Great video again Martin! Thanks a lot! I've tried many ways to dryhop but ended up preferring the CO2 purge method. I am fermenting in the Grainfather conical fermenters and added a ball lock port on the button valve. Together with the - indeed great - duotight connectors of kegland, I am able to now shoot CO2 into the vessel from the bottom. So I dry hop after 7 days (a few points before FG) and then cold crash down to 10 degrees C at the same time. I purge CO2 a few times per day for max 3 days on a row. And this leads to a enough movement of the hops in the beer without oxidation. I must say - you need to let the CO2 out from the top port of the vessel. Which I also modified with t-clamp to ball lock adaptor with a blow of tube and kegland duotight fitting. I love this method so much since it's quick, easy and so far brought me the best results. What do you think of this method? And what do YOU prefer? Cheers from 🇳🇱 Maarten 👋🏻
@@keithallen9054 @joeflores1580 sure thing! i've made a reel on my instagram account. go search for kamp__vuur and you'll find it. if not, let me know.
I would be curious, after making a lot of efforts to induce those hop-oils into the beer, for how long will they stay in ? What if after a week or two or three the hop oils just "wanish" from the keg? Will preserve hop-oils racking the beer in bottle instead of keg?
To keep the entire fermentation process as simple as possible I have always put my dry hops in when pitching yeast and left it there until bottling / kegging. You've given me food for thought on waiting till fermentation is close to done and dry hopping for a couple of days only. Maybe once I've dialled in consistency and I'm happy with all other aspects.
Great content! I think it would be great to extend upon this experiment by trying to add the dry hop during active fermentation/ high kräusen and leaving it in until kegged and one where it is added with short contact time.
I sometimes dry hop in the keg.. works like a charm. Can sit in the keg for 5/6 weeks. No problem at all. The beers I had people crave over the most had hops in the keg. 🤷🏻♂️ First two days some hop burn but that fades in a few days. If I get hop burns I know it is great after a few days. I find it funny the preference is always around 50/50. Whether the observation is significant or not. Scientification of subjectivity. Gotta love it. Cheers 🍻
Nice summary. I'd like to see an exbeeriment with a beer with standard dry hop vs beer where all the dry hop amounts were added to whirlpool charge (so no dry hop but same total hops).
I dry hop at high krausen and then again once it falls for three days. I use hop bags for each shot so I can pull the old hops out when I drop the new ones in. Works great for my setup and its quite simple to do.
I add dry hops when I reach the 50% mark of fermentation. I'm hoping the additional activity will drive off any oxygen that was introduced to the carboy. I take the Matt Brynildson/Firestone-Walker approach: 3 days. With this new theory about agitating and only dry hopping for one hour, maybe I'll add my hops earlier, but after a good kreusen layer forms and let the fermentation activity be the agitation. I will still leave in for 3 days. Thanks Martin.
Martin, great video. I have found 3-5 days ideal for dry hopping. More and it tastes grassy, less and it has minimal nose. I drop my dry hops into the beer when the FG is approaching within 4-5 gravity points of done. I have the Fermzilla 3.0 with the Hopbong. , works as advertised.
I know homebrewers that successfully use a small membrane pump to freshly dry hop fully carbonated and lagered beer for serving. The membrane pump is connected to the beer-out post of the keg and pumps through a small cylinder containing the dry hops and a filter screen. The output of the cylinder goes back to the other post of the keg. Of course the whole pump system is purged with CO2 before use. I'm also considering to try this method, since it also seems to minimize the losses due to dry hopping.
This is great Martin! Would love to know how a test how it would turn out for dry hopping during high krausen until FG is met vs dry hopping at the end of fermentation for 3 to 5 days.
For blond ale I dry hop once the SG has been stable for 2 days (Rapt Pill reading) I use pellets in a stainless steel mesh tea strainer. After 3 days of contact I chill to 6C which takes 2 days in the fermenter fridge. I then keg. Drink after about a month. No issues.
1hr cold dry hop at cold crash temp after cold crash smells amazing to me. Trick is to drop out the yeast first otherwise it drags down oils like a fining agent.
