Why the CIS almost never used Umbaran Fighters
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- Опубліковано 7 тра 2024
- / eckhartsladder
Although the seemed pretty effective, the CIS almost never used Umbaran starfighters, nor the other weapons of their planetary forces like the Geonosian Sonic blaster. We'll discuss all that and more on today's Star Wars video
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The thing to note about the Umbara is that it joined later into the war and they were attacked fairly quickly after their session so there would not have been much time to produce any extra equipment. that’s just what I gathered from the first episode of the arc and the show does not go into it.
Right, it joins and Republic immediately target them as more advanced tech member. And I dont remember if they got conquered or repelled the attack, however either way they wouldnt have survived unscathed and rebuilding production to start creating technology surpluss for billions of soldiers in the galaxy was probably years ahead so clone wars likely ended too soon for them to get widespread. Same with Geonosis, it got invaded twice. And wasnt really that much stronger than just battledroids
Not only that but Umbara was part of the Republic until a certain Rodian both framed and assassinated the Umbarian Senator for ''no reason'' which was against their culture. They love to assassinate and plot against each other but 1: Don't get caught, 2: Have a reason for it, 3: Don't involve parties that aren't involved to begin with. She broke all 3 and that was angered them so they left the Republic late into the war and joined the Umbara.
Secession
@@davidh4384 They held their own against the Empire
the perspective of the cis isnt important at all and doesnt matter
One thing everyone forgets when discussing this type of subject is logistics. Any military is only as good as it's logistics train. It makes sense for the CIS to focus primarily on a limited number of designs for starfighters/vehicles so that the number of required parts variations is kept as narrow as possible.
It makes more sense for planets to have their own home-grown vehicles/tech as they're more easily able to distribute components within their own system. That becomes a lot more difficult when you then need to distribute parts across the galaxy.
Also causes problems if Umbara then is captured by the Republic. Suddenly all those Umbaran fighters are going to start having maintenance problems because they're no longer able to get replacement components.
Exactly, it's not just a matter of manufacturing the ships. You also have to be able to supply, maintain, and repair the ships in theaters across the galaxy. That's why standardization is so important and why the Empire mass produces Tie-fighters while the Rebel Alliance can field "superior" fighter craft despite being a much smaller entity.
Umbara is also fairly seperated from the rest of CIS space, beiing relatively enclosed by republic worlds. Tell me something about a logistical nightmare.
Also other logistics problems such as bottle necks in the production rate of critical parts that could impede production of other equipment, or designs that use rare materials, or designs that only work in certain environments, I would assume sonic weapons don't work in space, and probably need to be modified for different atmospheric compositions and pressures
I would've loved to see multiple CIS factions united in a space/air battle. Imagine a quarran dreadnought and a few Trade Federation Frigates come out of hyperspace, and we get collicoid Droid Tri-Fighters, geonosian fighters modified for space combat, and umbarran fighters pouring out of the hangar bays. The frigates and dreadnought engage the capital ships to drain their shields and interceptors that come near them, the tri-fighters take on enemy fighters, the geonosian fighters buzzing the capital ships to draw the attention point-defense weapons, and the umbarran fighters launch a barrage of those plasma missiles to trash the capital ships hull. A glorious battle
The Umbaran's had such cool technology!
It’s important to note that the Umbaran’s were not the trusting type. The last thing they would want is another group who knows the ins and outs of their technology.
Fun fact: the umbaran starfighter’s design is inspired by a cross-section of an _Apatosaurus_ vertebrae
That's really neat i never knew about that
I fear what the CIS could have been had the war continued. You said the CIS didn’t have a lot of time to innovate their military, towards the end of the war we see a bit of this with the droid tri-fighters and HMP gunship, which both wrecked clone forces, it’s terrifying to think what the CIS could have been had the war lasted 5 years rather than 2.5 years
It's been mentioned a few times, but the CIS from a military standpoint would have won the war if Palpatine wasn't manipulating things behind the scenes.
