ToneX Pedal - Probably Not What You Expect
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- Опубліковано 18 бер 2023
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This is some of the best advice I've ever seen on You Tube. Thanks so much for you knowledge, honesty and transparency. Keep up the great work!
Keywords used here; "it's a player"!!! thank you Barry! I'm staying old school!
A professional vs an amateur taking a picture with a camera is a great analogy! Just got my Tonex pedal yesterday. I realize trying to find a profile you enjoy can be like going down a rabbit hole. On the other hand, it you find one you really like, you can count on it always sounding the same. When gigging, you may need to EQ the output a bit depending on the venue, but that's it. One advantage of the profiler I see over the modeler is that you get to hear what a particular amp is supposed to sound like. For example, I will never own a Dumble, but if I hear some Michael Britt's Dumble profiles that I like, I can count on these results to be optimized for that amp and I can just buy the particular profile pack and I will get exactly that (assuming I use a similar guitar to the one used for the sound clip). With the modeler, I can never be sure that my amp settings are giving me the best that the amp has to offer, but if I can compare my model sound with a professionally created profile that I really like, I can try to get closer to the real thing. It's like improving my own photographer's skills by trying to copy the composition, the lighting and the image quality of a professionally created photo, if that makes any sense...
Excellent piece. Very helpful.
Outstanding explanation! So great to learn this. Thanks so much
Wow, really great points that I hadn't thought of. I appreciate the insight
Tonex can separate the amps and the cab on the profile. On a practical application, changing cab/ mic placement will usually have a much stronger effect than making minor adjustments to amp knobs. If you have a profile on the ballpark of what you're looking for and found the right cab/mic, the gain and eq adjustments on Tonex will do the job and achieve the intended final result. At this point not being 100% faithful to the original amp should not be a problem - we will probably insert eqs and compressor at the mixing stage anyways ..
funny thing but with a real amp those eq knobs work miracles.
Great video. So informative. Thanks for sharing this.
Amazing video! Thanks for clarify!
What a lesson! Thanks for the detailed explanation :)
ToneX is absolutely fantastic. Certainly not the first to use this type of technology in the box- Overloud’s THU comes to mind, but it just doesnt sound that great.
Where ToneX technology really excites me is when it comes to outboard gear. Guitar amps are unbelievably nonlinear. This technology could theoretically be used to capture hardware EQs, compressors, and (the flavor of) preamps - ala Acustica audio, but replete with the THD of the unit.
Wherher IK wants to go down that rabit hole (considering they have their TRacks Algorthimic units that have been around forever) but they now hold in their hands the technology to bring us another generation closer to emulating hardware outboard in the box.
This pedal specifically is a beautiful thing, and I think it puts power in the hands of musicians at a VERY fair price point. Also seems to respond to input gain better than a Kemper.
Cool stuff
Did you steady check out the Neural And Modeler NAM… also great price point 😜
Thank you Barry, you saved many hours explaining profilers. to me its like profilers shouldn't have any knobs, other than maybe a volume. excellent and will watch more.
Love the bloopers at the end Barry. Precious! 😅
🎉 best explanation sir 👍
Perfect analogies....
Top notch advice. Other UA-cam guys should profile your approach.
The best sir!
Bravo! Excellent description and analogies. This device looks perfect for my situation. I have 3 amps that I drag to all my gigs. It wears me out, I'm too old to be slugging all that stuff around. I love the sound of my rigs, I have them dialed in exactly the way I want them. Looks like all I have to do is properly capture them.
Great information. Been testing/using Tonex application in DAW and to your point, my homemade captures are only so so.
Appreciate you. Subbed, liked, and notified.
