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Is This The Ultimate Countersink Bit? [video 578]
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- Опубліковано 16 сер 2024
- In this one we’re talking countersinks vs counterbores and comparing the cheap and cheerful ‘Rosehead’ countersinks to the more spendy ‘no flute’ deburring countersinks.
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Table of Contents:
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00:00 Introduction
00:36 Screws and fixings
01:13 Overview
01:37 Rosehead countersink
02:22 Why a clean countersink matters
02:45 Deburring countersink
03:39 Just use a bigger drill!
04:07 Counterbores
04:25 Plug & cutter set
04:57 Coverboard tip
05:51 Conclusion
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Trend snappy Deburring tool (countersink) - amzn.to/3Xw6b3c
Fisch deburring tool (countersink) - amzn.to/4emJDrG
Rosehead countersink - amzn.to/3KL960x
Pilot bit and countersink set - amzn.to/45LVcVH
Plug and cutter set - amzn.to/3VIXDVn
Bosch Pro 30mm Forstner bit - amzn.to/3VtxM3E
Bosch Pro 20mm Forstner bit - amzn.to/4eckb8q
Fisch 5mmm lip & spur / brad point bit - amzn.to/4aNq9th
Fisch 8mm lip & spur / brad point bit- amzn.to/4e6tKFN
KWB Drillblock - amzn.to/3V8IhrW
Thin plywood sheets - amzn.to/45e2npm
Tailors’ awl - amzn.to/4aBHCVx
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I always use the trend snappy bits with the non marring depth stop. Amazing bits and brilliant for consistent repeat work and a professional finish 👌
Saw these on UA-cam years ago. Ordered 4 sizes on McMaster-Carr to cover all of my needs. Never looked back.
Cheers, thanks! 👍
You are so right on this. I abandoned fluted countersink years ago. So much better with the conical/de-burring bits.
The results speak for themselves! Nice, thank you Peter.
Yes it does! Cheers, thanks! 👍
Hi Peter! One argument against using a large drillbit for a countersink is, that the angle is completely wrong for a screwhead. It needs to be 90° while the drill bit usually has 120°.
I was using the old contersink you showed for years. But the resulty where always poor. I switched then to what we call here in Germany cone-countersinks. They are designed to be used with metal, but they work perfectly in wood as well. I have a set of different sizes and select the size according to the screwhead. That prevents too large holes, even if I accidentally go too deep. However the cone-countersinks are much less aggressive, than the cross-bore countersinks you use. Plus they work fine also in aluminum and steel (not sure if the cross-bores do).
One additional hint from the metal-division: There are also counterbore routing bits available with a little cylindrical shaft at the tip. They are meant for sinking screws with cylinder-head in metal. However they also work fine for counterbores in wood if you forgot to drill the larger hole for the dovel before you drill the hole for the screw (like at 04:10). The little shaft at the tip centers the bit in the pilot hole.
Cheers
Andreas
Thanks Andreas! 👍
Screw heads are not 90 degrees, they are 82 degrees. An 82 degree countersink is used for screw heads.
@@philcook9967 Metric screw heads are often 90 degrees. But if you have 82 degree screw heads and only a 90 degree countersink bit, it's still a lot closer than most drill tips.
I do a lot of metalworking, and oddly enough, i never considered using these countersinks for woodworking, I had always used the multi-flute woodworking type. After watching your video, i immediately tried one, and found the results far superior to anything that i had been using. I immediately ordered 3 of various sizes from my metalwork tooling supplier. Technically these are known in the U.S. market as "zero-flute countersinks" and i think the reason that they work so well in wood is because they don't cut as aggressively as their multi-flute cousins. Thanks for a great video Peter!
Cheers Barry! 🙌👍
Very useful, because as well as being a "refresher" there are a couple of "right, go it" tips built in, as if in passing. I've always found the problem with the old style bits is the build up of waste in the flutes.
There is an issue with the angle of countersink. Historically a countersink is 90 degrees, whereas twist drills and I believe self-conutersinking screws as shown are 60 degrees.
Thank you for the tips. Simple but useful.
I've used this style of countersink and it is much better than the normal bits.
These are great, and last a lifetime. Well worth it and makes a big difference in end finish!
Great video again Peter. A few months back I saw a tips video on another channel where the guy recommended drilling the countersink first if you have one of those fluted bits. I can't always remember to do it first but when I do, the fluted bit produces far less tear out and leaves a much neater edge. Since I've never had one of your so called ultimate counter sink bits I can't compare but it's definitely better to counter sink first. I've also noticed that if you do it after drilling the holes, drilling the last few mm if the countersink in reverse also cleans up the edges quite a bit.
