I think it’s really cool how you break down your water adds , to grams , no one likes to give out their secret sauce , it’s so helpful . I’ll give this one a try on one of my next hazies . Cheers !!
@@TheApartmentBrewermight sound like a crazy question but if you cold crash it to 55 degrees wouldnt that put the yeast back to dormant? Oh also love your videos the witber is amazing
I made basically this same beer 5 weeks ago. It came out spectacularly… I love the New Zealand hops. Had our home brew name been picked from TreeHouse, this was going to be what we submitted. I did in fact put hops in at the 60 minute mark. Great video!
I like this ferment and dry hopping schedule. I started doing something very similar after hearing Vinnie Cilurzo talking about dry hopping a small amount early. Enzymes in the hop matter trigger some conversion of sugars that can then be fermented causing hop creep. By triggering this early the fermentation can clean that up, then you soft crash. Then comes the big dry hop charge, and I have had good results doing that with hop bong over 2 consecutive days and rousing with CO2. So basically 50 grams day 2-3 then 7 days ferment and soft crash, dump cone, dry hop 150 grams and rouse, dry hop 150 grams and rouse leave 48 hours then cold crash. Preassure transfer to keg and that sucker will not go stale for months. Get a Fermzilla if stainless preassure fermenters are too expensive. Keep oxygen out at all cost. Single best advice I can give.
Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge, time, and passion for beer and beer brewing. You have really helped me out as a home brewer. Every beer of yours I have brewed people love. The knowledge I have gained from your videos has saved me time and money. Thanks again and keep up the good work. Also in my opinion a deep dive into yeast, and conditioning methods available to/for homebrewers who DO NOT have temperature control would be AWESOME!!! Just sayin.😊
I made a hazy pale ale for my brother for his birthday with a lot of new zealand hops! Man that looks crush-able. Can someone please make this a Scratch and Drink
I just did a batch of hazy with 1.5 oz of centennial in the mash, and used nottingham in the ferm, 12.5 oz total hop mass, between whirpool & dry hop, on krausen, and I gotta tell you, it turned out wonderfully. Alot of hints that some bio transformation went down, on the palate.
Thank you for the break down! This is such a great informative video! My standard hazy water profile is similar to what you used, except I use lower Na. I might push that up now after watching your video and see how that works out. I've never tried mash hopping before and want to give this a shot as well. I have some Omega helio gazer yeast coming in the mail this week and will be mash hopping with them to see how those wonderful thiols come out.
Glad you enjoyed the video so much! I think a little extra sodium can help out a lot with the mouthfeel. Pair the mash hops with helio gazer and you have a thiol explosion!
The quality of the videos are getting better and better👏🏻 My suggestion; the malts recipe part of the video, don’t use plastic cup, instead use a better quality cup.. And the hop recipe part, put the glass to the left 1/3rd of the frame, pour from the 2/3rd side, and place the hop package to the 2/3rd side of the frame.. Might look better😄☺️
Sounds great! Maybe a video for down the road could be another New Zealand pilsner with these more fruit forward hops (and maybe lunar crush if you really want to push thiols).
Angry fermentation on Day 2 (using Lallemand Verdant IPA yeast)... had to swap out my blowtie with a full-on blowoff tube and flask of santizer solution!
Sure, thats one way, but you would certainly lose hop character as well if oxidized. Bright orange color in my case would turn purply/brown color still.
I enjoy hazy ipa and I am seeking advice on preserving hop flavor in IPA. I am reaching out to seek your expertise regarding an issue I have encountered with my recent brews. Here is a brief overview of my brewing process: 1. I ferment in a closed system to avoid oxygen exposure. 2. I use a sous vide magnet to dry hop. 3. I allow fermentation to proceed at a normal timeframe. 4. Upon finishing fermentation, the hop flavor is excellent. 5. I pressure transfer the beer into CO2-purged kegs. 6. However, after the transfer, the hop flavor seems to disappear. I am puzzled by this issue and would greatly appreciate any advice or insights you could provide on what might be going wrong and how I can preserve the hop flavor through to the final product. Thank you very much in advance and please keep making great videos!!!
Are you dry hopping early on in fermentation or after or both? Sometimes fermentation CO2 can strip away a lot of the character if only an early dry hop is used. Could also be that you are tasting more suspended hop particles in fermentation and then once the keg has sat cold for a while all that will drop to the bottom - this isn't necessarily linked to haze dropping out but if that is also happening that will influence the flavor as well. Maybe explore a 2nd dry hop post fermentation (or shifting your dry hop to post-fermentation), increasing your dry hopping rates or focusing on creating a more stable haze. Sounds to me like you've got a good handle on preventing oxygen exposure!
I literally just bottled my hazy NZIPA on Saturday with a recipe that is ridiculously close to this thanks to a Chat GPT generated grain bill and 10 oz of NZ Punch hop mix from CML homebrew in Scotland
I don't know if you said it (my english is really average), but with your top tier equipement, you should definitely rousing from the bottom once a day after 2nd dryhoping : better haze, better flavor spread, better intensity.
Would you doing a hop co2 extract experiment? I recently made a cold ipa with 25% corn flakes in the mash and 20g of Spectrum extract for my dry hop in the keg. Wow what a difference from previous versions with tradition pellets. I would be curious if others are having a great experience with Spectrum.
