Star Trek: Voyager Finale: A Disappointing Endgame
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- Опубліковано 4 сер 2019
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We can be thankful for one thing though: this series didn’t go full discovery.
It's rather telling that Voyager and enterprise look like bloody masterpiece's when compared to the dumpster fire that was STD
Probably because Voyager was a masterpiece.
Yeah, it is important that it didn't do that. It's just a disappointment based on potential. We LOVE seeing potential fulfilled... .and for damned good reasons.
Is that like saying "Never go full-retard"? Never go full Discovery? lol
Never go FULL Discovery!
Voyager was Tom Paris sitting in his cell dreaming about getting out of his prison and all his wonderful adventures.
And Tom Paris is actually Cadet Nick Locarno.
Or a duplicate crew believing they were the original...oh.
@@KRAFTWERK2K6 or maybe he was a changeling all along.
@@deanspanos8210 they did that once or twice during their run
OR- Most of Voyager was Tom "Parisalamander" sunning himself on a beach remembering the last vestiges of his Humanity before his lizard brain took over and he went off to make sweet and sticky salamander love with his former salamander captain, and current smoking-hot salamander love interest, resulting in of course, more salamander babies!!!
SALAMANDER!!!
God I hated that episode!!! LOL!
It's tragic, because a more plausible justification for changing history was staring the writers right in the face; the Borg. All they had to do was show the Borg on the brink of conquering the Federation in the future and make the destruction of the transwarp hub the objective of Admiral Janeway's mission. Getting Voyager back home could have been a happy side effect of saving the Federation.
That's exactly what I was thinking! They were the recurring villians of this series, why not have them destroy everything in the future, so it makes sense for Janeway to go back?!
Yeah. You said it better, but that is largely what I said in my post .
it was a great show
Could have been preventing the type of future that one of the alternate Riker's came from. The one where the Borg had nearly taken over the entire galaxy.
Or maybe not even on the brink, just have a Borg-Federation War that took place offscreen during Voyager’s trip home that claimed, I dunno, thousands of worlds and trillions of lives across the galaxy because of how they were able to spread via the Corridor. Entire species wound up assimilated into the Collective, such as, I dunno, the Betazoids and Vulcans; species that we knew of and loved as fans wound up claimed by the Borg threat before the Federation finally beat the Borg back and wiped them out.
So the Future isn’t edgy 90s grimdark, but it is the most bittersweet dark chocolate one can imagine. Admiral Janeway discovers that the Borg’s hub was used as their primary staging point of their invasion upon completion and so she returns to help Voyager destroy the hub while her younger counterpart figures out a way to get the crew home early having learned of the losses Voyager would suffer during her trip home.
So Young Janeway is focused on her crew, Old Janeway is focused on the Greater Good, and that’s where their conflict lies.
After basically running the entire series on the premise that we MUST NOT alter time to get home.
truth
What can we say? Captain Braxton was right about Janeway. She always was something of an emotional crazy Ivan when it came to command decisions. Seven even complained about that from time to time, which was hilarious.
well whimin ...
she tells you what to do
you do it exactly
she doesn't speak with you anymore because she "expected" you to do it differently
@@KelsonArwhi Braxton did nothing wrong.
I kinda wanted Captain Janeway to announce over the intercom to the entire crew that they were finally home, and then seeing different crew member reactions. Plus, moments on earth seeing family and loved ones again.
Yeah, but that would've required effort and the vaguest notion of actually, honest to god giving a shit, which as we all know was Voyager's Kryptonite.
Yeah it just ended and didn't give a decent epilogue. It was a shit episode really, and the producers just wanted to wrap up the show and move on with enterprise ans look at how that turned out.
Something that was also missing from first contact with Starfleet thanks to Barclay - panning shot across ship.
I don’t know if an extended LotR ending with hugging and smiling would have been what I wanted. They probably left some room open for what happens at the moment they reach earth, in case they either append a season or start a spinoff. Don’t know. Don’t care much either.
Exactly it just ended after 7 seasons we can't have 7 minutes of resolution.
I thought the Doctor had some of the BEST character growth of any character I've seen.
lolwut
Are you serious - the doc was one of the most annoying characters - that stupid episode where he supposedly had a mental breakdown was the worst - he was just as annoying as Neelix.
'Renaissance man' was his tour-de-force episode.
the doc had far too many episodes. some of them were good, others not so much, I could barely watch them, skipping 70% because it bored me to tears. and neelix had one of the best archs through the entire series. bingewatch it on Netflix and you can see it. Some lost storylines with Ichap. And I must admit - 7's story with chakotey feels so forced...*facepalm! But the worst part for me is to see a desillusioned "to hell with regulations - I have the bigger gun" admiral Janeway.....that was uncalled for and simply massively out of character, completely unpleasant
"Sieging fortress ovum" has become my go-to line for making my wife laugh. Convinced her to watch that one episode where he teaches 7 how to date because it's just hilariously awesome. I think it is the best episode in the series.
Also: 7 and the doc, not 7 and Chakotay, that was just awful. They just make cute platitudes and play kissy face. The doc loved her person and character.
I think “Year of Hell” is the best VGR story but it’s sad that it wasn’t a season long arch.
Because they didn't fix the ship at the end of the episode... until they did. That was the big problem with Voyager episode to episode. They keep running into resource-rich areas of the Delta Quadrant so you never really go the sense they were resource-starved. The most we get in that premise is people having to eat Neelix's food.