Great overview Barry! I've done just around 200 profiles for the TONEX so far (amps and stomps), experimented with different mic'ing techniques, no cab at all (via the DI out of a reactive load box or the amps themselves), etc. I think I'm getting better at these as I go but there are some definite lessons I've picked up along the way. So if you're something thinking about TONEX and doing your own captures, here are some tips. Obviously, it starts with the amp and guitar. Dial the amp in first. Now, if you're going to create a profile, you're safer starting out using a single microphone. At least then, phase issues won't be a concern. In fact, if you're not recording amps regularly, stay away from multiple microphones (especially not room microphones - close mic's only here). Now, that may sound a little flat and unexciting, but at least phase issues won't be a concern and people can work with the tone. If you're going to use multiple microphones, they better be in phase. Also, this might sound a bit controversial, but don't be afraid to sweeten the sound on the way in if you've got a good hardware EQ. Get the best sound going in and you're going to have a killer sounding profile. People can subtract low end or EQ ITB if needed, but make it sound great without any extra work. That said, there's a fine line between a little bass boost and mud. But the hardest part is really dialing in the amps to perfection. Also, when doing captures, use the levels IK recommends but don't overdrive your preamps (no one wants to hear that). Lastly, and most improtantly, when playing through TONEX captures, it REALLY wants a loud input signal. Hotter than you're probably used to running your guitars into your DAW. Don't be afraid to boost the input gain in the TONEX model (Gain knob) or software (input slider at the bottom left).
Great tips, thanks. Out of curiosity, can you capture amps / cabs using just the Tonex pedal or do you need the Tonex Capture to do that?
These takeouts at the end earned you a new subscribe! 😅
Really, this was the first of your videos I watched and the takeouts showed your honest self... Immense push of your credibility!
Absolutely great info, i think this has finally explaines the difference in a way that completely computes.
Might been great to have some cutaways to the things your reference in the video just for those of us that are a bit more visual.
But great info sir!
Thanks. I’m a tube amp guy and I ordered one on a whim today without really know what it was. Worth trying out to see if I like it for something.
Nice channel . I am in 💯
its actually called a profile on the kemper and capture on the quad cortex. Just because changing the eq on the capturing/profiling device might not be exactly like the amp, doesn't mean it sounds bad. I think the eq on my quad cortex actually sounds better than on my actual amp.
This takes Research. knowledge and Understanding. Anyone can buy anything.the MOST I will use is IK MM 3.5 Max w/SOLO
. I was surrounded with Modelers. Thanks Berry.
I have three Top quality Point to point Tube amps and an OXBox. I still use my Kemper just as much as teh real amps in my Studio. I actually use my kemoper for 90% of my love gigs. Looking at the ToneX now. . . I absolutely agree about MBritt Pofiles ! Look no where else. He's the Master ! If MBritt starts doing stuff for ToneX. . . I'm all in !!
This is the first time I’ve understood this clearly. You’re someone I can learn from - subscribed I don’t share all of your opinions, but I’m now well educated on how this works. Thanks for taking the time mate.
If I just do home recording, and I have a helix floor. Could I benefit from using this with it?
I have to agree. I ordered the tonex to take the burden off of lugging around my jvm 210h for short shows. I will probably purchase profiles from pros instead of spending several hundred more to profile my 2 amps. Probably only need 2 to 3 amps to cover all our material anyways.
Thanks for your efforts Barry.
Thinking about getting the ToneX...
You say you can't mod a profile once "snapped" but the ToneX has EQ knobs etc.
So, it i possible to shape the sound of the profile?
(Apologies if I don't understand, yet to get a profiles.)
Cheers, Peter
0:53 You're thinking about the POD ? :D
Barry, I just discovered you today. I like the way you think and explain things! Thanks so much for this video. Younger people don't buy amps and don't ride Harley's, right? I love real tube amps and I'm and older guy. I've been playing a Kemper Stage in church, but I am interested in buying the ToneX to use on my pedalboard with my Strymon pedals.
Great video! Are you still happy with the ToneX Pedal?
Good info, do you need the pedal for the highest quality, or does the software work as good for downloaded captures ?
God i love the Tonex pedal ...
Tonex has changed my opinion of what is possible from a digital amp tone. I use the Tonex in the loop of a HX stomp XL and I have a dynamite rig that has so many applications. I grew up with real amps and I hate to sound like a fanboy but i feel like the game has truly changed.
Great analogies!! I see that the ToneX pedal is sold with amplitube software.. are you able to load one of the amplitube amps into the pedal and play it offline? As in dial in a sound you like with one of the amplitube amps and then load that in as a preset to the pedal?
Unless I misunderstood you when I do a profile of one of my amps, when I change the noise gate or the gain the profiled amp will respond just like my real tube amp.
You’ve just sold me, I can use my effects, done.