I should try playing around with that! Many pros will use it for getting that extra level of intensity. In this case I didn't because I was scaling down from a pro recipe for the previous video, and he didn't use any extracts.
Bought a pound of Rakau last year. Was great in a NZ Pils (mono hop), but I thought the intensity was a bit low for that hop. I didn't think it would punch enough for an IPA, might have to try what I have left in that style
Another great one dude! I just picked up a load of Nectaron and Motueka, looking forward to semi-trying your recipe and looking forward to trying this water profile! How does it compare to your Treehouse IPA you did last year? Question, which i've always wondered: how come bio-transformation/mid-fermentation hops are not affected by hop creep too?
I still think the TH brew was bit better but I seriously enjoyed this one quite a bit. My thoughts are that since hop creep is related to fermentation starting up again due to additional fermentables being unlocked by the enzymes in the hops, that doesn't affect early dry hopping since active fermentation is still going on with plenty of active yeast.
Hey Steve, Great continuation on your brew day at Twisted Fate. I would love to make this brew. Any suggestions on making hazy using my plastic Fermonster fermenter? I am afraid the soft crash will cause the dreaded suck back or collapse the fermenter if I put on the solid lid. Cheers!
Glad you enjoyed the video! If you have any way to hool a spunding valve up to the fermenter that would be my recommendation. If you put the lid on a day or so prior to the soft crash you should capture enough CO2 to avoid suckback
I'm definitely going to brew a version of this. I've recently switched to a no-chill method using a pressurised 6 gallon keg fermenter, I will be able to use sous vide magnets and some mesh bags to hold the dry hop additions, my question would be if I'm doing a no-chill brew, what should I do regarding the whirlpool additions? I'm conscious about putting wort that's cooled too much to sterilise the interior of the fermenter, if this is an issue? No issue to run star san around the keg before packaging really, but if it's something i don't need to do, I'd rather avoid it.
If you're doing no-chill, just dial back a bit on the whirlpool and you should be alright. The temperature of the wort drops pretty rapidly at first, and you are technically above pasteurization temperatures until below 150 or so.
No need for Asorbic acid if your mash hopping. Also dry hopping during active fermentation will reduce the haze. You’ll also blow off all the aromatics and flavor.
How does mash hopping reduce the risk of oxidation? I'm not familiar with that one. Same for the claim that early dry hopping reduces haze, can you explain? Haven't had problems with CO2 stripping out hop compounds, but I also closed up the fermenter after the first dry hop, as explained in the video.
Scott Janish talk about mash hopping in the new ipa book chapter 14. The hop polyphenols in the mash will bind to metals such as copper, manganese, and iron which can cause oxidation. I may be missing more information but this is what I remember. And to answer the haze stability question, their is plenty of great articles from Laura burns out of omega yeast labs that support timing of dry hop affecting haze. Dry hopping during active fermentation will actually promote less haze. Very active yeast in suspension will bind with hop polyphenols and drop them out of solution. For a murky milky haze it’s best to dry hop tail and of fermentation or post fermentation. I harvest yeast so I dry hop post fermentation. Also different hops are going to contribute to a different level of haze.
Great concept of scaling down commercial to home. How cool to see the Anvil High Precision Digital Scale measuring your water salts! How do you like using it? Have you used the timer feature? Cheers!
Some things to think about when going down the Dry-Hops route: "Due to the fact that no volatile oils are boiled off, the benefit to dry hopping is that the brewer can get as much flavor and aroma possible into the final beer. This can give your beer a floral hop essence and an intense flavor that is desirable in hoppy beer styles like pale ales and IPAs." "What dry hopping does not add to the beer is bitterness. Boiling is necessary to convert the alpha acids in the hops to iso-alpha acids to create bitterness." "The only other drawback to dry hopping is that some beer drinkers just don’t like the effect. They think it makes the beer taste “grassy” or “oily.” This method definitely gives a different kind of flavor and aroma than the traditional method of adding hops to the boil" Some brewers are also concerned about the hops introducing bacteria and other bio-contaminants when added post boil as they are not heat sanitised (rarely causes an issue with the final quality of the beer imo)
The tip about ascorbic acid in O2 sensitive brews is very interesting. That's the first I've heard of it in home brew. Thanks for the pointer, I have limited ability for closed transfer, but I love brewing a hop bomb from time to time. They generally start out good, but end up stale before the keg runs out. Maybe this could help.
genus brewing on yt is the biggest advocate for ascorbic acid. if you wanna learn more they have some more info about that and oxidation in general in brewing.
0.6g per gallon is the ratio I use, seems to work pretty well. I wouldn’t trust it to completely eliminate the need for closed transfers unfortunately. Of course I haven’t done any experiments but it’s cheap and doesn’t hurt to add imo
I learned it from Genus, there is a lot of content they have on it, but it does provide some nice cheap insurance. Adding it to the mash helps reduce reactive oxygen species (basically metals such as magnesium that are high in flaked grains, and are accelerants for oxidation later). Adding it with dry hops can help scrub oxygen in the fermenter and keg.