I'd say the Equinox is what we should have gotten as a Star Trek show with this kind of premise, but it's a monkey's paw wish because that's what the first season of ST:D was.
Year of Hell would never have worked as a season. We all wanted it but ultimately if we had watched an entire season like that only for them to find the magical reset button we would all have been left really pissed at VGR and it probably would have been scrapped shortly after, never making it to 7 seasons.
I always found the skipping over of the "Year of Hell" to be one of the show's greatest failures. You want to skip over boring stuff, but VOY skipped over meaningful drama. The main crew was never in danger, every meaningful change was reset by episode-end... the show had its interesting moments, but as a series it was sadly lacking.
@@Burningrobes So don't reset the season.
Matt42MSG exactly, continue Into the next season with the consequences of the previous season. The only Trek that has ever dealt with consequences has been DS9.
Captain Kirk accepted that Edith Keeler had to die to preserve the world. Janeway doesn't hold a candle to him.
He largely did that because of Spock. If Spock hadn't been there to remind him, he would have stopped her crossing the road.
@@luqas99 Once Spock informed Kirk that Keeler had to die, he knew what he had to do.
No sir no
In the episode 'Fractured', Chakote actually talks Janeway out of doing the very thing that she does in 'Endgame'.
One of my favourite episodes. So well done, not knowing not only which timeline one was going to encounter, but how they would adapt
Yeah. frequent viewers know this ending was not a cop-out or lazy, but that Janeway had tons of multi-season experience with time travel and learned her lessons well enough to finally turn time travel to her advantage. Your misogyny blinds you, Voyager haters.
Deft Squirrel Do you mean “Shattered”?
@BaronVonEvil she was in the delta quadrant where no federation is so she not violated any law.
Is that the 1 with the different 'time zones'? I was thinking of such an episode, as Dave was speaking. I think that the creators just don't understand the full impact of the cannon.
You hit the nail on the head. Just finished the series last night for the first time. I am a die hard DS9 fan. It kills me what they didn’t do with voyager. I love this cast. So many great characters. I was certain they would get home mid season and it al felt wrong and they had to go back or something of the sort. Some twist like that. But to end drifting to earth! To not finish Paris arc of turning himself around. To not see Kim promoted or Seven walking on earth. They left a lot on the table. I still love the show but they missed an opportunity to be much better.
B'Elanna's daughter was the one who made it possible for Janeway to get the time machine from the Klingons. if she went back any further back then she did , she might never be born , creating a paradox that would ruin her entire plan . so Janeway was careful in not going back to before she was born.
Yes and no. The timing only worked out as it did of the child being born as they come through because Cpt Janeway took the ship out of the area first before the secondary plan was devised. Even if we think it would have been easier to do the original plan there is no guarantee events do not transpire that cause the baby to not be born alive.
Rob Janeway would need a Klingon close to the high council to get her a meeting with Korath, hence why it has to be Miral. Miral would be the only one with any understanding and in a position to get Janeway there.
Korath has also used the Deflector before to Kidnap an ancestor of Picard in 2371, so it would have long established that he’s the Klingon to go to get time travel done. Probably also who K’mtar went to to go back and save Worf.
Her going back and changing the timeline creates a paradox period. Her actions in the future were based on what originally happened in the timeline, and she knew what she knew because she'd experienced that timeline. By going back, Janeway erased that timeline, meaning that the whole sequence of events that led to her going back in time never happened. As long as the version of time travel they're using allows the timeline to continue to exist in spite of the fact that the person who went back in time to create it doesn't ever exist to go back in time, then it works, but the whole thing is a paradox. Changing the past creates a paradox pretty much by definition. The only way that even sort of gets out of it is if the person who goes back doesn't manage to actually change the past but is just part of it the way that they always had been, and the events are the same that they've always been (i.e. there never was a version of the timeline where they hadn't shown up from the future), since then the future that sent them back in time is still intact, but then you have a predestination paradox, so you still have a paradox. The only kind of time travel that avoids that sort of problem is traveling into the future, because then you're not actually changing past events, and you can't possibly affect the events that led to you traveling through time in the first place. Traveling to the past is paradox-central.
@@kalessin4942 then really you are not changing time but swuapping diferent outcomes that brings the theory of the multi universe.every outcome happens so is a universe swap when going to the past from your prespective is all prespective of the user. Sounds to me quantum mechanics nothing happens if there is no observer but it does when there is one
Nitpicking Nerd, you're way smarter than this. It doesn't matter how she goes back in time, it will change the timeline and create a paradox no matter what.
I just remember that she did this mainly because her closest friend (Tuvok) could be saved from his mental disease if she could get the crew home early. I felt in her mind, saving Tuvok was the most important to her & if it ruined her career, she was willing to do that for him. Sometimes people make poor choices based on the best information they have and their application of that information with their feelings.
The reality is that even a Captain loves some people more than others, due to their personal daily interaction. Those lives lost cut deeper.
If Kim has risen above the age of Esign, it's an alternate reality that will not last.
Tom can get promoted, demoted, and promoted again. All while Kim stays and Ensign.
I've got a good one for you ... why don't the 29th century busy bodies in the Starship Relativity (or others of that era) arrest Janeway and stop her tampering with the timeline?
