Hello all! I have received a number of comments stating that, as the Nazgul were once living men, they would have passed to the Halls of Mandos for judgement and not into The Void. The following is an excerpt from the Return of the King: ‘You cannot enter here,’ said Gandalf, and the huge shadow halted. ‘Go back to the abyss prepared for you! Go back! Fall into the nothingness that awaits you and your Master. Go!’ This piece of dialogue led me to the conclusion in this video. I now realise that I should have included this in the video but as this was only my 2nd upload I am still learning! Thanks for all of your comments, I am already putting a lot of constructive criticism to good use in the future videos that I am currently working on!
"They crackled, withered and went out" their souls/spirits were released from the fire that had sustained their manifested form, and they passed to judgement, and they went where the souls/spirits of men go according to their judgment. What Gandalf referred to was the expected judgement of the souls/spirits of men whom covet power and whose lust for power wholly corrupted them. To an Abyss, a Nothingness, you could say unmade.
This guy is a total fake and a joke. As noted before, Tolkien clearly states without ambiguity that they got caught up Mt. Doom's explosions and burnt up into nothingness. Nothing about how they felt or even their individual names. This video is basically one pulled out of his ass.
The caveat here is that the Balrog is a Maia. It's erroneous to attribute Gandalf's speech as also applying to Men (however corrupted they may have become). Additionally, the "Master" being referred to here is more than likely Morgoth, as the Balrog never served Sauron. There is also some ambiguity about what is meant by "the nothingness that awaits," since Morgoth had already been cast through the Door of Night; he's not awaiting that fate. It's possible that Gandalf is referring to the aftermath of Dagor Dagorath (The Battle to end all Battles), where a Second Song would be made and Arda completely reformed, without Melkor and his minions. Also, it's worth examining Tolkien's own beliefs. He sincerely believed that no being was beyond redemption, and even struggled with the notion that orcs were irreparably evil. It's why he never actually settled on an origin story for them, going from corrupted elves to corrupted Men, to "uplifted" beasts. It was entirely an editorial decision for Christopher to use the elf-origin in the Silmarilion since that was the most completed work (though not the latest chronologically). Point being, the Nazgul were unquestionably Men, and thus undoubtedly not beyond redemption in Tolkien's eyes. They would almost surely be given a chance to repent in the halls of Mandos before getting wisked away to wherever the féa of Men go.
@@Stormbringer2012 Interesting question. The Nazgul were virtually the same thing, spirits/ghosts trapped in this world whose mortal bodies had perished long ago. the only real difference is that the Nazgul were 9 kings who possessed the Nine rings of men. But it is understood that Aragorn did not take the Army of the Dead to Mordor because of possible corruption of the dead by Sauron, i.e. he may have been able to turn them against the forces of Gondor.
I think the undead men that worked with Aragorn against the Corsairs might have felt relief and pretty free once they were released from finally fulfilling the oath they'd sworn to Isildur.
Pretty sure Gandalf mentioned something about "Go back and await for the abyss prepared for you and your master". It's not exactly that, but it's close enough and abyss is definitely mentioned in what he said. So I highly doubt they would have gone to the halls of mandos, and would have been sent to wherever corrupted souls and evil goes once dead.
@@SpiritStoneWarrior94-yx3gsGandalf has no knowledge of such matters after all he was only a Maia not a Vala… even Aulë didn’t know what happened to men and he was a Vala.
Tolkien specifically states that, caught up in the ruin of Orodruin, the Nazgul "crackled, withered and went out" like lights ! Where does a candle flame go when it is blown out ? Well that's where the Nazgul went !
@jacobfreeman5444 No, they did not share Sauron's fate. Sauron was doomed to wander the world, a spirit of malice and hate, but utterly powerless. The Nazgul were men, kept undead by the power of the rings. When the rings failed, the Nazgul finally died and went where all men go when they they die, which only Eru Iluvatar knows for certain.
I think Tolkien left an air of mystery about the Nazgûl to fire the imagination in readers. Reading The Fall of Gondolin left me in awe of his writing.
Yes. That is what happens, but what happens to their fëar? Do they head to the Halls of Mandos for some time and then head to a place set aside for Men? Or do they go to a kind of "hell?" Or do they just go into The Void or vanish out of existence? I think the video was
You got me thinking. If the Valar once forgave Sauron for his alliance with Melkor, why not also extend the mercy to the ringwraiths, whose transgressions where minor compared to Sauron's. Also considering that Sauron's allegiance to Melkor was willing, but the Nazgul were decieved and bound unwillingly to Sauron.Very nice channel BTW.
I remember them being willing to forgive him but he still had to serve judgement for his crimes and then sauron decided that since he would have to be punished for his crimes, similar to how melkor was the first time, he didn't want this and he ran away
Why would the Valar treat the Nazgul--who some tales indicate were "Black Numenorians"--better than the earlier Numenorians who rebelled against them, and were buried in the Akallabeth? No, they simply died and nearly immediately faded into oblivion.
In their lives, their deeds were legendary. In my life, they were nothing more then my enemies. But now that they have gone. I find I pity them. They were once great kings of men.
I heard one of them opened a successful chain of ethnic fast food outlets for orcs. Surprisingly popular with rich human and elf kids who are 'slumming it' while backpacking in Mordor during their gap year.
The writers of ROP have read your comment and are working on a series that brings Middle Earth into the present day. A musical adaptation has not been ruled out.
What I love the most about this channel is that he actually adds some of his own speculation and theories. So many other lotr channels will just read out a wall of text lifted from the book and then pointlessly end the video with "well we just dont know because its never mentioned in the books". Like bru we already knew that :))
From what I've heard, one of the Nazgul became an Uber driver and another one opened a small bakery in the East Village. I've tried the bakery. They make really good croissants.
They were unnaturally bound to the world through the Ring's power...but they were men. When the ring went into the fire that power ended..they were freed from it and would have done as any other human..their spirits would have sought the halls of Mandos and from there would have passed beyond the circles of the world. What happened then?
