What Happened To Lucy Gray?
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- Опубліковано 1 сер 2024
- I FIGURED IT OUT... probably. William Wordsworth's poem 'Lucy Gray' tells us all we need to know.
Let me know in the comments your thoughts on today's video and any topics you would like me to cover in future videos!
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Make sure to let me know your thoughts on the 'disappearance' of Lucy Gray in the comment section! Whilst I gathered some good evidence on what really happened the ending is supposed to be ambiguous and I am open to my theory being debunked :)
I think Maude Ivory is Katniss's grandmother. She taught Katniss Dad the song since she knows Lucy Gray's songs.
_and thanks to lucy gray’s time in the bakery and her skills with decorating cakes, she was able to camouflage with the woods never to be seen again…_
She would never have been able to hide out the rest of her life in district 12. If she survived, it was somewhere else. Either in the wilderness, district 13 or outside the borders of Panem. "Canada" .
If she survived she definitely 'disappeared' eventually
I love the analysis with the poem. I disagree though, because the storm was a snow storm, so I think his bullets being shot were the Snow storm coming before it’s time. He was unpredictable and dangerous like the snow storm.
Yes! I can totally see how the bullets added to the unpredictability of Lucy Gray's fate and the 'snow storm.' Thanks for commenting your thoughts! :)
I felt like the snow storm was more allegorical to Snow himself.
Lucy left her prints on him and she has remained his obsession.
He see’s her and hears her in all wild things, and Lucy is the bastion of his realization of what hope and adoration can do to a person.
Snow learns to harness this and uses it to impose his will on Panem, but he never did ever satisfactorily conquer Lucy Grey. His one weakness is still out there somewhere, and any trace he see’s of her (as in the case of Katniss) he will eliminate.
It’s what inevitably brought down Snow, it was this obsession with Lucy being vicariously lived out through Katniss, and Coin exploited that.
So to me the snow storm represents not only Lucy being “lost” or disappearing, but personifies Snow’s obsession, a storm within himself, that is consumed by the mystery of what happened to her.
If I remember correctly in the movie, when she is shot, she is wearing a dress that was not the one she was wearing in the shed before walking out to catch Katniss. Because of that I do not believe she died or actually got shot
Seeing Katniss must have been like seeing a ghost for Snow!
If I were Snow I definitely would have gone a little insane too
Him hearing her sing the hanging tree, he probably screamed internally for a whole day 😂
@@MistySophie oh to be a fly on the wall when he first heard Katniss sing that song !!! O:-)
Finally someone is analyzing this with the poem! Books are full of symbolism, the poem wouldn't be there if it was important! I do think that Lucy Gray died short after the shot, probably she went too close to the lake and being hurt she couldn't come out, that's why her body is not found, or simply they didn't look for her since the others thought she had left with Snow, and by the time they realized she didn't, it was too late. In the poem they talk about her marks in the snow that disappeared at some point, just like the real Lucy Gray's footsteps also disappear, but maybe it was just that Snow was so caught up in his mind that he just lost her track. The snake was not venomous, so eventhough it is a symbolism as well, I don't think Lucy Gray planted it, because if she wanted to really hurt him, the snake would be venomous. Also, to me, the theory of LG becoming Alma Coin is ridiculous because the time doesn't add up, also it's a long way there, I don't think she would've made it alone. Anyway great video!! Looking forward to the next one ❤❤
Thanks for watching! :)
You made some great points.
It would be such a cruel twist of fate if Lucy Gray disappeared into the same lake Snow hide the guns...
I’d like to believe she survived..but also we can never know. Great video!
Thanks for watching! :)
I get the feeling that she either remained in the wilderness, or she ended up in in 13, or Canada.