Thanks for explanation. I believe the Tonex is misunderstood by many. I was one of them. I would rather have a modeler that I can use the pedal effects and pick an amp to use.
Hi Barry, excellent video. I have a recording studio in my home and I have always been very traditional, good guitar, good tube amp, good mic, good mic-pre into Pro Tools. I admit I decided to look into the digital modeling world. I started with the HX Stomp, I did not like it at all and sold it. Then I bought the Strymon Iridium. I still have it, it does the job but to my ears it still isn't real. I bought the Neural DSP Quad Cortex, for $1,800 it's just ok in my opinion.The amp models (not captures) are ok but they all seem to breakup way sooner than they should. There are a number of amps in their catalog that I own and none of the models react the way the actual amp does, examples are the Fender High Power Tweed Twin, Deluxe Reverb, Marshall 50 Watt Plexi, and the 4x10 Bassman. In terms of the captures or what they call the Neural Capture, I have only made a few captures since I just got the unit. I am sure I will get better at capturing stuff but the captures I have done, they're just OK. I have personally not used the Kemper or the Line 6 Helix. Bottom line, I think I am still the old fashioned way.
Can i profile an amp with overdrive, distortion, reverb, delay, chorus, flanger, compressor, noise gate etc all at once with it?
Can you suggest any really good choices of people to buy Tonex captures from? You know, the ones that know what they are doing. I really wish MBritt made Tonex captures. :)
I agree with everything you've said, Barry .... profiling done at the computer, without the need for proprietary hardware, is the future. ToneX is the first to truly do this, and now all the others will have to follow suit to stay profitable. No way in this world would I go out now, today, and buy a Kemper again, or an Axe-FX, etc. when I can get awesome, awesome tones from my computer (the same computer that houses all my other favorite programs that I use daily) with ToneX. Who cares if they're not 100% accurate ..... they're close enough that 99.999% of anyone listening could not tell the difference between the ToneX and the real thing, and for a fraction of the cost.
Great video!! Man, I just bought one online about 10 minutes before I saw this video. Was getting hyped up and checking more out about it on YT. Then saw this video description and thought oh !@#$%!! What did I just do!! Do I have enough time to cancel my order? 🤣 Thanks a bunch for all this invaluable info on all of this 🙂
I love the helix. These sounds sound and feel better than anything I got out of the helix. I also prefer this to the QC or Kemper.
And a new guitar player can get kemper level and above sounds FOR FREE.
I don’t know if its a bug but I could use any free user preset without the sound by just using the version in a Reaper project.
We are blessed. This is everything I prayed for when I was a teen and couldn’t afford these modelers. Thank you IK.
Amen! Maybe Kemper will lower their prices!
11:15 I don't have a Kemper, so I can't speak to the Kemper profiles, but his Helix effects are pretty great honestly.
Hard to find one right now…any eta on availability?
😂 I still own, and use, a DVD player!
😜
I am now interested in the fact that the sound obtained from ToneX changes depending on whether it is connected to a solid state amp, a hybrid amp or a clean channel high gain amplifier? I read somewhere that it is best to use it on something that looks like Kemper Kabinet systems, so that you can feel the true color that ToneX gives. I had a similar problem earlier with the GT-10 from Boss
Yes, it’s best to use a FRFR powered speaker. Full Range Flat Response, to get the most accurate tone. Same as listening through a great pair of studio monitors.
Hello. To meet your challenge, I've owned two RME interfaces and loved them both. I still have them shelved collecting dust. The first was the Multi face with the Stienberg name on it with a (pcie) card with a connection for a firewire "but it wasn't firewire". It might still work but you had to choose PC or Mac upon purchase. I'm a Mac guy now. The second... Fireface 800 witch after time Shorted out with lights flashing, wouldn't stay on. As I did a little research I found that this was not so uncommon for this model. Over all I think it was a very good interface and would not shy away from RME if I needed an interface. BTW Stienberg UR 44 serves my needs for now.