There has been plenty research done on that topic and most outcomes say, that dry hopping for a day or even some hours would be enough. Furthermore, the colder the faster you can extract certain fruity compounds as well and additionally limit hop creep. Therefore, I usually add my last dry hop 2-8h before bottling. The more fruity one wants his beer the shorter you should dry hop. At least your experiments have more or less the same outcome... ;-)
I usually keep hops for 3 days. However, I found a difference in taste when hops are landed from the top (like using hop bong) against hops purged from the bottom (like kegland fermzilla jar). Top-landed flavour is more constant in a batch.
Research suggests that the presence of yeast is a signifigant factor when weighing contact time. Essentially, if yeast is present when you dry hop, keep it short otherwise unwanted side effect occur which degrade hop aroma and flavor. On the flipside, if you've dumped all the yeast (once you've reached terminal), you have much more leeway with contact time because you no longer have hops interacting with the yeast.
I def notice far more harsh/grassy hop flavors when only large hopping @ day 1 or 2 for a West Coast IPA, requiring a much longer lagering time to reach that sweet spot for lingering bitterness/astringency. But I also feel some of that sharp intensity in the hop profile is 100% necessary for a good old Skool West Coast IPA. So now i do a smaller addition at day 1-2, and drop the second dry hop post cold crash 48 hrs before crashing.
Timely video! I have a Zymurgy magazine Pliny the Elder clone in my fermenter as I write this. I’m going with the 12-14 day dry hop schedule per the recipe but will try it differently next time. 🍻
@@Thegoatbirdman I transferred to a secondary before adding the first dry hop addition. I’ve never had a genuine Pliny the Elder to compare, but this is my second time brewing it and the first one came out great!
Great info ! Thank you Martin ! Have you experimented the effect of biotransformation when adding hops at the fermenter together with the yeast and how this compares to standard 3-4 days conventional dry hopping?
Great video! But I do think you missed an opportunity to test 24hours, as there are voices out there saying that the pellets (due to having their cell walls destroyed and having their enzymes ready avaiable) doesn't need more than 12 hours contact time (while 3-5days is more for hop cones). I haven't tested this myself and still have my dry-hop on a 3days schedule.
I'd love to look at making your own extract so to speak. Like take a cup of distilled water at your hops and hit them with a blender for a min. Then strain the slurry into your keg. Stir it up and see how it tastes/compares.
Great stuff Martin, I'd be interested in an experiment regarding temperature on the dry hop. I've heard dry hop hot, semi cold crash or dry hop after cold crash. I'd be interested to know the best practices.
Centennial might have added another variable to the test. This hop variety has a very high enzyme ratio, causing hop creep and impacting the FG. So the longer dry hop might have turned out with a lower FG, skewing the triangle test.
Longer dry hops also lead to a higher extraction of Polyphenols, which is not really wanted in your beer at this stage. We also need to consider that the point when we are adding the dry hops plays a major role. When fermentation is still active, the bitterness contribution of the Polyphenols is reduced. Active yeast will also give you more fruity aroma because more of the Mycren get carried out of the beer via the yeasts co2 production. On hot site additions the Mycren get boiled off.
It kind of makes sense that shorter dry hop times work just as well as longer dry hop times, especially with hop pellets being such small bits when they break apart in the beer. I wonder if there's a difference with whole cone hops? Like it would take longer to extract out hop compounds when the compounds have less surface area exposed to the beer? If I'm remembering correct, Russian River uses whole hop cones, so maybe that's why they use a longer dry hop time?
I have small corny kegs that I can use for small dry hop experiments. I add dry hop and purge the keg. Then just add the beer and I can get the fresh dry hop next day.
@@BirdieNumNum-x4p About a half of that. I used to dry hop with 40-60g in a 10 L batch. Now I just put 25g of cryo hops. That seems to do the trick for me at least. And this is what google says: "As a starting point for recipe formulation or modification, the estimated dosing rate of CRYO HOPS is 40-50% of hop pellets by weight."
Is this why some commercial breweries use a hop rocket so they can be done with the dry hop in a few hours or less on big fermenters making it more efficient?
Dry hop in keg at 15°C for 3 days. I just leave them in the keg until the it finishes, which is a few months later. Never had grassy flavours. Temperature is the key to a good dry hop
I have only done dry hop at 3-5 days and a second with some beers. You have me thinking though an stepping outside the box and trying some other durations.
