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Most Underappreciated comment on UA-cam. People spend so much time prepping the perfect shop instead of just doing the projects. The shop is only gonna be as good as the user.
Been wood working for 60 + years . . .my work bench is topped with MDF with few dog holes. If i need a special hole I'll drill it but most of the time it's a scrap of wood with a tort screw making the clamp. When the MDF is butchered I'll flip it, simple, low cost and easy. Tip #2 , if you have some old pull down window blinds they make a great glue up surface . . .who knew . . .not bashing just helping. Stay safe and build something
I'm not a woodworker for a long time, but I like my stupid simple workbench: an old solid door topped with one layer MDF. The MDF is connected to the "door" with few screws. I have few dog holes on one side (3x4) an so far this was always sufficient. I can easly clamp long wood pices at the egdes wich serve pretty well as fences for different tool. I don't care to cut slighty in the MDF because I'll change it once a year for less than 20 €.
@@berndreuther704 I did a similar thing but with an old office desk top someone was giving away for free. It's laminated well and doesn't fall apart like the stuff he shows in the video.
Joiner for 40 plus years. Level bench with 35 mm mdf or melamine....work on till glue etc builds up.... belt sand flat...rinse and repeat......after 10 years through 18mm sheet on top. Good for another 10 years.... K.I.S.S. 🤔😂😎🇦🇺👌
I found that adding the laminate is overkill. I built mine 12 years ago and I just have bare MDF, I wiped on shellac and paste wax. Nothing sticks to it. Once a year or so, I’ll do a light sanding and reapply the finish.
Same here. I used some shellac or Watco lacquer and just sand and reapply as needed. I have dog holes on my Roubo, but not my MDF topped assembly/work sufaces.
Valuable information, Raf. I'll leave the 30mm thick MDF for my router table plain and hard wax it instead of applying melamine, which was in my original plan. I'll try rounding over edges and rounding the corners instead of edging it, waxing all those surfaces and the underside as well.
Me too. This is WAY overkill. Plus, I don’t have an issue with drilling and screwing right into the table. I do it all the time and eventually fill in the holes with glue and sawdust.
My thoughts exactly! Put the woodworking equivalent of marine diesel water-separator in the table-side of the system to allow screws to drip into it and not get sucked into the vacuum itself (sort of like a plumbing p-trap will catch a wedding ring before it going further down the waste line) and this ridiculous material- and time-wasting build might just possibly be worth it and definitely more utilitarian. This might just possibly be the dumbest UA-cam video I’ve watched in a long time.
@JamesYale1977 wtf? I also judge him, not for his ability to own expensive tools, but for claiming to be a cheapskate when he's clearly not. There's nothing wrong with owning expensive tools if you can afford them and justify the expenses, but you can't claim to be a cheapskate when you have stacks of festool boxes, buy two different $200 dog hole jigs when you can make one out of your old workbench top, spend ~$300 on dog hole plugs, and are pedaling router bits that are $250 a piece
My current work bench is a formika countertop that I got for free from a local cabinet shop. They pulled it out of someones house, and I stopped by one day asking if they had anything.
just follow kitchen remodelers around for a few days. They take formica countertops off all the time and if you want to take it, they will give it to you for free because to them it's literally trash but it's a perfectly great piece of workbench.
33 minutes of my life I will never ever get back again...🤨 this appeared to be more of an infomercial than a DIY, what does Factor have to do with woodworking... I was waiting to see an Oxy-Clean push... so the end result, don't buy the expensive T-tracks from the T-track cartels, buy 1000 magnets instead and a bunch of glory hole attachments for the 1000 unsealed holes drilled...🤣
@@jamesdrake2378 "low grade" based on what exactly? These benches with many holes are common in the UK -they are called MFT tops or "multi function tabletop" - you can buy them in MDF or quality birch ply, with cnc grade accuracy holes for dogs for laying out a tracksaw against, and the company that makes them even makes a knockdown easily portable site bench system - you're literally talking BS - the guy who invented the MFT system is a MILLIONAIRE NOW just from this product.
Ok, but now you have fallen into and perpetuated another you tube myth, you don't need all those dog holes. Juse a couple of rows along the frount, and one side, with a row down the center and your done. Dont beleive my, just track how many you actually use over the course of a year and you'll see. Or you could take a look at a traditional cabinet makes bench and see where they placed their dog holes (square in those days) and you'll get the picture. How do I know this I to made a Polick workbench and when I went along and made my final one (out of all that expensive wood) I reduced the dog hole allotment (as described above) and spaced them according to the reach on the tail vice I added to one end and the moxen vice on the side) reduced the total dog holes by 87% and I have never missed them ever! Now in the Swiss cheese workbenches defence you can lay out your track saw anywhere to cut wood at right angles, but what about all those other angles, and do you want all those scares on your bench surface, I don't think so, so you'll probably never do that either. so track your hole usage and make a nice video next year on you thoughts, I'll look forward to that.
I use all of the dog holes in my MFT. Keeping clamps out of the way of a router, for example, can be an interesting task without them being right where I want them. I don't want to hold the router at arm's length, either.
What he is doing is the typical “ gimmick” phase that most novice woodworkers go through. Traditional forms of woodworking benches with typically one row of dog holes and a few holdfast holes as needed, have been around for over 100 years for a reason. They work. Yes there have been improvements over the years. But they are small changes. Round dog holes and brass dogs for example. Better vise hardware. But having a bench with Swiss cheese holes is not a woodworking bench. It is inherently less than ridged.But it does make a nice assembly table if you have the room. The simple truth is he has very little skill and very little knowledge . That is ok. We were all there at one point. His actual skill is as a content creator.Not a woodworker.The real problem is he has fooled people into thinking he knows what he is doing as a woodworker.
Having worked in a wood shop for 12 years, I have some experience working with MDF. All of the holes that you have in your tabletop need to be sealed to prevent them from absorbing moisture and swelling. Hopefully, you don't bring a drink into the shop set it down on the tabletop, and spill it, sending all of that liquid into those dog holes. We used wood glue and a little bit of water to seal up the exposed/worked-on parts of the MDF to prevent that from happening.
You stole my comment, so thank you! what's the good of a work bench it you can't even put a cold beer on it? This whole video's mental, if you ask me 😂
@@grantperkins368 I agree. I would not trust mdf unless it was a very dry place, and he took the time to seal the big slots he made, but then left all of those holes and the entire bottom unsealed. Oh, and that dovetail on the side. Also unsealed, and looks like it would quickly break out, ruining the top of the table as well. I think I would rather just have a few boards on a frame or something, perhaps with spaces between them for clamps. Idk, but this project seems a bit out there. I hate to nag at him though, because it works for him, it will probably be "good enough", gave him plenty of things to talk about for his affiliate links. He has to earn money, and he is entertaining to watch. The whole "OMG I am so sick of repetitive work on this!" is worth it 😄
Another big benefit of dust collection with the router is the amount of fine dust that is sucked into your dust extractor rather than your lungs. MDF is some of the nastiest dust you can breathe in!
A lot of hardwood is even worse (toxic). Sanding is, by far, the most dangerous sawdust manufacturing operation. Dust extraction for all of these operations is critical. It's a lot easier cleaning it at the source, too.
You're dangerously wrong. Many species of hardwoods, primarily but not limited to exotics, are indeed toxic. Some are strong irritant that, some may have trouble breathing if inhaled. Few used in woodworking are drop-dead toxic but can be for some. Some really common but potentially strong irritants, like cocobolo, purple heart, and Padauk. MDF is bound by a urea-formaldehyde glue, that while it outgases , it's not toxic at low levels. It's primarily danger is the dust, not the formaldehyde. Of course one doesn't want to breathe fine dust of any sort, MDF isn't much different (plywood) than anything else, in this regard.
A quicker version for those starting out is a $40-ish half-mask respirator with P95 or P100 filters. The filters are click-in replaceable, and cost considerably less than replacement lungs. Won't protect your eyes though.
So you sealed the bottom with polyurethane to stop moisture absorption but then routed a ton of holes with probably the same amount of surface area as the bottom that can absorb moisture.
It's less about preventing the absorption of moisture at all, it's about preventing one side from absorbing moisture while the other side doesn't. If only one side absorbs moisture from the air, the entire surface will warp and bow.
Came here to say that. And no the poly he applied was for the cambered or slanted cuts he made from the bottom, not the vertical shafts which he later cut out to precision 20mm
How someone would need around 200 dog holes in a bench top is beyond me. The screws falling through is one thing, how about the dust that's constantly pouring through onto or into whatever below. I'd go nuts as everything else that fits in those holes falls through. I've been making furniture for years now and have a Roubo style bench with about 10 dog holes in it and haven't need more.
You might have noticed every hundred or thousand dollar piece of top equipment recommended in the past is now "not needed" and were onto the new set of expensive items to push, that in a year or so will be a total rip off and a waste, but the new items then to be pushed will be the rabbit's hurrah.
