one thing i really appreciated about ballad is that district twelve is like… a place. in the original movies, district twelve is flattened down to this weird archetypal poverty - it’s Those Poors That Work The Mines, and it’s a dirty backdrop for Katniss to have feelings about. whereas in the books, and in the ballad movie, twelve is recognizably appalachia. Lucy Gray talks like a theater kid from appalachia. Katniss is a poor girl from appalachia whose dad died in a mine accident the way countless dads have died in countless mine accidents at the whim of capitalists who want to strip the mountains for everything they’re worth and leave the people who did the actual work to rot. it’s the little things, but it made me and the friends i saw the movie with (…twice) excited to recognize the real place where we really live in twelve, rather than… whatever the original movies were doing, lol.
(this also ties in to how… hilarious? infuriating? somewhere in between? how weird it is, i guess, that Coryo thinks of Lucy Gray as being Not Really District Twelve. ‘cause like. she OBVIOUSLY is. the fact that she holds herself apart in favor of her more specific identity as Covey is fantastic, but it’s clear just reading her dialect or hearing her music that Covey is closer to district twelve than it is to capitol by several hundred miles.)
I think it also makes sense because people living 74 years after the end of the rebellion will be much more dispatched with what the place they live in was before , and how things were than people that live there right after the rebellion
I do think this was partly on purpose, or at least was retconned later to be purposeful commentary. After 65 years of strict police rule and child after child dying, the district lost a lot of its old culture and the future of it over and over again. Some things were preserved, like some of the folk tunes written by Lucy Gray and her folk, but everything else was assimilated into this gray dreariness that pervades the district by the time Katniss came around. Suppression of culture is often a tool used by dictators to control people, and I think it was sadly very successful on Snow’s part.
I absolutely agree with thr stance that Snow won. He got everything he wanted: 1. Graduated and went to university 2. Took Sejanus' place, parents and money 3. Got to go to university, and tuition paid, and as a game maker intern AND study under dr gaul 4. Got to be president 5. Kept the games going for 75 YEARS 6. Took out all his enemies 7. Lived to his 80s 8. Even in his death, he took out Coin through Katniss before he died 9. He got to die from the blood in his mouth before the people reached him and tore him apart The man died still in control and with his head held high. HE WON
I’m not sure I agree that taking out Coin was a “win” for Snow though. Killing Coin doesn’t = killing the rebellion and he knew that. It was over for him regardless. Also we don’t know for sure if it was the blood or the crowd that killed him, that was deliberately left unanswered.
With Suzanne Collins' fascination with birds, I just realized that Corio's character is similar to a cucko bird. He was responsible for sejanus' death and was "adopted" by Sejanus' parents. Like how cucko birds kill other bird's babies so they'd get all the food.
I’m gonna need at least a week to fully process this information. If this was intentional Suzanne is a GENIUS and YOU are a GENIUS for seeing that comparison
In case you were curious- Snow’s family fortune came from investing in weapons in district 13. When the war was resolved, d13 was destroyed so they basically lost their money source while the Plinths literally gained their fortune from weapons manufacturing during the war so they kinda take the Snow’s place. Its what makes Coryo and Sejanus’ dynamic so interesting to me
I understand the logic behind potentially bad 2010s cgi but I would argue against leaving Peeta's leg out of the film being a solid choice. One thing I really like about the hunger games books is how it tackles disability and the long term affects the games have on the tributes both mentally and physically. In a lot of media you see characters go through horrific events only to show up in the next instalment without a scratch on them. My guess would be a lot of writers, especially in the genre the hunger games is in, find adding disability potentially limiting to long term storylines. Taking the hunger games as an example I don't think the later books would be the same without the theme of disability. In my opinion the films adapt the trauma the tributes suffer well, but seem to shy away from adapting physical disability because of budget or potential action scenes etc.
I've been saying this for years! Back when I revisited the first movie the most disturbing thing about it was the lengths it went to stay within the confines of PG-13. Like I'm supposed to be watching a horror scenario, why is it so bloodless? I felt the movie working overtime to sand away all potentially stomach-turning edges from the violent content, in a way that was more grotesque than if they'd used buckets of fake blood. All instances of disability are scrubbed, and maybe in isolation each of those cuts could be defended but the the cumulative effect is indefensible.
With hindsight of 2010s CGI, I'll admit they probably made the right call. But damn if it wasn't gutting for this to be skipped over. Peeta Mellark had the potential to be one of the most realistic yet entirely capable amputees in literature and this always felt like a huge missed opportunity!
@@theoutsiderjess1869I think its realistic that panem would have the technology to cure deafness, but they wouldn’t have the technology to make someone regrow a limb lol, his leg was severely damaged and needed to be amputated. they have advanced science but they don’t have the solution to everything.
I have to say, Lucy Gray Baird is one of my favorite protagonists of recent years. I feel as though, often, we see so many female leads that are liked by everyone but they don't know why but Lucy Gray's main skill was being a straight up bard with a lot of charisma. This cross section of a girl who always knew how to portray herself at the top of every situation that uses snakes as her main weapons?? I mean she was completely enthralling to see unfold. The one thing I was missing from the book, honestly, was the one real purposeful kill she got in the games in the books where she embraced someone who was about to swing an axe at her and placed a snake on his back she had in her pocket that bites and kills him, mirroring what she did to that one girl at the beginning of the book. Plus I just love her cleverness and her love of the life she led in contrast to the cleverness and clinging to the past power Coriolanus had. EDIT: I THINK in the video you said Reaper is killed by the snake in the books but I believe he is poisoned by the puddle in the book due to already having rabies, he drinks the water because she had him chase her around the arena by stealing the flags he was using for the burials to get him thirsty. It was a different tribute that was killed by the snake I THINK? I could be wrong.
No, you’re right! He was poisoned by the puddle which made me dislike Lucy Gray soooo much more just with how much she actively tried to find ways to tire him, upset him, and goad him enough to get him vulnerable in order to die…It was just so callous and I was so bitter because while Reaper was poised as this violent, angry boy from 11, his humanity shown through him as a character several times 😢 Arguably that’s why I’m glad the filmmakers changed his ending in the film!!
@@ashnjefen it’s hinted at in the text but the reason Lucy used that method to kill him was that she saw the signs that he had been infected by rabies and knew that if she didn’t kill him then she wouldn’t have the chance to do so later. I also guessed that she wouldn’t want him dying in a rabid state for the capitol to further their idea that the districts were savages. She saw no other way she could get out the arena alive
Finally I have found another person that thinks Lucy Gray is a bard. It's in her name, a cross of a bird and a bard. Is suzanne by any chance someone that has playdd d&d?
I really appreciate what you had to say about totalizing ideology in this video but I also spat out my drink at "What is a Coryo and why did he Lanus" so it's nice to know we all contain multitudes
Lucy Gray's character is so intrigueing to me because I'm so used to being able to figure out characters and their motives, but with Lucy Gray it was a constant mystery. Even in the movie i felt as if it wasn't giving me enough information about who Lucy Gray really is. She's definitely one of my favorite protagonists.
The way I paused this every 5 minutes to talk to myself/the screen like “yes! And also-“ like this was a two way conversation is baffling. Loved this, love being tricked into learning about philosophy ❤
to your points about the Plinth Prize and the compact before 31:00 , I think the movie simplified it for the audience. With all the characters and all the moving pieces, they wanted to give it to us early so that they could point to it and say "it's not an inconsistency, we've mentioned it before!" not realizing that the introduction of the Plinth Prize halfway in was a plot beat: Sejanus' father buying him out of trouble. I think Coriolanus telling Lucy about the tunnels and filling the compact with rat poison before he gives it to her robs Lucy of some of her agency and brains. In the movie, she was a damsel in distress and Coryo saved her repeatedly, mindfully by seeking out the snake tank and calling for Lucy Gray's release once she won the games, neither of which happened in the book. He wasn't even the one to bring her food like he was in the movies. I think if we were able to sympathize with the movie version Lucy Gray more, it's because they made Coriolanus more functionally good/neutral. He cried at the picture of Sejanus (while in the book he cried out of fear he was next), he saved "his girl" multiple times and took his punishment on the chin, he's a pretty boy and media literacy is dead-- etc. We're seeing her through Coryo's lens, and because Coryo was more palatable she seemed a canary in a cage rather than the mysterious ghost girl in her song.
If I remember correctly, the film basically combined multiple prize opportunities into one. There were scholarships on the table at the beginning of the book, and he knew he had to work extra hard to get one since Highbottom didn’t like him. Once the Plinth prize was introduced he knew he had a better chance of getting that since Highbottom didn’t has as much (or maybe any?) say in who it went to.