@@TheApartmentBrewer Hey, just revisiting this ascorbic acid thing. I just did a Hazy, which turned out wicked hazy, and I had intended on doing a closed transfer. Added 2 lbs flake rye, and 8 oz honey malt for depth of color, and added complexity. Tossed 2.5 g ascorbic in at 10 mins boil. dry hopped directly on the beer, at about 70% ferm. Mixed yeast nottingham/diamond both on starters. Gladly I did that, because my closed transfer did not go well. Had to go rambo and rack it, after the pick up tube clogged on the fermentasurus, everything turned over inside the vessel, after day 3 on dry hop. kept co2 running to blanket the transfer, but it was not ideal. Gravity went all the way 1.061 -1.010. Centennial, Waimea, Rakau, Vic secret. and Azacca. It kegged and crashing now, and tasted real good on sample, can't wait until it falls out, and carbs up. Thanks for the tip. Just a question on that, is tossing the vitamin C in at the end of boil still beneficial? Am I denaturing it in boil?
Ascorbic acid will denature almost instantly in the boil, it should be added at Packaging or in the mash, it's not too late to add some to the keg though
I find it so ironic that we make the same beers. In the past 5 brews, 3 of them I get mine in the fermenter and then on Monday I see your video of either the exact same one or a variant of the like beer. Maybe it’s coincidence but, to get ahead of this in the next two weeks it’s s going to be a Pilsner.
Great video! Just curious about the hop dropper, I recently got the clawhammer keg with the hop dropper and I'm wondering if it's recommended to sanitize the dropper before dry hopping? Cheers!
love the video as always. not transfering off the first round of hops, will that wreck the beer? with my set up I really don't have an easy way to dump (actually can't dump) or transfer. second I assume the grist is from Northern?
I also use a system that would make it difficult to transfer from. I've had good success just using the desired exposure time and adding the dry hops charge that many days before packaging. That works for any dry hopping that happens after active fermentation.
My real reason is thats what happened when I scaled down from the 7 bbl recipe. I think you could go higher for sure, but I'm not sure if that brings a risk of increased bitterness
Just as a note and general discussion I want to point out, that seemingly at least some breweries do not think of DDH as dry-hopping twice, but simply use the term to convey the amount used in the dry hop (source: ua-cam.com/video/6oJux2ZDEdI/v-deo.htmlsi=K5FG-qRmThY5NNOl). I've mainly given thoughts to this as a homebrewer as to eliminate oxygen ingress on low-tech systems, e.g. a plastic bucket. Taking to note the Tree House Style recipe and the advice given in those videos, I think for homebrewers seeking extra hoppiness or DDHness, simply upping the amount of hops you're willing to spend on a single dry hop charge is going to give you a lot.
Thanks for sharing! There is a point of diminishing returns on dry hop amounts though, and if you continue to just dump hops in, you can get some pretty rough hop burn.
@@TheApartmentBrewer Absolutely, the hop burn is definitely a thing to keep in mind too. It's not a particularly pleasant sensation. In this recipe you're at 14 g/L (9.5 oz per gallon), and that is just slightly less than the 15 g/L of the Tree House recipe. I think the 15 g/L hits just a bit below around the 4 lbs/barrel mark, and at those amounts it seems that breweries don't shy away from using the DDH term, whether or not they add them in multiple batches. I know some go way beyond this too, and while diminishing returns are still returns, at some point you have to question the overall effect and efficiency. A lot is left behind in the spent dry-hops and you do have quite a but of wort loss due to soggy hop matter, which is why hop extractions are such thrilling and tantalising products.
I stopped adding ascorbic acid to the mash because it strips the copper oxide off of my immersion chiller. I know this because any time I use ascorbic acid the copper coil comes out of the beer looking bright and shiny. I remember from "How to Brew" they say that this is a bad sign that you are extracting copper oxides into your beer.
Not sure of the science behind that reaction, but yes if that is happening to you I would recommend not continuing it. Adding it with dry hops should get the same effect
Thanks for the video. Any recommendation on how much ascorbic acid to add to the mash for a 5 gal batch? Would it be the same amount at dry hop as well in lieu of adding it to the mash?
Hi. I am glad it worked out for you. But if i crash to 15 c or lower on day 8 and dont let the temp rise after the 2nd dryhop for a full diacetyl rest... With that amount of hops... Omg. 100% i produce a diacetyl bomb, no matter which yeast, kveik excluded. Maybe i am just paranoid... Cool vid anyways
Great looking beer! I’ve been thinking about using some honey malt in my next NEIPA to see what adding some crystal does. Also, did you rouse the hops at all? I know that technique is used quite often on the pro side. Thanks!
@@FrankGenoBruno rousing, as I understand, is the process of blowing co2(usually through the racking arm) into the fermenter after adding the dry hops. The idea is to break up any clumps of hops and evenly distribute the hop matter throughout the beer. I’ve heard tale of homebrewers doing this by keg hopping and just shaking the keg as well. Scott Janish discusses it in his book and my understanding is that it’s been pretty widely adopted at pro breweries. I’ve done something similar blowing co2 through a straight dip tube in a keg and it’s worked well.
I didn't rouse them at all because I was following the same process as the full scale batch at Twisted Fate. I don't know how many people are doing that, I know for a fact Tree House doesn't either.
@@TheApartmentBrewer good to know. Obviously I don’t have hard numbers but I feel like every interview I read where a pro brewer is sharing their process, they seem to talk about it. Given the cooler dry hop temp I would worry about the hops just sinking to the bottom of the fermenter(hence the question) but sounds like that wasn’t an issue and then beer looks like it turned fantastic.