I think he has a case of collectors gotta-have-itis. All the Festool, all the dogholes, all the gimmicky jigs. This wasn't about functionality, it's his version of shopping for handbags.
A fundamental concept I was taught as an apprentice furniture maker in the early 1980’s, was the necessity of applying equal finishes to both sides of a wood panel. If a table top was finished with six coats of BLO, the underside MUST be finished with six coats as well. This allows for the equal transfer of ambient moisture/relative humidity. The underside doesn’t have be rubbed-out as meticulously as the top, but equal coats top and bottom are critical to keeping the panel flat. That said, if laminate is applied to the top of a workbench, it should also be applied to the bottom, if flatness is the goal. When building laminate countertops over the past 40 years, I always apply two coats of urethane to the underside to seal out moisture, even though the counters are firmly secured to the base cabinets.
this may be THEE most important comment and overall concept to take away from this whole project video , especially given the primary goal in centered around construction of a surface which is "true and square" . I have had to learn similar lessons that deal with this type of phenomenon when painting something like wooden shelves one side at a time and letting it dry in the sun, or when i had had sprayed down a piece of 1x8 with water to open up the fibers after had incrementally sanded it down with a very high grit paper before i planned on staining it and then remembered that it would not take very well to stain when the surface is sanded super smooth and packed with all the fine dust powder, and spritzing it with warm water and giving it a wipe down does a great job at opening the grain back up to allow absorption of stain , but hell I couldn't believe in just a short matter of time before it dried it had crown my perfectly plained piece of wood
Those old rules don't apply to MDF. Unless it gets wet, MDF remains very flat and there close to zero expansion/contraction with humidity. I wouldn't even seal the bottom. It's overkill, at least because of moisture. There may be another reason.
Always appreciate a good tip in the comments, it's easy to assume viewers and video creators know all there is to know about stuff like this, but there's a lot to learn and always something you didn't know!
@@kwilliams2239 As someone who has built several speaker & subwoofer enclosures out of the stuff, I have to agree with kwilliams about the old rules not really applying to MDF. Compared to any traditional board, or piece of lumber, MDF is incredibly stable dimensionally. Moisture truly is its only weakness, but even then it only effects the parts of it that got directly exposed to it. Over the years I've dealt with a number of MDF sheets that had edges damaged from moisture exposure. Even what seems like a small amount of moisture can make an edge of a MDF sheet swell by a surprising amount. Of course this was nearly always due to my laziness & not wanting to move heavy ass sheets of the stuff any more than absolutely necessary... Thankfully when this happens, most of the sheet can be salvaged by simply sawing off the damaged edge. Even after having a couple inches along an entire edge swell to nearly double the original thickness, the rest of the sheet would still be just as perfectly true and flat as the day it was made. As long as it stays out of direct contact with moisture, MDF's superpower is it's ability to totally ignore things like temperature, humidity and time, and that makes pretty unique among woodworking materials.
I was an early adopter of the Parf Guide system in order to make a MFT cabinet. This serves many purposes (router table, base for midi lathe, clamping top Etc) one tip you may find useful if you decide to make another, and one of the major benefits of the Parf system is that I drilled the whole area with the 3mm guide holes and then only completed a section of 20mm holes leaving the remainder available to drill when and if required, this to a great extent solves the problem of small part falling through the 20mm holes (most of which you will not use) 18mm plywood is a better medium for the top with or without the Formica. Great work.
Plywood isn't nearly as flat as MDF. Unless you use Baltic birch, it's about as flat as the Rockies. Baltic birch makes the MFT look cheap, in comparison. When you built your MFT cabinet, how did you mount the MFT to it? Did you leave the legs on? Can you reach under to feed clamps from the bottom? I've seen a few designs but they all made me wonder if I could get my arm, and a clamp, and come up from the bottom.
@@kwilliams2239 it’s a complicated design which has a drop in MFT top containing a router incert, there is sufficient room below (about 5inches) or it can be lifted from the front for access. It is removable to allow a midi lathe to occupy the same space and the MFT top becomes a rear safety wall whilst turning, I could go on but I won’t. It is truly a multi function unit.
There’s something to be said for not making your bench top too precious. I worked in a small commercial wood shop making Southern Pine furniture. We would make small, disposable tables for most of our assembly work. We would make various assembly jigs quickly by shooting scraps of wood, into the table with a finish nail gun and ripping them back out when we were done. When the tables got too beat up, we threw them out!
Organic vapor cartridges should be stored in a plastic bag because the activated carbon in them will continue to be used up even when sitting in a drawer.
I was under the impression that the degradation of organic vapor cartridges would put their lifespan at about 30 days after opening them regardless of storage, does keeping them in a bag actually extend that lifespan? I already tend to use them longer than their intended effectiveness since I primarily use them for less critical applications, airbrushing acrylics and washing resin prints with IPA.
@@AuntJemimaGames yes it should, they have activated carbon in them and that stuff is basically a crazy high surface area that like to stick organic molecules to it. If you put it in a bag they stop absorbing since there is no flow across them and no way for more organics to get in. I was always told they are done when you can smell the stuff you are trying to keep out.
You should NOT quit your current job to do woodworking, and DEFINITELY NOT teaching people how to do it. Also, you should check your lungs considering how much MDF cutting in such a small, closed space.
@@rickdeckard1075 oh no, by all means, please do use powertools with MDF without a mask and in a closed space. It will save us some oxygen and bad comments in the future.
It is so easy to guess which companies did accept to pay for this video and... which ones did not ! ;-) Definitively, "you've been lied for years". And this video proves this is not the end of it...
With tee track always mount it under another plywood sheet that slightly overlaps the edge of the tee track which makes the holddowns operate against the plywood and not just against screws, this is how people put tee tracks on CNC's successfully.
While I don't dispute what you said works great, assuming you don't do that, t-track should be set flush with the surface. Then when you tighten the screw it clamps the work piece to the top of the track and doesn't try to pull the screws out at all. Of course this depends on what you use to clamp as things like toe clamps will pull up regardless. But positioning things like feather boards then don't put load on the screws. Some t-track manufacturers put grooves in the sides of the track to allow you to bed it in glue, which really increases its holding power.
I think a lot of youtubers tend to not wear their masks for their videos as their face is sorta the brand i guess, but I would love to see a shift where they start wearing masks more. Woodworking is not a friend to your lungs.
@thekylenovak the funny thing is that he doesn't use many things to need a vapor mask. Yes, it's essential to wear one. But with how little he needs it, it's really more important that he uses a mask whenever he's cutting MDF and even wood due to the much higher exposure
I've never seen anyone cut MDF with that much dust in a small space. I was cringing the whole time. It's almost irresponsible to be showing this to people, waving and smiling while you are making yourself a future client of Jacob Emrani for Mesothelioma.
Agreed. If you need one, drill it. For the most part if you need a "dog", the same thing can be done by clamping a stop block to your bench and then you don't end up with all those holes in your bench top.
I noticed that some German wood workers were using laminate flooring to cover their workbenches. This gives you the 'Formica' top without all of the glue. And if you damage it, replace it. Things don't stick to it, and it looks really cool.
I really like how you did the ad AS YOU WORKED, showing both! I usually jump ahead when they pop up, but I got what I wanted while you did what you needed, well done! Definitely a unique approach! You just got yourself a new subscriber!
Now you're married, you have other responsibilities. MDF is extremely dangerous to lungs - even more than most hardwoods. Don't just use dust extraction. Use a top quality mask, even a full hood like Trend make. And, if you don't have one already, get and fit an air filter - just seen what looks like an AF hanging from your ceiling. I'm a DiYer and had about 20 years not doing any woodwork. Full time builder friends have lung diseases or have already died from lung diseases (tbf, they also smoked)
Lung safety is so important. Hands down the SINGLE best purchase I have ever made for my shop is a Trend Air Stealth P100 mask. It's less clunky and cumbersome than a full respirator and does a superb job of filtering out dust. It's also easy to clean. My rule is if I'm cutting or sanding, that mask is on, and stays on until I'm done working. Before buying that mask and setting that rule for myself, I developed a persistent cough that wouldn't go away. After about 3 months of being disciplined about using that mask, the cough was gone and hasn't come back since. No doubt that cough was from dust exposure and had it continued I would have likely developed some serious lung problems. Not enough YT woodworking channels take lung safety seriously enough.
Yeah, I’ve come to prefer dog holes myself and I learned some things, I also have some observations. Don’t throw away your Kreg self adjusting clamps, they are easy to convert to dog holes. MDF, first, if you must use it, always , always mask up. Second, I just can’t living where the humidity often exceeds 100%. I don’t care how much you seal it, it’s going to puff up. Far better here to use some good plywood and have it last a while.
Great job using calls for laying your laminate top! One tip for future reference, don't start at one end of the top. Start in the middle. Line the laminate up and pull the center call out. Run your hand down the center of the laminate so it adheres to the mdf in the middle only. This really helps if you are trying to keep the laminate square to the piece or if you have very little overhang. Starting at one end can get you out of square really quickly. Ask me how I know! Great video!