The ToneX sounds great and I would use it if the features met my needs. I use modelers and profilers because of their convenience. I can have my entire rig in one box, plug it into the board and I'm ready to go. If it doesn't have all the effects I use, then I have bring my pedal board also. If my goal is to avoid lugging my amp and pedal board to gigs, this unit simply doesn't get it done, regardless of where the effects land in the chain or if it has a loop or not. For me, ToneX would be a better fit if it had effects like the Fractal or Helix even if it required a higher price point. I guess thats why these devices aren't one size fits all.
Barry - you suggested in your other video that amplifiers would be going away...but what will be profiled when all the amps are gone?
Other profilers, LOL!
What is your opinion on captures and IRs by Amalgam Captures?
Total newby to modelers and profilers. My question is: you said all effects (in the studio, at least?) go AFTER the guitar is recorded. Is that true for live playing also, or is that for "studio only"? Could the ToneX Pedal function well with all "typical" effects (delays, reverbs, modulation, etc.) after the pedal? Thank you, great tutorial. Like and Subscribed.
The bloopers are always the most fun part of any video. They show viewers what it takes to make a great video like this one. I watched the whole thing and liked it. By the way, I have a quick question. Do you find all modeling sounds a bit compressed even though the compressor is off? Do you still own the Tonex? Do you still like it?
I got it a few days ago and spent time with it, and I'm not sure if I want to keep it. There are two main issues: 1. The compression issue. 2. I still can't figure out why I can't find the ToneNet presets I saved when I search under the ToneNet tab in the Tonex software.
It seems like I'm spending too much time on the computer and not enough time enjoying playing. I would love to hear your thoughts.
Remember the capture is king. Try some but done well respected profilers. Think of it like this, you have two separate people that will use the same camera, one takes a picture out of focus and not properly exposed, the other takes an incredibly sharp photo. Both are using the same camera.
@BarryJohns Yes makes sense. Do you still like it, or have you found something that works better and easier? Also, what about the ToneNet issue I mentioned in regard to the Tonex?
And that's why i sent mine back! A Rabbithole of finding the right Profiles/Captures and i don't profile myself my own Amps - because i don't need and own (except one that is just mostly acting as a sidedesk or table) any.
Barry,do you have any thoughts about amp profiling becoming open source? Steve acks, neural amp modeler community is growing fast and the profiling is completely free, using cloud computing to do the ai heavy lifting as well as more accurate than Tonex.
I plan to check that out!
On the post processing and the photograph analogy you gave. It's the same. Don't take pictures using digital zoom and effects on your camera because you'll be stuck with that particular result. If you want to zoom and add effects you better do that on your PC with some program, afterwards. And if you can, take pictures in RAW format so you don't loose anything to the JPEG compression.
Quad cortex has got it right. It does everything in one easy to use neat box. Just built a nice fly rig with it. It’s just a Pedaltrain junior classic. Jim Dunlop expression pedal and cioks dc7 for clean power
I don’t disagree at all, however it’s over 3 times the cost of this unit. A lot of folks can’t afford the Quad Cortex.
It does not sound as good as Tonex.
I am going to go out on a limb here and say that the vast majority of consumers don't care about profiling or accuracy of this control or that. Who are all these people with a room full of tube amps that they want to sit there learning how to profile? I think it's about a dozen UA-camrs. Why doesn't the manufacturer just do that with a million dollars worth of gear for you?
Most people want fantastic sounding, usable presets, and lots of them, out of the box. And nobody really gives it to them.
Pro Tip if you want to capture the amp as it sounds to your ears, grab a measurement microphone and do your captures with that, because the 2 things that influence an amps sound the most are #1 the speaker and #2 the Microphone a measurement mic is flat and will basically take the microphone out of the equation. IK Multimedia, Behringer, Presonus and DBX make very affordable measurement microphones. I think the DBX is like $85, the Behringer is $50, the IK measurement mic is $100 but if you have jam points and buy direct you can save up to $35 off which would make it only $65. Cheers.
Hum, interesting…..
@@BarryJohns Inexperienced guitarists doing captures will hear an amp in a room and the change in color from the microphone and think they did something wrong or that the software is bad at capturing what they hear. The measurement mic takes that out of the equation as much as it can, it isn't perfect but will give them a sound closer to what their ears hear in the room. Where as someone like yourself or myself who have worked in studios for decades will understand why, many people new to this may not understand why the mic is making a big impact on the overall sound. Cheers!!
