couldn't take it off. The bigger the service rendered the bigger the chain. It ranged from a pinky ring chain for "cleaning this skunk spray off me" to a necklace for "making me the captain" to the body being bound in chains bdsm style for if he brought them back to life.
Don't know if you mentioned it but Bardic inspiration would be perfect to flavour as giving power to someone else
I have played a deal maker before. A Battle Smith Artificer/Eloquence Bard multiclass who is not only an inventor, but also a traveling salesman who sells what he crafts. He was not only good in selling his inventions (the pocket clock in an era before clocks existed), but also in seeing the potential in others, setting up deals to teach others how to craft what he made, and learning ideas for new inventions along the way. He would help people steer away from bad deals and point out scams and forgeries, only to then teach the scammers and forgers how to better twist their skills to be beneficial to others while still making money. Having forgers market their goods more honestly as 'affordable replicas of existing works' for a lower price of the original works. Currently the party is trying to uncover a coup plot, and my character is aiming to use uncovering said plot as a stepping stone to making a deal to have his next invention funded and set up the very first steam engine train between their kingdom and his homeland to the east.
One way to do a deal in terms of mechanics can be a pact, much like in jjk. Maybe it's a short term goal, like using pact of the talisman for helping an ally, or pact of the tome with gift of the protecctors. You can flavor a warlock like the cursed sorcerers and allow use of your spells, or rather spell scrolls. Or a 'until long rest, you are able to cast a single spell for free, so long as it's one i know.'
This happened yesterday at my table! It wasn't planned at all, just a Nat 1 that had quite the Snowball effect. We didn't even really notice until the deal was already too late and the deal was made. The only thing that could have been made at that point was trying to get the most of that deal (to at least allegedly not bite the party in the ass). We all leveled up, but the PC that made the deal was forced into a level of warlock. Which he has to keep as a secret from the party. It's going to be interesting.
I didn't realize this until about the 15 minute mark, but I had a "deal maker" character; a cleric, to boot. The deal was that, for a fee, he would offer his Cure spells to the party, and he charged them as if they were buying the spellcasting services instead of something static, like a potion, which both made it cheaper to the party (10-20 gp per spell used vs 50gp for the potion) and gave me reason to persue avenues for making sure his services were always better than other options.
Reason why he charged them was "Because faith requires money"; the gold would be reinvested into the party in the form of equipment and gear, and half of whatever was left over would get donated to the local church that aligned with his beliefs. He was also very upfront about this reasoning, and did have a way for the ones that he trusted to "opt out" of future payments.
Literally made an entire Warlock subclass based around this, called the Contractor. It has a bunch of fun abilities, and the main thing that you as the player are wanting in these eldritch deals, like Alastor, is the other person’s soul. The more souls you get, the more powerful you are, until you basically become one of the well-known patrons of the world. It actually has this really cool capstone ability where, as an action (although I may modify it to take your entire turn), you can summon all of the people who’ve sold their souls to you to complete some major task, usually to fight for you. If they die, they can respawn back to where they were in a few days or so. But if their soul is destroyed, not only do they die permanently, but you lose that soul. So kind of like the gambling thing, it’s a high risk/high reward system, since you basically get your own small army to fight for you
Also note: You can make a deal as an Artificer to grant a Temproary magic item for a perminant benefit for yourself.
My Druid was a deal-maker. She had a very Will Turner way of going about it. She was always after information and got it in a roundabout way, making deals to expose the information and later playing through the actual deal. Lost every time but got what she wanted every time.
If you think about it giving out Warlock Invocations for deals feels great and makes all of those non eldritch blast ones actually be used and those are powers that could be asked for.
Even if you don't play a deal maker PC or NPC, you can still use this as a DM to improve running just about any warlock patron.
Ya know, if you wanted to play something like this, you could use Grim Hollow, a setting with specific mechanics for granting power to your underlings if you have undertaken a monsterous tranformation
I love running Curse of Strahd with Strahd being the Deal Maker. I ended up making a spin off campaign from a CoS that kind of spiraled into a whole other thing. Lots of fun.