Hahaha, yes! All the time tampering stopped Relativity from being built and nobody is stopping time shifts anymore :)
Exactly!! And I bet Ransom is somewhere in Temporal Prison going "I told you so, I told you so; that woman is a menace!" And out of the show, but within greater canon; what about 31st century Daniels and his people? Guess they only choose to get involved when it is the TCW, and not just violating the Accords. I love nerdom
Yeah that group was stupid to form to begin with.
Because then we'd have another Braxton story line which was painful enough the first time around, if they were going to do anything they'd stop the Admiral from going back, which makes me think S31 might have been involved here. No think about it, Voyager comes back with loads of future tech that they can pick apart and incorporate into current ships and they also get a look at the mobile emitter, a piece of 31st century tech, so what do you do? Load up a ship full of holograms (Andy Dick *shutter* wanna avoid that all together) and boom you send them up against the warring aliens, might have helped with the Dominion war just send wave after wave of whiney holograms, no one dies and they keep going and all the mighty Starfleet would have to do is hide the emitter so it doesn't get smashed.
Like my comment!
I totally agree with you on that ending, it always felt so rushed to me. It really needed 10-15 minutes of showing the crew reuniting with family and friends to feel complete. It was a good finale, but left so much to be desired.
I swear the only reason for the Chakotay and 7of9 relationship was someone looked at their foreheads and decided they are a pair.
Yeah definely! I stile cringe at the pair 25 years later 😰
During the 20th anniversary of Voyager, Robert Beltran said the pairing was actually done by Brannon Braga, one of the producers who was dating Jeri Ryan. Beltran had said to Ryan that Braga would be jealous if the show had paired their characters Chakotay and Seven together. Ryan then tells Braga about the conversation she had with Beltran and the pairing was written into the show. Beltran said that after the pairing became official, Braga wrote a note to Beltran that said "Who's jealous?"
Voyager is still my top Star Trek show.
After watching the entire series the one thing missing is finality and closure for the characters. A journey like this needs a final episode to show what happens after they return. Being welcomed back officially, maybe some cool interactions with the Enterprise crew or DS9, and maybe some recounting and questions about what they did, how they held themselves together through such an ordeal, and reunifications with family and friends. Tom's reinstatement, Tuvacs family reunion, telling people about Neelix, Kes, 7 and the Doc becoming integral, the Maqui members honored for their exemplary service. There's soooo much they could have done. 1 or 2 less filler episodes.
And Kate sadly believes that TOS was misogynist
The reason she did this is why Mario Lopez apologized because they need to work. Kate's current show is winding down and she will soon be out of work so she virtue signaled Hollyweird so they will hire her again. Remember as an aging white she already is very limited in what roles Hollyweird will give her so she did what she did for a reason and I firmly believe that.
She never watched Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea
@Adeptus Astartes Precisely. I have watched her since the 1980's and she has changed in the last 4 years but I don't believe she has changed on the inside. If you are not "woke" in Hollyweird then you will not get work. Woke = work out there or else you can die in a ditch. :(
"Believe me, it's better to be dead than to live alone in the body of a woman."
- Janice Lester, in TOS: Turnabout Intruder
@BadFremen That quote has no bearing about this or have you not been paying attention to all of the men who have to virtue signal from Hollyweird lately? Like Pokemon.
At least they didn't pull a Game of Thrones. ^_^
I just finished watching it on Netflix last night. Your video is so on point. I also feel the same way. I was disappointed when they didn't show they step foot on earth reuniting with their families. The ending felt so abrupt. I didn't feel sense of closure unlike TNG or DS9 ending. They could add one more episode showing an aftermath of some sort. But I think it's probably because of time or budget constraint. I read somewhere that the actor of Harry Kim is disappointed because they didn't step on earth and having a reunion with his family because that's what Kim always talk about.
The sad thing is, this finale could have been so much better if they had changed just a few things:
1. Make it in 3 parts, so they could tell a long story, and maybe establish someone other than the Borg, or at least make a more intense and dramatic conclusion out of it and had plenty of time for the emotional payoff of the series.
2. Actually follow through on emotional payoff. If they didn't have enough script for full episodes and had to fill it with partly irrelevant and eventually-erased future stuff, then they had plenty of time to do that, but they didn't. So maybe it doesn't even need to be three episodes, but just give us a satisfying end to all of that, please.
3. Really raise the stakes on how important it is Janeway gets everyone back there sooner. Maybe lots of crew members die, maybe there's almost no one left of the main crew save Janeway and a couple of others, maybe they just barely managed to get the ship back to the Alpha Quadrant in one piece, maybe some big disaster that would have happened and crippled Voyager severely not long after Future Janeway arrived back in time. If something that traumatic happened, it would make sense for her to go back to the biggest catastrophe that she can remember.
4. That whole Chakotay/Seven thing out of nowhere? Yeah, scratch that. Have Janeway and Chakotay revisit that romance that they never let fully develop because of their Captain and First Officer relationship now that they might just get home and have they life they want sooner than they planned. And let Seven and the Doctor, which they had been building up for some time now, actually be a thing please? You know, actually give relationships that had been built in the show satisfying conclusions.
5. GIVE HARRY KIM A DAMN PROMOTION OR SOMETHING FOR CHRIST'S SAKE
Those are the most important things, and it would have drastically improved the finale.