I've always wondered if Canada is still around... maybe she did end up there
I think that Lucy Gray actually survived! In The Ballad Of Songbirds And Snakes there is a map in The Capitol that is used to tell the weather (basically like kind of a joke?). Anyways in that map you can see where District 12 is and how the piece of land above it doesnt have a name which makes me believe that it's a bordering country. It was North of 12 so that means Lucy Gray knew what she was doing and where she was headed. I also think that the electric fence we see in the other movies in 12 is something that was added by Snow so that no one tries to escape LIKE LUCY GRAY. I guess it must have been added almost immediately after to ensure no one leaves which would also mean that Lucy Gray wouldnt be able to come back to 12 even if she wanted to.
lol this is long but that's the best I could sum it up
DW about the comment being long I've gotten full essays in my comment section before.
I always forget in the North of 12 is supposed to be 13 or if it's actually a possible piece of Canada that survived. Either way Lucy Gray definitely had somewhere to go if she survived the 'snow storm' and didn't have a way to get back when they put up the fence. Snow definitely had at least a little to do with that electric fence being put up.
Thanks for commenting! :)
I listen to the audio books after listening to songsbirds and snakes her father was definitely the singer of the bunch but there was no mention of his family. He sang the song mostly when Katniss mother wasn’t around. She freaked out when she heard him singing it and band the song… but that might have been because her and prim mage rope necklaces not understanding the meaning of the song.
i like this analysis a lot. i do like the idea of her making it north/to canada/former canada and then the fences going up not long after (both to prevent her return and to stop others following her).
i think it fits with the poem very neatly. of course the snow imagery can be a metaphor for corealanus but it could also represent north. also the bridge would represent the crossing out of panem altogether, and the footprints suddenly stopping in the middle would signify the point where others can’t follow (the fence).
however i rly think the purpose of the poem is to invoke that feeling ambiguity and that there isn’t necessarily a correct answer at all. to have a concrete answer would be to invalidate that feeling. like schrödingers cat- to the people who knew her (including us), she both survived and she did not.
I love the Schrödinger's cat comparison. Because we can't see if she survived by a body or through evidence she lived, she could be both dead and alive at the same time.
Thanks for sharing your ideas! :)
Oh, I love the meadow theory! Even though she might have died, her spirit still lays into district twelve.
In folklore, under the umbrella term of the Fair Folk, there is a type of earth spirit who ‘is’ the nature. Their souls lay in rivers, meadows, trees, forests.
Also, could the ‘storm’ be referring to not a actual physical storm, but a metaphorical storm for what Coriolanus did? As his ‘storm’ of emotions?
“The storm came on before its time,” might mean that his breakdown happened when it shouldn’t have, or not to Lucy Gray’s plan (if she figured it out) or that “She wander'd up and down, And many a hill did Lucy climb But never reach'd the Town.” She tried to escape alone, but couldn’t find district thirteen. She was lost.
I love your additions to the theory. 'Fair Folk' is something I totally see for Lucy Gray and a 'storm' of emotions could definitely be a different interpretation of the storm that took Lucy Gray
Thanks for watching! :)
My theory is she survived and lived in the woods. I remember in one of the books Gale said there was supposed to be people living out in the woods, away from the Capitol. Maybe Lucy Gray built a town/city there? I guess she could’ve had kids, (Katniss’s dad) and maybe he left to go to district 12. Maude Ivory being her grandmother makes a lot more sense though. She had blonde hair.(maybe that’s where Prim and Katniss’ mom got it?) plus what you said about her being able to remember a tune and passing down the hanging tree.
lol sorry if this doesn’t make sense. xx
Makes total sense. To memory, Gale and Katniss talk about the possibility of people surviving in the woods because of the avox, Lavinia
I definitely think she survived and I think she made it to Canada. CJ, I’ve heard folks say this is a stand alone book, not a trilogy, because “Where would Suzanne Collins go?” I know exactly where she goes: Haymitch’s Quarter Quell. Maybe with lots of flashbacks. But how amazing would it be to see a young Haymitch? Interested to know your thoughts 😊
I wouldn't be surprised if there were another book in the future. I'm more inclined to think there will be a story on the first Quarter Quell or the Dark Days since we haven't heard much of those before.
