Correction: it wasn't the Valar that decided Gandalf's fate to return as Gandalf the White, it was Eru Iluvatar himself. The Valar initially sent Gandalf, as the Grey, but that was the extent of their intervention. The rest falls directly on Eru Iluvatar as evidenced by the massive power shift between Gandalf the Grey and the White. Eru Iluvatar allowed Gandalf to use more of his power than he was ever allowed as the Grey and even gave him additional powers in order to overcome the forces of Sauron and be able to accomplish his mission. As far as the power dynamic between Gandalf and the Witch King, both as the Grey and the White, Gandalf always had the upper hand in the regard. After all the Witch King was a mere mortal, not a Maia. However being an Istari Gandalf didn't have access to all of his Maia power. As the Grey he only had a fraction of it, and while as the White he had all of it and than some, his mission didn't change. That mission, of the Istari, was to be an advisor and guide, not a warrior. Moreover his mandate was to use as little of his power as was necessary and only use it when absolutely necessary. Thus Gandalf could have easily defeated the Witch King but that would have meant failing in his mission, in the same way that Saruman failed it, being a fellow Istari. Therefore Gandalf chose the side of caution and giving the Witch King the respect he deserved, not necessarily because Gandalf couldn't handle the Witch King but rather because he was always a role model for others: the free peoples. Even the mightiest of them(like say Elrond, Cirdan or Aragorn) are nowhere near Gandalf's power level(even as the Grey) thus if Gandalf himself feared the Witch King than all the free peoples will too. If Gandalf was to be cocky and brash than maybe the likes of Elrond and Aragorn wouldn't have given the Witch King the respect he deserved and acted arrogantly against him, which could very well have led to their own downfall and with that all but guaranteed Sauron's victory. Gandalf the White had significantly more power of course, to the point where he absolutely could rival Sauron, which was never true for Gandalf the Grey nor for Olorin for that matter as Sauron was the strongest of all the Maia until Eru Iluvatar's intervention. However again if Gandalf slew the Witch King, which he absolutely could as he was no man but a Maia, as you correctly said, than again he would have failed his mission, becoming the warrior or leader, just as Sauron became, rather than remain the advisor and guide to enable others to defeat Sauron and remain free from all divine(Valar and Maiar) influences, which was the whole reason the Istari came to be in the first place.
All the videos that come out with these ai voices are effortless crap. They just ask, probably chatgpt, to write an essay on a subject then post it with an ai voice. Hence all of the inaccuracies
Gandalf and the Witch-King both wore Rings of Power, but Gandalf was a Maia. There is no comparison. Gandalf didn't just defeat the Witch-Dude on Weathertop, he beat all 9 of the Nazgul at once. Yes, he was forced to withdraw facing 9-1 odds, but if anyone feared the other it was the other way around. The movies get this completely wrong. Typically, these angelic beings never felt fear, because "death" was not known to them. Only dark creatures knew fear, because they know everyone around them is trying to kill them and assume their power, and because death, even for a wring-wraith, has terrible consequences. Being cast into the "Outer Darkness" is far worse than merely waiting in the "Halls of Mados" to be resurrected. The average movie-goer is oblivious to reality, so they accept this ludicrous "inferiority complex" from Gandalf.
I dunno about that Maia feat thing. Olorin (Gandalf) didn't want to come to Middle Earth because he feared Sauron and didn't think he was strong enough to fight him.
And that was Gandalf the Grey 😂 He then slew a Balrog solo, Got a major power up way before The Battle of the Pelennor Fields. The movies had to make the 9 more terrifying esp the witch-king, As for fearing Saron when leaving for Middle Earth, maybe.. they were both fellow maia. The Witch-king. he was a mortal bound to the Ring.. and never stood a chance..
@@jeffrobagman2834 Perhaps, but this is a completely different argument. Sauron was also a Maia, and perhaps the strongest. Gandalf clearly also feared the balrog (another Maia) and for good reason. But we're talking about the Witch-King only, and he was NOT of the Ainur.
Mostly agree. But you all are forgetting Sauron gave the WK a massive power upgrade right b4 Pelenor fields. He was in that moment at the height of his power, which is why he told Gandalf “this is my hour.” With the rest of the 9 and the whole army at his back, Gandalf would not have been able to hold the gate for very long. But his confrontation at the gate took just long enough for fate to intervene, forcing the WK to withdraw. Gandalf was victorious in that moment because fate was on his side.