I once played a halfling merchant in Forbidden Lands, he would draw up contracts with NPCs to get them to aid the party, but he always had a little catch in the fine print, which led to the party often getting what we needed for a particular quest but then we would often be promptly chased out of town once the NPCs learned of the fine print
I've played this archetype in a game, but I used a College of Eloquence bard for it. You always have that charmed allure because of Silver Toughn and magic that can buff or debuff based on your "contracts." I had to work with the DM a bit to figure out magic contracts, but a lot of the deals I made with NPCs and players were political ones.
Love your energy.
I host a social interaction themed game where deal making is a facet of the world but only some people can start offers. Making it a facet of the world allows me to adjust for a certain level of balance and always have some control over how a deal plays out even if it's between players, because if they under offer or over sell the verse might do something non-ideal as a side effect. Ironically the player with the power to create deals keeps over giving to try to impress others, it's such a double edged sword, yet he just keeps doing it; which is delicious as a GM.
Thanks a lot for making this, this came at the perfect time for me.
In the game I am currently running I have a deal maker character who the party will meet really soon so I’ve been doing a lot of research on the topic.
Thank you for making a video about this. A good friend of mine created his own tabletop game from scratch, very fun to play, but getting really good gear, skills, spells, etc. always feels like free climbing up a sheer cliff. If he's going easy on you.
I've wanted to get better at trying to make deals in his game so my character can really start getting some good stuff going. This has already helped immensely just watching through once, and after a couple more to solidify everything in my head I should be in a much better position to make things happen pretty quickly. Thank you, sir.
As a DM, I personally find the best way to run a Deal-Maker NPC is to make someone who genuinely delivers on their offers... A reputation that they twist their deals against the deal maker... But not a single story where the giver hasn't delivered exactly what the deal was made for. Even alluding in the runors it was because of the makers getting too greedy with their gifts. Which can give the players the feeling that they can try to outsmart the patient deal-giver who simply waits for the opportunity to present a deal.
Especially if its a deal to provide an easy... Yet dubious quick solution that might bite the player in the butt later, compared to the normal slow but sure answer.
The way this almost perfectly fits my current main character (unintentionally) ... We're only a bit in bt her entire model is "I help you and in return all I ask is that you do me one favour". Haven't played her much so far so idk how it'll play out in future but ... Ive already gotten an assassin (another PC) in my service with a hit on my main enemy because we got her to attack one of my people on sacred ground. Making that deal felt AMAZING (the power in/from it). Isn't what the favour would usually be (which would be their aid in overthrowing the baddies down the line) but we're flexible~ 😌
I have been trying to come up with a good way to play a Deal Maker PC for a long time. I love the idea of giving a Level to an NPC and then "Calling in the contract" to explain your own level up. Thanks for this video!
The Cyberpunk ttrpg has a role just for this, the Fixer, it allows you to be the person who knows people in the game world. Their part of the structure is streetwise, allowing you to find sellers, buyers and jobs. It's hard to play but when you play it right it's amazing
“I’m also not wearing clothes.”
Did not need to know that…
The Dealmaker is my go to archetype every time. Currently im playing a Warlock and the last 3 sessions im locked in a battle of wit againts an ancient forgotten god to make a deal that could destroy the world or save it. Ita been a hell of a time. Discusing the minutes of every detail and trying to gain small consesions while not giving anu room for shananigans in the terms... the yet to agree and sign contract is already 12 pages long
Levels can be done from a gameplay perspective even if you take a exp hit on collection if you have 12 npcs who took exp aka power from you an their cultivating their own power well the debt is eventually due with interest an if they die in the the process its just bigger profits , Its like being a summoner with very stong willed an independent pets.
I suck at art but I have an idea that a soul dealer that tries to use the soul to summon something, no idea probably a god.