Interesting for someone who has never used laminate before, he just happened to have a very nice laminate roller! Also there is water based low VOC contact clement.
The simpler way to add all those dog holes would have been to find a local company with an CNC router table, and have them cut them all to a precise measurement. Print shops, fabrication shops, all have these types of equipment, and in my area, would have cost you the same amount as your jig.
Super impressed by your recovery fix on the bench dog depth of hole problem. I would have sat down and cried. Well done. Dude, you need to get into a nice HUGE shop. Wishing you the very best. AWSOME !
I put t-track on my crosscut sled and then bought a very expensive stop from a very popular UA-camr. $75 later, I find clamping a wooden stop block remains the better approach and cost zero. Love your videos and approach. Congrats on wedding.
@@theTobytheTitanwhich stop block did you buy? I’m considering one around the same price from a bigger you tuber and don’t want to waste me money if it’s the same as yours lol
KM. To be clear though- it’s nice. But… a scrap piece and clamp against the sled would be fine… for what I do. I can 100% see how it benefits some. I’m not trashing the product- I think you get what you pay for and its quality, precise, etc, etc.
I only use T track for fences and jigs that don't see glue etc. All they have to hold is the fence. They are easy to adjust but he's right, they aren't great for trying to clamp something down too. But that's not what they are for either.
Ok but my whole thing is this… you have every tool imaginable from gimmicks (both cheap and overpriced) to high end and very expensive power tools… How in the hell do you not have a vise? Just get a vise dude. Or make one out of an old car jack and some parts off some of the gimmicky tools that don’t really work that good.
I don't know if I can trust someone who has tens of thousands of dollars worth of festool but doesn't have a basic dust collection or even a dust mask...
For the clamps I would suggest pipe clamps they are easier to set up than clamping together clamps and with just the jaws you can have any length of clamp.
I've got dog holes and t-track in my bench. I use the dog holes for stops, and the t-track for clamping. Plus, I didn't put dog holes over the whole bench. Gives me a spot with no holes to work on small parts.
I enjoy watching you learn through making mistakes and probably many appreciate your sharing, so they don't have to learn the hard way. One thing I've learned over the years as a furniture and cabinet maker is that plastic laminate, sorry, isn't the best surface to use as a work bench top. Glue can stick to it and if it's not cleaned up before it's completely dry it can pull the laminate film right off if you don't remove it carefully, plus PL can chip and come off over time and thus is not easily reparable. I've found a better solution is to screw down a piece of 1/8 or 3/16" sheet of hardboard over the MDF, as it's less expensive and easily repairable (a quick sanding with the random orbit sander) and can easily be replaced when needed. I apply an occasional coat of linseed oil on it to help keep glue from sticking and to give it better protection. Your laminate edges will be the first to chip off and you'll be looking to replace them. I would recommend just laying the hardboard over the top of the edges leaving the hardwood edge showing which can easily be sanded when it gets dinged up. And yes as many have already mentioned you went way overkill on the number of dog holes you need. And you could have saved yourself a lot of work by simply using a "hold fast" through the dog holes, the kind you tighten and loosen with a hammer, as they will go through a thicker workbench top without having to do all the chamfering you did, plus they hold really well .
T-tracks work wonderfully if you install them properly and clean them after use. Cleaning them is actually easyer than cleaning the dog holes. You just did a very poor job with your tracks.
A new work bench was already in my future. And I was already planning on getting one of those dog hole reamers. That seems like a pretty nifty tool. And I appreciate your transparency with tools instead of just paddling whatever garbage is out there for money, so thanks. And I particularly like that you used black epoxy to make the slide grooves blend in with the rest of the top.
the Parf guide system is an excellent system to build out MFT style tables. I love the flexibility dog holes provide me . I can appreciate why people may hesitate , but they work perfectly in my workflow and the type of tools I use . I liked the tip on the chamfer bit on the underside . I want to rebuild my MFT table to be two layers thick to add that extra stability . Your solution will work perfectly thank you . I also own the wood pecker MFT jig I have never used it , the jig was an impulse purchase I thought the rougher method to bore the holes would be a perfect solution to the tear out I got using the Park guide system. I used baltic birch plywood to build my top . . I am surprised how upper able to utilize you apartment garage so effectively.
Why not use a hole saw? Then you are dealing with only dust from the saw teeth area of material as you are left with a plug of material. If you are after a more precise machined hole simply use 1 size smaller hole saw. Then go back over it with the plunge router bit and template. Reducing drag and heat on the bit and the excessive amount of dust.
@@robertapreston4200 Do dovetail tracks rip out? I wouldn't think there was much holding the clamp in, and imperfections in the wood grain might cause it to split. I've always been leery of dovetail tracks.
old venetian blinds work really well to hold the laminate away from the contact cement while allowing the laminate to stay close to the surface without bending to much
hi, nice video. i see you use some sort of dust ring on the ffestool router. i cant find it anywhere on the internet, and i really need this. i have so much dust without it in my shop. can you tell me what part it is or where to buy? thanks
My best hand plane cost me $90 and spending the time to learn how to maintain and sharpen your tools quickly not only teaches precision but it also encourages confidence in your own skills. It’s not as difficult as many people think and you don’t have to break the bank with spaceship looking planes.
thought about that when he said handplanes were super expensive to buy. Of course they are if you get those stupid Bridge City things that aren't even that great. Why would I want a plane where the sides are screwed on and made from alu, so it isn't even usable on a shooting board. Just get a normal iron plane and be happy.
@@johndoe920 I feel for the people that buy them because of dumb takes like this. I was a newbie not long ago and bought a jointmaker pro because of stumpynubs. It just collects dust after quickly realizing its a dumb gimmick for someone doing something very specific I can't even think of.
All my hand planes are old, and I never pay more than $20-30 for them. If I'm going to have to go through all the set up and sharpening even spending hundreds on one, I might as well just do the same thing to an antique from the flea market. I've got a few old wooden body planes and they are honestly the best ones I have, better than the stanley's in my experience.
@@matts.8342 the good old wooden ones are not bad, I just can't deal with the setting up. I'm too lazy to poke a tool with a little hammer for half an hour when the same thing could be done by turning a knob a few turns. But that's mostly just me not wanting to put in the practice.
"woodworker showing how to build the cheapest table top surface out of two MDF sheets glued together using a shitload of expensive as fuck tools as dead weights"
Thanks, I enjoyed watching the video, I made the same mistake with the double thickness top but I just bought 2 out of birch ply, ready made, for significantly less than the jig to make them costs!
That is by far the best and most versatile workbench I have ever seen. I don't want to talk about the ton of time that you spent on that tabletop reducing the weight, lol. But adding up all the time it is also the most expensive 😢 tabletop
so, after coating the workbench to make sure it wouldn't absorb moisture, you then router holes that aren't treated. Won't moisture then be absorbed and make the bench undulate?
When doing large/messy glue ups I put down floor protection film on the benchtop. Masking paper is cheaper, but the film is sturdier and makes clean up that much easier. I have also never had a problem with t-track pulling up from too much force. But mine are on top of 3/4" ply with full length screws.
@@miked.9364 ha, Bob Villa could have, all he ever did was a lot of talking and pretend to work, Norm did all the work, and I never saw him wear sandals either :).
Do you take him seriously in any circumstance? Remember when he converted a 20a plug on a saw he was given so it would plug into a 15a circuit? He is more of an example of what not to do. If OSHA ever takes a notion to regulate these folks channels like this one are gone.
Here's a trick I picked up from watching old timer cobblers and carpenters working with contact cement - apply the contact cement liberally to one side of the 2 surfaces to be joint. Press the other surface (laminate) on immediately, then peel it off to dry off. This saves you from having to setup protection on 2 seperate areas for applying the contact cement.
I never seen the guide being clamped to the wood being cut... Isn't it necessary to clamp the saw track guide to the board to prevent it moving, or does it stay fixed, by design, whilst cutting?
I would just use a product called 'Form Ply'...(that's what it is called in Australia)... A product designed specifically for use as concrete formwork. Manufactured in Australia from sustainably grown and locally sourced radiata pine wood veneers. The formply is created by cross-laminating the wood veneers for maximum strength and stability and is bonded together with synthetic phenolic (PF) resin to form a strong and permanent Type A bond. It is overlaid with a hard durable resin-impregnated paper, to provide a smooth concrete finish, and is reusable and durable. Formrite is less likely to expand or contract when exposed to rain and temperature changes due to the cross-laminated construction of the plywood. Note that the phenolic surface film is not “water proof” and only slows the penetration of moisture. To ensure that moisture penetration is minimised, release agent and form oils must be used. Cheers Kev
I have to wonder why there would be a reason to install hard maple edges if they are then covered with laminate. Seems that putting the laminate directly on the edge of the doubled up MDF would provide just as solid an edge since the Jami ate would prevent the MDF from chipping or gouging (at least unless you gouged all the way through the laminate first). A,so, a tip for preventing T-tracks from lifting out of the top. Instead of screws, use machine screws and a washer and nut under the bench or place threaded inserts in the material under the T-track and use machine screws into them. Plus a little blue loctite to be sure the machine screws stay tight. And you can always drill and countersink some additional holes in the bottom of the T-track if you want to reduce chance of bending between mounting points. These methods will work for anyone except the Hulk? And remember, the tracks are only aluminum so not intended to hold against super forces!