Martin, I am going to swap out my large, ancient chest freezer for two smaller chest freezers to give me more flexibility for fermentation/cold crashing and corny storage what size would you consider to be optimum with these two freezers? Of course they will be temperature controlled by Inkbirds. Thanks
I would be curious, after making a lot of efforts to induce those hop-oils into the beer, for how long will they stay in ? What if after a week or two or three the hop oils just "wanish" from the keg? Will preserve hop-oils racking the beer in bottle instead of keg?
I have ruined a few beers by dry hopping for too long, leaving a grassy astringent flavour. After thinking back about the whole brew and fermentation, the only thing I could pin the flavour on was the length of dry hopping
I dry hop at room temperature. I tried 2, 3, 4 and 5 days multiple time. 2 days was underwhelming, kinda a waste of hops. Not sure I could distinguish 3 to 5 days even with the same recipe.
Tasting with only one participant, no matter how many times, can't be viewed as reliable data. Sensory panels do not work that way, and a solo participant can be blind to certain attributes. It'd also be more useful to conduct the dry hops for these trials when the beers have reached FG - the scrubbing affect of a mid ferment dry hop (ie 3 days in) versus dry hopping at terminal (ie 7 days in) would certainly impact the aroma and flavour of the two beers. Would like to see Brulosophy step their game up in terms of experiment design - you guys have been doing this for a while now. Isolate, control and emphasize variable difference outcomes!
I always dry hop for 3 days, any longer and it starts to lose the dankness I want. I have tried with just a day then cold crashing for 2 days, but i felt it wasn't as nosey as I'd like it, so back to 3 days dh and 2 days crash
I think a flaw with the first experiment and maybe a little with the second was that the long hop was added on day 3 and the second on day 11. Those are such different times in the fermentation process. What about different levels of biotransformation? That experiment needs to be done with hops added on the same day but taken away at different days.
If you can dry hop in 1 hour when agitating the beer. I wonder how long until someone finds a way to put an agitator in a fermenter or one you can attach and and use a pump. That's a whole weeks worth of fermenters that now you can bottle and brew more. I can see large scale breweries quickly adopting this method as beer sitting in fermenters isn't making them any money.
There are ultrasonic "cleaners" (for dishes, jewelry, veggies, etc) that are essentially the size of a tilt or similar that could easily be dropped into a fermenter for this purpose. I have one. I think it came from a popular auction site or everything store website for like $50ish.
@badbreath2918 I'm unsure if it'll let me do that or not. I'll try right after this comment. If it doesn't work, just go to that big online store named after a river in South America and search "portable ultrasonic cleaner". This shows up as the first result for me and is essentially an electrical plug with a long wire and a cylinder on the end.
@@badbreath2918 I tried a couple of times now, and the replies keep getting deleted. Search for a portable ultrasonic cleaner on your favorite online everything store, and I'm sure you'll find it.
Great to see a “statistically significant result!” Keep up the good work brulosophy!! Love these videos.
Great video again Martin! Thanks a lot!
I've tried many ways to dryhop but ended up preferring the CO2 purge method. I am fermenting in the Grainfather conical fermenters and added a ball lock port on the button valve. Together with the - indeed great - duotight connectors of kegland, I am able to now shoot CO2 into the vessel from the bottom. So I dry hop after 7 days (a few points before FG) and then cold crash down to 10 degrees C at the same time. I purge CO2 a few times per day for max 3 days on a row. And this leads to a enough movement of the hops in the beer without oxidation. I must say - you need to let the CO2 out from the top port of the vessel. Which I also modified with t-clamp to ball lock adaptor with a blow of tube and kegland duotight fitting.
I love this method so much since it's quick, easy and so far brought me the best results.
What do you think of this method? And what do YOU prefer?
Cheers from 🇳🇱
Maarten 👋🏻
Can you make a video of this please, This sounds amazing!
What does this setup look like? You got a picture?
@@keithallen9054 @joeflores1580 sure thing! i've made a reel on my instagram account. go search for kamp__vuur and you'll find it. if not, let me know.