Of course, the war would probably have never started if Palpatine wasn't manipulating things behind the scenes either.
The thing is the h m p is kind of inferior to the republic gun ship Yeah , it's terrifying against infantry , but it isn't nearly As versatile And while yes they were rolling out new equipment so was the republic the trifighter has its foil in the vwing
@@andrewadamski8547 although it’s hard to say as the debate on how much the Sith in general influenced things, I would say a war of some kind would have happened anyways, maybe at a later date and not to the scale of the Clone Wars, but some war would have occurred.
Assuming Palpatine dies of a heart attack as Geonosis is starting, I assume then that the CIS could have had a heavier hand in their dealings, but I’m not sure if they would have won the war. Grievous was a menace to all societies and CIS leaders like Poggle and Trench were key assets in the war, however the majority of separatist military leaders seem to be scientists and businessmen that were promoted through their connections rather than military skill. The separatist council were against the republic firstly, and against each other secondly. They bickered and fought with each other to the point Dooku found them more annoying and more of a hinderance than a hell to the war. Had it not been for Sidious, the CIS could have been split into factions that would have crippled the war effort. So I don’t know if the war would have been a total victory for the CIS, but I’ll admit Sidious did help the Republic more than the Separatists
@@spartanx9293 yes but that’s the role of a gunship, to lay waste to an army, which they did quite often. The LAAT was superior in many ways but also lacked shielding that the HMP had. I’d be interested in a fight between the two happening at some point
@@andrewadamski8547By the later part of the war the CIS was on the back foot, just before Order 66 was triggered. Palpatine must have been nerfing them enough so that when Dooku was killed they didn't have the power to do another big push.
That way after he enacted his plan, the remains of the non battledroid CIS would be easy for the Republic _without Jedi help_ to defeat.
It does raise the question that if Anakin and or Windu had killed Palpatine but the Republic and CIS couldn't come to a peace agreement (because of "look we were both being played") how would the war have unfolded?
The CIS now has a free hand, but the GAR is in a better position and the CIS has just recently lost its best "hero units."
It could get even nastier, very very "nastier."
A battle droid using a sonic gun would be fun to watch.
And probably be too destabilizing for Palpatine's plans, since imagine endless waves if B1's armed with sonic weapons that Jedi can't block
@@weldonwin most likely.
Umbra might have simply not wanted their technological edge to be _spread to other Worlds._
The Umbarian forces had a qualitative edge due to its technology, if the CIS in its entirety had it as well, then the Umbarians become weaker by comparison.
And then assuming a post CIS victory they will have to deal with neighbours who now have the same tech as they do, and won't be as deterred as pre Clone Wars Worlds were with possibly invading or just causing trouble.
There's also the logistics of their very complex and probably quite expensive technology and how to mass manufacture it at scale, plus how complicated it was to operate
I would like to see a theory video on Anakin Skywalker vs Pong Krell during the Battle of Umbara, if that hasn’t happened already on this channel
I don't think it's in question for most...
@@cyberspectre8675 Anakin wins, I know lol
@@cyberspectre8675 its not necessarily about who wins to me (anakin would rip krell apart) but anakins thoughts and reaction to his men being so callously used and abused. even as vader the stormtroopers loved him, so the men he was even closer with being treated that way...would be an interesting story
I’m sitting by a railroad at 11 at night and watching your video as trains go by it’s such a vibe
#AskEck
Where did all the Republic’s vehicles come from? Like the kaminoans obviously made the clones but what about all the Acclamators and Gunships and Tanks we saw at geonosis? If they were made somewhere else, how did no one ever notice the massive military buildup?
They were built by Kuat and Rothana Heavy Engineering (owned by Kuat). I believe Rothana was based on a secret planet, explaining how no one noticed the military buildup. And at least in Legends, the clones and vehicles were all paid for by Damask Holdings, an investment company run by Palpatine’s sith master.
There is a video on this but I don’t remember if Eck made it or Corey did.