District 9 doesn't get to keep the bread that they create or the grains they farm they have to take tessare in order to get it . District 2 Is slightly better off and has more recorecers
@@miss.mirana4061-Yes I know that the districts don’t hoard their resources (it would be a sad life if 9 only got to eat bread!). My point is that the tradition of scattering breadcrumbs around a corpse seems like something that would belong to a district where breadcrumbs are in abundance
@@cthulhutheendless1587 I meant to say by that is that if district 9 can barely get to have the bread that they create they wouldn't use it in a tradition considering they barely get to keep it to eat its more easy to have a tradition relating to food when you're not constantly struggling with starviation
9:09 So… to be that guy… during the the Civil War-a war fought by the US on US soil, so probably important inspiration for an the child of an Airforce officer, who specifically wrote about how terrible war is because of lessons her father taught her-well, during the Battle of Vicksburg Confederate civilians infamously ate all the cats and dogs in town before ultimately surrendering to Ulysses S Grant. Not exactly everyone’s favorite Civil War factoid, but I think it’s important to keep in mind in the context of why we’re still arguing with people about the causes and ramifications of the Civil War, especially when people talk about “heritage.” Those people ate their cats rather than give up on the illusion of a chance at wealth built on owning another human being. Of course their descendants would rather it be something else. Of course they’re going to burry that history deep down to “protect” their children from learning that their ancestors were those kinds of monsters, while also experiencing abject suffering. That’s why we can’t let them sanitize the historic narrative. This cognitive dissonance might suck, but it’s *very* important to understanding American history and culture.
You realize that in every human siege that the population ends up doing exactly that? Eating their animals and occasionally children/elderly? And that they don’t get a judicially moderated slap on the wrist when enemy soldiers come through? You realize that anyone in town at that time is probably in for all of their assets (totally off the backs of slaves like their counterparts in the north totally weren’t reaping the benefits of 😂) destroyed, their homes burnt and anyone who can be physically restrained raped ? Do you know what any of that looks like? Would you like to individually judge each case yourself or can you just handwave everyone and say ‘that child bleeding from both ends over there shouldn’t have been born below the Mason Dixon line’ It’s as senseless as the slavery. What if someone came for you one day about our cheap shirts and smartphones? Will you call yourself a monster and lay yourself out for whatever those people decide? This is the level of critical thinking missing in the population currently trying to EVER understand the Hunger Games. She writes an entire delectable series with bite size examples and most are still too fucking dumb. I’d call it youth but I got it at 20, catch up.
Okay, I think you're oversimplifying a bit. Certainly the Confederate leadership's main goal was preserving slavery. And the vast majority of those responsible for the secession movement did so to preserve slavery. But the idea that most Southerners wanted to personally own slaves is like saying most people today aspire to be Fortune 500 CEOs. Only the very rich had that kind of direct stake in slavery. Most Southerners supported slavery because they were scared of vengeful free black people attacking them, or free black people competing for their jobs, or just reactionary "this is how it's always been" feelings. Certainly racism was a huge motivating factor there. But I don't think most of them thought that they were going to come out of the war personally owning slaves.
I had no idea who Rachel Ziegler or the lead actor were when I went into that movie and I was super impressed with both of their performances. I really thought the movie was going to be horrible, but I loved it right up until the end. This is a fantastic analysis.
I probably had the same reaction you did when I first heard about the Ballad book lol, but I was so impressed by the story after seeing the movie! Still haven’t read the book, so I’m grateful for you bringing up all of these relevant distinctions between it and the film 👏🏾. I especially love the point you made about Lucy Gray becoming this symbol of “the Wild” or lawlessness in Snow’s distorted perspective. Rewatching the first movie through that lens makes so many scenes with him in the present feel even more poignant. Like you constantly see how much Katniss’ whole vibe is lowkey triggering him throughout the whole film 🤣.
I love the video! However I really do think peetas prosthetic leg was necessary, it impacted him so much in his second games, and was a huge trauma and adjustment for him and his whole arc. It’s so disappointing they took it out, it definitely dulls the horror of coming out of the games and peetas own trauma
The Plinth Prize wasn't available until after Sejanus entered the arena in the book but there was a scholarship available which meant Coryo did still have a financial incentive for Lucy to win.
Love this. I feel like I’m at a sleepover, listening to a friend telling me about a movie I haven’t watched but they are really in to. Very chill and cozy. Also, loved the cat, Bella is an icon. 👌😌
I have been devouring everything hunger games and ballad related ever since the movie's trailer dropped. I love your analysis on how Coryo sees the capitol and the hunger games; I feel like even though his logic is contradictory, it also makes clear sense especially with how you presented his perspective on the whole matter. Fun fact - about a quarter through the video when you started outlining the philosophical comparisons I was like "this reminds me of that youtuber I watched who did an analysis of midnight mass, another favorite show + video I watched! And she looks.... Very similar...." (-> me looking at your channel and realizing you IN FACT are the same youtuber and this makes everything even better 😂.) ONTO the analysis of Lucy Gray. The contrast between Lucy's killling of reaper in the books vs the "let her out" parallel presented by the movies that connect to the first series: I think the movies did it very well with the side of lucy they specifically wanted to portray, of her being an innocent and kind of like a disney princess to establish her morals as not really a bad person in any scenario, and rather a victim of circumstance; and I think it's fine,, but not as interesting as the addition of her killing reaper and what it means for her mentality in the games and out of the games and presenting what she might do in necessity to survive and win in her circumstances, in life, and for herself. I think the movies were very clever with the parallel between him and seneca. I think what you said about Seneca being wrong for having any winner in the 74th games is less so Snow being willing to have no winner and furious that they weren't killed, but also kind of a play on fate, in how he pressured Gaul to kind of show that he, even in his wins and successes in the Capitol in the future, still really has to obey the whims of society but instead on the side of preventing immediate outright rebellion in the districts and pressure to not be visibly a tyrant while still remaining in control of the situation; He felt the same tight fist around him that Gaul did to have a winner, especially once the two of them brought out the berries. I do think it was most definitely him slipping up though and very angry that humanity did not prove to be as man eat man as he expects them to always be when Katniss and Peeta choose to both die together as an act of rebellion. I wonder how often did the pair of them remind him of himself and Lucy Gray, if he had the ability to see the poetic implications of the blond wealthier boy in the district being smitten with this Lucy Gray Baird-alike come from the dead; if he wanted to prove that Katniss, like Lucy in his mind, is as much a snake as he feels she is, because he did not buy their romance for even a second. In the book with her almost taunting and pestering Reaper to his manipulated end via snake, it is very interesting that it's kind of a dance back and forth of trying to get his attention until he loses control of himself and comes after her, but it kind of felt flat and I felt like we were missing her emotions. Reaper in the movie and the book was incredibly interesting in his own fight against the capitol, so to have lucy kill him also takes away from his actions, which really stand out in the movie especially when Gaul strikingly comes on screen to announce the punishment the arena will experience as a result of his disrespect toward the flag. What I feel would have been brilliant is if there were any way to keep both of the best parts of the book and the movie. All of what we saw in the movie was beautiful and well thought out, but we are missing that extra reminder that Lucy can be dangerous. I really enjoyed the moment where the girl from district 4 (can't remember her name for the life of me rn) is reaching to lucy and says that "all of the killing couldn't have been for nothing" before the final snake scene. One way they could've pulled it (in my opinion) is if she (D4 girl) had survived the snakes by hiding from them somehow; A cowardly but self preserving moment to keep her characterization accurate; STILL have the emotional climax of Lucy singing, the realization that the snakes would not kill her, and the snakes dying out slowly overnight or losing energy and movement to a sloooow crawl after feasting on the bodies. Lucy isn't removed, as she still has one opponent, and she has to confront that to get her freedom, despite everything she's been through. Maybe they have a conversation about who deserves to win, or something of a peaceful night with no fighting to rest after what they've seen before the incoming obvious confrontation in the morning. Invert expectations of the first set of movies by having her play out the man vs man conflict where she has to kill the girl from district 4 and still perform her final dance, and still use the snake to her advantage. It could be both a mournful moment as she realizes that now it's less of a kill that could be marked as an accident or out of desperation, and more of a manipulation. It could be seen as cathartic because the girl from D4 was violent and cruel, but maybe also unfair as she had an advantage with the snakes, and everyone is exhausted near the end due to a lack of food/water, and maybe the girl from D4 would have been the rightful winner in a battle of pure combat. It would also have been another note to add into Coriolanus' potential for distrusting her in the end, seeing as she has the capability of betrayal or self-preservation and cleverness of using a snake rather than a weapon. This feels like a dabble into fanfic but I had fun coming up with it, hope you see this comment lol. Glad to see your channel pop up in my youtube recs again too, so I can browse even more of your videos. And also very happy to share more good taste in shows and movies with you!! Hope you have a great day
Ooh I think someone else mentioned it though, it's also been a little since I read the book but it might've been a different tribute who was killed via snake and that reaper was killed in a different way with her running back and forth to get him to drink water she had poisoned? Either way, my comment above still stands with my thoughts on it^