I just remembered: I never actually saw the final episodes, so I read the Endgame novel which was published. And I remember thinking the exact same thing: Why would you go back in time and screw a pretty neat future for so many people, including good friends, just to save three close friends of yours? This has struck me as a bit OOC for Janeway.
What I always wondered-after the conclusion of VOY-was what happened with the futuristic enhancements future-Janeway made to Voyager. The ship returned to the Alpha Quadrant equipped with “armor” & “trans-phasic torpedoes”. How did those enhancements effect technology for the Federation?
I believe some of the novels have addressed this and even managed to make the quantum slipstream drive work once they had a full set of Starfleet engineers to work on it. It led to a major shift in the balance of power that lead the Romulans and others to form an alliance against the Federation.
Carl Rood see Star Trek online, starfleet is now a massive force that can move at incredible speed
What about that tech itself getting early voyager changed history and maybe that tech vanished
It was confiscated by temporal investigations. Who secretly studied it and then they became the temporal agents of the future
There's trilogy of books where transphasic Torpeodes make an entry.
09:15 I have the same beef with Avengers Endgame. After 5 years all of the people that were snapped out of existence being brought back would have been incredibly disruptive as the remaining 50% would've reorganised society and their own lives - and done with the grieving process etc.
I see your your argument. Here is my rebuttal, the last jedi sucked!
I agree with your assessment of the series as a whole. They started with two interesting premises and mostly ignored both throughout the show. They were stranded, so supplies shouldn't be readily available and repairs near impossible. Instead, they seemed to have infinite supplies of shuttlecraft. Being in a situation where a large portion of the crew is hostile to the Starfleet officers, should have been explored as something other than a holodeck episode and one character who turned out to be an enemy spy.
Still better than any episode of Discovery!
Amen
@@KRAFTWERK2K6 And, despite its problems, so is Enterprise.
Well, discovery isnt star trek to begin with, so, yeah, of course its better lol.
@@marywilcox3102 Enterprise what and awful serie
@@leonciohernandez It's better than Discovery.
IM SHOCKED! That was the most memorable ending of a tv show I’ve ever experienced. I’m 38. I remember watching it’s original showing. Perhaps that is because it was because I was a kid.
I'm close to the same age, and I thought that it was terrible when I saw it when it originally aired. It was certainly memorable, but the story wasn't good. It felt like they ruined the future just to get the crew home earlier to avoid some problems that were created just for that episode.
@@kalessin4942 I enjoyed the final episode a lot, BUT i have to say it was very disappointing that we didn't get to see any of the voyager crew back on earth. After seven 7 seasons kind of felt cheated...
I'm so happy when I hear someone else say that the Chakotay x Seven romance was out of left field and forced. I had one or two folks I know try to tell me it wasn't, or that there were 'signs', but I've just never seen it, especially after we spend full seasons on the EMH x Seven crush, or Harry x Seven.
at least they did give it an ending unlike some other sci-fi series even if it was a rush job🤔👍😁👍😞😞🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸
Are you talking about Stargate Universe?
@@DivineEternalOne yes and others🤔🤔😞😞😞😞🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸
Firefly:(
I totally agree with all the points you made. I really liked Voyager but the final scene was so anti climatic I felt like the ending I was expecting had been stolen. A simple ten minute epilogue with Barclay meeting the crew and references to the character’s relations in the Alpha quadrant would have been immensely satisfying.
Always made me laugh that they broke their own canon and the Temporal Enforcement Agency or whatever they were called didn't turn up and stop future Janeway or yank her back into future like they did with their rouge agent in the Earth two parter earlier in the series.
But having said that, they at least did wrap up the story, unlike soooooo many other series that aired around that time who were cancelled on cliffhangers.
How did they break it? The future wasn't against time travel, just time travel that would prevent their own existence. Since they didn't show up, this was obviously the "correct" timeline.
Ryan Stallard I guess that's one way to look at it, but that's a huge 20+ year causality paradox though, eek.
I actually really liked _Voyager,_ as log as I can watch on Netflix or something and skip the boring episodes... and it probably had my favorite cast overall.
I generally liked the finale, forgiving some of the nonsensical time travel shenanigans... one thing I don’t like is the weird part at the very end where they say they’re going back to the Delta Quadrant, then someone end up inside the Borg Sphere, but then destroy it and make it to the Alpha Quadrant anyway... and then it’s just over.
If sfdebris' portrayal of Janeway is correct. Then it makes perfect sense.
@walter white SFDebris does have all his Star Trek (and other) videos on his website, www.sfdebris.com.
I always thought that the main goal of Janeway's return was to eliminate the Borg, with advanced technology before it was invented, to get finally rid of them before they get too strong.
And sure, she could have chosen other times in the series, but she choosed this point in time to have the best chances of success.
Logical. I approve.
Voyager is my ultimate favorite of the franchise. I loved Endgame, but I have to say I really wish they would have had more on their welcome home. How did starfleet deal with 7of9, what about the now outdated EMH and his future mobile emitter. How did Chakotay and those they were sent to bring back treated back at Starfleet. I love the episode, but it needed more of them back home. That was after all the point of their voyage.
Someone mentioned that it was a Janeway story as opposed to a Voyager story. I got emotional when the ship finally arrived at the Sol system.
I agree with your sentiments in the last minute (and everything before that) ... Janeway was taunted with the prospect of getting home early MANY times over the course of the show, but she always passed because it would have meant compromising her Starfleet integrity. ALSO, she frequently showed more emotion about the prospect of getting home than she ever shows in the finale, the writers missed the point totally.
