I loved Dr Talos’ rant about Frankenstein and myth transcending time and all this other insane stuff. Severian says “he’s either mad or he’s joking” I think that’s my favorite part of the series yet for some reason along with Typhon. Thanks for a great discussion
I'm currently reading through the series, and I look forward to each of these talks after I finish one book. You guys are helping me A LOT in grasping the text. Thanks for that :)
Thank you guys for a very interesting discussion on one of my favourite authors and books. Philip, you are making very accurate and shrewd observations for a first read, much more than I did as a teenager when the book first came out. You need to go onto the Long Sun after a well earned rest from this series of five wonderful and yet exacting books.
I love everything about this discussion! I missed so much on my first read. Once you’ve explained Citadel of the Autarch to me, I’ll definitely reread all four books 😆 The last few pages of the last book is like a rug being pulled from under you. It explains everything without explaining anything at all!
Last summer, Moyd at Media Death Cult had the hosts from Alzabo Soup on to discuss Book of the New Sun. When they reach the climax of Citadel of the Autarch you see Moyd’s brain hit critical mass and then short-circuit. It’s such an ending!
Very late to this. But "Better a late like and comment than no like and comment" (Old YT proverb).😁 Thanks for another thought provoking discussion! All the best, Philip!
@@tasosalexiadis7748 I remember when I realized that each book and the series referred to Severan. He was The Torturer, The Conciliator, The Lictor and The New Sun. The Autarch book hadn't come out yet when I made the connection.
I would like to add that the fifth book (urth). Was decided when Gene Wolfe wanted a forth book. When Gene Wolfe was edited the third book. It was only going to be three books. The publisher would accept four books but then the publisher wanted a fifth book some years later. On what happens after. I just love the fifth book and wanted to defend it a bit haha. I would see no reason why someone would not read it when you have come so far. And it's so good. Such a sifi book. Not a decoder more question I would say. In the spirit of David Lynch Twin peaks. When you read the forth book I think you will notice what excellent part he added. No spoilers I think. Thanks so much for the chat! I'm so hoping for spoiler chat for the fifth book 😅
Really? I’ve read the letter Wolfe wrote to his editor (published in the collection, Castle of the Otter) when he explains that he’s just finished writing the third book but it’s as long as the first two combined and so he suggests splitting it. I’d have to double-check but I don’t remember anything about a request for a fifth volume. Do you have a source on that? (Not trying to fight with you; I’m legitimately curious.)
@@paulwilliams6913 Yea exactly it was to long the third book and he wanted to add some more storymomments and make it in four books. I followed the read along on "media death cult" UA-cam channel that the Alzabou soup podcast join. They mentioned this many times in the different "explain" videos they have on every books. I don't remember which one they mention it but I will link the Playlist here. They know there GeneWolfe. It's some really good stuff haha. There is alot of for shadow in the third book for urth. So it makes sense. It was also fun to hear that Phil in the Alzabousoup podcast was extremely against the fifth book and now it's his favorite one. I think it's a fun note to get people to read the fifth book. Hope this was any help. Cheers!
Philip, I have two video suggestions if you’d take them! (1) I’d love to see you do a video recommending specific ancient texts that fantasy lovers might enjoy. I read Beowulf for the first time last month and loved it but don’t really know where to go from there. (2) I don’t know if you’ve seen the channel ‘The Library Ladder’ but I feel you two would collaborate tremendously!
Basically any epic poetry from Homer to Tennyson’s Idyls of the King. There are boring stretches in each (Iliad, Paradise Lost, Divine Comedy) but most parts are exciting and essential.
I think that Wolfe is also playing with the life and death connections with Severian and Dorcas. You can also read it the reverse of the way Matt suggests. Dorcas is death because she’s actually a dead woman who was restored to life by the Claw. Severian then might represent life because he is the one responsible for restoring her. Plus he’s a young man who’s just come into adulthood with all of the growing and changing that entails. The black Severian wears certainly suggests death, but the white Dorcas wears can also symbolize death.