not quite- in the book, treech (district 7) was the one she used the snake muttation on, and that the reader could argue as being in self defense since he attacked her with an axe. it’s particular sick to me how she killed reaper as they were the last two tributes alive. from coryo’s perspective of watching, clemensia is extremely spiteful that he didn’t visit her in the hospital so takes that out on reaper, her tribute, by not feeding/giving him water until he does something to “earn it.” lucy gray kills reaper by trying to run away and exhaust him, but instead of falling for that, he climbs up in the stands to just…watch her. there’s no sign of what he’s planning but he just watches…she’s cruel in a way by goading him out and removing the flag over the corpses of the tributes he gave a makeshift memorial for, which seemed to upset him a lot..then, she finally kills his by poisoning a puddle of rain water he drinks from since he’s gone so long without food and water. her reaction after too? she’s seemingly just…chilling. long explanation aside, I love the film changes because it makes lucy gray seem more considerate than this callous way we see her finish off thi supposedly “big scary district 11 tribute” who had humanity to try and give the fallen tributes as honorable a death as possible. The film also gives reaper a more poetic ending I think, once which I think gives him and Lucy gray more compassion to their characters. Great analysis btw!!♥️
reaper was already on the verge of death - not only from rabies, but from hunger and thirst. he kinda wanted to die by starving himself, wishing to die with dignity, but he didn't know about the rabies, but Lucy knew. so in a way she helped him
This movie was so much better than I thought it would be (coming from an og HG fan, but dropped out during the movies because teenage me was so mad they didn’t cast Kaya Scodelario). I am not a movie musical (not that you can really call it that) person but I’ve found myself listening to it so often. Especially Can’t Catch Me Now and crying for 🍉
I just finished the audiobook and I feel like I'm about to get pulled back into my Hunger Games phase...part of the reason why I chose the book to read rn is bc of the grief and guilt bc of US complicity in the g*nocide. it felt fitting to read as someone who feels like we are living in the Capitol while the Global South are the districts. the soundtrack is such an incredible addition to the experience
Juvenal Roman Poet once wrote.. "Give them bread and Circuses and they will never revolt". He was referring to superficial entertainment to please the unhappy masses. And yes, I can already see alot of the past already happening. The emperor's of Rome had gladiator spectacles. We have violent sports and movies but we are a step away. LATIN: Panem et circenses (bread and games)
the plith prize yes is introduced later in the book but yes snow absolutely needs lucy gray to win because there is a scholarship for the best mentor the prize would just be more money on top
You’re thinking of the wrong character who dies by Lucy’s snake bracelet in the book. It was Treech. Reaper contracted rabies earlier in the games by Jessup, which Lucy realized. She taunted Reaper by pulling the flag off of the graveyard of deceased tributes, thus exhausting him to the point where he drank out of the contaminated rat poisoned puddle.
I genuinely loved this movie! I thought it was better paced and the end made more sense than the book. Then again, I am such a sucker for a prequel so I loved the book too!
Random question: if tributes were still mentored like this in the original series, how do you think the Plinth prize or whatever would have gone down given the results of the 74th Games?
I completely agree with your whole analysis on Snow, also, you mentioned he saw everything being taken from him and there’s constant reminders of that. You also have to remember that. Sejanus’s made their fortune, the exact same way that snow lost his. Sejanus’s family put all of their money into weapons in his district and snows family did the same thing, but in 13 the district that was destroyed during the war. So he also has that reminder of a district person, taking his wealth right in front of him every day at school. But I don’t know I have to disagree about the CGI prosthetic for Peeta did we lose representation for disabled people in film which constantly happens. We also lost the element of physical trauma that the games inflicted on even the survivors. Katniss also lost her hearing and Peeta losing his leg with the reason why they have a lot of issues in the quarter quell. not only showing how he was affected, but showing how ruthless the capital was …they would put you back into the game even if you suffered disability the first time. I do think that they fixed this with the new movie and adding characters like wovey and bobbin, who were put into the game even though they were disabled , not at all about how they would be disadvantaged
I hate the fact that they removed Peeta's disability. It's meaningful bc systemic violence DOES cause disability, and multiply marginalized disabled people are usually aware of that. The Hunger Games to me is the violence of the status quo made visible, and disability has to be part of that conversation.
i think the biggest difference between the book and the film for me was that the book was this kinda catcher in the rye-esque unreliable narrator character study of corio. but because they obviously couldnt have his inner monologue in the film, it doesn't feature the unreliable narration as much- and that makes the core of the piece shift: the book (imo) is a story of manipulation from the perspective of the manipulator, but the film (imo) is more a straight up tragedy. this is great for film, and makes what in book form was kind of an out there concept in the ya space a lot more accessible for modern film audiences, but it also strips away some of the layers of depth. it's all similar to lucy as you;ve noted: in the film she is more understandable and consistent, whereas in the book she is more nuanced. and neither is worse-- it's just the differences of the mediums. in a book you have the space and commitment of readers to fully explore all these layers of depth in a meaningful way. Ballad's a decently moderate length so it has the room required to dig into all the depth it creates. but in the film they had to get rid of some of it; the movie's already quite long as is. if they had explored the full complexity of book Lucy Gray or tried to layer on Corio's justifications for his actions-- both of which are very important parts of the book-- it wouldve been too much. i will say i personally prefer the book slightly, but thats probably just cuz i really like books in general and especially loved collins' exploration of corio's manipulation through his own lens. but i still REALLY enjoyed the movie. great video as always, and so glad to see more ppl talking bout this stuff!
I don't know how you do it, but every time you speak about something -especially when I don't know anything about it- I find your ideas enthralling. Thanks a lot for sharing! You reminded me of my love for The Hunger Games ☺️🖤
You are so right about Viola Davis she ATE. Also Hunter Schafer, god she's incredible. I love love loved the movie, even when I also went in very hesitant. They did a really good job bringing more insight into the Capital itself. also I desperately need your full cover of Lucy's song cause god I love your music and ifs SO GOOD
it’s probably both of them! Lucy Gray told Coriolanus that Reaper came up to each tribute the night before the Games to personally apologize for having to kill them in the arena, and as a response, Jessup spat in Reaper’s eye. It’s not really expanded on beyond that, so it’s not technically confirmed that Reaper contracted rabies from Jessup, but it is likely. That moment didn’t make it into the film though, but then again neither did Lucy Gray poisoning Reaper
@@ashnjefen Reaper caught it from Jessup. If I recall correctly Lucy only brings it up to Snow sometime in the third act of the book. Reaper caught it when he and Jessup had some disagreement at the zoo, and Jessup spit in his eye.
Love the video! It just feels odd to talk about the Hunger Games as a fictional thing when we are watching a live-streamed gen0c1de of (watermelon land) and no one is stopping it.
❤️thank you!! I really appreciate that!! This is a new setup/format Ive only down twice so far but I love it (and once I learn how to use this camera properly I’m sure it’ll be in focus too lol)
I'm not a book purist when it comes to adaptation by any means. I think the first hunger games movie made some genius changes by expanding caesar, claudius, and seneca. I think the issue with adaptation is when changes to the source material alters themes or characterization. And i think two big issues with ballad really affected the overall themes and the characterization of Lucy Gray, and kind of reflected my overall thoughts on how francis lawrence handled the franchise once he took over. First, the book makes it clear that the big failure of the 10th games and why it is so scrubbed from history is that it rebelled by not being a spectacle. Because of all the pre-game deaths (which is a whole other thing with how those were cut), there is no cornucopia bloodbath. The games are slow and dull, shown through an audience perspective. And even when gaul does try to intervene and stage a climax with the snakes, it doesnt really do all that much and is kind of an embarrassing slap in the face. The games end about as excitedly as they began, with lucy poisoning reaper. So ultimately, even though these games drummed up excitement through the introduction of sponsorships and the like, why the 10th games were so censored and a slight against the capital is because even all that didnt make them exciting or go according to plan. Secondly, the movie completely eliminates Lucy Gray's agency. We see her in the book from Coryo's pov, the facade she puts on when she thinks she can gain something from his help and affection. But she does not survive the games by a total hail mary of his intervention. Yes he helps her by supplying rat poison and making her familiar to the snakes, but it is not that alone that makes her a winner. Rather, Lucy Gray makes deliberate and calculated decisions in killing people to win her games. She holds onto a snake to use as a weapon, and she rather cruely goads Reaper down from his perch to poison him. The closest we got to this in the movie was when she poisoned the tribute from the air duct, but even that was a spur of the moment decision when cornered and didn't show the same level of premeditation. Coryo may have helped set the situations up in the book, but it is clear that lucy gray has no qualms about the decisions she must make to survive, and it is her agency through these decisions that ensures her own survival. I think the movie's biggest disservices to the book are making the 10th games a traditional spectacle, and making Lucy Gray a damsel in distress with no agency. And outside of the inclusion of a bloodbath scene, both of these issues culminate in the snake scene in the movie. Not only does Gaul's plan climactic ending mostly deliver, making it strange that she would end up scrubbing the game from existence, but Coryo saving Lucy Gray by familiarizing the snakes to her scent ends up being the only reason she survives. She doesnt survive from her own wit or agency or a decision she makes, but by being rescued. Rather than stick to the themes of the book about how violence is not entertaining or spectacular, and that even the most charming people can be forced to make horrible calculated decisions to survive said violence, the movie essentially says eh no and plays into the capital's idea of violence as spectacular entertainment and saves Lucy Gray by deus ex machina. All to say, i dont think sticking to these themes would have made the movie boring. And i think it's a reflection on francis lawrence's pattern of spectacularizing the violence of this world in the movies he has directed. He might have made them look more polished, but his movies felt so bloodless and sanitary. When i think of the movies as an adaptation of the themes of the books, nothing feels as impactful as the first cornucopia scene and how brutal it was to watch. And i think that for the fourth time in a row, francis lawrence chose spectacle filmmaking over the more grounded themes of the effect of violence from the books. Rant over.