Ahh, just what are you saying? I have a DVD player. I haven’t used it in a few years but I’ve got it…somewhere
😜
Uh, my amp knobs stay in the exact same positions. I hardly ever move them from the sweet spot. If I do move them it's only slightly. So captures would work fine for me.
Yes!
@@BarryJohns I may have to give the Tonex X pedal a shot then. I don't want to menu dive too much I just need an amp modeler to add to my existing pedalboard.
There are 3 standards of ethernet audio wire systems. I am really curious to hear your experience with them.
Avid is now aiming at 32 bit audio conversion and 64bit precision calculation. That makes it quite the platform. Could you think of a test that could show it's use or maybe uselessness of this move?
imho, it won't make any significant? noticeable difference. It is simply a marketing strategy. Even the veteran audio engineer won't be able to tell the difference (32vs64bit). While yes, higher the bit number, the more dynamic ranges you could capture. But even at 32bits, let alone 24, it is more than enough for the systems that we use to listen. Also, most, if not all, of modern & contemporary music productions compress and limit the crap out of music.
@@randomhobby4310 yes. But technically it is interesting. We can hear distortion. I have had a very expensive audio system by Bag End. Because it could do 8 hz there was less distortion in the mid frequencies.
We all could hear it when cd's brought us signals without the crackling of dust in grooves.
So conversion in 16 bit vs 24 bit... usually you cannot hear it. But when you combine processing and 96 khz in 64 bit. May be.
Dear Barry: Sir you mentioned the wisdom of not using "effects" recording so that they could be applied latter in production ...fine... HOWEVER many of us use "key off" how the effects are sounding and use this as inspiration to pull off good "takes" particularly when using delay as a rhythmical involved guitar sound (using tap tempo and all) Would it not be the "Best of both worlds" to record /print dry (and you can re-amp later) BUT still monitor the effects (in the headphones) a sort of "Record dry but monitor "wet" strategy?
Edit previous reply, the way you are doing it is exactly the way I’d do it, what I was referring to was printing the guitar wet.
Glad I never could afford the Kemper or the AxeFX. I now own a ToneX Pedal.
We all thank Christoph Kemper for liquid profiles. 😊
Do you like SpectreDigitalSound? Gary has shown so much about recording guitars. I just want to know what you think of his channel.
Do you mean Glenn?
He’s great if you’re waiting for someone to have an aneurism. As far as gear advice, I’d take him with a grain of salt. He despised and shit talked drum samples until he started selling them.
Good God, thank you. The first time I heard someone really explain modeling (not a fan) versus profiling (fan). It would be nice if there is a bit more acceptance some prefer one over the other, because we all hear different. And hear quality different (i.e., I to my younger self). To me, until now, modeling never convinced. Profiling did. Then again, a great player will sound great, whatever he uses.
Glad it was helpful!
@@BarryJohns Honestly, I was always confused why people constantly mix up modeling and profiling. Or treat it as the same. I mean, seriously? I stopped being part of dicussions. Now finally hearing someone spelling it out.... refreshing.
For me ToneX is must because it has some good sounds which are really playable for a tube guy. Bass end is problematic but ToneX Max was today 88€ at Thomann. For that price even one playable tone of those 1000 profiles made it worth it. Luckily I found it. Idea is to get a serious and simple tool to jam riffs directly to Cubase track. Then the track is captured and it can be reamped with real amp. Some profiles have been made professionally meaning without and with cab. Both amp and cab can be turned off and on and a cab can be locked and amp changed.
Does your fridge has built in effects on it?
Of course!
Just curious, why do you never play or demo any music that you record or gear that you use (outboard, instruments, or otherwise)?
Ive got plenty of videos where I do that.
@@BarryJohns My apologies. I guess I missed them. I've only ever seen videos where you've talked about gear and software but never demoed any. I'll have to look further back. Thanks!
Unrelated: do you plan to build an Atmos rig? Curious to see how many folks in the community consider this a must have now that Apple and Spotify and automobiles are moving that direction.