I just finished book 2 of the new sun. Did you have a discussion of Claw of the Conciliator, and the video was taken down? EDIT: Never mind- I found your discussion of "Claw of the Conciliator" on Matt on Books channel. Thanks. :)
Tanith Lee is one of the finest writers to ever grace the field of speculative fiction. The author of around 100 novels and several hundred short stories, she wrote two episodes of the iconic TV series Blake’s 7, was the first woman to win the British Fantasy Award - which she followed with two World Fantasy Awards, shortlistings for all manner of accolades including Nebula and BSFA Awards - and in 2013 she received a ‘Lifetime Achievement Award’ from the organisers of World Fantasycon.
Hey Philip, really enjoy these. I’d plea for you to reconsider reading urth of the new sun. That’s the actual ending and it’s deeply tied to the series since it’s a sequel, it just one book that really shades light on the entire series and I’d say it would make a greater topic of discussion with your buddies in comparison to the first four books. Why go 4 just to not finish with 5
I've been reading along with you guys (somewhat coincidentally, as I just happened to buy the first volume about a week before you started doing reviews and discussions). I have to be honest, I almost DNFed this one. I wasn't interested in anything that was going on until something like 94 pages in when the confrontation with Agia happens. However, from that point on it probably became my favorite in the series so far. I'm still not convinced I've been enjoying this as much as a lot of people -- I started reading it because it came with a ringing endorsement from Neil Gaiman, and because a blurb on the back of one of his other books compared him to the likes Toni Morrison and Cormac McCarthy (RIP), which I think is pretty far fetched -- but I still haven't felt like I've been wasting my time reading it. Maybe everything will snap into place once I finish it, that's what a lot of fans seem to think
I’ll admit, I’m totally willing to put Wolfe in the same echelon as Morrison and McCarthy. All are distinctive and wonderful in style, ambition, technique, vision, thought, etc., but I think they’re equitable in terms of their artistic powers, inasmuch as such things can be quantified. But your mileage will vary, I suppose.
Did anyone else think Severian might hunt down an alzabo and eat its gland or something, and then eat a piece of Typhon? Pretty farfetched but he brought the alzabo up a couple pages after killing Typhon, and mentioned not knowing the words of power for Typhons tech. Also (I think in Sword) he mentions at some point having more minds within him in the "current" time (while writing), so I was thinking he begins indulging in the alzabo drugs more at some point.
I’ve definitely wondered how many minds the narrator Severian has absorbed and have the impression it’s more than just Thecla’s. I hope to find out in the fourth installment!
Really enjoying these discussions! So far, the 3rd book has been my favorite in the tetralogy.
I’m glad you’re enjoying the chats!
@@mattschultz1153 Yes, we did. You’ll find all the discussions in the “Wolfe” playlist on my channel. Cheers!
I loved Dr Talos’ rant about Frankenstein and myth transcending time and all this other insane stuff. Severian says “he’s either mad or he’s joking” I think that’s my favorite part of the series yet for some reason along with Typhon. Thanks for a great discussion
Thank you for watching!
Thank you so much for this discussion! You brought up so much that i missed. It really makes me appreciate the books so much more.
I’m glad you enjoyed the discussion. Thank you for watching!
I'm currently reading through the series, and I look forward to each of these talks after I finish one book. You guys are helping me A LOT in grasping the text. Thanks for that :)
I’m glad the discussions are helpful!
Thank you guys for a very interesting discussion on one of my favourite authors and books. Philip, you are making very accurate and shrewd observations for a first read, much more than I did as a teenager when the book first came out. You need to go onto the Long Sun after a well earned rest from this series of five wonderful and yet exacting books.
Thank you! I appreciate both the encouragement and the recommendation!
These chats have been amazing and inspired me to reread along with you all. Thanks!
I’m very glad you’ve enjoyed the chats!
I love everything about this discussion!
I missed so much on my first read. Once you’ve explained Citadel of the Autarch to me, I’ll definitely reread all four books 😆
The last few pages of the last book is like a rug being pulled from under you. It explains everything without explaining anything at all!