Thanks! 👍
If your goal is aesthetics, you need the consistency of a depth stop. Either with a separated collar or with a dedicated Pilot + Countersink + Stop bit. Amana for the US Market, and Festool for the European one, have nice options.
Thank You for this short video.
As working with Festool Centrotec, there are the Festool QLS D 2-8 and QLS D 5-15. They work very well
Thanks! 👍
Thanks Peter, this may have been a refresher but it certainly wasn't boring ? 😉
Very helpful information. Thank you!
Very useful indeed, many thanks.
Having used a cheaper version of 1:40 I've never been thrilled with the results. Appreciate the demonstration of some more quality options.
Thanks! 👍
Hi Peter, another good video. Just a tip that I was shown a few years ago, if you make the counter sink before drilling the clearance hole using the old style countersink ( rosehead ), you do not get the chatter marks that you showed in your very well informed video.
Keep up the great content.
Cheers, thanks! 👍
I've always used the Weldon cross hole countersinks. The times I've been without it and had to borrow a rose style, I counter sink first then drill the hole. This leaves a much cleaner cut
Thanks, Peter! 😊
I definitely need to get some of those tools!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Thanks, you too! 👍
I’ve been wanting to try one of the counter sink bits with the depth stop ring. Looks like it really speeds up the process while increasing accuracy.
Use the countersink before drilling the hole to eliminate chatter. Works with all types of countersink.
Using a countersink just larger than the screw head gives a shallow parallel counterbore above the countersink giving a smaller neater visible chamfer around the screw head.
I've been interested in these deburring bits for a while but never got hold of one. With the fluted variety I often find the countersink is off-round however precise you try to be. Like you say they have a tendency to leave a ridged countersink. A tip for people new to the plug cutters if you don't have a drill press is to drill a hole in some scrap the same size as the o/d of the cutter and clamp it down to the plug material as a guide. It's not really possible without a drill press or that jig, the bit just skates all over the shop, but the jig works well enough.
You can use the conical bit to do pocket holes, of course it’s a little free hand.
It would be nice if they could have an end stop, so they would be consistent in depth
Brilliant! Been looking, very casually, for a better countersink for 50 years
Hope this helps rather than confuses, lol! 👍 😂
I have a set, I think I bought them after watching you use them in another ten minute video. I like them (and I bought my set, cheaply, at Harbor Freight), but there's also something to be said for the "old school" all-in-one countersinks that drill all three holes in one pass without bit changes. I like the think of a countersink as a hole with an angled bottom and a counterbore w hole with a flat bottom. Good counterbore drills with pilots seem to be pretty expensive, the exception being the Kreg drill bit with a counterbore.
Single flute countersinks and this deburring style are superior. Parkside had a "pilot hole + countersink" bit set with depth stop in various sizes, and I never got on with it. The single flute pilot bit would fill with waste and get stuck at the countersink attachment requiring constantly cleaning out. So now I just have 4 drill drivers for pilot, clearance, countersink and screwdriving...
Nice video, Peter! You’re always on top of your trade 😊😊
Cheers, thanks Steve! 👍
Only ever used a drill bit to counter sink wafer head style screws and thats only when im out of countersunk. The drill bit works well because it removes less material than a normal counter sink if youre gonna use wafer heads
I am using these style of countersinkers successfully for a longer time now.
Especially the ones from Fisch and Alpen, because they are produced in my home country of Austria 😉
Nice! I do like a Fisch bit.👍
If you have a fluted countersink bit , and you drive it in reverse, you get a much smoother countersunk hole 👍😉
Hi Peter, I'll have to get one of these Rosehead countersinks, nice finish to woodworking.
As always full of good tips and advice, Take care
Cheers Shaun! Just to be clear the 'rosehead' is the serrated one, the deburring one is the one I prefer. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thank's Peter
Excellent tips as usual and as usual I learnt something new. Thanks
Thanks! 👍
These are fine but I've tried probably every option out there and the best, by far, is the Amana 55227 Countersink.
Absolutely. I like the, (55293 - 7/64 Drill) for smaller screws, and at little lower cost.