@@christiansmith7358 Can't argue that in that moment, the WK/Nazgul/Orc army had far more combined power than Gandalf & Co. My argument only applies to a 1 v 1 encounter.
If you remove the distraction of leading an army to war, protecting Gondor, dealing with Denethor and worrying about the vertically challenged, he could have nuked the nine simultaneously
I never thought of it as Gandalf being afraid. He was or would obviously feel fear in that moment. As the old saying goes, Bravery is not the absence of fear, it is defined by your actions when you're afraid. and a seasoned, welled fought, read, lived, travelled guy like Gandalf would be way too smart to not be somewhat afraid. Gandalf being of good heart would be afraid for the mortals around him. empathy would even dictate that he would have "fear". But he was not frozen in fear and afraid and avoiding the witch king.
I always thought that if Gandalf defeated the Balrog as Gandalf the Grey, there was no way a measly Ringwraith could stop Gandalf the White. In the book, the Ringwraiths flee when he rides over Pelennor Field to save Faramir. And then when the City Gate is destroyed and they are Face to Face because all others had fled, the Witch King flees to fight Rohan as they charge the Field at dawn. My lone criticism of the Movie was showing Gandalf knocked down and his staff broken by the Witch King. That was very different than the Book. The movie did show flames on the sword of the Witch King, which was cool.
Yes, Gandalf the White could defeat the Witch King, but he chose not to destroy the man but left his fate to die from Eowyn and Merry fulfilling the prophecy and most importantly crushing the pride which the Witch King held for his sacrifice turning to evil. To be crushed by a Maiar akin to Sauron was not a disgrace but to fall to a woman and a hobbit was humbling and disgrace. All his prideful history crushed.
Firstly, Gandalf faced down at least 7 of the 9. He may have fled, but he wasn't beaten. Secondly And remember this was Gandalf the Grey, not White. He was more powerful, so at that stage, he was second in power only to Sauron. He says that himself later. So though the Witchking is powerful, he isn't akin to Gandalfs power, especially as the White . Did Gandalf fear the Witchking? Yes, and no, he respected his power, but he feared Sauron more.
Gandalf used the word 'Flee' and later in the story 'Fly' it didn't mean he said surrender or give up, he said to 'get out and do what you must to bring this quest to and end'.
I don't believe, as an angel, Gandalf, a true servant of the gods, would be terrified of the Witch King. I think his deep concern for the welfare of others above himself in terms of safety from the corrupting powers of the Nazgul is sometimes mistaken for his fear towards the Witch King. Plus, Gandalf is way more powerful than the Witch King, but he doesn't show it because he is humble and unassuming, while the Witch King would appear so much more powerful than he really is because, as a servant of evil, he is overbearing, prideful, and a show-off.
Gandalf didn't fear the Witch King. Their encounter on Weathertop it took all of the nine to drive Gandalf off. Gandalf stood alone against the Witch King at the gates of Minas Tirith.
The witch king shouldn't have been defeated so easily. It did not look right from my perspective... especially because no magic seemed to be involved. With such a great witch you would have assumed more fight more smoke and shadow a lot more unusual magic. Yet the defeat had the opposite effect.
The Istari, maiar we know as Gandalf/Saruman/Radaghast are forbidden their divine forms and majority of their "magical/mystical" power, even as THE WHITE Gandalf would be like 1% the full potency of "Olòrin" as his original self.