Good question, I honestly don’t know yet. This will be hard for most home studios to adjust to as the expense is so great. It will likely put it out of reach for many if not most. This is where Steven Slate can make a huge impact with his VSX headphones which I’m testing for an upcoming review, when/if he can implement Atmos into them.
currently have 3 critical issues with the Tonex Pedal that prevent its full use on stage:
1 Lack of routing and mixer functionality. The pedal has two unbalanced (which is unfortunate) outputs that function as a single sound source. It's not possible to simply adjust the volumes of these channels independently.
2 This pedal can send a DI signal in interface mode, but it cannot do so on the analog outputs. Furthermore, you cannot simply disable the CAB on one of the outputs. Therefore, on stage, you cannot simultaneously connect to a guitar amplifier with a cabinet and a mixer console. You would have to either disable the built-in cabsim and use external pedals or not use the guitar amplifier. Unfortunately, for me, this pedal is just a cool toy at the moment, and nothing more. On stage, I continue to use the Darkglass Microtubes Infinity.
3 There is no possibility to mix the DI signal and the chain (amp cabsim)or any part of it.
I have an FM3 and a QuadCortex. Both are great for what they do. IK Multimedia really made a bad marketing decision not including delay AND reverb. I get the whole amp paradigm. But why not add a few bucks to the price and include delay? The one in all devices are expensive for sure. But I remember seeing the ToneX and had decided to buy one until I discovered it had reverb but no delay. If they add it later I'll buy one, but not until then.
I don’t think adding a delay would make it more “special”. To me not adding fx loop was a huge mistake :/ , I bought two toneX pedals last month I like it it sounds incredible but I really wish they have fx loop for my strymons since I like using wet fx before and after the amp
Ah shiiit theres no fxloop???
Just got the Tonex. Spent hours comparing it against my real amps. It's very close but still a bit two-dimensional compared to my real amps. Also many of the hi gain captures have an annoying digital fizz that grates on my ears. The Tonex is an amazing tool for immediate results--BUT--at the same time I find it overwhelming to have hundreds of choices. I liked it better when I just had three really good amps to choose from.
Remember the profile is only as good as the way it was profiled. The ToneX makes no sounds on its own.
What most of us do after we find the typical profiles we would use often is only put those on the ToneX as an example. You don’t have to leave a ton on there.
Back to profiles, think of it this way, you record a song with a beginner engineer in his bedroom studio, would you expect that to be the same as record on of the song in one of the best studios with an engineer with an amazing track record? That’s the way profiles are. You have to find the ones that are great, which is why many folks end up buying them from people who mastered the process.
@@BarryJohns Thanks for your thoughtful reply, Barry, I only used the stock profiles that came with the pedal. I vowed not to use the software because I don't want to go down a rabbit hole of unlimited choices. I experienced that with Two Notes software and Kemper. I got rid of all that because too many choices prevents me from making music. Also, the software is really a giant shopping mall where everything costs more money. I'm selling my Tonex and sticking with three amps, two cabs and a two notes captor 8.
@@briancoyne6700 I certainly understand and agree!
I bought a lot of Michael Britt…I much prefer Tone Junkie….
I use a couple of Tone Junkie profiles and they sound great. Each to his own I guess
I haven’t purchased it, but the demo of Tone Junkies Purple Marshall sounds great. I would love to buy an M Britt profile if he makes something for Tonex
What's confusing to me is IKMultimedia does not use the term profiler anywhere in their product description. Even Sweetwater's product description does not mention profiler. AI-modeling is the term IKMultimedia uses. Whatever that is. If I go to the Tonex pedal product page and search for the word "profile".. I see nothing. Search for "model" and the word shows up 40 times. So it's puzzling to me why the product description would seemingly be inaccurate. Since modeling and profiling are different things those two words are not interchangeable. Unless I'm doubly confused.
They don’t, consider profiler like a xerox copier, the were the first to invent the tech, so it became a household name even though many different manufacturers make copiers.
@@BarryJohns Got it. Thank you for the clarification.
*topic at hand
I was extremely disappointed when avid stopped supporting my Eleven rack
Tone Junkie has a great reputation for Kemper Profiles so I don't know why you would say his profiles are blah
I am sorry but.. is this a "yay" or nay for tone x? You're going on and on and on and I still don't know if you like this thing.. You said its gonna kill the kemper, then said its going for sale.