Voyager was my favorite series, but I totally agree with you 100% the writing should have been better with the premise having such potential.
Well Voyager was quite literally given plot armor around the ship. It was a nice easter egg for those looking. I wish the ending could have only been longer to see what happens on earth after they arrive in this new time line. It was biggest hype build since season 1 what happens for voyagers return. Now the borg likely know of these future weapons and could be more adapted. We will never know, as no other star strek series really picked up on it. Overall for a rushed ending on a time crunch I still give it a 8 out 10.
I have to agree, i loved voyager in my teenage years and remember how disappointing it was to just see it end, all they needed was a good 15 minutes of showing exactly what you said.
Tom shaking his dads hand, harry hugging his mother and father etc.
I regret not finding your channel sooner. This is great content!
Having re-watched all sorts of Star Trek during the pandemic, I got to see the end of Voyager again and hated that we only see her cruising towards Earth with a welcoming party. I felt like it bothered me more during the re-watch and not when I saw it the first time when the show ended.
Hey Dave, are you planning to review the finales from all the Star Trek series? Would love to see your opinion on them all :)
Interesting analysis, but I don’t really agree.
You’ve gotta remember it’s a TV show and it’s more satisfying having it character driven.
I actually think the OG Script to End game was Janeway actually returning to the first Episode and having to come to grips with the future not being changed.
This was an excellent Critique. Voyager was by far my favourite series, but you raise some excellent points (some of which I have thought myself). Well done!!!
Enterprises 3rd season is what all of voyager should have been.
Still a satisfying finale, even after being revisited several times over the years. There are powerful moments in the story, and anytime Janeway is contending with the Borg Queen, the stakes can't be higher. At the end when Voyager appears in front of the fleet was superb.
#1 cause of death on voyager.. exploding consoles. it's like those things are packed full of C4
Also i lvoed how risky Year of Hell was. the ship was acutal bieng tonr apart..then they hit the mighty reset button.
C4 and rocks
That was arguably my favorite episode of Voyager (aside from the reset). If they actually made a full season out of it, which is about a year iirc, it would of been awesome to watch.
Always enjoyed Endgame, but would change just one thing with the final scene... With Earth in the viewscreen, Janeway orders, “Set a course...” then, in the corner of her eye, and for the very first time, she notices Tuvok imperceptibly struggling at Tactical; the visible onset of his developing neurological condition.
Turning back, she continues, “... for Vulcan. Maximum warp. Family first. Home can wait.” Bridge crew smile in agreement.
No time to spare, Voyager roguishly peels away from the bemused fleet. Nacelles rise and lock, and the ship zips away on one final mission.
She needed to balance saving lives versus the huge amount of knowledge gathered..
Exactly. Remember the Doctor's holoemitter?
IIRC, Kate Mulgrew mentioned prior to season 7 that she wanted Voyager to return to Earth somewhere halfway through season 7. This because she was aware that although they all wanted to return to Earth, it wouldn't be a warm welcome for them all. Starfleet/the Federation considered The Maquis to be terrorrists and thus Chakotay and the others would be arrested (in an episode of VGR Torres mentions that a group of Maquis who escaped the Jem Hadar and were rescued by starfleet, were immediately thrown in prison). Likewise, Tom Paris was at the time of Voyager's departure in prison and never sat out his punishment. And Janeway, Mulgrew was fully aware that Janeway had committed several violations of Starfleet regulations throughout the series.
Woukd've made for a far better ending, but would lack the positive feeling that we associate with Star Trek.
But truth be told, I never watched this finale. I had given up on the series somewhere through season 6, made some attempts during season 7 and wanted to watch at least the final episode, but I forgot and only tuned in halfway. And then again when the show reached the same point on another channel.
But in many ways I do think it's the perfect finale for this series. A lot doesn't make sense, so best to not think things through, Janeway is always right (even when she's blatantly wrong), and it never is as good as it could've and should've been. TNG-light, at best.
As Star Trek finalés go, this is one of the better ones, IMO (not that I'm enamored of any of them). Had Janeway gone back too far, The Federation wouldn't have had an influence on the Delta Quadrant. Now they do.
Great video! Very well presented! You make some excellent points!
I'll agree, the potential was there. It was set up in the first episode, as a situation in which two groups of people who HATE each other for valid reasons, have to work together to escape an untenable situation. Drama aplenty was to be had, with desperate people at each others throats.
But that was abandoned pretty much entirely by episode 3. And, as you say, TNG Lite ensued.
if I remember correctly it was a rushed ending as well because the studio canceled it last minute.
I agree with all your points. But I still love this episode to death. But that is probably nostalgia. Watching voyager each week is some of my earliest memories. I remember watching endgame with my dad and brothers. Rooting for the crew and cheering when they escaped the conduit to earth. It wasn’t too much longer that we were able to continue that experience with enterprise beginning. Star Trek was one of the few things that could get our entire family together without any butting heads. A real feat with 3 brothers and a very traditionaly inclined father.
I'm with you.
The reason Janeway didn't go further back in time is because she had to go back to the point in time when they were unknowingly flying past a structure that could have got them home quicker, with the knowledge and tech necessary to access it.
This time I disagree with you. I love this particular episode.
Ditto.