I don’t like the theories that she’s somehow related to Katniss, i think it would make very weak storytelling. I think it’s more beautiful to think that even tho she disappeared, she left an impact on the culture of District 12 with hanging tree that Maude Ivory could have passed down to the district as a reminder of the capital’s reign and stripping of culture, especially after the song was banned. underground counter culture sort of thing kept from the capital from a relatively unknown source, but something that represents their being. idk if any of that makes sense
also i haven’t gotten far enough in the video to know if you mentioned possible relation, i just see the theory of Lucy Gray and Katniss being related very frequently in discussions and i think it’s a bit of a cliche and a stretch. i think the fact they’re unrelated but somehow so similar really adds to the absolute torment that katniss’s whole existence puts on snow.
anyways just ranting. i’m gonna watch the video now lol
What a beautiful analysis! you have a wonderful ability to interpret symbolism. i’m glad i found this video and i really like your reasoning behind the covey splitting up along with the bit about who katniss bought the goat from. sorry for using your comment section for my brain dump
That definitely makes sense! I like to think Katniss's father learnt the Hanging Tree song from the Hob (Suzanne Collins' version of underground counter culture) even if Katniss isn't directly related to Lucy Gray or any of the Covey
@@thepeanutbuttershow6005 People relating Katniss to Lucy Gray has always felt like people *need* Katniss to be in the prequel to see the story as valid when it's just as valid in showing the Capitol's cruelty
In my opinion in the books i think she dies and snow did shoot her but couldn't find her body and in the movie i think she lived bc he was bitten and saw her in her reaping outfit and not the one she was wearing and the song you cant catch me now is her escaping him and for the female audiences they made her live.
there is no doubt in my mind that Lucy Gray survived and reached safety, but I can't see her in 13 or returning to 12. I suspect that Greasy Sae is one of the other cousins (Maude Ivory or Barb Azure). A scene that is stuck in my head: while Peeta and Katniss are helping with the rebuilding of District 12 government building(s) and a market center (to replace the Hob), a troupe of entertainers arrive. The troupe's elderly matriarch and Greasy Sae recognize each other and the reader quickly realizes the matriarch is Lucy Gray.
Prim’s goat is called Lady!
Yes! Thanks for reminding me :)
Lucey gray had been with snow once before hand and when he lied to her she heard it. She left him to protect herself and couldn't hide i. Th covey especially since her child could be born with blond hair and blue eyes. She needed to find a place to stay with a family that could hide her among the higher class in the district. As unknown apothecary
You're pretty and I like to believe she's a distant relative of katniss shes really smart I'm pretty sure she just lived out her days alone Until She knew snow was not coming back for her And made a small life for herself I'm pretty sure she explained she wanted a family And since it happened in District twelve I like to Believe she is a relative of katniss
Didn't know lucy gray was a poem i thought it just a in universe song.
No it's actually a real poem by a famous poet. Some of the lines were changed by Suzanne Collins but it's mostly the same. Lucy Gray's fate is heavily inspired by this irl poem
Great video! Very useful and I agree with your theory! Keep on going🎉
Thank you for watching! :)
Can someone please give some evidence of them "being" together because I'm seeing a lot of comments that think Lucy was pregnant with Snows baby. But I've seen no hint in the books or movie that her and Snow ever even made it past the kissing stage. That whole theory makes no sense to me
To my knowledge there is zero evidence of that. I think it's the same people who think Katniss and Peeta doing more than just kiss in the cave which just isn't true at all.
When talking about Lucy Gray and Snow the movies don't depict it all that well because of their limited time but in the books the characters were either being interrupted when kissing, weren't alone and surrounded by Covey and Sejanus, or were arguing because - surprise surprise - they had incredibly opposing values
I believe she died in the wilderness. I live in the appalachias and its full of ghost stories and lore. Its obviously one of those old tragic romance type wives tales. But this really happened. Her spirit haunts 12 and comes back to snow when hes in full power. Like katniss was a mirror of her, almost like a rebirth. Not the same person but another girl just like her, to avenge her and others. Snows karma coming from a vengeful spirit of a lover from his past.