Thank you for your comment! Your point of view is the logical conclusion for those well versed in LOTR lore however, the following quote from the Return of the King is the reason I believe that the Ringwraiths would be sent to the void and not to the halls of Mandos: “You can not enter here,” said Gandalf, and the huge shadow halted. “Go back to the abyss prepared for you! Go back! Fall into the nothingness that awaits you and your Master. Go!” I believe this was Gandalf telling the Witch King that he would not be granted the gift of men upon his demise. This could have course been a clever tactic utilised by Gandalf in order to demoralise the Witch King but I found it convincing enough to base this video around the wraiths being sent into the expanse of the void. Thanks again for contributing to this fascinating discussion!
@@RealmsUnravelled in their present forms yes, but once released from the thrall of Sauron, I think their souls would pass into the halls of Mandos for judgement. Tolkien did not seem like someone who thought that people were irredeemably evil with no chance of salvation.
@@RealmsUnravelled I think the abyss prepared for them was Hell. Neither Morgoth nor Sauron could take the Gift of Men from them (only put it off), but they are still subject to judgment when they leave the world.
Their fates were tied to Sauron. So I can only imagine they fell into the wraith realm with him. Seems the gift of man was not denied them but even so they could not survive the destruction of the one ring. Too much of what they were was taken by its power. The only mercy they could recieve was to not haunt the world as a powerless shade like their former master unto the end of the world.
@@RealmsUnravelledChanging the final destination of the Ringwraiths would open a way for Sauron (or Melkor) to nullify the gift of men, but we are specifically told by Tolkien, that they could not do that. Maybe it was the nothingness of the void, as long, as they were bound to Middle Earth due to the ring, and true death afterwards.
It doesn't seem all that mysterious if you read the Return of the King: "And into the heart of the storm, with a cry that pierced all other sounds, tearing the clouds asunder, the Nazgûl came, shooting like flaming bolts, as caught in the fiery ruin of hill and sky they crackled, withered, and went out." I don't think they had a lot of time for reflection before going to the fate prepared for them.
I am.surprised that the author of this video did not make any reference at all to what is written in Canon about what happens to the Nazgul. Not sure where he got the specific info he presents- like the original names of wraiths other than the Witch King. Maybe from some other apocryphal Tolkien texts? But this would have been a pretty short video if he had simply referenced the passage you quoted from the end of Book 6, Chapter 3 (Mount Doom) in Return Of The King. They "crackled, withered and went out." After reading that I had no further questions.
@@jimmyboy131 Left for where is the question. They were men, and that would mean they should be bound for the Hall of Mandos. There is another place they could go - that of the Void - that this video is suggesting they went to. It isn't clear which of those they went to.
What a phenomenal presentation. I dare say that this is quite an underrated video, if not one of the most underrated videos regarding Tolkien's work. From the illustrations to the eloquent presentation and the comprehensive content, I enjoyed every single bit of it. An absolute masterpiece overall.
It's hard to imagine such tormented, ruthless and probably in some ways dependent and addicted beings feeling joy in the redemptive way you are describing. Maybe perhaps they felt some sense of relief from the release of Sauron's oppressive influence
Even though it's doubtful they actually chose redemption, it was very in character for the Valar to at least offer their enemies the chance to turn themselves in and earn redemption. I wouldn't put it past them to offer this chance to the Nazgul.
@@hebercluff1665There was nothing to offer for the Valar. The nine were once men, bound by being men and would still receive the gift of men. The Valar have no Power over their fate. They would die and their souls would go to the unknown place, dead humans go to in Tolkiens World. They would just be a few thousand years late.
Once the One ring was destroyed the other rings became little more than decorations. So the rings power that was keeping the wraiths corporeal ended immediately. The wraiths would have faded away rapidly after that going on to the after life in short order.
I really wish that Tolkien had gone into detail about the Ringwraiths, who they were before they got their rings, their changes after receiving their rings and afterwards. Not all of the men who received their rings were good either.
@@matthewfors114 After being unable to find the ring as they were 5 meter away and thrn beaten by Hobbits and a single man and thrn beaten again by water. They are as scary as toast.
There are hints that there are notes left behind by Tolkien, that his son Christopher, that put to a book. The biggest hint being the description of Morgoth's Ring and how he bound himself to middle earth. There could be manuscripts complete or incomplete about the ring wraith's history that are still locked away. I think the mystique and the speculation of who they were is what keeps these papers from ever being released if they exist.
@@TorianTammas it wasn't just any man, it was Aragorn. You know, a man who has already lived close to 100 years and is smarter, stronger ,faster and more skilled with a sword than any living man at that time and also used the fire to get rid of them. The Ringwraiths primary weapon is that they put fear into people, they are usually commanders and have orcs do their dirty work. I'm sorry if the book is a little to detailed and not super simple and just making every bad guy over powered and comically defeated illogically
@@TorianTammas a giant flood going at the speed of a freight train isnt supposed to dismount them? it also didnt kill them, thta is pretty scary. if i encountered creatures that cant be killed by a racing flash flood i would be terrified. Do you think you would survive a flash flood if you were standing in a riverbed?
Absolutely LOVE the artwork used in this video, it's stunningly beautiful, subtle yet powerful In equal measures. I'm not sure if some of the artwork is created by Alan Lee himself or if it's inspired by his art, but you can definitely feel the influence.
The illustrations are amazing, kudos to whoever generated them! I also doubt that any redemption was sought or received. If Saruman’s spirit was wafted away by a West wind, the Ring Wraiths stand little chance of forgiveness. Being so completely dependant on Sauron’s will for every action, it makes sense to me that they dissipated into nothingness just as he did.
But Saruman's spirit was that of a Maia, not of a man. Mankind are under the dominion of Eru Illuvatar, and once Sauron's chains were broken, I could easily see him claiming these long lost spirits as his own once again. Granted, everything is under the dominion of Eru, and we only have the examples of Sauron, Saruman, and Gandalf for what happens to Maiar who "die." Gandalf, who was valiant in his mission, was given greater discretion in the use of his own powers and sent back as a reward for his faithfulness, to finish his work. Saruman, who actively rejected his mission was likewise rejected by Eru, or so it seems. And Sauron tied so much of his own spirit into the physical integrity of the Ring that it was destroyed when the Ring was.
They would have been given the gift of men as promised. They desired power and likely acted unscrupulously, but their complete turn to evil was designed by Sauron. Like a master that beats his dogs into killers, they had no other option, they know of no other choice to survive. Sauron who repented briefly, once freed of Morgoth, yet then went back to serving evil is the one that faces the final destruction. The wraiths had no option to repent once tricked into addiction by Sauron.