I also enjoyed Endgame,...apart from the Chakoty/Seven of Nine 'relationship' which was just thrown in there without any kinda previous build-up.
The Cap Janeway/Admiral Janeway interactions were well done & the score & effects were great.
I still prefer Dark Frontier as my fave Borg-centric episode/s but Endgame is still one I've watched loads times.
I loved it
The 29th century Federation time cops don't stop Admiral Janeway.....because she's giving advance technology to the Federation.
The "Janeway Factor". I have a theory her time travel tampering led to the creation of "time cops" and thus couldn't be reset/altered.
I hate time travel.
Plus after Kate goes full NPC cant stand watching it ever again.
I am glad it was not dark like Battle Star. Thevworld is dark enough I dont want ST that way.
That's because she got her mind damaged while working on "Orange is the new Black" >_> nothing good ever came from that.
Snowflake
Going back to season 1 mean't Seven would never be rescued...
Battlestar Galatica? If you meant that one it ends well, they helped make Humans on Earth advance and develop. Despite everything that happened, in the end, they did something good and I never saw it as Dark, I saw it as hope, even when we see our Humans are about to make the same mistakes, we hear "All of this has happened before", "Question remains, does this all have to happen again?", "This time I bet no". Which is a hopeful belief of our own future.
Grow the fuck up
Voyager was my fav Star Trek series TBH.
You are not honest aren't you? :)
Usualy when someone write honestly or to be honest they are far from being honest.
Massive fan love your work!
After watching the video I agree with what you say, but I will say at least Voyager as a TV show didn't making watching the whole series pointless by ruining the ending.
A good example of this, is TV shows like like game of thrones, Dexter, and many more.
The point of Voyager was getting them home... they did that. While it may be the minimum they at least can say they did have an ending that the fans at least enjoyed.
I loved Voyager's finale.. That's just me, though. : )
With a few exceptions - including the domestication of the Borg (they really should always be the enemy we just cannot beat., and if we do beat them , not very well...) I did enjoy Voyager. The Finale could have been better for sure - maybe even of kept them in the Delta quadrant. They must of been like - how can we get Voyager home in 1.5 hours? Extremely selfish act on Janeways part - not really in her character.
Over time, between TNG and Voyager, the Borg were de-fanged and neutered, weren't they.
A shame. They started off as such great villians.
Janeway always favored Tuvok over everyone and everything else. Past Janeway doesn't even consider listening to future Janeway until Tuvok's health is brought up.
Janeway's disregard for consequences is why Starfleet promoted her to a desk job during the events of Star Trek: Nemesis.
Desk jobs in that context are actually demotions.
@@sojoNIN That's the joke.
I really loved voyager it was my favourite of the star trek shows
Me too.. Learned to like DS9 more now
Probably my favorite also. It had my favorite characters. I loved them all except for Kes really. So many good episodes
Absolutely. I agree. The original series was brilliant too though.
The absolutely BEST ending to any Star Trek series was "ALL GOOD THINGS" which was the finale of ST:TNG.
Sorry. I disagree. DS9's was definitely the best.
It's actually amazing how coherent All Good Things... actually is. Remember that it was a seventh season episode which meant that it was also during the writing and production of Generations. Also add that it was a time travel bubble universe plot (Anti time is Q's test universe to see if Picard will get the riddle) where the entire premise was Picard was in the past, present, and future and it sounded like the recipe for confusion.
IMO, the TNG lite tone of Voyager should have been the tone of the first couple of seasons since that is what we are most familiar with. In season 3 we see them starting to face some serious issues that eventually cause season 4 to be a darker season, and season 5 to be a year of hell type of season. but in season 6 they start to pull through, a darkest before dawn type of them. In season 7 the dawn comes when they finally are able to find a way home.
Dave: "It's impossible to calculate just how many lives would've been dramatically altered and how historical events would've worked out very differently across the Federation."
Annorax: "Hold my beer."
This is FAR from my favorite finale, but I have a couple of problems with the analysis:
-I believe it was briefly implied in the future that the Borg are getting pretty powerful. I know it wasn't Janeway's (stated) intention, but destroying the Borg was good in the long term and may have saved the Federation..
-It wouldn't have taken seven years for Voyager to get to their position under their own power. Between Kes throwing the ship 10 years closer to home, Q doing something similar, and Voyager's brief attempts to use Slipstream and Transwarp, I believe that by season 7 they were already saying that it would take 30 years to get home (as opposed to the 70 years from where they started) due to all the jumps.
-Voyager almost ran out of supplies several times during the series. If they focused only on getting to the position they were in during season 7, they wouldn't have lasted long enough to get there.
Exactly. Though there were more than one hub. Maybe they passed one on the way without knowing.
@@EstrellaViajeViajeroThe galaxy is huge they could pass 500 lightyears from one and never know.
Still waiting for your thoughts on Babylon 5 (unless I missed it).
ill second that. babylon 5 is the best scifi show ever.
It's one of the best shows ever, period. Only some parts of DS9, Battlestar Galactica and The Expanse are on a similar level. And Bab5 even had a satisfying ending which is apparently hard to achieve in Sci Fi.
Not to mention the best Captain, John Sheridan. People often argue over Kirk vs Picard vs Sisko vs Janeway vs....actually I never seen anybody mention Archer....but anyways John Sheridan puts them all to shame. Picard captured and interrogated by the Cardassians vs Sheridan by Earth Corp? That's like a vacation to Risa for Picard compared to Sheridan in terms of episode quality. Though I did enjoy Jellico rightfully putting the Enterprise crew and Riker in their place, put on a damn uniform Troi!