That looks gorgeous, want to brew that now. On my last Hazy i got a fantastic aroma but the flavour is kind of mineraly and I don't know why. I used RO water and went for 180 Cl / 90 SO. 21ppm Na. Strange
So are you allowing ferm temp to free rise after the 2nd dry hop? Before proceeding to another crash or are you keeping it soft crashed the whole way through?
At some point I would like to experiment with these yes, but this recipe did not contain any since it was a direct clone of the recipe from the brewery I was working with.
London Ale 3 has properties similar to ‘Thiolized’ yeasts, albeit in lesser quantities. So basically you should still unlock some bound thiols by using LA3, just not as many compared to yeasts created for this very purpose.
You do not need the yeast as well. The enzymes in the mash unbind the thiols. Thiolized yeast will do the same thing, just with dry hops and thiol precursors in certain malts and hops. Thiolized yeasts will take it up several notches though.
Question: Many top brewers are recommending shorter dry hop durations. If you made this again, would you still do the second dry hop for 6 days, or would you shorten it?
@rayfuller8517 awesome, and thank you for the support!! Unfortunately I don't have any early access content since I'm taking a break at the moment but I hope you enjoy it!
@@TheApartmentBrewer No problem! I have thoroughly enjoyed your videos throughout the past years and watching you evolve as a homebrewer. I've learned so much from you, and continue to do so. I, too, had to slow down a bit when my kids were young, so I totally understand.
Would you mind sharing how often you drop the cone from the big dry hop charge? On my last beer I had so much hop debris that the 2inch dump valve was getting clogged. Thanks dude!
On a commercial level, its easier to drop the cone a bunch. I personally never did at home, as i would be left with 3ish gallons in a 5 gallon batch. We drop the cone(Most of the time) Before we DH. The day after crashing, then the day before packaging. We also use a small filter to catch any hops that sneak through this process. Hope this helps.
Same for me too - every time. I've been hitting sub 5.1 on a few occasions now. It definitely showed in my last Kveik Voss batch... Next batch I'm just going to skip lactic acid completely.
I think it’s really cool how you break down your water adds , to grams , no one likes to give out their secret sauce , it’s so helpful . I’ll give this one a try on one of my next hazies . Cheers !!
Glad to help unveil some of those secrets! It doesn't make an enormous difference in every beer style, but it certainly does for this one!
@@TheApartmentBrewermight sound like a crazy question but if you cold crash it to 55 degrees wouldnt that put the yeast back to dormant? Oh also love your videos the witber is amazing
Yes, that way the yeast get out of the way and prevent hop creep. By day 7-8 all primary fermentation is complete
Looks delicious. I’m going to copy your water profile for our next hazy. Good stuff!
Awesome!! Yeah this is definitely the profile I prefer. It really gets that smooth fluffiness!
Thank you for the great content. From down here in South Africa.
Thank you so much!!
The production level of your videos is really looking good. It's always been solid, but you've taken it up a notch lately. Nicely done!
Thank you so much!
I made basically this same beer 5 weeks ago. It came out spectacularly… I love the New Zealand hops. Had our home brew name been picked from TreeHouse, this was going to be what we submitted. I did in fact put hops in at the 60 minute mark. Great video!
That is awesome!!
I like this ferment and dry hopping schedule. I started doing something very similar after hearing Vinnie Cilurzo talking about dry hopping a small amount early. Enzymes in the hop matter trigger some conversion of sugars that can then be fermented causing hop creep. By triggering this early the fermentation can clean that up, then you soft crash. Then comes the big dry hop charge, and I have had good results doing that with hop bong over 2 consecutive days and rousing with CO2. So basically 50 grams day 2-3 then 7 days ferment and soft crash, dump cone, dry hop 150 grams and rouse, dry hop 150 grams and rouse leave 48 hours then cold crash. Preassure transfer to keg and that sucker will not go stale for months.
Get a Fermzilla if stainless preassure fermenters are too expensive. Keep oxygen out at all cost. Single best advice I can give.
I am a fan so far!
I used to brew, and someday I may brew again, and in the meantime, your passion and presentation are really driving me toward that. Cheers.
I hope you go back to it, but I'm glad you enjoy the videos in the meantime!
Watching Steve making beer on a Sun?! Yes pls. Cheers
Glad you enjoyed the little schedule shakeup!
The best thing ever to happen to beer, Hazy all day!🍻👍
Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge, time, and passion for beer and beer brewing. You have really helped me out as a home brewer. Every beer of yours I have brewed people love. The knowledge I have gained from your videos has saved me time and money. Thanks again and keep up the good work. Also in my opinion a deep dive into yeast, and conditioning methods available to/for homebrewers who DO NOT have temperature control would be AWESOME!!! Just sayin.😊
Thank you so much for the superthanks!
Now that looks good
Thanks man!
I made a hazy pale ale for my brother for his birthday with a lot of new zealand hops!
Man that looks crush-able. Can someone please make this a Scratch and Drink
Haha that technology is classified! Glad you enjoyed the video!
Gold pure those videos,thank you bro ,blessings and regards from Mexico
Nice video.
This might be my next brew...
Looks delicious, I’ll have to try mash hopping soon!