When Meriadoc and Eowyn slays the Witch King, i distintively remember that is writen "And no more was he seen in that age of the world" i think is implied that HE indeed returned at one point.
I had a similar thought. With the power that kept them 'alive' and enslaved removed, There would be a sense of relief/release and then... the end and on to whatever eternity awaits all men.
Sauron still exists, permanently weakened, blown to the east by Iluvatar to wander powerless as a shadow with no ability to affect the world. I'd like to think the Nazgul, now released from Sauron's grasp, continued to hunt, but this time they hunted their former master.
The Nazgul's unlife was tied to the rings. When the One was destroyed, ALL the rings lost their power. With nothing left to bind theor spirits to the world, it's very likely they died and went to the Halls of Mandos to await judgment.
The rings didnt lose all of their power I think it was described as the other rings of power elf human and dwarf all last 98% of their power that they once had most of which was the dominating power they once had
@@theeffete3396 Spirits dont have to be tied to the world to not leave. Wraiths are just beings that dont move on. Maybe if they wished it so, they could have lingerd in the world. I dont think they hunted Sauron tho. That would have been pointless. Sauron cant die, and is inevitably going to regather his strengh and might later return, or influence the world in other ways. Like manipulation. he has done that quite often actually. Point is, there is no point in hunting Sauron, bechause you cant get rid of him.
Since the Ringwraiths Fea's were bound to the Ruling Ring once it was destroyed along with their bodies (Hroa) their fears would gone to the Halls of Mandos for a brief stay before on to wherever a fea of a man went to.
Very interesting, and I loved to watch and hear this. That being said; not all the ring wraiths were kings during their human lives, nor where they all noble men.
Topic question: what would Sauron (or Morgoth) have DONE with middle earth? What would either of their victories have looked like to Middle Earth and to what purpose would they drive it?
Angmar was able to think and make decisions on his own. The Nazgul were slaves to the ring, so they had to do, what the ring-bearer told them. But they still had the ability to think and act (remember that part in the Appendices about the movements of the Nazgul? It clearly states that Angmar had to make plans and decide what to do). Like Sauron said: "Get me the ring" and the Nazgul planned and acted by themselves how to achieve that goal. Another point: Angmar was the leader of Sauron's army. How would he be able to do that, if he wasn't able to think, plan and act/give orders on his own. A mere puppet wouldn't have been able to do that. So, I'd say that after the Sauron's death and the destruction of the ring, they weren't disorientated and they surely weren't left without a purpose. The real question is: When the One Ring was destroyed, all other rings lost their power. How strong were the Nazgul bound to their ring? Did it gave them life and powers or did it just make sure that they did what Sauron asked them? If it gave them their powers and life, they would have just vanished/died. If it was just a means of controling them, they now would be free. But, as we all know just from reading LotR, they were destroyed/died from the explosion of Mount Doom.
We play Dungeons and Dragons in Middle Earth. In our story Beruthiel the Black Númenórean was one of the Ring Wraiths. The Mouth of Sauron dug the Palantir out of the rubble of Barad-dûr and has teamed up with her. Its worked pretty well for a story so the players can adventure after the One Ring was destroyed.
This is an odd vid for several reasons. It makes no mention whatsoever of the nine rings that the RINGwraiths bore, and the fact that like the three eleven rings, once the one ring was destroyed, they lost all their power. I found this video uncompelling because it appears to be mostly the musings of its author without much in the way of reference to the actual Tolkien cannon. This entire thesis that the wraiths felt relief at the destruction of Sauron appears entirely without foundation. Disappointing.
2 of my favorite fantasy series, the Executioners Apprentice, and the Shannara chronicles, both feature many a character inspired by the Nazgul. Tolkien is just the father of most fantasy.
The Ringwraiths were destroyed when Sauron was killed. The rings "Forged" (actually cast- one forges blades not rings) by Sauron lost there power and were unable to keep the undead Ringwraiths undead. Tolkien mentioned that they flickered out of existence.
The end of the Ringwraiths is described near the end of the chapter "mount doom" in the Return of the King. Sam watches the end of all of Sauron's works created with aid of the one ring, Mt. Doom reels and splits open, the Dark Tower collapses, and the last sentence says "And into the heart of the storm, with a cry that pierced all other sounds, tearing the clouds asunder, the Nazgul came, shooting like flaming bolts, as caught in the fiery ruin of hill and sky they crackled, withered, and went out". As for the Witch King who died at the hands of a hobbit and a woman, ( and thus the prophesy of Glorfindel came true because no man's hand had brought about his end), it was a blade that was crafted by the Dunedain to deal him "a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will" that caused him to release a cry that "went up into the shuddering air, and faded to a to a shrill wailing, passing with the wind, a voice bodiless and thin, that died, and was swallowed up, and was never heard again in that age of this world". I think if their spirits somehow survived they ended up in the void with Morgoth.
Your Thoughts on the fate of the Ringwraiths line up with what i have considered. They were once mortal men but i feel what was left of them after being freed from the yoke of the One Ring, would have been judged to be beyond redemption and thus at least sent to some place, perhaps the void to spend eternity far from the souls of those they once tormented.
Sorry but this is way off, at least as regards to the fan theories. Return of the King text clearly states right after the Ring's destruction, "... tearing the clouds asunder the Nazgûl came, shooting like flaming bolts, as caught in the fiery ruin of hill and sky they crackled, withered, and went out." Crackled and went out evokes the image of a candle flame sputtering out at the end of its fuel. Withered can also evoke rapid shriveling and disintegration, perhaps like the Indiana Jones guy when he drinks the wrong chalice. As a young reader of the books, the final complete destruction of these Riders felt like an immense relief and vindication, after they had cast a terrifying pall over the whole story, always hunting, from whom the characters were never safe. Additionally, on the slopes of the Mountain Gollum predicts, probably truly, that when the Ring is destroyed he will perish into dust. The Nazgûl most likely suffered a similar though perhaps more dramatic fate.
Honestly the witch kings passing leaves the possibility of his return he is set out to let out a cry that is not heard again in that age. It would have been fun to see him trying to survive in the theoretical sequel by devouring the lesser rings witch likely retained their power.