@@garrettdark5668 You mean John "Nuke em" Sheridan? ;)
@@paristeta5483 - As John would say "You're damn right". Never start a fight, but always finish it. =D
I love Voyager and the series finale. But this video is on point.
Timeless is one of my favorite episodes too.
It felt rushed. It seems like they expected the series would last a little longer, but as it was coming to an end they realized they wrote themselves into a corner. So they sloppily tied up everything and had them jump straight to the alpha quadrant.
Nope 6-7 seasons is pretty normal for star trek the show just ran it's course.
It entire show should have been “the year of hell”
Well, infact, the other timeline technically DID happen, because Star Trek goes with the whole "Splitted Timelines" thing!
So technically the Timeline where 7of9 died is the original, unchanged Timeline and the one from Endgame we got was just a changed one that splitted itself appart from the original one, .... yea, sounds confusing, i know. Soooo, yea, they pretty much didnt show us the next 20 years of the original Voyager crew and instead gave us an alternate ending in a sepperat timeline, ... 2009 style.
BUT HEY!
I guess that technically means, if they get bored of Star Trek Picard, they could film and show us the actual, original ending of Voyager with the now REAL aged Actors 👀
@Tesla-Effect Yeeeam you right, i guess to figure out the right, unchanged timeline is a impossible thing at this point, i mean, where to start?! A Voyage home?! Idk.
I thought the whole point was that the old Janeway had become much more cynical and self serving which is what lead to the disagreement with the younger Janeway when she tries to carry out her plan.
Thanks a harsh review that’s right on the money.
When I was a kid watching it I felt dissatisfied with the end of it all.
I also wondered why those time cop guys didn’t do anything to stop her.
Like you I also wanted to see them reunite with their families after hearing about them all these years.
Time travel is always the cheapest way to finalize story lines with a kind of twist. And always, the audience feels discontented with such a fraud.
Rick Berman was involved in the script, so there you go.
John Garrett Braga was the problem hijacking whole script for Jeri Ryan who he was screwing at the time Berman was working on DS9 then
@@Dancestar1981 That is correct. I also believe the fact Ryan was shagging the producer was reason why Kate Mulgrew despised the actress on the set.
Berman kept Star Trek in sync with Roddenberry's vision, and did much more positive for ST than he did negative.
You missed a couple of key aspects here. Admiral Janeway didn't just do this for the sake of a couple of friends and a bunch of unnamed crew members. She also did it because her past self would have discovered the hub and forgone using it on principle. She felt guilt and wanted to make amends for what she decided was a bad decision in retrospect. Also, it wouldn't have been 23 years in the Delta Quadrant. They spent a good chunk of that in the unexplored portions of the Beta Quadrant, well beyond the sprawl of the Klingon and Romulan Empires. Well, most of it was unexplored by Starfleet except for that one Luddite planet that Pike and co. mushroomed their way to so ridiculously in that STD episode. It seriously came off as such a petty throw of shade by that show to basically say, "Oh look we can instantly zip to an area of the Beta Quadrant that may as well be the Delta and come right back just as easily". They might as well have placed the damned planet in Delta or Gamma just to really drive the screws home that the ridiculous Discovery went far further than it should have given its timeframe.
Thank goodness you mentioned the relationship between Chakotay and Seven coming out of nowhere! I mean who thought that was a good idea?
Adam Simpson Meanwhile Seven and Janeway chemistry was off the charts.
@TaiwanFormosa Personally, I always thought Seven had fantastic chemistry with The Doctor. I also thought they had a shared understanding that an ordinary human could never match. But, rewatching the series, I was surprised at how shippable Janeway and Seven were as well. The writers obviously intended it to be a mother-daughter or sisterly dynamic, but it could have been taken in a romantic direction. Instead both of them were inexplicably stuck pining over Chakotay, who had all the personal charisma of a 2x4. Bah.
STAR TREK : VOYAGER
had 3 different endings
#1:
THE TV ENDING
#2:
THE ENDING WHERE
USS VOYAGER
STAYS IN THE
DELTA QUADRANT
( and a BORG CIVIL WAR )
#3:
THE ENDING WHERE
A NEW CARETAKER
SENDS THEM HOME
BUT TO THE WRONG TIME
( that would've brought back
the USS RELATIVITY )
Source?
The final episode to me is one of the best Star Trek episodes.
Are you planning to do videos on the final episodes of TNG and DS9 too?
No. She couldnt have gone back that far. Its too risky at that point. Most of her crew isnt even formed yet. But the caretakers array had already killed crew when being pulled into the delta quadrant. So using it to go home could have killed more. She didnt know her initial crew as well, so there was no desire to save them. She was concerned about her family, not her crew.
The series got tiring using the Borg as a crutch to solve everything basically turning them into a Scoobie doo villain rather than the worst enemy the Federation ever encountered. Basically, they needed to get the ship home right now so gave it future god mode hacks and borg transwarp tunnels. Seeing the future Armour and torpedoes was awesome on first viewing but when you think about it, it sucked.
Also, don't forget the poor federation ships that have started heading out towards them in one of the episodes they are told some starships we're coming to intercept them, I wonder how far they got. Did the writers even remember?