A heap of manufacturing plants where used across corprate assests in systems and planets empire owned or otherwise, turns out haveing a company sponser helps.
Do you think the Clone Wars had a secondary objective of hollowing out any potential organized resistance? By making the corporations and sector defense fleets fight like this, Palpatine is ensuring that when he finally converts the Republic to the the Empire, there are no meaningful militarized powers left with the resources to field significant resistance. Had he collapsed the Republic without the Clone Wars or had he done it sooner during the Clone Wars, you'd still have sizable Corporate and Sector forces who could have resisted.
#AskEck I was recently rewatching Rebels when I got to an episode where one of the rebel ships was caught in a tractor beam while trying to escape the empire. Hera had to swing around and take out the tractor beam so the ship could get away. Why couldn't the rebel ship have just fired on the tractor beam itself? Assuming there is some technology preventing the ship from using its weapons, why wasn't it used more often? Why shoot at a moving target that shoots back, when you could just lock it in place and prevent it from shooting and then shooting at it?
Thanks Eck.
:D
Maybe it didn’t have guns that were in the right spot to shoot the projector. Or maybe the guns on a ship cannot move when the ship I being pulled in (this could be explained by the force of the tractor beam). As for why it wasn’t used more: idk, I’ll leave that to Eck
My understanding is that a Tractor beam can make you essentially lose control of your vehicle, to at least a major degree where I can understand why a ship may be unable to accurately fire at the tractor beam projector. Worth noting that Tractor beams are big, expensive and energy intensive (for a military application, certainly, as you are having to fight against a ship that is being actively controlled) so I don't imagine that they could be used in every situation.
Tractor beams are localized energy shields that trap enemy ships, it's likely you can't shoot into or out of one
@@arrun5125Tractor beams also have jamming field with them so it's likely the ship's targetting systems were failling
The fact the Clone Wars only lasted 3 years was one of the biggest mistake of the prequels.
Cool video, I can’t wait for more
@EckhartsLadder have you tried reading the fanfic Sublight Drive?
It really fits in nicely with this video. It's about a CIS navy officer and has a detailed look at the politics and logistics of the war from the CIS perspective.
I still feel like the Umbarans could have taken over the galaxy if they could produce unlimited fighters and their other technologies.
Umbara was part of the Republic until their senator was assassinated, and then they switched sides. Immediately after they switched sides, the Republic began an invasion. I don't think it was a matter of scale, I think it was a matter of the Umbarans didn't really have time to actually give the Confederacy anything before their homeworld came under attack. The same concept applied with Geonosis. There isn't any information on how long Umbara was apart of the Confederacy before it was attacked.
#AskEck In your video about particularly deadly weapons you talked about ion weapons being able to disintegrate beings. What about ion pulses such as the ones in the battle of Naboo from the Battlefront 2 campaign and in the battle of Malastare in the Clone Wars, did it not affect the troopers because of their armor or what? What about ionized ships, does it affect anyone inside? What about the Malevolence? What about ion grenades?(are those even cannon?)
Hope you're doing well Eck!
#AskEck What do we know of the development of the Venator? Was it ready at the outset of the Clone Wars or did it enter service sometime after it began? And what did the Republic Navy have before the Venator (and by extension, the Victory) came into service that could stand up to Seperatist capital ships?
Lore ship Versus video request:
Resurgent vs. Starhawk
Tie Striker vs. New Republic V-Wing
World Devastator vs. Vong Worldship
Tie Silencer vs. X-83 Twintail
Tie Silencer vs. Tie Defender (legends version)
Keldabe vs. ISD II
MC90 vs. Nebula class star destroyer
Nebula class vs. Pellaeon class
Majestic class vs. Bothan Assault Cruiser
EAWX: FOTR’s Mandator II portrayal vs. Subjugator
Praetor vs. Subjugator
EAWX: TR’s Mediator portrayal vs. Resurgent
Starhawk vs. Bulwark MK III
Gargantua/Aratech 520 Battle Platform vs. A6 Juggernaut
Add World Devastator vs. Borg Cube to that list, if you don't mind! I'd love to see all of these in videos.