I’m dying here, did you watch the video? This video is not all about the ToneX, it’s making sure that users understand how all this works. If you buy one, you will quickly understand what I’m saying. For the record the ToneX, like the Kemper has no sound whatsoever, none. It’s all about the profiles that you or others do. That’s and that alone is the sound. It’s like DVD is only a player, the movie you put into it is the quality of the video and the movie. Does that makes sense?
@@BarryJohns Sorry I think I was confused because you said yours is up for sale. Sounds like you were talking about kemper.
You and Glenn from Spectre Studios should start a band.
I’m up for it!
@@BarryJohns Also, you and Glenn are my faves. Keep up with the guitar player myth busting!
Everyone searches the internet for pictures of famous guitar players' amp setups, cabinets and microphone locations, and the guitars they use. It's like the most accurate profile possible to copy. there's nothing wrong with that. So once you have your favorite sound set, capturing that tone is the last step. Regarding the profile capture machines, I think they will have the same problem of post-processing. but it must be admitted that they will be more accurate than each other at some point. most importantly, do you trust your ears or your wallet? it can't make your music better even with a lot of gear, dear
The thing that you forgot to mention is that in the Tonex there are also people who a "modeling" pedals (no mic, cabinet are needed) and for this, you don't need to be an expert. The second thing is that you need some knowledges but don't need to be a scientist to place a microphone in front of a cabinet. to give a concrete example, you can't compare somebody that put a mic in front of a cabinet and a hardware or software designer. it's not the same level. A 12 YO boy can do a fantastic job at home by modeling/profiling his amp like a 12 YO boy can play better guitar than me practicing for 30 YO. This Michael Britt is probably good but as far as you're happy with the sound... you know... at the end of the day, it's your fingers that are getting the most of it.
The narrative of a profiler "captures a real amp" has been around since the classic Kemper vs Fractal arguments. People say that as if a profiler is some magic box that soul sucks an amps tone and voila its a tube amp in a box. Profiling is a digital process its not magic. The kemper had a bunch of models under the hood and the profiling aspect is an intelligent way of dialing in those amp models to sound and react like the tube amp. So by that same logic if a person was extremely good at dialling in a modeller, thats what the Kemper is doing.
ToneX, NAM, Quad Cortex and GuitarML Proteus are all using AI based machine learning models to create a profile. These listen to the way the amp sounds and reacts and then builds an AI model of that amp. It's not perfect it has its own characteristics but it certainly does a good job.
The tech at fractal audio is component level emulation, they are literally emulating circuit board, capacitors, transistors the works. When it all comes together that's your faithful component based emulation. So at a really high level the current landscape is AI based profiling vs Human coded component based amp emulation. I would argue the component based one is more accurate but im sure as time goes on, we give AI another 2-10 years things will be different.
I’m not saying I disagree, but I think you’ve completely missed the point of the video. It’s really about don’t expect to turn knobs on the unit and have it react the same way as your amp. That’s all, the background was to explain why.
@@BarryJohns Great video Barry, always love your talks! Yeah I was just splitting hairs on that specific wording about "profiling'
I actually thought you were going to have some 'hot take' but totally on point imo.
if ifs and buts were candy and nuts we would all have a merry christmas.dont need no reamp.i agree not to put delay on tape.put it in the master mix.but either record the guitar just like it is or record it direct and git a sansamp and a digitech or v:amp.dont tel them what you used just let them hear it
Update since you made this video.
Kemper now has Liquid Profiling.
Profile an amp, add the new Liquid Amp Model and the Gain and EQ tonestack are now modelled to respond and act exactly like the original amp.
The QC and ToneX can't do that!
For Kemper the snapshot days are over!
Load the new 10.0 Kemper firmware and try the three free Liquid Profile packs!
It’s why I e kept my Kemper.
Profiling seems less attractive than modeling considering your stuck with what the guys sets the amp at when he profiles it, it takes the personal tweaking fun out of it. ( probably still get one though..lol)
Kill the Kemper, I don't think so! Guess you don't mind how long it takes to make a good profile with ToneX. Hardly any effects come with the ToneX Pedal. It does have a great price point, but I'll still be holding onto my Kemper Rack! I do predict that IK Multimedia will be coming out with a more expensive pedal that will have all the bells and whistles!