When Sauron was at his weakest, therefore, the Nazgûl became inactive, but when Sauron's power began to gather again, the Nazgûl rise with him. Naturally, this means that after the One Ring is finally destroyed by Frodo and Sam, the Nazgûl are no more. There is nothing to bind their wraith-like souls to the mortal realm - the magic is broken.
I was of the impression that, canonically, the Nazgul either spontaneously died when the One Ring was destroyed, or (as seen in the Peter Jackson movie) were immolated by Mount Doom's eruption. Funny enough, I once read a fanfic where the Witch-King revived thousands of years later, in the present day, because his ring had been left abandoned on the ground during the Battle of Pelennor Fields, and wasn't destroyed like the other eight.
They all just went and retired to nice spooky stables with their horses afterwards. Once the witch king was dead they chilled out a hell of a lot. Good blokes when you get to know them really.
Why sauron was very hasty on attacking/charging into gondor? Was gimly or legolas who said that the orcs were just babies charging in the helms deep? What if sauron trained his army first before charging into gondor?. Is the orc has a short lifespan? 😂
Here is a question potentially worth looking into; what happened to the Nine Rings after Sauron's defeat and the passing of the Nazgul? I could see the eight remaining in Mordor falling into the ruins of Mount Doom and being destroyed, but what happened to the Witch King's ring after he was defeated? Was it taken into Mordor and destroyed as well, or did someone take it as a prize and also become corrupted?
With the One RIng destroyed, all the other rings, even the Three, would either be powerless or greatly weakened. Thus the Nine Rings would be nothing more than pretty trinkets. The Ring of the Witch King might have had some power still from the time of the Battle of Pelennor until the destruction of the One Ring.
I find it interesting that this video casts the men who became Ringwraiths in a somewhat sympathetic light. Other sources I read put more fault on these men for allowing themselves to become Ringwraiths in the first place. The argument was that they were not noble and kind rulers from the outset, but that they were bullies and tyrants before being bound to Sauron. Such personalities lent themselves far more to the desire for domination that the Rings of Power afforded them, and which came under sway of the One Ring.
It's interesting how the Shadow of Mordor painted the fate of Talion. Talion was chosen by Celebrimbor to help carry out his quest to destroy Sauron. I'm only at the, beginning part, but I guess he's trying to destablize Saurons forces by seizing control of his Orcs using the power of I think is another Ring of Power, a rival ring created by Celebrimbor also created in secret after Sauron screwed him over. This ring looks exactly like Saurons except it glows blue. After Sauron's destruction, Tallon was destroyed by a flying peice of rock launched from Mt. Doom. Shelob explains that he walked out of darkness and into freedom. The game ends with Talion walking in a field laying down his arms. First he drops his sword, then his son's broken sword, then his armor. The credit run as he walks towards a mysterious light between two towers set at a peak above the valley he was in. Presumably to join his wife and son in the afterlife.
Possibly. An interesting possibility. As a horseman, I was disturbed to see the images of the Ringwraiths mounts in The Return of the King. I hope that these 4 legged slaves found peace as well. Just my ramblings, thanks for listening!
I will note the the game Elden Ring has the Night's Cavalry; a group of nine black cloaked and armored warriors that hunt the players at night. In the game files they are apparently labeled "ringwraiths." One of the many references to them in other fantasy q9rks
Hello all! I have received a number of comments stating that, as the Nazgul were once living men, they would have passed to the Halls of Mandos for judgement and not into The Void. The following is an excerpt from the Return of the King: ‘You cannot enter here,’ said Gandalf, and the huge shadow halted. ‘Go back to the abyss prepared for you! Go back! Fall into the nothingness that awaits you and your Master. Go!’ This piece of dialogue led me to the conclusion in this video. I now realise that I should have included this in the video but as this was only my 2nd upload I am still learning! Thanks for all of your comments, I am already putting a lot of constructive criticism to good use in the future videos that I am currently working on!
"They crackled, withered and went out" their souls/spirits were released from the fire that had sustained their manifested form, and they passed to judgement, and they went where the souls/spirits of men go according to their judgment. What Gandalf referred to was the expected judgement of the souls/spirits of men whom covet power and whose lust for power wholly corrupted them. To an Abyss, a Nothingness, you could say unmade.
This guy is a total fake and a joke. As noted before, Tolkien clearly states without ambiguity that they got caught up Mt. Doom's explosions and burnt up into nothingness. Nothing about how they felt or even their individual names. This video is basically one pulled out of his ass.
The caveat here is that the Balrog is a Maia. It's erroneous to attribute Gandalf's speech as also applying to Men (however corrupted they may have become). Additionally, the "Master" being referred to here is more than likely Morgoth, as the Balrog never served Sauron. There is also some ambiguity about what is meant by "the nothingness that awaits," since Morgoth had already been cast through the Door of Night; he's not awaiting that fate. It's possible that Gandalf is referring to the aftermath of Dagor Dagorath (The Battle to end all Battles), where a Second Song would be made and Arda completely reformed, without Melkor and his minions.
Also, it's worth examining Tolkien's own beliefs. He sincerely believed that no being was beyond redemption, and even struggled with the notion that orcs were irreparably evil. It's why he never actually settled on an origin story for them, going from corrupted elves to corrupted Men, to "uplifted" beasts. It was entirely an editorial decision for Christopher to use the elf-origin in the Silmarilion since that was the most completed work (though not the latest chronologically). Point being, the Nazgul were unquestionably Men, and thus undoubtedly not beyond redemption in Tolkien's eyes. They would almost surely be given a chance to repent in the halls of Mandos before getting wisked away to wherever the féa of Men go.
What would happen if a ring wraith fought one those ghosts in the Return of the King?
@@Stormbringer2012 Interesting question. The Nazgul were virtually the same thing, spirits/ghosts trapped in this world whose mortal bodies had perished long ago. the only real difference is that the Nazgul were 9 kings who possessed the Nine rings of men.
But it is understood that Aragorn did not take the Army of the Dead to Mordor because of possible corruption of the dead by Sauron, i.e. he may have been able to turn them against the forces of Gondor.
Tolkien spoke of the gift of death given to men. I think no one ever saw that gift so inviting and releasing as the Nazgul did.
I think the undead men that worked with Aragorn against the Corsairs might have felt relief and pretty free once they were released from finally fulfilling the oath they'd sworn to Isildur.