I just did a batch of hazy with 1.5 oz of centennial in the mash, and used nottingham in the ferm, 12.5 oz total hop mass, between whirpool & dry hop, on krausen, and I gotta tell you, it turned out wonderfully. Alot of hints that some bio transformation went down, on the palate.
Love the color, and sounds delicious!
Thank you for the break down! This is such a great informative video! My standard hazy water profile is similar to what you used, except I use lower Na. I might push that up now after watching your video and see how that works out. I've never tried mash hopping before and want to give this a shot as well. I have some Omega helio gazer yeast coming in the mail this week and will be mash hopping with them to see how those wonderful thiols come out.
Glad you enjoyed the video so much! I think a little extra sodium can help out a lot with the mouthfeel. Pair the mash hops with helio gazer and you have a thiol explosion!
The quality of the videos are getting better and better👏🏻 My suggestion; the malts recipe part of the video, don’t use plastic cup, instead use a better quality cup.. And the hop recipe part, put the glass to the left 1/3rd of the frame, pour from the 2/3rd side, and place the hop package to the 2/3rd side of the frame.. Might look better😄☺️
Sounds great! Maybe a video for down the road could be another New Zealand pilsner with these more fruit forward hops (and maybe lunar crush if you really want to push thiols).
I wouldn't mind it, they are delicious beers!
Oh yeah you liked that one!
Absolutely one of my recent favorites!
Making this today!
Angry fermentation on Day 2 (using Lallemand Verdant IPA yeast)... had to swap out my blowtie with a full-on blowoff tube and flask of santizer solution!
Verdant IPA goes crazy!
@@TheApartmentBrewer Fermentation stuck at 1.020! Ugh!
Was able to get it down to 1.017 by pitching more yeast. OG was 1.070 --> 7% ABV
I think as a home brewer targeting yellow is a good way to know for certain you don’t have oxidation. I would replace the crystal with carapils.
Sure, thats one way, but you would certainly lose hop character as well if oxidized. Bright orange color in my case would turn purply/brown color still.
Although the style is not to my taste, it looks like you did a great job !!🍻
I enjoy hazy ipa and I am seeking advice on preserving hop flavor in IPA. I am reaching out to seek your expertise regarding an issue I have encountered with my recent brews.
Here is a brief overview of my brewing process:
1. I ferment in a closed system to avoid oxygen exposure.
2. I use a sous vide magnet to dry hop.
3. I allow fermentation to proceed at a normal timeframe.
4. Upon finishing fermentation, the hop flavor is excellent.
5. I pressure transfer the beer into CO2-purged kegs.
6. However, after the transfer, the hop flavor seems to disappear.
I am puzzled by this issue and would greatly appreciate any advice or insights you could provide on what might be going wrong and how I can preserve the hop flavor through to the final product.
Thank you very much in advance and please keep making great videos!!!
Are you dry hopping early on in fermentation or after or both? Sometimes fermentation CO2 can strip away a lot of the character if only an early dry hop is used. Could also be that you are tasting more suspended hop particles in fermentation and then once the keg has sat cold for a while all that will drop to the bottom - this isn't necessarily linked to haze dropping out but if that is also happening that will influence the flavor as well. Maybe explore a 2nd dry hop post fermentation (or shifting your dry hop to post-fermentation), increasing your dry hopping rates or focusing on creating a more stable haze. Sounds to me like you've got a good handle on preventing oxygen exposure!
I literally just bottled my hazy NZIPA on Saturday with a recipe that is ridiculously close to this thanks to a Chat GPT generated grain bill and 10 oz of NZ Punch hop mix from CML homebrew in Scotland
Nice!
I don't know if you said it (my english is really average), but with your top tier equipement, you should definitely rousing from the bottom once a day after 2nd dryhoping : better haze, better flavor spread, better intensity.
I could, but I wanted to copy the process exactly from the 7 bbl batch. They weren't rousing, so I chose not to as well.
@@TheApartmentBrewer ok thanks ! and great content as always 👍
I've often wondered about using crushed campden tablets when dry hopping post fermentation. Might help with oxidation.
Campden reduces chlorine/chloramine, not oxygen.
Certainly an alternative method to ascorbic acid, but can be bad for people sensitive to sulfites and can increase sulfur odors in the final beer.
Would you doing a hop co2 extract experiment? I recently made a cold ipa with 25% corn flakes in the mash and 20g of Spectrum extract for my dry hop in the keg. Wow what a difference from previous versions with tradition pellets. I would be curious if others are having a great experience with Spectrum.
I should try playing around with that! Many pros will use it for getting that extra level of intensity. In this case I didn't because I was scaling down from a pro recipe for the previous video, and he didn't use any extracts.
Bought a pound of Rakau last year. Was great in a NZ Pils (mono hop), but I thought the intensity was a bit low for that hop. I didn't think it would punch enough for an IPA, might have to try what I have left in that style
It's a stellar dry hop
Another great one dude! I just picked up a load of Nectaron and Motueka, looking forward to semi-trying your recipe and looking forward to trying this water profile! How does it compare to your Treehouse IPA you did last year? Question, which i've always wondered: how come bio-transformation/mid-fermentation hops are not affected by hop creep too?
I still think the TH brew was bit better but I seriously enjoyed this one quite a bit. My thoughts are that since hop creep is related to fermentation starting up again due to additional fermentables being unlocked by the enzymes in the hops, that doesn't affect early dry hopping since active fermentation is still going on with plenty of active yeast.