You may be one of the very few that actually make profiles with the Kemper. The vast majority don’t, they buy them, so keep that in mind.
@@BarryJohns : I also think Kemper will be countering these developments with something new. Kemper has had an amazing run (11 years?) with the profiler and it still sounds amazing! Way ahead of its time!
So…no one can code a predictive program that can predict the effect of various things on the tones? Hard to imagine. Maybe too costly? This is what sounds like at x…at y it is this…program the curve of that journey? No?
latency latency latency
The only consideration for me at the moment is the lack of an effects loop.
That’s not what this is, the output is the effect loop.
@@BarryJohns So it's basically like an effects pedal?
@@blackie75 Yes. Order matters ofc, but it doesn't need an fx loop.
Those profilers you like less probably use a guitar or guitars with different pickup than yours when they profiled their amp. Also, they might be 20 years younger (or even older) found out that guys in their 20s like a lot more bass than I do, do they really hear this much high end? probably.
Could be.
Human ears deteriorate rapidly with age, both in volume threshold (sensitivity to amplitude). Typically after 50 yrs-old we loose anywhere from 10dB - 40dB in sensitivity), frequency span (shortening of audible frequencies' range from both ends low + high frequencies) & brain capacity to accurately identify/process specific frequencies & pitch. A normal 20 years old, logically needs less bass, less high frequencies and less volume than older people, but we all know that they want the opposite, because...hormones! It's not exciting if it isn't stupidly loud, moronically bass-y and/or the idiotically high pitched solos aren't in there. And never forget that if you aren't a Metalhead, well then you suck per definition. :D
I’ve worked in film. I’ve worked with expensive equipment with expensive people and have done expensive jobs. I worked on the biggest movies in the world with James Cameron, Peter Jackson and Lucas. I don’t agree with what you say about expensive equipment, etc. There are many people that can make quality products with much less. Tone is just that, tone. It doesn’t matter if it was captured incorrectly or with good equipment. If it sounds good, then it is good. Tone junkies does have good captures regardless of what equipment they may use. I don’t even care what equipment they use as long as the result is good.. If it is that important to get accuracy, then buy the amp if you have tons of money to throw around. That tonex pedal is less than 400 dollars. Im sure you didnt expect it to be expensive to sound good.
I can’t tell if people are mad because it does a pretty good job or because the average musician can afford it. The Tonex is a win for the majority of us.
Are you sure Fractal's business has suffered since the Helix came out? I think modeling exploded, in general, and Fractal's business has been doing just fine throughout....at least I see no evidence that Fractal's business has been negatively impacted. They keep releasing new products and keep developing their software apace. Also, Fractal plays in all price points fro $1000 to $2500...so the price differential you mention hasn't been true since the AX8 was released.
Its funny too how people conquest for old tones.... instead of new ones! They're like, "Finally! A dumble in my living room!" Who cares? People are out there starting the next KoRn! The next big thing, often with tones crafted by dying batteries in guitar pedals, is right around the corner, and someone feels they have a leg up on everyone with a capture of an amp even famous bands don't use. Spend less time tone conquesting and more time finding the perfect dying battery... Err, it suppose that's the same thing...
Lets be real here. If your using and listening to music through a computer its all just ones and zeros copy of everything. The computer makes life convenient for video and audio applications BUT ultimately they are nothing more than copies of originals. Think of a picture using the most high tech camera, lens and digital printer of a Picasso as to the original painting. Sure the binary computations can fool the brain into believing it's just as good, but it's NOT. Being philosophical here, us the species, the human race is facing extinction of everything that is biologically natural by a digital BINARY COPY should have all of us rethinking if we want to continue to go down this path of destruction of everything natural just for the sake of convenience. If art imitates life and the calculations of a computer imitates art, then life itself becomes a cheap copy of itself. We are enslaving ourselves and don't even understand why for the sake of convenience. The best thing that can happen to our species is an emp blast from the sun to put this gift of life at our biological level back into perspective. We forget there is a whole other life existening at the biological level that is being threatened by us choosing to ignore it for convenience. Mark my words our overlords will enslave the human race with this technology. It's already underway as I write this out on my digital slave device. Smartphone. They're always recording and monitoring us with this tech. So much so it will ultimately end our species.