I would guess that before the Venator, all the GAR had was the Acclimator.
Need to take this to the patron page.
I hope in the future we get more unique alien ships like Umbaran Fighters soon. As a kid one of my favorite parts of the arc was seeing something truly new like when you first see the CIS ships on the prequels
i always wondered why the cis never used the umbaran equiptment
Did any Republic Worlds make extensive use of battledriods?
Do you have a bad batch finale episode on the way? I know there's the 50 minute live video but I would really appreciate a shorter video review similar to how you reviewed individual episodes for the bad batch finale.
I think the Hutt's are just useful to have on board and not worth the fight. They have hundreds of years of institutional infrastructure across Hutt space that would be difficult to rebuild from the ground up with the Empire - the Empire for the most part was building off of worlds which already had Republic/CIS infrastructure which could be levied to subdue the worlds. I feel like a campaign with the Hutts is just not something you could afford that early into the lifespan of the Empire by any means. Plus, the Hutt's arent exactly causing problems for the empire and are just keeping more worlds under the thumb of some form of control which is ultimately in the interest of the Empire.
4:11 HAHAHA...Canadian. Love when your accent slips through from time to time.
"It going slow, I'm doing completely fine..."
OH SHIT, is Ecks gonna drop some Boeing QA information? HE IS COMPLETELY FINE, not suicidal, feeling healthy...
Also Umbaran technology IS used for special CIS units like the Magnaguard starfighters
"it's effectively controlled by both Palpatine of course ultimately and his lackeys but also the heads of major corporations and cartels within the Galaxy" (so also palpatine and his lackeys, lol)
A question I’ve had since Mando season 3 is how does Mandalorian naming work? Does it go first name, last name like with Tar and Pre Visla or last name, first name like with Din Grogu?
They just made that up on the spot because Grogu Djarin sounded terrible
For a vid idea why didn’t the resistance allies respond to there distress calls during the first order pursuit through hyperspace of there fleet
Umbara also secede later since it was a republic member world until the murder of their senator?
Factions compared idea sci fi insect swarm. Such as Tyranids, arachnids, Zerg, rachni, terminids.
id say take the tyranids out of that, theyd just instantly obliterate and assymilate the arachnids, zerg, rachni, and terminids
Umbara is my best faction.
#AskEck Why wasn’t Umbara involved, or atleast mentioned against the Yuuzhan Vong?
#askeck I want a comparison between the Arquitens and the Carrack light cruisers
#AskEck What sorts of relationships did the Galactic Republic (both Old and New) have with races from outside areas under its control? How did it vary from the external policies of the Empire?
To be fair for a large amount of time the umbarans weren't on their side
Honestly the OT was more of an American Revolution type war.
Empire vs CIS both are at full strength who would win?
I'm sorry, did that clone trooper at the end kill Cad Bane and a Magna Guard only to get merc'd by a B2 variant? Bro.
I can imagine if they made Hybrid starfighters based on their tech.
what is the game in the first clip?
Can you imagine battle droids with Sonic blasters just imagine B2 with Sonic blaster on underarms similar to the modular Cannon system or be ones arms with Sonic blasters or how about VX commando droids something to see in the cartoons or in the video games think about a squad of b1s armed with Sonic blasters ❤❤❤❤❤
What is the game being played here 7:47
#AskAck What is your opinion on the more fantasy side of Star Wars? Everyone always says Star Wars is sci-fi, but in my opinion it’s just as much fantasy. My name is pronounced yar-nik (yar as in pirate arrr) since you had trouble pronouncing it last time
#askeck how did the new republic feel about the ships in the rebellion with insane illegal mods? Was the ghost or falcon neutered hard or was a blind eye turned?
That's dealt with in Legends a few different times, can't remember the exact books. It's upgraded on several occasions, other times they make a stink. Not neutered outside of maybe a book or two.