I know I’m missing a lot, but it’s fun to guess at things, and I look forward to those last few pages!
Last summer, Moyd at Media Death Cult had the hosts from Alzabo Soup on to discuss Book of the New Sun. When they reach the climax of Citadel of the Autarch you see Moyd’s brain hit critical mass and then short-circuit. It’s such an ending!
Great discussion
Thank you, Tai!
Still really enjoying these conversations, guys!
Thank you, Jeroen!
Very late to this. But "Better a late like and comment than no like and comment" (Old YT proverb).😁
Thanks for another thought provoking discussion! All the best, Philip!
“A unicorn is never late. Nor is she early. She arrives precisely when she means to.” 😁 Cheers, Angela!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Ah, I see Dr Fantasy also has Golden Proverbs --- The Ultimate Collection. 🦄❤
The test is not about becoming the Autarch, but about becoming the New Sun.
The Claw is linked to the New Sun, but as a symbol.
Thanks! Do keep in mind that we haven’t yet covered the fourth part of Book of the New Sun (Citadel of the Autarch), and I have not read it yet.
@@tasosalexiadis7748 I remember when I realized that each book and the series referred to Severan. He was The Torturer, The Conciliator, The Lictor and The New Sun. The Autarch book hadn't come out yet when I made the connection.
I would like to add that the fifth book (urth). Was decided when Gene Wolfe wanted a forth book. When Gene Wolfe was edited the third book. It was only going to be three books. The publisher would accept four books but then the publisher wanted a fifth book some years later. On what happens after. I just love the fifth book and wanted to defend it a bit haha. I would see no reason why someone would not read it when you have come so far. And it's so good. Such a sifi book. Not a decoder more question I would say. In the spirit of David Lynch Twin peaks. When you read the forth book I think you will notice what excellent part he added. No spoilers I think. Thanks so much for the chat! I'm so hoping for spoiler chat for the fifth book 😅
Thank you! I’m sure I will eventually read Urth of the New Sun as well. I’m intrigued to see where Wolfe goes in it!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I'm glad to hear!
Really? I’ve read the letter Wolfe wrote to his editor (published in the collection, Castle of the Otter) when he explains that he’s just finished writing the third book but it’s as long as the first two combined and so he suggests splitting it. I’d have to double-check but I don’t remember anything about a request for a fifth volume. Do you have a source on that? (Not trying to fight with you; I’m legitimately curious.)
@@paulwilliams6913 Yea exactly it was to long the third book and he wanted to add some more storymomments and make it in four books. I followed the read along on "media death cult" UA-cam channel that the Alzabou soup podcast join. They mentioned this many times in the different "explain" videos they have on every books. I don't remember which one they mention it but I will link the Playlist here. They know there GeneWolfe. It's some really good stuff haha.
There is alot of for shadow in the third book for urth. So it makes sense. It was also fun to hear that Phil in the Alzabousoup podcast was extremely against the fifth book and now it's his favorite one. I think it's a fun note to get people to read the fifth book. Hope this was any help. Cheers!
ua-cam.com/play/PL61qL6xT89raba-kzjSybQMlUPgf0L7UY.html
Philip, I have two video suggestions if you’d take them! (1) I’d love to see you do a video recommending specific ancient texts that fantasy lovers might enjoy. I read Beowulf for the first time last month and loved it but don’t really know where to go from there. (2) I don’t know if you’ve seen the channel ‘The Library Ladder’ but I feel you two would collaborate tremendously!
Thank you for both suggestions, which are fantastic! All the best!
Basically any epic poetry from Homer to Tennyson’s Idyls of the King. There are boring stretches in each (Iliad, Paradise Lost, Divine Comedy) but most parts are exciting and essential.
I think that Wolfe is also playing with the life and death connections with Severian and Dorcas. You can also read it the reverse of the way Matt suggests. Dorcas is death because she’s actually a dead woman who was restored to life by the Claw. Severian then might represent life because he is the one responsible for restoring her. Plus he’s a young man who’s just come into adulthood with all of the growing and changing that entails. The black Severian wears certainly suggests death, but the white Dorcas wears can also symbolize death.