I would be curious, after making a lot of efforts to induce those hop-oils into the beer, for how long will they stay in ? What if after a week or two or three the hop oils just "wanish" from the keg? Will preserve hop-oils racking the beer in bottle instead of keg?
it really is hard not to giggle at the hop bong, kegland 100% knew what they where doing when they named it :D
To keep the entire fermentation process as simple as possible I have always put my dry hops in when pitching yeast and left it there until bottling / kegging. You've given me food for thought on waiting till fermentation is close to done and dry hopping for a couple of days only. Maybe once I've dialled in consistency and I'm happy with all other aspects.
Great content!
I think it would be great to extend upon this experiment by trying to add the dry hop during active fermentation/ high kräusen and leaving it in until kegged and one where it is added with short contact time.
I sometimes dry hop in the keg.. works like a charm. Can sit in the keg for 5/6 weeks. No problem at all. The beers I had people crave over the most had hops in the keg. 🤷🏻♂️
First two days some hop burn but that fades in a few days. If I get hop burns I know it is great after a few days.
I find it funny the preference is always around 50/50. Whether the observation is significant or not.
Scientification of subjectivity. Gotta love it. Cheers 🍻
Nice summary. I'd like to see an exbeeriment with a beer with standard dry hop vs beer where all the dry hop amounts were added to whirlpool charge (so no dry hop but same total hops).
Fully agree, specifally when Whirlpool is performed at sub isomerization temps.
Could extend it 30min @79C and test also 60min @66C.
I dry hop at high krausen and then again once it falls for three days. I use hop bags for each shot so I can pull the old hops out when I drop the new ones in. Works great for my setup and its quite simple to do.
I add dry hops when I reach the 50% mark of fermentation. I'm hoping the additional activity will drive off any oxygen that was introduced to the carboy. I take the Matt Brynildson/Firestone-Walker approach: 3 days. With this new theory about agitating and only dry hopping for one hour, maybe I'll add my hops earlier, but after a good kreusen layer forms and let the fermentation activity be the agitation. I will still leave in for 3 days. Thanks Martin.
Martin, great video. I have found 3-5 days ideal for dry hopping. More and it tastes grassy, less and it has minimal nose. I drop my dry hops into the beer when the FG is approaching within 4-5 gravity points of done. I have the Fermzilla 3.0 with the Hopbong. , works as advertised.
I know homebrewers that successfully use a small membrane pump to freshly dry hop fully carbonated and lagered beer for serving. The membrane pump is connected to the beer-out post of the keg and pumps through a small cylinder containing the dry hops and a filter screen. The output of the cylinder goes back to the other post of the keg. Of course the whole pump system is purged with CO2 before use.
I'm also considering to try this method, since it also seems to minimize the losses due to dry hopping.
This is great Martin! Would love to know how a test how it would turn out for dry hopping during high krausen until FG is met vs dry hopping at the end of fermentation for 3 to 5 days.
For blond ale I dry hop once the SG has been stable for 2 days (Rapt Pill reading) I use pellets in a stainless steel mesh tea strainer. After 3 days of contact I chill to 6C which takes 2 days in the fermenter fridge. I then keg. Drink after about a month. No issues.
1hr cold dry hop at cold crash temp after cold crash smells amazing to me. Trick is to drop out the yeast first otherwise it drags down oils like a fining agent.
Thanks awesome helpful and handy conclusions..thanks for the video … cheers
There has been plenty research done on that topic and most outcomes say, that dry hopping for a day or even some hours would be enough. Furthermore, the colder the faster you can extract certain fruity compounds as well and additionally limit hop creep. Therefore, I usually add my last dry hop 2-8h before bottling. The more fruity one wants his beer the shorter you should dry hop.
At least your experiments have more or less the same outcome... ;-)
I usually keep hops for 3 days. However, I found a difference in taste when hops are landed from the top (like using hop bong) against hops purged from the bottom (like kegland fermzilla jar). Top-landed flavour is more constant in a batch.
Research suggests that the presence of yeast is a signifigant factor when weighing contact time. Essentially, if yeast is present when you dry hop, keep it short otherwise unwanted side effect occur which degrade hop aroma and flavor. On the flipside, if you've dumped all the yeast (once you've reached terminal), you have much more leeway with contact time because you no longer have hops interacting with the yeast.