"i used formica so nothing would stick to my tabletop, including epoxy" "now i'm gonna put holes across the entire thing and ignore that epoxy will seep between the cracks!"
Thanks for the review on woodpecker's dog hole system. I keep seeing tabletops made from mdf, because it's very flat, and of course must be protected, which requires buying a bunch more laminating accessories, you will only use one, but the cost is high for single use. I just went with a sheet of midgrade plywood, with dados. Glad you were able to get experience from the build, but no for me
I went through the same journey - deciding on dog holes, wanting double thick top, struggling with inserting clamps, and then getting hole plugs. Luckily I went straight for the UJK perf guide system. But if you buy those magnetic hole plugs for all of those dog holes you are going to have one very very expensive top. I have a few sets, but thinking of 3D printing the rest.
Guy spent $500+ and a special router setup just to do what a drill and a chaulk line could do just as well. Oops. Especially after the compounding errors.
Nigh on 30 years ago I made a bench top by laminating two sheets of MDF together, just like you. I didn't have a vacuum press, so I laid the sheets on the garage floor and parked the car on top while the glue dried. Worked perfectly. Oh, and you should ALWAYS wear breathing protection when machining MDF. Lung cancer is no joke.
That Woodpeckers jig works fine if you make two passes and vacuum the dust out between passes. That makes sure there's no dust keeping the bushing from fully contacting the jig. I did this and never had to use a mallet or pliers with the registration pins.
Just a couple of thoughts: I built a general purpose worktable, also used MDF - but I used a 4' × 6' slab about twice as thick as your two sheets; a good deal shorter process. Also, while I don't use T track myself, to secure it better in its groove, just use a longer screw into thicker wood - or even better use a machine screw that goes all the way through and a good broad washer other side to spread the tension of the nut.
on my work bench i just added laminate floorbords, and put in a few screws at the ends so they stay put, the floor boards are from excess from other people, the colors doesn't even match all the way, as they have the same connection system. its super easy to clean, and extreamly durable and took absoutly no work to do. its 10 meters long except for the middle where there is a gap for tools that is flush with work table.
I like t-track but I add a screw in between all the stock screws because I find that the stock spacing allows it to lift too easily and I'm very anti-gluing in t-track.
Our old wood shop teacher wouldn't even let us into the building with sandals on, pretty sure he'd frown on Crocs too.😄 He had what would today be a totally unacceptable way of getting his point across. So kinda too late now but for the hole jig starting to get a little jiggly towards the middle, why not use some of the new dog holes to clamp it down once it was 'centered'? On a personal note, long and happy life together to you and your new wife. Cheers!
So.. you have festool track with holes, you have festool router, and you do not get festool router bit designed to make 20mm holes in one plunge cut (part no 491072)? Instead, you mess with this jig, copy rings, smaller diameter bit... Bit too obvious...
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Where can I find the dog hole reamer and dog hole plugs? Also are they available in 19mm (3/4 inch)
Lol did you heart your own comment 🤣
Hey bro you know about dog holes but never tried bench dogs? xD I mean that's why they are called dog holes. They are for dogs.
Unfortunately you have beveled the bottom edge of the holes...dogs won't work well. dogs require a thick surface.
@@AmbiguousAdventurer they'll work fine **and** be more easily inserted if there is dust or other particulate on the surface of the hole.
Early in my woodworking career, an “Old-Timer” told me, “Don’t spend more time working ON your shop than IN your shop”.
Most Underappreciated comment on UA-cam. People spend so much time prepping the perfect shop instead of just doing the projects. The shop is only gonna be as good as the user.
That's cause your old-timer didn't make any more working ON his shop and this guy does.
I'd rebut, do what you enjoy. Motivation isn't always easy to find, even with your passions. If perfecting your shop is what you enjoy, make it happen
Old timers didn't need content for videos. This is a 10min workbench build interrupted by 23 min of adds and coupon codes
@andyminch9156 I agree. A shop is just another tool to MAKE THINGS. It does not need to be pretty. I have a pile of one time use MDF jigs.
Amazed how so much is accomplished in small shop.Efficiency and inspirational.
Been wood working for 60 + years . . .my work bench is topped with MDF with few dog holes. If i need a special hole I'll drill it but most of the time it's a scrap of wood with a tort screw making the clamp. When the MDF is butchered I'll flip it, simple, low cost and easy. Tip #2 , if you have some old pull down window blinds they make a great glue up surface . . .who knew . . .not bashing just helping. Stay safe and build something
I completely agree, and I love your Tip #2. 👍
I'm not a woodworker for a long time, but I like my stupid simple workbench: an old solid door topped with one layer MDF. The MDF is connected to the "door" with few screws. I have few dog holes on one side (3x4) an so far this was always sufficient. I can easly clamp long wood pices at the egdes wich serve pretty well as fences for different tool. I don't care to cut slighty in the MDF because I'll change it once a year for less than 20 €.
@@berndreuther704 I did a similar thing but with an old office desk top someone was giving away for free. It's laminated well and doesn't fall apart like the stuff he shows in the video.
Hah, great tip on the roller curtains for a glue up surface!
Joiner for 40 plus years. Level bench with 35 mm mdf or melamine....work on till glue etc builds up.... belt sand flat...rinse and repeat......after 10 years through 18mm sheet on top. Good for another 10 years.... K.I.S.S. 🤔😂😎🇦🇺👌
"ain't gonna buy no $500 pre-made workbench". Builds one for $4000..
Hahaha...spot on!!!
With a ton of Festools and Woodpecker gear...
@@jameskling9400 Am I wrong in my comment above?
the effeminate waving-at-the-camera like a mentally disabled 5-yr-old is really quite excruciating. i miss adults acting like adults...
@JamesYale1977you say this but Ryobi exists
I found that adding the laminate is overkill. I built mine 12 years ago and I just have bare MDF, I wiped on shellac and paste wax. Nothing sticks to it. Once a year or so, I’ll do a light sanding and reapply the finish.
Same here. I used some shellac or Watco lacquer and just sand and reapply as needed. I have dog holes on my Roubo, but not my MDF topped assembly/work sufaces.
+2 on the shellac. Works great and is easy to renew.
Or hardwax oil, it's match made in heaven for mdf. Similar effect.
Valuable information, Raf. I'll leave the 30mm thick MDF for my router table plain and hard wax it instead of applying melamine, which was in my original plan. I'll try rounding over edges and rounding the corners instead of edging it, waxing all those surfaces and the underside as well.
Me too. This is WAY overkill. Plus, I don’t have an issue with drilling and screwing right into the table. I do it all the time and eventually fill in the holes with glue and sawdust.
with that many holes, you could probably box off/seal the bottom, leave a port for vacuum, and use it as a downdraft table for sanding...
My thoughts exactly! Put the woodworking equivalent of marine diesel water-separator in the table-side of the system to allow screws to drip into it and not get sucked into the vacuum itself (sort of like a plumbing p-trap will catch a wedding ring before it going further down the waste line) and this ridiculous material- and time-wasting build might just possibly be worth it and definitely more utilitarian.
This might just possibly be the dumbest UA-cam video I’ve watched in a long time.
Or a vacuum clamp. Would need a big pump for all those big ass holes.
ha, made same observation almost same post before seeing your post 👍
And/or add a blower/pucks to make an air table. The pucks aren't cheap, but looking at all of his $$$tools, small cost.
@@bratt-38128 nah just get an air hockey table and reverse the flow
Claims to be a cheapskate and wants to save money, , whilst having k’s of dollars worth of the (in my view) overpriced “green and grey” tools!😂
I disagree about the overpriced thing but yeah😂true
@JamesYale1977 wtf? I also judge him, not for his ability to own expensive tools, but for claiming to be a cheapskate when he's clearly not. There's nothing wrong with owning expensive tools if you can afford them and justify the expenses, but you can't claim to be a cheapskate when you have stacks of festool boxes, buy two different $200 dog hole jigs when you can make one out of your old workbench top, spend ~$300 on dog hole plugs, and are pedaling router bits that are $250 a piece
@@danielsnyder656agree. It’s completely disingenuous.
festool is not overpriced my guy :) they are truly the best woodworking tools out there
My current work bench is a formika countertop that I got for free from a local cabinet shop. They pulled it out of someones house, and I stopped by one day asking if they had anything.
just follow kitchen remodelers around for a few days. They take formica countertops off all the time and if you want to take it, they will give it to you for free because to them it's literally trash but it's a perfectly great piece of workbench.