You play RaW?
#Askeck How did the CIS quickly and swiftly make a massive fleet?
56 seconds ago? Huh.
7:15 what game is thats ???
Star Wars: Empire at War, I think.
there is more to this you aren't mentioning, and its called logistics and ergonomics. these weapons and technologies would have been designed with their origan species in mind so almost everything would need to be redesigned for droid/human/every other species' ease of use. you then need to retool factories, reprogram droids/retrain militias and be able to produce and ship enough spare parts or replacements to maintain it all. the republic had not seen large scale conflict in over a thousand years (this includes the CIS sections) so both the infrastructure and intellectual practices would have been sorely lacking. this would be a core reason why the CIS used corporate droids and the Republic used human clones (humans are the most populus species in star wars) because all the logistics infrastructure and design was already in place. yes the clone wars was orchestrated by old palps on an inexperienced galaxy so some logic can be thrown out the window, but he still needed to make it believable enough to convince the public, and critically the jedi, that this was a real war that was an existential threat and couldn't be solved outside violence.
Hello!
There is a simple anwser, not droid piloted.
Wow you've got as many bots as the CIS, Eck.
Well for both of those examples, the number one reason was because they were both xenophobic. They joined the CIS but were not interested in sharing that technology. Umbara sounds like it succeeded and was invaded like a week later. They likely didn’t have enough time to build up their forces
The clone wars was a better representation of the Vietnam War, than the OT ever was
endor????
Only in instances. The republic and cis were equally matched.
Honestly despite Lucas idea of Vietnam I see the OT as the American Revolution.
Prequel apologists are crazy
@paulsteinhauser434 there are elements of the american revolution, but the OT most closely resembles WWII. The empire is the nazis, Palpatine is space hitler, the people being genocides are the jedi, the industrial might of the empire resembles Germany, how Palpatine rose to power through a large scale war etc. That's one of my favorite things about star wars is how it parallels so many real life events, but still has stark differences. It draws elements from many places and tells a story and builds a universe. It is the definition of a great fiction story. It has real life elements, it crafts good characters, universe, and story, and tells a lot of truth about morality and human nature.
Hey man, I realize I am a nobody and you by no means need to take what I have to say to heart. But I really enjoyed your content for years. Your lore videos were among my favorite things on UA-cam. But as with many Star Wars channels in the last few years, the tone has become increasingly angry. I get that you and a lot of folks dislike the direction of the franchise, and that's valid. But man as a consumer of yours and other Star Wars channels' content, the constant anger gets exhausting. If you dislike the new stuff can we get more new legends lore videos or stuff you do like? I don't care if something is canon, I just like lore. This isn't a response to this video specifically. This video is great, I am happily listening to it.
Sorry if this all just sounds selfish.
No need to put 'reality' in quotes. We all know that all of this really happened a long time ago in a galaxy far, far, away
Easily one of the CIS videos out there
Didn’t they get targeted right away for being an “advanced tech society “
Answer: That would require Filoni and TCW writers to be Actually good at their damn jobs when it comes to writing for Star Wars! 🤣🤣🤣
i think with umbuaran tech specifically the cis would not wanted to have to devote so much processing power into allowing their droids to pilot such a complicated fighters. the typical battle droid was not intelligent enough to handle a complicated fighter like that to begin with so unless they wanted to build an entire new class of droid in order to pilot that fighter or redesign the fighter to operate without a pilot their was no way to incorporate them into the military. i mean the entire cis military doctrine is based on overwhelming numbers of cheap and disposable units. and umburan tech just did not fit into that doctrine as it was extremely complicated to use and likely very very expensive. adopting the tech at a very small scale may have been possible but adopting it to the point it saw regular use all across the galaxy would conflict entirely with their military doctirn and mess up their entire strategy.
the umbarrans used umbarran fighters. not the cis. umbarran weaponry wasnt off of umbara
First
Disney having ads almost ruins my annual clone wars watching 🫤