I def notice far more harsh/grassy hop flavors when only large hopping @ day 1 or 2 for a West Coast IPA, requiring a much longer lagering time to reach that sweet spot for lingering bitterness/astringency. But I also feel some of that sharp intensity in the hop profile is 100% necessary for a good old Skool West Coast IPA. So now i do a smaller addition at day 1-2, and drop the second dry hop post cold crash 48 hrs before crashing.
Timely video! I have a Zymurgy magazine Pliny the Elder clone in my fermenter as I write this. I’m going with the 12-14 day dry hop schedule per the recipe but will try it differently next time. 🍻
Russian Rivers Vinnie said they do 24h dry hop with recirculation
14 day dry hop???
@@Thegoatbirdman first dry hop for a week then the second for another week (per Vinnie Cilurzo). I ramp down to around 50°F beforehand.
@@johng4503 do you plan on transferring to secondary or just adding another charge of hops?
@@Thegoatbirdman I transferred to a secondary before adding the first dry hop addition. I’ve never had a genuine Pliny the Elder to compare, but this is my second time brewing it and the first one came out great!
Normally I do 5 days, if not in Biotransformation. After the first day, I put some CO2 at the very bottom valve of the tank to agitate it.
Great info ! Thank you Martin !
Have you experimented the effect of biotransformation when adding hops at the fermenter together with the yeast and how this compares to standard 3-4 days conventional dry hopping?
I’m brewing a NEIPA tomorrow. Going to try this.
Great video! But I do think you missed an opportunity to test 24hours, as there are voices out there saying that the pellets (due to having their cell walls destroyed and having their enzymes ready avaiable) doesn't need more than 12 hours contact time (while 3-5days is more for hop cones). I haven't tested this myself and still have my dry-hop on a 3days schedule.
you guys and your songs are hilarious!
I'd love to look at making your own extract so to speak. Like take a cup of distilled water at your hops and hit them with a blender for a min. Then strain the slurry into your keg. Stir it up and see how it tastes/compares.
David Heath has some video on this, it’s called a hop tea.
Great stuff Martin, I'd be interested in an experiment regarding temperature on the dry hop. I've heard dry hop hot, semi cold crash or dry hop after cold crash. I'd be interested to know the best practices.
Yes, I shake the 30l all rounders 3 to 4 times a day, basically get the beer spinning around and let it settle.
Centennial might have added another variable to the test. This hop variety has a very high enzyme ratio, causing hop creep and impacting the FG. So the longer dry hop might have turned out with a lower FG, skewing the triangle test.
Longer dry hops also lead to a higher extraction of Polyphenols, which is not really wanted in your beer at this stage.
We also need to consider that the point when we are adding the dry hops plays a major role.
When fermentation is still active, the bitterness contribution of the Polyphenols is reduced.
Active yeast will also give you more fruity aroma because more of the Mycren get carried out of the beer via the yeasts co2 production.
On hot site additions the Mycren get boiled off.
It kind of makes sense that shorter dry hop times work just as well as longer dry hop times, especially with hop pellets being such small bits when they break apart in the beer. I wonder if there's a difference with whole cone hops? Like it would take longer to extract out hop compounds when the compounds have less surface area exposed to the beer? If I'm remembering correct, Russian River uses whole hop cones, so maybe that's why they use a longer dry hop time?
I have small corny kegs that I can use for small dry hop experiments.
I add dry hop and purge the keg.
Then just add the beer and I can get the fresh dry hop next day.
I used to keep normal hops in the fermenter approximately 2-3 days. Now I mainly use cryo hops for dry hopping.
if you used to dryhop 100g pellets, how much would you dryhop with cryo?
@@BirdieNumNum-x4phalf the OG amount
@@BirdieNumNum-x4p About a half of that. I used to dry hop with 40-60g in a 10 L batch. Now I just put 25g of cryo hops. That seems to do the trick for me at least.
And this is what google says: "As a starting point for recipe formulation or modification, the estimated dosing rate of CRYO HOPS is 40-50% of hop pellets by weight."
Is this why some commercial breweries use a hop rocket so they can be done with the dry hop in a few hours or less on big fermenters making it more efficient?