Have you even read the books? Gandalf did not fear the witch king. In fact he fought off all nine them at weathertop. And he was not unstoppable. The non feed from Glorfindel. You definitely have not read the books
As is often the case with Tolkien, the power levels just don't follow any sort of logic, a maiar fleeing before an enhanced mortal, Sauron getting his finger lopped off by a mortal, Huan besting Sauron, Ungoliant being the most powerful being other than Eru fleeing from balrogs, a massive balrog/maiar being beaten by gandalf, Morgoth suffering a wounded foot from Fingolfin the ebb and flow of power levels is just frustrating and detracts greatly from the enjoyment of the fiction
Okay so .... has never made any sense to me. Especially Gandalf THE WHITE, a Maia... who is accutely aware of his status and power. A being that on presentation even as Gandalf the Grey who battled a BALROG refusing to give ground in Moria and finishing on the side of that mountain. A BALROG. So, the WITCH KING, formerly a human man of great power, is consumed by Sauron's power and enslaved by the ring is STILL a WRAITH. I get that the Witch King was far beyond the stature of the other ring wraiths and that his powers in his former life were greatly magnified because of the ring and Sauron's will. But, nothing to me makes sense that of all creatures and beings in middle earth GANDALF THE WHITE... exhibited a demeanor of fearful subjection to the Witch-King. I mean.... The White Counsel did battle (in peter jackson film only) with All of the wraiths and the Necromancer/Sauron. ..... It is frustrating. Saruman smote him, Elrond Smote him... and then Galadriel sent ALL of them back to darkness temporarily. I get Gandalf being "concerned" and respectful of the danger that he posed to his personal well being and ability... but I think portraying Gandalf as if he was stricken with a paralyzing fear... didnt sit well with me.
Remember, all of the Istari were sent to leand and inspire the mortal races in the battle against Sauron, not fight it for them. Their strength and powers were *severely* limited when sent to Middle Earth.
absolute nonsense. its literally the opposite in the books the witch king goes to enter Minas Tirith and is blocked by Gandalf. also people who only ever watched the movies would be surprise to know Gandalf beats the 9 Nazgul on weathertop not to long before Aragorn and the hobbits arrive. so no at no point in the books does Gandalf Fear the witch king
Thorough bullsh!t. Gandalf wasn't forced to flee in fear, it was time to move on and nothing to be gained by hanging around Weathertop The aNazgul even with Angmar, couldn't harm him. The stupid travesty parody movie has him being beaten by Angmar, a silly scene that they added to take up more time.
Bs,it's pretty obvious that no one with this channel has ever read the books. At least attempt to put some effort into research, guys. This wouldn't even be a fight. There's a world of difference in the powers of these 2.
This channel is actually a totally crap. Someone without any knowledge about Tolkien, using AI to produce videos, sitting aside to gain only the profit from the ads. Just a shame for the channel's owner.
Do you guys actually pay attention to your scripts and the subject matter? You're showing an old elf man with pointy ears as "Theoden" who is a human man. Mispronounced words like Eru Iluvatar. it's not E.R.U. Iluvatar. Wtf PAY ATTENTION, don't be lazy like every f one else. Repeating shht, ughhh over it
No the witch king was much more powerful than Gandalf the white ; the movie is accurate ; only Galadriel the most powerful of the elves could have defeated like she defeated Sauron ; Balrog defeated Gandalf or both died while the witch king defeated Gandalf
The Witch kings power was connected to sourons life force the more powerful souron became the stronger the witch king was.. cause souron is a mayar as well I think we can fairly say that during the siege of Gondor Gandalf was probably still a bit stronger then the witch king but it would be very close of a fight
Correction: it wasn't the Valar that decided Gandalf's fate to return as Gandalf the White, it was Eru Iluvatar himself. The Valar initially sent Gandalf, as the Grey, but that was the extent of their intervention. The rest falls directly on Eru Iluvatar as evidenced by the massive power shift between Gandalf the Grey and the White. Eru Iluvatar allowed Gandalf to use more of his power than he was ever allowed as the Grey and even gave him additional powers in order to overcome the forces of Sauron and be able to accomplish his mission.
As far as the power dynamic between Gandalf and the Witch King, both as the Grey and the White, Gandalf always had the upper hand in the regard. After all the Witch King was a mere mortal, not a Maia. However being an Istari Gandalf didn't have access to all of his Maia power. As the Grey he only had a fraction of it, and while as the White he had all of it and than some, his mission didn't change. That mission, of the Istari, was to be an advisor and guide, not a warrior. Moreover his mandate was to use as little of his power as was necessary and only use it when absolutely necessary. Thus Gandalf could have easily defeated the Witch King but that would have meant failing in his mission, in the same way that Saruman failed it, being a fellow Istari.