all of your videos feel like i am at a party wasted discussing philosophy and media with the coolest girl in the world TM who i met in the bathroom bc we were both throwing up and i will never see her again or get her name but i will always remember her
Watching this right after Princess Weekes latest video, you mention her video on the subject in the first couple minutes, I know I found a good pairing 😂
You don’t know where the snow is money went? They talked about it in the book and I believe it was also mentioned in the movie. The snow is pretty much only invested into district 13. All their money disappeared when district 13 disappeared. And then on top of that, there was something about district 13 being gone that caused certain families and district 2 to gain more power and more money. So one of the many dumb reasons that Corolanus does not like sejanus is because he feels that his families money somehow got transferred over to the plinths and that’s how they gain the wealth to buy their way into the capital.
36:12 No, Lucy got a different character with the rainbow snake in the book. She knew that Reaper had been infected with rabies from some disagreement Jessup and him had at the zoo (Jessup spit in his eye or something? - I think we only learn about that from Lucy in the third part of the book, though). She was running around theoretically trying to exhaust him. He eventually drank from a puddle that she'd poisoned earlier.
i hated the fact that they made games too fast and full of action, adding cameras everywhere.. it was crucial that in the book it was dull, long ang boring and people couldn't hear much or see what was going on in the tunnels and some other parts of the area. participants were much crueler too, while in the books they were chaotic and pathetic. they yassified the point that book was making by trying to entertain us and show us epic and pretty picture. also lucy gray was so clean all the time it looked ridiculous. also that she just casually performed the song on tv like she wasn't starving and living in a dirty crowded cage for almost a week, being miserable.. after bombing where she was injuredinjured, too.. 🤡
One thing I have noticed about rhe hunger games as a franchise is oddly better as a movie. I felt this way with katniss except for mockinjay(the 2 parter was a mistake you arent harry potter). I get the same feeling from this movie. Snow is a complex character. The man is lawful evil at its finest dude is always in control. The dude lived his life getting everything he wants except for Lucy gray. I dont think Snow even likes the hunger games but rather the control it brings him. What makes snow so interesting is how much Lucy is always haunting him. Katniss in a lot of ways remind him of lucy gray and that is something he cant control, just like katniss. The more he tries to control her the more she will add fuel to the fire. What makes it interesting is when Snow is being honest with Katniss he is able to get what he wants. Like when Katniss tried to stop the districts feom rebelling, or when coin killed prim. Katniss is used to everyone but snow not telling her everything or using her as a pawn. Snow is the only one who is honest about it. That is why I always prefer the movies because being able to see people act out how complex these characters who come off as simple in books is so much more interesting to me.
yessss omg in the movie shes more like a victim of corio, and in the book its more like she's just herself and she chooses to be with/collaborate with corio because she needs to survive. The movie made me hella confused cuz i truly thought she killed people, instead of them just dying from the arena.
I love your videos so much! The prequel is sooo underrated, it brought back my 2012 hunger games hyperfixation I'd love to see your thoughts on Arcane, i feel like you'd have a lot to say about it
10:12 in the book it’s mentioned that the snows invest in the weapons factories of District 13 - which they don’t get anything from because 13 lost the war
overall a great video but i wholeheartedly disagree on your take that leaving out peeta losing his leg was a good change. they went through immense psychological and physical trauma, but came out with no permanent physical afflictions ? katniss got permanent hearing loss and peeta lost his leg. they came out with PTSD and physical disabilities and i think that’s so important.
22:55 i absolutely will tell you it's because the source material is good and better than any other YA at the time. Percy Jackson was good but too intricate to have been made into movies. Would have been better as a series for sure but, it's still not as deep or as timeless as the Hunger Games books.
the idea that at the end of the movie some people were like “to be honest not gonna lie Katniss was going to agree to the women’s plan “ is telling enough about how we society could potentially accept a kind of hunger games to happen. Just let that sink in and have a good day.
I was looking at YA Dystopian literature, through both a queer theory lens (They are traumatised children who cannot do heterotemporality, even if they end up with someone normatively 'allowed' they had a period of development that Kathryn Bond Stockton's book the queer child explores) And a genre/reception lens (YA/Adult/Children's books as 'supergenre', so as many assumptions as one would expect about dystopian generic conventions, one can make about books in the same 'supergenre' that is, a YA book will not have an uncomplicated happy ending but it will not end with the protagonist getting killed without meaning, since that would be beyond the pale in a YA novel) But yeah, looked at the hunger games, uglies, unwind, on the edge of gone, and Obernewtyn, examining the complex engagement with queerness, trauma, and the unsettled feeling people report after both when expected to do normalcy after a period of trauma and how the books we give to Teens help explore and also kinda... underwrite some assumptions? about kids/teens as 'the future'
one thing i really appreciated about ballad is that district twelve is like… a place. in the original movies, district twelve is flattened down to this weird archetypal poverty - it’s Those Poors That Work The Mines, and it’s a dirty backdrop for Katniss to have feelings about. whereas in the books, and in the ballad movie, twelve is recognizably appalachia. Lucy Gray talks like a theater kid from appalachia. Katniss is a poor girl from appalachia whose dad died in a mine accident the way countless dads have died in countless mine accidents at the whim of capitalists who want to strip the mountains for everything they’re worth and leave the people who did the actual work to rot. it’s the little things, but it made me and the friends i saw the movie with (…twice) excited to recognize the real place where we really live in twelve, rather than… whatever the original movies were doing, lol.
(this also ties in to how… hilarious? infuriating? somewhere in between? how weird it is, i guess, that Coryo thinks of Lucy Gray as being Not Really District Twelve. ‘cause like. she OBVIOUSLY is. the fact that she holds herself apart in favor of her more specific identity as Covey is fantastic, but it’s clear just reading her dialect or hearing her music that Covey is closer to district twelve than it is to capitol by several hundred miles.)
I think it also makes sense because people living 74 years after the end of the rebellion will be much more dispatched with what the place they live in was before , and how things were than people that live there right after the rebellion
I do think this was partly on purpose, or at least was retconned later to be purposeful commentary. After 65 years of strict police rule and child after child dying, the district lost a lot of its old culture and the future of it over and over again. Some things were preserved, like some of the folk tunes written by Lucy Gray and her folk, but everything else was assimilated into this gray dreariness that pervades the district by the time Katniss came around. Suppression of culture is often a tool used by dictators to control people, and I think it was sadly very successful on Snow’s part.
i couldn't agree more🥹
I absolutely agree with thr stance that Snow won. He got everything he wanted:
1. Graduated and went to university
2. Took Sejanus' place, parents and money
3. Got to go to university, and tuition paid, and as a game maker intern AND study under dr gaul
4. Got to be president
5. Kept the games going for 75 YEARS
6. Took out all his enemies
7. Lived to his 80s
8. Even in his death, he took out Coin through Katniss before he died
9. He got to die from the blood in his mouth before the people reached him and tore him apart
The man died still in control and with his head held high. HE WON
RIGHT ?!? absolutely wild
I’m not sure I agree that taking out Coin was a “win” for Snow though. Killing Coin doesn’t = killing the rebellion and he knew that. It was over for him regardless. Also we don’t know for sure if it was the blood or the crowd that killed him, that was deliberately left unanswered.
Didn’t he more or less die laughing?
He was 100% the victor of his games in my pov
totally agree, he died ticking most of the items on his checklist. And lived quite long and even had family.