Cheers
Cheers!
Hey Steve, Great continuation on your brew day at Twisted Fate. I would love to make this brew. Any suggestions on making hazy using my plastic Fermonster fermenter? I am afraid the soft crash will cause the dreaded suck back or collapse the fermenter if I put on the solid lid. Cheers!
Glad you enjoyed the video! If you have any way to hool a spunding valve up to the fermenter that would be my recommendation. If you put the lid on a day or so prior to the soft crash you should capture enough CO2 to avoid suckback
I'm definitely going to brew a version of this. I've recently switched to a no-chill method using a pressurised 6 gallon keg fermenter, I will be able to use sous vide magnets and some mesh bags to hold the dry hop additions, my question would be if I'm doing a no-chill brew, what should I do regarding the whirlpool additions? I'm conscious about putting wort that's cooled too much to sterilise the interior of the fermenter, if this is an issue? No issue to run star san around the keg before packaging really, but if it's something i don't need to do, I'd rather avoid it.
If you're doing no-chill, just dial back a bit on the whirlpool and you should be alright. The temperature of the wort drops pretty rapidly at first, and you are technically above pasteurization temperatures until below 150 or so.
No need for Asorbic acid if your mash hopping. Also dry hopping during active fermentation will reduce the haze. You’ll also blow off all the aromatics and flavor.
Yes I’m thinking the same with regards to dry hopping. Probably do a single dry hop with 5 points left and spund.
How does mash hopping reduce the risk of oxidation? I'm not familiar with that one. Same for the claim that early dry hopping reduces haze, can you explain? Haven't had problems with CO2 stripping out hop compounds, but I also closed up the fermenter after the first dry hop, as explained in the video.
Scott Janish talk about mash hopping in the new ipa book chapter 14. The hop polyphenols in the mash will bind to metals such as copper, manganese, and iron which can cause oxidation. I may be missing more information but this is what I remember. And to answer the haze stability question, their is plenty of great articles from Laura burns out of omega yeast labs that support timing of dry hop affecting haze. Dry hopping during active fermentation will actually promote less haze. Very active yeast in suspension will bind with hop polyphenols and drop them out of solution. For a murky milky haze it’s best to dry hop tail and of fermentation or post fermentation. I harvest yeast so I dry hop post fermentation. Also different hops are going to contribute to a different level of haze.
Thanks for the info!
Hey Steve. Great video. Have you tried using Lotus hops yet? I hear it can make a nice creamsicle IPA 👀
Not yet!
love this video and the beer!! are those hop bines behind you at the end?
Nope just some random vine plant
Great concept of scaling down commercial to home. How cool to see the Anvil High Precision Digital Scale measuring your water salts! How do you like using it? Have you used the timer feature? Cheers!
Some things to think about when going down the Dry-Hops route:
"Due to the fact that no volatile oils are boiled off, the benefit to dry hopping is that the brewer can get as much flavor and aroma possible into the final beer. This can give your beer a floral hop essence and an intense flavor that is desirable in hoppy beer styles like pale ales and IPAs."
"What dry hopping does not add to the beer is bitterness. Boiling is necessary to convert the alpha acids in the hops to iso-alpha acids to create bitterness."
"The only other drawback to dry hopping is that some beer drinkers just don’t like the effect. They think it makes the beer taste “grassy” or “oily.” This method definitely gives a different kind of flavor and aroma than the traditional method of adding hops to the boil"
Some brewers are also concerned about the hops introducing bacteria and other bio-contaminants when added post boil as they are not heat sanitised (rarely causes an issue with the final quality of the beer imo)
Thanks for the info!
My last hazy fermented dry because of the massive hop charge/enzymes. I'll try a soft crash next time.
The tip about ascorbic acid in O2 sensitive brews is very interesting. That's the first I've heard of it in home brew. Thanks for the pointer, I have limited ability for closed transfer, but I love brewing a hop bomb from time to time. They generally start out good, but end up stale before the keg runs out. Maybe this could help.
genus brewing on yt is the biggest advocate for ascorbic acid. if you wanna learn more they have some more info about that and oxidation in general in brewing.
0.6g per gallon is the ratio I use, seems to work pretty well. I wouldn’t trust it to completely eliminate the need for closed transfers unfortunately. Of course I haven’t done any experiments but it’s cheap and doesn’t hurt to add imo
I learned it from Genus, there is a lot of content they have on it, but it does provide some nice cheap insurance. Adding it to the mash helps reduce reactive oxygen species (basically metals such as magnesium that are high in flaked grains, and are accelerants for oxidation later). Adding it with dry hops can help scrub oxygen in the fermenter and keg.
@@TheApartmentBrewer Hey, just revisiting this ascorbic acid thing. I just did a Hazy, which turned out wicked hazy, and I had intended on doing a closed transfer. Added 2 lbs flake rye, and 8 oz honey malt for depth of color, and added complexity. Tossed 2.5 g ascorbic in at 10 mins boil. dry hopped directly on the beer, at about 70% ferm. Mixed yeast nottingham/diamond both on starters. Gladly I did that, because my closed transfer did not go well. Had to go rambo and rack it, after the pick up tube clogged on the fermentasurus, everything turned over inside the vessel, after day 3 on dry hop. kept co2 running to blanket the transfer, but it was not ideal. Gravity went all the way 1.061 -1.010. Centennial, Waimea, Rakau, Vic secret. and Azacca. It kegged and crashing now, and tasted real good on sample, can't wait until it falls out, and carbs up. Thanks for the tip. Just a question on that, is tossing the vitamin C in at the end of boil still beneficial? Am I denaturing it in boil?