Pretty sure Gandalf mentioned something about "Go back and await for the abyss prepared for you and your master". It's not exactly that, but it's close enough and abyss is definitely mentioned in what he said. So I highly doubt they would have gone to the halls of mandos, and would have been sent to wherever corrupted souls and evil goes once dead.
@@SpiritStoneWarrior94-yx3gsGandalf has no knowledge of such matters after all he was only a Maia not a Vala… even Aulë didn’t know what happened to men and he was a Vala.
@@mikni4069He knows what happened to Morgoth and that it is prophezised he will bring his servants with him at the end of times.
Tolkien specifically states that, caught up in the ruin of Orodruin, the Nazgul "crackled, withered and went out" like lights ! Where does a candle flame go when it is blown out ? Well that's where the Nazgul went !
That's what I thought, they went down in flames when the mountain blew up.
I'm by no means knowledgeable in this lore, but if the candle was lit in the darkness then into the darkness it will return waiting to be lit again.
They went to the same fate as their master. But unlike him they are unlikely to return. Why spend power on failed servants?
They went to the halls of Mandos for further travel outside the circles of the World. We don't know what happens to men after their death.
@jacobfreeman5444 No, they did not share Sauron's fate. Sauron was doomed to wander the world, a spirit of malice and hate, but utterly powerless. The Nazgul were men, kept undead by the power of the rings. When the rings failed, the Nazgul finally died and went where all men go when they they die, which only Eru Iluvatar knows for certain.
I think Tolkien left an air of mystery about the Nazgûl to fire the imagination in readers.
Reading The Fall of Gondolin left me in awe of his writing.
"They crackled, withered and went out". I think that pretty much says it all.
Could cut 8 minutes off the video with that.
I believe you dropped this, King 💍
Yes. That is what happens, but what happens to their fëar? Do they head to the Halls of Mandos for some time and then head to a place set aside for Men? Or do they go to a kind of "hell?" Or do they just go into The Void or vanish out of existence?
I think the video was
They bummed around for a few millennia then got hired by Warner Bros to act as the Dementors in Harry Potter!
🤣😂🤣
They started Nascar racing.
Good for them! Good work is so hard to get these days.
🤣
"It's a living..."
You got me thinking. If the Valar once forgave Sauron for his alliance with Melkor, why not also extend the mercy to the ringwraiths, whose transgressions where minor compared to Sauron's. Also considering that Sauron's allegiance to Melkor was willing, but the Nazgul were decieved and bound unwillingly to Sauron.Very nice channel BTW.
I remember them being willing to forgive him but he still had to serve judgement for his crimes and then sauron decided that since he would have to be punished for his crimes, similar to how melkor was the first time, he didn't want this and he ran away
Why would the Valar treat the Nazgul--who some tales indicate were "Black Numenorians"--better than the earlier Numenorians who rebelled against them, and were buried in the Akallabeth? No, they simply died and nearly immediately faded into oblivion.
In their lives, their deeds were legendary. In my life, they were nothing more then my enemies. But now that they have gone. I find I pity them. They were once great kings of men.
I heard one of them opened a successful chain of ethnic fast food outlets for orcs. Surprisingly popular with rich human and elf kids who are 'slumming it' while backpacking in Mordor during their gap year.
The writers of ROP have read your comment and are working on a series that brings Middle Earth into the present day. A musical adaptation has not been ruled out.
What I love the most about this channel is that he actually adds some of his own speculation and theories.
So many other lotr channels will just read out a wall of text lifted from the book and then pointlessly end the video with "well we just dont know because its never mentioned in the books".
Like bru we already knew that :))
This is fantastic. Not just your theory, but the eloquence with which you expressed it. Beautiful writing and orating. Thank you.
I'm 50/50 on whether this is high quality AI generated content, or just a well spoken gentleman
@@unOrigiNikIts AI as are the Images
From what I've heard, one of the Nazgul became an Uber driver and another one opened a small bakery in the East Village. I've tried the bakery. They make really good croissants.
Excellent story!!
No no no,they're all delivering takeaway in Nottingham
You’ve got a great voice for narration. Thank you.
They were unnaturally bound to the world through the Ring's power...but they were men. When the ring went into the fire that power ended..they were freed from it and would have done as any other human..their spirits would have sought the halls of Mandos and from there would have passed beyond the circles of the world. What happened then?
Thank you for your comment! Your point of view is the logical conclusion for those well versed in LOTR lore however, the following quote from the Return of the King is the reason I believe that the Ringwraiths would be sent to the void and not to the halls of Mandos:
“You can not enter here,” said Gandalf, and the huge shadow halted. “Go back to the abyss prepared for you! Go back! Fall into the nothingness that awaits you and your Master. Go!”
I believe this was Gandalf telling the Witch King that he would not be granted the gift of men upon his demise. This could have course been a clever tactic utilised by Gandalf in order to demoralise the Witch King but I found it convincing enough to base this video around the wraiths being sent into the expanse of the void. Thanks again for contributing to this fascinating discussion!
@@RealmsUnravelled in their present forms yes, but once released from the thrall of Sauron, I think their souls would pass into the halls of Mandos for judgement. Tolkien did not seem like someone who thought that people were irredeemably evil with no chance of salvation.
@@RealmsUnravelled I think the abyss prepared for them was Hell. Neither Morgoth nor Sauron could take the Gift of Men from them (only put it off), but they are still subject to judgment when they leave the world.
Their fates were tied to Sauron. So I can only imagine they fell into the wraith realm with him. Seems the gift of man was not denied them but even so they could not survive the destruction of the one ring. Too much of what they were was taken by its power. The only mercy they could recieve was to not haunt the world as a powerless shade like their former master unto the end of the world.
@@RealmsUnravelledChanging the final destination of the Ringwraiths would open a way for Sauron (or Melkor) to nullify the gift of men, but we are specifically told by Tolkien, that they could not do that. Maybe it was the nothingness of the void, as long, as they were bound to Middle Earth due to the ring, and true death afterwards.
It doesn't seem all that mysterious if you read the Return of the King: "And into the heart of the storm, with a cry that pierced all other sounds, tearing the clouds asunder, the Nazgûl came, shooting like flaming bolts, as caught in the fiery ruin of hill and sky they crackled, withered, and went out." I don't think they had a lot of time for reflection before going to the fate prepared for them.