Therefore Gandalf chose the side of caution and giving the Witch King the respect he deserved, not necessarily because Gandalf couldn't handle the Witch King but rather because he was always a role model for others: the free peoples. Even the mightiest of them(like say Elrond, Cirdan or Aragorn) are nowhere near Gandalf's power level(even as the Grey) thus if Gandalf himself feared the Witch King than all the free peoples will too. If Gandalf was to be cocky and brash than maybe the likes of Elrond and Aragorn wouldn't have given the Witch King the respect he deserved and acted arrogantly against him, which could very well have led to their own downfall and with that all but guaranteed Sauron's victory. Gandalf the White had significantly more power of course, to the point where he absolutely could rival Sauron, which was never true for Gandalf the Grey nor for Olorin for that matter as Sauron was the strongest of all the Maia until Eru Iluvatar's intervention. However again if Gandalf slew the Witch King, which he absolutely could as he was no man but a Maia, as you correctly said, than again he would have failed his mission, becoming the warrior or leader, just as Sauron became, rather than remain the advisor and guide to enable others to defeat Sauron and remain free from all divine(Valar and Maiar) influences, which was the whole reason the Istari came to be in the first place.
That was well thought out and better explained
well writen!
I've never heard someone explain Gandalf's restraint as a function of modeling proper character to others. Great insight!
This is not a correct retelling. Lots of major mistakes and many, many mispronunciations. Utter nonsense.
Bit harsh
Like he hadn't read the books. Like they fed the books into AI, and this is what it came up with.
All the videos that come out with these ai voices are effortless crap. They just ask, probably chatgpt, to write an essay on a subject then post it with an ai voice. Hence all of the inaccuracies
Even the map of Arnor is completely wrong.
@@gavhenrad not harsh at all, it's fact
Gandalf and the Witch-King both wore Rings of Power, but Gandalf was a Maia. There is no comparison. Gandalf didn't just defeat the Witch-Dude on Weathertop, he beat all 9 of the Nazgul at once. Yes, he was forced to withdraw facing 9-1 odds, but if anyone feared the other it was the other way around. The movies get this completely wrong. Typically, these angelic beings never felt fear, because "death" was not known to them. Only dark creatures knew fear, because they know everyone around them is trying to kill them and assume their power, and because death, even for a wring-wraith, has terrible consequences. Being cast into the "Outer Darkness" is far worse than merely waiting in the "Halls of Mados" to be resurrected. The average movie-goer is oblivious to reality, so they accept this ludicrous "inferiority complex" from Gandalf.
I dunno about that Maia feat thing. Olorin (Gandalf) didn't want to come to Middle Earth because he feared Sauron and didn't think he was strong enough to fight him.
And that was Gandalf the Grey 😂
He then slew a Balrog solo,
Got a major power up way before The Battle of the Pelennor Fields.
The movies had to make the 9 more terrifying esp the witch-king,
As for fearing Saron when leaving for Middle Earth, maybe.. they were both fellow maia.
The Witch-king. he was a mortal bound to the Ring.. and never stood a chance..
@@jeffrobagman2834 Perhaps, but this is a completely different argument. Sauron was also a Maia, and perhaps the strongest. Gandalf clearly also feared the balrog (another Maia) and for good reason. But we're talking about the Witch-King only, and he was NOT of the Ainur.
Mostly agree. But you all are forgetting Sauron gave the WK a massive power upgrade right b4 Pelenor fields. He was in that moment at the height of his power, which is why he told Gandalf “this is my hour.” With the rest of the 9 and the whole army at his back, Gandalf would not have been able to hold the gate for very long. But his confrontation at the gate took just long enough for fate to intervene, forcing the WK to withdraw. Gandalf was victorious in that moment because fate was on his side.
@@christiansmith7358 Can't argue that in that moment, the WK/Nazgul/Orc army had far more combined power than Gandalf & Co. My argument only applies to a 1 v 1 encounter.
I rarely give something a "thumb's down". This earned one rather impressively. "TOILKIN" sealed the deal (4:27). Sheesh....
I don't know what is worse. The AI or the obscene mistakes.
As with most AI there are a lot of mistakes in this retelling.
No-one gets to re-write Tolkien, that's why the current "Rings of Power" series is a complete abomination
"No man can kill me."
What about half a trillion volts of magical Gandalf lightning?
Or maybe an Elf or a Dwarf or an Ent etc. Plenty on non-men about but a Shieldmaiden and a Hobbit were enough to do the job.
Gollum could have killed him...