With Suzanne Collins' fascination with birds, I just realized that Corio's character is similar to a cucko bird. He was responsible for sejanus' death and was "adopted" by Sejanus' parents. Like how cucko birds kill other bird's babies so they'd get all the food.
OMG I DID NOT KNOW THIS THANK YOU FOR THIS FACT
I’m gonna need at least a week to fully process this information. If this was intentional Suzanne is a GENIUS and YOU are a GENIUS for seeing that comparison
WHAAAT
I’m obsessed with this speculation
i love that when your cat sits in front of you my brain fills in that the cat is providing me with this insight
In case you were curious- Snow’s family fortune came from investing in weapons in district 13. When the war was resolved, d13 was destroyed so they basically lost their money source while the Plinths literally gained their fortune from weapons manufacturing during the war so they kinda take the Snow’s place. Its what makes Coryo and Sejanus’ dynamic so interesting to me
I understand the logic behind potentially bad 2010s cgi but I would argue against leaving Peeta's leg out of the film being a solid choice. One thing I really like about the hunger games books is how it tackles disability and the long term affects the games have on the tributes both mentally and physically. In a lot of media you see characters go through horrific events only to show up in the next instalment without a scratch on them. My guess would be a lot of writers, especially in the genre the hunger games is in, find adding disability potentially limiting to long term storylines. Taking the hunger games as an example I don't think the later books would be the same without the theme of disability. In my opinion the films adapt the trauma the tributes suffer well, but seem to shy away from adapting physical disability because of budget or potential action scenes etc.
I've been saying this for years! Back when I revisited the first movie the most disturbing thing about it was the lengths it went to stay within the confines of PG-13. Like I'm supposed to be watching a horror scenario, why is it so bloodless? I felt the movie working overtime to sand away all potentially stomach-turning edges from the violent content, in a way that was more grotesque than if they'd used buckets of fake blood. All instances of disability are scrubbed, and maybe in isolation each of those cuts could be defended but the the cumulative effect is indefensible.
With hindsight of 2010s CGI, I'll admit they probably made the right call. But damn if it wasn't gutting for this to be skipped over. Peeta Mellark had the potential to be one of the most realistic yet entirely capable amputees in literature and this always felt like a huge missed opportunity!
I always thought it was odd that Katniss managed to regain hearing but peeta lost his leg when i read the book
@@theoutsiderjess1869I think its realistic that panem would have the technology to cure deafness, but they wouldn’t have the technology to make someone regrow a limb lol, his leg was severely damaged and needed to be amputated. they have advanced science but they don’t have the solution to everything.
Coriolanus really is that guy who got dumped in high school and never got over it
I have to say, Lucy Gray Baird is one of my favorite protagonists of recent years.
I feel as though, often, we see so many female leads that are liked by everyone but they don't know why but Lucy Gray's main skill was being a straight up bard with a lot of charisma. This cross section of a girl who always knew how to portray herself at the top of every situation that uses snakes as her main weapons?? I mean she was completely enthralling to see unfold.
The one thing I was missing from the book, honestly, was the one real purposeful kill she got in the games in the books where she embraced someone who was about to swing an axe at her and placed a snake on his back she had in her pocket that bites and kills him, mirroring what she did to that one girl at the beginning of the book.
Plus I just love her cleverness and her love of the life she led in contrast to the cleverness and clinging to the past power Coriolanus had.
EDIT: I THINK in the video you said Reaper is killed by the snake in the books but I believe he is poisoned by the puddle in the book due to already having rabies, he drinks the water because she had him chase her around the arena by stealing the flags he was using for the burials to get him thirsty. It was a different tribute that was killed by the snake I THINK? I could be wrong.
No, you’re right! He was poisoned by the puddle which made me dislike Lucy Gray soooo much more just with how much she actively tried to find ways to tire him, upset him, and goad him enough to get him vulnerable in order to die…It was just so callous and I was so bitter because while Reaper was poised as this violent, angry boy from 11, his humanity shown through him as a character several times 😢 Arguably that’s why I’m glad the filmmakers changed his ending in the film!!
@@ashnjefen it’s hinted at in the text but the reason Lucy used that method to kill him was that she saw the signs that he had been infected by rabies and knew that if she didn’t kill him then she wouldn’t have the chance to do so later.
I also guessed that she wouldn’t want him dying in a rabid state for the capitol to further their idea that the districts were savages. She saw no other way she could get out the arena alive
Finally I have found another person that thinks Lucy Gray is a bard.
It's in her name, a cross of a bird and a bard. Is suzanne by any chance someone that has playdd d&d?
@@corneliahanimann2173 I literally made a dnd character based off of Lucy Gray that's a bard and I want to use her in a one shot really bad
I really appreciate what you had to say about totalizing ideology in this video but I also spat out my drink at "What is a Coryo and why did he Lanus" so it's nice to know we all contain multitudes
Lucy Gray's character is so intrigueing to me because I'm so used to being able to figure out characters and their motives, but with Lucy Gray it was a constant mystery. Even in the movie i felt as if it wasn't giving me enough information about who Lucy Gray really is. She's definitely one of my favorite protagonists.
Im pretty sure the reason snow is poor is because his family sunk all their money into district 13 and then it got blown up
Yeah pretty much they invested all of their money into District 13's nuclear industry and then they seceded.
The way I paused this every 5 minutes to talk to myself/the screen like “yes! And also-“ like this was a two way conversation is baffling. Loved this, love being tricked into learning about philosophy ❤
Isn't that the correct way to interact with video essays?
to your points about the Plinth Prize and the compact before 31:00 , I think the movie simplified it for the audience. With all the characters and all the moving pieces, they wanted to give it to us early so that they could point to it and say "it's not an inconsistency, we've mentioned it before!" not realizing that the introduction of the Plinth Prize halfway in was a plot beat: Sejanus' father buying him out of trouble.
I think Coriolanus telling Lucy about the tunnels and filling the compact with rat poison before he gives it to her robs Lucy of some of her agency and brains. In the movie, she was a damsel in distress and Coryo saved her repeatedly, mindfully by seeking out the snake tank and calling for Lucy Gray's release once she won the games, neither of which happened in the book. He wasn't even the one to bring her food like he was in the movies.
I think if we were able to sympathize with the movie version Lucy Gray more, it's because they made Coriolanus more functionally good/neutral. He cried at the picture of Sejanus (while in the book he cried out of fear he was next), he saved "his girl" multiple times and took his punishment on the chin, he's a pretty boy and media literacy is dead-- etc. We're seeing her through Coryo's lens, and because Coryo was more palatable she seemed a canary in a cage rather than the mysterious ghost girl in her song.
If I remember correctly, the film basically combined multiple prize opportunities into one. There were scholarships on the table at the beginning of the book, and he knew he had to work extra hard to get one since Highbottom didn’t like him. Once the Plinth prize was introduced he knew he had a better chance of getting that since Highbottom didn’t has as much (or maybe any?) say in who it went to.
I really like this cozy camera angle, the warm lights and the fact you are in bed. It feels super comforting 💜
Suzanne Collins has done screen writing and adaptation, and it really showed!
That makes a lot of sense... epic movie! :D
18:33 It’s actually breadcrumbs that are spread around a dead body, which is interesting because District 2 isn’t the grain district
It’s definitely something about brotherhood and “breaking bread” with Sejanus trying to feed the boy from 2 all the time.
District 9 doesn't get to keep the bread that they create or the grains they farm they have to take tessare in order to get it . District 2 Is slightly better off and has more recorecers
@@miss.mirana4061-Yes I know that the districts don’t hoard their resources (it would be a sad life if 9 only got to eat bread!). My point is that the tradition of scattering breadcrumbs around a corpse seems like something that would belong to a district where breadcrumbs are in abundance
@@cthulhutheendless1587 I meant to say by that is that if district 9 can barely get to have the bread that they create they wouldn't use it in a tradition considering they barely get to keep it to eat its more easy to have a tradition relating to food when you're not constantly struggling with starviation
dr. volumina gaul: listen if you love what you do you’ll never work a day in your life
9:09 So… to be that guy… during the the Civil War-a war fought by the US on US soil, so probably important inspiration for an the child of an Airforce officer, who specifically wrote about how terrible war is because of lessons her father taught her-well, during the Battle of Vicksburg Confederate civilians infamously ate all the cats and dogs in town before ultimately surrendering to Ulysses S Grant.
Not exactly everyone’s favorite Civil War factoid, but I think it’s important to keep in mind in the context of why we’re still arguing with people about the causes and ramifications of the Civil War, especially when people talk about “heritage.” Those people ate their cats rather than give up on the illusion of a chance at wealth built on owning another human being. Of course their descendants would rather it be something else. Of course they’re going to burry that history deep down to “protect” their children from learning that their ancestors were those kinds of monsters, while also experiencing abject suffering. That’s why we can’t let them sanitize the historic narrative. This cognitive dissonance might suck, but it’s *very* important to understanding American history and culture.