If overthinking was a video:
Guy pumping more products in one video than billy mays
Yeah, it’s an infomercial filled with requests to join his patreon so “he can quit his day job”.
Billy Mays never pumped more than one product into a video
Billy Mays… I’m embarrassed to know his name 😮
33 minutes of my life I will never ever get back again...🤨 this appeared to be more of an infomercial than a DIY, what does Factor have to do with woodworking... I was waiting to see an Oxy-Clean push... so the end result, don't buy the expensive T-tracks from the T-track cartels, buy 1000 magnets instead and a bunch of glory hole attachments for the 1000 unsealed holes drilled...🤣
@@jds1906 you watched all 33 minutes? That’s like eating the whole plate and complaining it was too salty.
T-tracks are disappearing from videos in 2024 but Factor is filling the void. Got it!
I've just spent 33 min of my life watching this guy making holes in workbench
He is a lowgrade clickbaiter and scare monger. Abom 79 is another empty vessel.
@@jamesdrake2378 "low grade" based on what exactly? These benches with many holes are common in the UK -they are called MFT tops or "multi function tabletop" - you can buy them in MDF or quality birch ply, with cnc grade accuracy holes for dogs for laying out a tracksaw against, and the company that makes them even makes a knockdown easily portable site bench system - you're literally talking BS - the guy who invented the MFT system is a MILLIONAIRE NOW just from this product.
Rather churlish of you Sir.
But did you find it relaxing or stressful?
@@elmaddog1978 I do not know what floats your boat. Maybe you could try to focus on porn or watching paint dry.
Ok, but now you have fallen into and perpetuated another you tube myth, you don't need all those dog holes. Juse a couple of rows along the frount, and one side, with a row down the center and your done. Dont beleive my, just track how many you actually use over the course of a year and you'll see. Or you could take a look at a traditional cabinet makes bench and see where they placed their dog holes (square in those days) and you'll get the picture. How do I know this I to made a Polick workbench and when I went along and made my final one (out of all that expensive wood) I reduced the dog hole allotment (as described above) and spaced them according to the reach on the tail vice I added to one end and the moxen vice on the side) reduced the total dog holes by 87% and I have never missed them ever! Now in the Swiss cheese workbenches defence you can lay out your track saw anywhere to cut wood at right angles, but what about all those other angles, and do you want all those scares on your bench surface, I don't think so, so you'll probably never do that either. so track your hole usage and make a nice video next year on you thoughts, I'll look forward to that.
100% agree. Never understood the Swiss cheese bench. It’s not as bad as t-track, but it’s pretty terrible in practice.
I use all of the dog holes in my MFT. Keeping clamps out of the way of a router, for example, can be an interesting task without them being right where I want them. I don't want to hold the router at arm's length, either.
I was told not to breathe in MDF dust as it’s hazardous. You’re not even wearing a dust mask.
What he is doing is the typical “ gimmick” phase that most novice woodworkers go through. Traditional forms of woodworking benches with typically one row of dog holes and a few holdfast holes as needed, have been around for over 100 years for a reason. They work. Yes there have been improvements over the years. But they are small changes. Round dog holes and brass dogs for example. Better vise hardware. But having a bench with Swiss cheese holes is not a woodworking bench. It is inherently less than ridged.But it does make a nice assembly table if you have the room. The simple truth is he has very little skill and very little knowledge . That is ok. We were all there at one point. His actual skill is as a content creator.Not a woodworker.The real problem is he has fooled people into thinking he knows what he is doing as a woodworker.
The evolution of tools used on this show is getting out of my pay grade. You are the 'you tuber' that said you need something.
Having worked in a wood shop for 12 years, I have some experience working with MDF. All of the holes that you have in your tabletop need to be sealed to prevent them from absorbing moisture and swelling. Hopefully, you don't bring a drink into the shop set it down on the tabletop, and spill it, sending all of that liquid into those dog holes. We used wood glue and a little bit of water to seal up the exposed/worked-on parts of the MDF to prevent that from happening.
Good note about sealing the holes, thanks!
You stole my comment, so thank you! what's the good of a work bench it you can't even put a cold beer on it? This whole video's mental, if you ask me 😂
@@grantperkins368 I agree. I would not trust mdf unless it was a very dry place, and he took the time to seal the big slots he made, but then left all of those holes and the entire bottom unsealed. Oh, and that dovetail on the side. Also unsealed, and looks like it would quickly break out, ruining the top of the table as well. I think I would rather just have a few boards on a frame or something, perhaps with spaces between them for clamps. Idk, but this project seems a bit out there. I hate to nag at him though, because it works for him, it will probably be "good enough", gave him plenty of things to talk about for his affiliate links. He has to earn money, and he is entertaining to watch. The whole "OMG I am so sick of repetitive work on this!" is worth it 😄
Another big benefit of dust collection with the router is the amount of fine dust that is sucked into your dust extractor rather than your lungs. MDF is some of the nastiest dust you can breathe in!
A lot of hardwood is even worse (toxic). Sanding is, by far, the most dangerous sawdust manufacturing operation. Dust extraction for all of these operations is critical. It's a lot easier cleaning it at the source, too.
May I suggest changing "find us" to "fine dust". :)
@@kwilliams2239 "A lot of hardwood is even worse (toxic)"
Hardwood is rarely toxic - MDF is.
You're dangerously wrong. Many species of hardwoods, primarily but not limited to exotics, are indeed toxic. Some are strong irritant that, some may have trouble breathing if inhaled. Few used in woodworking are drop-dead toxic but can be for some. Some really common but potentially strong irritants, like cocobolo, purple heart, and Padauk.
MDF is bound by a urea-formaldehyde glue, that while it outgases , it's not toxic at low levels. It's primarily danger is the dust, not the formaldehyde.
Of course one doesn't want to breathe fine dust of any sort, MDF isn't much different (plywood) than anything else, in this regard.
A quicker version for those starting out is a $40-ish half-mask respirator with P95 or P100 filters. The filters are click-in replaceable, and cost considerably less than replacement lungs. Won't protect your eyes though.
So you sealed the bottom with polyurethane to stop moisture absorption but then routed a ton of holes with probably the same amount of surface area as the bottom that can absorb moisture.
It's less about preventing the absorption of moisture at all, it's about preventing one side from absorbing moisture while the other side doesn't. If only one side absorbs moisture from the air, the entire surface will warp and bow.
He said in the video he applied more off camera: 29:04
lol, it was all about selling magnets and dog hole attachments
Came here to say that. And no the poly he applied was for the cambered or slanted cuts he made from the bottom, not the vertical shafts which he later cut out to precision 20mm
@@jds1906 Interesting conclusion in that he never even mentioned magnets.
How someone would need around 200 dog holes in a bench top is beyond me. The screws falling through is one thing, how about the dust that's constantly pouring through onto or into whatever below. I'd go nuts as everything else that fits in those holes falls through. I've been making furniture for years now and have a Roubo style bench with about 10 dog holes in it and haven't need more.
You might have noticed every hundred or thousand dollar piece of top equipment recommended in the past is now "not needed" and were onto the new set of expensive items to push, that in a year or so will be a total rip off and a waste, but the new items then to be pushed will be the rabbit's hurrah.
I think he has a case of collectors gotta-have-itis. All the Festool, all the dogholes, all the gimmicky jigs. This wasn't about functionality, it's his version of shopping for handbags.
Good lord...I did exhibit/trade show work for 7 years of my career...I can't believe my lungs still work after spraying all that red contact...😂😂😂
@@mrniusi11😂 👏
A fundamental concept I was taught as an apprentice furniture maker in the early 1980’s, was the necessity of applying equal finishes to both sides of a wood panel. If a table top was finished with six coats of BLO, the underside MUST be finished with six coats as well. This allows for the equal transfer of ambient moisture/relative humidity. The underside doesn’t have be rubbed-out as meticulously as the top, but equal coats top and bottom are critical to keeping the panel flat. That said, if laminate is applied to the top of a workbench, it should also be applied to the bottom, if flatness is the goal. When building laminate countertops over the past 40 years, I always apply two coats of urethane to the underside to seal out moisture, even though the counters are firmly secured to the base cabinets.
SOOOO TRUE . . .. that's why IKEA furniture is laminated on both sides . . .now you know, NOT bashing just teaching
this may be THEE most important comment and overall concept to take away from this whole project video , especially given the primary goal in centered around construction of a surface which is "true and square" . I have had to learn similar lessons that deal with this type of phenomenon when painting something like wooden shelves one side at a time and letting it dry in the sun, or when i had had sprayed down a piece of 1x8 with water to open up the fibers after had incrementally sanded it down with a very high grit paper before i planned on staining it and then remembered that it would not take very well to stain when the surface is sanded super smooth and packed with all the fine dust powder, and spritzing it with warm water and giving it a wipe down does a great job at opening the grain back up to allow absorption of stain , but hell I couldn't believe in just a short matter of time before it dried it had crown my perfectly plained piece of wood
Those old rules don't apply to MDF. Unless it gets wet, MDF remains very flat and there close to zero expansion/contraction with humidity. I wouldn't even seal the bottom. It's overkill, at least because of moisture. There may be another reason.