Actually I think it was great as it proved SFDebris "Janeway is crazy/has PTSD" theory. I mean look at what Janeway did, she ignored the temporal prime directive, erased God knows how many innocent lives that Voyager saved in the 27 years it took to get home, murdered the Borg queen and crippled (and possibly committed genocide) on the Borg, and gave the Federation super tech 27 years before they should have it which right after the Dominion War is gonna cause chaos on an epic scale, and for what? Because SHE FELT GUILTY about getting Voyager stranded in the Delta quadrant!
This pretty much proves Janeway had PTSD for the entire run AND it perfectly explains why Janeway was an Admiral above Picard. After all they couldn't declare she was mental and have her locked up right after she was cheered by the populace as a hero AND gave them all that tech but they sure as fuck wouldn't want her loose with a starship so a nice promotion and a desk job away from where she could do any real damage? Would be the most logical choice.
And frankly if you watch the entire show while subscribing to the Janeway has PTSD theory? It makes a hell of a lot more sense. Her irrational behavior, mood swings, depression, giving weapons of mass destruction to the Borg, it all makes sense if you accept that Janeway was in over her head and losing half her crew on her first mission made her unhinged.
terrific analysis!
They should have planned the ending a long time before getting there. This feels like they made it up the last month and just went with it.
Even Nelix leaving early didn't feel right. He showed no desire to return to his people and then somehow there is a bunch of them this far away??
If they wanted chakotay and 7 to hook up.. They could have built that up over the whole final season. At least show some growth .
I thought I was the only one who thought about this kind of stuff lmao. Janeway always came across as very selfish for a ship Capitan, and heavy handed when she was trying to control how even non crew members thought and felt to align with her goals.
I must disagree. Even though I saw less than half of the Voyager episodes. I thought the series finale was outstanding.
I've since gone back and Watts again. She's definitely less obnoxious than I originally remember, especially considering a lot of her crew were insurrectionist spies😅
Yep she ran a pirate ship
Your talking about 2 different shows. Voyager and then the 7 of 9 show that replaced it in the 4th season.
You know, cus Jeri Ryan was banging the writer/producer so she got a lot of episodes.
Marion Morrison at least she did pretty good with it. I liked her better than Kes. I don't really get attached to who the actors are in real life
Marion Morrison I think it was so much better without 7 of 9
Maybe she chose that point in time because the Borg transwarp corridor didn’t exist until that point. I mean they couldn’t have used it if it wasn’t built yet.
I rewatched this episode just around 3 hours before you uploaded the video
The whole entire show of Voyager was disappointing, not terrible but not great either, which is a shame cause there was massive potential.
after DS 9 i was done with trek except for an occasional movie
Still a lot better than Discovery and better than Enterprise. It can always be worse and as time goes on, I only get more confirmation of that saying.
@@jay-gi9dk well, aren't you special? ... and yet, here you are
I found it hit or miss. Some shows were great (for various reasons) and others stunk the joint out
The show would have made more sense if Seven and that boy borg drone came up with a theory to create a stable wormhole to bring Voyager home or maybe did a full circle with the first episode. The borg could have been a subplot. Or Kes could have been the subplot. Anything would have worked, except for what they had. I thought seasons 4, 6 and 7 were the best seasons and I enjoyed them a lot. The finale didn't do the show justice.
Unless, you consider reinterpretation of janeways behaviour in regards to seven of nine, in which it becomes quite apparent that she was deeply in love with seven.
This is evidence in endgame when I older self is telling her all the people that dies and her younger self doesn't care until she hears that choakotay and seven got married and that seven died.
Her younger selves demeanor changes completely.
Not to mention, that technically 7 isn't Federation, but borg so lays in a very small grey area, for her.
Prrecisely. Janeway was really abnoxious sometimes when it came to follow the protocols of Starfleet. So much that she did threaten the crew many times. But That was ment to be that. And now, suddenly, she is throwing the rules book out the window. I mean I do like Endgame.... Janeway goes and makes a choise of feelings instead of holding her head cool like she normally does.
Janeway's moral compass was always all over the place. Most of the time she was a slavish devotee of the prime directive, but she also forgot that it existed whenever the plot required it.
Wich was the same with Picard as well. :-) Only Sisko did what he really had to do, despite prime directiv. he didnt give a damn. lol
You bring up a a lot of good points, but I think you overlooked one aspect - Admiral Janeway ignoring the temporal prime directive makes complete sense in this future where shes become cynical and adopting an ends justify the means philosophy. The episode could have easily been fixed if the future part was a lot darker.
Imagine a future where the Borg have managed to mostly assimilate the Delta quadrant and have started expanding into other systems. The federation is collapsing and invasion is imminent. Lets say only 1/3 of the voyager crew made it back and half of the main cast was killed off or assimilated in the incoming war. 7 gets re-assimilated and the crew are forced to kill her. By combing through the wreckage of a destroyed cube the federation learns of the existence of the transwarp hub and in a moment of desperation, Admiral Janeway travels back in time to the exact moment the Voyager was passing it in the Delta quadrant at the end of the season. It would justify the travel to that exact day as it would be the ONLY opportunity they had to destroy the hub as its so deep in the Delta quadrant. The episode could have year of hell vibes emphasising just how dire things are.
I like this alternate suggestion as it keeps most of the original plot.