You realize that in every human siege that the population ends up doing exactly that? Eating their animals and occasionally children/elderly?
And that they don’t get a judicially moderated slap on the wrist when enemy soldiers come through? You realize that anyone in town at that time is probably in for all of their assets (totally off the backs of slaves like their counterparts in the north totally weren’t reaping the benefits of 😂) destroyed, their homes burnt and anyone who can be physically restrained raped ? Do you know what any of that looks like? Would you like to individually judge each case yourself or can you just handwave everyone and say ‘that child bleeding from both ends over there shouldn’t have been born below the Mason Dixon line’
It’s as senseless as the slavery.
What if someone came for you one day about our cheap shirts and smartphones? Will you call yourself a monster and lay yourself out for whatever those people decide?
This is the level of critical thinking missing in the population currently trying to EVER understand the Hunger Games.
She writes an entire delectable series with bite size examples and most are still too fucking dumb. I’d call it youth but I got it at 20, catch up.
Okay, I think you're oversimplifying a bit. Certainly the Confederate leadership's main goal was preserving slavery. And the vast majority of those responsible for the secession movement did so to preserve slavery. But the idea that most Southerners wanted to personally own slaves is like saying most people today aspire to be Fortune 500 CEOs. Only the very rich had that kind of direct stake in slavery. Most Southerners supported slavery because they were scared of vengeful free black people attacking them, or free black people competing for their jobs, or just reactionary "this is how it's always been" feelings. Certainly racism was a huge motivating factor there. But I don't think most of them thought that they were going to come out of the war personally owning slaves.
I had no idea who Rachel Ziegler or the lead actor were when I went into that movie and I was super impressed with both of their performances. I really thought the movie was going to be horrible, but I loved it right up until the end. This is a fantastic analysis.
I’d seen Rachel Zegler in West Side Story, which I thought she was phenomenal in .
I probably had the same reaction you did when I first heard about the Ballad book lol, but I was so impressed by the story after seeing the movie! Still haven’t read the book, so I’m grateful for you bringing up all of these relevant distinctions between it and the film 👏🏾.
I especially love the point you made about Lucy Gray becoming this symbol of “the Wild” or lawlessness in Snow’s distorted perspective. Rewatching the first movie through that lens makes so many scenes with him in the present feel even more poignant. Like you constantly see how much Katniss’ whole vibe is lowkey triggering him throughout the whole film 🤣.
I love the video! However I really do think peetas prosthetic leg was necessary, it impacted him so much in his second games, and was a huge trauma and adjustment for him and his whole arc. It’s so disappointing they took it out, it definitely dulls the horror of coming out of the games and peetas own trauma
Also disability rep is always a plus
The Plinth Prize wasn't available until after Sejanus entered the arena in the book but there was a scholarship available which meant Coryo did still have a financial incentive for Lucy to win.
"Bella could you not do this?"
*cut*
Bella fullscreen comfy af in front of your face 🤣🤣🤣
Love this. I feel like I’m at a sleepover, listening to a friend telling me about a movie I haven’t watched but they are really in to. Very chill and cozy. Also, loved the cat, Bella is an icon. 👌😌
omg im glad im not the only one who got momentarily obssesed over the book/movie ?romance? anti-romance? 😭 it was so interesting
9 months later I’m still at this restaurant ?
I have been devouring everything hunger games and ballad related ever since the movie's trailer dropped. I love your analysis on how Coryo sees the capitol and the hunger games; I feel like even though his logic is contradictory, it also makes clear sense especially with how you presented his perspective on the whole matter. Fun fact - about a quarter through the video when you started outlining the philosophical comparisons I was like "this reminds me of that youtuber I watched who did an analysis of midnight mass, another favorite show + video I watched! And she looks.... Very similar...." (-> me looking at your channel and realizing you IN FACT are the same youtuber and this makes everything even better 😂.)
ONTO the analysis of Lucy Gray. The contrast between Lucy's killling of reaper in the books vs the "let her out" parallel presented by the movies that connect to the first series: I think the movies did it very well with the side of lucy they specifically wanted to portray, of her being an innocent and kind of like a disney princess to establish her morals as not really a bad person in any scenario, and rather a victim of circumstance; and I think it's fine,, but not as interesting as the addition of her killing reaper and what it means for her mentality in the games and out of the games and presenting what she might do in necessity to survive and win in her circumstances, in life, and for herself. I think the movies were very clever with the parallel between him and seneca. I think what you said about Seneca being wrong for having any winner in the 74th games is less so Snow being willing to have no winner and furious that they weren't killed, but also kind of a play on fate, in how he pressured Gaul to kind of show that he, even in his wins and successes in the Capitol in the future, still really has to obey the whims of society but instead on the side of preventing immediate outright rebellion in the districts and pressure to not be visibly a tyrant while still remaining in control of the situation; He felt the same tight fist around him that Gaul did to have a winner, especially once the two of them brought out the berries. I do think it was most definitely him slipping up though and very angry that humanity did not prove to be as man eat man as he expects them to always be when Katniss and Peeta choose to both die together as an act of rebellion. I wonder how often did the pair of them remind him of himself and Lucy Gray, if he had the ability to see the poetic implications of the blond wealthier boy in the district being smitten with this Lucy Gray Baird-alike come from the dead; if he wanted to prove that Katniss, like Lucy in his mind, is as much a snake as he feels she is, because he did not buy their romance for even a second.
In the book with her almost taunting and pestering Reaper to his manipulated end via snake, it is very interesting that it's kind of a dance back and forth of trying to get his attention until he loses control of himself and comes after her, but it kind of felt flat and I felt like we were missing her emotions. Reaper in the movie and the book was incredibly interesting in his own fight against the capitol, so to have lucy kill him also takes away from his actions, which really stand out in the movie especially when Gaul strikingly comes on screen to announce the punishment the arena will experience as a result of his disrespect toward the flag. What I feel would have been brilliant is if there were any way to keep both of the best parts of the book and the movie. All of what we saw in the movie was beautiful and well thought out, but we are missing that extra reminder that Lucy can be dangerous. I really enjoyed the moment where the girl from district 4 (can't remember her name for the life of me rn) is reaching to lucy and says that "all of the killing couldn't have been for nothing" before the final snake scene. One way they could've pulled it (in my opinion) is if she (D4 girl) had survived the snakes by hiding from them somehow; A cowardly but self preserving moment to keep her characterization accurate; STILL have the emotional climax of Lucy singing, the realization that the snakes would not kill her, and the snakes dying out slowly overnight or losing energy and movement to a sloooow crawl after feasting on the bodies. Lucy isn't removed, as she still has one opponent, and she has to confront that to get her freedom, despite everything she's been through. Maybe they have a conversation about who deserves to win, or something of a peaceful night with no fighting to rest after what they've seen before the incoming obvious confrontation in the morning. Invert expectations of the first set of movies by having her play out the man vs man conflict where she has to kill the girl from district 4 and still perform her final dance, and still use the snake to her advantage. It could be both a mournful moment as she realizes that now it's less of a kill that could be marked as an accident or out of desperation, and more of a manipulation. It could be seen as cathartic because the girl from D4 was violent and cruel, but maybe also unfair as she had an advantage with the snakes, and everyone is exhausted near the end due to a lack of food/water, and maybe the girl from D4 would have been the rightful winner in a battle of pure combat. It would also have been another note to add into Coriolanus' potential for distrusting her in the end, seeing as she has the capability of betrayal or self-preservation and cleverness of using a snake rather than a weapon. This feels like a dabble into fanfic but I had fun coming up with it, hope you see this comment lol. Glad to see your channel pop up in my youtube recs again too, so I can browse even more of your videos. And also very happy to share more good taste in shows and movies with you!! Hope you have a great day
Ooh I think someone else mentioned it though, it's also been a little since I read the book but it might've been a different tribute who was killed via snake and that reaper was killed in a different way with her running back and forth to get him to drink water she had poisoned? Either way, my comment above still stands with my thoughts on it^
I would die for Bella. She was a very good listening buddy for your video
not quite- in the book, treech (district 7) was the one she used the snake muttation on, and that the reader could argue as being in self defense since he attacked her with an axe. it’s particular sick to me how she killed reaper as they were the last two tributes alive. from coryo’s perspective of watching, clemensia is extremely spiteful that he didn’t visit her in the hospital so takes that out on reaper, her tribute, by not feeding/giving him water until he does something to “earn it.” lucy gray kills reaper by trying to run away and exhaust him, but instead of falling for that, he climbs up in the stands to just…watch her. there’s no sign of what he’s planning but he just watches…she’s cruel in a way by goading him out and removing the flag over the corpses of the tributes he gave a makeshift memorial for, which seemed to upset him a lot..then, she finally kills his by poisoning a puddle of rain water he drinks from since he’s gone so long without food and water. her reaction after too? she’s seemingly just…chilling.
long explanation aside, I love the film changes because it makes lucy gray seem more considerate than this callous way we see her finish off thi supposedly “big scary district 11 tribute” who had humanity to try and give the fallen tributes as honorable a death as possible. The film also gives reaper a more poetic ending I think, once which I think gives him and Lucy gray more compassion to their characters.