Ascorbic acid will denature almost instantly in the boil, it should be added at Packaging or in the mash, it's not too late to add some to the keg though
Great, informative vid. May I ask how much hops would u add at 10 minutes to get more flavour? Cheers!
Only about 5 IBU of each
A question, why did you boil for an hour if you didn't add any hops for bitterness?
Its not necessary in this case, but I prefer to do so to break out proteins and condense the wort enough.
I find it so ironic that we make the same beers. In the past 5 brews, 3 of them I get mine in the fermenter and then on Monday I see your video of either the exact same one or a variant of the like beer. Maybe it’s coincidence but, to get ahead of this in the next two weeks it’s s going to be a Pilsner.
Hoppy Amber
Dark mild
Now… This NEIPA.
GET OUT OF MY HEAD😂
So...I have a pilsner video publishing in two weeks...its been lagering since march haha
Great video! Just curious about the hop dropper, I recently got the clawhammer keg with the hop dropper and I'm wondering if it's recommended to sanitize the dropper before dry hopping?
Cheers!
Nah, you won't need to, just make sure its clean.
Any plans for making a beer with OYL-407
Vossa Nova?
Considering I just learned about this yeast from your comment, not yet, but sounds like a really cool yeast!
love the video as always. not transfering off the first round of hops, will that wreck the beer? with my set up I really don't have an easy way to dump (actually can't dump) or transfer. second I assume the grist is from Northern?
I also use a system that would make it difficult to transfer from. I've had good success just using the desired exposure time and adding the dry hops charge that many days before packaging. That works for any dry hopping that happens after active fermentation.
It wouldn't wreck the beer, but it could lead to excess grassy flavors
Is there a reason why only .25oz of Saaz in the mash? Would a full ounce bring too many thiols to the party?
My real reason is thats what happened when I scaled down from the 7 bbl recipe. I think you could go higher for sure, but I'm not sure if that brings a risk of increased bitterness
Just as a note and general discussion I want to point out, that seemingly at least some breweries do not think of DDH as dry-hopping twice, but simply use the term to convey the amount used in the dry hop (source: ua-cam.com/video/6oJux2ZDEdI/v-deo.htmlsi=K5FG-qRmThY5NNOl). I've mainly given thoughts to this as a homebrewer as to eliminate oxygen ingress on low-tech systems, e.g. a plastic bucket. Taking to note the Tree House Style recipe and the advice given in those videos, I think for homebrewers seeking extra hoppiness or DDHness, simply upping the amount of hops you're willing to spend on a single dry hop charge is going to give you a lot.
Thanks for sharing! There is a point of diminishing returns on dry hop amounts though, and if you continue to just dump hops in, you can get some pretty rough hop burn.
@@TheApartmentBrewer Absolutely, the hop burn is definitely a thing to keep in mind too. It's not a particularly pleasant sensation.
In this recipe you're at 14 g/L (9.5 oz per gallon), and that is just slightly less than the 15 g/L of the Tree House recipe. I think the 15 g/L hits just a bit below around the 4 lbs/barrel mark, and at those amounts it seems that breweries don't shy away from using the DDH term, whether or not they add them in multiple batches. I know some go way beyond this too, and while diminishing returns are still returns, at some point you have to question the overall effect and efficiency. A lot is left behind in the spent dry-hops and you do have quite a but of wort loss due to soggy hop matter, which is why hop extractions are such thrilling and tantalising products.
I stopped adding ascorbic acid to the mash because it strips the copper oxide off of my immersion chiller. I know this because any time I use ascorbic acid the copper coil comes out of the beer looking bright and shiny. I remember from "How to Brew" they say that this is a bad sign that you are extracting copper oxides into your beer.
Not sure of the science behind that reaction, but yes if that is happening to you I would recommend not continuing it. Adding it with dry hops should get the same effect
Any ideas how to substitute Nectaron? Would it make different to use Viking Malt´s Pilsner and Pale Ale malts?
Maltster subs are fine, Nectaron is a hard one to substitute, it really is a unique hop
Thanks for the video. Any recommendation on how much ascorbic acid to add to the mash for a 5 gal batch? Would it be the same amount at dry hop as well in lieu of adding it to the mash?
3-5g. You could add the same for a dry hop as well if you want to.
Hi. I am glad it worked out for you. But if i crash to 15 c or lower on day 8 and dont let the temp rise after the 2nd dryhop for a full diacetyl rest... With that amount of hops... Omg. 100% i produce a diacetyl bomb, no matter which yeast, kveik excluded. Maybe i am just paranoid... Cool vid anyways
Great looking beer! I’ve been thinking about using some honey malt in my next NEIPA to see what adding some crystal does. Also, did you rouse the hops at all? I know that technique is used quite often on the pro side. Thanks!
Can you elaborate on the concept of “rousing the hops”?