I love how the poem has a connection to the area and its ghost stories. Lucy Gray might've become a ghost after disappearing into the snow.
Thanks for watching! :)
I agree with you. You did a great job with this video. Your theory makes more sense than the one that says she became Coin.
Thank you! I honestly despise the Coin theory because that means Lucy Gray lost who she was in District 13
You did an excellent job pronouncing Appalachians! That’s not even an European word 🥰 there are 2 acceptable pronunciations and you used one of them.
I'm so glad I pronounced it right. I've been pronouncing it wrong until the prequel came out and someone corrected me.
Thanks for watching! :)
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If you read the book Lucy grey is the later that gives katnio the mockingjay pen
Amazing video! I agree with you lol
Thank you for commenting your theory! Reader's and viewer's theories adds to the ambiguous ending and I love to see people theorising! :)
I think lucy could be katniss's great-grandmother
The problem I have with Lucy Gray "becoming" the forest is that it would be the first time in any of the books that something in the line of Myth would have happened. The book are told in a historical way and do not contain any supernatural elements.
So, what happened to Lucy Gray? Other than she was shot, I have no idea. Her body was never found in the thing that convinces my that she did not die then and there. She had at least the strength to get out of that area. She may only have been grazed by the bullet since not even a drop of blood could be seen. I am not convinced that she went to District 13. But in any case, she could not be there by the revolution staged 65 years latter.
An interesting detail in the movie is when Slow gently places the weapons into the lake. It is like he lays then in the water. That is, he could have thrown them but did not. I am not sure what this means. I just thought it was interesting.
You have some interesting points. Maybe Snow lied to us as an audience and he was actually hiding Lucy Gray with the guns in that lake? That would also go along with your point on a 'historical telling' of Panem's stories.
Lucy grey baird did not die because of the search for more money and the storyline would be that she was never really forgotten and that snow was always haunted by her memory
And at times was trolled by her or her memory there is no way that other districts did not hide or have recordings of the hunger games 10 even if equipment was vintage and out of date she was alive and lived a long but obscure life hiding in plain sight elsewhere hair color would have even shortened it
Changed her wardrobe to look generic as possible
he tracked her down and killed her. his character wouldn’t allow her to live.
Hmm, I’m not sure I agree Snow would have helped Lucy survive in the wild. He never spent a day in nature before he came to 12. Where would he have learned wilderness survival skills?
Ok, I really like this & feel that she survived, eventually succumbing to some type of wounds, but I just don’t think that it was right away. I am really struck by the hawthorn hedge mentioned in the poem. The fact that it’s outside the bounds & then Gale is the only one we hear about going outside the bounds with Katniss. The way that Gale knew how to set snares. The way his ideology was so similar to Lucy Gray’s but there was something different. If Lucy Gray survived & maybe died in childbirth (or something similar) I think Gale’s dad is Lucy Gray’s son. The fact that Gale’s dad & Katniss’ dad worked in the same mine likely wasn’t accidental & would have been like killing 2 birds with one stone for Snow if he figured Lucy Gray had been in the woods & given birth before a random child came into the district. The way that then it would be canon that Katniss & Gale are actually cousins. I never see anyone talking about this, even though it’s so alluded to at the beginning of THG & then randomly thrown around in CF. Who started the rumor that they were cousins? Or does someone actually know that they are? So many say Suzanne doesn’t write things without meaning & for me, this would be one of the most beautiful & interesting outcomes of Lucy Gray & the rebellion in general & Gale’s role amongst it all. I find it hard to believe Gale is just a side character the way he’s come back to over & over. And the amount of movie screen time he gets in comparison to some of the others is crazy to me.
The line Gale says that confirms it to me is when him & Katniss are out in the woods before the 74th reaping,
“We could do it, you know,” Gale says quietly.
“What?” I ask.
“Leave the district. Run off. Live in the woods. You and I, we could make it,” says Gale.