If you remove the distraction of leading an army to war, protecting Gondor, dealing with Denethor and worrying about the vertically challenged, he could have nuked the nine simultaneously
I never thought of it as Gandalf being afraid. He was or would obviously feel fear in that moment. As the old saying goes, Bravery is not the absence of fear, it is defined by your actions when you're afraid. and a seasoned, welled fought, read, lived, travelled guy like Gandalf would be way too smart to not be somewhat afraid.
Gandalf being of good heart would be afraid for the mortals around him. empathy would even dictate that he would have "fear".
But he was not frozen in fear and afraid and avoiding the witch king.
I always thought that if Gandalf defeated the Balrog as Gandalf the Grey, there was no way a measly Ringwraith could stop Gandalf the White. In the book, the Ringwraiths flee when he rides over Pelennor Field to save Faramir. And then when the City Gate is destroyed and they are Face to Face because all others had fled, the Witch King flees to fight Rohan as they charge the Field at dawn. My lone criticism of the Movie was showing Gandalf knocked down and his staff broken by the Witch King. That was very different than the Book. The movie did show flames on the sword of the Witch King, which was cool.
There are plenty of other things to criticize the silly parody movies for.
Yes, Gandalf the White could defeat the Witch King, but he chose not to destroy the man but left his fate to die from Eowyn and Merry fulfilling the prophecy and most importantly crushing the pride which the Witch King held for his sacrifice turning to evil. To be crushed by a Maiar akin to Sauron was not a disgrace but to fall to a woman and a hobbit was humbling and disgrace. All his prideful history crushed.
Er Murazor son of King Ciryatan of the house of Elros, Elronds brother. He had Maiar blood and high elven blood.
The witch king is pretty interesting I wish we knew more of his past before turning a Nazgûl
I think Gandalf could've beaten the Witch King but I like the way they did it
How many fingers does Gandalf have?!?!?!
Among other errors in this video, it is never stated that the Witch-King was one of the 3 Nazgûl who were Númenórians.
Firstly, Gandalf faced down at least 7 of the 9. He may have fled, but he wasn't beaten.
Secondly And remember this was Gandalf the Grey, not White. He was more powerful, so at that stage, he was second in power only to Sauron. He says that himself later. So though the Witchking is powerful, he isn't akin to Gandalfs power, especially as the White .
Did Gandalf fear the Witchking? Yes, and no, he respected his power, but he feared Sauron more.
Gandalf used the word 'Flee' and later in the story 'Fly' it didn't mean he said surrender or give up, he said to 'get out and do what you must to bring this quest to and end'.
Gandalf never actually showed fear of the Witch King more of a caution counsil towards his mortal allies.
He was empowered by Eru
Merry stabbed the Witch King’s steed?
May your ale be uncommonly horrible for 7 years!
I don't believe, as an angel, Gandalf, a true servant of the gods, would be terrified of the Witch King. I think his deep concern for the welfare of others above himself in terms of safety from the corrupting powers of the Nazgul is sometimes mistaken for his fear towards the Witch King. Plus, Gandalf is way more powerful than the Witch King, but he doesn't show it because he is humble and unassuming, while the Witch King would appear so much more powerful than he really is because, as a servant of evil, he is overbearing, prideful, and a show-off.
No pointed ears on Gandalf or the Witch King.
Gandalf didn't fear the Witch King. Their encounter on Weathertop it took all of the nine to drive Gandalf off. Gandalf stood alone against the Witch King at the gates of Minas Tirith.
WTF Gandalf wasn't ''upgraded'' by the Valar it was sent back by Eru himself, dude get your fact straight
I'm sick to death of these AI rewrites. Still, it's better storytelling than Rings of Power.
The 2nd most powerful Nazgûl did have a name: Khamul, the Easterling. (He was not a Numenorian)
Yeah, meanwhile in the movies the most fancy magic he did was pop Gandalf's staff. Then get stuck in the face. Big let down in the movies.
This video reads like it was made by AI
Judging by the errors and inaccuracies it was written by ai
@@bryanhikes7248 and the weird pronunciations
The witch king shouldn't have been defeated so easily. It did not look right from my perspective... especially because no magic seemed to be involved. With such a great witch you would have assumed more fight more smoke and shadow a lot more unusual magic. Yet the defeat had the opposite effect.