Always appreciate a good tip in the comments, it's easy to assume viewers and video creators know all there is to know about stuff like this, but there's a lot to learn and always something you didn't know!
@@kwilliams2239 As someone who has built several speaker & subwoofer enclosures out of the stuff, I have to agree with kwilliams about the old rules not really applying to MDF. Compared to any traditional board, or piece of lumber, MDF is incredibly stable dimensionally. Moisture truly is its only weakness, but even then it only effects the parts of it that got directly exposed to it. Over the years I've dealt with a number of MDF sheets that had edges damaged from moisture exposure. Even what seems like a small amount of moisture can make an edge of a MDF sheet swell by a surprising amount. Of course this was nearly always due to my laziness & not wanting to move heavy ass sheets of the stuff any more than absolutely necessary... Thankfully when this happens, most of the sheet can be salvaged by simply sawing off the damaged edge. Even after having a couple inches along an entire edge swell to nearly double the original thickness, the rest of the sheet would still be just as perfectly true and flat as the day it was made. As long as it stays out of direct contact with moisture, MDF's superpower is it's ability to totally ignore things like temperature, humidity and time, and that makes pretty unique among woodworking materials.
I was an early adopter of the Parf Guide system in order to make a MFT cabinet. This serves many purposes (router table, base for midi lathe, clamping top Etc) one tip you may find useful if you decide to make another, and one of the major benefits of the Parf system is that I drilled the whole area with the 3mm guide holes and then only completed a section of 20mm holes leaving the remainder available to drill when and if required, this to a great extent solves the problem of small part falling through the 20mm holes (most of which you will not use) 18mm plywood is a better medium for the top with or without the Formica. Great work.
Plywood isn't nearly as flat as MDF. Unless you use Baltic birch, it's about as flat as the Rockies. Baltic birch makes the MFT look cheap, in comparison.
When you built your MFT cabinet, how did you mount the MFT to it? Did you leave the legs on? Can you reach under to feed clamps from the bottom? I've seen a few designs but they all made me wonder if I could get my arm, and a clamp, and come up from the bottom.
@@kwilliams2239 it’s a complicated design which has a drop in MFT top containing a router incert, there is sufficient room below (about 5inches) or it can be lifted from the front for access. It is removable to allow a midi lathe to occupy the same space and the MFT top becomes a rear safety wall whilst turning, I could go on but I won’t. It is truly a multi function unit.
Good tip on the Parf system, I’ll look it up!
Make your own. its so easy, 3 4 5 Triangle. make some drill jigs done.
There’s something to be said for not making your bench top too precious. I worked in a small commercial wood shop making Southern Pine furniture. We would make small, disposable tables for most of our assembly work. We would make various assembly jigs quickly by shooting scraps of wood, into the table with a finish nail gun and ripping them back out when we were done. When the tables got too beat up, we threw them out!
Organic vapor cartridges should be stored in a plastic bag because the activated carbon in them will continue to be used up even when sitting in a drawer.
I finally bought a plastic container that’s big enough to hold the 3M mask and the large cartridges. It’s tough enough not to get torn in my shop.
I was under the impression that the degradation of organic vapor cartridges would put their lifespan at about 30 days after opening them regardless of storage, does keeping them in a bag actually extend that lifespan?
I already tend to use them longer than their intended effectiveness since I primarily use them for less critical applications, airbrushing acrylics and washing resin prints with IPA.
@@AuntJemimaGames I hope not! If so, it’s in the 3M fine print.
@@AuntJemimaGames yes it should, they have activated carbon in them and that stuff is basically a crazy high surface area that like to stick organic molecules to it. If you put it in a bag they stop absorbing since there is no flow across them and no way for more organics to get in. I was always told they are done when you can smell the stuff you are trying to keep out.
P-95 or P100 dust filters are a good choice for sanding.
Dig this hole. Now fill this hole. You're in the Army, now.
You should NOT quit your current job to do woodworking, and DEFINITELY NOT teaching people how to do it. Also, you should check your lungs considering how much MDF cutting in such a small, closed space.
Yes, please throw a mask on ya face bro...stay alive!!
At least open that garage door if you aren't going to wear a mask. Do you also think that 10 toes are just too many? Crocs???
sm rando saying "it wont work bro" makes me want to support him even more
@@rickdeckard1075 oh no, by all means, please do use powertools with MDF without a mask and in a closed space. It will save us some oxygen and bad comments in the future.
@@alvarodiaz2221 interesting to see 99% comment criticism vs the usual 99% adulation, he must not be *ahem* "in the club" like you, "alvaro"
It is so easy to guess which companies did accept to pay for this video and... which ones did not ! ;-)
Definitively, "you've been lied for years". And this video proves this is not the end of it...
Making holes in your table to sell a product to cover them up is ingenious...
That's hilarious! Get 'em coming and going.
- "Making holes in your table to sell a product to cover them up is ingenious..."
The purpose of those holes is actually explained on the video...
@adoatero5129 it's a strawman to get lolz from other smoothbrains.
Ignore the putz.
@adoatero5129 It's a deliberate oversimplification to get lolz from other smoothbrains. Just ignore the putz.
Its always good for my woodworking to see somebody completely miss the point of these different tools
How do all these UA-camrs afford complete Festool lines of tools adapters and accessories?
With tee track always mount it under another plywood sheet that slightly overlaps the edge of the tee track which makes the holddowns operate against the plywood and not just against screws, this is how people put tee tracks on CNC's successfully.
what a brag 'spencley design co."
While I don't dispute what you said works great, assuming you don't do that, t-track should be set flush with the surface. Then when you tighten the screw it clamps the work piece to the top of the track and doesn't try to pull the screws out at all.
Of course this depends on what you use to clamp as things like toe clamps will pull up regardless. But positioning things like feather boards then don't put load on the screws.
Some t-track manufacturers put grooves in the sides of the track to allow you to bed it in glue, which really increases its holding power.
made me short of breath watching you cut that mdf...look after your lungs mate
I think a lot of youtubers tend to not wear their masks for their videos as their face is sorta the brand i guess, but I would love to see a shift where they start wearing masks more. Woodworking is not a friend to your lungs.
@@thekylenovak they film enough that going maskless is extremely irresponsible for things like MDF
@thekylenovak the funny thing is that he doesn't use many things to need a vapor mask. Yes, it's essential to wear one. But with how little he needs it, it's really more important that he uses a mask whenever he's cutting MDF and even wood due to the much higher exposure
I've never seen anyone cut MDF with that much dust in a small space. I was cringing the whole time. It's almost irresponsible to be showing this to people, waving and smiling while you are making yourself a future client of Jacob Emrani for Mesothelioma.
Yes, please take care of yourself, MDF is quite toxic my friend.
You cured me of ever wanting dog holes in a workbench!😂😂😂
There's no way he is ever going to need all those holes.
@@Hellwilliam1 but this way he can sell it to someone else after he accidentally cuts his hand off with his fancy festool circular saw.
😢😢😢
@@Hellwilliam1 i guess it would be better to drill out holes as you need them?
Agreed. If you need one, drill it. For the most part if you need a "dog", the same thing can be done by clamping a stop block to your bench and then you don't end up with all those holes in your bench top.
I noticed that some German wood workers were using laminate flooring to cover their workbenches. This gives you the 'Formica' top without all of the glue. And if you damage it, replace it. Things don't stick to it, and it looks really cool.
Friends and wife say your cheap? Yet, it seems you have bought the entire Festool line of tools? 🤔
Drinking game: Shot every time he says "super" or "absolutely". I'm guessing this kills at least 3 people.
Yeah, the relentless emphasized superlatives are exhausting.
@@Graham_Wideman Absolutely super exhausting.
I really like how you did the ad AS YOU WORKED, showing both! I usually jump ahead when they pop up, but I got what I wanted while you did what you needed, well done! Definitely a unique approach! You just got yourself a new subscriber!
Now you're married, you have other responsibilities. MDF is extremely dangerous to lungs - even more than most hardwoods. Don't just use dust extraction. Use a top quality mask, even a full hood like Trend make. And, if you don't have one already, get and fit an air filter - just seen what looks like an AF hanging from your ceiling. I'm a DiYer and had about 20 years not doing any woodwork. Full time builder friends have lung diseases or have already died from lung diseases (tbf, they also smoked)
Lung safety is so important. Hands down the SINGLE best purchase I have ever made for my shop is a Trend Air Stealth P100 mask. It's less clunky and cumbersome than a full respirator and does a superb job of filtering out dust. It's also easy to clean.