Had the festool centrotec version for the last 15 years. One issue is they are easy to countersink off centre when rushing as the can drift off centre without a guiding bit. I then bought a South Korean version which counter sinks and bores with a lockable depth stop like in aeroplane tools. Simply the best so for me. Very hard to get hold of had to get it via the states. But worth it
Great info, thanks! Lockable depth stop would be very handy! 👍
In addition to the countersinks, Trend also do some carbide tipped counterbores with 3/8" and 1/2" diameters. These work really well with their snappy tapered plug cutters, particularly when you are working with hardwoods.
Cheers, thanks! 👍
The countersink you show and the single flute countersink work very well in wood. The multi flute countersink is the one that creates the chatter and never worked for me in wood. It does work in metal without chatter, though.
Good to know, thank you! 👍
Very interesting. Thanks
The Amanda tool countersinks with depth stop work really well.
Thanks! 👍 I'll have to check her out, lol! 😂
Damn auto correct.
I think that the Amana countersinks with the nylon depth stop come from the same source as the Trend versions. The Amana models with the gold coloured stop are superior quality, but a lot more expensive.
I won't use any countersink other than the Amana unless I have to for ergonomic or other reasons.
Yes, they aren't cheap ($40-$45 US), but two sizes handle most of my countersinking.
Oh, I've got some of these and never thought about using them for wood. To be honest I tend to only watch your tips and tricks, unless it's something I might build.
Cheers, thanks! 👍
I have a few, they do work very well.
I was lucky enough to own one of that type of counter sink bit 40 plus years ago. To be honest, I couldn't get on with it. I still have it, although I've retired now. I believe they were designed for metal work as they were used by Rolls Royce.
I use to use, the Trend 62/80X1/4TCDrill countersink counterbore type for the hole, with a drill and Trend 24/10X1/4 TC plug maker, using a plunge router. Using a router, you produce lots of plugs in a few minutes. Please note the two cutters mentioned, may not be compatible, I couldn't find the exact pairs. They are available though.
Cheers, thanks! 👍
I asked you the question a year or two ago and after you said what you used I’ve used nothing else since, I love them. Only thing to be aware of is you can easily off-centre the sync if you are a gorilla and press too hard (often with cheap bits).
Cheers Dean! 👍
I have a couple of the Fisch countersinks and if I were to lose one I'd buy another immediately. They're excellent and I'd never go back to those wobbly ones.
(By the way, I liked the way you moved your hand when you were half way through cutting the end off the plug...)
Thank you! 👍 And yes, I realised as I was doing it! 😂
SPAX are my favorite brand of fasteners, too!!! Made in Germany! However, I have standardized on TORX drive.
I like the M-cut torx head, but prefer pozi for everyday use. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop can you arbument that choice? I guess my choice is due to how well the screw stays on the bit during decking.... and everything else. I just like the stability of the interface between bit and screw.
Where possible, I drill the countersink first not the pilot hole. That way the centre of the countersink is located in wood rather than thin air. So it turns smoothly and you avoid the problem of ridged countersink holes.
These would also work great in a CNC application, just keep the RPM and plunge speed in check. Also, probably goes without saying, but I'd not machine with it just vertical plunge. Heh.
I took a look at the trend bit after having this problem but since it was mostly going to infrequently be abused on sheet goods i opted for the 4 pack ebay special version for about 8 pounds and they're still going strong after 18 months.
I've since learned the old style can give an adequate finish provided you start with using them and then drill your hole after. Though i wont be going back to them.
I'd be curious to see how the budget versus mid range and premium versions of these types of bits stack up against each other.
Over last couple of years I've bought so many Dewalt and Trend pilot countersink bits and they are good but I get really annoyed by the lack of replaceability. I break the pilot drill inserts regularly (construction site and I use them in anger) so buy the replacement pilot drills to re-use in the countersink bits. Problem is that the little hex head grub screws keep camming out, making the whole thing useless. Can barely go through one or two pilot drills with the same countersink bit without having to bin it and get a whole new set. So annoying.
Yeah, heat kills. Either slow down, or switch out when it gets hot.
Thanks for another good video Peter,but just one little gripe,I think you mistakenly called the clearance hole a pilot hole. You might think I’m being finicky but I’ve seen so many carpenters using pilot hole instead of clearance hole and we need to get this right.
nicely done!
Thank you! Cheers! 👍
A fluted countersink will cut much more cleanly with more pressure. That does make it trickier to stop at depth.
Deburring tools for tubes, halls make the best.
I bought a pilot drill/countersink with a depth stop - no more over shooting the countersink.