One D&D's playtests include a College of Dance subclass for bard!
My next character is going to be a fire-based flow artist to fit into the dancer archetype.
It'd be cool to see what other concepts people come up with for it.
Actual contract magic systems are amazing for this archetype.
Which is a staple of demon magic in many non-D&D systems.
I have no idea how much it exists in D&D, but some tier 5+ magic from e3.5 was able to do those things to some extent.
I love dr facilier and rumple stiltskin, Once upon a time was a show I kinda grew up with.
See also: boons, in Vampire: the Masquerade.
The social systems for boons in Vampire are... kind of "step one, draw a line; step two, draw the rest of the owl" about it as game mechanics, from all the versions of the game I have seen.
But the description of boons in the By Night Studios stuff is the best I've seen yet for putting exactly this kind of deal-making square in the middle of play by making it a key MacGuffin of the setting players must interact with.
Each time you make a deal with a character and give them a level in warlock, your current character level decreases by one, and your maximum character level decreases by one.
The best way to balance a deal maker character, make them feel the transfer of power.
If they die without you breaking your end of the contract (directly killing them/your allies directly killing them/deliberately manipulating them into a situation you know will result in their death - excluding suicide missions where they are fully aware of the odds), you get that power back.
Interesting timing on this video, as the character I'm playing in Shadowrun is a Face, which makes me a deal maker.
I had an idea where the dealmaker could provide class features, but not levels. For example of a person could acquire an eldritch invocation or something like a once per short rest sneak attack. Still powerful, but somewhat situational.
You know, I kinda always wanted to play a deal maker. tiefling artificer who works with clovers and likes to talk about luck and deals. Even play it all off as they are someone who made a bad deal and now has the power they have from said deal. Plus I think to get 4 infusions I only need to get to level 8 in artificer. Then I can move yo sorcerer or wizard to sell the power fantasy.
Worth noting, there are systems that handle this pretty well. Changeling: The Lost has it baked in as a core part of the game, with entire systems around making deals.
I played a Hexblade Warlock dealmaker. The GM actually allowed me to forge pacts with people, but overall I kept the deals to services provided. Which included the party. In combat I would spend spells or cantrips, but I never engaged in melee. They didn't know I could until several sessions in we were doing gladiatorial battles and I wrecked my opponent with sheer melee power. The GM was just as surprised.
Give the player a special skill: Deal-Maker's insight. With a successful insight check, the deal maker learns what their target values and desires, what will temp them the most it what pressure you can use as leverage to manipulate them
You can kinda play this like some form of summoner.
Instead of just putting a bear in front of an enemy, you have 1, 2, or 3 actual people. Sure, they can take and deal more damage, but when they die, they DIE. You have to make them come with you with some sort of reason. You have to feed them, water them, and provide shelter when just travelling.
One way to play a deal-maker without going against the party could be to have a Black Butler dynamic with one of the other PCs-as part of a deal, you are bound to their service (though there are obviously guidelines about what that entails so it’s still fun to play), but both of you know you’re waiting for them to slip up so you can come collect. But, until then, you have to be willing to fight and die for them, should they command it. The rest of the party, however, you’re only bound to help as far as your ward explicitly orders, leaving you room to make side-deals with them in exchange for you extending your hand further.
I think I could do a lot with a spell that just curses the user and a willing target in such a way that if either side doesn't uphold the terms of an agreement, they face magical consequences. Those consequences could be enforced by a warlock patron and since the effect is symmetrical, it justifies the precision and harshness of the enforcement.
One of my favorite characters, a zealot barb/undead warlock sold his soul to some entity to try and save his family that didnt work. Then after years being ignored and unable to die to rejoin his family he tried the Constantine method of trading others souls to "buy" his back. Worked out a thing with the dm where he'd offer a dice to someone, and depending on how they rolled on a d6 determined how bad the monkey paw effect would be. Kept the party in the dark on the specifics, and they loved but never trusted my character lol. Especially when the wizard couldnt figure out exactly what the dice were. I left it up to the party to determine how my character grew morally through them building connections with him personally and it was just an amazing time.