My rule is if I'm cutting or sanding, that mask is on, and stays on until I'm done working. Before buying that mask and setting that rule for myself, I developed a persistent cough that wouldn't go away. After about 3 months of being disciplined about using that mask, the cough was gone and hasn't come back since. No doubt that cough was from dust exposure and had it continued I would have likely developed some serious lung problems.
Not enough YT woodworking channels take lung safety seriously enough.
Better yet - don't use MDF
Yeah, I’ve come to prefer dog holes myself and I learned some things, I also have some observations. Don’t throw away your Kreg self adjusting clamps, they are easy to convert to dog holes.
MDF, first, if you must use it, always , always mask up. Second, I just can’t living where the humidity often exceeds 100%. I don’t care how much you seal it, it’s going to puff up. Far better here to use some good plywood and have it last a while.
@@Markevans36301 100000% Baltic Birch is plenty stable enough for this project. More expensive but not by that much.
Great job using calls for laying your laminate top! One tip for future reference, don't start at one end of the top. Start in the middle. Line the laminate up and pull the center call out. Run your hand down the center of the laminate so it adheres to the mdf in the middle only. This really helps if you are trying to keep the laminate square to the piece or if you have very little overhang. Starting at one end can get you out of square really quickly. Ask me how I know!
Great video!
Interesting for someone who has never used laminate before, he just happened to have a very nice laminate roller! Also there is water based low VOC contact clement.
The simpler way to add all those dog holes would have been to find a local company with an CNC router table, and have them cut them all to a precise measurement. Print shops, fabrication shops, all have these types of equipment, and in my area, would have cost you the same amount as your jig.
Super impressed by your recovery fix on the bench dog depth of hole problem. I would have sat down and cried. Well done. Dude, you need to get into a nice HUGE shop. Wishing you the very best. AWSOME !
I put t-track on my crosscut sled and then bought a very expensive stop from a very popular UA-camr. $75 later, I find clamping a wooden stop block remains the better approach and cost zero. Love your videos and approach. Congrats on wedding.
100% did the same thing and 100% agree. The kick in the nuts is… I knew it before dropping all that money but did it anyway.
@@theTobytheTitanwhich stop block did you buy? I’m considering one around the same price from a bigger you tuber and don’t want to waste me money if it’s the same as yours lol
KM. To be clear though- it’s nice. But… a scrap piece and clamp against the sled would be fine… for what I do.
I can 100% see how it benefits some.
I’m not trashing the product- I think you get what you pay for and its quality, precise, etc, etc.
@@terencemerritt0
I only use T track for fences and jigs that don't see glue etc. All they have to hold is the fence. They are easy to adjust but he's right, they aren't great for trying to clamp something down too. But that's not what they are for either.
Ok but my whole thing is this… you have every tool imaginable from gimmicks (both cheap and overpriced) to high end and very expensive power tools… How in the hell do you not have a vise? Just get a vise dude. Or make one out of an old car jack and some parts off some of the gimmicky tools that don’t really work that good.
This and a respirator. Holy moly. Breathing in all that mdf. Yoikes!
complains of tracks pulling out. Uses MDF as replacment! Flawless
Installs and uses t-track incorrectly, concludes t-track sucks.
😭😭😭
nah its junk
I don't know if I can trust someone who has tens of thousands of dollars worth of festool but doesn't have a basic dust collection or even a dust mask...
He plugs the Festool into dust collection 3:39, don’t see why he uses the Milwaukee at 4:19!
… the Festool leaks a good deal of dust, though! 6:50
deek. . . how big is your stick? For sure it's a lot smaller then your ego to bash. just saying
@@dannyoktim9628 and what are you saying using ESL?
@@dannyoktim9628 My Schtick is pretty big! just saying.....
For the clamps I would suggest pipe clamps they are easier to set up than clamping together clamps and with just the jaws you can have any length of clamp.
Are the Festools yours or they sponsored? Either way, is it worth the extra money to buy Festools?
@@rocketman13f51 I do not understand what you are asking
Today I Learned: Design is an Iterative Process, where the initial design to solve a problem looks nothing like the final product.
I've got dog holes and t-track in my bench. I use the dog holes for stops, and the t-track for clamping. Plus, I didn't put dog holes over the whole bench. Gives me a spot with no holes to work on small parts.
I'd die of alcohol poisoning if I took a shot every time he uses the word "super"
whereas if he used "underrated" youd happily chug straight grain alcohol
I enjoy watching you learn through making mistakes and probably many appreciate your sharing, so they don't have to learn the hard way. One thing I've learned over the years as a furniture and cabinet maker is that plastic laminate, sorry, isn't the best surface to use as a work bench top. Glue can stick to it and if it's not cleaned up before it's completely dry it can pull the laminate film right off if you don't remove it carefully, plus PL can chip and come off over time and thus is not easily reparable. I've found a better solution is to screw down a piece of 1/8 or 3/16" sheet of hardboard over the MDF, as it's less expensive and easily repairable (a quick sanding with the random orbit sander) and can easily be replaced when needed. I apply an occasional coat of linseed oil on it to help keep glue from sticking and to give it better protection. Your laminate edges will be the first to chip off and you'll be looking to replace them. I would recommend just laying the hardboard over the top of the edges leaving the hardwood edge showing which can easily be sanded when it gets dinged up. And yes as many have already mentioned you went way overkill on the number of dog holes you need. And you could have saved yourself a lot of work by simply using a "hold fast" through the dog holes, the kind you tighten and loosen with a hammer, as they will go through a thicker workbench top without having to do all the chamfering you did, plus they hold really well .
T-tracks work wonderfully if you install them properly and clean them after use. Cleaning them is actually easyer than cleaning the dog holes. You just did a very poor job with your tracks.
A new work bench was already in my future. And I was already planning on getting one of those dog hole reamers. That seems like a pretty nifty tool. And I appreciate your transparency with tools instead of just paddling whatever garbage is out there for money, so thanks. And I particularly like that you used black epoxy to make the slide grooves blend in with the rest of the top.
the Parf guide system is an excellent system to build out MFT style tables. I love the flexibility dog holes provide me . I can appreciate why people may hesitate , but they work perfectly in my workflow and the type of tools I use . I liked the tip on the chamfer bit on the underside . I want to rebuild my MFT table to be two layers thick to add that extra stability . Your solution will work perfectly thank you . I also own the wood pecker MFT jig I have never used it , the jig was an impulse purchase I thought the rougher method to bore the holes would be a perfect solution to the tear out I got using the Park guide system. I used baltic birch plywood to build my top . . I am surprised how upper able to utilize you apartment garage so effectively.
Why not use a hole saw? Then you are dealing with only dust from the saw teeth area of material as you are left with a plug of material. If you are after a more precise machined hole simply use 1 size smaller hole saw. Then go back over it with the plunge router bit and template. Reducing drag and heat on the bit and the excessive amount of dust.
What about the exposed MDF in every hole? No moisture problems there?
And the T track on the side will quickly destroy the wood. Maybe he should coat it with that epoxy paint
@@robertapreston4200 Do dovetail tracks rip out? I wouldn't think there was much holding the clamp in, and imperfections in the wood grain might cause it to split. I've always been leery of dovetail tracks.
old venetian blinds work really well to hold the laminate away from the contact cement while allowing the laminate to stay close to the surface without bending to much
Your organic filters with the active charcoal need to be stored in an airtight container. The charcoal has a limited exposure to air life.
hi, nice video. i see you use some sort of dust ring on the ffestool router. i cant find it anywhere on the internet, and i really need this. i have so much dust without it in my shop. can you tell me what part it is or where to buy?
thanks
My best hand plane cost me $90 and spending the time to learn how to maintain and sharpen your tools quickly not only teaches precision but it also encourages confidence in your own skills. It’s not as difficult as many people think and you don’t have to break the bank with spaceship looking planes.
They really are ugly to me, and then their price is even more ugly.
thought about that when he said handplanes were super expensive to buy. Of course they are if you get those stupid Bridge City things that aren't even that great. Why would I want a plane where the sides are screwed on and made from alu, so it isn't even usable on a shooting board. Just get a normal iron plane and be happy.
@@johndoe920 I feel for the people that buy them because of dumb takes like this. I was a newbie not long ago and bought a jointmaker pro because of stumpynubs. It just collects dust after quickly realizing its a dumb gimmick for someone doing something very specific I can't even think of.
All my hand planes are old, and I never pay more than $20-30 for them. If I'm going to have to go through all the set up and sharpening even spending hundreds on one, I might as well just do the same thing to an antique from the flea market. I've got a few old wooden body planes and they are honestly the best ones I have, better than the stanley's in my experience.
@@matts.8342 the good old wooden ones are not bad, I just can't deal with the setting up. I'm too lazy to poke a tool with a little hammer for half an hour when the same thing could be done by turning a knob a few turns. But that's mostly just me not wanting to put in the practice.
Thank you for sharing your experiences with your tools. Ill be interested to hear if you use the holes in the middle very often.