Nice! 👍
In my experience regular drill bits need stops if you want reliably stop at a certain depth. They easily catch and drill too far without one. Maybe in plywood it's not as much of a problem?
yes, it is :D I know this even before watching the video since I tested few of them and this one is indeed the best :)
Cheers, thanks! 👍
If you buy a fluted countersink with uneven flutes it doesn't leave a faceted hole.
That said, I do like my conical countersink! 😉
Nice 👍
Thanks 👍
Didn't even need to watch the video to know the answer is YES!
As a retired life long cabinet carpenter you taught me something that I didn’t know about, the deburring countersink at 2:45 is something I’ve never heard about. Ty for the tip 🫡
Thanks! Glad it helped! 👍
Countersink prior to pilot hole prevents chattering and crap finish doesn't it?
Interesting and great close-ups. What was the 'finish' and how durable is it? Thanks.
Thanks! The finish was from Leo at @hand-i-craft channel, he makes a carnauba wax that’s excellent. 👍 www.hand-i-craft.com/store-1-2/p/style-03-g2rtt-swnxd
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thanks ordered.
Hi Peter, thanks for the info, I have an unrelated quick question. What do you think of the beech faced ply? I'm considering getting some, either that or marine.
Thanks! I've never used Beech faced ply Im afraid; I used the Maple faced one from Garnica, and the Birch faced Poplar ply; they both left me wishing I could get my hands on Birch ply tbh... Been using a b it of marine ply recently and it's very good. 👍
That was useful, thank you.
I noticed you were using birch ply for this example.
Any idea where I can get light weight plywood (18mm),
Birch if possible but it can be Any species.
I'm building a portable work bench and weight is important to me.
Cheers
Try and get some Poplar plywood - about half the weight of regular ply. I just asked my local timberyard to order it in, I think they deal with Lathams. 👍
Thats great thank you for getting back to me,
Been watching your program for years @10MinuteWorkshop
I'm trying to find that video referenced where he discusses cheap vs expensive screws. Anybody have a link?
It was mentioned in the original workshop tour video, here ua-cam.com/video/Ce_gMwIQQsk/v-deo.htmlsi=_jKMjswKUhyBYaBr - starts about 8:25.
Rather than using the larger drill to countersink with the drill in forwards try it in reverse!
Thats how I eliminate the chatter with fluted countersinks. Run in reverse and push really hard. 🤪
👍👍
Festool make the best countersink.
Torx, dear Peter. Torx
Are you Pozi about that? 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Lol...working with Torx for five years as a professional builder I sure am!
The linked Fisch deburring coutnersink is now $132 on Amazon. Lol.
If only there was a way to search for a product based on the description, rather than slavishly following a link that gave the correct price at the time of posting the video. Lol. 🤷♂️👍
@10MinuteWorkshop Of course. I was just laughing at the automated price gouging, not blaming you.
Wowzers!! $123 US for one of theose Fisch bits?
😯 £20 GBP here in the uk. 👍
I don't think the exchange rates that steep. Your Amazon link shows $123 US
Can’t find these under Trend or Fish…??…lots of cheap rubbish and a few single expensive ones,but very few reasonably priced ones…they don’t seem to have a definitive name…chamfering deburring countersink etc..
Zero flute shows quite a few on EBay, but mainly from the USA and very expensive
There are links in the description. All you have to do is click them. 🤷♂️
The lack of depth control would keep me away from this style. I am definitely not an expert though.
If only there was a way for mankind to judge when something is ‘deep enough’ right? 😂👍👍
You may not be an expert, but your judgement is correct on this. I use this, (Amana Tool - (55293) Carbide Tipped 82° Countersink with Adjustable Low Friction Depth Stop, 3/8 Dia x 7/64 Drill Dia x 1/4 In) - Amazon
Not affiliated in any way shape, or form.
It's a bit spendy, but if you don't overheat it, it will last you many years. The depth is fully adjustable. Amana, and many other firms make a wide variety of this type of countersink bit. I like this one because the pilot bit is small, and it doesn't damage the work surface. Great for smaller screws.
@@Gazman299 I have seen that one recommended before, it is the style that seems the most logical to me
@@10MinuteWorkshop With timber there are ways, and experience with the tool no doubt helps. I do like the idea of a depth stop though, especially if you are always using the same screws. With wood it can be a bit more hit and miss...
Very good product but out of my league
2nd
First
Bought a cheapo set of 4 of those non-fluted counter sinks from amazon a few years ago, hardly use anything else now.
Nice! 👍