So in other words, they finally died, and left this world.
Well, they'll have plenty of time for reflection as they await judgment in the Halls of Mandos, before finally being claimed by Eru Iluvatar.
I am.surprised that the author of this video did not make any reference at all to what is written in Canon about what happens to the Nazgul. Not sure where he got the specific info he presents- like the original names of wraiths other than the Witch King. Maybe from some other apocryphal Tolkien texts? But this would have been a pretty short video if he had simply referenced the passage you quoted from the end of Book 6, Chapter 3 (Mount Doom) in Return Of The King. They "crackled, withered and went out." After reading that I had no further questions.
@@jimmyboy131 Left for where is the question. They were men, and that would mean they should be bound for the Hall of Mandos. There is another place they could go - that of the Void - that this video is suggesting they went to. It isn't clear which of those they went to.
Yes. I don’t know where all these fan theories came from. Just read the book!
I would have thought they just kind of evaporated and blew away. That's what happened to Saruman.
For once I have to praise the algorithm for bringing me here. Excellent videos and presentation, instant sub here.
Wouldnt the oldest living Elves have know who they where as human kings?
What a phenomenal presentation. I dare say that this is quite an underrated video, if not one of the most underrated videos regarding Tolkien's work.
From the illustrations to the eloquent presentation and the comprehensive content, I enjoyed every single bit of it.
An absolute masterpiece overall.
It's 12 days old with almost 100k views, hardly underrated lol
Although I found the content interesting, it was also unnecessarily repetitive.
I couldn't agree more. Really great stuff.
Pp8p8p?Pas Pas 8pp😮pp😮pp8😮ppppppppppppp
It's hard to imagine such tormented, ruthless and probably in some ways dependent and addicted beings feeling joy in the redemptive way you are describing. Maybe perhaps they felt some sense of relief from the release of Sauron's oppressive influence
Even though it's doubtful they actually chose redemption, it was very in character for the Valar to at least offer their enemies the chance to turn themselves in and earn redemption. I wouldn't put it past them to offer this chance to the Nazgul.
@@hebercluff1665There was nothing to offer for the Valar. The nine were once men, bound by being men and would still receive the gift of men. The Valar have no Power over their fate. They would die and their souls would go to the unknown place, dead humans go to in Tolkiens World. They would just be a few thousand years late.
Once the One ring was destroyed the other rings became little more than decorations. So the rings power that was keeping the wraiths corporeal ended immediately. The wraiths would have faded away rapidly after that going on to the after life in short order.
They were men so it is unknown what happens to men after they die.
I really wish that Tolkien had gone into detail about the Ringwraiths, who they were before they got their rings, their changes after receiving their rings and afterwards. Not all of the men who received their rings were good either.
it adds to the mystique though, makes them scarier that we can only imagine who they were
@@matthewfors114 After being unable to find the ring as they were 5 meter away and thrn beaten by Hobbits and a single man and thrn beaten again by water. They are as scary as toast.
There are hints that there are notes left behind by Tolkien, that his son Christopher, that put to a book. The biggest hint being the description of Morgoth's Ring and how he bound himself to middle earth. There could be manuscripts complete or incomplete about the ring wraith's history that are still locked away. I think the mystique and the speculation of who they were is what keeps these papers from ever being released if they exist.
@@TorianTammas it wasn't just any man, it was Aragorn. You know, a man who has already lived close to 100 years and is smarter, stronger ,faster and more skilled with a sword than any living man at that time and also used the fire to get rid of them. The Ringwraiths primary weapon is that they put fear into people, they are usually commanders and have orcs do their dirty work. I'm sorry if the book is a little to detailed and not super simple and just making every bad guy over powered and comically defeated illogically
@@TorianTammas a giant flood going at the speed of a freight train isnt supposed to dismount them? it also didnt kill them, thta is pretty scary. if i encountered creatures that cant be killed by a racing flash flood i would be terrified. Do you think you would survive a flash flood if you were standing in a riverbed?
Thank you for pointing out that the Nazgul may have been tempted by Sauron through a desire to do good.
Absolutely LOVE the artwork used in this video, it's stunningly beautiful, subtle yet powerful In equal measures. I'm not sure if some of the artwork is created by Alan Lee himself or if it's inspired by his art, but you can definitely feel the influence.
OMG, the artwork in this video is next level! And your script is so eloquent. Wonderful job!
That was a surprisingly positive view of their end.
I sense that your channel will be big pretty fast. Amazing content so far, and very well illustrated! I'll be coming back for more
Its AI you fool
they opened a ringwraith escort service
The illustrations are amazing, kudos to whoever generated them! I also doubt that any redemption was sought or received. If Saruman’s spirit was wafted away by a West wind, the Ring Wraiths stand little chance of forgiveness. Being so completely dependant on Sauron’s will for every action, it makes sense to me that they dissipated into nothingness just as he did.
But Saruman's spirit was that of a Maia, not of a man. Mankind are under the dominion of Eru Illuvatar, and once Sauron's chains were broken, I could easily see him claiming these long lost spirits as his own once again.
Granted, everything is under the dominion of Eru, and we only have the examples of Sauron, Saruman, and Gandalf for what happens to Maiar who "die." Gandalf, who was valiant in his mission, was given greater discretion in the use of his own powers and sent back as a reward for his faithfulness, to finish his work. Saruman, who actively rejected his mission was likewise rejected by Eru, or so it seems. And Sauron tied so much of his own spirit into the physical integrity of the Ring that it was destroyed when the Ring was.
Thank you Krfification101. I had forgotten to weigh in the balance that the wraiths were once men.
well, there's probably quite the big change that the illustrator wasn't a person.
But didn't Saruman turn evil out of his own free will? The 9 kings who end up as ringwraiths were basically enslaved against their own will.
They would have been given the gift of men as promised. They desired power and likely acted unscrupulously, but their complete turn to evil was designed by Sauron. Like a master that beats his dogs into killers, they had no other option, they know of no other choice to survive. Sauron who repented briefly, once freed of Morgoth, yet then went back to serving evil is the one that faces the final destruction. The wraiths had no option to repent once tricked into addiction by Sauron.