Great analysis btw!!♥️
Also remember she killed Reaper as a mercy kill since Jessup spat in his eye (I think his eye?) so he was going to get rabbies
reaper was already on the verge of death - not only from rabies, but from hunger and thirst. he kinda wanted to die by starving himself, wishing to die with dignity, but he didn't know about the rabies, but Lucy knew. so in a way she helped him
Wow...
This movie was so much better than I thought it would be (coming from an og HG fan, but dropped out during the movies because teenage me was so mad they didn’t cast Kaya Scodelario). I am not a movie musical (not that you can really call it that) person but I’ve found myself listening to it so often. Especially Can’t Catch Me Now and crying for 🍉
I just finished the audiobook and I feel like I'm about to get pulled back into my Hunger Games phase...part of the reason why I chose the book to read rn is bc of the grief and guilt bc of US complicity in the g*nocide. it felt fitting to read as someone who feels like we are living in the Capitol while the Global South are the districts. the soundtrack is such an incredible addition to the experience
Juvenal Roman Poet once wrote..
"Give them bread and Circuses and they will never revolt".
He was referring to superficial entertainment to please the unhappy masses. And yes, I can already see alot of the past already happening. The emperor's of Rome had gladiator spectacles. We have violent sports and movies but we are a step away.
LATIN: Panem et circenses (bread and games)
the plith prize yes is introduced later in the book but yes snow absolutely needs lucy gray to win because there is a scholarship for the best mentor
the prize would just be more money on top
You’re thinking of the wrong character who dies by Lucy’s snake bracelet in the book.
It was Treech.
Reaper contracted rabies earlier in the games by Jessup, which Lucy realized. She taunted Reaper by pulling the flag off of the graveyard of deceased tributes, thus exhausting him to the point where he drank out of the contaminated rat poisoned puddle.
I genuinely loved this movie! I thought it was better paced and the end made more sense than the book. Then again, I am such a sucker for a prequel so I loved the book too!
I think your title to part one might be my favourite title I'll hear in 2024!
"What is a Coryo and why did he lenus?" ...SO GOOD!
Ive been obsessed with two media properties for years now - the hunger games and midnight mass, and youve delivered on both of them. bless you
Random question: if tributes were still mentored like this in the original series, how do you think the Plinth prize or whatever would have gone down given the results of the 74th Games?
I completely agree with your whole analysis on Snow, also, you mentioned he saw everything being taken from him and there’s constant reminders of that. You also have to remember that. Sejanus’s made their fortune, the exact same way that snow lost his. Sejanus’s family put all of their money into weapons in his district and snows family did the same thing, but in 13 the district that was destroyed during the war. So he also has that reminder of a district person, taking his wealth right in front of him every day at school. But I don’t know I have to disagree about the CGI prosthetic for Peeta did we lose representation for disabled people in film which constantly happens. We also lost the element of physical trauma that the games inflicted on even the survivors. Katniss also lost her hearing and Peeta losing his leg with the reason why they have a lot of issues in the quarter quell. not only showing how he was affected, but showing how ruthless the capital was …they would put you back into the game even if you suffered disability the first time. I do think that they fixed this with the new movie and adding characters like wovey and bobbin, who were put into the game even though they were disabled , not at all about how they would be disadvantaged
I hate the fact that they removed Peeta's disability. It's meaningful bc systemic violence DOES cause disability, and multiply marginalized disabled people are usually aware of that. The Hunger Games to me is the violence of the status quo made visible, and disability has to be part of that conversation.
I know either Wovey or Bobbin has Down’s Syndrome, but what disability did the other one have? It’s been a while since I watched the movie.
You have such a elegant way of piecing it, together a story and making it understandable I really enjoyed this
I love your set up with the lights, bed, cat, etc. It felt so relaxing while listening 💜
I was so happily surprised by much I ended up liking the movie. It has been a while since we have had a well written villian protagonist
I'm 4 minutes in, and I just noticed this. But I like this, I like how you make me feel like were two friends chatting and hanging out together.
i think the biggest difference between the book and the film for me was that the book was this kinda catcher in the rye-esque unreliable narrator character study of corio. but because they obviously couldnt have his inner monologue in the film, it doesn't feature the unreliable narration as much- and that makes the core of the piece shift: the book (imo) is a story of manipulation from the perspective of the manipulator, but the film (imo) is more a straight up tragedy.
this is great for film, and makes what in book form was kind of an out there concept in the ya space a lot more accessible for modern film audiences, but it also strips away some of the layers of depth. it's all similar to lucy as you;ve noted: in the film she is more understandable and consistent, whereas in the book she is more nuanced.
and neither is worse-- it's just the differences of the mediums. in a book you have the space and commitment of readers to fully explore all these layers of depth in a meaningful way. Ballad's a decently moderate length so it has the room required to dig into all the depth it creates. but in the film they had to get rid of some of it; the movie's already quite long as is. if they had explored the full complexity of book Lucy Gray or tried to layer on Corio's justifications for his actions-- both of which are very important parts of the book-- it wouldve been too much.
i will say i personally prefer the book slightly, but thats probably just cuz i really like books in general and especially loved collins' exploration of corio's manipulation through his own lens. but i still REALLY enjoyed the movie. great video as always, and so glad to see more ppl talking bout this stuff!
I don't know how you do it, but every time you speak about something -especially when I don't know anything about it- I find your ideas enthralling. Thanks a lot for sharing! You reminded me of my love for The Hunger Games ☺️🖤
i’ve never been so excited for a notification
You are so right about Viola Davis she ATE. Also Hunter Schafer, god she's incredible. I love love loved the movie, even when I also went in very hesitant. They did a really good job bringing more insight into the Capital itself.
also I desperately need your full cover of Lucy's song cause god I love your music and ifs SO GOOD
I fell asleep rewatching your MPDG video and woke up to this and I have never read any of the books but I'm game for this
I did watch one movie while in the psych hospital and that's really my only context for this
Also Reaper in the book has rabies, he’s going to die anyway when Lucy Gray kills him.
no that was jessup from district 12!
it’s probably both of them! Lucy Gray told Coriolanus that Reaper came up to each tribute the night before the Games to personally apologize for having to kill them in the arena, and as a response, Jessup spat in Reaper’s eye. It’s not really expanded on beyond that, so it’s not technically confirmed that Reaper contracted rabies from Jessup, but it is likely. That moment didn’t make it into the film though, but then again neither did Lucy Gray poisoning Reaper
@@ashnjefen Reaper caught it from Jessup. If I recall correctly Lucy only brings it up to Snow sometime in the third act of the book. Reaper caught it when he and Jessup had some disagreement at the zoo, and Jessup spit in his eye.
Love the video! It just feels odd to talk about the Hunger Games as a fictional thing when we are watching a live-streamed gen0c1de of (watermelon land) and no one is stopping it.
I subscribed based only on your set up, I’ve been here 2 seconds and I vibe
❤️thank you!! I really appreciate that!! This is a new setup/format Ive only down twice so far but I love it (and once I learn how to use this camera properly I’m sure it’ll be in focus too lol)
Your thoughts in this video will determine whether or not I watch this film 🫡
i wish u would make this into a podcast episode omg
anyone who can say “much like the human centipede” and not fully lose me deserves my undivided attention
the human centipede lore is actually wild though
I'm not a book purist when it comes to adaptation by any means. I think the first hunger games movie made some genius changes by expanding caesar, claudius, and seneca. I think the issue with adaptation is when changes to the source material alters themes or characterization.
And i think two big issues with ballad really affected the overall themes and the characterization of Lucy Gray, and kind of reflected my overall thoughts on how francis lawrence handled the franchise once he took over.
First, the book makes it clear that the big failure of the 10th games and why it is so scrubbed from history is that it rebelled by not being a spectacle. Because of all the pre-game deaths (which is a whole other thing with how those were cut), there is no cornucopia bloodbath. The games are slow and dull, shown through an audience perspective. And even when gaul does try to intervene and stage a climax with the snakes, it doesnt really do all that much and is kind of an embarrassing slap in the face. The games end about as excitedly as they began, with lucy poisoning reaper. So ultimately, even though these games drummed up excitement through the introduction of sponsorships and the like, why the 10th games were so censored and a slight against the capital is because even all that didnt make them exciting or go according to plan.