"woodworker showing how to build the cheapest table top surface out of two MDF sheets glued together using a shitload of expensive as fuck tools as dead weights"
Thanks, I enjoyed watching the video, I made the same mistake with the double thickness top but I just bought 2 out of birch ply, ready made, for significantly less than the jig to make them costs!
This is the best video of what not to do. Ingenius! Let me spend $10,000 for a $400 beginner table!
3:59
That is by far the best and most versatile workbench I have ever seen. I don't want to talk about the ton of time that you spent on that tabletop reducing the weight, lol. But adding up all the time it is also the most expensive 😢 tabletop
Guy complains about “expensive to build” custom workbench. Builds just that using some of the most $$$ tools on the planet
It's not like those Festool items are one-and-done. He'll get decades of use out of them.
so, after coating the workbench to make sure it wouldn't absorb moisture, you then router holes that aren't treated. Won't moisture then be absorbed and make the bench undulate?
1. Mill 184 holes
2. Chamfer 184 holes
3. Ream 184 holes
4. Plug 184 holes
I wonder how many of these holes that will ever be used.
most important thing he forgot was to seal 184 holes :)
When doing large/messy glue ups I put down floor protection film on the benchtop. Masking paper is cheaper, but the film is sturdier and makes clean up that much easier. I have also never had a problem with t-track pulling up from too much force. But mine are on top of 3/4" ply with full length screws.
This dude has been living his own lie for years.
Which is.....
fascinating how many critical comments, did he not pay you guys for fake likes and + comments?
I have no doubt you will succeed on youtube big time as I spent half an hour watching you build a work bench that I would never build myself lol.
Am I supposed to take a woodworker seriously when he is wearing sandals?
The most talked about carpenter in history wore sandals.
@@TheStonedbanana I never saw Bob Villa wearing sandals.
@@miked.9364 😂
@@miked.9364 ha, Bob Villa could have, all he ever did was a lot of talking and pretend to work, Norm did all the work, and I never saw him wear sandals either :).
Do you take him seriously in any circumstance? Remember when he converted a 20a plug on a saw he was given so it would plug into a 15a circuit? He is more of an example of what not to do. If OSHA ever takes a notion to regulate these folks channels like this one are gone.
Here's a trick I picked up from watching old timer cobblers and carpenters working with contact cement - apply the contact cement liberally to one side of the 2 surfaces to be joint. Press the other surface (laminate) on immediately, then peel it off to dry off. This saves you from having to setup protection on 2 seperate areas for applying the contact cement.
You should definitely wear a dust mask.I mean really
Yeh mdf dust is nasty stuff
@@brett567 Atomised wood fibres and glue particles.
I never seen the guide being clamped to the wood being cut... Isn't it necessary to clamp the saw track guide to the board to prevent it moving, or does it stay fixed, by design, whilst cutting?
I can’t believe I wasted 33 minutes of my life watching this
Just wait until he realizes he'll only ever use about 5 or 6 of those holes...
By the time I buy all the special tools shown in this video, I could have bought a nice bench! 🤪
I would just use a product called 'Form Ply'...(that's what it is called in Australia)...
A product designed specifically for use as concrete formwork. Manufactured in Australia from sustainably grown and locally sourced radiata pine wood veneers. The formply is created by cross-laminating the wood veneers for maximum strength and stability and is bonded together with synthetic phenolic (PF) resin to form a strong and permanent Type A bond. It is overlaid with a hard durable resin-impregnated paper, to provide a smooth concrete finish, and is reusable and durable. Formrite is less likely to expand or contract when exposed to rain and temperature changes due to the cross-laminated construction of the plywood. Note that the phenolic surface film is not “water proof” and only slows the penetration of moisture. To ensure that moisture penetration is minimised, release agent and form oils must be used.
Cheers Kev
I have to wonder why there would be a reason to install hard maple edges if they are then covered with laminate. Seems that putting the laminate directly on the edge of the doubled up MDF would provide just as solid an edge since the Jami ate would prevent the MDF from chipping or gouging (at least unless you gouged all the way through the laminate first).
A,so, a tip for preventing T-tracks from lifting out of the top. Instead of screws, use machine screws and a washer and nut under the bench or place threaded inserts in the material under the T-track and use machine screws into them. Plus a little blue loctite to be sure the machine screws stay tight. And you can always drill and countersink some additional holes in the bottom of the T-track if you want to reduce chance of bending between mounting points. These methods will work for anyone except the Hulk? And remember, the tracks are only aluminum so not intended to hold against super forces!
I suddenly don’t feel like such a schmuck. My projects almost ALWAYS wind up down the rabbit hole. Thx for being so transparent.
"i used formica so nothing would stick to my tabletop, including epoxy"
"now i'm gonna put holes across the entire thing and ignore that epoxy will seep between the cracks!"
For which you use the reamer that he used to make the holes the correct size.
But he has a reamer....
Thanks for the review on woodpecker's dog hole system. I keep seeing tabletops made from mdf, because it's very flat, and of course must be protected, which requires buying a bunch more laminating accessories, you will only use one, but the cost is high for single use. I just went with a sheet of midgrade plywood, with dados. Glad you were able to get experience from the build, but no for me
One foot ladder routing should be a woodworking event in the Olympics.
I went through the same journey - deciding on dog holes, wanting double thick top, struggling with inserting clamps, and then getting hole plugs. Luckily I went straight for the UJK perf guide system. But if you buy those magnetic hole plugs for all of those dog holes you are going to have one very very expensive top. I have a few sets, but thinking of 3D printing the rest.
Guy spent $500+ and a special router setup just to do what a drill and a chaulk line could do just as well. Oops. Especially after the compounding errors.
No, chalkline wouldn't be near accurate enough. The Parf Guide system is accurate to less than .1 mm.
Nigh on 30 years ago I made a bench top by laminating two sheets of MDF together, just like you. I didn't have a vacuum press, so I laid the sheets on the garage floor and parked the car on top while the glue dried. Worked perfectly. Oh, and you should ALWAYS wear breathing protection when machining MDF. Lung cancer is no joke.
What if you put the holes at X, 2X, 4X, 8X instead of every X. You should be able to get most combinations of distances without so many holes.
That Woodpeckers jig works fine if you make two passes and vacuum the dust out between passes. That makes sure there's no dust keeping the bushing from fully contacting the jig. I did this and never had to use a mallet or pliers with the registration pins.
I so tired of amateurs making how to videos. So pleased to see the comments echoing the same thing.
Just a couple of thoughts:
I built a general purpose worktable, also used MDF - but I used a 4' × 6' slab about twice as thick as your two sheets; a good deal shorter process.
Also, while I don't use T track myself, to secure it better in its groove, just use a longer screw into thicker wood - or even better use a machine screw that goes all the way through and a good broad washer other side to spread the tension of the nut.
An 8*4 mdf does NOT weigh anywhere near 100 lbs. More like 77 - (37.5 kg in real money)!
You can buy black pip and pipe clamps making clamps any length you need. I have 2 14' pipe clamps that cost me $40 for both
A guy that is cost conscience but has the coin for many Festools.
No...they were given to him...just like everything else he puts on camera with the logo always visible. He is a whore of the highest level.
because hes actually designed and sold his work as opposed to sm rando who has done nothing
Maybe that’s why he’s got the festools?
on my work bench i just added laminate floorbords, and put in a few screws at the ends so they stay put, the floor boards are from excess from other people, the colors doesn't even match all the way, as they have the same connection system. its super easy to clean, and extreamly durable and took absoutly no work to do. its 10 meters long except for the middle where there is a gap for tools that is flush with work table.
Dude is so desperate to quit his day job he had like 30 ads in this video
Was it 30? I lost count.
I got sponsor block I didn't notice any
I like t-track but I add a screw in between all the stock screws because I find that the stock spacing allows it to lift too easily and I'm very anti-gluing in t-track.
Our old wood shop teacher wouldn't even let us into the building with sandals on, pretty sure he'd frown on Crocs too.😄 He had what would today be a totally unacceptable way of getting his point across.
So kinda too late now but for the hole jig starting to get a little jiggly towards the middle, why not use some of the new dog holes to clamp it down once it was 'centered'?
On a personal note, long and happy life together to you and your new wife. Cheers!
Really love that your use of the laminate teaches newcomers the importance of factoring in sacrificial surfaces that can be cut down and resurfaced.
Glue a magnet to every dog hole clamp you own... trust me.
is the magnet there to lift out the doghole cap and to have a place to put said cap while a clamp is in place?
@@rampanttricky17 you bet. By your response, you've already done this (perhaps in a later video I haven't seen).
Just wondering. Do you start with detail then clear on hardwood? Would you'd go 1/16 to 1/8 to 1/4 ?
So.. you have festool track with holes, you have festool router, and you do not get festool router bit designed to make 20mm holes in one plunge cut (part no 491072)?
Instead, you mess with this jig, copy rings, smaller diameter bit...
Bit too obvious...