11:53 GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT! XD
pirate constantly betting the odds. genie pack with a invisible familiar to help tilt the odds in our favor. the imp constantly whispers temptations or tries to fools us out of a sure thing.
I think it would be awesome if you could create a guide for playing a Lawful Evil character in a group of neutral/good players
Your section on the power gamer reminded me of my, and a couple friend's, favourite way to make characters for one DM in particular. We make a fun, interesting character. But almost always have layers of power gamed bullshit that we basically never pull out. The DM has a habit of both making things harder/worse the stronger a character or party is, and throwing insane challenges once in a while regardless. At this point its basically an assumed agreement that we will play at a fun and reasonable power level, and that if/when he decides to pull out something bullshit then we are also going to "go all out". This is of course something that has been built up over 10+ years being friends and playing together, but I have used similar tactics in games with new players or dms. Make a character capable of handling almost anything in the game, but play them to the proficiency/power of the party and campaign. Gives you room to adjust without retraining/rerolling.
So essentially Abraham Mahermbaler as played by Brennan Lee Mulligan in the roll 20 one shots. He gifted some levels of warlock
if you are a deal maker you are lending them your power. i’ve never played dnd but it would be kind cool idea.
the more power you give the better odds of success you have and more disadvantage the other person has against your suggestions. the borrower gets a % of your total stat they want. hey maybe if they take to much power they have too resist a kind of mind control role or being tied like husk to you.
I'm about to DM a Pathfinder 2e game for the first time in just a couple of days, and one of my players is playing as an oracle that got their power by making a deal with a devil. Watching this video made me realize that this devil doesn't just have to interact with that one player. All of the players have something he could exploit. I.e.: a mother who lost her child, a poppet that wants to feel loved and alive, and an automaton seeking their origins... this is going to be fun!
I loved Brennan Lee Mulligan's returned Warlock who was his own Patron from the past. I don't remember the name of the campaign tho... It was a pair of Strixhaven one-shots
This reminded me of an idea I had awhile back. May have brought it up here before.
TLDR they were a lord of the Hells stripped of their power, and looking to get it back via deals on the Material. Issue is I am *not* a charismatic person - and i am well aware of this - and I know if I tried to play this character, I'll need to get out of my comfort zone to make it work. ^^; I'm a more passive player than an active one, but the issue being...well, *active.*
The algorithm sent me your way probably because I’ve been trying to write up a devil‘s contract for one of my players. I love your content, and I’ll have to look up more of your stuff!
I don't know how many dm's do this since you didn't mention it, but all the DM's I've played with give artifecer's the albily to turn their infusions into fully real magic items at half the time/cost it would normally take making any downtime after getting money a way to give the whole party magic items without crippling yourself.
Please tell me im not the only person who's using these videos to help create characters for use outside of dnd
Hey! Love this series. I think the archetype outlined in this video comes really close to scratching an itch I have but is just barely not there. The archetype I'm looking to play is the "patron." Not like a warlock. I mean like a... Sponsor. A person who seeks the employ of the party. The guy whose lavish estate the adventurers convenes in. The guy who secures the skyship to the neighboring country where the evil cult is located. The guy who can get you into the incredibly exclusive gala whose host you're trying to stop from being assassinated. The guy who can track down and secure the incredibly rare magic weapon that the fighter's been begging for. And, importantly, the guy who might call in a big favor for all of this continued support. I don't want to play rumpelstiltskin, I want to play Lord Eshteross from CritRole campaign 3. A subtle difference, to be sure, I'm not sure if it would even warrant another video, but it _is_ a difference. I wanna be Bruce Wayne by day, helping loyal employees kick ass by giving them exciting toys, and Batman by night, helping my fellow adventurers kick ass in the most *immediate* sense.