Secondly, the movie completely eliminates Lucy Gray's agency. We see her in the book from Coryo's pov, the facade she puts on when she thinks she can gain something from his help and affection. But she does not survive the games by a total hail mary of his intervention. Yes he helps her by supplying rat poison and making her familiar to the snakes, but it is not that alone that makes her a winner. Rather, Lucy Gray makes deliberate and calculated decisions in killing people to win her games. She holds onto a snake to use as a weapon, and she rather cruely goads Reaper down from his perch to poison him. The closest we got to this in the movie was when she poisoned the tribute from the air duct, but even that was a spur of the moment decision when cornered and didn't show the same level of premeditation. Coryo may have helped set the situations up in the book, but it is clear that lucy gray has no qualms about the decisions she must make to survive, and it is her agency through these decisions that ensures her own survival.
I think the movie's biggest disservices to the book are making the 10th games a traditional spectacle, and making Lucy Gray a damsel in distress with no agency. And outside of the inclusion of a bloodbath scene, both of these issues culminate in the snake scene in the movie. Not only does Gaul's plan climactic ending mostly deliver, making it strange that she would end up scrubbing the game from existence, but Coryo saving Lucy Gray by familiarizing the snakes to her scent ends up being the only reason she survives. She doesnt survive from her own wit or agency or a decision she makes, but by being rescued. Rather than stick to the themes of the book about how violence is not entertaining or spectacular, and that even the most charming people can be forced to make horrible calculated decisions to survive said violence, the movie essentially says eh no and plays into the capital's idea of violence as spectacular entertainment and saves Lucy Gray by deus ex machina.
All to say, i dont think sticking to these themes would have made the movie boring. And i think it's a reflection on francis lawrence's pattern of spectacularizing the violence of this world in the movies he has directed. He might have made them look more polished, but his movies felt so bloodless and sanitary. When i think of the movies as an adaptation of the themes of the books, nothing feels as impactful as the first cornucopia scene and how brutal it was to watch. And i think that for the fourth time in a row, francis lawrence chose spectacle filmmaking over the more grounded themes of the effect of violence from the books.
Rant over.
thank u biz for another upload i can play in the background while working, so i'm actually productive 🙏
yesss this is the best comment I'm so glad you're getting things done lol
Viola Davis is just having the best time as this character. And I love that for her.
Your cat literally heard the word "rebellion" and thought: MEEEEEEEEE! XD
all of your videos feel like i am at a party wasted discussing philosophy and media with the coolest girl in the world TM who i met in the bathroom bc we were both throwing up and i will never see her again or get her name but i will always remember her
Watching this right after Princess Weekes latest video, you mention her video on the subject in the first couple minutes, I know I found a good pairing 😂
You don’t know where the snow is money went? They talked about it in the book and I believe it was also mentioned in the movie. The snow is pretty much only invested into district 13. All their money disappeared when district 13 disappeared. And then on top of that, there was something about district 13 being gone that caused certain families and district 2 to gain more power and more money. So one of the many dumb reasons that Corolanus does not like sejanus is because he feels that his families money somehow got transferred over to the plinths and that’s how they gain the wealth to buy their way into the capital.
Great video to watch at the gym. Also this is how I learn John Locke from Lost is named after John Locke. The more you know.
The books held up for me
36:12 No, Lucy got a different character with the rainbow snake in the book. She knew that Reaper had been infected with rabies from some disagreement Jessup and him had at the zoo (Jessup spit in his eye or something? - I think we only learn about that from Lucy in the third part of the book, though). She was running around theoretically trying to exhaust him. He eventually drank from a puddle that she'd poisoned earlier.
i hated the fact that they made games too fast and full of action, adding cameras everywhere.. it was crucial that in the book it was dull, long ang boring and people couldn't hear much or see what was going on in the tunnels and some other parts of the area. participants were much crueler too, while in the books they were chaotic and pathetic. they yassified the point that book was making by trying to entertain us and show us epic and pretty picture. also lucy gray was so clean all the time it looked ridiculous. also that she just casually performed the song on tv like she wasn't starving and living in a dirty crowded cage for almost a week, being miserable.. after bombing where she was injuredinjured, too.. 🤡
One thing I have noticed about rhe hunger games as a franchise is oddly better as a movie. I felt this way with katniss except for mockinjay(the 2 parter was a mistake you arent harry potter). I get the same feeling from this movie. Snow is a complex character. The man is lawful evil at its finest dude is always in control. The dude lived his life getting everything he wants except for Lucy gray. I dont think Snow even likes the hunger games but rather the control it brings him. What makes snow so interesting is how much Lucy is always haunting him. Katniss in a lot of ways remind him of lucy gray and that is something he cant control, just like katniss. The more he tries to control her the more she will add fuel to the fire. What makes it interesting is when Snow is being honest with Katniss he is able to get what he wants. Like when Katniss tried to stop the districts feom rebelling, or when coin killed prim. Katniss is used to everyone but snow not telling her everything or using her as a pawn. Snow is the only one who is honest about it. That is why I always prefer the movies because being able to see people act out how complex these characters who come off as simple in books is so much more interesting to me.
yessss omg in the movie shes more like a victim of corio, and in the book its more like she's just herself and she chooses to be with/collaborate with corio because she needs to survive. The movie made me hella confused cuz i truly thought she killed people, instead of them just dying from the arena.
i actually really needed the kitty times. and thank you for being so great biz
I love your videos so much! The prequel is sooo underrated, it brought back my 2012 hunger games hyperfixation
I'd love to see your thoughts on Arcane, i feel like you'd have a lot to say about it
I got the audiobook as soon as it came out and i looooved it.
2012 feels so long and so close at the same time.
this is best comentary i have seen on this book or film ever. thank you!
I love the percy jackson movies bad adaptation or not its iconic
Because of this I googled "human centipede" and OH BOY I wish I had not done that.
(And yet, I think you've persuaded me to watch Ballad)
I love this cozy talking style
Right around 46:00!(along with the reat of the video) you just look so beautiful! Love the messy hair!
Woohoo! New biz!
10:12 in the book it’s mentioned that the snows invest in the weapons factories of District 13 - which they don’t get anything from because 13 lost the war
this might be my fav video ever
my cat is in bed in my way while watching this, so its all working together.
My cat loves to do the same with all of my video calls XD
overall a great video but i wholeheartedly disagree on your take that leaving out peeta losing his leg was a good change. they went through immense psychological and physical trauma, but came out with no permanent physical afflictions ? katniss got permanent hearing loss and peeta lost his leg. they came out with PTSD and physical disabilities and i think that’s so important.
I love Katniss Everdeen.
I love Peeta.
I love their romance.
22:55 i absolutely will tell you it's because the source material is good and better than any other YA at the time. Percy Jackson was good but too intricate to have been made into movies. Would have been better as a series for sure but, it's still not as deep or as timeless as the Hunger Games books.
the idea that at the end of the movie some people were like “to be honest not gonna lie Katniss was going to agree to the women’s plan “ is telling enough about how we society could potentially accept a kind of hunger games to happen. Just let that sink in and have a good day.
HONEY WAKE UP BIZ JUST POSTED A 49 MINUTE VIDEO ON THE HUNGER GAMES
great video! watching it in bed felt really immersive 😂
you are so smart this was really interesting i love your perspective
immaculate vibes as always
Did my thesis on hunger games keen to see your looking on this
oooh that's so cool! What was your major/thesis on??
I was looking at YA Dystopian literature, through both a queer theory lens (They are traumatised children who cannot do heterotemporality, even if they end up with someone normatively 'allowed' they had a period of development that Kathryn Bond Stockton's book the queer child explores)
And a genre/reception lens (YA/Adult/Children's books as 'supergenre', so as many assumptions as one would expect about dystopian generic conventions, one can make about books in the same 'supergenre' that is, a YA book will not have an uncomplicated happy ending but it will not end with the protagonist getting killed without meaning, since that would be beyond the pale in a YA novel)
But yeah, looked at the hunger games, uglies, unwind, on the edge of gone, and Obernewtyn, examining the complex engagement with queerness, trauma, and the unsettled feeling people report after both when expected to do normalcy after a period of trauma and how the books we give to Teens help explore and also kinda... underwrite some assumptions? about kids/teens as 'the future'
I can always rely on biz to explain hunger games to me even though i know about it only by tumblr posts
incredible! you are so amazing!!
Hehe that cat looks like my cat
Omg yay ✨
as the mom of two tabbies that also have no concept of personal space, watching your video felt like looking at the mirror lol
what did she say???? 9:37
Rejoice!! another biz sermon
first Taylor Swift music and now the Hunger Games?? I feel so validated that one of my new favorite UA-camrs has the same interests as me damn
Ready for the newbiz
wake up babe new biz barclay just dropped
I am subscribing in hope to hear one day , why you think that the Twilight series was better than the Hunger Games adaptations .