@@FrankGenoBruno rousing, as I understand, is the process of blowing co2(usually through the racking arm) into the fermenter after adding the dry hops. The idea is to break up any clumps of hops and evenly distribute the hop matter throughout the beer. I’ve heard tale of homebrewers doing this by keg hopping and just shaking the keg as well. Scott Janish discusses it in his book and my understanding is that it’s been pretty widely adopted at pro breweries. I’ve done something similar blowing co2 through a straight dip tube in a keg and it’s worked well.
I didn't rouse them at all because I was following the same process as the full scale batch at Twisted Fate. I don't know how many people are doing that, I know for a fact Tree House doesn't either.
@@TheApartmentBrewer good to know. Obviously I don’t have hard numbers but I feel like every interview I read where a pro brewer is sharing their process, they seem to talk about it. Given the cooler dry hop temp I would worry about the hops just sinking to the bottom of the fermenter(hence the question) but sounds like that wasn’t an issue and then beer looks like it turned fantastic.
It makes sense! I'll have to try it out next time
That looks gorgeous, want to brew that now. On my last Hazy i got a fantastic aroma but the flavour is kind of mineraly and I don't know why. I used RO water and went for 180 Cl / 90 SO. 21ppm Na. Strange
Maybe its a pH thing?
@@TheApartmentBrewergood idea, I'll check when I'm back home from Mallorca 😊
Do you not get a grassy flavor for dry hoping so long or something? 🤔
Nope, that is why I dump the hops from each round after 4 days. Plus on the second dry hop, cold temps help out a lot.
Oh yeah I see now, good thing I got a conical fermenter too but still have to get something to cool it
Steve: How much ascorbic acid for this batch would you recommend considering the 8.5 gal of total water?
3-5g has always been the sweet spot for me
So are you allowing ferm temp to free rise after the 2nd dry hop? Before proceeding to another crash or are you keeping it soft crashed the whole way through?
Kept it at the soft crash temp the whole time
Have you no plans for using flowable hop products Steve? I'm planning on using some to reduce loss to hop amounts in my next Hazy pale.
At some point I would like to experiment with these yes, but this recipe did not contain any since it was a direct clone of the recipe from the brewery I was working with.
You should have called it "New England IPA" with a line through England, and "Zealand" written in biro
I think the difference in opacity is from whirlfloc
Very well could be. It makes that transfer to fermenter through chiller so much easier though, and didn't drop the haze.
Also, I thought to unbind the bound thiols you produced with mash hopping, that you needed a yeast that unlocks them?
London Ale 3 has properties similar to ‘Thiolized’ yeasts, albeit in lesser quantities. So basically you should still unlock some bound thiols by using LA3, just not as many compared to yeasts created for this very purpose.
You do not need the yeast as well. The enzymes in the mash unbind the thiols. Thiolized yeast will do the same thing, just with dry hops and thiol precursors in certain malts and hops. Thiolized yeasts will take it up several notches though.
Nice video. Did you let the beer condition in the keg at room temp before chilling?
Nope, it was cold and carbonated right off the unitank so I went ahead and put it right into the kegerator
Question: Many top brewers are recommending shorter dry hop durations. If you made this again, would you still do the second dry hop for 6 days, or would you shorten it?
Second dry hop was not for 6 days, just 3. But to answer your question, I 100% have shifted to shorter dry hop durations, no more than 5 days.
@@TheApartmentBrewer Thanks for the quick feedback, Steve! I'm on day 2 of the 2nd dry hop and it looks amazing. I'll start the cold crash tomorrow.
BTW, just became a Patreon member! 🙂
@rayfuller8517 awesome, and thank you for the support!! Unfortunately I don't have any early access content since I'm taking a break at the moment but I hope you enjoy it!
@@TheApartmentBrewer No problem! I have thoroughly enjoyed your videos throughout the past years and watching you evolve as a homebrewer. I've learned so much from you, and continue to do so. I, too, had to slow down a bit when my kids were young, so I totally understand.
Would you mind sharing how often you drop the cone from the big dry hop charge? On my last beer I had so much hop debris that the 2inch dump valve was getting clogged. Thanks dude!
I dropped it four days after each dry hop charge. The second, bigger one was just a single dump before packaging.
On a commercial level, its easier to drop the cone a bunch. I personally never did at home, as i would be left with 3ish gallons in a 5 gallon batch. We drop the cone(Most of the time) Before we DH. The day after crashing, then the day before packaging. We also use a small filter to catch any hops that sneak through this process. Hope this helps.
@@twistedfatebrewing6306thanks much!
Would first wort hops have access to the enzymes and give you a similar result?
Nope, because by the time the FWH are added the enzymes (specifically Beta amylase) have been denatured.
I don’t understand how you have so few subscribers
Homebrewing is a small niche!
Are you using Brewfather water profile calculator for pH? I swear every time I use it my pH is off, usually too high, closer to 5.9.
It does the same for me
@@TheApartmentBrewer are you adjusting your pH based on previous batch experience or are you using an additional software? like bru'n water?
Mostly just previous experience. I think my water tends to run a bit more acidic than most
Same for me too - every time. I've been hitting sub 5.1 on a few occasions now. It definitely showed in my last Kveik Voss batch... Next batch I'm just going to skip lactic acid completely.
Saaz hop's can be swapped out with Riwaka.
Riwaka is Saaz hop's on steroids with more flavour 5 to 6AA.
Was fresh Riwaka season just gone 👌.
Riwaka is such a great hop!