At least in 3.5 you could handle trading for power as level adjustment (or something similar) so that its basically a short term boost that goes away because it replaces your next normal level up
As someone who play city of mist with alastor as my mythis I am very much looking forward to watching this
The idea for this I've had is a warlock who plays the salesman for his patron. He's recruiting and negotiating the deal, the patron supplies the goods. The warlock after all is an agent of his patron--use that.
For the d&d dealmakers, perhaps a homebrew option would be to give your own levels to someone else, perhaps even losing 2 levels for every 1 granted?
Thanks for this awesome video, Alastor is my favorite! 😍Really loved your concepts about artificers, and I actually have an artificer PC in my current 4e campaign! The character is very much good aligned, but I'll be for sure sharing this with the player to see if he's interested.
Demon: the Fallen form World of Darkness is a great system for playing deal makes. (and considering you are playing demons it really needs to be.) You can pass powers to anyone that invokes your celestial name, but there are risk of things going wrong with the people you made a deal with if they ever find out your true name, the power dynamic between you and you the one you made the deal will shift utterly in their favour.
In fact, there's a synonymous term for "Deal Makers" that's used in Tarot Cards!
*_The Magician_*
They always have a good card under their sleeves for when they need them the most. Learned about this kind of stuff thanks to Cyberpunk 2077! ❤
For more context, Misty's Esoterica was where you could talk with a friend who'd help foreshadow events of the game so long as you explored the map and collected Tarot Cards.
Loved the spoiler warning/sponsored segment
This video has now made me want to play/GM for a Spider in Blades in the Dark.
Lilim in _In Nomine_ are built around this concept. More generally, any world with rules for earning and trading favors-including boons in _Vampire: The Masquerade_ and the coins of the John Wick universe-has a built-in way of playing a dealmaker.
My character has been making deals but not evil ones till he found an injured god while he had the only thing that can heal them which has excelled his transformation into a patron class entity
You give them magic item's, extra spells per day, more spells known. Or, more attunement slots, specifically for a magic item given by the deal maker. That, may or may not, let him track, spy on or otherwise gain information from the dealee.
Alastor and Bill? You have my attention!
As a DM I did make a creature who made deals to the power of a wish spell and not just anyone. A level was also available for creatures. One player made 3 deals, 1 for level, 1 for tons and tons of gold and third, and another one for lots of magic items. He could pay with people's souls. It didn't matter how, as long as he got them. He had to pay with more souls to keep his. The levels could go over 20, only up to 22 or so but levels were covered by 100 souls. The deals could be cosmic knowledge. The player agreed to the deals but wasn't specific. When he came up short and tried to destroy the devil I made, the tons of gold coins were delivered and each was a cursed magic item. It was also delivered to the character's stomach and crushed him. It was a fun day.
I'm going to need some followup videos here, you've caught my interest!
A fun way to play with this off the top of my head would be with a DM who treats dice as a resource, or currency
Something bad happens to you, maybe as a result of an occasion where the players needed to make a deal for help, and as a result the DM takes a die away from the affected parties
Then all it takes is one productive secret discussion, and suddenly your friendly tabletop car salesman has a neat surprise to bust out the next time the going gets tough
Combine with creative use of dice jails for presentation, and you could even mess around with them not knowing which one they're bargaining for until the deal is struck
If you are in pathfinder 1e, being a deal maker is absolutely possible through the Witch class. Many things from the Witch class are through hexes, both helpful and hurtful. Since you have a patron, you are a deal maker, but your power is from another entity that works through you.
Faustian power bargains are hard to use in game, barring warlocks. That being said, a favor for a favor, or an object for an object is generally a good way to play a dealer. Bear in mind Dealers will always keep demand in mind, and go where their talents are wanted.
Devious Dealers will often exploit the desire of a person to get something for free by providing the option of a wager instead of the Deal, but they are gonna make it hard for them with rules that are built to work against the party. There is always a chance to win, because they want enough hope to trick you into picking that option, but as you said "The house always wins." So good luck with that.