Eye-nu-lin-duh-lay
The Istari, maiar we know as Gandalf/Saruman/Radaghast are forbidden their divine forms and majority of their "magical/mystical" power, even as THE WHITE Gandalf would be like 1% the full potency of "Olòrin" as his original self.
exactly! so few are aware of this - thank you
Have you even read the books? Gandalf did not fear the witch king. In fact he fought off all nine them at weathertop.
And he was not unstoppable. The non feed from Glorfindel. You definitely have not read the books
As is often the case with Tolkien, the power levels just don't follow any sort of logic, a maiar fleeing before an enhanced mortal, Sauron getting his finger lopped off by a mortal, Huan besting Sauron, Ungoliant being the most powerful being other than Eru fleeing from balrogs, a massive balrog/maiar being beaten by gandalf, Morgoth suffering a wounded foot from Fingolfin the ebb and flow of power levels is just frustrating and detracts greatly from the enjoyment of the fiction
Theoden had elf ears? Hmmm
Created by E R U Illuvatar? Who voiced this?
Okay so .... has never made any sense to me. Especially Gandalf THE WHITE, a Maia... who is accutely aware of his status and power. A being that on presentation even as Gandalf the Grey who battled a BALROG refusing to give ground in Moria and finishing on the side of that mountain. A BALROG.
So, the WITCH KING, formerly a human man of great power, is consumed by Sauron's power and enslaved by the ring is STILL a WRAITH. I get that the Witch King was far beyond the stature of the other ring wraiths and that his powers in his former life were greatly magnified because of the ring and Sauron's will.
But, nothing to me makes sense that of all creatures and beings in middle earth GANDALF THE WHITE... exhibited a demeanor of fearful subjection to the Witch-King. I mean....
The White Counsel did battle (in peter jackson film only) with All of the wraiths and the Necromancer/Sauron. .....
It is frustrating.
Saruman smote him, Elrond Smote him... and then Galadriel sent ALL of them back to darkness temporarily.
I get Gandalf being "concerned" and respectful of the danger that he posed to his personal well being and ability... but I think portraying Gandalf as if he was stricken with a paralyzing fear... didnt sit well with me.
Remember, all of the Istari were sent to leand and inspire the mortal races in the battle against Sauron, not fight it for them. Their strength and powers were *severely* limited when sent to Middle Earth.
J.J. Abrams has no authority to change the story. He didn't write it or talk to the author. Duh!
Witch king survived and will dominate again
Gandalf was no man...
The gift of Iluvatar wasn't given by the Valar, it was a gift FROM Iluvatar. What is this nonsense?
absolute nonsense. its literally the opposite in the books the witch king goes to enter Minas Tirith and is blocked by Gandalf. also people who only ever watched the movies would be surprise to know Gandalf beats the 9 Nazgul on weathertop not to long before Aragorn and the hobbits arrive. so no at no point in the books does Gandalf Fear the witch king
Thorough bullsh!t.
Gandalf wasn't forced to flee in fear, it was time to move on and nothing to be gained by hanging around Weathertop
The aNazgul even with Angmar, couldn't harm him.
The stupid travesty parody movie has him being beaten by Angmar, a silly scene that they added to take up more time.
Bs,it's pretty obvious that no one with this channel has ever read the books. At least attempt to put some effort into research, guys. This wouldn't even be a fight. There's a world of difference in the powers of these 2.
Sir Arther Dane Game of Thrones
Why all the pointed ears in the AI art!
This channel is actually a totally crap. Someone without any knowledge about Tolkien, using AI to produce videos, sitting aside to gain only the profit from the ads. Just a shame for the channel's owner.
Do you guys actually pay attention to your scripts and the subject matter? You're showing an old elf man with pointy ears as "Theoden" who is a human man. Mispronounced words like Eru Iluvatar. it's not E.R.U. Iluvatar. Wtf PAY ATTENTION, don't be lazy like every f one else. Repeating shht, ughhh over it
Is this video made by AI?
Sure is
No the witch king was much more powerful than Gandalf the white ; the movie is accurate ; only Galadriel the most powerful of the elves could have defeated like she defeated Sauron ; Balrog defeated Gandalf or both died while the witch king defeated Gandalf
Are you a drug user??
The Witch kings power was connected to sourons life force the more powerful souron became the stronger the witch king was.. cause souron is a mayar as well I think we can fairly say that during the siege of Gondor Gandalf was probably still a bit stronger then the witch king but it would be very close of a fight