It's a good enough tale to add to fan-cannon. Well done.
its quite interesting to know what and how much tolkien had to say about everything in that universe
I always assumed Kamal the easterling was the only Nazgûl we were able to put a name to. Nice work sir 🫡🥇
What happened to the Ringwraiths was sad. I saw one just the other day - "would you like fries with that burger?"
Yes, please. With extra bacon.
That was incredibly well written, moving poetry, quite reminiscent of Tolkien himself. Thank you!
When Meriadoc and Eowyn slays the Witch King, i distintively remember that is writen "And no more was he seen in that age of the world" i think is implied that HE indeed returned at one point.
So glad you do this without bad background music. It ruins so many videos.
Excellent video, questions, theories. I have subscribed! Brilliant!
Very well done and interesting, keep up the good work!
Thank you for your encouraging words! Your support means a lot
Send him money and he will.
I had a similar thought. With the power that kept them 'alive' and enslaved removed, There would be a sense of relief/release and then... the end and on to whatever eternity awaits all men.
Sauron still exists, permanently weakened, blown to the east by Iluvatar to wander powerless as a shadow with no ability to affect the world. I'd like to think the Nazgul, now released from Sauron's grasp, continued to hunt, but this time they hunted their former master.
The Nazgul's unlife was tied to the rings. When the One was destroyed, ALL the rings lost their power. With nothing left to bind theor spirits to the world, it's very likely they died and went to the Halls of Mandos to await judgment.
The rings didnt lose all of their power I think it was described as the other rings of power elf human and dwarf all last 98% of their power that they once had most of which was the dominating power they once had
@@theeffete3396 Spirits dont have to be tied to the world to not leave. Wraiths are just beings that dont move on. Maybe if they wished it so, they could have lingerd in the world. I dont think they hunted Sauron tho. That would have been pointless. Sauron cant die, and is inevitably going to regather his strengh and might later return, or influence the world in other ways. Like manipulation. he has done that quite often actually. Point is, there is no point in hunting Sauron, bechause you cant get rid of him.
Since the Ringwraiths Fea's were bound to the Ruling Ring once it was destroyed along with their bodies (Hroa) their fears would gone to the Halls of Mandos for a brief stay before on to wherever a fea of a man went to.
Love the way the 'history' is delivered. Cheers ❤
The story in the second half is really rather sweet.
Art & presentation are brilliant!
My favourite new LOTR channel, bravo sir.
really enjoyed this :)
They became the Auditors of the Disk World
Very interesting, and I loved to watch and hear this.
That being said; not all the ring wraiths were kings during their human lives, nor where they all noble men.
Amazing video. Beautiful images, very nice to listen to narration. Subbed
Wow you pressed a button!
@@petergianakopoulos4926i hope to never be as miserable as you.
Topic question: what would Sauron (or Morgoth) have DONE with middle earth? What would either of their victories have looked like to Middle Earth and to what purpose would they drive it?
Stunningly beautiful artwork.
Angmar was able to think and make decisions on his own. The Nazgul were slaves to the ring, so they had to do, what the ring-bearer told them. But they still had the ability to think and act (remember that part in the Appendices about the movements of the Nazgul? It clearly states that Angmar had to make plans and decide what to do). Like Sauron said: "Get me the ring" and the Nazgul planned and acted by themselves how to achieve that goal.
Another point: Angmar was the leader of Sauron's army. How would he be able to do that, if he wasn't able to think, plan and act/give orders on his own. A mere puppet wouldn't have been able to do that.
So, I'd say that after the Sauron's death and the destruction of the ring, they weren't disorientated and they surely weren't left without a purpose. The real question is: When the One Ring was destroyed, all other rings lost their power. How strong were the Nazgul bound to their ring? Did it gave them life and powers or did it just make sure that they did what Sauron asked them? If it gave them their powers and life, they would have just vanished/died. If it was just a means of controling them, they now would be free.
But, as we all know just from reading LotR, they were destroyed/died from the explosion of Mount Doom.
We play Dungeons and Dragons in Middle Earth. In our story Beruthiel the Black Númenórean was one of the Ring Wraiths. The Mouth of Sauron dug the Palantir out of the rubble of Barad-dûr and has teamed up with her. Its worked pretty well for a story so the players can adventure after the One Ring was destroyed.
I know it isn’t canon. But I love the ending that talion eventually got. From man to wraith to Nazgûl. Finally getting peace in the end.
Your voice is fantastic. Very soothing.
This is an odd vid for several reasons. It makes no mention whatsoever of the nine rings that the RINGwraiths bore, and the fact that like the three eleven rings, once the one ring was destroyed, they lost all their power. I found this video uncompelling because it appears to be mostly the musings of its author without much in the way of reference to the actual Tolkien cannon. This entire thesis that the wraiths felt relief at the destruction of Sauron appears entirely without foundation. Disappointing.
Great stuff ❤
Awesome video dude 😎 subbed
Excellent video... and speaking voice
With the Ring gone and a good blast from Orodruin, they finally bit the dust.
Thank you for sharing this information about this Movie's back ground though I seen all the Movie's.
Lord of The Rings and The Hobbit. I Dig It 🤙🌋🏖️
I like how you talk, scholar
Beautifully done. Great voice ! Congratulations.
Loved the video, great work!
Some images are increadible, could you please share the credits?
Script: AI
Narration: AI
Art: AI (or just stolen content)
@@MrMyers758 Really excellent designs. I'd love to know which AI tools you use for this please. I might have a go myself.
Thank you! I enjoyed this
Good video. Thanks.
Hello,
Thanks for your work !
Where do you find these drawings ? Who are the authors ?
A cool video, thanks
2 of my favorite fantasy series, the Executioners Apprentice, and the Shannara chronicles, both feature many a character inspired by the Nazgul. Tolkien is just the father of most fantasy.
The Ringwraiths were destroyed when Sauron was killed. The rings "Forged" (actually cast- one forges blades not rings) by Sauron lost there power and were unable to keep the undead Ringwraiths undead. Tolkien mentioned that they flickered out of existence.
Well done!
At 4:20 - that's a lot of fingers!
I love a happy ending!
At the end of their torturously extended lives these shadow figures recovered their humanity.