That’s an excellent point about the potential for exactly the reverse in terms of the symbolism of Dorcas and Severian. Cheers, Nicholas!
I just finished book 2 of the new sun. Did you have a discussion of Claw of the Conciliator, and the video was taken down?
EDIT: Never mind- I found your discussion of "Claw of the Conciliator" on Matt on Books channel. Thanks. :)
Cool! I’m glad you found it!
Tanith Lee is one of the finest writers to ever grace the field of speculative fiction. The author of around 100 novels and several hundred short stories, she wrote two episodes of the iconic TV series Blake’s 7, was the first woman to win the British Fantasy Award - which she followed with two World Fantasy Awards, shortlistings for all manner of accolades including Nebula and BSFA Awards - and in 2013 she received a ‘Lifetime Achievement Award’ from the organisers of World Fantasycon.
That’s a remarkably distinguished career!
Hey Philip, really enjoy these. I’d plea for you to reconsider reading urth of the new sun. That’s the actual ending and it’s deeply tied to the series since it’s a sequel, it just one book that really shades light on the entire series and I’d say it would make a greater topic of discussion with your buddies in comparison to the first four books. Why go 4 just to not finish with 5
Thanks! I will likely give Urth of the New Sun a try, especially if I enjoy Citadel of the Autarch.
32:47
"A riot is an ugly thing.. and I think it's just about time we had one!"
~Young Frankenstein
What a book!!!
I've been reading along with you guys (somewhat coincidentally, as I just happened to buy the first volume about a week before you started doing reviews and discussions). I have to be honest, I almost DNFed this one. I wasn't interested in anything that was going on until something like 94 pages in when the confrontation with Agia happens. However, from that point on it probably became my favorite in the series so far. I'm still not convinced I've been enjoying this as much as a lot of people -- I started reading it because it came with a ringing endorsement from Neil Gaiman, and because a blurb on the back of one of his other books compared him to the likes Toni Morrison and Cormac McCarthy (RIP), which I think is pretty far fetched -- but I still haven't felt like I've been wasting my time reading it. Maybe everything will snap into place once I finish it, that's what a lot of fans seem to think
I’m reserving my judgment until I read the very end of The Book of the New Sun. I’m hoping some things will fall into place then, but we’ll see!
I’ll admit, I’m totally willing to put Wolfe in the same echelon as Morrison and McCarthy. All are distinctive and wonderful in style, ambition, technique, vision, thought, etc., but I think they’re equitable in terms of their artistic powers, inasmuch as such things can be quantified. But your mileage will vary, I suppose.
Did the Citadel of the Autarch discussion ever happen? I don't see it on Matt's channel.
@@t11001100 The final discussion happened on my channel at a time when Matt had temporarily left BookTube. It’s in my Wolfe playlist. Cheers!
I think the back half of Sword of the Lictor was where I finally started to "get it." As much as it could be got, I suppose.
I’m in the same boat, Andrew!
I wonder if I’ll have anything to say when we discuss Citadel of the Autarch. I just don’t know if I have too much to offer ;)
Ha ha ha! We’ll find out!
Severian meets 2 blokes in his travels that make 'that's what she said' jokes and concludes that they must be the same person
Did anyone else think Severian might hunt down an alzabo and eat its gland or something, and then eat a piece of Typhon? Pretty farfetched but he brought the alzabo up a couple pages after killing Typhon, and mentioned not knowing the words of power for Typhons tech. Also (I think in Sword) he mentions at some point having more minds within him in the "current" time (while writing), so I was thinking he begins indulging in the alzabo drugs more at some point.
I’ve definitely wondered how many minds the narrator Severian has absorbed and have the impression it’s more than just Thecla’s. I hope to find out in the fourth installment!
30:06 TYPHON~PYTHON.
Dorcas was his mom!!!
@@peterinbrat Wild!
Grandmom