Dry hop in keg at 15°C for 3 days. I just leave them in the keg until the it finishes, which is a few months later. Never had grassy flavours. Temperature is the key to a good dry hop
I have only done dry hop at 3-5 days and a second with some beers. You have me thinking though an stepping outside the box and trying some other durations.
How about introducing finely milled hopps vs pellets?
Martin, I am going to swap out my large, ancient chest freezer for two smaller chest freezers to give me more flexibility for fermentation/cold crashing and corny storage what size would you consider to be optimum with these two freezers? Of course they will be temperature controlled by Inkbirds. Thanks
I would be curious, after making a lot of efforts to induce those hop-oils into the beer, for how long will they stay in ? What if after a week or two or three the hop oils just "wanish" from the keg? Will preserve hop-oils racking the beer in bottle instead of keg?
Vinnie himself said that 24 hours is their goal. Recirculating for 24 hours then Sedimentation and away with the hops
I have ruined a few beers by dry hopping for too long, leaving a grassy astringent flavour. After thinking back about the whole brew and fermentation, the only thing I could pin the flavour on was the length of dry hopping
I'd be interested in Denny Conn's method of two days after cold crasing
I've stopped dry hopping and try to dial in whirlpool hops to get same/similar hop aroma and flavor.
I slow cold crash to 12c then dry hop for 2 days of contact time while I continue slowly cold crashing.
Cut to me violently swiring my fermenter 😂😂
I dry hop at room temperature. I tried 2, 3, 4 and 5 days multiple time. 2 days was underwhelming, kinda a waste of hops. Not sure I could distinguish 3 to 5 days even with the same recipe.
Try cold!
Tasting with only one participant, no matter how many times, can't be viewed as reliable data. Sensory panels do not work that way, and a solo participant can be blind to certain attributes.
It'd also be more useful to conduct the dry hops for these trials when the beers have reached FG - the scrubbing affect of a mid ferment dry hop (ie 3 days in) versus dry hopping at terminal (ie 7 days in) would certainly impact the aroma and flavour of the two beers.
Would like to see Brulosophy step their game up in terms of experiment design - you guys have been doing this for a while now. Isolate, control and emphasize variable difference outcomes!
I always dry hop for 3 days, any longer and it starts to lose the dankness I want. I have tried with just a day then cold crashing for 2 days, but i felt it wasn't as nosey as I'd like it, so back to 3 days dh and 2 days crash
I think a flaw with the first experiment and maybe a little with the second was that the long hop was added on day 3 and the second on day 11. Those are such different times in the fermentation process. What about different levels of biotransformation? That experiment needs to be done with hops added on the same day but taken away at different days.
If you can dry hop in 1 hour when agitating the beer. I wonder how long until someone finds a way to put an agitator in a fermenter or one you can attach and and use a pump. That's a whole weeks worth of fermenters that now you can bottle and brew more. I can see large scale breweries quickly adopting this method as beer sitting in fermenters isn't making them any money.
I have been looking and Magnetic stirrers for 5galons seem to be very very expensive
There are ultrasonic "cleaners" (for dishes, jewelry, veggies, etc) that are essentially the size of a tilt or similar that could easily be dropped into a fermenter for this purpose. I have one. I think it came from a popular auction site or everything store website for like $50ish.
@@jkh4q sounds great can you link one?
@badbreath2918 I'm unsure if it'll let me do that or not. I'll try right after this comment. If it doesn't work, just go to that big online store named after a river in South America and search "portable ultrasonic cleaner". This shows up as the first result for me and is essentially an electrical plug with a long wire and a cylinder on the end.
@@badbreath2918 I tried a couple of times now, and the replies keep getting deleted. Search for a portable ultrasonic cleaner on your favorite online everything store, and I'm sure you'll find it.
I wonder if 1 hour without agitation would also be indistinguishable from the standard 3-5 days...
Lol tell me ai didnt make that little hop jingle.
What about bio transformation?
"How Long Should You Dry Hop" you should not! Save your time, money, avoid infection & oxydation and do a good late/flame out/hopstand hopping
LOL, it doesn't work that way. Not even remotely the same.
Kegland… dont bother with the rapt pill, absolute garbage. The O-rings and tubing are fine.
I love my rapt pill