The end of the Ringwraiths is described near the end of the chapter "mount doom" in the Return of the King. Sam watches the end of all of Sauron's works created with aid of the one ring, Mt. Doom reels and splits open, the Dark Tower collapses, and the last sentence says "And into the heart of the storm, with a cry that pierced all other sounds, tearing the clouds asunder, the Nazgul came, shooting like flaming bolts, as caught in the fiery ruin of hill and sky they crackled, withered, and went out". As for the Witch King who died at the hands of a hobbit and a woman, ( and thus the prophesy of Glorfindel came true because no man's hand had brought about his end), it was a blade that was crafted by the Dunedain to deal him "a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will" that caused him to release a cry that "went up into the shuddering air, and faded to a to a shrill wailing, passing with the wind, a voice bodiless and thin, that died, and was swallowed up, and was never heard again in that age of this world". I think if their spirits somehow survived they ended up in the void with Morgoth.
Doubt they got the morgoth treatment that would be unfair since they had no control over their actions
I would have imagined that the Nine, being more connected to the One than the others, were broken when the One Ring was destroyed.
Is this a digital voice?
The power that sustained them was gone, thus they just passed away just like their master.
you do a great job.
Your Thoughts on the fate of the Ringwraiths line up with what i have considered. They were once mortal men but i feel what was left of them after being freed from the yoke of the One Ring, would have been judged to be beyond redemption and thus at least sent to some place, perhaps the void to spend eternity far from the souls of those they once tormented.
Sorry but this is way off, at least as regards to the fan theories. Return of the King text clearly states right after the Ring's destruction, "... tearing the clouds asunder the Nazgûl came, shooting like flaming bolts, as caught in the fiery ruin of hill and sky they crackled, withered, and went out." Crackled and went out evokes the image of a candle flame sputtering out at the end of its fuel. Withered can also evoke rapid shriveling and disintegration, perhaps like the Indiana Jones guy when he drinks the wrong chalice. As a young reader of the books, the final complete destruction of these Riders felt like an immense relief and vindication, after they had cast a terrifying pall over the whole story, always hunting, from whom the characters were never safe.
Additionally, on the slopes of the Mountain Gollum predicts, probably truly, that when the Ring is destroyed he will perish into dust. The Nazgûl most likely suffered a similar though perhaps more dramatic fate.
Honestly the witch kings passing leaves the possibility of his return he is set out to let out a cry that is not heard again in that age. It would have been fun to see him trying to survive in the theoretical sequel by devouring the lesser rings witch likely retained their power.
Honestly, I hope their end is as you described. That is the best one can hope for those poor men.
Merry Christmas and lots of love for everyone. ❤
very well done
The book's make it clear that everything that isent a living human and ONLY human they die. No exceptions.
When Sauron was at his weakest, therefore, the Nazgûl became inactive, but when Sauron's power began to gather again, the Nazgûl rise with him. Naturally, this means that after the One Ring is finally destroyed by Frodo and Sam, the Nazgûl are no more. There is nothing to bind their wraith-like souls to the mortal realm - the magic is broken.
I was of the impression that, canonically, the Nazgul either spontaneously died when the One Ring was destroyed, or (as seen in the Peter Jackson movie) were immolated by Mount Doom's eruption.
Funny enough, I once read a fanfic where the Witch-King revived thousands of years later, in the present day, because his ring had been left abandoned on the ground during the Battle of Pelennor Fields, and wasn't destroyed like the other eight.
Somebody in the near future may be able to make this become like the Conjuring Universe. I'll watch for sure.
They all just went and retired to nice spooky stables with their horses afterwards. Once the witch king was dead they chilled out a hell of a lot. Good blokes when you get to know them really.
this is not so much a stretch to posit....
they were mortal men, freed from the power sustaining them, they died.
Well written. Good sound.
Why sauron was very hasty on attacking/charging into gondor? Was gimly or legolas who said that the orcs were just babies charging in the helms deep? What if sauron trained his army first before charging into gondor?. Is the orc has a short lifespan? 😂
One can only delay, but not thwart the will of Eru Illuvitar. They share the Gift of Men.
Here is a question potentially worth looking into; what happened to the Nine Rings after Sauron's defeat and the passing of the Nazgul? I could see the eight remaining in Mordor falling into the ruins of Mount Doom and being destroyed, but what happened to the Witch King's ring after he was defeated? Was it taken into Mordor and destroyed as well, or did someone take it as a prize and also become corrupted?
With the One RIng destroyed, all the other rings, even the Three, would either be powerless or greatly weakened. Thus the Nine Rings would be nothing more than pretty trinkets. The Ring of the Witch King might have had some power still from the time of the Battle of Pelennor until the destruction of the One Ring.
I find it interesting that this video casts the men who became Ringwraiths in a somewhat sympathetic light. Other sources I read put more fault on these men for allowing themselves to become Ringwraiths in the first place. The argument was that they were not noble and kind rulers from the outset, but that they were bullies and tyrants before being bound to Sauron. Such personalities lent themselves far more to the desire for domination that the Rings of Power afforded them, and which came under sway of the One Ring.
You have a truly wonderful voice
It's interesting how the Shadow of Mordor painted the fate of Talion. Talion was chosen by Celebrimbor to help carry out his quest to destroy Sauron. I'm only at the, beginning part, but I guess he's trying to destablize Saurons forces by seizing control of his Orcs using the power of I think is another Ring of Power, a rival ring created by Celebrimbor also created in secret after Sauron screwed him over. This ring looks exactly like Saurons except it glows blue. After Sauron's destruction, Tallon was destroyed by a flying peice of rock launched from Mt. Doom. Shelob explains that he walked out of darkness and into freedom. The game ends with Talion walking in a field laying down his arms. First he drops his sword, then his son's broken sword, then his armor. The credit run as he walks towards a mysterious light between two towers set at a peak above the valley he was in. Presumably to join his wife and son in the afterlife.
Possibly. An interesting possibility.
As a horseman, I was disturbed to see the images of the Ringwraiths mounts in The Return of the King. I hope that these 4 legged slaves found peace as well. Just my ramblings, thanks for listening!
Well said.
Who did the artwork?
I will note the the game Elden Ring has the Night's Cavalry; a group of nine black cloaked and armored warriors that hunt the players at night. In the game files they are apparently labeled "ringwraiths." One of the many references to them in other fantasy q9rks