^ like honestly - how would he KNOW.
Thank you for sharing! I love this comment because it's very similar to my next video where I will be talking about the 'hawthorn hedge' line!
I personally agree Gale and Katniss are actually cousins (a little weird in the context of the love triangle though). It's definitely possible Gale is Covey too!
@@CJs_Galaxy hey that’s so cool!! I really think it’s far more plausible than anything else I’ve heard or read. I explained a lot more detailed to my friend & she totally agreed. I’m really interested to watch your next video for your connections & thoughts!!
I personally think that Lucy Grey is President Coins mother.
Idk if it’s cannon- but the one scene in the movie where Flickerman does the coin flip and it disappears.
I think Lucy adopted the last name Coin, jabbing Snow a bit and loving the poetry of it all.
I feel like this also explains Coin’s nature a little bit better. There is this idea that Snow was fated to end up like his father, and Coin more or less was the other side of the same coin as Snow.
Granted, I have never read a Hunger Games book.
okay so what shes effie
bro im not okay rn but because effie loved bright colours and lucy was rainbow ruffles
but i guess it would be assumed effie loved capitol life and lucy gray wanted freedom
but it could all be a ruse
who knows lol
Okay so what if Effie wanted to add a some vintage style into her Capitol fashion assuming that would make the district twelve kids more comfortable and while flicking through old magazines she found people dressed in rainbow ruffles and her outfits were inspired by fashion following the year Lucy Gray won the games - she might not have known Lucy Gray but in a way she did actually know Lucy Gray through her fashion influences....
Good theory, but the timelines don’t match
Since the history on video was erased and all information on 10th hunger games historically erased as much as possible lucy would have not for purposes of propaganda been considered the 3rd historical victor so district 12 could have 4 victors in true history of panem lol i choose 1st quarter quell and it would be the biggest cluster (F)! That 1st 2 qtr quells from dist 12 though it might not be the best storytelling to do this
I have a wild theory, that Lucy Gray Baird is the story of a bard, liek the dungeons and dragons character because the name baird is a cross of a bird and a bard, and she literally goes through her adventure of survival in a real life game by being a singer. I know this was a big jump to a conclusion, but it is my speculation that Suzanne may or may not be into d&d.
I think Lucy Gray lived, eventhough her chances of survival were small out there, I think she built in enough hoops in the story to leave people speculating.
In my mind, Lucy didn't immediately die, but she lived long enough to pass onnher song. Lucy was a survivor of the hunger games, I think she likely ran into other rebels that were hiding in the same spot as she was and befriended them and sang her song often enough for it to echo through time.
I also think once Snow heard it sung by someone in the Capitol, he made sure to demonstrate that they were the winners by hunting down the source of that song and eventually that got Lucy Gray killed.
It probably is a bit of a stretch but I love the dungeons and dragons theory
@@CJs_Galaxy absolutely, it is really pure speculation, but if Suzanne turned around tomorrow and said that she likes thw boardgame S&D, I wouldn't be surprised.
I definitely think Lucy survivdd though and somwhow ended up with a group of rebels where maybe Ivory was someone's kid there, like someome that would become friends with Lucy, and then remembers her song, or just a random person in that group, that liked the song enough to pass it on. This one has an equal amount of evidence to back it up as my first theory, which is none, but I have no clue how else that song survived.
I clicked afraid
I leave licking my fingers
Another day another slay
I believe she got to 13 an did become coin but it wasn't tell her daughter husband died an half the population died is what borke her but it wasn't till she saw the girl on fire in person an saw the popularity she had an saw the power she could have thiers only so much trauma the human brain can handle before its breaks an changes an it could happen so slowly the person doesn't realize till its to late if at all but the going thier own ways that's believe able only she I thank shes her aunt
I think she died
Well, humans have a 100% mortality rate. So i would call this a low hanging fruit.
A totally fair theory, lots of people believe that too. Audiences just believe she got to death's door in different ways. Thanks for commenting! :)